NationStates Jolt Archive

I did a quick forum search before posting this topic. Suicide came up as a keyword in topics obviously not related to it, and there was only 1 actual suicide topic - which was a mention of someone comitting suicide. So I apologize if this issue has been addressed before.

To get to the point(s):

1) Does a human being have the right to terminate their own existence (morally, not legally)?

1a) If so, under what circumstances? And who determines these circumstances?

1b) If not, why not?

I may post my own views in a little bit, but I'm more interested in hearing the general consensus on the matter, and I don't want my viewpoints tainting people's responses.

Gravy, no replies. I'm off to play some GameCube. I shall return, hopefully to find some posts. -.-

Do humans have a right to life? I think anything you have a right to, you should also have the right to waive. If you have the right to life, you should also have the right to not have life.

Suicide is often incredibly selfish however.

I think if someone wants to commit suicide their parents should have to kill 'em.

Of course. If a person is sick of life, why should they have to go on living it? It'd be like saying a person is morally responsible to keep a job they don't like. As long as a person is willing to deal with the consequences of their actions and the pain or other inconvinience it brings to others, people should be free to do whatever they want.

While I can't say I'm a big fan of suicide, I certainly wouldn't force people to live if they didn't want to. If someone wants to commit suicide, it is probably because of some problem in their life, something that should be fixed.

I think if you want to end your own life you have full right to do so.

Heh...Y'know how in the cartoon 'Futurama' there's those suicide booths? Imagine one made by Nike!

Nike.
Just Do It.

Heh...Y'know how in the cartoon 'Futurama' there's those suicide booths? Imagine one made by Nike!

Nike.
Just Do It.

^__^;

Now, I can't help but notice 3 people voted never, but nobody seems to be explaining why... any brave soul feel up to the task?

I tend to believe what's been echoed in this thread. I don't like suicide, and I think that in most cases there is another way, but I wouldn't find it my place to demand someone live because I said so.

How's this...a death penalty for suicide attempt!

It's perfect!

i would say yes if they have an untreatable illness, but only after some hardcore counciling, for the person in question and their loved ones. having that said I had the misfortune a few years ago of witnessing the affects of a suicide, I still havnt forgiven that person but maybe if it was under different circumstances, I may have yet the person I witnessed did it publicly (at a school) to make a statement, that was the single most selfish act I have ever seen.
so im kind of torn on the subject

As long as a person is willing to deal with the consequences of their actions and the pain or other inconvinience it brings to others, people should be free to do whatever they want.

This just struck me as very funny. If the person is dead, s/he doesn't have to worry about the feelings of others, does s/he?


I'm of the opinion that the only for of suicide should be a form of euthanasia. I'm talking about terminally ill, always-in-pain sort of situation. And the only person who should decide is the person himself.

Heh...Y'know how in the cartoon 'Futurama' there's those suicide booths? Imagine one made by Nike!

Nike.
Just Do It.
There's a slogan for everything in our lives...

sex? McDonalds
furrys? KFC...(we do chicken right)
Democrats? Wienerschnitzel (liberal-weiners)

Okay, the problem with suicide is that about 99 times out of 100, the person is killing himself or herself because of either a bout of depression that would pass if given time or counseling, or because of a chemical imbalance that can be treated. In both cases, the person doesn't REALLY want to die. It just seems easier that living for a while. THese feelings are temporary and/or treatable. People can change their mind. Unfortunately, if their dead, it's a lot harder to undo. Which is why it is so important to know the difference between despair and hopelessness.

For the terminally ill, for those in constant agony, they can sanely and truly feel hopeless. Life holds nothing for them, and death is actually a release from a lifetime of suffering. With the approval of a psychiatrist to be certain the person is in full control of their faculties, I think suicide should be allowed.

Okay, the problem with suicide is that about 99 times out of 100, the person is killing himself or herself because of either a bout of depression that would pass if given time or counseling, or because of a chemical imbalance that can be treated. In both cases, the person doesn't REALLY want to die. It just seems easier that living for a while. THese feelings are temporary and/or treatable. People can change their mind. Unfortunately, if their dead, it's a lot harder to undo. Which is why it is so important to know the difference between despair and hopelessness.

For the terminally ill, for those in constant agony, they can sanely and truly feel hopeless. Life holds nothing for them, and death is actually a release from a lifetime of suffering. With the approval of a psychiatrist to be certain the person is in full control of their faculties, I think suicide should be allowed.
Right on.

I used to, and I suppose, always will dealt with depression.
Long Term Major Clinical Depression.

Ive seen suicide up close.
Its not pretty, especially beucase its always a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

For me, I got a dog.
(He's still around, and sleeping under the desk right now.)
The fact that I had someone to be glad to see me, and of course, a dog's natural unconditional love,along with some medication, was enough to help me get through it.

These days, I dont even need the meds.

Euthanasia is a different scenario, ansd often is used to ease the suffering of a terminally ill patient, whos every waking moment is misery.

But suicide is generally just a waste.

Only Euthanasia.

This is comming from someone who used to try to commit suicide ;). **shrugs** When life is shit, sometimes the brain makes really bad decisions. People shouldn't have to pay their whole life for one mistake. Loved ones should especially not have to pay for someone else's one mistake.

Someone mentioned that nobody who said "no" on the poll had spoken up. Well here is one. Being a person who has considered suicide, on more than one occassion, I feel that I have a viewpoint from the inside.
As Backwoodsquatch said previously, clinical depression is one of the areas where you will find many who have contemplated or attempted suicide. This is a condition I have in common with him. For me it took many different tries at various meds before we found one that worked even partially. I currently take three different meds to treat this condition.
If I had seen this thread, when I was at my worst, I would have voted a strong "yes" as I felt like life had nothing left to offer me.
As I am now back in control of my thinking, I can not disagree more strongly. A simple way to put this and one I hope that all can understand: There is nothing in life worth taking your own life for.
Even in the case of the terminally ill. My own father was a victim of cancer. When they classified him as a terminal case, he told us all that he could live with the pain and the discomfort. He would deal with it so as to have as much time with his loved ones as God and Nature would allow.
They kept him on very high levels of pain medication towards the end of his life. Levels high enough to kill a person who had not built up an ammunity to those types of meds. Never once did he waiver from his words.

Okay, the problem with suicide is that about 99 times out of 100, the person is killing himself or herself because of either a bout of depression that would pass if given time or counseling, or because of a chemical imbalance that can be treated. In both cases, the person doesn't REALLY want to die. It just seems easier that living for a while. THese feelings are temporary and/or treatable. People can change their mind. Unfortunately, if their dead, it's a lot harder to undo. Which is why it is so important to know the difference between despair and hopelessness.

For the terminally ill, for those in constant agony, they can sanely and truly feel hopeless. Life holds nothing for them, and death is actually a release from a lifetime of suffering. With the approval of a psychiatrist to be certain the person is in full control of their faculties, I think suicide should be allowed.

Fair enough, those are valid reasons. Let's run with that for a moment. You mention that the vast majority of the time, suicide isn't being done for a reason that's really important in the long run.

So we have some guy, and he wants to commit suicide. How do we determine if he can or not? Obviously we've just decided he isn't in a fit mental state to decide himself.

Who gets to make the call if he lives or dies? On what do they base their decisions? Furthermore, what right does another human being have to judge the hardship of a suicidal person, and tell them "Nope, not a good enough reason"? How can we expect a complete stranger to accurately determine, by an unbiased set of standards, how complete the suicidal person's suffering is? And what if they are wrong in their decision, if they make a mistake?

I'm not trying to attack you, just pointing out the many issues which are left unaddressed by saying suicide shouldn't be generally accepted.

I think that some people should be more active in Darwinism and commit suicide...

Fair enough, those are valid reasons. Let's run with that for a moment. You mention that the vast majority of the time, suicide isn't being done for a reason that's really important in the long run.

So we have some guy, and he wants to commit suicide. How do we determine if he can or not? Obviously we've just decided he isn't in a fit mental state to decide himself.

Who gets to make the call if he lives or dies? On what do they base their decisions? Furthermore, what right does another human being have to judge the hardship of a suicidal person, and tell them "Nope, not a good enough reason"? How can we expect a complete stranger to accurately determine, by an unbiased set of standards, how complete the suicidal person's suffering is? And what if they are wrong in their decision, if they make a mistake?

I'm not trying to attack you, just pointing out the many issues which are left unaddressed by saying suicide shouldn't be generally accepted.

Well, this is tricky stuff.

But we aren't talking about locking someone away in a funny farm. Or determining whether you are fit to raise your children. Which are equally important decisions that have to be made by others. These decisions can be reversed or second-guessed. Death can't be. So if some doctors err on the side of caution, can that really make us uncomfortable?

Yes, life is a right, not a duty.
Off course, it should be discouraged as much as possible.

Well, this is tricky stuff.

But we aren't talking about locking someone away in a funny farm. Or determining whether you are fit to raise your children. Which are equally important decisions that have to be made by others. These decisions can be reversed or second-guessed. Death can't be. So if some doctors err on the side of caution, can that really make us uncomfortable?

That depends on which side of the issue you're on. If you are someone who really wouldn't want to die, then sure, it can only be good for you. But if you're someone who really does want to die, it's the equivalent of being forced to stay in a living hell. That's a pretty big risk in itself.

I don't have the answer of course. I just have the questions. ^_^;

That depends on which side of the issue you're on. If you are someone who really wouldn't want to die, then sure, it can only be good for you. But if you're someone who really does want to die, it's the equivalent of being forced to stay in a living hell. That's a pretty big risk in itself.

I don't have the answer of course. I just have the questions. ^_^;

True enough. But the question of whether or not someone should die will eventually sort itself out. :D

Suicide. Rhymes with homicide, genocide, patricide ... the murder of se ipsum (latin) oneself. Murder of any sort has never been acceptable, so why this exception?

They say in Spanish: God always forgives, man sometimes forgives, Nature never forgives. Cut off your arm, and your not a starfish, it isn't going to grow back. Same for your neck. In other words, the choice of commiting suicide is a fundamental, non-refundable decision.

Unfortunately we don't have anyone experienced in the matter who can say, "I am a survivor, yeah it's great!" the only survivors are the ones who walk away from it, and perhaps you've read the post of one of them.

The one post of the 99 out of a 100 are just temporarily sad make a good point. The one who argues him on the grounds of absolute relativity questioning the majority's ability to say this or that person is depressed is silly. Absolute relativity is ridiculous and fills todays society with straw arguments.

I would argue from this perspective. Everyone's read Shakespeare, right? Hamlet, second perhaps only to Achilles as the world's greatest tragic hero, himself ponders suicide as an option out to his miserable situation. His thoughts and final decision on it are caught in the famous speech, to be or not to be. Why didn't Hamlet commit suicide? He didn't want to venture into something he knew nothing about - death, the afterlife. He had no idea that it would be any better than his present situation. And that is a very good point. Who says life is any better by committing suicide? what guarantee is there that it gets better?

It seems that suicide is an escape. Without being to harsh, it seems somewhat weak to take the easier path. In life we are always told to do our best, be all that we can be, and make the most of our lives. Why after a hard's day work would I want to end on that note. Why would I want to quit in the last minute of the game. I feel that such an ending would tarnish my life and my honor.

One other thing, there is a difference between the suicide practiced by the Ancient Romans and the Japanese, and that termed "euthanasia." I was arguing against the latter, not the former, for they differ signicantly in form and purpose.

[sigh]

Where to even begin with this.

Suicide. Rhymes with homicide, genocide, patricide ... the murder of se ipsum (latin) oneself. Murder of any sort has never been acceptable, so why this exception?

War. Police shootings. The death penaly.

They say in Spanish: God always forgives, man sometimes forgives, Nature never forgives. Cut off your arm, and your not a starfish, it isn't going to grow back. Same for your neck. In other words, the choice of commiting suicide is a fundamental, non-refundable decision.

Their decision to make, not yours.

The one post of the 99 out of a 100 are just temporarily sad make a good point. The one who argues him on the grounds of absolute relativity questioning the majority's ability to say this or that person is depressed is silly. Absolute relativity is ridiculous and fills todays society with straw arguments.

Assuming to know how intense the suffering of another human being is, and whether that is worthy of them continuing with life, is utterly arrogant and disgusting. You are not God, and you are not all-knowing. Do not think for one moment you have the ability to determine who should live or die. You don't.

I would argue from this perspective. Everyone's read Shakespeare, right? Hamlet, second perhaps only to Achilles as the world's greatest tragic hero, himself ponders suicide as an option out to his miserable situation. His thoughts and final decision on it are caught in the famous speech, to be or not to be. Why didn't Hamlet commit suicide? He didn't want to venture into something he knew nothing about - death, the afterlife. He had no idea that it would be any better than his present situation. And that is a very good point. Who says life is any better by committing suicide? what guarantee is there that it gets better?

The guy allowed fear to prevent him from making a decision, fear of the unknown. He feared what lied beyond death, so he chose not to die. How does that in any way prove anything?

Nobody is forcing you to walk in to death. If they choose they are ready, then so be it. Just as Hamlet had the right to choose not to die, they have the right to disagree.

It seems that suicide is an escape. Without being to harsh, it seems somewhat weak to take the easier path. In life we are always told to do our best, be all that we can be, and make the most of our lives. Why after a hard's day work would I want to end on that note. Why would I want to quit in the last minute of the game. I feel that such an ending would tarnish my life and my honor.

Then don't. Nobody is making suicide compulsory. I don't eat brocolli, but I don't demand nobody else does either.

Sorry, try again.

I am another 1 that voted No because suicide is never the answer. It is also a completle waste and if you think about it how many billions of organisms have died to make you? you carry bits of all of them with u as DNA. When committing suicide you are therfore not only wasting your own life but billions who came before. I'll stop now i seem to be rambling....

^__^;
I don't like suicide, and I think that in most cases there is another way, but I wouldn't find it my place to demand someone live because I said so.

I agree on that. So I'll vote "other", and that would be when there doesn't seem to be another way out. But then again, cxommiting suicide prolly is because the person doesn't see another way out in the first place... Hum, hard ;)

Ok, then let me try again.

Before I throw out more arguments, let me ask you if it is reasonable to make choices based on fear. Fear plays a part with our natural instinct to survive. Curious to mention the will to survive, a natural instinct, in a talk about suicide, where it is sort of suppressed. It would make suicide seem an unnatural act. Fear of wild animals - danger of being eaten; fear of heights, fear of falling and dying, etc. Fear is a feeling, a human feeling, nothing wrong in and of itself, something that corresponds to prudence. Hamlet's decision was prudent, not cowardly.

oh, and war, police shootings, etc. So those are ok too? It didn't seem clear what you were trying to say. If you want me to spell it out for you, there is a difference between fighting for your country, self-defense, murder and suicide. They all serve different intentions and purposes. The generalized purpose of the first two is self-preservation. The last two serve the opposite purpose.

As for deciding whether some one is suffering enough or not, few things are more painful than cancer, and how many people carried out the last years of their lives with this awful condition. Suffering is something that make us noble as human beings, it is what distinguishes us from animals. Suffering is a taboo word in our society, esp. in America, where we seek every comfort.

Again, there are options other than suicide: alleviation of pains, treatments and medicine, and most importantly, love and care. I sincerely doubt that anyone who is dearly loved by their family and friends would just want to leave them. And then these poor, unfortunate people who have no one to care for them, who are locked away in nursing homes and hospitals with no one to send them letters, to call on the phone, etc., suffering extremely; I don't blame them if they feel life sucks. But then to say, ok, sure, I'll get rid of you for you; that is so inhumane, mechanic. I think the better option would be to comfort and solace these people in their last days of their lives, particularly those who owe them the gift of life.

you see, it is not that I do not feel sympathy for these people or want them to suffer, but suicide seems like a poor option for them.

but it's cheaper right? cheaper to send them off, and we can save our time for more important things, like ourselves. This "euthanasia" is hallmark of the selfishness and coldness that wealth and capitalism foment.

how's that?

As was stated earlier this is a difficult question and it is my belief that no one other than the person who is about to take the plunge (no pun intended ect ect.) can really say. In many cases it is some temporary thing that will get better but that doesn't mean a thing because you don't have to live with said temporary thing. No one who is outside, in any way, the situation of the person contemplating death can really say if he should or should not be stopped.

I leave you with my belief. I think that it should be legal and accepted in all cases, in all situations, and in all circumstances. This may be a waste of a human life, or it may not. It is all a matter of your opinion.

Don't try to prove a counter point to this, please, I'll tell you right now that unless your argument is utterly brilliant I won't accept it and even then... I am a logical person and I accept that most people disagree and have very good reasons for disagreeing but my opinion is just that and it is one I hold dearly.

Ok, then let me try again.

Before I throw out more arguments, let me ask you if it is reasonable to make choices based on fear. Fear plays a part with our natural instinct to survive. Curious to mention the will to survive, a natural instinct, in a talk about suicide, where it is sort of suppressed. It would make suicide seem an unnatural act. Fear of wild animals - danger of being eaten; fear of heights, fear of falling and dying, etc. Fear is a feeling, a human feeling, nothing wrong in and of itself, something that corresponds to prudence. Hamlet's decision was prudent, not cowardly.

oh, and war, police shootings, etc. So those are ok too? It didn't seem clear what you were trying to say. If you want me to spell it out for you, there is a difference between fighting for your country, self-defense, murder and suicide. They all serve different intentions and purposes. The generalized purpose of the first two is self-preservation. The last two serve the opposite purpose.

As for deciding whether some one is suffering enough or not, few things are more painful than cancer, and how many people carried out the last years of their lives with this awful condition. Suffering is something that make us noble as human beings, it is what distinguishes us from animals. Suffering is a taboo word in our society, esp. in America, where we seek every comfort.

Again, there are options other than suicide: alleviation of pains, treatments and medicine, and most importantly, love and care. I sincerely doubt that anyone who is dearly loved by their family and friends would just want to leave them. And then these poor, unfortunate people who have no one to care for them, who are locked away in nursing homes and hospitals with no one to send them letters, to call on the phone, etc., suffering extremely; I don't blame them if they feel life sucks. But then to say, ok, sure, I'll get rid of you for you; that is so inhumane, mechanic. I think the better option would be to comfort and solace these people in their last days of their lives, particularly those who owe them the gift of life.

you see, it is not that I do not feel sympathy for these people or want them to suffer, but suicide seems like a poor option for them.

but it's cheaper right? cheaper to send them off, and we can save our time for more important things, like ourselves. This "euthanasia" is hallmark of the selfishness and coldness that wealth and capitalism foment.

how's that?

euthanasia is legal were i live. euthanasia is NOT about reducing the cost of threating people that will die eventually, it's about not forcing someone to live out his live in pain. it's not mandatory remember. Noone can force another human to be euthanised, but on the other hand i feel that noone can force another human to live out the last few months of his live in agonising pain. In my country, before euthanasia became legal, a lot of people would never go to a christian hospital when they had cancer because they just let you die in those hospitals (dying of cancer often means it spreads, gets into your lungs and then it takes a few months for you to sufficate; i don't see the humanity in letting someone sufficate over a few months) whereas in other hospitals someone could get euthanised illegally.

I myself find life itself useless and meaningless; we are not here for a reason, we just are and we have to live with it. As long as i find it worth living i'll live. When i'm old and not capable of taking care of myself, it will still be worth living to me i guess as long as my mind still performs well enough as my mind is my greatest asset. If ever my mind would start to deteriorate i would surely start thinking about buying a lot of heroine and put an end to it. This will be my decision. I will not tolerate someone else to decide on that for me.

Ok, then let me try again.

Before I throw out more arguments, let me ask you if it is reasonable to make choices based on fear. Fear plays a part with our natural instinct to survive. Curious to mention the will to survive, a natural instinct, in a talk about suicide, where it is sort of suppressed. It would make suicide seem an unnatural act. Fear of wild animals - danger of being eaten; fear of heights, fear of falling and dying, etc. Fear is a feeling, a human feeling, nothing wrong in and of itself, something that corresponds to prudence. Hamlet's decision was prudent, not cowardly.

What if people are afraid of living any longer?

oh, and war, police shootings, etc. So those are ok too? It didn't seem clear what you were trying to say. If you want me to spell it out for you, there is a difference between fighting for your country, self-defense, murder and suicide. They all serve different intentions and purposes. The generalized purpose of the first two is self-preservation. The last two serve the opposite purpose.

People commit suicide when they feel it's the best way out of their situation.
The fact that, in the long run, this often is not the case does not change this.

As for deciding whether some one is suffering enough or not, few things are more painful than cancer, and how many people carried out the last years of their lives with this awful condition. Suffering is something that make us noble as human beings, it is what distinguishes us from animals. Suffering is a taboo word in our society, esp. in America, where we seek every comfort.

Funny, here I was thinking suicide was a human trait. I don't see animals killing themselves because they feel they have no other options, or because they're in pain.
What makes us human is our ability to say 'enough is enough.'.

Again, there are options other than suicide: alleviation of pains, treatments and medicine, and most importantly, love and care.

Always? All the time? You'd better be pretty damn sure.

I sincerely doubt that anyone who is dearly loved by their family and friends would just want to leave them.

I don't think many people who commit suicide think they have family and friends who dearly love them.

And then these poor, unfortunate people who have no one to care for them, who are locked away in nursing homes and hospitals with no one to send them letters, to call on the phone, etc., suffering extremely; I don't blame them if they feel life sucks. But then to say, ok, sure, I'll get rid of you for you; that is so inhumane, mechanic.

'I'll get rid of you'? I doubt anyone would say that. Anyone sane anyway.
And I say forcing people to continue living is inhumane and mechanic.

"Please kill me, end my suffering."
"I am sorry. I cannot do that Dave."
"Please, I am in pain."
"Would you like some medication?"
"What good will that do? I have only 5 more days to live anyway."
"And here at Tri-Optimum, we pride ourselves in keeping you alive as long as possible. Would you like some medication?"
"I don't want to keep living like this. Please pull the plug."
"I am afraid I am not programmed to do that. Would you like some medication?"

I think the better option would be to comfort and solace these people in their last days of their lives, particularly those who owe them the gift of life.

And if they don't *want* that? What if they would find comfort in dying now, and sparing themselves a lot of pain, and their loved ones the sight and despair of watching their beloved grandfather withering away in his bed, in constant pain and agony?

you see, it is not that I do not feel sympathy for these people or want them to suffer, but suicide seems like a poor option for them.

For whom? Grandpa?
No, I think you're confusing suicide and euthenesia.

but it's cheaper right? cheaper to send them off, and we can save our time for more important things, like ourselves. This "euthanasia" is hallmark of the selfishness and coldness that wealth and capitalism foment.

how's that?

Is that the only reason for euthenesia you can think of? Honestly? true to whatever divine being (if any) you worship?

I was suicidal as recently as a couple of months. I tried to overdose on painkillers (with a codein base... luckily - or not - I ended up getting the ones with an Ibuprofen base instead, due to not reading the fine print).

You can say "it's selfish"... that just reinforces the feelings that no one has any empathy for suffering... And the idea that it's selfish because of how *other* people will feel... well, I'm sorry, but when I slip into suicidal moods, it's because I feel like there's no one around who will care if I'm dead. Not a pleasant state of mind, and one were I certainly don't think anyone will be hurt by my actions.

People can say "Oh, I agree if they're in pain". These people come across sounding like they have no experience with people, or suicide. Mental pain is just as bad, if not worse, than physical pain (try waking up unable to breathe because of pain... not fun), and there's no reliable way for anyone to judge it. So Euthanasia only for physical pain isn't a solution.

I don't 'support' suicide, but I'd never judge someone for taking their own life. If they do, it's either a flaw of genetics or environment. It's one reason I think people should need to take courses before breeding (I'm screwed because of my relationship with my parents), and that VCE (In Australian terms) should be split again - currently it's two years for four units; I think it should be three years, the 1st one being units 1 and 2, then units 3 and 4 having a year each. That won't make sense to many... basically it's about reducing immediate stressors.

I don't know. I never understood all the stuff about 'suicide is a permenant solution to a temporary problem'. What about clinical depression? That's *not* a temporary problem. And the only other 'solution' is being doped to your eyeballs... personally, I'd *rather* die.

Currently though, I'm going through a fairly level patch, so you don't have to worry about my welfare for the moment anyway (not even as little as I'm sure some would)

I voted never on the poll.

For the most part, it's a very permanent solution to a fairly temporary problem. I've known people who've contemplated it from just being bullied at school. Not only is school only about 1/2 the day, but it only lasts for a few years before you go to a new school with new people. Or get out of school.

Now for the terminally ill, I support euthenasia (ugh, it's late and that doesn't look right) if they're suffering and have absolutely no hope at all.

have you heard of 'long term psychological effects'?

Just because you get out of school doesn't mean things just 'stop hurting'.

I think suicide is taking the cowardly way out in situations of mental anguish. That being said, I've never been so consumed by my own self destructive thoughts that I've believed suicide is the only option to end my torment, so I've been lucky in that respect.

In situations where one has a terminal illness or something similar, IMHO, suicide is 100% justified. I would hate to exist and slowly feel my body and mind failing on me as the days progressed.

ahahahahahaha. 'Cowardly way out'. Yeah, because it's so *incredibly easy* to get your body to die, and we all know that people with psychiatric disorders (like chronic depression) give lots of rational, logical thought to things.

I don't see animals killing themselves. There are many documented cases of animals being kept in captivity that commited suicide. Many of the dolphins that played 'Flipper' (yes, there were many), stopped eating and became listless due to captivity, and one of them caused himself serious injury from swimming head first into walls.

So suicide does occur in animals.

'Cowardly way out'. Yeah, because it's so *incredibly easy* to get your body to die, and we all know that people with psychiatric disorders (like chronic depression) give lots of rational, logical thought to things.

Notice I said in cases of mental ANGUISH, not illness. Mental illness is something else entirely, maybe I didn't phrase that as well as I should have.

And the cowardly comment was not said in regard to the physical act of suicide. I can't bring myself to prick my finger with a sewing needle intentionally, so I can't imagine how desperate you would have to be to cause your body so much pain it dies.

Mental aguish *comes* as a result of the illness in most cases. Serious depression occurs in roughly 1 in 4 people in Australia (where I am), so I doubt anyone killing themselves is in a stable state of mind

I am a fairly religious person and believe that morally, no one should ever commit suicide. I know people that have attempted suicide before and I agree wtih others that it is a very very selfish thing. I know these people very well and if they did die....There would be lots and lots of people mourning their loss as that person stares up from hell. I dont feel like getting in an arguement about this and wont respond if someone tries it. that is how I feel Morally and wont argue the point.

How does anyone have the right to say what you can or cannot do with you're life? Whether Suicide was the right path depends on the circumstances, and can only be judged in retrospect, by other people. So you cannot know what that person was feeling - had we been in that situation, maybe we would have come to the same conclusion that suicide was the best way out. I've no doubt that if i were immobile and in extreme pain, waiting to die, i'd be doing everything i could to speed up the process (unless of course there was something worth prolonging my existence, such as family). Maybe suicide is the 'weak' option, but why should life be so damn hard?

I some cases, I think suicide should be mandatory ...

Tree hugging filthy hippies
Crystal hugging Sylvia Browne worshippers
Anyone who says, "ABBA's not so bad"
The Bush family
Televangelists and the people who send them money
People who think 70s clothing is "cool"
Anyone who thinks Kate Hudson "has potential as an actress"
Mormons
Anyone involved with the SCA

I could go on all day ...

'madatory suicide' isn't suicide... it's murder (since someone has to be regulating it). So that's a pretty silly stand to take.

And I hope that all the people claiming that suicide is selfish go out of there way, at all times, to support their friends. If one of them kills themselves, it's because they felt no one was supporting them, including you. So be careful how you judge.

There are many documented cases of animals being kept in captivity that commited suicide. Many of the dolphins that played 'Flipper' (yes, there were many), stopped eating and became listless due to captivity, and one of them caused himself serious injury from swimming head first into walls.

So suicide does occur in animals.

Did they stop eating and shash themselves against the wall because they desired to end their lifes? Or did they because they were depressed, confused and desperate?

I voted "yes, always", because it's a personal choice - yes it effects many other people but so did any number of other decisions I've made today. Personally, I can't forsee it ever being something I'd consider because I'm a coward and I've got this "everything'll turn out alright" thing going on.

Calling suicide cowardly is a massively arrogant comment, in my opinion.

Voted other because I neither condone nor advocate suicide, but believe it is a personal decision. Me? Yeah, I'm waiting until the day I can end my life, but since I honour commitments I've made above my own peace of mind, then I ain't gonna be going anywhere until all my commitments're over, be that 10 days or 50 years - the day I have no more commitments is the day I go.

So no, that's not being selfish, and it's not being depressed, it's just not wanting to be here.

1) Does a human being have the right to terminate their own existence (morally, not legally)?

Of course, you have free will use it

1a) If so, under what circumstances? And who determines these circumstances?
Any, the individual and in the case they incapacitated those who they have entrusted with that choice.

I don't understand why we work so hard to save those who try to kill them selves, i say let them because either
A) they are trying to get attention and this will teach them a lesson
B) They really want to die so let them

Everyone has the right to terminate their own life...but it doesn't mean, in my opinion, they should..

As for the reasons, I'd like to think there's none, but...I can and do understand why someone would be moved to do such a thing, because of intense trauma, mental or emotional.

I've lost a lot of friends to suicide, so I promised myself and others, no matter how bad things got, I'd never do that, and I've had some close calls..but now..I'm rather glad I'm alive.

Where do u get the idea that we have the right to kill ourselves? I never read that before. If we were the cause of our existence, then as such as agent cause with purpose, and supposing formal and material causes, you could say we have the right to end our existence. But we did not create ourselves.

Maybe our parents, and they probably wanted to a thousands times, but that's not suicide, that's filiacide or something.

Secondly, if we have free will we're just allowed to use it indiscriminately? That can go a long way. That's also an abuse of what Descartes intended when he argued the definition of free will. Free will is supposed to be guided by our second and higher faculty, reasoning/intellect. The intellect is supposed to discern what is true and just, the free will is supposed to choose it.

Most of the arguments in favor of suicide are based on opinions, subjectivity, and feelings. As such, they fail as reasons to exercise free will in that direction.

Where do u get the idea that we have the right to kill ourselves? I never read that before. If we were the cause of our existence, then as such as agent cause with purpose, and supposing formal and material causes, you could say we have the right to end our existence. But we did not create ourselves.

Maybe our parents, and they probably wanted to a thousands times, but that's not suicide, that's filiacide or something.

Secondly, if we have free will we're just allowed to use it indiscriminately? That can go a long way. That's also an abuse of what Descartes intended when he argued the definition of free will. Free will is supposed to be guided by our second and higher faculty, reasoning/intellect. The intellect is supposed to discern what is true and just, the free will is supposed to choose it.

Most of the arguments in favor of suicide are based on opinions, subjectivity, and feelings. As such, they fail as reasons to exercise free will in that direction.

Duh, this thread is asking people's OPINIONS. I also don't agree with you at all about this "we have no right to end our lives because we didn't create ourselves". I don't care who created me, I have been the one living my life and therefor should have the right to end it. I agree with most people who say that obviously people SHOULDN'T try to commit suicide, but I believe they should be able to.

Other- To preserve honor. A captain should go down with his ship, etc.

If someone wants to commit suicide, let them. If you know them closely, try to stop them, but if that is what they want to do, let them. There's nothing you can do.

A friend of mine used to be a cutter, luckly she was doing it just to hurt, not to kill. I wish suicide was never thought up. no one should take their own life.