NationStates Jolt Archive

I will list down several valid reasons for the dislike that America engenders in the world.Please note that I am personally against certain American values,I just positively hate some of your government policies and your politics.Freedom,democracy and human rights are all very good and well,just don't impose them on the rest of the world.What works in America doesn't work in the rest of the world.America as a nation is very free,but freedom has to be tempered by discipline and responsibility,something I feel that segments of its population and its current administration lacke.
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The USA has helped the world, but just as often, they have helped themselves - to the resources and well-being of the world. US foreign policy is openly based on national "self-interest'', not international cooperation. The only kind of cooperation the USA understands is where other countries "cooperate'' with the USA - i.e. other countries must do what the USA tells them to do or else....the invasion of Iraq which was done under false pretences,though it has served a great good by removing a tyrant from power.


Having good propaganda techniques as the US does is not in itself a bad thing, but it does mean that US citizens can't see the world clearly from within their own environment,often relying on Fox News and other biased sources that are pro-American such as CNN.The USA is in many ways an excellent country. The problem is just that this is so often at cost to the rest of the world,both in wealth and lives

About 3000 innocent civilians were killed on 2001-9-11. This is a tiny token compared the suffering inflicted on the world by the USA. (Perhaps I should also mention that the murder rate in the USA is about 80 per million per annum, which is about 20,000 per annum for the whole country. So the deaths on 2001-9-11 were less than a typical 2 months of murders in the USA,a comparatively light loss.

The United States tends to see most world issues with one eye closed. US citizens see only what is good about themselves and their client states and what is bad in others. But they should open the other eye too - and see the evil in themselves and the good in others.An example of this would be the Kyoto Protocols,which Bush refused to sign due to supposed constraints it would place on the American economy and industrial interests,not keeping in mind the long view,where continued human survival and the health of the Earths ecology at stake.


In the USA, it is said that "the terrorists hate the democracy and freedom of the USA and the West''. This is complete nonsense. Anyone with more than 5 neurons working in their brain knows that this is bull. People worldwide admire the good things of the USA and hate the bad things. US citizens must do some homework to find out what crimes, barbarism and atrocities are committed in their name. It's the same old story - the people are good, but the government is bad. The difference in a democracy is that the people choose their government (more or less). So in a democracy, the people are responsible for the crimes and evil of their government. People who trumpet the virtues of their democracy should remember that they are responsible for the crimes of their government. There are so many good people in the USA, isn't it a shame they're not running the country.

The USA has built up a deep reservoir of hatred and dislike against it. The reservoir of hate has become much deeper since 11/9/2001. Sometimes the dam wall breaks a little. But if the USA does not open its eyes soon, the dam wall will burst wide open and unleash the entire reservoir. The suicide hijackings are just the first in a series of anti-USA actions which are sure to continue. If you whip an angry lion, it does not lie down and roll over. A country which has a "shoot'em up'' approach to world politics should not be surprised when some of their victims take the same attitude. Since the USA has been terrorizing the world for the last 100 years, they can't be surprised if a little terror blows back at them. If the USA continues to treat the other countries of the world as some sort of rebellious provinces,they could soon find that no US citizen is welcome in many parts of the world.

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Reasons why the USA is hated
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1) Massive war crimes in Vietnam war: The mass murder of well over 1 million (some say about 3 million) innocent Vietnamese civilians during the Vietnam war was an act of mass state terrorism. (The USA also used chemical weapons such as dioxins and Agent Orange in this aggressive war.) The USA should have been forced to pay hundreds of billions of dollars of reparations for their war crimes. But instead, the USA imposed horrendous trade sanctions on Vietnam which led to mass starvation for many years. At the same time, the USA forced the Vietnamese to put a humiliating amount of effort into finding decades-old corpses of American war criminals. Hundreds of thousands of innocent civilian Vietnamese died without their bodies being recovered.Seemingly,some US citizens are capable of feeling no sympathy for any people other than their own.They think that one American is worth a thousand foreigners. There are many people in the USA even now who are proud of their participation in the mass murder and war crimes in Vietnam.

{Personal Note:Ironically,this is a conundrum for me,as without the Vietnam War being fought,my country Singapore would not have grown strong enough to resist communist infiltration and subversion,and thus the Vietnam War bougt us time to cull the communist population down to size and eradicate them.However,this does NOT excuse the Americans for the murder of several of my fellow Asians,many of whom were innocent}

2)Destruction of democracy in Chile: The removal of the freely elected democratic government of Chile by the CIA, including the bombing of the presidential palace (on another September 11), followed by the murder of thousands of innocent civilians. This proves that the USA is not in favour of democracy.In you wish to know,this refers to General Pinochet who in a coup upsurped the democartically elected government with CIA support and American money.Pinochet was responsible for the 'dissappearance' of many political dissidents and opponents.

3)Embargo of Cuba but not China or Saudi Arabia: Decades of embargo of the government of Cuba, while the USA gives most favoured nation status to China, which is one of the most undemocratic governments and repressive regimes in the world.The support for China and Saudi Arabia is purely in the US self-interest.The dislike of Cuba could stem from the fact that it has resisted American hegemony and influence as well as politics influenced by the Cuban exile community.Cuba is not angel,but this reflects double standards on the part of America.Please compare the Saudi Arabian and Cuban human rights records,and then make a judgement.Of course,since Saudi Arabia is the source of the majority of the world's crude oil,it is a political necessity for the American government.

4)Preference for totalitarian China,not democratic Taiwan:For a few decades now, the USA has been cooperating with China in the international ostracism of Taiwan.Although Taiwan is a democratic country and China is a totalitarian one-party dictatorship, the USA takes the side of China. This is because the USA wants access to China's markets for its own industrial interests.This shows that the USA is against democracy when it serves its own interests. The USA actually prefers to have totalitarian dictatorships as allies,as has been shown for many decades around the world,as initially in the case of Taiwan,South Korea and Chile.The USA is not pro-democracy.The USA is just pro-capitalist.How can anyone believe that the USA prefers democracy when they see them isolate Taiwan so as to be friendly towards China? Some people argue that the USA is the world's strongest guarantor of Taiwan's security against Chinese aggression,but the USA also accepts and propagates the lie that Taiwan is part of China, and the USA gave the Taiwanese seat at the UN to China,when USA initially only recognised Taiwan.

5)Total devotion to Israel despite 5 decades of ethnic cleansing of Palestinians:The USA continues to protect, encourage and finance Israel in its crimes against humanity in Palestinian territories.The USA thwarts nearly every humane gesture by the United Nations in regard to Israel.The USA encourages and financially supports the slaughter of several hundred innocent people in Palestine every year by Israeli death squads seeking expanded living space for Jewish settlements.It is clear that the USA's ruling class favours Israel heavily.They are blinded by their favouritism of Israel.[If the Palestinians all converted to Christianity or Judaism from Islam,the scales would fall from the eyes of the Americans.Then they would realise that the Palestinians are human beings].The occupied West Bank of Jordan resembles the Warsaw Ghetto of World War II.The occupied West Bank is a slave colony of the Israelis.However deeds which were evil when the Germans did them to Jews in WW2 are now encouraged every day(indirectly) by the USA when the Israelis do them.Seeing the enthusiastic American Government support for Israelis turning innocent Palestinians into corpses is the principal cause of worldwide Muslim anger against the USA.(Jewish intellectuals, as individuals, are among the best people in the world in my opinion.The Jewish people have the highest regard for education, intelligence and learning. But the Israeli apartheid regime has soiled the good name of all Jewish people.)

My personal theory about the love affair between the USA and Israel is that the Americans feel a deep sense of emptiness in their short history.They can look back with nostalgia to the early migrations, the severance from Britain, the settlement/appropriation of the West,and the Civil War.However they have no deep sense of history as other nations have.To fill this gap, they look to the Christian bible,which is tacked onto the Jewish bible, and see their deeper origins as lying in Jewish history.Therefore US Americans feel that in some fundamental sense they originate from the Jewish people.So the love of Israel is really a kind of yearning for the ancestors.If the USA severed its attachment to Israel, US Americans would have to face the emptiness of their own short history.Many people wonder why a rich country such as the USA is so obsessed with religion.(Usually religion fades in rich countries,to be replaced with spiritualism/free thinking/atheism/personal philosophies).The answer may be that perhaps Christianity gives the USA a deeper national creation mythology than they can compose in their own right.The Jewish and Christian stories are substitutes for a deeper US American national creation mythology.

{Personal Note:Similarly,my country owes Israel to an extent for contributing to our survival,as we are surrounded by Indonesia to the south,the largest Muslim nation in the world,and we have fought one war with them before,when we were still a colony of Britain and part of Malaysia.I admire the Israelis as great soldiers,warriors and scientists,and I can understand their fight for survival,but they have gone beyond reasonable limits in oppressing people and killing off hundreds of innocent Muslims.}

6)Causing the `Asian meltdown' through oppressive loan conditions: Enforcement of completely inappropriate and humiliating conditions on Thailand through the IMF(International Monentary Fund),which is controlled by the USA. In the "Asian crisis'' of about 1997,the currency of Thailand collapsed,due to the sudden withdrawal of huge amounts of capital,mostly by the USA.As a result, there was massive unemployment,thousands of people committed suicide when they lost their jobs,and the misery continued for several years until the time of their current Prime Minister,Thaksin Shinawatra.The IMF forced Thailand to carry out even more inappropriate measures after the crisis,whereas Malaysia under Mahathir refused the IMF commands.Malaysia's economy improved quickly but Thailand's did not and lingered until reforms were carried out.The economies of Vietnam and China hardly noticed the "Asian meltdown'', because they did not follow the IMF commands.Similar conditions were forced on Indonesia,resulting in some of the worst chaos seen since the 1960's,resulting in the persecution of thousands of Chinese and other non-Muslims.Under the current regime,conditions are better,and the TNI(Indonesian Armed Forces) is now keeping order in Aceh,cleansing Muslim rebels and killing terrorists in its various islands,with less overt racism.

7)Bombing of Cambodia and Laos:During the 1970s and throughout the Vietnam War,the USAF intruded into the airspace of these countries and bombed villages and towns along the border with Vietnam,in an attempt to wipe out Viet Cong supply lines.To my knowledge,in the end they succeeded in crippling the Viet Cong through a combination of operations in Vietnam,but the bombings of Cambodia and Laos resulted in the deaths of thousands of civilians and other non-combatants.The USAF has never officially acknowledged the existence of such bombing operations or the deaths,officials have never been brought to trial under international law for war crimes,neither has it offered an apology for these actions.


8)Funding, weapons and training for Nicaraguan terrorists: The USA gave huge amounts of funding to terrorists in Nicaragua who killed hundreds of thousands of Nicaraguans in the 1980s with guns and mines on farmland. Tens of thousands of innocent civilians lost their legs or were maimed in other ways.When there was finally an election along US-approved lines, the USA said the vote was not fair and would not be recognized - until it emerged that the USA's puppet won, and then they immediately announced that the election was completely fair.(The previous election which brought the Sandinistas to power was recognized by official European observers and everyone else as free and fair.However the people didn't elect a pro-capitalist and pro-American government.Thus the US rejected that election as flawed.The USA was happy with the previous puppet dictator Somoza.)

9)Illegal mining of Managua harbour:The USA illegally mined Managua Harbour. When the USA was taken to the international court for this and the USA lost the case,the USA immediately withdrew its recognition of the court,even though it had agreed by treaty to give at least 6 months notice of withdrawal of recognition.The USA clearly believes that only other countries need to abide by international agreements.The USA is seemingly exempt from most international laws.Another example is the provision pushed through by America that its soldiers are immune to standing trials under the International Court of Human Rights for crimes against humanity and war crimes.the US government has passed a law to impose sanctions on any country which cooperates with the International Criminal Court, and they have passed a law to indemnify American war criminals from legal action.Thus,the US indicates that it is free to commit war crimes with impunity.

10)Arrogant, conceited nationalism:Some American citizens have a general attitude that they are rich because they are superior.This is totally explicitly stated,especially on ceremonial occasions.The reason the USA is rich is for many reasons, including very successful exploitation of other countries, the fact that they came into World Wars I and II very late when other countries were exhausted, the geographical isolation of the USA,the fertile land which they took from the indigenous people (whom they largely exterminated),and their homogeneous(though increasingly diverse) language and culture.

11) Imposition of unfair conditions of trade:Throughout the 1990s, the USA has been imposing "globalisation'' on the whole world. This is a propaganda term which means Americanisation of culture,economics and politics.Many countries are forced to cut back on all public services and social welfare as the US has done,and every country must accept anything that the US wants to export,no matter how much this harms the economies of the other countries.This often means that even valid health objections are rejected by the USA.When other countries succeed in exporting to the USA, e.g. farm goods at 1/3 the cost of production, the USA puts on heavy tariffs and gives substantial support to US farmers.Current estimates are that 50% of US farm income comes from the government.The USA does not permit any other country to do this.When other countries object, the USA wrangles in courts for years until so much damage is done that the issue is no longer relevant. The so-called "globalisation'' ideology is making poor countries poorer and the USA richer.

12)Protectionism in Trade Agreements:As stated in point 11,the USA is protectionist when it comes to its agricultural industries and places heavy tariffs on other goods,discouraging competition where it harms them,therefore making the treaty unequal in terms accorded.One example are the heavy tariffs on Vietnamese catfish,which are considerably cheaper than American catfish in rearing and breeding.This is a prime example of undair trade terms and protectionism.A 2nd example are the tariffs on European steel,produced at cheaper prices and superior quality to American steel.The steel industry used successful lobbying to get tariffs imposed on European steel.In this regard,it is more equal as Europe applied stiff tariffs on American steel in turn,something about which many American steel companies complained about.Finally,another example is the Australia-US FTA,where the agricultural products of Australia are heavily tarriffed to protect American agricultural produce.

13)Support for Indonesian massacre of Chinese: The USA approved the Suharto government's killing of about 500,000 Chinese Indonesians who were suspected of being communist sympathisers.This incident occured in the 1960s and other reports estimate up to a million or more were killed.500 000 is a conservative estimate.

14)Support for Indonesian invasion and massacre of East Timor: The US government gave the go-ahead to the Indonesian government to invade East Timor in 1975. This resulted in the several hundred thousand deaths of innocent civilians,with US approval.No action was taken by the UN to stop this action.

15)Invasion of Haiti: Occupation of Haiti in 1994 to install US choice of régime.The USA also invaded and occupied Haiti from 1915 to 1934.

16)Invasion of Grenada: Invasion of Grenada in 1983 to install pro-US government.

17)Attempted invasion of Cuba:Unsuccessful invasion of Cuba (1961) to install pro-US-capitalist government. Large numbers of people pointlessly killed for ideological/economic reasons,with no apology.This is related to the Bay of Pigs revolt put down by Fidel Castro,when CIA-trained Cuban exiles attempted to invade Cuba and assassinate Castro.

18)Support for Muslim terrorists in Afghanistan:Support of Muslim fanatics in Afghanistan to kill Russians and other Soviet citizens.As a result of US actions in Afghanistan, huge numbers of Russian conscripts were killed,the country's political system collapsed, and the political vacuum was filled by US client groups who violated human rights on a vast scale with US support, knowledge and acquiescence.

{Personal Note:During the Afghanistan actions from 1979-1989,America funded mujahideen groups through the CIA,one such group being led by Osama bin Laden who went to aid in the jihad to liberate Afghanistan from the USSR.Of course,once they had fulfilled their use,the US simply abandoned them,rather than doing anything constructive to rebuild Afghanistan.At the very least,they did not betray them}

19)Support for Iraqi war crimes and weapons of mass destruction:Support for Iraqi aggression against Iran in the Iraq-Iran war of the 1980s,despite the very well-known fact that Iraq attacked Iran pre-emptively without warning from the air in the expectation of destroying all of Iran's planes on the ground and occupying all of Iran.The Iraqis killed over 1 million Iranians (which helps explain the high proportion of young people in Iran now 20 years later).The Iraqis used chemical and biological weapons with US knowledge and active support because of the US desire to punish Iran.(This indicates that the USA is in favour of the use of `weapons of mass destruction' by its clients, allies and puppets.WMDs are okay for the USA's friends.An example is the 500 nuclear warheads possessed by Israel.)To this day,US sanctions are still in place against Iran,whle the Swiss serve as the intermediaries for America.

While siding with Iraq against Iran, the US shot down an Iranian passenger plane,killing hundreds of people, even though it was clear from all sources of information that it was a civilian plane.A 'trigger-happy' naval officer shot it down before thinking.

This is the problem with giving the "power of a god to someone without the discipline,intelligence,morals or responsibility that comes with that power".The USA just so easily wipes out hundreds, thousands or millions of lives without consequences to itself.Similar 'trigger-happy' incidents have occurd as recent as in Afghanistan,where a US plane bombed Canadian soldiers on the ground,killing several and the Iraqi war,where several British soldiers suffered under "friendly fire" from American forces."Friendly fire" that killed some of them.The US has also been known to bomb weddings and other family gatherings,as seen in Afghanistan in at least one incident.

20)Use of armaments sales to apply pressure:The USA has used weapons sales to countries to apply diplomatic pressure to its advantage.An example is their refusal to grant my country direct access to the AMRAAM missile systems when we had bought them,instead insisting on storing them in Deigo Garcia and then shipping them to us if we ever were to fight a war.Since then,we are increasinly turning to European and Russian defence contractors and indigenous weapons designs to reduce reliance on America and bypass any form of diplomatic pressure.An example is the arms embargo on Indonesia.

21)Corrupt political lobbying in the USA:The US lectures other countries on cronyism,but has the worst case of crony capitalism in the world.The US government gives in to corporate lobbying on all subjects,including the protection of US farmers and industries from free world trade.The Jewish lobbying causes the US government to support horrible human rights abuses in occupied Palestine.The USA's form of government could be accurately described as "policy payola''.

22)Rejection/sabotage of international standards:Whenever an international standard develops for anything, the USA tries to undermine it.Just one example is the adoption of GSM, which was invented in Europe.The US ideology demanded that there should be multiple competing digital mobile phone technologies because pointless competition is part of the USA's culture.As a result,the USA ended up with an appalling mess in mobile telephony whereas the rest of the world got the very successful GSM.Just like IBM had a long history of thwarting every attempt to build industry-wide standards in the computer industry (they only attended standards meeting to sabotage and delay any standards),so the USA tries to prevent the emergence of all world standards.The USA regards international standards as a threat to its world dominance.International standards are "not the US national interest''.

23)Imposition of American beliefs on other nations:I take issue most often with the Christian right of the USA,which is trying to exports its ideology on major issues such as abortion and contraception to other parts of the world.Similarly,I take issue with militant atheists imposing their views on others from across the world.Please,keep your beliefs to yourself and don't impose them on other people.I certainly don't need saving by Jesus,and I certainly don't need saving from views that organised religion is a form of socital insanity.Keep your damn views to your own damn continent,thank you very much.

24)Cultural domination through extra-territorial copyright law: The US imposes its laws against music and video copying throughout the world, exercising extra-territorial jurisdiction.Because of the use by pathetically weak encryption by the US music and film industry,the USA has a law called the DMCA, which forbids decryption of music and videos.However,people in Europe and Russia have decrypted these formats.Therefore these people are prosecuted in the USA for acts which are legal in other countries.One prominent example is the CSS encryption,which enables US companies to charge more in Europe and Asia than in the USA.It also prevents Linux users from playing video disks.This kind of market distortion is the opposite to globalisation and is anti-competitive.This shows that the USA lies when they say they are in favour of globalisation and free competition.They are only in favour of globalisation and free competition in market sectors where the USA is strong.In the markets where the USA is weak,they enforce anti-competitive and anti-trade protectionist measures,and laws to distort markets in their favour.The USA has unilaterally extended the 28 years of copyright protection which used to be the international norm to 50 and now to 70 years. (Some people say, probably correctly, that this is to satisfy Disney and such companies.)Then the USA forces their one-sided interests on everyone else.

25)Environmental delinquency: The USA unilaterally withdrew from the climate treaty, because it was not in the US short-term interest to cooperate with other countries. This is despite the fact that the USA has about the same standard of living as Western Europe with about twice the per capita energy consumption. The USA is just an extremely inefficient consumer of fuel,which forces to the rest of the world to use less. The USA wants other countries to make economic sacrifices to help the USA, but not vice versa.

26)Economic subjugation/Population abues through extra-territorial patent law: The USA insists that patent law should be sacred world-wide when the USA wants to maximize its profits from AIDS treatment drugs.As a result, millions of people are dying needlessly world-wide in poor countries.Of course, when the USA wanted to get some cheap anti-anthrax drugs because about when relatively few people in the USA had died,then on the grounds of national emergency,the USA said that they should be able to override the patents just to get a price reduction for a drug which they could well afford. This has outraged people worldwide who see that the value of a USA citizen is a million times greater than that of citizens of other countries,in the USA's view.

27)Energy wastage: In terms of energy efficiency, the USA has about the same standard of living as Western Europe but with twice the consumption of energy. As a result, the USA has to control world oil prices so as to maintain its standard of living.On top of this, they refuse to restrict their pollution of the atmosphere,as evidenced by their refusal to sign the Kyoto Protocols,when they are the heavist polluter on the planet.

28)Support for Irish terrorism: For the last 30 years,the USA has been the principle funder of the Irish terrorists who have been killing both civilians and soldiers trying to keep the peace in Northern Ireland.This shows that the USA only objects to terrorists who are Muslim and/or anti-American.The anti-British Northern Irish terrorists are neutral with regards to the USA.Thus the USA allows the IRA to raise funds and gain political support to kill the English in Britain and the Protestants in Northern Ireland. This shows that the USA very definitely will not declare a war on all terrorists.This occured despite repeated requests by the UK for the US to shut down IRA cells based in the USA.

29) Wilful disregard of Rwandan genocide: When the US personnel in Rwanda knew that there was about to be a massacre, they quickly got all their people out of there and let the massacre happen, making almost no public comment while 800,000 people were murdered. The USA could have stopped it, but they were worried that US citizens might die as they did in Somalia. This must be what the US government means by moral leadership. US moral leadership means getting out of anything that is of no immediate benefit to the USA. One US citizen means more to the US government than 800,000 Rwandans. The US government pretended that they didn't know there was going to be a genocide, because then they would have been obliged under the Genocide Convention to do something about it. But revelations since then have shown that the government did know about it before and while it was happening.

30)Harrassing the creation of the International Criminal Court: The US government has done everything it can to hinder the establishment of an international court to prosecute war criminals and crimes against humanity because they are worried that they and their client states will be brought before this court. They have even passed a law to put sanctions on any country which cooperates with the international court. Once again, the USA uses extra-territorial quasi-legal measures to intimidate other countries, even their nominal friends and allies, as a way of achieving the USA's self-interest. In this case, the USA knows that it regularly commits war crimes all over the world. As a result, it will not be possible to bring war criminals of other nationalities to such a court,due to the precedent set by the USA in this regard.

31)Sex tourism by military and civilians: When many American males travel overseas, they have only one principal objective, namely to have sex with as many local women as possible. US women should know that when their partners travel overseas, they spend all of their time and energy (and much of their money) trying to get sex with local women. This spreads diseases and unwanted children. US males tell lies to women to dupe them into having sex with them. This is true in all parts of the world, Asia, Europe, Australia, and everywhere else.This stands true particularly for military personnel,as seen in Korea and Okinawa,as well as in the Philipines.

32)Resistance to globalisation of measurement units: While lecturing and bullying the rest of the world to accept US exports under the slogan of "globalisation'', which really means Americanization of non-US economies, the USA refuses to globalise its measurement units. They still use the medieval units known as British Imperial measures even though 95% of the world has converted to modern decimal-based units (the metric or SI system) as developed in France during the 18th century. The USA is 200 years behind the rest of the world, but they keep bullying everyone else to be like them. It's time they showed some commitment to globalization and immediately removed all usage of miles, furlongs, acres, fahrenheit, feet, inches, pounds, ounces, imperial tons, hundredweight, stones, gallons and quarts. The old units are so quaint, but they are a serious impediment to world trade. Get moving, USA, and catch up with the rest of the world!!! Every other country has to produce everything in dual units for the USA. The USA claims to be very modern, but is in actual fact the most backward bountry in the world in measuring units. Everybody else in the world can cope with metric units. So why can't the USA cope?

33)Export of Christian-right ideology, causing massive AIDS deaths: In order to get votes from the catholic anti-condom, anti-contraception, anti-abortion (and anti many other things) lobby, the US government impedes the use of condoms in poor countries which have a serious AIDS problem. Just as one example, Kenya has a very serious AIDS problem, but the US has cut off aid to organisations in Kenya making condoms available to prevent AIDS. The result in poor countries of this sort of policy is a vast increase in AIDS sickness and death. The USA say that they give a lot of foreign aid. But this is propaganda nonsense. The USA gives only about 0.1% of GDP in foreign aid, compared to 3 times that much for most western countries. Some western countries give as much as 1% of GDP in foreign aid. The USA is near the bottom of the league table in overseas aid.

34)Bhopal disaster, India: When a US company caused the deaths of many thousands of people in India due to a chemical leak, the USA gave negligible compensation to the victims. The sympathy for these people was less than the sympathy for any minor incident in the USA. The USA's big companies value the lives of non-US citizens at absolute zero.However when even one US citizen is killed, there's a huge fuss. If the USA wants people to feel sympathetic towards their victims of disasters, they should start regarding non-US citizens as full human beings. All the USA thinks about in disasters like Bhopal is how to minimize the compensation payouts. So why should anyone feel sympathy for the much less serious NY incident on 11/9/2001. The USA is milking that incident for all it's worth.

35)Ethnic cleansing of Native Americans: The USA was built on Native American land which was stolen. This was achieved by the ethnic cleansing of the entire area of the USA apart from a few "reservations'' which are the bits left over that the colonists didn't immediately want.Americans should never forget that the USA is a colony created by theft.Therefore the USA cannot lecture other countries about colonisation.A nation that was built from ethnic cleansing and slavery is not in a strong position to talk internationally about morality. The "cowboys and indians'' movie genre during the 20th century has given the impression that the ethnic cleansing of native American lands was something like a sport where the 'good guys' won. How many countries proudly base their national cinema culture on their own history of ethnic cleansing?
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Anyone in the USA who really, really wants to understand why so many people hate the USA should read the above points and do further research of their own to learn of the huge scale of murder and horrendous exploitation of other countries by the USA. Of course, it is not in the "interests'' of US citizens to learn about the harm they are doing every day to the rest of the world. Some people say that citizens of the USA don't know what's being done in their name. They say they are innocent bystanders. But that's what the Germans said after WW2: "We knew nothing...''. The Germans have learned that they must act early to stop outrages. Now citizens of the USA must learn the same lesson.

Personally, I don't hate(I just dislike it and loathe its policies intensely) the USA,or most of its population.However I am dismayed by the horrors inflicted on the poor countries of the world by the USA. No country can afford to make enemies of the majority of countries in the world. The excessive use of the "big stick'' to solve all international problems has resulted in a very resentful world. Like a tiger trainer who whacks the tigers too often, the USA needs to be careful now. Even tigers sometimes kill their trainer or elephants when they have been beaten once too often.

Many people in the world hoped on 11/9/2001 that US citizens would stop and think about what they are doing which attracts so much hate.Apparently,America and its people have not.
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Sympathy Squandered(From another Author,not me)


Sympathy squandered.
For a day or two after the 11/9/2001 suicide hijacks, the whole world felt a huge sympathy for the USA. For once we saw the USA weak and vulnerable. When the USA was strutting the world stage as the selfish international bully, no one could feel affection for them. But seeing them weak for once made it possible to feel compassion and sympathy.

But the USA squandered the sympathy it deserved on 11-9-2001. If the US had been more gentle and understanding, the sympathy would have continued. But instead, the USA turned into a super-bully, much more selfish and bloodthirsty than ever before. And this is why the USA is without friends now. The USA has cashed in its international goodwill chips. There will be no chips left when the USA needs friends.

Apart from the UK and Australia, most countries and their governments grew weary of the super-bully renaissance by the end of 2001. The USA received sympathy even from the Muslim countries after 9-11. Now that's gone. If only the USA could find ways of resolving conflict apart from violence and annihilation, the world may once again feel genuine solidarity with the USA - not the kind of `cooperation' which is forced at the threat of sanctions and violence.

No one's going to feel affection or goodwill for a country which looks down on them. People all over the world felt deep sympathy and affection for the USA on 11/9/2001 because that's how people feel towards a country in need. The USA has squandered that sympathy and affection. To regain the world's affection, the USA will have to stop behaving unilaterally and arrogantly and start learning how to be more practical and intelligent and at least a bit more magnanimous and benign in regard to foreign policy.

Whoa...that's a ton of info...I stopped after about 3 lines...so if this wasn't a reason, you should add that the world hates America because we're all lazy.

I'm American and hate that the world hates us. I understand we deserve it, but I also understand that it isn't my fault. I hate the people (GWB) who put us in this position, although there was plenty of reason to hate us before, just not near as much...

Most of what you say is very applicable and shows an excellant understanding of history. A little of what you put in there, not enough to warrant specific mention, seems out of place but it might just be that there are economic or political facets that you didn't understand or know about.

Speaking as a member of the United States military, I have to agree that for a nation that claims to be 'the police of the world' that we've done a poor job policing our selves. Too much conflict and self interest has tainted what we do in the rest of the world. I only hope that with the military's current reforms (Don't let what a few assholes in Iraq did to prisoners fool you, the United States military is currently undertaking heavy reform) and a possible changing of the guard in the white house that we can begin to undo this.

Would it surprise you to know that the typical amercan education has next to nothing about foreign history and politics? The concept that we americans are not loved by the rest of the world is actually kind of new to many of us.

Good job Ilham, It's obvious you put a lot of work into that. (I only read up to no.12)

Yes.

Its all true.

There are some things you point out that are just not accurate though.
Blaming the people of America for what our elected leaders do, really isnt fair.
Becuase, we really dont have any say in the government, other than who we vote for.
Whatever those people do in office, they do AFTER we elect them.
The average civillian cant do anything about what the president does, no matter how wrong it is.

Except talk about it anywhere in the country he wants to.

Yes.
Our leaders do some really nasty things, and the reality is that most of Americans have no idea what has gone on in our names.
Ignorance is bliss.

This is also wrong:
My personal theory about the love affair between the USA and Israel is that the Americans feel a deep sense of emptiness in their short history.They can look back with nostalgia to the early migrations, the severance from Britain, the settlement/appropriation of the West,and the Civil War.However they have no deep sense of history as other nations have.To fill this gap, they look to the Christian bible,which is tacked onto the Jewish bible, and see their deeper origins as lying in Jewish history.Therefore US Americans feel that in some fundamental sense they originate from the Jewish people.So the love of Israel is really a kind of yearning for the ancestors.

No.
Most Americans dont care about Israel one way or another.
There isnt really any sense of nostalgia there, its just a place "with crazy people who cant live peacefully" to us.

Our Government likes Israel because they like our money, and guns.
They also have some good technologies to buy.
Mostly we like them, becuase they let us have military bases there.
Soon, the middle east is going to be a bad bad place to be.
Its inevitable, the middle east will be in a big big war someday.
Thats why its nice to have heavily armed freinds there.
Freinds that live close by lots of oil.

Its all about money.

Did you type all that using the forums, or type it up on your computer and then copy it in, I can't imagine typing that much in one go, it makes my brain hurt.
But anyways, a point by point rebuttal of sorts:

1) The use of chemical weapons and the slaying of civilians is really nasty stuff, yet they were necessary weapons against ruthless geurillas. Further, the idea of laws in war is, in fact, just an excuse to execute the losers after they've surrendered and then allow who ever is strongest to squeezze a bit of moolah out of the whole thing. Also, the Vietnamese inflicted horrible tortures upon those americans who were captured alive, so both sides were far from innocent. Its war, and war isn't fun. The Vietnamese had to hand over the bodies as it was their turf (they went to war to have it) on which the bodies were located, and, last I checked, not a fugging lot of Vietnamese corpses were smuggled on to U.S. territories. Finally, it is not the role of the U.S. leaders to be concerned with the lives or interests of other nations and/or their peoples. IMHO, all leaders should evaluate the value of lives along the lines of 1 of my citizens=19,999 of someone elses, no president of the U.S. was elected by or for the Vietnamese peoples. Just as the British prime ministers were never held to the ideals of the Japanese.

2) Er, can't really defend there. Mainly because I'm not up to scratch on the Chile state of affairs. Boo on me.

3) The embargo on Cuba is, in part, a result of the fact that Cuba went with the Soviet Union, causing such wonderful events as the Cuban Missile Crisis. This results in the standard issue bad blood being developed. Further, it is harder to ignore your nextdoor neighbour than it is the jerk on the other side of the world. Why do Ssians care more about Cubans than about Saudis anyway? China, I can see, but the Saudis? Anyway, the Saudis provide oil, as you mentioned, which is more valuable than goild in a developed/industrialized nation. Also, China is filled with people who make cheap crap, and if we don't get it from them, where will it come from?

4) That is a trend being turned around. Bill Clinton gave the Chinese a whole lot in their goody bags, because of the contributions made to the Clinton campaigns. George Bush is trying to work with the Taiwanese (That is a word right, right!?) to hold off the Chinese. And, so what if the U.S. is out to make money, thats life. Everyone in the world seeks money and power, we're human, its what we do. China is also turning around somewhat and gradually following the course of the U.S.S.R.

5) Israel is not, in fact, the spawn of satan. Primus, a short list of facts:

No such things as Palestenians (The land that is now claimed by the "Palestenians" was formerly held by Egypt and other mid-east countries.)
Israel gained the West Bank, Gaza Strip, etc. After the Seven Days War in which they were sorely outnumbered, outgunned, and assaulted by the Arab States
Israel is the only true democracy in the Middle East
The disputed lands were seized as a buffer zone and are also strategic military points, in case of a repeat of The Seven Days War

Further, there is no "slave colony," the Israelis would just as soon the west bank was deserted by the Palestenians. Finally, Israeli actions are in self-defense. Militant Muslim groups kill Israelis, hurling their own bodies at the enemy. In response Israelis have to develop some unsavory methods of self-defense (Such as security checkpoints, assassination of dangerous leaders, etc.). However, Israel has never advocated the slaying of civies, a show of great restraint when you consider the hell they're trapped in. I can't really theorize much about the lack of American Heritage, except to say that most Americans I know are plenty happy with their own culture.

I'll stop my point-by-point analysis for now, though, given a day or so to recover, I'll probably continue.

A very detailed and well-thought out presentation.

I am a 16 year old student from Britain and I know about 95% of what is listed, however I have never really had the time to catalogue and post it all.

I salute you.

Good job! You summed up the reasons I'm not proud to be an American (and added a couple more).

Ok you hate the United States.

It's been said here over and over and over and over and over and ......

Most of the time I ignore it.

I am a Global Hopper. I have even been to Singapore. Never once found a bit of hatred. Must of missed you. :p

The United States is the Big Dog. History shows you don't get to be the big dog by being nice.

But lets look at your list:


1) It was war and war means killing. Mass terrorism *sigh* that word is starting to get used as much as WMD.

Don't think the Vietnamese are completely innocent. They did some rather crappy things as well. One thing that comes to mind. The VC went into a village that sent men to the South Viet army. To send a message to the area, they rounded up everybody: women, children, old and turn flame throwers on them.

As to the rest of your comments. They are not worthy of answers as I think you have a limited view. I work with men that were there. The lived through the war for several years. They paint a different picture then you do. So you have a limited understanding of the war.

For you info, the war still has effects on people to this day. It was about 25 years before they could really talk about it.

2) No comment on Chile. I worked with one man whose family disappeared. He stepped out for a walk and arrived home to find it empty. A neighbor told him what happened, he grabbed what he could and fled.

3) Ever hear of the Cuban Missile Crisises. Castro almost caused the end of the world. If it wasn't for JFK and ol Niketa, the missiles would have flew.

Many here are starting to say the embargo has gone on long enough. So it will change in time.

As to China and the Saudis. It's about money. Sorry but if you have bothered to look many other countries trade with these two countries.


4)Ok The US doesn't support Taiwan? Wow gues the staring matches between the US and China are lies. The US supports Taiwan. Many of our large corporations have factories there. My company has an office there.

As to US comments of Taiwan being part of China? It's just political talk. If the US really felt that way, why haven't the Chinese moved in?

5) The Israel question is rather tough.

You have a rather biased view of the area. Much of the problem is the principle of an eye for an eye. Each has to have revenge attacks. Nobody is willing to back off.

Now, don't talk about the Palis being innocent non-assuming people. They have done some rather crapy stuff as well(other things besides the suicide bombing).

Did you know Arafat is a billionaire? Hmmmm how much of that money was sent by muslims for aid to the Palistineans.

I have been there so I have seen both sides of the issue. Many people in Israel think the seatlments are wrong. Many people in Palistine don't belive in suicide bombings.

What do you know of the Warsaw Ghetto? My fathers side is Polish.


My personal theory about the love affair between the USA and Israel is that the Americans feel a deep sense of emptiness in their short history.They can look back with nostalgia to the early migrations, the severance from Britain, the settlement/appropriation of the West,and the Civil War.However they have no deep sense of history as other nations have.To fill this gap, they look to the Christian bible,which is tacked onto the Jewish bible, and see their deeper origins as lying in Jewish history.Therefore US Americans feel that in some fundamental sense they originate from the Jewish people.So the love of Israel is really a kind of yearning for the ancestors.If the USA severed its attachment to Israel, US Americans would have to face the emptiness of their own short history.Many people wonder why a rich country such as the USA is so obsessed with religion.(Usually religion fades in rich countries,to be replaced with spiritualism/free thinking/atheism/personal philosophies).The answer may be that perhaps Christianity gives the USA a deeper national creation mythology than they can compose in their own right.The Jewish and Christian stories are substitutes for a deeper US American national creation mythology.


Wow you are Muslim aren't you? I can tell you that you have little understanding of Americans or their history.


6) Can't comment. Though a friend how is a ranger in Malaysia does tell me Japanese companies do some rather crappy things in that country.

7) War is about killing. Civilians die and that is the crappy thing of war.

It could be argued that it wouldn't have happened if the Cong hadn't been operating out of there.

8) Nicaragua. Sorry but not many people here really supported that war. However, the Sandanistas weren't nice people either so.....


9) Don't know the Mining operation that well so can't comment.

10) Arrogant, conceited nationalism. That phrase can be applied to many nations.

The US wealth comes from many things.

11) Globalization is causing problems here. There are many people who are getting angered by job exportation.

Sorry but not every nation has done worst. Our Indian workers say the average wage in Bangalore is up significantly.

So you are wrong to say everybody is worst off from it.

Also you over look one thing. Protectionism is not a US only practice.

US rice producers have been blocked from the asia market for years.

Oh wait we must have forced it open! :rolleyes:

12) Sorry but protectionism is not unique to the US.

13) Got evidence to USA approval?

14) East Temor? Sorry but that was not mentioned much over here. I only know of it from some Aussie friends.

15) Invasion of Hati? Yea and what?

16) Yea and what?

17) The Bay of Pigs was indeed a screwover of the people went in. But to correct your comment, they went in to take over Cuba. Not simply assassinate Castro.

Again ever here of the Cuban Missile Crisis?

The US does not like the Cuban Goverment.

If we wanted them dead then why do we keep taking refugees? Miami has a huge Cuban population.

18)Support for Muslim terrorists in Afghanistan:

You really have no clue about Afghanistan. I work with a guy that fled from there. The Soviets killed a great deal of people. They litterally flattened the place.

So complaining about Russian dead will not get you the ears of the people who survived the Russians.

Did you know the Soviets were involved in Viet Nam? Payback is a bitch.

However, yes the US flaked on rebuilding and it looks like it will flack on rebuilding again.

Things are bad there.

19)

Ahh Iran Iraq war? Here is a tidbit. The americans were still pissed over the hostages. Of course Iraq looked like a good deal. Later we figured we were wrong.


20) Arms is a good question. However, you know who sells more? China.

21) *sigh*

Again my friend in Malaysia will tell you that there are some Japanese Businessmen that will do things that the most corrupt americans will blink.


22) Topic rather large for a simple post.

23) *SNIP* comment repealed as his Christian comments were missunderstood!

"Similarly,I take issue with militant atheists imposing their views on others from across the world.Please,keep your beliefs to yourself and don't impose them on other people.I certainly don't need saving by Jesus,and I certainly don't need saving from views that organised religion is a form of socital insanity."

Ahm genious. Athiests don't belive in God or Religon.

24) Ok let me get this right. Companies don't want there products freely copied as they spent capitol making it. You think it should be free.

Ahh ok.



25) No comment on Kyoto. Here is a newsflash. Many Americans think it was wrong as well.


26) No argument on the aids drugs, etc. Pharmasuticals are a sore point as well.

Guess what? The drug companies screw us as well.

27)Energy waste. Well in some areas yes. In others we do pretty well. Take cloths washers. They used to take 40 gallons for a load. Now they have models that use 20. So improvements happen.

Again no comment on Kyoto.

28)

The US goverment supports the IRA? :eek: Wow we must really have total control on Great Britain to fund the IRA and still have their support.

At worst we have IRA people living over here.

But I challenge you to produce evidence of Goverment funding for the IRA

As to fund raising. I would not be surprised if they had people here raising money. We didn't police this stuff.

We had groups raising money for the muslim terrorists and didn't know it.

29) Ok I have Friends in Rawanda that are probably dead. Still haven't made contact.

The US didn't do anything. Yes but others didn't as well. Why? Rawanda was a poor country.

For the US part, they were probably gunshy over the debacle in Somalia. Doesn't make it right but that's probably what happened.

As to the US pulling people out. Here is a newsflash. They order people out of any country that is going to fight.

30)

Well what do you expect. When people like you are SO biased why would you get involved in such a thing?

As to harassing it? The EU seems to have done ok on their own setting it up.


31) Such ignorant comments are not worthy of response.

Yes what goes on there.

References to prostitution can be found throughout recorded history and will go on well past when we die.

32)

Ok try to think this one out. How well would your country take to switching over to our scale? Not an easy undertaking.

They attempted it once but it failed.

We are slowly converting over BTW.

33) laughs. Ok people here never mind.

35) Wow you must have been stretching for stuff to throw.

Yes the lands of the Native americans were stolen. It's called nation building. Many nations have taken land and killed their occupents to do it.

The americans were indeed rather brutal to the tribal people. Probably because they were rather adept at fighting.

Such events were 100 years ago and I kind of think you really don't know that much about that era.

Oh and the cowboys and indians stuff happened in the 1800's to early 1900s.

Also, this was not an American thing.

Try taking a look at the Spanish in central and south america.

----------

Ok after reading that I would say that Ignorance is a large part of that hatred.

You made some points granted but you really don't have a clue on others.

"Personally, I don't hate(I just dislike it and loathe its policies intensely) the USA,or most of its population."

Yea right. You post some rather condisending comments but you try to say that. Sorry buddy I think you have a prejudice against americans.

But as I said I visit many countries and don't find that amount of hatred as you suggest.

Hmmmm I wonder how long till Canuck or Steph reply to me! :p

I read up to #6 and got tired -_- You make a very good point. I disagree with much of the US politics and the government. However i still have what many europeans and asians call "american ignorance" however luckily for me i post on many international forums, so i hear worldwide opinions. USA only teaches in its schools what they want us to know. Now i was also raised with a bit of common sense, i know not to believe every single thing someone says. So i am skeptical, but believing in what you say...im kinda confused..

Yes the lands of the Native americans were stolen. It's called nation building. Many nations have taken land and killed their occupents to do it.

Umm No..

Its called Genocide.

There were over six million native americans before we got here.

Now..less than 600,000.

Maybe you remember Andrew Jackson?
The President?

"The only good indian is a dead one, and Im dedicated to the idea of a lot of dead indians"
-A.J

Yes the lands of the Native americans were stolen. It's called nation building. Many nations have taken land and killed their occupents to do it.

It's a rather poor excuse to say that because we aren't the only ones that did it, it isn't so bad.

It's a rather poor excuse to say that because we aren't the only ones that did it, it isn't so bad.

I wasn't justifying it. The fact is when countries were built people were killed and land taken.

For example: Englands actions in Wales, Ireland and Scotland.

France as it grew.

Can't say for Germany.


Military imperialism is probably gone now. It's more economic imperialism now.

Finally one thing to consider: You really can't apply modern "morality" towards the actions of the past.

People now say slavery was abhorant. However, jump into a time machine and the people of the time will look at you like you were nuts.

The past should only be judged in a way to learn from it and hopefully become better people.

In regards to Israel, the 'Jewish homeland' was part of reparations for WWII. If you think it's the U.S.'s baby, do a little research. It's the Allied Powers' baby from way back then. Mostly England's really. As for the Palestinians.... well, that's another mess.


The USA has helped the world, but just as often, they have helped themselves - to the resources and well-being of the world. US foreign policy is openly based on national "self-interest'', not international cooperation. The only kind of cooperation the USA understands is where other countries "cooperate'' with the USA - i.e. other countries must do what the USA tells them to do or else....the invasion of Iraq which was done under false pretences,though it has served a great good by removing a tyrant from power.


First off, we aren't here to help the world. We're capitalists. I get pissed off about the tax money they take out of my checks every year. A tiny amount compared to what most countries would take... but it's MY money and I EARNED it. I expect our government to act in self-interest, and I expect each person in the country to do so also. I hate welfare :D And to quell any weird 'Oh you say that because you're rich' people, I'm a broke college student. I have my very own dinky apartment, crappy car, and make above minimum wage only because I got a promotion. But I earn my own way, and I'd rather die than take government assistance. At least, that's what I mutter into my ramen noodles. This being a picture of a little American, I'd be mad if our president didn't act accordingly on a global scale. Self-interest in business and politics and so on, that's a core ideal around here. I despise people who lack the spine to act in their own self-interest. If the Kyoto Protocals would be damaging to U.S. business, U.S. president would be out of line to support it. Ecologists will just have to find another way.

The bottom-line: What you see as a sin, we see as a virtue. Self-interest is the philosophy behind capitalism.

Not sure how you tie that into Iraq. Look, we all know the 'pretenses' were just that. But, even you agree it needed to be done. Most Americans weren't real big on how the whole thing went off either. Lord knows my buddy who got shot there wasn't.


About 3000 innocent civilians were killed on 2001-9-11. This is a tiny token compared the suffering inflicted on the world by the USA. (Perhaps I should also mention that the murder rate in the USA is about 80 per million per annum, which is about 20,000 per annum for the whole country. So the deaths on 2001-9-11 were less than a typical 2 months of murders in the USA,a comparatively light loss.


Well, then, we should say murder is Ok? Sheesh, it's not like we let ANYONE get away with it, if we can help it. What kind of arguement IS that anyhow? If you're thinking of actually using this as a scholarly work, I suggest you take that out. I mean really. 3000 people in one day, and we should say 'Oh, well it barely throws off the national average' and let it go?!


If the USA continues to treat the other countries of the world as some sort of rebellious provinces,they could soon find that no US citizen is welcome in many parts of the world.


Followed by criticizing us for non-embargo status of China. Well, they're obviously not doing what we want are they? Eh? But, it's definitely in our self-interest to keep them on our good side. Change what you can, have the grace to accept the things you cannot change. Sorry, we can't push China around. But, we CAN use them to better our own economy. Making us stronger. So, why is Cuba embargoed? Because, that is something we can do something about. A place to 'make a statement.' Why isn't China? Because that wouldn't be good for us. It's in our best interests to try to change the goverment of Cuba, and in our best interests to keep Saudi Arabia and China on the good lists. Yep. Self-interest. (Sound familiar?)

I need some sleep, I'll take on your itemized list Sunday if I got some spare time. Looks like you missed the Asian concentration camps in the U.S. during WWII though :D

Yes, every government does some crappy stuff. Don't even get me started on how I feel about Singapore's penal system... canings?? Sheesh! The problem I have with your post is that you seem to start from the position that we ought to be ashamed of working in our own "self-interest." Don't you? Don't you wake up every morning and try to do what's best for yourself? If you don't, it's you who should be ashamed.

Always an after thought:

Judge the people of today; not the people of the past.

If we did that then Germany and Russia and Japan should be shunned by the world.

The actions of the tribal people should be morned and we should help their decendents as much as they want. Make sure they are included in society and yet make sure they remain who they are.

But that is just me.

Do you people know ANYTHING about the cuban missile crisis, or namely who started it?

Missiles were moved to cuba after the US put Jupiter Intermediate Range Ballistic Missile stations in Turkey, directly bordering several parts of the USSR. Now, the Soviets lacked the technology to create ICBMs, but they did have the shorter range MRBMs. The problem is, obviously, that these missiles could in no way reach the US from the USSR. The solution? Cuba. This was a smart move for the Soviets, since most of the US warning systems were targeted at Russia, meaning an attack from Cuba would go unnoticed.

Now that you've learned a bit about your own history, let me tell you something else you may not have figured out yet... THIS WAS OVER 40 YEARS AGO! CUBA DOESN'T HAVE SOVIET MISSILES ANYMORE!

THere is no good reason you can't open trade with Cuba now.

I wasn't justifying it. The fact is when countries were built people were killed and land taken.


...
Can't say for Germany.
...

Finally one thing to consider: You really can't apply modern "morality" towards the actions of the past.

People now say slavery was abhorant. However, jump into a time machine and the people of the time will look at you like you were nuts.
...

First point, sounds like justification to me.

(EDITED IN) Germany based nearly its entire genocide plans for Eastern Europe on the demand for "Lebensraum" (living space). I consider this wrong and its in the past to. It is somewhat similar to American settlement of the West.

I think you can apply modern morality to actions of the past, especially if it only has been perhaps one or two hundred years in the past.

People back then said slavery was abhorrent. The entire incidents of "Bloody Kansas" were based on slavers and anti-slavers butchering eachother.

Looks like you missed the Asian concentration camps in the U.S. during WWII though :D

Yes, every government does some crappy stuff. Don't even get me started on how I feel about Singapore's penal system... canings?? Sheesh! The problem I have with your post is that you seem to start from the position that we ought to be ashamed of working in our own "self-interest." Don't you? Don't you wake up every morning and try to do what's best for yourself? If you don't, it's you who should be ashamed.

Damn I missed the camps! Shame on me especially since an ex-girlfriends grandparents were in them!

Didn't mention some of their laws as I was going to be nice!

Rather tough law system. You get the visitors card and in big bold letters on top.

DRUG TRAFFICING MEANS DEATH!

Overall I liked Singapore!

Yes.

Its all true.

There are some things you point out that are just not accurate though.
Blaming the people of America for what our elected leaders do, really isnt fair.
Becuase, we really dont have any say in the government, other than who we vote for.
Whatever those people do in office, they do AFTER we elect them.
The average civillian cant do anything about what the president does, no matter how wrong it is.

Except talk about it anywhere in the country he wants to.

Yes.
Our leaders do some really nasty things, and the reality is that most of Americans have no idea what has gone on in our names.
Ignorance is bliss.

This is also wrong:


No.
Most Americans dont care about Israel one way or another.
There isnt really any sense of nostalgia there, its just a place "with crazy people who cant live peacefully" to us.

Our Government likes Israel because they like our money, and guns.
They also have some good technologies to buy.
Mostly we like them, becuase they let us have military bases there.
Soon, the middle east is going to be a bad bad place to be.
Its inevitable, the middle east will be in a big big war someday.
Thats why its nice to have heavily armed freinds there.
Freinds that live close by lots of oil.

Its all about money.

i think you need to do a little more reserch on this. like what happend to most of the territory that was to be palistine. hint jorden now has it

First point, sounds like justification to me.

I think you can apply modern morality to actions of the past, especially if it only has been perhaps one or two hundred years in the past.

People back then said slavery was abhorrent. The entire incidents of "Bloody Kansas" were based on slavers and anti-slavers butchering eachother.

Well first point is what it is. It was the tudes of the day. If we lived back then we probably would not have the views we hav enow.

As to the time machine comment. Sorry I was refering to another argument elsewhere. Timeline was meant to be the Revolutinary period. I routinely heard that Jefferson should be dispised because he had slaves.

Do you people know ANYTHING about the cuban missile crisis, or namely who started it?

Missiles were moved to cuba after the US put Jupiter Intermediate Range Ballistic Missile stations in Turkey, directly bordering several parts of the USSR. Now, the Soviets lacked the technology to create ICBMs, but they did have the shorter range MRBMs. The problem is, obviously, that these missiles could in no way reach the US from the USSR. The solution? Cuba. This was a smart move for the Soviets, since most of the US warning systems were targeted at Russia, meaning an attack from Cuba would go unnoticed.

Now that you've learned a bit about your own history, let me tell you something else you may not have figured out yet... THIS WAS OVER 40 YEARS AGO! CUBA DOESN'T HAVE SOVIET MISSILES ANYMORE!

THere is no good reason you can't open trade with Cuba now.

Ugg tired. Redited....

You left of the Soviets were making some rather nice gestures at Europe as well as well as Turkey.

The Missiles go their attention. By the time of Cuba, they were crap.

Finally as to the embargo. As I said many people think its time to end it.....

Well first point is what it is. It was the tudes of the day. If we lived back then we probably would not have the views we hav enow.

As to the time machine comment. Sorry I was refering to another argument elsewhere. Timeline was meant to be the Revolutinary period. I routinely heard that Jefferson should be dispised because he had slaves.
Well, back in the revolutionary period, the British had already outlawed slavery and were abhorred by the fact that Americans still had them. They made an effort to free any slaves that they got their hands on.

Did you type all that using the forums, or type it up on your computer and then copy it in, I can't imagine typing that much in one go, it makes my brain hurt.
But anyways, a point by point rebuttal of sorts:

1) The use of chemical weapons and the slaying of civilians is really nasty stuff, yet they were necessary weapons against ruthless geurillas. Further, the idea of laws in war is, in fact, just an excuse to execute the losers after they've surrendered and then allow who ever is strongest to squeezze a bit of moolah out of the whole thing. Also, the Vietnamese inflicted horrible tortures upon those americans who were captured alive, so both sides were far from innocent. Its war, and war isn't fun. The Vietnamese had to hand over the bodies as it was their turf (they went to war to have it) on which the bodies were located, and, last I checked, not a fugging lot of Vietnamese corpses were smuggled on to U.S. territories. Finally, it is not the role of the U.S. leaders to be concerned with the lives or interests of other nations and/or their peoples. IMHO, all leaders should evaluate the value of lives along the lines of 1 of my citizens=19,999 of someone elses, no president of the U.S. was elected by or for the Vietnamese peoples. Just as the British prime ministers were never held to the ideals of the Japanese.

2) Er, can't really defend there. Mainly because I'm not up to scratch on the Chile state of affairs. Boo on me.

3) The embargo on Cuba is, in part, a result of the fact that Cuba went with the Soviet Union, causing such wonderful events as the Cuban Missile Crisis. This results in the standard issue bad blood being developed. Further, it is harder to ignore your nextdoor neighbour than it is the jerk on the other side of the world. Why do Ssians care more about Cubans than about Saudis anyway? China, I can see, but the Saudis? Anyway, the Saudis provide oil, as you mentioned, which is more valuable than goild in a developed/industrialized nation. Also, China is filled with people who make cheap crap, and if we don't get it from them, where will it come from?

4) That is a trend being turned around. Bill Clinton gave the Chinese a whole lot in their goody bags, because of the contributions made to the Clinton campaigns. George Bush is trying to work with the Taiwanese (That is a word right, right!?) to hold off the Chinese. And, so what if the U.S. is out to make money, thats life. Everyone in the world seeks money and power, we're human, its what we do. China is also turning around somewhat and gradually following the course of the U.S.S.R.

5) Israel is not, in fact, the spawn of satan. Primus, a short list of facts:

No such things as Palestenians (The land that is now claimed by the "Palestenians" was formerly held by Egypt and other mid-east countries.)
Israel gained the West Bank, Gaza Strip, etc. After the Seven Days War in which they were sorely outnumbered, outgunned, and assaulted by the Arab States
Israel is the only true democracy in the Middle East
The disputed lands were seized as a buffer zone and are also strategic military points, in case of a repeat of The Seven Days War

Further, there is no "slave colony," the Israelis would just as soon the west bank was deserted by the Palestenians. Finally, Israeli actions are in self-defense. Militant Muslim groups kill Israelis, hurling their own bodies at the enemy. In response Israelis have to develop some unsavory methods of self-defense (Such as security checkpoints, assassination of dangerous leaders, etc.). However, Israel has never advocated the slaying of civies, a show of great restraint when you consider the hell they're trapped in. I can't really theorize much about the lack of American Heritage, except to say that most Americans I know are plenty happy with their own culture.

I'll stop my point-by-point analysis for now, though, given a day or so to recover, I'll probably continue.


for the most part i have to agree on this. other parts like israel is part of histroy that any one can find if they care to have facts instead of conjecture and false hoods. i can rember the last war isreal had. but most of what happend is no longer talked about

(EDITED IN) Germany based nearly its entire genocide plans for Eastern Europe on the demand for "Lebensraum" (living space). I consider this wrong and its in the past to. It is somewhat similar to American settlement of the West.


Wasn't referning to Nazi Germany. I meant when it became Germany from all the principalities....

Umm No..

Its called Genocide.

There were over six million native americans before we got here.

Now..less than 600,000.

Maybe you remember Andrew Jackson?
The President?

"The only good indian is a dead one, and Im dedicated to the idea of a lot of dead indians"
-A.J

I didn't say it wasn't.

Fact is: If we didn't, then we would not be where we are.

Doesn't make it right but it happened....

Wasn't referning to Nazi Germany. I meant when it became Germany from all the principalities....
Germany didn't return to becoming Germany until after the 1870s, when the Prussians united the German principalities. Before that, the Holy Roman Empire was the only German state in existence, and that evolved from the Eastern half of the Frankish Kindgdom.
(ADDED)
Plus, just because you weren't referring to it doesn't mean that there's no similarities, though the holocaust was definitely more brutal.

Originally Posted by Featherstrip:
Looks like you missed the Asian concentration camps in the U.S. during WWII though

Yes, every government does some crappy stuff. Don't even get me started on how I feel about Singapore's penal system... canings?? Sheesh! The problem I have with your post is that you seem to start from the position that we ought to be ashamed of working in our own "self-interest." Don't you? Don't you wake up every morning and try to do what's best for yourself? If you don't, it's you who should be ashamed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I work and make decisions based on my self-interests and the interests of my family and friends,yes.I do that everyday.So does any other human.

However,I do not do it to an extent that we hurt others.I take issue with the methods that the USA uses to ensure its self-interests,to the extent that it costs so much to other countries in many areas.

I learn about compromise and accomodation,you get some of what you want,you protect your interests,you protect the common welfare and you manage to accomodate most without having people killed of hurt.

I don't hate the USA, I do hate the current administration and have disliked some other administrations of the past. However, few could argue with your historical facts.

Well done!

I don't hate the USA, I do hate the current administration and have disliked some other administrations of the past. However, few could argue with your historical facts.

Well done!
i hate the usa, mainly because its full of self righteous idiots who beleive they are right because of their religion and beleive they can override the very basis of our country if they so please

I will just post this. Every world super power has citizens that go "we are the best" If you look at many russian players that play nationstats or if you have ever gone to RFF you know that the Russian players here all think Russia is the best nation ever. And many people should beleive that their nation is the best, even if history says no, everyone should think this. Its called nationalism. And it just so happens that a lot of people in America are full of it. Is this a bad thing? no. every nations citizens should think this way, everyone should be proud in their nation and love it and believe that they are the best or can rise above the rest.

when it comes to the US being "war mongers" so what if we invade just for oil? so what if we want to shove democracy down other nations throats? this is what the stronger nations have been doing since th beginning of time. You dont get in a war just to help people. Thats just stupid. Your spending billions of dollars for nothing.

why do we not really care about haiti? they dont have anything good for us!

Why do we not care about liberia that much? first of all they are complete idiots who thought they could successfully start their own nation with no education. and they dont have jack squat.

Why do we care about iraq? one word. oil. They have something we need, so we go there.

No nation has ever fought just to be nice. They fight in their best interests. We either fight to aid our allies, or to get stuff for ourselves. Just like every other nation on the face of the earth.

So...so what if we want to invade someone? so what if we want to cram democracy down their throats? we are strong enough and so we shall. The Soviets did it with communism, the nazis did with Nazism. The romans enforced their beleifs. Every strong nation throughout history crams themselves down the throats of others.

-From Greater Deutschland, your friendly neighborhood American Nationalist

THere is no good reason you can't open trade with Cuba now.

sorry for the double post but....um...new russia? that reason is called communism. sorry.

So...so what if we want to invade someone? so what if we want to cram democracy down their throats? we are strong enough and so we shall. The Soviets did it with communism, the nazis did with Nazism. The romans enforced their beleifs. Every strong nation throughout history crams themselves down the throats of others.

-From Greater Deutschland, your friendly neighborhood American Nationalist

Funny, the nations you mention here fell and fell hard! :rolleyes:

well when russians say they are the best, its funny, cause you know they are russian.

when americans do it, its the egotistical crpa we get from believing we are the international police for like ohh about 80 years

I will just post this. Every world super power has citizens that go "we are the best" If you look at many russian players that play nationstats or if you have ever gone to RFF you know that the Russian players here all think Russia is the best nation ever. And many people should beleive that their nation is the best, even if history says no, everyone should think this. Its called nationalism. And it just so happens that a lot of people in America are full of it. Is this a bad thing? no. every nations citizens should think this way, everyone should be proud in their nation and love it and believe that they are the best or can rise above the rest.

when it comes to the US being "war mongers" so what if we invade just for oil? so what if we want to shove democracy down other nations throats? this is what the stronger nations have been doing since th beginning of time. You dont get in a war just to help people. Thats just stupid. Your spending billions of dollars for nothing.

why do we not really care about haiti? they dont have anything good for us!

Why do we not care about liberia that much? first of all they are complete idiots who thought they could successfully start their own nation with no education. and they dont have jack squat.

Why do we care about iraq? one word. oil. They have something we need, so we go there.

No nation has ever fought just to be nice. They fight in their best interests. We either fight to aid our allies, or to get stuff for ourselves. Just like every other nation on the face of the earth.

So...so what if we want to invade someone? so what if we want to cram democracy down their throats? we are strong enough and so we shall. The Soviets did it with communism, the nazis did with Nazism. The romans enforced their beleifs. Every strong nation throughout history crams themselves down the throats of others.

-From Greater Deutschland, your friendly neighborhood American Nationalist
One reason we should care about Liberia is because the only reason it didn't become a European colony was because the Americans went in and protected its "freedom" so they could send the African American population there.
Also, if we don't go around being nice we have no right to claim we are.
And something about nationalism:
"A patriot is someone that loves his country, a nationalist is someone that hates all others but his own."
-Johannes Rau, former Federal President of the Federal Republic of Germany

(ADDED)
The United States are also based on the concept that all men are created equal. The idea of everyone having the same rights is a counter to the idea that might makes right.

well when russians say they are the best, its funny, cause you know they are russian.

thankyou very very much Chess squares because you just proved the point I made about russians in my post.

And yes those nations did fall and fall hard. But like all great nations Russia did too. Soviet russia anyone? Anyway, Russia is finally getting back on its feet and rising again which is very very good. So glad they cut off their oil exports to georgia. Russia just cut the welfare to georgia and now the poor man(georgia) will surely die. But more wealth to mother russia :)

One reason we should care about Liberia is because the only reason it didn't become a European colony was because the Americans went in and protected its "freedom" so they could send the African American population there.

.....I still dont see a reason to protect and help those canablistic monsters over their. Africa itself is just a hell hole. Why should we spend money to stop AIDs there? You cant stop it if the person doesnt change their mentality. and as long as african villagers beleive that raping virgins gets rid of aids, there is no stopping it. They have to change their mentality and thinking before we even could help them

.....I still dont see a reason to protect and help those canablistic monsters over their. Africa itself is just a hell hole. Why should we spend money to stop AIDs there? You cant stop it if the person doesnt change their mentality. and as long as african villagers beleive that raping virgins gets rid of aids, there is no stopping it. They have to change their mentality and thinking before we even could help them
We were the ones to give them the friggin' mentality in the first place by redrawing the borders without giving a second thought to ethnic groups and destroying tribal government.

(ADDED)
We should also spend money on educating them about how AIDS can be prevented, because their governments rarely have the money, so we can change their mentality, not the other way around!

the other way around would be them changing our mentality, lol. btw.

You have a very good point there. didnt think about that. We really need to stop spending money on helping them first, because all we will do is prolong the death of aids and let them die at their average life span of 30 or 35. Very good point there that we should spend money on educating them. Although we would have to use different methods since many if not most are illetarite (sp)

We were the ones to give them the friggin' mentality in the first place by redrawing the borders without giving a second thought to ethnic groups and destroying tribal government.

The problem with the ethnic groups is the Arabs are raping the blacks for lighter skinned babies not aids. Many people in africa believe rape of a virginw ill cure them and I dont think what we did over there made it that way. You could also look at this from a moral stand point as well. but I wont get into that because then the atheists will flame me. lol.

the other way around would be them changing our mentality, lol. btw.

You have a very good point there. didnt think about that. We really need to stop spending money on helping them first, because all we will do is prolong the death of aids and let them die at their average life span of 30 or 35. Very good point there that we should spend money on educating them. Although we would have to use different methods since many if not most are illetarite (sp)
You don't need to give someone a piece of paper with pretty markings in order to convince him that screwing a virgin won't cure him of AIDS. The money should be used for programs that have employees teaching them how AIDS is really spread and how to really prevent it. And they need materials to teach with.

Although we would have to use different methods since many if not most are illetarite (sp)

did I not just say that? different methods besides writting. over here you can teach it by that way. but over there we will need interpaters to tell people, and hope that they will listen. also, not to argue but to question, what can we tell them that will make them beleive that screwing a virgin is truely bad if they already believe it is good?

The problem with the ethnic groups is the Arabs are raping the blacks for lighter skinned babies not aids.
...
Well, one of the main problems is that unlike in Europe (except maybe the Balkans) the borders of African countries are based on things Europeans could agree on (natural borders, etc...) but ethnic groups that hate each others guts are cut up and thrown into a nation with eachother. It would be like having a state in between Germany and France with a small holding in the UK for example. And this in a time when they still hated eachother (plus you have Belgians, Dutch, and Luxembourgers in between). The rulers don't want borders to shift in anyone elses favor for fear of losing control of some areas. That's why there's such trouble in the Congo. The ethnic groups occuppy the border regions between the Congo and it's neighbors, and they ignore the borders because they're related to the citizens of they're neighbor nation.
The Europeans are to blame for most of this, but the US did its part in Liberia

yes but I suppose there is nothing we can do now. the govt supports the arabs doing this and we cant really get in the middle because then theres just more suicide bombers.

did I not just say that? different methods besides writting. over here you can teach it by that way. but over there we will need interpaters to tell people, and hope that they will listen. also, not to argue but to question, what can we tell them that will make them beleive that screwing a virgin is truely bad if they already believe it is good?
All that wouldn't be too hard, plenty of people speak the languages of the former colonial power and interpreters that speak both wouldn't be too hard to find. If someone is a dedicated enough teacher, he or she would be able to get a change done (especially if you start when the students are young enough)

(ADDED)
The problem is this needs to be paid for.

yes but I suppose there is nothing we can do now. the govt supports the arabs doing this and we cant really get in the middle because then theres just more suicide bombers.
The Arab populations are mainly present in the North and North east of Africa (Marocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Egypt, Sudan, etc...) the Central Africa and the South are mainly "Black" African, not Arab African.

I am talking about Sudan and the ethnic cleansings there

Excellent piece of work.

Excellent piece of work.

????????????

????????????
By the thread starter.

ah yeah, ilham. he better remember who supported him in his first war. ;) lol.

Anyway, anyone else have anything to say? or am I just alone.

ah yeah, ilham. he better remember who supported him in his first war. ;) lol.
??????????

If it wasn't 2204 at night I would throw out the next Asian view.

The vast majority of it was one sided bull. Most of what you describe were actually helpful in the long run (e.g. the invasion of Grenada). Besides, for most of the actions you described, I feel that it had a good reason.
For example, our intervention into Central America and the Carribean in the eighties was justified, because the USSR was trying to establish a beachhead in that area. That would've threaten the US directly, something we couldn't allow. It is why an embargo on Cuba is happening: to punish Cuba for its past action, and to ensure that Cuban troops don't try to form a confederation of states in the Carribean. After the Cuban Missile Crisis, the US wasn't interested in such direct threats in the future. Looking at it that way, our actions were almost benevolent, compared to the result of inaction. Ten years down the road, we may have been forced to invade both Cuba and Mexico if we let communism grow.

Well, back in the revolutionary period, the British had already outlawed slavery and were abhorred by the fact that Americans still had them. They made an effort to free any slaves that they got their hands on.
Not true. Slavery may have been less popular by that time, but they were still used en masses in the Carribean, and the Middle Passage was hopping with slave ships. The UK didn't outlaw the slave trade until 1820, and didn't abolish slavery entirely until 1836, long after us colonists revolted.
Besides, slavery was dying during the revolution, as well. The North's climate didn't favor them, and the Southern plantations only had a few slaves they could profitably own. It wasn't until the invention of the cotton gin in 1790 that slavery really took off here.

The vast majority of it was one sided bull. Most of what you describe were actually helpful in the long run (e.g. the invasion of Grenada). Besides, for most of the actions you described, I feel that it had a good reason.
For example, our intervention into Central America and the Carribean in the eighties was justified, because the USSR was trying to establish a beachhead in that area. That would've threaten the US directly, something we couldn't allow. It is why an embargo on Cuba is happening: to punish Cuba for its past action, and to ensure that Cuban troops don't try to form a confederation of states in the Carribean. After the Cuban Missile Crisis, the US wasn't interested in such direct threats in the future. Looking at it that way, our actions were almost benevolent, compared to the result of inaction. Ten years down the road, we may have been forced to invade both Cuba and Mexico if we let communism grow.
Well, I think this should be added to the list of reasons why people hate America. The fact of the matter is just because it is right from the American point view doesn't make it right globally. America and Americans need to have a better sense of how other nations percieve us, then we'd probably be less bull-headed and arrogant and maybe at least try to explain the actions that we feel we absolutely have to do.

Well, I think this should be added to the list of reasons why people hate America. The fact of the matter is just because it is right from the American point view doesn't make it right globally. America and Americans need to have a better sense of how other nations percieve us, then we'd probably be less bull-headed and arrogant and maybe at least try to explain the actions that we feel we absolutely have to do.
This particular action was. What if we fell? After all, some of the actions described initially were those were the US refused to act.

You had some very well thought out and interesting points. However - there are some points (maybe only about 5) that were off-base. The biggest one being : The only reason US Citizens travel to other countries is to have sex.

I know many Americans who have traveled to places such as Europe, China, and Japan. None of them were there to "have sex" with their women/men. Does this happen? Yes, it does - because people will meet eachother and situations will arise. But unless it's rape, it is just as much the other persons fault than it was the "Americans." As the expression goes - it takes two to tango. Blaming that this is a move on the US to spread AIDS (a disease which was brought into the United States from California onboard a sea-fairing vessle from OTHER COUNTRIES before ours) is definately not true.

On Israel: It is unfair to say that the Israelie conflict is "one sided terrorism." I have friends that live in Israel; both Jewish and Arab - and they have a very different understanding of what is going on there. As they put it, people are very friendly - it is only a very small, select group of people that are blowing eachother up constantly. However - it is a Religious War for those who want recognition. The longest going wars are based on Religion. But the main reason we support Israel is because - they buy of equipment. Guns, Airplanes, Bombs, etc. Also, it is because of Franklin D. Rosavelt that the United Nations came about - which helped Israel to find a home. Not only is there a strageic value to the land - but they're a country that the United States along with Britian helped give birth too.

On Ireland: The US did not supply arms for the IRA. Now, several private factors within the United States did send money and help them recieve arms, but it was not the United States Government. The only support the USA gave to the IRA was medical supplies - and incentives for peace-talks. It was not a government movement - because Britian is one of the US's strongest "allies."

The Arab World: This is a touchy subject for many people. There has been times in the history of the United States that Arab nations called us up to help them in Times of Need; only to turn around and say we were descrating their Holy Land (Even though they invited us with open arms.) Then again, there are other times (Such as this current conflict) that we appear to be invaders and dictators that want to establish their government in order to give us control of their daily lives.

If I hadn't just recently woke up - I would give a more detailed annalysis. Forgive me on that one.

Upon closer inspection, btw, I wish to address #31. In the seventies, Congress passed a law mandating the metric system. Officially, we trade in metric, as the constitution gives Congress the authority to set weights and measures. It didn't work.
Indeed, there was a small strip of highway in New York State that had all signs in metric, and nothing else. In that time, the most truck accidents in state history happened. They weren't fatal, but they had a peculiar way of crashing into signs.
But I think the transition is being made. Pop is bought by the liter. Bike gears are measured in cm. And some states have on their road signs distances in metric and english units side by side. We're getting there, so don't rush it. But then again, I guess you'd be bitching up a storm if we didn't have a decimal based currency.
BTW, in the US, we don't use stones.

sorry for the double post but....um...new russia? that reason is called communism. sorry.

Canada imports many things from Cuba, why can't the US?

Black Forrest, what is your jet-setting job? so you're a self-proclaimed globe-trotting socialite who mingles with Vietnam vet's, Rwandan villagers, touring Servicemen and Taiwenese nationals? and you still can't spell for toffee! aren't you just adorable?

anyhow, i'm struck by how crude your counter-arguments are, they all resort to saying that one action isn't so bad 'coz it has occurred elsewhere in the planet - fair enough, under duress i'll accept that point, however, the fact that your response to each attrocity or detrimental statement refers to either a different continent, a different era or (as in the case of England's alleged occupation of Wales!) some fantastic history private to your good self: doesn't that seem peculiar?

doesn't it seem odd that no nation, not Libya, Cuba, Iraq or Afghanistan - nowhere, can provide a consistent counterargument as you trawl through a list of "also bads"? you know why that is?

Its because America has no consistent comparison: it is the sole hyperpower and as such has violated more sanctions, spewed more hypocrisy and wreaked more havoc than ANY other nation. Reflecting on Isbella's Spain and Hitler's Germany, not to mention Victoria's England I pause before saying 'in history' - but without hyperbole the StarWars missile defence program, climate change and preemptive strikes do seem to be the way that the world will most likely end and in all those instances voting Americans such as yourself are the only people who can stand in your supposed democracy and actually stop us all from heading towards this inevitable precipice.

its late and i ramble but in sum man, if you walked up to a guy, shot him, stole his wallet and raped his wife you can't justify it by saying that somebody else once killed somebody, somebody elsewhere steals stuff and that yet another guy would have once raped a woman given half a chance.

in Star Wars who do you think America would be? the Rebels? or the Evil Empire?

PEACE

-=K=-

What country are you from?

What country are you from?
I think the author is from Singapore.

Black Forrest, what is your jet-setting job? so you're a self-proclaimed globe-trotting socialite who mingles with Vietnam vet's, Rwandan villagers, touring Servicemen and Taiwenese nationals? and you still can't spell for toffee! aren't you just adorable


Alrighty. I am a little older then most people here. I am from a military family and I am ex-goverment(ie access to the vets). As mentioned I work with people that escaped from Viet Nam. Also, said family and friends told stories of Subic(sp) Bay and Thailand.

As for the people of Taiwan. As mentioned they are in the country and we have an office in the country.

My Rawandan friends are through my efforts to change over to Primatology. Something I picked when I was down sized in the era of the Great God Ronnie.

As to what I do? I am the WAN engineer for a multinational. The only continents we don't have offices are Australia and Africa.

As to my spelling? Whatever. I admit I am horrible at it.

*edit out*

Never mind. I am quiting the World hates Americans posts.

>>Reasons why the world hates America:An Asian view <<


Man, that is one slanted outlook.

sorry Forrest, it was late and i was feeling abrasive after reading Zinn's 'A People''s History of the United States'. there was no excuse for me patronising you. but even so man - whilst your premises are correct insofar as you may have first hand accounts that show a fuller picture of other societies, it doesn't change the fact that your conclusion is flawed:

i admit other nations do bad stuff but America seems to take the worst traits of other nations and the remarket them as a form of freedom. It is this that raises most people's ire. For example, i cant remember the exact quotes but Goebles said in defence of Nazi concentration camps 'they are the means to change non-desirable elements of our society into productive citizens or at least contain them until some further solution is realised'. Now with all the talk of re-patriation and assuring their good intentions can you not see a similarity betweent he internment of Jews during WWII and the internment of Muslims in Guantanamo bay? Especially when some of the detainees links to any purported crime seem to be that they were just in the wrong place when American GI's started pointing fingers for 9/11.

America has, does and will always only look out for the interests of American corporate security and the expansion of American market forces, their constant wars of aggression from Chile, Panama and Granada through to Vietnam and Iraq, have NEVER been about the national security of your populace as in those wars your population was never threatened they have all had some ulterior motive - usually big bucks.

(in Afghanistan and WWII you can claim that somebody else threw the first stone - although if you were to ask in the case of Afghanistan why they threw that stone i think that you might find American actions in the Middle East have not done much to endear you to the nations there-in. i.e. your unquestioning support for Israel, Israel's WMD programme and your unwavering veto of any UN vote that questions Sharon's plethora of war crimes)

anyhow man, this isn't a rant at you - its a rant at your government. I don't believe you live in a democracy, along with many others i believe that corporations call the shots in the States and the difference between Kerry and Bush in all hot topics is so neglible as to be insignificant. much like Bill Hicks said, in Europe we all find it fascinating as you head towards election what with all the pomp and circumstance when the decision that Americans have at the end of the day is 'I like the puppet on the right' as opposed to ' i like the puppet on the left'. Very few of your nationals stop to consider who's holding the strings.

Until you take control of your own government and elect officials that actually represent YOU then you're not free, you chose to live under a benevolent tyrant who has an agenda far removed from your own and i can assure you, he will never ingratiate you to nations that don't see your political system through the warped prism of American media.

PEACE

-=k=-

i admit other nations do bad stuff but America seems to take the worst traits of other nations and the remarket them as a form of freedom. It is this that raises most people's ire. For example, i cant remember the exact quotes but Goebles said in defence of Nazi concentration camps 'they are the means to change non-desirable elements of our society into productive citizens or at least contain them until some further solution is realised'. Now with all the talk of re-patriation and assuring their good intentions can you not see a similarity betweent he internment of Jews during WWII and the internment of Muslims in Guantanamo bay? Especially when some of the detainees links to any purported crime seem to be that they were just in the wrong place when American GI's started pointing fingers for 9/11.

America has, does and will always only look out for the interests of American corporate security and the expansion of American market forces, their constant wars of aggression from Chile, Panama and Granada through to Vietnam and Iraq, have NEVER been about the national security of your populace as in those wars your population was never threatened they have all had some ulterior motive - usually big bucks.

(in Afghanistan and WWII you can claim that somebody else threw the first stone - although if you were to ask in the case of Afghanistan why they threw that stone i think that you might find American actions in the Middle East have not done much to endear you to the nations there-in. i.e. your unquestioning support for Israel, Israel's WMD programme and your unwavering veto of any UN vote that questions Sharon's plethora of war crimes)

anyhow man, this isn't a rant at you - its a rant at your government. I don't believe you live in a democracy, along with many others i believe that corporations call the shots in the States and the difference between Kerry and Bush in all hot topics is so neglible as to be insignificant. much like Bill Hicks said, in Europe we all find it fascinating as you head towards election what with all the pomp and circumstance when the decision that Americans have at the end of the day is 'I like the puppet on the right' as opposed to ' i like the puppet on the left'. Very few of your nationals stop to consider who's holding the strings.

Until you take control of your own government and elect officials that actually represent YOU then you're not free, you chose to live under a benevolent tyrant who has an agenda far removed from your own and i can assure you, he will never ingratiate you to nations that don't see your political system through the warped prism of American media.

PEACE

-=k=-


Thank you for a very sane and true statement. Both major parties in the U.S. seem to be solely dedicated to the interests of large corportation (including certain religious organizations, which although supposedly non-profit, have very large incomes). I think very few people actually realize the extent that the distribution of wealth in the U.S. has become polarized over the past twenty years or so. The demonization of the poor- even the working poor- as useless people wanting handouts, people to lazy to try, people to stupid to take advantage of opportunites, etc. has made way too many people afraid or embarassed to stop and assess their actual situation. Or perhaps they are still living with the idea that they are one of the few who will be able to make it inot the ever shrinking number of people who will have sufficient financial means to live in a style that our parents took for granted.

Financial freedom is the only thing that is disappearing. Civil liberties and personal freedoms have been eroding too - only now the erosion has become blantantly visible. Somehow Americans have been tricked into believing this is necessary for security and freedom - fear of the outside has been touted so much that they cannnot see the danger that is right in front of their eyes. It seems the worse things get, the more Flag waving becomes a style of life and speaking out against the government becomes a sign that one is dangerous. Just recently a congress woman (I forget her name) was chastized for "costing American lives" for speaking out against the attrocites associated with the war in Iraq.

Politicians on both sides harp on wedge issues. Are this issues important - yes. But they are not the entire picture. However they are used a screen to hide larger issues that might upset the entire populice. The corporations- through the politicans- are slowly and surely winning the game of divide and conquer. Look at any bill that is passed and trace the money that supported that bill.

Of course the United States government doesn't play fair with other nations. It doesn't even play fair with its own people, and more and more is changing the rules of the game so that the average citizen has no chance of truly participating in the game.

As a Chinese patriot, I would tell you that most Chinese would scorn at the United States for its double-standard policy towards China.

All I can say it the US is like the Global Roman empire, much to give but then destroys so much as well. Like Romans, it too will fall like all empires.

I will tell you the main reason why people hate the US.George Bush.Alot of people hate him outside of the US.