NationStates Jolt Archive

You would think the brits were America's friend. Yet they allow people to show this crap in their schools:
http://www.brandonblog.com/Graphic-Iraq-war-Video.html

British laws against racial strife are enforced only against whites. They are letting these bastards get away with promoting murder. A phone call has confirmed the Brits refuse to do anything about it.

And now groups like Greenpeace, Moveon.org, and other Bush bashers are showing it all over the US. It's even gained popularity among street gangs.

I say we need start treating those groups like the f ing terrorist organizations they are. I say arrest every single SOB that's involved in these groups.
F ing sick sobs.
And we need to move our troops out of our british military bases into the streets of London and just plain take over. Teach the british a lesson they won't ever forget.

This is just sick sick sick.
The FBI is stuck cause if they move, they might get charged with racsim.
What kind of bull is that?

A football chant springs to mind.

"Come and have a go if you think your hard anough."

more destructive fallout from Bushs unjust war in Iraq--why did Bush squander all the goodwill after 911 by lying to start an unnecessary war for corporate greed--only our sick loser of a President could be such an abysmal failure---IMPEACH BUSH THE TERRORIST PROMOTER

more destructive fallout from Bushs unjust war in Iraq--why did Bush squander all the goodwill after 911 by lying to start an unnecessary war for corporate greed--only our sick loser of a President could be such an abysmal failure---IMPEACH BUSH THE TERRORIST PROMOTER
cause if you seen the 911 report, you would know Iraq along with Iran and the United Arab Emirates was supporting Al Qaeda's 911 attack one way or another.
Right after 911, Iraq offered refuge to Osama Bin Laden and his Al Qaeda and arrested american aid workers and tortured them.

You would think the brits were America's friend. Yet they allow people to show this crap in their schools:
http://www.brandonblog.com/Graphic-Iraq-war-Video.html

British laws against racial strife are enforced only against whites. They are letting these bastards get away with promoting murder. A phone call has confirmed the Brits refuse to do anything about it.

And now groups like Greenpeace, Moveon.org, and other Bush bashers are showing it all over the US. It's even gained popularity among street gangs.

I say we need start treating those groups like the f ing terrorist organizations they are. I say arrest every single SOB that's involved in these groups.
F ing sick sobs.
And we need to move our troops out of our british military bases into the streets of London and just plain take over. Teach the british a lesson they won't ever forget.

Freedom of Speech and expression is a bitch isn't it!

All it shows is that there are many bad muslims out there. Just like there are many bad Christians.

If we censor and punish, then how are we different from them?

Freedom of Speech and expression is a bitch isn't it!

All it shows is that there are many bad muslims out there. Just like there are many bad Christians.

If we censor and punish, then how are we different from them?
Free speech does not include the right to support war against the United States or the murder of innocents. That is exactly what this film does.
The Supreme Court already ruled that stuff like this was not protected by the 1st amendment.

Free speech does not include the right to support war against the United States or the murder of innocents. That is exactly what this film does.
The Supreme Court already ruled that stuff like this was not protected by the 1st amendment.
Yet it allows you to support the going to war with another sovereign nation (and therefore), the murder of innocents?

Is this bleh?

more destructive fallout from Bushs unjust war in Iraq--why did Bush squander all the goodwill after 911 by lying to start an unnecessary war for corporate greed--only our sick loser of a President could be such an abysmal failure---IMPEACH BUSH THE TERRORIST PROMOTER

ugh, take yourself somewhere else, i'm sick of hearing that crap. and start blaming the people that are really at fault, the friggin' terrorists, you friggin' idiot.

The US Supereme Court doesn't govern the UK.

I say we need start treating those groups like the f ing terrorist organizations they are. I say arrest every single SOB that's involved in these groups.
F ing sick sobs.
And we need to move our troops out of our british military bases into the streets of London and just plain take over. Teach the british a lesson they won't ever forget.

You are as good at promoting terrorism as that which you condemn. You are a terrorist and hatemonger. The difference between you and Osama Bin Laden is no wider than a hair.

So what exactly is your beef with the two videos on the site? Do you not like the Brits showing the graphic violence from the helicopter to school kids? Why not? Or is it more the rap video that bothers you? I'm curious.

You are as good at promoting terrorism as that which you condemn. You are a terrorist and hatemonger. The difference between you and Osama Bin Laden is no wider than a hair.
When those groups promote these films, and promote the murder of americans, they are terrorists. ANd they should all be executed.

So what exactly is your beef with the two videos on the site? Do you not like the Brits showing the graphic violence from the helicopter to school kids? Why not? Or is it more the rap video that bothers you? I'm curious.
THe so called rap video is an Al Qaeda recruitment film, in case you all couldn't figure it out.

When those groups promote these films, and promote the murder of americans, they are terrorists. ANd they should all be executed.
So.

You are proposing to murder the murderers?

Interesting.

THe so called rap video is an Al Qaeda recruitment film, in case you all couldn't figure it out.
I never realised Osama had such phat choons.

You would think the brits were America's friend. Yet they allow people to show this crap in their schools:
http://www.brandonblog.com/Graphic-Iraq-war-Video.html

Funny, I don't remember seeing this in school... oh wait! That's because we didn't!

Damn those Brits and freedom of speech!

Promoting war IS included in freedom of speech, by the way.

I never realised Osama had such phat choons.
Who do you think paid for its production and distribution?

THe so called rap video is an Al Qaeda recruitment film, in case you all couldn't figure it out.It could certainly be taken that way, I suppose, although since I don't know Arabic, I couldn't say for certain that the rapper speaking that language was advocating the joining of the local cell. It could also just be an expression of rage from people on the ground there. But as an educational tool, it's an effective way to show the perspective of those people who disagree so strongly with us that they're willing to resort to violence.

Who do you think paid for its production and distribution?
A disgruntled heir of the House of Saud?

Honestly, I have no idea. And neighter do you. Unless you are withholding information.

Also, I find it more than a little ironic that what you object to is... the British allowing this video to be shown.

And what you do is post a link of the video, allowing us to see it when otherwise we wouldn't have (I wouldn't have, anyway)! Why if there are any potential terrorists reading this thread, and they sought out their local Al Queda Recruitment Center from watching the video you posted a link to... you would in fact be contributing to terrorism, wouldn't you?

Free speech does not include the right to support war against the United States or the murder of innocents. That is exactly what this film does.
The Supreme Court already ruled that stuff like this was not protected by the 1st amendment.

Really? Link to the case if you please.

Not only that, the British don't even like us that much- Tony Blair and the government does, but popular support behind it is very thin.

Not only that, the British don't even like us that much- Tony Blair and the government does, but popular support behind it is very thin.
It isn't that we don't like you [the people], but we cannot stand Bush and his thugs.

I say let them rap and jump around like idiot american hiphop gangsta wannabes. As soon as they pick up a rifle or bomb or RPG, there will be an Apache waiting for them.

Free speech does not include the right to support war against the United States or the murder of innocents. That is exactly what this film does.
The Supreme Court already ruled that stuff like this was not protected by the 1st amendment.

You have a problem with the truth and or reality? They didn't make this up, it happened and further the exact same video was shown on CNN Presents.. so don't blame the Brits.

Right after 911, Iraq offered refuge to Osama Bin Laden and his Al Qaeda and arrested american aid workers and tortured them.

I think you'll find not. Saddam and Osama Bin Laden hate each other.

I say let them rap and jump around like idiot american hiphop gangsta wannabes. As soon as they pick up a rifle or bomb or RPG, there will be an Apache waiting for them.
Hoooah!

I think you'll find not. Saddam and Osama Bin Laden hate each other.
Read the 911 report, its in there.

You have a problem with the truth and or reality? They didn't make this up, it happened and further the exact same video was shown on CNN Presents.. so don't blame the Brits.
I wasn't debating the truth of the stuff in the video, I was debating that it was an Al Qaeda recruitment tool and groups like Moveon that have been showing it, are terrorists for showing it. Because by doing so they support terrorism.

I say let them rap and jump around like idiot american hiphop gangsta wannabes. As soon as they pick up a rifle or bomb or RPG, there will be an Apache waiting for them.

teehee! thank you! most definitely.

I wasn't debating the truth of the stuff in the video, I was debating that it was an Al Qaeda recruitment tool and groups like Moveon that have been showing it, are terrorists for showing it. Because by doing so they support terrorism.

Yeah, they're also anti-american and shot be shot/deported.

Whatever you say, McCarthy ;)

Read the 911 report, its in there.


All 600 pages!! Could you please c&p the relevant part if you've read it all!!??

From what I understand the feud between Osama bin Laden and Saddam stems from the fact that bin Laden wanted Iraq to be an islamist fundamentalist state under the control of muslim clerics, but Saddam ( for all his many failings and atrocities ) created a secular Iraq, ffs there was even a synagogue in Baghdad under his reign!

So was refuge offered to Osama bun Laden himself or the other culprits of 9/11?

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=342064

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/911ReportExec.pdf

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=342064

Cheers.

But I'm not convinced, this stuff hasn't surfaced until now, and is cited in a report condemning the American Intelligence agencies!!

Somethings not right there.

just wanted to point out that those of you who are still blaming the President for 9/11 that all you're doing is supporting the terrorists and helping them accomplish their goal.

just wanted to point out that those of you who are still blaming the President for 9/11 that all you're doing is supporting the terrorists and helping them accomplish their goal.

Is that a fact? I suggest you explore the history of Bush, his business interests, and a load of Saudi's.

I wasn't debating the truth of the stuff in the video, I was debating that it was an Al Qaeda recruitment tool and groups like Moveon that have been showing it, are terrorists for showing it. Because by doing so they support terrorism.
Moveon? Care to back that little piece of bullshit up?

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/911ReportExec.pdf
ONly 30 pages long.

ONly 30 pages long.

Sure, I scanned through it on the bbc site.

Fishy...

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/911ReportExec.pdfAre you saying that the document linked here makes the claim that there was a connection between Iraq and al Qaeda? I want to make sure you are saying that before I tear you a new asshole.

Are you saying that the document linked here makes the claim that there was a connection between Iraq and al Qaeda? I want to make sure you are saying that before I tear you a new asshole.
No this is just the 30 pages summary. THe link between Iraq and Al Qaeda is in the original 300 page report.

just wanted to point out that those of you who are still blaming the President for 9/11 that all you're doing is supporting the terrorists and helping them accomplish their goal.

I don't think any serious person blames Bush for 9/11, except the wacko conspiracy theorists, but they are not serious. What Bush is accused of is rushing towards a war in Iraq under false pretenses and waving the flag of terrorism and 9/11 to rally popular support, when in fact Iraq had nothing to do with that attack or with Bin Laden's organization (the report mentions there may have been links, but none have been found. the report on the Iraq war says no such links existed, although at the time it was reasonable to explore its existence).

I don't think any serious person blames Bush for 9/11, except the wacko conspiracy theorists, but they are not serious. What Bush is accused of is rushing towards a war in Iraq under false pretenses and waving the flag of terrorism and 9/11 to rally popular support, when in fact Iraq had nothing to do with that attack or with Bin Laden's organization (the report mentions there may have been links, but none have been found. the report on the Iraq war says no such links existed, although at the time it was reasonable to explore its existence).
Most of what you say is true, but they did find one link.
That Iraq did offer asylum to Bin Laden and Al Qaeda on the day of 911.
But Bin Laden refused it, preferring the caves of Afghanistan to the plains of Iraq. It was a wise move on his part.

Are you saying that the document linked here makes the claim that there was a connection between Iraq and al Qaeda? I want to make sure you are saying that before I tear you a new asshole.
ANd you are so anti american that you will do anything to destroy the truth.
INcluding being one of those people who squashes debate whenever someone says something you don't like or criticizes the democratic party, atheists or any other group you support.

When those groups promote these films, and promote the murder of americans, they are terrorists. ANd they should all be executed.

Yeah, and by that logic, when Americans promote anti Islamic values and support antireligious dictatorships, they all should be killed.

Yeah, and by that logic, when Americans promote anti Islamic values and support antireligious dictatorships, they all should be killed.
Hey, they're terrorists.

ANd you are so anti american that you will do anything to destroy the truth.
INcluding being one of those people who squashes debate whenever someone says something you don't like or criticizes the democratic party, atheists or any other group you support.

Yay, for paranoid! Those gay atheist activist democrats are out to get you, boo! They want to ruin America with their evil, evil lies! Run!

Hey, they're terrorists.

All muslims are terrorists? or are you saying that Anti-Muslims are Terrorists?

Either one of thsoe assertations is absurd.

cause if you seen the 911 report, you would know Iraq along with Iran and the United Arab Emirates was supporting Al Qaeda's 911 attack one way or another.
Right after 911, Iraq offered refuge to Osama Bin Laden and his Al Qaeda and arrested american aid workers and tortured them.

I suppose if that were true then it wouldn't be a lie by Bush's vermacht, would it?

The US Supereme Court doesn't govern the UK.

It should

Free speech does not include the right to support war against the United States or the murder of innocents. That is exactly what this film does.
The Supreme Court already ruled that stuff like this was not protected by the 1st amendment.

Well, gee, they aren't in America, are they? Americans are allowed to advocate taking over Britain; likewise, people in Britain are allowed to advocate levying war against the United States. Seems fair to me. And where is the source that says it's been picked up by Greenpeace or Moveon.org?

It should
I disagree, but that's irrelevant. It doesn't.

Most of what you say is true, but they did find one link.
That Iraq did offer asylum to Bin Laden and Al Qaeda on the day of 911.
But Bin Laden refused it, preferring the caves of Afghanistan to the plains of Iraq. It was a wise move on his part.
I don't know why I'm going to all this trouble for a freaking message board, but I've got the time on my hands, so what the hell.

I went to the 300 page report and found what you were talking about. The full report is here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/911report/documents/911Report.pdf)

The quote you're talking about is this, found on page 66 of the report, 83 of the file: There is also evidence that around this time Bin Ladin sent out a number of feelers to the Iraqi regime, offering some cooperation. None are reported to have received a significant response.According to one report, Saddam Hussein’s efforts at this time to rebuild relations with the Saudis and other Middle Eastern regimes led him to stay clear of Bin Ladin.74

In mid-1998, the situation reversed; it was Iraq that reportedly took the initiative. In March 1998, after Bin Ladin’s public fatwa against the United States, two al Qaeda members reportedly went to Iraq to meet with Iraqi intelligence. In July, an Iraqi delegation traveled to Afghanistan to meet first with the Taliban and then with Bin Ladin. Sources reported that one, or perhaps both, of these meetings was apparently arranged through Bin Ladin’s Egyptian deputy, Zawahiri, who had ties of his own to the Iraqis. In 1998, Iraq was under intensifying U.S. pressure, which culminated in a series of large air attacks in December.75

Similar meetings between Iraqi officials and Bin Ladin or his aides may have occurred in 1999 during a period of some reported strains with the Taliban. According to the reporting, Iraqi officials offered Bin Ladin a safe haven in Iraq. Bin Ladin declined, apparently judging that his circumstances in Afghanistan remained more favorable than the Iraqi alternative. The reports describe friendly contacts and indicate some common themes in both sides’ hatred of the United States. But to date we have seen no evidence that these or the earlier contacts ever developed into a collaborative operational relationship. Nor have we seen evidence indicating that Iraq cooperated with al Qaeda in developing or carrying out any attacks against the United States.76
Sounds good, right? Follow the footnotes and see what they have to say. From page 470 of the report, 487 of the file:
74. Intelligence report, unsuccessful Bin Ladin probes for contact with Iraq, July 24, 1998; Intelligence report, Saddam Hussein’s efforts to repair relations with Saudi government, 2001.

75. Intelligence report, Iraq approach to Bin Ladin, Mar. 16, 1999.

76. CIA analytic report,“Ansar al-Islam:Al Qa’ida’s Ally in Northeastern Iraq,” CTC 2003-40011CX, Feb. 1, 2003. See also DIA analytic report,“Special Analysis: Iraq’s Inconclusive Ties to Al-Qaida,” July 31, 2002; CIA analytic report,“Old School Ties,” Mar. 10, 2003. We have seen other intelligence reports at the CIA about 1999 contacts. They are consistent with the conclusions we provide in the text, and their reliability is uncertain. Although there have been suggestions of contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda regarding chemical weapons and explosives training, the most detailed information alleging such ties came from an al Qaeda operative who recanted much of his original information. Intelligence report, interrogation of al Qaeda operative,Feb. 14,2004. Two senior Bin Ladin associates have adamantly denied that any such ties existed between al Qaeda and Iraq. Intelligence reports, interrogations of KSM and Zubaydah, 2003 (cited in CIA letter, response to Douglas Feith memorandum,“Requested Modifications to ‘Summary of Body of Intelligence Reporting on Iraq–al Qaida Contacts (1990–2003),’” Dec. 10, 2003, p. 5). Bolding mine.
So in the report, they say Bin Laden sent out feelers to the Iraqi regime, but in the footnotes they note that the intelligence on this is unsure at best, and also note that the contact was with Ansar al Islam, the group situated in the northern no fly zone and outside Hussein's control.

You got anything else?

It should


What??!!!!!

I don't know why I'm going to all this trouble for a freaking message board, but I've got the time on my hands, so what the hell.

I went to the 300 page report and found what you were talking about. The full report is here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/911report/documents/911Report.pdf)

The quote you're talking about is this, found on page 66 of the report, 83 of the file:
Sounds good, right? Follow the footnotes and see what they have to say. From page 470 of the report, 487 of the file:
Bolding mine.
So in the report, they say Bin Laden sent out feelers to the Iraqi regime, but in the footnotes they note that the intelligence on this is unsure at best, and also note that the contact was with Ansar al Islam, the group situated in the northern no fly zone and outside Hussein's control.

You got anything else?

Excellent post mate. I knew that whole connection was dodgy as hell - that and it being made in a report that critisises the Intelligence agencies anyway!

Oh yeah--there's nothing in the 300 pages, so far as I could find, that makes the claim you made, Whittier, that Hussein offered Bin Laden safe harbor post 9-11. If it's there, you have to find it. Simply saying it's there isn't good enough.

I suppose if that were true then it wouldn't be a lie by Bush's vermacht, would it?

First of all, it's Wehrmacht. Second, why is it so hard to believe that some of these Arab/Muslim countries in the Middle East support/supported Al Qaida by either direct or indirect means? This is not a court of law. The US government does not have to prove beyong a reasonable doubt that Iraq, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan, Sudan, etc., etc., ad nausium, helped Al Qaida. Not to the World. Not even to the American People. What the government knows and how it found out must be kept close the the vest.

First of all, it's Wehrmacht. Second, why is it so hard to believe that some of these Arab/Muslim countries in the Middle East support/supported Al Qaida by either direct or indirect means? This is not a court of law. The US government does not have to prove beyong a reasonable doubt that Iraq, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan, Sudan, etc., etc., ad nausium, helped Al Qaida. Not to the World. Not even to the American People. What the government knows and how it found out must be kept close the the vest.


Isn't that contrary to democracy?

It's already been established Iraq had nothing to do with Al-Qaeda. One Iraqi operative met with an Al-Qaeda in the mid 90s in Sudan and they were asked to give Al-qaeda spots in Iraq for camps to be setup. Iraq hated Al-Qaeda because Bin Laden is a staunch religious fanatic who fought communists and hates them. Saddam loved Joseph Stalin.


Al Qaeda was NOT working with Iraq. That's already been established by the 911 commission. They said "There is no credible evidence to suggest that Iraq and Al-Qaeda were working together."

Neither was Iran and Al-Qaeda working together.

The only nation working with Al-Qaeda was Afghanistan, and the Taliban is gone. The war in Iraq was a detour from the war on terror.



I support the war in Afghanistan but not Iraq.

:
Originally Posted by Incertonia
Are you saying that the document linked here makes the claim that there was a connection between Iraq and al Qaeda? I want to make sure you are saying that before I tear you a new asshole.

ANd you are so anti american that you will do anything to destroy the truth.
INcluding being one of those people who squashes debate whenever someone says something you don't like or criticizes the democratic party, atheists or any other group you support.

Anti-american? Squashing debate? Where do you get any of that?

Here's the new asshole I was going to tear you. You linked the Executive summary of the 9/11 Commission's report, and claimed that there was a linkage between Hussein and al Qaeda post 9/11. Not only is that not what the Commission report report said in the body of the report, the word Iraq is not even written in the Executive summary, the document you linked. Before you come to the table with more accusations, you better make sure you've got your facts straight. I don't play around.

First of all, it's Wehrmacht. Second, why is it so hard to believe that some of these Arab/Muslim countries in the Middle East support/supported Al Qaida by either direct or indirect means? This is not a court of law. The US government does not have to prove beyong a reasonable doubt that Iraq, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan, Sudan, etc., etc., ad nausium, helped Al Qaida. Not to the World. Not even to the American People. What the government knows and how it found out must be kept close the the vest.

Yes, they're all out to get us! We must trust the President!! Why should we question what he's telling us? He would never lie to us. He would never mislead us. Always trust the government, they're here to help!

Yeah, they're also anti-american and shot be shot/deported.

Whatever you say, McCarthy ;)


Joseph McCarthy was an honorable man. If only we had a few people who are like he was. Real men! Men not afraid to take a stand.

Or if only he had lived a few decades more.

If only.

McCarthy was an idiot and a tool and the world is better off without him. The character of Howard Iselin from the original "Manchurian Candidate" was modeled directly from him.

Joseph McCarthy was an honorable man. If only we had a few people who are like he was. Real men! Men not afraid to take a stand.

Or if only he had lived a few decades more.

If only.

Wowwww an Ann Coulter follower.

I head they existed.

Sorry buddy but honor is not a word you can apply to that man.

Joseph McCarthy was an honorable man. If only we had a few people who are like he was. Real men! Men not afraid to take a stand.

Or if only he had lived a few decades more.

If only.


Fucking hell

Joseph McCarthy was an honorable man. If only we had a few people who are like he was. Real men! Men not afraid to take a stand.

Or if only he had lived a few decades more.

If only.

Blame alcohol. The man drank himself to death.

One can only hope it was due to guilt for all the lives he ruined and reputations he trashed on innuendo.

Also consider the fact that Bill O'Reily pissed off Annie by continuously repeating "I am not buying that" whenever she said he was a great american, etc....

All 600 pages!! Could you please c&p the relevant part if you've read it all!!??

From what I understand the feud between Osama bin Laden and Saddam stems from the fact that bin Laden wanted Iraq to be an islamist fundamentalist state under the control of muslim clerics, but Saddam ( for all his many failings and atrocities ) created a secular Iraq, ffs there was even a synagogue in Baghdad under his reign!

So was refuge offered to Osama bun Laden himself or the other culprits of 9/11?
Refuge was offered.
The muslims have a saying that west doesn't have nor understand, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." But most people who posted here cannot grasp that cause they think the whole world thinks like them.

I don't think any serious person blames Bush for 9/11, except the wacko conspiracy theorists, but they are not serious. What Bush is accused of is rushing towards a war in Iraq under false pretenses and waving the flag of terrorism and 9/11 to rally popular support, when in fact Iraq had nothing to do with that attack or with Bin Laden's organization (the report mentions there may have been links, but none have been found. the report on the Iraq war says no such links existed, although at the time it was reasonable to explore its existence).
Lots of liberal conspiracy theorists on NS who think the world is out to get them. ;)

And we need to move our troops out of our british military bases into the streets of London and just plain take over. Teach the british a lesson they won't ever forget.

Excellent plan: hey it isn't as if this kind of American military arrogance has ever caused problems for it later on down the line...

I don't know why I'm going to all this trouble for a freaking message board, but I've got the time on my hands, so what the hell.

I went to the 300 page report and found what you were talking about. The full report is here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/911report/documents/911Report.pdf)

The quote you're talking about is this, found on page 66 of the report, 83 of the file:
Sounds good, right? Follow the footnotes and see what they have to say. From page 470 of the report, 487 of the file:
Bolding mine.
So in the report, they say Bin Laden sent out feelers to the Iraqi regime, but in the footnotes they note that the intelligence on this is unsure at best, and also note that the contact was with Ansar al Islam, the group situated in the northern no fly zone and outside Hussein's control.

You got anything else?

You got it right there. Saddam offered them refuge. Bin Laden declined.
That's what I've been saying. My argument, since you couldn't figure it out, is that Iraq deserved to be invaded by the US cause Saddam offered them refuge. It doesn't matter if they were fully cooperative or not. We were fully justified in our invasion of Iraq, cause Saddam was evil, Ansar Al Islam was and is evil and was supported by both Saddam and Bin Laden.
You have to remember that after Clinton cut ties with the Kurds, Saddam gained a lot of political influence. And influence is just as good as having direct control.

Lots of liberal conspiracy theorists on NS who think the world is out to get them. ;)

You know, I may just be being paranoid, but when I read posts from people advocating the use of American troops to set up a militarily backed dictatorship in the country in which I live, something does kind of indicate that parts of the world are actually out to get me...

Isn't that contrary to democracy?
not at all. But it is contrary to mob rule.

Anti-american? Squashing debate? Where do you get any of that?

Here's the new asshole I was going to tear you. You linked the Executive summary of the 9/11 Commission's report, and claimed that there was a linkage between Hussein and al Qaeda post 9/11. Not only is that not what the Commission report report said in the body of the report, the word Iraq is not even written in the Executive summary, the document you linked. Before you come to the table with more accusations, you better make sure you've got your facts straight. I don't play around.
Its not my fault you're some anti american sob who supports terrorist attacks on American civilians just cause you hate bush.
And no where did I say that the Iraq was mentioned in the executive summary. I only posted a link. But then again liberals like are so antibush that its impossible for you to think.

McCarthy was an idiot and a tool and the world is better off without him. The character of Howard Iselin from the original "Manchurian Candidate" was modeled directly from him.
Another antiamerican rant against another good american.

British laws against racial strife are enforced only against whites.

Oh really?

From the Independent (a UK newspaper):

"The first prosecution for incitement to racial hatred was against black activist Michael X, and subsequently those found guilty have largely been from the black and ethnic minority communities, when the legislation was supposed to have been brought in to protect them."

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=538866

Another antiamerican rant against another good american.

Whittier, you're the MKULTRA of neoconservatives. Stop digging your own hole and quit while you're far behind. Prove your statements or give up. Stop Ad Hominem arguments while not adressing issues.

(No offense to MKULTRA meant.)

Whittier, you're the MKULTRA of neoconservatives.

Nah, MKULTRA gave links for his off the wall assertions and bizarre theories.

I did not see anything offensive, anti-american, or most definately subversive in that helicopter video.

All I saw was soldiers conducting the business of warfare, which all political BS aside is about killing the enemy.

I did not see anything offensive, anti-american, or most definately subversive in that helicopter video.

All I saw was soldiers conducting the business of warfare, which all political BS aside is about killing the enemy.


He's bitching about the other video below it, not the helicopter one.

Nah, MKULTRA gave links for his off the wall assertions and bizarre theories.Yeah, MK is a step above Whit.

I've seen a quote by a very good man.

"Politics is war without the blood shed. War is politics with the blood shed."

It's all political people. In all honesty from what i have seen so far, being a independant sort of American, Bush (aside from the possibility of a personal vandetta against Sadaam Huessin) did a good thing by kicking Sadaam out. Now, instead of a psychotic dictator they have parliment and democracy, or they are trying to get one started anyway.

They are not to unlike the Americans when we started up our country. And the UK should remember their history and a little thing called Revolution.

Viva La Democrate`.

I've heard testemonies from Iraqi women about how 20 years ago before Sadaam came to power that they had civil rights, the minorities were gaining civil rights and there were femal doctors, lawyers and business owners and because of Sadaam.....they are reduced to home-makers: no offense to any mom or dad staying home, but you know what i mean.

Basically what I'm saying is, so we're fighting in Iraq, okay, so our people are being killed by crazy people who like to chop off Americans heads; bad move. Killing Americans has never settled well with Americans, basically if you kill us we'll kill you back.

War is and always will be apart of our history. We wouldn't have made the progress we did if not for war. Britains should be well aware of this fact. Radical Jihads trying to recruit with a bad rap song is not only bad taste since they ripped rap off of us, but also silly. The countries named at the end were countries that have attacked allies of the United States, and we dont' let poeple who are our friends get hurt.

So debate if you must, but the simple fact of the matter is: People are dying. Iraqi and Americans alike and until the terrorists or the radical jihad stop, which i highly doubt they will, we will fight to defend what we have come to love. FREEDOM.

A football chant springs to mind.

"Come and have a go if you think your hard anough."

Even as a Greek living in England... I have to second this chant :)

You got it right there. Saddam offered them refuge. Bin Laden declined.
That's what I've been saying. My argument, since you couldn't figure it out, is that Iraq deserved to be invaded by the US cause Saddam offered them refuge. It doesn't matter if they were fully cooperative or not. We were fully justified in our invasion of Iraq, cause Saddam was evil, Ansar Al Islam was and is evil and was supported by both Saddam and Bin Laden.
You have to remember that after Clinton cut ties with the Kurds, Saddam gained a lot of political influence. And influence is just as good as having direct control.
You didn't even bother to read the post did you?

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Oh really?

From the Independent (a UK newspaper):

"The first prosecution for incitement to racial hatred was against black activist Michael X, and subsequently those found guilty have largely been from the black and ethnic minority communities, when the legislation was supposed to have been brought in to protect them."

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=538866
where the heck did I say that shit?

Anyway, back on the original topic.

That "rap video" is a complete disgrace and anyone who says they cannot see the incitement to terrorism in it is blind or just plain stupid. "Kill the Crusaders" "Fight the Infidels" "Send Them Home in Bodybags" and thats just the English language titles to some of the pictures and footage. what they are talking about in Arabic i have no idea and it makes no difference.
Anyone who sees no problem with this sort of material has serious problems and have their anti-Bush heads shoved so far up their arses they can't see daylight.
If, and I say IF, this was shown in schools as some sort of educational video then that is a disgrace to the British Education system. I could not imagine it happening but if it did there should be an investigation as crap like that has no place in any school.
If this type of video was advocating the killing of blacks, gays or some other group it would be banned and all the people here showing indifference to it would be outraged by it.
I don't care whether you support the war in Iraq or not, this video should be banned and those that made the video clip arrested fro insighting terrorism.

I think the rap video is a valid political opinion. BUT, it advocates the killing of Americans, and a music video that tells its listeners to murder anyone (be they Iraqi, American, Sri Lankan, or whatever) should be banned.

How do we know they don't show it as an example of reactions to the Iraqi War and not as a valid suggestion to kill Americans? Did the original poster say this? Where is the source of these allegations?

And what were those men doing before they were shot by the helicopter? It seems like they were resistance fighters, but if they were civilians....

Anyway, back on the original topic.

That "rap video" is a complete disgrace and anyone who says they cannot see the incitement to terrorism in it is blind or just plain stupid. "Kill the Crusaders" "Fight the Infidels" "Send Them Home in Bodybags" and thats just the English language titles to some of the pictures and footage. what they are talking about in Arabic i have no idea and it makes no difference.
Anyone who sees no problem with this sort of material has serious problems and have their anti-Bush heads shoved so far up their arses they can't see daylight.
If, and I say IF, this was shown in schools as some sort of educational video then that is a disgrace to the British Education system. I could not imagine it happening but if it did there should be an investigation as crap like that has no place in any school.
If this type of video was advocating the killing of blacks, gays or some other group it would be banned and all the people here showing indifference to it would be outraged by it.
I don't care whether you support the war in Iraq or not, this video should be banned and those that made the video clip arrested fro insighting terrorism.


The part where the terrorist with AK-47 is standing by the edge of the woods shooting a man on the ground is from Chechnya. The wounded man on the ground was a Russian soldier, the terrorist a Chechen Muslim.

I think when most arab teens see that, they'll want to march off and blow themselves up inside a building full of "infidels".

I think the rap video is a valid political opinion. BUT, it advocates the killing of Americans, and a music video that tells its listeners to murder anyone (be they Iraqi, American, Sri Lankan, or whatever) should be banned.

Which part of "KILL THE CRUSADERS" "FIGHT THE INFIDELS" and "SEND THEM HOME IN BODY BAGS" do you find ambiguous? Any video advocating terrorism should be banned.

How do we know they don't show it as an example of reactions to the Iraqi War and not as a valid suggestion to kill Americans? Did the original poster say this? Where is the source of these allegations?

Who cares why it was shown? Material inciting terrorism has no place in schools. As I said IF it was shown in schools. I have not seen evidence that it was.

And what were those men doing before they were shot by the helicopter? It seems like they were resistance fighters, but if they were civilians....

I have no idea. The large truck looked like a military vehicle and the position the first person ran to looked like some sort of anti-aircraft installation but I cannot be sure.

Which part of "KILL THE CRUSADERS" "FIGHT THE INFIDELS" and "SEND THEM HOME IN BODY BAGS" do you find ambiguous? Any video advocating terrorism should be banned.



Who cares why it was shown? Material inciting terrorism has no place in schools. As I said IF it was shown in schools. I have not seen evidence that it was.



I have no idea. The large truck looked like a military vehicle and the position the first person ran to looked like some sort of anti-aircraft installation but I cannot be sure.

It was shown in mosques all throughout England, keep in mind england has laws against "Disseminating any material likely to incite racial, ethnic, or religious hatred".

Norway is currently debating banning Islam, because they're realized what we won't admit. Mosques are simply terrorist meeting centers, the terrorists gather there under the guise of being pious religious people, but they preach against the west (While living in the west) and they talk in arabic about how to best "Kill infidels".


http://pub.tv2.no/nettavisen/english/article254421.ece

Which part of "KILL THE CRUSADERS" "FIGHT THE INFIDELS" and "SEND THEM HOME IN BODY BAGS" do you find ambiguous? Any video advocating terrorism should be banned.



Who cares why it was shown? Material inciting terrorism has no place in schools. As I said IF it was shown in schools. I have not seen evidence that it was.



I have no idea. The large truck looked like a military vehicle and the position the first person ran to looked like some sort of anti-aircraft installation but I cannot be sure.

Where did I say it was ambiguous? It clearly states to perform Anti-American terrorism and I think it should be banned on the grounds that it encourages murder.

So now it will influence Children and contaminate them even if it's shown as a "this is what terrorists are like" video? How do we even know it's being shown? Where is the source of Whittier's original claims that this was being shown in British schools?

Well, if they're fighting against the Americans, I feel we're authorized to blow the heck out of them. A 30mm Vulcan as an Anti-Personell gun- glad I'm not a resistance fighter...

Where did I say it was ambiguous? It clearly states to perform Anti-American terrorism and I think it should be banned on the grounds that it encourages murder.

I misread your statement, I apologise. Yes, it should be banned. It is not only Americans it advocates killing, it is all citizens of nations supporting the war on terror.

So now it will influence Children and contaminate them even if it's shown as a "this is what terrorists are like" video? How do we even know it's being shown? Where is the source of Whittier's original claims that this was being shown in British schools?

You did not say to use it as a "this is what terrorists are like" video. You said to use it to show reaction to the war in Iraq. A different concept altogether. Regardless, it should not be shown at all..anywhere. There is no place for crap like that video.
I said there is no evidence it has been shown in schools. The OP stated it had and I said I was not sure it had been and even said I would be surprised if a school was stupid enough to show that video.

That video should be banned and those that performed in it, produced and distributed it should be arrested for inciting terrorism.

I suggest all good Christians take up arms in defense of west against Islamic terror. God will reward greatly all those who give their lives in the struggle for Christianity. God will especially reward those who martyr themselves to destroy His enemies (muslims being a major enemy of God)

If a Christian gives his life to destroy the enemy, God will immediately forgive any of their past sins and take the faithful martyr into heaven that very same day.



http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/000793.php


http://www.jihadwatch.org/









http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1143499,00.html


Islamic rappers' message of terror

Antony Barnett
Sunday February 8, 2004
The Observer

It's rap, jihad-style. A music video with blood-curdling images, fronted by a young British Muslim rapper brandishing a gun and a Koran is the latest hit in radical Islamic circles.
The rap song is called 'Dirty Kuffar' - Arabic for dirty non-believer - and it praises Osama bin Laden and the attack on the World Trade Centre in New York.

The video has recently been posted on the British website run by the Islamic extremist Mohammed al-Massari, the UK-based Saudi Arabian dissident who has lived in Britain since 1994. Al-Massari claims that the video has been selling in large quantities at mosques to the younger generation and is in heavy demand overseas.

The rapper fronting the video calls himself Sheikh Terra and the Soul Salah Crew - a take on the rap group So Solid Crew. 'Salah' is Arabic for faith.

The video might at first be mistaken for an Ali G spoof, but the violent images quickly reveal it is no joke.

The song starts with images of US marines in Iraq cheering as one of them shoots a wounded Iraqi lying on the floor. At the end of the video, it features shots of the hijacked planes flying into the Twin Towers with sounds of the rappers laughing. There is then a list of 56 countries they claim have been the 'victims of American aggression' since 1945.

The four-minute rap is essentially a repeated diatribe against the 'dirty non-believers' Tony Blair and George Bush, urging listeners to 'throw them on the fire'.

One of the most brutal images shows a jihadist fighter in Chechnya riddling a captured Russian soldier with a Kalashnikov. Another image labels Pakistan president General Pervez Musharraf a traitor and shows photographs of Colin Powell and Condeleezza Rice with the words 'still slaves' superimposed across their bodies.

Labour MP Andrew Dismore said he was 'disgusted' by the video and is to refer it to the Home Office and ask the police to investigate if any offence has been committed.

Dismore said: 'These extremist are using music and video to prey on young and impressionable Muslim boys in order to attract them to their brand of lunacy and entice them to commit acts of terror. It is inexcusable.'

The website on which the video was originally posted is run by the Committee for the Defence of Legitimate Rights in Saudi Arabia, a group run by al-Massari who came to Britain in 1994 after being imprisoned by the Saudi regime.

He said: 'A boy came to me and showed me the video and I thought the content was good, although I am no expert on rap. I thought it was an excellent attempt to use modern methods to get a message across.'

Al-Massari did not see a problem in using Western music and MTV-like images to sell a message of jihad. He said that it was an effective way of attracting young Muslims who had been put off by other Islamic sects such as the Taliban, which banned music and dancing. 'I do not know of any young Muslim who has not either seen or got this video. It is selling everywhere. Everyone I meet at the mosque is asking for it.'

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Al-Massari denied that the messages in the video incited Muslims to take part in terrorist attacks against the West.

He said: 'I believe the lyrics are only metaphorical. It is not like this is a fatwa.'

In November 2002, al-Massari circulated a 4,000-word message allegedly from Osama bin Laden. In 2001, al-Massari was granted permanent residence in Britain, five years after Michael Howard, then Conservative Home Secretary, tried to deport him.

Excerpt from 'Dirty Kuffar'
Peace to Hamas and the Hizbollah
OBL [bin-Laden] pulled me like a shiny star
Like the way we destroyed them two towers ha-ha
The minister Tony Blair, there my dirty Kuffar
The one Mr Bush, there my dirty Kuffar...
Throw them on the fire

It was shown in mosques all throughout England, keep in mind england has laws against "Disseminating any material likely to incite racial, ethnic, or religious hatred".

Norway is currently debating banning Islam, because they're realized what we won't admit. Mosques are simply terrorist meeting centers, the terrorists gather there under the guise of being pious religious people, but they preach against the west (While living in the west) and they talk in arabic about how to best "Kill infidels".


http://pub.tv2.no/nettavisen/english/article254421.ece

If it is shown in mosques then that is even worse. Material like that has no place anywhere, least of all in a religious building.

If it is shown in mosques then that is even worse. Material like that has no place anywhere, least of all in a religious building.


Mosques are basically just terrorist recruiting centers, hardly religious buildings.

Mosques are basically just terrorist recruiting centers, hardly religious buildings.

I am not going to say anything like that. But it is true that a mosque in London was found to harbour and recruit terrorists during the Al Qaeda investigations prior to 9/11. Whether they are all like that, I have no idea.

cause if you seen the 911 report, you would know Iraq along with Iran and the United Arab Emirates was supporting Al Qaeda's 911 attack one way or another.
Right after 911, Iraq offered refuge to Osama Bin Laden and his Al Qaeda and arrested american aid workers and tortured them.


Thats unsubstantiated and cannot be proven.

The 9/11 comission report says that Osama LOOKED into asking safe haven form Saddam, but no help was ever given or followed up on.

I suggest all good Christians take up arms in defense of west against Islamic terror. God will reward greatly all those who give their lives in the struggle for Christianity. God will especially reward those who martyr themselves to destroy His enemies (muslims being a major enemy of God)

If a Christian gives his life to destroy the enemy, God will immediately forgive any of their past sins and take the faithful martyr into heaven that very same day.



http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/000793.php


http://www.jihadwatch.org/









http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1143499,00.html


Islamic rappers' message of terror

Antony Barnett
Sunday February 8, 2004
The Observer

It's rap, jihad-style. A music video with blood-curdling images, fronted by a young British Muslim rapper brandishing a gun and a Koran is the latest hit in radical Islamic circles.
The rap song is called 'Dirty Kuffar' - Arabic for dirty non-believer - and it praises Osama bin Laden and the attack on the World Trade Centre in New York.

The video has recently been posted on the British website run by the Islamic extremist Mohammed al-Massari, the UK-based Saudi Arabian dissident who has lived in Britain since 1994. Al-Massari claims that the video has been selling in large quantities at mosques to the younger generation and is in heavy demand overseas.

The rapper fronting the video calls himself Sheikh Terra and the Soul Salah Crew - a take on the rap group So Solid Crew. 'Salah' is Arabic for faith.

The video might at first be mistaken for an Ali G spoof, but the violent images quickly reveal it is no joke.

The song starts with images of US marines in Iraq cheering as one of them shoots a wounded Iraqi lying on the floor. At the end of the video, it features shots of the hijacked planes flying into the Twin Towers with sounds of the rappers laughing. There is then a list of 56 countries they claim have been the 'victims of American aggression' since 1945.

The four-minute rap is essentially a repeated diatribe against the 'dirty non-believers' Tony Blair and George Bush, urging listeners to 'throw them on the fire'.

One of the most brutal images shows a jihadist fighter in Chechnya riddling a captured Russian soldier with a Kalashnikov. Another image labels Pakistan president General Pervez Musharraf a traitor and shows photographs of Colin Powell and Condeleezza Rice with the words 'still slaves' superimposed across their bodies.

Labour MP Andrew Dismore said he was 'disgusted' by the video and is to refer it to the Home Office and ask the police to investigate if any offence has been committed.

Dismore said: 'These extremist are using music and video to prey on young and impressionable Muslim boys in order to attract them to their brand of lunacy and entice them to commit acts of terror. It is inexcusable.'

The website on which the video was originally posted is run by the Committee for the Defence of Legitimate Rights in Saudi Arabia, a group run by al-Massari who came to Britain in 1994 after being imprisoned by the Saudi regime.

He said: 'A boy came to me and showed me the video and I thought the content was good, although I am no expert on rap. I thought it was an excellent attempt to use modern methods to get a message across.'

Al-Massari did not see a problem in using Western music and MTV-like images to sell a message of jihad. He said that it was an effective way of attracting young Muslims who had been put off by other Islamic sects such as the Taliban, which banned music and dancing. 'I do not know of any young Muslim who has not either seen or got this video. It is selling everywhere. Everyone I meet at the mosque is asking for it.'

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secure.worldwildlife.org

Ark RAIN Wildlife Sanctuary and Rescue
With your charitable contributions, lions, primates, and...

arkrain.org
Al-Massari denied that the messages in the video incited Muslims to take part in terrorist attacks against the West.

He said: 'I believe the lyrics are only metaphorical. It is not like this is a fatwa.'

In November 2002, al-Massari circulated a 4,000-word message allegedly from Osama bin Laden. In 2001, al-Massari was granted permanent residence in Britain, five years after Michael Howard, then Conservative Home Secretary, tried to deport him.

Excerpt from 'Dirty Kuffar'
Peace to Hamas and the Hizbollah
OBL [bin-Laden] pulled me like a shiny star
Like the way we destroyed them two towers ha-ha
The minister Tony Blair, there my dirty Kuffar
The one Mr Bush, there my dirty Kuffar...
Throw them on the fire
so the brits refuse to listen to their own people.

Thats unsubstantiated and cannot be proven.

The 9/11 comission report says that Osama LOOKED into asking safe haven form Saddam, but no help was ever given or followed up on.
no it does say that Saddam offered safe haven, but Osama didn't accept.
Piont being that Saddam held celebrations on 911.

no it does say that Saddam offered safe haven, but Osama didn't accept.
Piont being that Saddam held celebrations on 911.


So what?

So did most of the Muslims in the world, does that make them all terrorists?

So, if he didnt give safe haven to bin Laden, and had no other ties to AQ, then where does your logic come in?

So what?

So did most of the Muslims in the world, does that make them all terrorists?

So, if he didnt give safe haven to bin Laden, and had no other ties to AQ, then where does your logic come in?
you're wrong. Only Iraq offered them safe haven.
The taliban wanted them to go, but Bin Laden refused.
Omar couldn't do anything cause the Taliban was weaker than Al Qaeda.
Neither the saudis, kuwaitis, egyptians, pakistania, kazahks, yemenis or any other muslim nation, besides Iraq, offered asylum to Bin Laden and his Al Qaeda.

And I know you didn't read the report if you still claim that Saudi was behind it, cause the report says Saudi had nothing to do with it, and was cooperating with the US against terrorism since before 911.

And its suspicious when people claim to have read an entire 600 page report in just 4 to 5 hours.

you're wrong. Only Iraq offered them safe haven.
The taliban wanted them to go, but Bin Laden refused.
Omar couldn't do anything cause the Taliban was weaker than Al Qaeda.
Neither the saudis, kuwaitis, egyptians, pakistania, kazahks, yemenis or any other muslim nation, besides Iraq, offered asylum to Bin Laden and his Al Qaeda.


I say again....

So what?

The safe haven was never given.
Osama never set foot in Iraq.

Bush proclaimed up and down that Saddam had ties to Al-Qeada.

Turns out that was wrong too.

And I know you didn't read the report if you still claim that Saudi was behind it, cause the report says Saudi had nothing to do with it, and was cooperating with the US against terrorism since before 911.


and I can tell that you dont watch any news channels except for Fox News, becuase they had telethons to raise money for the families of the 9/11 hijackers.
A female member of the House Saud, was seen donating 25,000 dollars.

I say again....

So what?

The safe haven was never given.
Osama never set foot in Iraq.

Bush proclaimed up and down that Saddam had ties to Al-Qeada.

Turns out that was wrong too.
that's what his cabinet told him.
but the fact that he even offered the safe haven was all the justification we needed for attacking Iraq and ousting Saddam. Iraq is a heck of a lot better now.

and I can tell that you dont watch any news channels except for Fox News, becuase they had telethons to raise money for the families of the 9/11 hijackers.
A female member of the House Saud, was seen donating 25,000 dollars.
the report is out, it don't matter what the news agencies are claiming in their editorials.

that's what his cabinet told him.
but the fact that he even offered the safe haven was all the justification we needed for attacking Iraq and ousting Saddam. Iraq is a heck of a lot better now.


Really?

Al-Qeada exists in Iraq now.

It DIDNT before Bush invaded.

South America harbored Nazi War criminals and we KNEW it.
We didnt invade.
You cannot invade a nation becuase of something they DIDNT do.
Are you mad?

Tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi's are dead..
Who do you think killed them?
WE DID.
Saddam is gone, sure, but the very first thing that The Iraqi Prime Minister has done, is declare MARTIAL LAW.

How free are the Iraqis now?

HOW is ANYTHING better in iraq after this?

Innocents STILL get killed and tortured.

People shoot at one another.

American soldiers are STILL getting killed everyday.

In what way did we make things "better" for the Iraqi people?

the report is out, it don't matter what the news agencies are claiming in their editorials.

This is not news.

These Saudi Telethons happened years ago.
We've known about this for a long time.

Really?

Al-Qeada exists in Iraq now.

It DIDNT before Bush invaded.

South America harbored Nazi War criminals and we KNEW it.
We didnt invade.
You cannot invade a nation becuase of something they DIDNT do.
Are you mad?

Tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi's are dead..
Who do you think killed them?
WE DID.
Saddam is gone, sure, but the very first thing that The Iraqi Prime Minister has done, is declare MARTIAL LAW.

How free are the Iraqis now?

HOW is ANYTHING better in iraq after this?

Innocents STILL get killed and tortured.

People shoot at one another.

American soldiers are STILL getting killed everyday.

In what way did we make things "better" for the Iraqi people?

Why do have so much hate for america? We are not the ones killing the civilians. the f ing terrorists are.

From what I understand the feud between Osama bin Laden and Saddam stems from the fact that bin Laden wanted Iraq to be an islamist fundamentalist state under the control of muslim clerics, but Saddam ( for all his many failings and atrocities ) created a secular Iraq, ffs there was even a synagogue in Baghdad under his reign!
Could anyone explain, exactly, why allowing a synagogue in Iraq should be considered unusual?

Why do have so much hate for america? We are not the ones killing the civilians. the f ing terrorists are.


What??

You dont even know what your saying.

WE are killing those people.
Why would Iraqi terrorists kill them selves??

What do you think happens when we drop bombs into schools?

You think that terrorists are crawling around in the streets and are killing Iraqi people for no good reason?

You think that "Terrorists" are like Gnomes, and they only come out at night?

The U.S military is responsible for the deaths of over ten thousand Iraqi people, many Innocent civillians from the "Shock and Awe" bombing campaign.
many more innocents were simply "mistook" for hostile combatants.

Could anyone explain, exactly, why allowing a synagogue in Iraq should be considered unusual?


Becuase a synagogue is a Jewish temple.
Jews are from Israel, the site of the Muslim Holy land.
they Muslims REALLY hate that the Jews are occupying thier holy land.


Saddam was allowing a Infidels church.

Could anyone explain, exactly, why allowing a synagogue in Iraq should be considered unusual?
Saddam allowed did not allow any religion. He was atheist.

What??

You dont even know what your saying.

WE are killing those people.
Why would Iraqi terrorists kill them selves??

What do you think happens when we drop bombs into schools?

You think that terrorists are crawling around in the streets and are killing Iraqi people for no good reason?

You think that "Terrorists" are like Gnomes, and they only come out at night?

The U.S military is responsible for the deaths of over ten thousand Iraqi people, many Innocent civillians from the "Shock and Awe" bombing campaign.
many more innocents were simply "mistook" for hostile combatants.
Eh, you are the one who don't know what you are saying. I know a lot of people who served in Iraq in this last war.
We did not bomb schools. Nor are we trying to kill civilians.

Eh, you are the one who don't know what you are saying. I know a lot of people who served in Iraq in this last war.
We did not bomb schools. Nor are we trying to kill civilians.


Then you are stupid my freind.
Read the news.
Look at the facts!!

the U.S is responsible for the deaths of ten thousand Iraqi people.

Most of whom were not combatants.

Open your eyes and learn the truth.

Thousands of dead Iraqis over a war wich was not justified!

Becuase a synagogue is a Jewish temple.
Jews are from Israel, the site of the Muslim Holy land.
they Muslims REALLY hate that the Jews are occupying thier holy land.
So Muslims hate Jews? Even the Jews that aren't in Israel, but in Iraq?

Then you are stupid my freind.
Read the news.
Look at the facts!!

the U.S is responsible for the deaths of ten thousand Iraqi people.

Most of whom were not combatants.

Open your eyes and learn the truth.

Thousands of dead Iraqis over a war wich was not justified!
How about we agree to disagree then. Since its already 1;30 in the morning here and we are aren;t going to persuade each other.

So Muslims hate Jews? Even the Jews that aren't in Israel, but in Iraq?


Yep.

Most of them.
Its becuase of Israels treatment of the Palestinians, and the whole Seven Days War thing.

Those two cultures just cant get along, and both lay claim to same Holy Land.
They would probably like to see the other side wither up and die, but so far...they havet started killing each other in large quantities just yet.

Most Muslim nations see the treatment of the Palestinians, and sympathize with thier Muslim brothers, and harbor ill feeling towards the Jews, who are occupying the same land that other Muslim nations view as sacred as well.

So..its a big mess.

How about we agree to disagree then. Since its already 1;30 in the morning here and we are aren;t going to persuade each other.


No.

American troops have killed...are killing..and will continue to kill innocent people in Iraq.

Perhaps not intentionally....but still it continues.

If you dont realize this is happening..there is no hope for you.

No.

American troops have killed...are killing..and will continue to kill innocent people in Iraq.

Perhaps not intentionally....but still it continues.

If you dont realize this is happening..there is no hope for you.
Well, from his own lips.
Ok, whatever you say.
Hating america and hating bush don't make anything you say true.
i'm going to sleep now. bye

Whopee, it's just like the crusades! Common everyone, let's go kill them muslim heretics!


People suck and make me sick. I personally hope every single person here i made an anti-islamic comment and meant it gets punched in the face.

Well, from his own lips.
Ok, whatever you say.
Hating america and hating bush don't make anything you say true.
i'm going to sleep now. bye


Translation: **sticks fingers in ears** I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG! NYEAH!

Most of them.
Its becuase of Israels treatment of the Palestinians, and the whole Seven Days War thing.

Those two cultures just cant get along, and both lay claim to same Holy Land.
They would probably like to see the other side wither up and die, but so far...they havet started killing each other in large quantities just yet.

Most Muslim nations see the treatment of the Palestinians, and sympathize with thier Muslim brothers, and harbor ill feeling towards the Jews, who are occupying the same land that other Muslim nations view as sacred as well.
Hmm. Well if they hate Jews for the way Israelis treat Palestinians, they must really hate the Kuwaitis, Jordanians, Egyptians, and Lebanese for the way they have treated the Palestinians.

Well, from his own lips.
Ok, whatever you say.
Hating america and hating bush don't make anything you say true.
i'm going to sleep now. bye


Hating America?

You snot-nosed little uneducated punk!
How DARE you insult my patriotism just becuase you think that Bush and the Conservative crap youve been fed is the only way to "Love your Country"
My family had been in this country since before it WAS a country, and my forefathers fought and died in every war FOR thier country since the Civil War.

So Yes, I do love this country!
I love it so much that when I see anyone doing the things that Bush has done in its name it makes me mad.

and If I say that innocent people have died becuase of him, you better damn well believe thats true becuase Ive been watching the same news reports you have..(actually you havent been paying attention to the news ...your some 15 year old kid who doesnt even know what the hell hes talking about).

You need to pay attention to whats happening before you make anymore posts on a political based forum.

Why do have so much hate for america? We are not the ones killing the civilians. the f ing terrorists are.
MWAHAHAH! Clicky-clicky. (http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=17199)

Hating America?

You snot-nosed little uneducated punk!
How DARE you insult my patriotism just becuase you think that Bush and the Conservative crap youve been fed is the only way to "Love your Country"
My family had been in this country since before it WAS a country, and my forefathers fought and died in every war FOR thier country since the Civil War.

So Yes, I do love this country!
I love it so much that when I see anyone doing the things that Bush has done in its name it makes me mad.

and If I say that innocent people have died becuase of him, you better damn well believe thats true becuase Ive been watching the same news reports you have..(actually you havent been paying attention to the news ...your some 15 year old kid who doesnt even know what the hell hes talking about).

You need to pay attention to whats happening before you make anymore posts on a political based forum.


I'm not 15 I am twice that.
I know alot of the people in the Congress, and the california legislature, including two of the last governors of California.
I done actual candidacy for Congress, that is how I know those people.
Now I am in the military. That is how I know what you are saying is a crock of bull.
And the you have a wierd way of interpreting the news buddy.

So all that gives you the divine power to say who's unpatriotic and who hates America?

So all that gives you the divine power to say who's unpatriotic and who hates America?
nah, the divine part is from the fact that god told me so. :)

sides, if you consider that video free speech and you think its alright to show it in schools, and ignore your own government official's warning, and think it alright to show kids a video on how to kill americans, jsut because they are americans
well, if that isn't america hating and not patriotic, then I have no idea what is.

Hating America?

You snot-nosed little uneducated punk!
How DARE you insult my patriotism just becuase you think that Bush and the Conservative crap youve been fed is the only way to "Love your Country"
My family had been in this country since before it WAS a country, and my forefathers fought and died in every war FOR thier country since the Civil War.

So Yes, I do love this country!
I love it so much that when I see anyone doing the things that Bush has done in its name it makes me mad.

and If I say that innocent people have died becuase of him, you better damn well believe thats true becuase Ive been watching the same news reports you have..(actually you havent been paying attention to the news ...your some 15 year old kid who doesnt even know what the hell hes talking about).

You need to pay attention to whats happening before you make anymore posts on a political based forum.

So I take it innocents being killed under the regime of Saddam and eventually Uday or Qusay was more acceptable to you then. I mean Iraqi civilians are only important when there is a war, you don't see or hear of the tens of thousands that have died over the past 30 years. The tens of thousands that would have died over the next 50 years and beyond with the continuation of the regime if the war in Iraq was not undertaken.

I assume then you had a better plan to remove Saddam, either that or you were quite happy for murder, torture and rape to continue unchecked as long as it wasn't on television and as long as some of those killed were not Americans.

You guys are obsessed with this.

I'm not 15 I am twice that.
I know alot of the people in the Congress, and the california legislature, including two of the last governors of California.
I done actual candidacy for Congress, that is how I know those people.
Now I am in the military. That is how I know what you are saying is a crock of bull.
And the you have a wierd way of interpreting the news buddy.

If you are in the military you are an insult to the uniform you wear. Ignorance is a soldiers worst enemy.
One of my best freinds came back from Iraq two months ago. He swears up and down that he will never go back. He would rather go to jail.
Lots of civilians are dying over there. From our bullets and bombs. Lots of soldiers are dying over there too or are coming home badly wounded and missing parts.
He's been in Afghanistan, he's been in Bosnia, but after what he saw every single day in Iraq, it took the desire to kill the "enemy" out of him.
Next time you seen an child of non-caucasian decent. Try to imagine sitting in a truck and shooting them, cause thats whats happening in Iraq. Not on purpose, but when the dust clears, those are the results. Dead and maimed children and civilians who never wanted the US in their country anymore then they wanted Saddam running it. Iraq is not better off. Its just got a prettier political face on it cause the great and goodly Americans are there to save everyone.
Ask the screaming mothers and mutilated innocents if they feel saved if you go over there. I'd bet my life they say no...
Maybe ask some of your congressmen friends to send their kids into the military and to Iraq, see how many politely tell you to "go away" or "no thanks."
Quite bluntly, you are the perfect type of soldier that GWB loves. Dedicated, ignorant, and stupid enough to believe every word he says like its holy scripture.

If you are in the military you are an insult to the uniform you wear. Ignorance is a soldiers worst enemy.
One of my best freinds came back from Iraq two months ago. He swears up and down that he will never go back. He would rather go to jail.
Lots of civilians are dying over there. From our bullets and bombs. Lots of soldiers are dying over there too or are coming home badly wounded and missing parts.
He's been in Afghanistan, he's been in Bosnia, but after what he saw every single day in Iraq, it took the desire to kill the "enemy" out of him.
Next time you seen an child of non-caucasian decent. Try to imagine sitting in a truck and shooting them, cause thats whats happening in Iraq. Not on purpose, but when the dust clears, those are the results. Dead and maimed children and civilians who never wanted the US in their country anymore then they wanted Saddam running it. Iraq is not better off. Its just got a prettier political face on it cause the great and goodly Americans are there to save everyone.
Ask the screaming mothers and mutilated innocents if they feel saved if you go over there. I'd bet my life they say no...
Maybe ask some of your congressmen friends to send their kids into the military and to Iraq, see how many politely tell you to "go away" or "no thanks."
Quite bluntly, you are the perfect type of soldier that GWB loves. Dedicated, ignorant, and stupid enough to believe every word he says like its holy scripture.

Were you ever in the military?
No? If not then you have no place to say anything.
Blind obediance to the bush hating camp is everyone's worst enemy.
You don't join the military just to get a college scholarship, you do it to defend your nation and its interests, even if it means invading another country.

If you are in the military you are an insult to the uniform you wear. Ignorance is a soldiers worst enemy.
One of my best freinds came back from Iraq two months ago. He swears up and down that he will never go back. He would rather go to jail.
Lots of civilians are dying over there. From our bullets and bombs. Lots of soldiers are dying over there too or are coming home badly wounded and missing parts.
He's been in Afghanistan, he's been in Bosnia, but after what he saw every single day in Iraq, it took the desire to kill the "enemy" out of him.
Next time you seen an child of non-caucasian decent. Try to imagine sitting in a truck and shooting them, cause thats whats happening in Iraq. Not on purpose, but when the dust clears, those are the results. Dead and maimed children and civilians who never wanted the US in their country anymore then they wanted Saddam running it. Iraq is not better off. Its just got a prettier political face on it cause the great and goodly Americans are there to save everyone.
Ask the screaming mothers and mutilated innocents if they feel saved if you go over there. I'd bet my life they say no...
Maybe ask some of your congressmen friends to send their kids into the military and to Iraq, see how many politely tell you to "go away" or "no thanks."
Quite bluntly, you are the perfect type of soldier that GWB loves. Dedicated, ignorant, and stupid enough to believe every word he says like its holy scripture.

I return that challenge but instead talking to the families of the maimed and killed from terrorist attacks.
Congressmen cannot send their kids to Iraq, they would have to volunteer to join the military.

I return that challenge but instead talking to the families of the maimed and killed from terrorist attacks.
Congressmen cannot send their kids to Iraq, they would have to volunteer to join the military.
And the kids would have to do it voluntarily.

Blind Obedience PERIOD is bad, mmmkay?

....
Maybe ask some of your congressmen friends to send their kids into the military and to Iraq, see how many politely tell you to "go away" or "no thanks."

A calculation of the liklihood that a Congressman's child will involved in Iraq compared with the general population"

"We then see that of 535 Congressional families, there are two with a child who served in Iraq. How does this compare with American families in general? In the summer of 2003, U.S. troop levels in Iraq were raised to 145,000. If we factor in troop rotation, we could estimate that about 300,000 people have served in Iraq at some point. According to the Census Bureau, there were 104,705,000 households in the United States in 2000. (See Table 1 of the Census Report.) So the ratio of ordinary U.S. households to Iraqi service personnel is 104,705,000 to 300,000. This reduces to a ratio of 349:1.

In contrast the ratio of Congressional households to Iraqi service personnel is 535:2. This reduces to a ratio of 268:1.

Stated another way, a Congressional household is about 23 percent more likely than an ordinary household to be closely related to an Iraqi serviceman or servicewoman."

Source: http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

This was a worst case scenario calculation with regard to the Congressmen.

I'm not 15 I am twice that.
I know alot of the people in the Congress, and the california legislature, including two of the last governors of California.
I done actual candidacy for Congress, that is how I know those people.
Now I am in the military. That is how I know what you are saying is a crock of bull.
And the you have a wierd way of interpreting the news buddy.
So whatcha doing haranguing in the internet? Shouldn't you now be in Mesopotamian trenches, shining the Beackon of Freedom up the (un)grateful Iraqi recta?

And the kids would have to do it voluntarily.

Yes,thats what I meant. The child of the Congressman would have to volunteer themselves. Their fathers cannot send them to Iraq.

So whatcha doing haranguing in the internet? Shouldn't you now be in Mesopotamian trenches, shining the Beackon of Freedom up the (un)grateful Iraqi recta?

What an moronic comment.

What an moronic comment.
What can I say? Not everyone is fortunate enough to have been born a board-certified Australian genius like yourself. But would I be happier if, after talking so much talk, Whittier walks the walk in 'Raq? Hell, yeah.

What can I say? Not everyone is fortunate enough to have been born a board-certified Australian genius like yourself. But would I be happier if, after talking so much talk, Whittier walks the walk in 'Raq? Hell, yeah.

You have no idea what his role in the military is so who are you to cast dispersions over his character. It was pathetic cheapshot from someone who has nothing to offer the discussion.

So I take it innocents being killed under the regime of Saddam and eventually Uday or Qusay was more acceptable to you then. I mean Iraqi civilians are only important when there is a war, you don't see or hear of the tens of thousands that have died over the past 30 years. The tens of thousands that would have died over the next 50 years and beyond with the continuation of the regime if the war in Iraq was not undertaken.

I assume then you had a better plan to remove Saddam, either that or you were quite happy for murder, torture and rape to continue unchecked as long as it wasn't on television and as long as some of those killed were not Americans.


Absolutely not.

However, I dont see where anything has changed.
There are still Iraqi citizens being tortured, and raped, and murdered, arent there?

Is this what you call liberation?
I call it "Meet the new Boss...Same as the old Boss."

Bush makes a pitiful attempt to proclaim how much better the Iraqi people are, and how much safer we are....but are we?

Not according to recent headlines we arent.

So..if it wasnt about liberating the Iraqis...or WMD's.....then what was it over?

Money.

Absolutely not.

However, I dont see where anything has changed.
There are still Iraqi citizens being tortured, and raped, and murdered, arent there?

Is this what you call liberation?
I call it "Meet the new Boss...Same as the old Boss."

Bush makes a pitiful attempt to proclaim how much better the Iraqi people are, and how much safer we are....but are we?

Not according to recent headlines we arent.

So..if it wasnt about liberating the Iraqis...or WMD's.....then what was it over?

Money.

Yes, of course..Bush should have got his magic wand out after Saddam was ousted and made it all perfect. Give me a break. It took decades to rebuild Germany after WWII yet you expect instant results in Iraq.

What money? Oil? The US won't even recoup what the war cost from Iraqi oil. If it was a war based on making a profit then it was not a very wise investment. Despite your dislike of Bush and his government you cannot tell me they decided to go to war to lose money...could you?

You have no idea what his role in the military is so who are you to cast dispersions over his character. It was pathetic cheapshot from someone who has nothing to offer the discussion.
Dear Mr Australian Genius,
I couldn't have possibly "cast dispersions over" Mr Whittier, as the proper phrase to use is "to cast aspersions on" Mr Whittier. Consider that my contribution to your education, sir.

As for Mr Whittier's job in the military, I've no idea, really. Perhaps he's guarding them, surplus Air Force planes parked in the desert, lest those sneaky Mexicans spirit them away. But if he is so eager to deny those not in the U.S. military the right to speak on Iraq ("Were you ever in the military?
No? If not then you have no place to say anything." [that, to a guy who simply reported the sentiments of a GI who just came back from 'Raq]. -- Not that Mr Whittier's maleness ever prevented him from speaking his mind on abortion, for instance.), then perhaps he should give an example of "true patriotism", commitment to the military, God, country, Bush, &c., by volunteering for a spell in the sand-fly infested Iraqi boondocks. Surely, such an act would shut up his critics for good (not to mention, bring tears of joy to the faces of all Iraqis)?

Dear Mr Australian Genius,
I couldn't have possibly "cast dispersions over" Mr Whittier, as the proper phrase to use is "to cast aspersions on" Mr Whittier. Consider that my contribution to your education, sir.

Thanks for the tip but it has nothing to do with the subject being discussed. And I never claimed to be a genius. It does not take genius to stick to the discussion topic and refrain from stupid comments about things you have no idea about such as Whittier's military role.

As for Mr Whittier's job in the military, I've no idea, really.

My point exactly.

Perhaps he's guarding them, surplus Air Force planes parked in the desert, lest those sneaky Mexicans spirit them away.

No, you were right in the above statement. You have no idea. Sarcastic comments like that confirm the stupidity I referred to earlier.

But if he is so eager to deny those not in the U.S. military the right to speak on Iraq ("Were you ever in the military?

I don't recall him saying noone could comment. He did say that he felt his views were right due to his involvement in the military. More precisely he said that another poster's view was a "crock of bull". His opinion and he is entitled to it.

No? If not then you have no place to say anything." [that, to a guy who simply reported the sentiments of a GI who just came back from 'Raq]. -- Not that Mr Whittier's maleness ever prevented him from speaking his mind on abortion, for instance.), then perhaps he should give an example of "true patriotism", commitment to the military, God, country, Bush, &c., by volunteering for a spell in the sand-fly infested Iraqi boondocks. Surely, such an act would shut up his critics for good (not to mention, bring tears of joy to the faces of all Iraqis)?

Whether I have been in the military or not is irrelevant. Whittier did not say noone was allowed to comment unless they were in the military. He expressed that his views were valid as he had military experience. Whether you accept that or not is up to you. Making stupid comments about what he does with his time in the military has no relevance whatsoever to the topic.
As for the rest of that drivel, it is not worth responding to inane ramblings.

Alright, granted I only read to about page 7/8 of this thread before posting, my stomach couldn't handle much more constantly repeating hate this time of the morning, so if i missed anything important which would have replenished my faith in mankind, please feel free to set me right but, jesus.

Guys, this is a fucked up thread, packed absolutely full of different kinds of hate thrown in every direction, and if this is a vision of our world right now, then I'm afraid we are all doomed.



Just my terribly misinformed, barely thought through, genuinely invalid viewpoint, carry on.

Dear Mr Australian Genius,
I couldn't have possibly "cast dispersions over" Mr Whittier, as the proper phrase to use is "to cast aspersions on" Mr Whittier. Consider that my contribution to your education, sir.

As for Mr Whittier's job in the military, I've no idea, really. Perhaps he's guarding them, surplus Air Force planes parked in the desert, lest those sneaky Mexicans spirit them away. But if he is so eager to deny those not in the U.S. military the right to speak on Iraq ("Were you ever in the military?
No? If not then you have no place to say anything." [that, to a guy who simply reported the sentiments of a GI who just came back from 'Raq]. -- Not that Mr Whittier's maleness ever prevented him from speaking his mind on abortion, for instance.), then perhaps he should give an example of "true patriotism", commitment to the military, God, country, Bush, &c., by volunteering for a spell in the sand-fly infested Iraqi boondocks. Surely, such an act would shut up his critics for good (not to mention, bring tears of joy to the faces of all Iraqis)?

You might get your wish. Sometime this year.

Yes, of course..Bush should have got his magic wand out after Saddam was ousted and made it all perfect. Give me a break. It took decades to rebuild Germany after WWII yet you expect instant results in Iraq.

What money? Oil? The US won't even recoup what the war cost from Iraqi oil. If it was a war based on making a profit then it was not a very wise investment. Despite your dislike of Bush and his government you cannot tell me they decided to go to war to lose money...could you?


Do you think Haliburton is losing money from the Iraqi war?
Or any of the Saudi Oil barons that Bush is doing business with?

Magic wand?
No..but I didnt expect that Bush would capture Hussein and then do the very same things to the Iraqi people that Saddam did.

I am in a support role. But I can't go into much detail.

Do you think Haliburton is losing money from the Iraqi war?
Or any of the Saudi Oil barons that Bush is doing business with?

The same Saudi oil barons that have been doing business with the US government for years? The same Saudi oil barons who opposed the war in Iraq because they did not want the competition from the opening of the Iraqi oil industry? The same Saudi oil barons whose government forced the US to relocate the military command to Qatar?

Magic wand?
No..but I didnt expect that Bush would capture Hussein and then do the very same things to the Iraqi people that Saddam did.

The same things that Saddam was doing? Such as. Show me the evidence that George Bush is doing to the Iraqis what Saddam did. The very same things. I would be interested to see the US hanging cilvilians of meathooks and torturing them with blow torches. I would be interested in seeing the huge palaces being built for George W in Baghdad while the Iraqis die of disease and starvation.

I just go where ever they send me. They don't give you a choice of where to go. You go where they tell you.
I was in Korea when I found out about this site.
For a year.
There will be no Korean war, but there will be a peaceful Korean reunification.
koreans don't hate americans. Though the media and the liberals were saying that they did.
There were no riots last year except in Seoul which is practically right next to the DMZ which constantly being crossed by NK provacateurs who pay high school students to protest in favor of NK rule.
Where I was stationed, which was in a small town, there were no anti american protests. In Daegu, which was a major city (and korea's fashion capital) there were no anti american protests or riots. Everyone in Korea likes the the United States. They feel the United States is like a brother country.
South Koreans feel that americans are their relatives. (That's the best way I could find to put it.)
Korean women, prefer American men to any other other nationality.
There is a lot of sexual slavery. For that reason, American military personnel are no longer allowed to go to most of the clubs or bars in Korea cause most of them use forced labor and use girls under 15 for prostitutes. And if you are in the US military and you know they are held against their will, you are officially barred by Uncle Sam from doing anything to liberate them.
Human trafficking is the second greatest evil of our time, after terrorism and no one is addressing it. Not the US, not the self righteous europeans, not the australians, not the japs. No one.
But when I get out in one year, if I win my bid for Senate, I will.
I will do something about it. And those nations that refuse that are harbors for human traffickers had better change their ways or face american bombs.
That is why is I made the 5 greatest evils list. I will be using it.
According to recent stats, the US has over 300,000 people being held as sexual slaves. But its not a priority for US law enforcement.
According to recent stats, Mexico is the sex slave capital of the world. And yes some of those slaves hold US citizenship, but our government which is friendly with mexico has decided its none of our business.
Even in England this is happening. And in germany, france, russia, china, indonesia, latin america.

I have seen women raped and then thrown off a bridge while a very large crowd cheered the attackers on. Not in korea, but in the US of A.
I have seen children beaten and stabbed to death in broaddaylight and no body did anything to stop it. The police weren't even called.
I have seen American police pull over a black congressman just because he was black. This in a supposedly liberal community dedicated to civil rights.
Racial profiling is a big problem in America that no one is addressing. It like racism, is evil and should be banned.
I have seen people with out even a high school diploma get admitted to a public university all expenses paid, even though they came from well to do families, simply because they were black or hispanic.
I was once refused service at a grocery store in Southern California, cause I was not a mexican. How's that for racism? Being discriminated against on the basis of your skin color in your own country.
I have seen women have abortions because their husbands or boyfriends said they would dump them if they didn't. I have seen parents coerce their daughters into having abortions. Freedom of choice, eh, must only apply if you want to abort, not if the woman wants to keep.
I was the lone protestor when the government seized the land of a very elderly couple and gave away to a privately owned corporation without the corporation paying a cent for the land. And the judge in the case being a close friend of one the city council members that was involved.
I witnessed an entire land of people say it was alright for Janet Reno to send in the FBI to beat up on little kids. Just cause she was serving under Clinton.
I saw Clinton get away with selling our national security secrets to Red China for personal profit. They didn't even impeach him for it. No they impeached form some frivoulous crap instead. And he is still walking around a free man.
If none of those things are evil then I don't know what is.

I have seen a many great evil first hand. The kind of evils that make you want to puke your guts out.
I am determined to do battle against them. I was once told, by female friend, that you can't defeat evil. That evil will always exist.
My answer:
No. But I can sure as hell try.

wow, that was the nastiest 11 pages i have ever forced myself to read :)

damnit,Detsl-stan, why did ya have to go sounding all australian-bashing, cause as a new zealander i feel its my duty to side with an aussie...(even if up till that point Tygaland was starting to seriouslly piss me off).

ok, the rap video was fucked....that much was obvious, even though i havnt had the chance to watch it cause fuck waiting for dial up.

And yes, a shit load of people have died in Iraq since the end of the war.

Also a shit load of people died before the war.

And their are alot of countrys in the world that have people in them who would like nothing better than to sit next to Whittier on a bus, then blow themselves up.

And alot more people are gonna die in Iraq before this thing is resolved.

Now Mr Bush may not seem to be the smartest cab off the rack, but the fact is we are stuck with him for now, and democracy aint that marvellous that getting mad at each other on a message board will change a thing.

And as for that "invade the UK" , and "US supreme court shourt rule UK" bullshit, you were fucking kidding werent you? right? cause that is the most bullshit i have ever read anytime , anyplace, ever!!!! Its statments like that that make coutrys "hate america".

Now before i get called an america hater, i aint, i happen to like america alot, and have lots of american friends......but that doesnt mean that i aint allowed to hate the war in iraq. that doesnt mean i aint allowed to question the reason for why we are currently at war.

the world is fucked, and it is fulled with fucked people....but i will be fucked if i am going to let it get to me.

P.s. I live in Western Australia, not new zealand, who didnt send troops (but they did catch some mossad agents the other day), and fully support all australian and allied troops currently serving in the war against terrorism.

I dont neccessarily support those who took it upon themselves to hurridly send these troops off to a war that seems more suss everyday.


(sorry for the long rant, but i just read all 11 pages , and by now i had way too much stored up to say.)

wow, that was the nastiest 11 pages i have ever forced myself to read :)

damnit,Detsl-stan, why did ya have to go sounding all australian-bashing, cause as a new zealander i feel its my duty to side with an aussie...(even if up till that point Tygaland was starting to seriouslly piss me off).

ok, the rap video was fucked....that much was obvious, even though i havnt had the chance to watch it cause fuck waiting for dial up.

And yes, a shit load of people have died in Iraq since the end of the war.

Also a shit load of people died before the war.

And their are alot of countrys in the world that have people in them who would like nothing better than to sit next to Whittier on a bus, then blow themselves up.

And alot more people are gonna die in Iraq before this thing is resolved.

Now Mr Bush may not seem to be the smartest cab off the rack, but the fact is we are stuck with him for now, and democracy aint that marvellous that getting mad at each other on a message board will change a thing.

And as for that "invade the UK" , and "US supreme court shourt rule UK" bullshit, you were fucking kidding werent you? right? cause that is the most bullshit i have ever read anytime , anyplace, ever!!!! Its statments like that that make coutrys "hate america".

Now before i get called an america hater, i aint, i happen to like america alot, and have lots of american friends......but that doesnt mean that i aint allowed to hate the war in iraq. that doesnt mean i aint allowed to question the reason for why we are currently at war.

the world is fucked, and it is fulled with fucked people....but i will be fucked if i am going to let it get to me.

P.s. I live in Western Australia, not new zealand, who didnt send troops (but they did catch some mossad agents the other day), and fully support all australian and allied troops currently serving in the war against terrorism.

I dont neccessarily support those who took it upon themselves to hurridly send these troops off to a war that seems more suss everyday.


(sorry for the long rant, but i just read all 11 pages , and by now i had way too much stored up to say.)

The world needs to get unfucked. But it won't happen with the dems or the reps. And yeah, I was kidding about the UK part, that should have been obvious. Allies don't attack allies.

i think its religon.....

nothing else seems to have the power that religon does when it come to justifying stuff like killing people


so as long as theres religon, im prepared to see a fucked world


mayve its time to just shut the doors on the middle east and wait for them all to kill themselves off..........but that wouldnt work either....

where the heck did I say that shit?

Third sentence in your orignial post - the very first one in the thread - you said:

British laws against racial strife are enforced only against whites.

Do you not read even your own posts?

God will especially reward those who martyr themselves to destroy His enemies (muslims being a major enemy of God)


The fact that the Muslims worship the very same God as the Jews and the Christians is irrelevant, is it?

damnit,Detsl-stan, why did ya have to go sounding all australian-bashing, cause as a new zealander i feel its my duty to side with an aussie...(even if up till that point Tygaland was starting to seriouslly piss me off).


How so? By saying the "rap video" was a disgrace and should be banned? By asking BackwoodsSquatches for their plan to remove Saddam seeing as everything else that was done was wrong in their view? By suggesting an unfounded cheapshot by Detsl-stan was uncalled for? If that pisses you off you must really have a hard time when reading these forums.

How so? By saying the "rap video" was a disgrace and should be banned? By asking BackwoodsSquatches for their plan to remove Saddam seeing as everything else that was done was wrong in their view? By suggesting an unfounded cheapshot by Detsl-stan was uncalled for? If that pisses you off you must really have a hard time when reading these forums.

nah, it wasnt the video thing.

it was mainly to do with your tone.....ya seem, well , a bit worked up.

This whole thing is starting to seem a little pointless, i mean , unless mr bush, mr blair or osama bin laden are either gonna read this, or get told about our views.....then is there really all that much point expressing them, much less getting all worked up about what someone else has written?

nah, it wasnt the video thing.

it was mainly to do with your tone.....ya seem, well , a bit worked up.

This whole thing is starting to seem a little pointless, i mean , unless mr bush, mr blair or osama bin laden are either gonna read this, or get told about our views.....then is there really all that much point expressing them, much less getting all worked up about what someone else has written?

I wasn't worked up. I find underhanded attempts at character assassination using baseless attacks to be the lowest form of debate. Hence I took Detsl-stan to task on it. Its unnecessary.

As far as the video goes, I was amazed how a few people glossed over it as though it wasn't a big deal. Thats why I posted some strong words about it. It is a big deal that such "rap videos" are being played to muslim youth in the UK and it should be stopped.

The whole point of these forums is for people to express their views and discuss issues. If we all shut up because noone in power was listening then whats the point of the forums?

You are going to find people more "worked up" than me on these forums!

It is a big deal that such "rap videos" are being played to muslim youth in the UK and it should be stopped.

Ah, so Muslim youth in the UK are unable to watch such stuff without being taken in by it, whereas you are able to view it without negative effect... so, are we to conclude from this that you are smarter than Muslim youth in the UK?

Ah, so Muslim youth in the UK are unable to watch such stuff without being taken in by it, whereas you are able to view it without negative effect... so, are we to conclude from this that you are smarter than Muslim youth in the UK?

I didn't say that. In fact I said nothing even close to that. If there was a Muslim youth in a situation where they were vulnerable then it may sway them. If it convinces even one person to join a terrorist cell then thats one too many.
There was an article posted earlier in the thread where a Muslim cleric said it was very popular with youth in his mosques. Do you not find that alarming? What possible service could such a video serve other than to incite terrorism? Have you seen the clip? I don't think anyone should see crap like that regardless of their age or religion...it has no place.
Would you be so accepting of the video if it promoted killing blacks or Jewish people or homosexuals?

Ah, so Muslim youth in the UK are unable to watch such stuff without being taken in by it, whereas you are able to view it without negative effect... so, are we to conclude from this that you are smarter than Muslim youth in the UK?

Bodies Without Organs, of course Tygaland has had a negative effect to watching that bloody video. or did you think he was having a posative rant about the bloody thing.

shit, hyperthetical time.....Bodies Without Organs, what would you think if Eminem released a song/video all about raping muslem women, killing their men and how fucking fantastic that would be for us all to do.

i bet you would think it would be sorta wrong.... i guess....cause i would , and i like that stoopid bloody music.

and Tygaland , thanks for the heads up.....

When those groups promote these films, and promote the murder of americans, they are terrorists. ANd they should all be executed.

And you would risk making them martyrs for the cause. You are a fool.

The fact that they murder others does not give you the right to murder them...

and Tygaland , thanks for the heads up.....

No problem

And you would risk making them martyrs for the cause. You are a fool.

The fact that they murder others does not give you the right to murder them...

I agree. That said, the people that were involved in this clip should be tried to the full extent of the law in the UK.

An eye for an eye makes the World go blind.

As for that video, I'm British, and I had never even heard of it. I'd like you to know you've offended me, however I'm a fair person unlike you, and it won't damage my perception of America.

Ah, so Muslim youth in the UK are unable to watch such stuff without being taken in by it, whereas you are able to view it without negative effect... so, are we to conclude from this that you are smarter than Muslim youth in the UK?
i would say it, those people who think with emotion who watch that would easily be goded into fanaticism since they are already in a strong religion, same with most any religion

And you would risk making them martyrs for the cause. You are a fool.

The fact that they murder others does not give you the right to murder them...
which is why goerg w. bush, dick cheney, and arial sharon are incompetent jackasses.
you cant kill the terrorists and make the mstop, thats not how you kill a hydra. they use propaganda to incite hatred, by killing them we are just helping, we have ot use our own counter propaganda

While a latecommer, I find the American actions in both videos appalling. Furthermore, I found the second video to be mildly entertaining - a great propoganda tool for possible Islamic militants to convince them to "join the fight", if that is really the true nature of this video. While it isn't exactly politically correct, or even ethical to some people, for someone to use images the way this group did - there is nothing inheritently wrong with it. No one said anything about terrorism, and either way - terrorism is just another means of war. You tell me if you were outnumbered, outgunned, and completely outmatched that you wouldn't resort to guerilla / terrorist attacks to fight the fight - and I'll say you are lieing. *shrug*

that's what his cabinet told him.
but the fact that he even offered the safe haven was all the justification we needed for attacking Iraq and ousting Saddam. Iraq is a heck of a lot better now.

I'd have to say I'd prefer to live under Saddam Hussein than George Bush. Saddam was a staunch Arab Nationalist who firmly supported his people.

Bush is a compassionate conservative, compassionate for everybody except his own people. He's given away literally millions of jobs to India, Pakistan, China, Mexico, Brazil, etc. He gives companies who outsource tax breaks.

Then there is his amnesty for illegal aliens plan, he wants to put more real americans out of work by giving their jobs to illegals.

Would you be so accepting of the video if it promoted killing blacks or Jewish people or homosexuals?

I believe in letting idiocy stand or fall according to its own merits - censoring stuff like this actually just makes it seem more attractive to disaffected youth.

I believe in letting idiocy stand or fall according to its own merits - censoring stuff like this actually just makes it seem more attractive to disaffected youth.

So how many innocent lives need to be lost before the idiocy takes its course?

I'm going.

I'd have to say I'd prefer to live under Saddam Hussein than George Bush. Saddam was a staunch Arab Nationalist who firmly supported his people.

You must be joking.

Bush is a compassionate conservative, compassionate for everybody except his own people. He's given away literally millions of jobs to India, Pakistan, China, Mexico, Brazil, etc. He gives companies who outsource tax breaks.

Then there is his amnesty for illegal aliens plan, he wants to put more real americans out of work by giving their jobs to illegals.

Do you think outsourcing is a US-only phenomenon? While I do not agree with outsourcing it hardly makes Saddam a more attractive leader!!

Do you not consider that by having an amnesty on illegals that the companies that employ them will have to pay them at least minimum wage rather than the pittance they are paid now. Therefore the companies will have no reason to employ illegals over American citizens. Keeping it as an under-the-table payment creates the cheap labour source illegals provide. By allowing illegals to declare themselves, this cheap labour source is removed.

While a latecommer, I find the American actions in both videos appalling. Furthermore, I found the second video to be mildly entertaining - a great propoganda tool for possible Islamic militants to convince them to "join the fight", if that is really the true nature of this video. While it isn't exactly politically correct, or even ethical to some people, for someone to use images the way this group did - there is nothing inheritently wrong with it. No one said anything about terrorism, and either way - terrorism is just another means of war. You tell me if you were outnumbered, outgunned, and completely outmatched that you wouldn't resort to guerilla / terrorist attacks to fight the fight - and I'll say you are lieing. *shrug*

The first video is war. Its not paint-ball, you kill the enemy. So while it may be unsettling the first video is hardly apalling, it is the reality of war.

The initial section of the "rap video" where the soldier says how good it is to kill an enemy soldier is unsettling, I agree.
As for saying the "rap video" does not say anything about terrorism, did you see the whole clip? Did you read the titles on the pictures and footage they used? How you can say a video that incites people to kill someone is not inherently wrong is beyond belief.

Dear Temporary (and I hope that you ARE), assuming you are not American (and I certainly hope that you AREN'T), you seemingly would make a fine Nazi with those ideas. Brilliant! Everyone who disagrees, declare them terrorists and kill the bastards! What a great way to trim the world's excess population. Too bad that YOU might be on someone else's terrorist list, unfortunately. This is exactly what Osama and his ilk want, that WE become like them. Yes, I don't like schoolchildren being brainwashed, but did you ever stop to consider that you Yourself might have been "brainwashed" by government "propaganda"? In America, we have the myth of Honest Abe (Lincoln), George "I cannot tell a lie" Washington (after allegedly chopping down a cherry tree as a kid), and the old "We're the Good Guys" revisionists of American history. Other countries have similar myths that are taught to their schoolchildren. Like it or not, this is reality. First, make sure YOU haven't been brainwashed, then try to be a bit more realistic yourself. Also, try a little compassion. It won't hurt, believe me.

Dear Temporary (and I hope that you ARE), assuming you are not American (and I certainly hope that you AREN'T), you seemingly would make a fine Nazi with those ideas. Brilliant! Everyone who disagrees, declare them terrorists and kill the bastards! What a great way to trim the world's excess population. Too bad that YOU might be on someone else's terrorist list, unfortunately. This is exactly what Osama and his ilk want, that WE become like them. Yes, I don't like schoolchildren being brainwashed, but did you ever stop to consider that you Yourself might have been "brainwashed" by government "propaganda"? In America, we have the myth of Honest Abe (Lincoln), George "I cannot tell a lie" Washington (after allegedly chopping down a cherry tree as a kid), and the old "We're the Good Guys" revisionists of American history. Other countries have similar myths that are taught to their schoolchildren. Like it or not, this is reality. First, make sure YOU haven't been brainwashed, then try to be a bit more realistic yourself. Also, try a little compassion. It won't hurt, believe me.

Whatever you say, al qaeda sympathizer.

Dear Temporary (and I hope that you ARE), assuming you are not American (and I certainly hope that you AREN'T), you seemingly would make a fine Nazi with those ideas. Brilliant! Everyone who disagrees, declare them terrorists and kill the bastards! What a great way to trim the world's excess population. Too bad that YOU might be on someone else's terrorist list, unfortunately. This is exactly what Osama and his ilk want, that WE become like them. Yes, I don't like schoolchildren being brainwashed, but did you ever stop to consider that you Yourself might have been "brainwashed" by government "propaganda"? In America, we have the myth of Honest Abe (Lincoln), George "I cannot tell a lie" Washington (after allegedly chopping down a cherry tree as a kid), and the old "We're the Good Guys" revisionists of American history. Other countries have similar myths that are taught to their schoolchildren. Like it or not, this is reality. First, make sure YOU haven't been brainwashed, then try to be a bit more realistic yourself. Also, try a little compassion. It won't hurt, believe me.

Yes, you are right. Inciting people to join terror networks and murder is fine. Thank you so much for helping me see the light. :headbang:

Bro, I ain't read this thread, but there better not be no dissin' of George W. Bush!

Bro, I ain't read this thread, but there better not be no dissin' of George W. Bush!
Not this again. :P

So uhhh, whats going on? I'll just ramble and say That Video is certainly not from Al QEADA. It makes references to to things that Al QEADA wouldnt. And its designed to shock, not to recruit. Which is probably why its popular.

Does anyone know who actually made it?

So uhhh, whats going on? I'll just ramble and say That Video is certainly not from Al QEADA. It makes references to to things that Al QEADA wouldnt. And its designed to shock, not to recruit. Which is probably why its popular.

Does anyone know who actually made it?

I don't think Al Qaeda made the viseo but it would not surprise me if they were involved in its distribution.
I disagree with you that it is not to recruit but only to shock. The statements that are displayed during the clip clearly call for the killing of "crusaders" and "infidels" and says to send them back in bodybags.
I cannot see a purpose for such a video other than to incite terrorist attacks.

Bro, I ain't read this thread, but there better not be no dissin' of George W. Bush!
they are dissin Bush by supporting terror groups.

Whatever you say, al qaeda sympathizer.

That'll show him. Shame that MCCarthy fellow died, you know. He'd have his hands full right now. Although, I'm sure you would've loved to be his assistant.


..........

Asshole.

I don't recall him saying noone could comment. He did say that he felt his views were right due to his involvement in the military. More precisely he said that another poster's view was a "crock of bull". His opinion and he is entitled to it.
In case ADD or some other ailment prevented you from seeing it the first time around, I repeat the pertinent bit from Whittier's "response" to Cancadia: "Were you ever in the military? No? If not then you have no place to say anything."[/b]

-- Perhaps that and the crock-of-bull comments qualifies as "offering something to the discussion" by your lights. I am, of course, no genius who adorns the English language with curious phrases, such as "casting dispersions" and "noone" (how do you pronounce that? -- [i]nooh-neh?), but let me say that if Mr Whittier chooses to lecture at length on abortion then he has no business disqualifying anyone from speaking their mind on U.S. military or Iraq.

In case ADD or some other ailment prevented you from seeing it the first time around, I repeat the pertinent bit from Whittier's "response" to Cancadia: "Were you ever in the military? No? If not then you have no place to say anything."[/b]

-- Perhaps that and the crock-of-bull comments qualifies as "offering something to the discussion" by your lights. I am, of course, no genius who adorns the English language with curious phrases, such as "casting dispersions" and "noone" (how do you pronounce that? -- [i]nooh-neh?), but let me say that if Mr Whittier chooses to lecture at length on abortion then he has no business disqualifying anyone from speaking their mind on U.S. military or Iraq.
This has nothing to do with abortion. And you were supporting what the terrorists are doing in Iraq. You were spreading false information.
Let me that qoute you keep throwing around into the proper context since the puny brain of yours won't.
"Were you ever in the military? No? If not then you have no place to criticize anything."

There, I have replaced the word so you can understand the statement now.

Just a few comments on some of the posts on this thread

Define Terrorism.

As acording to international law its illegal to invade another country but it IS legal to fight and kill the invader.

Did it come as a sudden revelation that Sadam was a power hungry fuckup.
If not why you suported sadam during the whole 1980-1988 iran iraq war.

Why cant you realize that the US of A dont go to war out of altruism but out of Political and Economical agenda.

Its no different from what most millitary superior empires have done it doesnt make it moraly right tho.

Flax

You might get your wish. Sometime this year.
Very well, then. I'll be interested to see if time in Iraq changes your and New Auburnland's views of the Bush/Cheney/Rummy MidEast policy.

In case ADD or some other ailment prevented you from seeing it the first time around, I repeat the pertinent bit from Whittier's "response" to Cancadia: "Were you ever in the military? No? If not then you have no place to say anything."[/b]

I did miss that post but your insults are not necessary. Seems you cannot attempt to make a point without insulting people. Regardless it still does not justify your comments belittling his role in the military when you have no idea what he does.

-- Perhaps that and the crock-of-bull comments qualifies as "offering something to the discussion" by your lights. I am, of course, no genius who adorns the English language with curious phrases, such as "casting dispersions" and "noone" (how do you pronounce that? -- [i]nooh-neh?), but let me say that if Mr Whittier chooses to lecture at length on abortion then he has no business disqualifying anyone from speaking their mind on U.S. military or Iraq.

It is his point of view about someone's comments. Not a baseless remark about their character.
The word is noone, or if you prefer no-one. It is simple to pronounce. It seems you cannot discuss the topic of the thread and are only able to attempt to insult people on this thread.

Very well, then. I'll be interested to see if time in Iraq changes your and New Auburnland's views of the Bush/Cheney/Rummy MidEast policy.
?
I fully supported Bush when I was running for Congress back in 2000.
The cause in Iraq is fully justified.

?
The cause in Iraq is fully justified.

In what way.

You can't ride in on the UN alias as the un where against an invation.

You didnt find WMD's

You didnt invade when he was killing kurds back in the eighties, then he was your ally in the middle east.

There isnt any reliable link to AQ as stated in the 9/11 report.

What is your iraq unique reason for invation ?


Flax.

In what way.

You can ride in on the UN alias as the un where against an invation.

You didnt find WMD's

You didnt invade when he was killing kurds back in the eighties, then he was your ally in the middle east.

There isnt any reliable link to AQ as stated in the 9/11 report.

What is your iraq unique reason for invation ?


Flax.

Justification has more to do with the reasons then the reality and none of the reasons were realities...so the war was not justified.

You would think the brits were America's friend. Yet they allow people to show this crap in their schools:
http://www.brandonblog.com/Graphic-Iraq-war-Video.html

British laws against racial strife are enforced only against whites. They are letting these bastards get away with promoting murder. A phone call has confirmed the Brits refuse to do anything about it.

And now groups like Greenpeace, Moveon.org, and other Bush bashers are showing it all over the US. It's even gained popularity among street gangs.

I say we need start treating those groups like the f ing terrorist organizations they are. I say arrest every single SOB that's involved in these groups.
F ing sick sobs.
And we need to move our troops out of our british military bases into the streets of London and just plain take over. Teach the british a lesson they won't ever forget.

Whittier, shut the hell up. Unlike the US, people can say what they like over here, much to your apparent dismay.

In what way.

You can ride in on the UN alias as the un where against an invation.

You didnt find WMD's

You didnt invade when he was killing kurds back in the eighties, then he was your ally in the middle east.

There isnt any reliable link to AQ as stated in the 9/11 report.

What is your iraq unique reason for invation ?


Flax.
To remove Saddam from power once and for all and put a final end the gulf war which had been going off and on since 1991. There had to be closure, so we could lift the sanctions. Sanctions could not be lifted as long as Saddam was in power. Cause if he did, he would have quickly bought WMD's and used them not only against america, but against Europe and Saudi too. Cause they helped us in Desert Storm Hussein had a grudge against the Saudis, and the Europeans.
As for the oil for food program, he was taking the money and using it to build grand palaces and anti air sights. Instead of using it feed his people like it was supposed to be used for.
And up to the day he fell from power, he continued to torture people.

I never said the war was justified i just wonderd how any rational being could say it.

Im not saying that no good can come out of it, i hope it does and that the new iraq turns out to be a democratic utopia, but i dont see that happeing.

Flax

Whittier, shut the hell up. Unlike the US, people can say what they like over here, much to your apparent dismay.
Yes, well, people there are free to support terrorists like Al Qaeda and hide under the shield of free speech.

Yes, well, people there are free to support terrorists like Al Qaeda and hide under the shield of free speech.
How dare you attack my country, of which you know nothing. The UK, unlike the USA, has been dealing with terrorists for decades (read: the IRA, which some stupid yanks actively fund, while they go blowing up shopping centres and bandstands). People like you are the reason the rest of the world hates the US - you moralising prats think you know what's best for everyone.

I'm not anti-US, I'm anti-people like you who live in the US. Mind your own goddamned business.

God, it annoys me so much.

This has nothing to do with abortion. And you were supporting what the terrorists are doing in Iraq. You were spreading false information.
How? When?

Let me that qoute you keep throwing around into the proper context since the puny brain of yours won't.
"Were you ever in the military? No? If not then you have no place to criticize anything."

There, I have replaced the word so you can understand the statement now.
A word of advice: cut back on "puny brains" "crock of bull" and such-like flamebait. For one, refraining from pathetic insults might make folks more willing to engage in substantive conversation with you (if that's what you're looking for). More importantly, my guess is that you'd be somewhat more restrained in your speech if you were in a bar and someone could've given you a walloping for showing to much lip. -- Acting differently just because it's an internet forum and there are no consequences to loose talk is a bit undignified, I think.

As for the quote, the proposed amendment makes not a whit of difference. If you, as a male who, I trust, hasn't experienced pregnacy himself :) , believe you have a right to speak on abortion and/or criticise those who get/perform abortions, then opponents of the U.S. policies in Iraq has just as much standing criticise the war, regardless of whether they served in the military or not.

How? When?


A word of advice: cut back on "puny brains" "crock of bull" and such-like flamebait. For one, refraining from pathetic insults might make folks more willing to engage in substantive conversation with you (if that's what you're looking for). More importantly, my guess is that you'd be somewhat more restrained in your speech if you were in a bar and someone could've given you a walloping for showing to much lip. -- Acting differently just because it's an internet forum and there are no consequences to loose talk is a bit undignified, I think.

As for the quote, the proposed amendment makes not a whit of difference. If you, as a male who, I trust, hasn't experienced pregnacy himself :) , believe you have a right to speak on abortion and/or criticise those who get/perform abortions, then opponents of the U.S. policies in Iraq has just as much standing criticise the war, regardless of whether they served in the military or not.
Where is abortion coming into this? It's not even related to the topic.
What is your obssession with abortion?

A word of advice: cut back on "puny brains" "crock of bull" and such-like flamebait.
Agreed. And I am asking the mods to change the title cause I'm tired of seeing it.
opponents of the U.S. policies in Iraq has just as much standing criticise the war, regardless of whether they served in the military or not.
I agree, but not if they are using it as an excuse to condone terrorism or promote riots.

...
It seems you cannot discuss the topic of the thread and are only able to attempt to insult people on this thread.
I'm sorry, Mr Paragon of Virtue, -- after post #145 in this thread you had every reason to expect me to give you a cookie. Rrright.

How dare you attack my country, of which you know nothing. The UK, unlike the USA, has been dealing with terrorists for decades (read: the IRA, which some stupid yanks actively fund, while they go blowing up shopping centres and bandstands). People like you are the reason the rest of the world hates the US - you moralising prats think you know what's best for everyone.

I'm not anti-US, I'm anti-people like you who live in the US. Mind your own goddamned business.

God, it annoys me so much.
thats cause we do know whats best for everyone

thats cause we do know whats best for everyone

Arrogence much?

Why I don't believe that Whittier is in the US military:

"Were you ever in the military? No? If not then you have no place to criticize anything."

There. I don't believe he is part of the US military because I do not believe that this is the attitude they encourage and engender regarding civilians and their opinions. If he is in the US military then he should be ashamed of himself for voicing this statement.

thats cause we do know whats best for everyone

Which is why your chickens came home to roost on 9/11?

To remove Saddam from power once and for all

Sanctions could not be lifted as long as Saddam was in power. Cause if he did, he would have quickly bought WMD's and used them not only against america, but against Europe and Saudi too.

As for the oil for food program, he was taking the money and using it to build grand palaces and anti air sights. Instead of using it feed his people like it was supposed to be used for.

And up to the day he fell from power, he continued to torture people.

Ok
So the reasons where
1.political surgery, ie remove saddam when he is no longer our ally.
2.The "knowledge" that he would Bomb the US,EU and Saudi as soon as possible after sanctions where lifted.
3.That he where using oil money in a socialistic way.
4.Torture.

Now.
1. As I stated before its for some strange actually against international law to invade a country just because youre not happy with its current leaders.
(even if the happen to be Anti-Amarican)
2.The sanctions with the dual use clause where bad as you say, they probably killed more iraqies then the invation.
but to think that he would bomb the US is just strange.
3.Iraqi leadership is in now way unique is grabbing most of the oil money for themselfs.
4.Again the world isnt a beautifull place and torture is unfortunatly quite commonplace, eiter you should try and stomp it out compleatly that isnt happening (SOA in fort hanning). or you shouldnt try to use it as an excuse for you political agenda.


flax.

Which is why your chickens came home to roost on 9/11?

Very Malcolm X, BWO.

"opponents of the U.S. policies in Iraq has just as much standing criticise the war, regardless of whether they served in the military or not."
I agree, but not if they are using it as an excuse to condone terrorism or promote riots.
My point in bringing up the matter of abortion was solely to illustrate that everyone who is so inclined has the right to speak on moral/political issues of the day (be they Iraq or abortion), regardless of having/not having direct experience with these issues.

As for "condoning terrorism and promoting riots", I doubt that very many opponents of the war are guilty of that. -- Highlighting the cause-effect link between American invasion of Iraq and vicious Iraqi response to it certainly does not amount to condoning terrorism.

Why I don't believe that Whittier is in the US military:



There. I don't believe he is part of the US military because I do not believe that this is the attitude they encourage and engender regarding civilians and their opinions. If he is in the US military then he should be ashamed of himself for voicing this statement.
Like you said, buddy, free speech. Even people in the military have it.

Ok
So the reasons where
1.political surgery, ie remove saddam when he is no longer our ally.
2.The "knowledge" that he would Bomb the US,EU and Saudi as soon as possible after sanctions where lifted.
3.That he where using oil money in a socialistic way.
4.Torture.

Now.
1. As I stated before its for some strange actually against international law to invade a country just because youre not happy with its current leaders.
(even if the happen to be Anti-Amarican)
2.The sanctions with the dual use clause where bad as you say, they probably killed more iraqies then the invation.
but to think that he would bomb the US is just strange.
3.Iraqi leadership is in now way unique is grabbing most of the oil money for themselfs.
4.Again the world isnt a beautifull place and torture is unfortunatly quite commonplace, eiter you should try and stomp it out compleatly that isnt happening (SOA in fort hanning). or you shouldnt try to use it as an excuse for you political agenda.


flax.

just cause torture is common does not mean we just sit back and allow it to happen. You may be content to, but I'm not.

just cause torture is common does not mean we just sit back and allow it to happen. You may be content to, but I'm not.

I may be wrong here, but weren't you advocating the use of torture in one of the other threads?

My point in bringing up the matter of abortion was solely to illustrate that everyone who is so inclined has the right to speak on moral/political issues of the day (be they Iraq or abortion), regardless of having/not having direct experience with these issues.

As for "condoning terrorism and promoting riots", I doubt that very many opponents of the war are guilty of that. -- Highlighting the cause-effect link between American invasion of Iraq and vicious Iraqi response to it certainly does not amount to condoning terrorism.
We aren't being attacked by Iraqis. We're being attacked by Al Qaeda.

I may be wrong here, but weren't you advocating the use of torture in one of the other threads?
Now I know I would never advocate torture. The death penalty yes.
But not torture.
Why not? Cause its one of my top 7 greatest evils of our time.
Along with human trafficking, genocide, terrorism, abortion, adultery, religious fanaticism.

Now I know I would never advocate torture. The death penalty yes.
But not torture.


In this case I probably had you confused with someone else then.

just cause torture is common does not mean we just sit back and allow it to happen. You may be content to, but I'm not.

Why arent the bombs falling on Turkey then for example or is it okay if you're NATO ?

Or Israel that actually had laws about the physical pursuation of prisoners to gain information.

If you apply one standard to some and another one to others the cred starts falling kinda quick.

Flax

In this case I probably had you confused with someone else then.
K
What are the chances of the thread title being changed, since I can't do it myself.

Why arent the bombs falling on Turkey then for example or is it okay if you're NATO ?

Or Israel that actually had laws about the physical pursuation of prisoners to gain information.

If you apply one standard to some and another one to others the cred starts falling kinda quick.

Flax
I oppose all torture even by Israelis.
The only way to end the Palestinian Israeli conflict is to do what we did in Iraq. Send in troops and butt their heads together. Then all Israelis and palestinians guilty of torture be sent to the World Court for crimes against humanity.
I would send those soldiers from Abu Graihb there too.
Torture is evil, it don't matter who is doing it.

K
What are the chances of the thread title being changed, since I can't do it myself.

Don't ask me I only fight here.

A request to the mods might be the route to pursue.

Don't ask me I only fight here.

A request to the mods might be the route to pursue.
I already posted a request there.

The only way to end the Palestinian Israeli conflict is to do what we did in Iraq. Send in troops and butt their heads together.

And you don't think this might just possibly lead to more terrorist attacks on the United States, no?

And you don't think this might just possibly lead to more terrorist attacks on the United States, no?
No, cause we'd be kicking Israel out of Palestine. Why would they attack us for that?

No, cause we'd be kicking Israel out of Palestine. Why would they attack us for that?
Bush won't do it. But I would.

No, cause we'd be kicking Israel out of Palestine. Why would they attack us for that?

I meant from both the Israeli and the Palestinean quarters. Where were you planning to rehouse the Israelis after you have kicked them all out of Palestine? Or didn' t you think any further before you advocated what amounts to trying to put out a fire by pouring petrol on it?

No, cause we'd be kicking Israel out of Palestine. Why would they attack us for that?

I see no reason for that :P

you might get a few fanatic sionists on your throat.
But there isnt a single way a nation can act to placate EVERYONE tho

Flax

But there isnt a single way a nation can act to placate EVERYONE tho

There is a quite a difference between merely placating a nation and going and sending over troops to occupy it and overthrow its sovereign government, though isn't there?

I meant from both the Israeli and the Palestinean quarters. Where were you planning to rehouse the Israelis after you have kicked them all out of Palestine? Or didn' t you think any further before you advocated what amounts to trying to put out a fire by pouring petrol on it?
It ended the war in Bosnia when we did it.

It ended the war in Bosnia when we did it.

I'll ask again, what are you going to do with all the Israelis that no longer have a nation? Where are they going to be relocated to?

I'll ask again, what are you going to do with all the Israelis that no longer have a nation? Where are they going to be relocated to?
They'll have to negotiate. Cause you have to remember they are currently doing just that to the Palestinians.
Now, we would not be kicking the Israelis out of their homes. But if they are in Palestine, they would be subject to Palestine law.
Also you could get into the fact that Israel has for years unjustly denied the Palestinians a nation. So who are they to talk?
The new border will not be drawn around ethnic or religious lines. Doing it that around ethnicity or religion is the most sure fire way to make the situation worse.
The border would be drawn equitably. I would bann Sharon and Arafat from the talks, cause as long as those two or any member of their generation remains in power, there will never be peace in that land.
Hell, I might just send a surgical spec ops team and capture both Sharon and Arafat that the Israelis and Palestinians of todays generation will be able to finally acheive their goal of peace with each other.
Israeilis and Palestinians don't hate each other. They just hate each others leaders.

It ended the war in Bosnia when we did it.

I wouldnt quite say ended there are still troops in former yugoslavia to keep the peace, and a few months ago there where widespread fighting so no your bombs didnt bring peace it just calmed the war down a bit it didnt solve much in the long tearm.

And even if i havent been down there myself i have spoken at quite some lenght about it with a friend of mine just home from a tour of duty as a un peacekpper in the balkans.

And no there wasnt many sunshine stories to tell.

Flax

I wouldnt quite say ended there are still troops in former yugoslavia to keep the peace, and a few months ago there where widespread fighting so no your bombs didnt bring peace it just calmed the war down a bit it didnt solve much in the long tearm.

And even if i havent been down there myself i have spoken at quite some lenght about it with a friend of mine just home from a tour of duty as a un peacekpper in the balkans.

And no there wasnt many sunshine stories to tell.

Flax
Its a warzone, why would you expect sunshine stories.
This is why we join the army.
I think bosnia is much better now than it was then. And I seem to remember the Europeans demanding that we drop bombs on the Bosnian factions.

Im the first to admit i didnt think i would agree with much that you said whitter but some of your views on the israel/palestinian isue are similar to mine.

If blame is to be put anywhere it actually have to be placed on the brits.
Much of the problems strted when palestine was a protectorate.
It all looked good on paper,
balfour_declaration 1917 (http://united-states.asinah.net/american-encyclopedia/wikipedia/b/ba/balfour_declaration__1917.html)
But it didnt work out all that well.

After that it all went to hell more or less

Flax.

clicking edit didn't work. still same title.

And I seem to remember the Europeans demanding that we drop bombs on the Bosnian factions.

Some Europeans not a majority.
Europe is far from a single entity.
If you compare the agreements signed after the bombing campain and the serbian drafts in (dont mind the horrible spelling please i have NO idea how this is spelled properly) Rambuoille you realy start to wonder if the changes was worth "collateral damage".

Flax.

Im the first to admit i didnt think i would agree with much that you said whitter but some of your views on the israel/palestinian isue are similar to mine.

If blame is to be put anywhere it actually have to be placed on the brits.
Much of the problems strted when palestine was a protectorate.
It all looked good on paper,
balfour_declaration 1917 (http://united-states.asinah.net/american-encyclopedia/wikipedia/b/ba/balfour_declaration__1917.html)
But it didnt work out all that well.

After that it all went to hell more or less

Flax.
A lot of arab leaders wanted to be glorious conquerers but got themselves conquered instead. And their actions had bad consequences for their people. The Brits may have drawn the boundaries, but they didn't force the arabs to invade and try to wipe out a whole people.
They did that on their own, without even consulting their own peoples.
And now, Israel is acting just like those old arab rulers.
Some people have a hard time learning from history.

Now if I can just figure out how get that title changed cause it is turning into an eyesore. And "Evil Pro-terrorist Video" sounds a lot less confrontational. THough I was quite upset when I originally posted.

Ah, the Belfour Declaration was taken out of context.

Some Europeans not a majority.
Europe is far from a single entity.
If you compare the agreements signed after the bombing campain and the serbian drafts in (dont mind the horrible spelling please i have NO idea how this is spelled properly) Rambuoille you realy start to wonder if the changes was worth "collateral damage".

Flax.
do you have links to those?

In rl, people find me quite stubborn and opinionated.

A lot of arab leaders wanted to be glorious conquerers but got themselves conquered instead.

Well can you blame em if you say "Well we're going to carve out a new nation here, hope you dont mind"
And for once it wassnt a major colonial power but a nation they could do something about even tho they fucked up baldy with some of the worst military leadership and lack of comitment in modern history.

Israel where very lucky to come out of that one alive.

Now if I can just figure out how get that title changed cause it is turning into an eyesore. And "Evil Pro-terrorist Video" sounds a lot less confrontational. THough I was quite upset when I originally posted.

True we seem to have strayed somewhat from the topic :P

Flax

Well can you blame em if you say "Well we're going to carve out a new nation here, hope you dont mind"
And for once it wassnt a major colonial power but a nation they could do something about even tho they fucked up baldy with some of the worst military leadership and lack of comitment in modern history.

Israel where very lucky to come out of that one alive.



True we seem to have strayed somewhat from the topic :P

Flax
If the Isrealis had waited longer, there could have been more peaceful transition.
And everyone knows the only reason Israel came out alive is cause the US and Britain backed them.

The title's been changed.
No more eyesore. Thanks to the mods.
:)

its getting mighty late for me now so i have to go to bed so i get atleast some hours of sleep.

I had the rambouille drafts on my computer two swaps ago, i mean it was quite some time ago.

signing off

flax

We aren't being attacked by Iraqis. We're being attacked by Al Qaeda.
Muqtada al-Sadr - a member of al-Qaeda?
Residents of the Sunni Triangle - all members of al-Qaeda?

Here's the skinny (http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040708_2554.html?INTERNATIONALad=true)

Exactly, we havent been fighting Al-Qeada for months.
We are fighting the Iraqi people.

Tens of thousands of the same people that Bush claims are "Liberated".

Muqtada al-Sadr - a member of al-Qaeda?
Residents of the Sunni Triangle - all members of al-Qaeda?

Here's the skinny (http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040708_2554.html?INTERNATIONALad=true)
so you're saying we should just run and hide?
I hide from no one.

Exactly, we havent been fighting Al-Qeada for months.
We are fighting the Iraqi people.

Tens of thousands of the same people that Bush claims are "Liberated".
You again. :mad: