NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, today, I was talking to my friend on MSN, and she asked me what was new, and I said "Oh, I'm reading the third Harry Potter again" I really like the books after all, and she said "I don't like those books...they promote Satanism" and I was all like "What what what!?" and I was so suprised! I never knew she was radical right wing conservative christian. But she is. She even gave me her spiel about how I should convert so that we can 'hang out' in heaven. It pissed me off. Now I feel like we've jsut been friends this whole time so that she could convert me. We've had a few conversations since this morning when this all started, and she always says things like "You should really reconsider" or "Embrace Jesus! What do you have to lose?" and even "If you don't convert you'll burn with all the gays in hell" and it makes me so irritated, and she got my other friends in on it too, the ones I've always known were Christians, but never knew they were so far out right field. Now I have to be careful about what I talk about, because I might spark off some "Join us!" conversation. Infact, one of my "friends" is getting to the point where everything he says sounds liek he's saying I should kill myself because I don't have anything to live for (I do too! I have alot of things to live for, there's more than jsut god in the world). Why can't they jsut accept me for who I am? Why can't they accept that I believe socialism is a good idea (I'm not really sure how they got that information since I never really talk about it, and I'm pretty subtl when I do) and that I don't beleive religion is a good idea. Here's a good idea for them. Why don't they just accept me, and appreciate me for who I am now, because they won't be able to see me when I go to hell, and they go to heaven? I'm not changing. So jsut accept it!

But anyway, that was my beef today, I just needed to get it out.

Ditch em all. Friends with ulterior motives arent real friends.

Some people are stupid.

You, unfortunatly, are stuck with religious ones :p

As George Carlin once said: The christians are comming. And they are not nice people.

Wow, that's amusing. I'm Catholic myself, and I joke all the time about converting my Mormon friend. I tell him that I get points for every person I convert. If I get enough the Vatican buys me a new boat ;P.
But seriously, I'm a smart-ass when it comes to things like this. I'm a Catholic who answers questions about my religion if I'm asked, but believes it's a personal choice not to be manipulated by me or anyone else. It's too bad you had to meet some of the nutty ones.

I've never had to deal with this sort of problem before. Just tell them to leave you alone. Over and over again.

Ditch em all. Friends with ulterior motives arent real friends.

True. Now Eridanus, you should become a soc...oh.

Why can't they accept that I believe socialism is a good idea

Well, you've already been saved.

Heh, seriously though, your friend who seems to be telling you to kill yourself probably is suicidal himself...I mean, i'm no psychologist, but I think maybe thats how he's expressing what he feels himself...

Wow, that's amusing. I'm Catholic myself, and I joke all the time about converting my Mormon friend. I tell him that I get points for every person I convert. If I get enough the Vatican buys me a new boat ;P.
But seriously, I'm a smart-ass when it comes to things like this. I'm a Catholic who answers questions about my religion if I'm asked, but believes it's a personal choice not to be manipulated by me or anyone else. It's too bad you had to meet some of the nutty ones.

Totally agree... religion is a personal matter. More to the point, in the US it is consitutionally a personal matter. I know many christians who argue that it is their duty to witness to the non-believers, and there really is no argument that will convince them otherwise. If they are truly your friends, they will stop trying to badger you about religion when they see it makes you uncomfortable. I have also met christians around here who are actively encouraged by their church and their christian schools to interact with others, befriend them... just so they can 'save more souls'.

Like Talondar says, it's a personal decision, and if they are willing to risk your friendship on earth for the possibility of an afterlife, they have already made their choice.

Jesus freaks! tell them to go see SAVED! Then maybe they will reconsider their position. Other than that, laugh at them and tell them you don't believe in hell. That usually works well. or you can carve a pentagram somewhere near them. *Now where did I leave that knife. . . *

Thank you everyone. It helps...really it does. But I would like to mention something that Talondar might find interesting. These friends who are trying to convert me, not a single one of them thinks that catholics are christians...isn't that dumb? They say "Oh, I know they beleive in Jesus and all that. But they arn't christians. They pray to the disciples, we pray to god." I found that offensive, to be quite honest. Considering that Catholics have been around a hell of alot longer than Protestants.

My in-laws also hate Harry Potter, because it promotes Satanism.

They haven't seen the Harry Potter movies. They haven't read the Harry Potter books. But, one of their 'conservative christian' newspapers told them about it.

Just bear in mind that these 'friends' are not expressing their own opinions or their own thoughts... they are just regurgitating what they have been trained to say.

Congratulations on thinking for yourself.

hmmm, they remind me of Jack Chick and his revolting evangelist comics (http://www.chick.com/).
Perhaps it's just a phase that they'll get out of eventually; when the novelty wears off. I don't really think ditching them is a good idea :D, perhaps you should just tell them that you accept they have these views but that they should also accept you have different views.

I don't know what they have against Harry Potter. I love that series! I must have read the entire series three or four times.
That just sounds so...sad.
I don't get how they seperate themselves from Christians. Christians believe Jesus is the son of God, right? Tell me if I'm wrong. Catholics believe Jesus is the son of God, so Catholics are Christians.

Thank you everyone. It helps...really it does. But I would like to mention something that Talondar might find interesting. These friends who are trying to convert me, not a single one of them thinks that catholics are christians...isn't that dumb? They say "Oh, I know they beleive in Jesus and all that. But they arn't christians. They pray to the disciples, we pray to god." I found that offensive, to be quite honest. Considering that Catholics have been around a hell of alot longer than Protestants.

Many 'christians' also object to the fact that "cathiolics worship Mary"... note, that is a literal quote from someone at my work.

To be honest, if I were catholic, I'd be GLAD to be seperated from most of the 'christians'.

The problem some Christians have with Harry Potter is that its about using magic, which is linked to Satanism by their preachers. Its similar with Lord of the Rings and other fantasy.

Many 'christians' also object to the fact that "cathiolics worship Mary"... note, that is a literal quote from someone at my work.

Eh, that's a common and easily made misconception. I've had a few conversations with the priest about that very topic.

Eh, that's a common and easily made misconception. I've had a few conversations with the priest about that very topic.

I used to have conversations like that with the people I work with, but I have given up in despair... if he thinks catholics worship Mary, and that helps him sleep at night...

At least they have stopped trying to convert me all the time....

well... I just married a filipina catholic and I must say that catholics are indeed christians, but they do not abhor the protestants. In fact, the protestants teach that catholics arent christians. This exactly the problem I have with christianity. no other religion in the world is so segmented. remind you of anything? how about a vrius? (Matrix) The wachoski bros made many profound statements in their movies if you can find them. christianity is spreading like a plague, and in what way is it helping people?

thats my 2cent

Well if they have been your friends for a long time perhaps they have come under the influence of a flashy reveivalist with no small amount of bling. But if they were just causal aquantinces they arent being very nice. You should blow them off.


Or you could take your revenge. Heres what you do. If you get particularly pised of at them Let them witness for you. Satirise it. Become the most fanatical Fundy SOB you can be and get away with it. Until they turn away from jesus in disgust or start to kill abortion doctors and move to Africa to hold off the encroaching moslim hoards. Then sell the movie rights to fox.
Just make sure its a really crappy tv movie.

I would tell you to add me to your msn so you could have someone to chat with who wouldn't do that sort of thing to you...

But I'd just be trying to make you into a capitalist :D

The problem some Christians have with Harry Potter is that its about using magic, which is linked to Satanism by their preachers. Its similar with Lord of the Rings and other fantasy.

The problem is that they have never encountered (first-hand) the media they are attacking.

If they had, they would have realised that the first Harry Potter book is about the saving power of love - after all, it is what kills 'he who shall not be named'.

They would have realised that the second book deals with issues of equality, emancipation, and facing fear. (Ironically, in symbolic form, the day is saved by the power of resurrection - christians should love it).

They would have realised that the third text is a morality play about the assumptions we make, and the abuse of power.

To be honest, there is little magic in the Potter books/movies, and what there is supports the story rather than being the focus. The Potter books are not 'about' magic, at all. They are rites of passage, that just happen to be set within an environment of fantasy.

Perhaps we should ban the Bible, because it is about magic... all that stuff about Egyptian sorcerors and stuff, and fires that talk. It's evil, I tell you.

well... I just married a filipina catholic and I must say that catholics are indeed christians, but they do not abhor the protestants. In fact, the protestants teach that catholics arent christians. This exactly the problem I have with christianity. no other religion in the world is so segmented. remind you of anything? how about a vrius? (Matrix) The wachoski bros made many profound statements in their movies if you can find them. christianity is spreading like a plague, and in what way is it helping people?

thats my 2cent

The pathetic thing about that is the idea they espoused werent original they were cliched and were already in the intellectual sphere. Nothing somebody couldnt come up with with a week on Hallucinogens. Plus I disagree with a lot of what they asserted and I only saw the first one.

Its just the Wachowski brothers have got credibility because the put them into a hollywood action movie.

The problem some Christians have with Harry Potter is that its about using magic, which is linked to Satanism by their preachers. Its similar with Lord of the Rings and other fantasy.


Lotr uses no magic. Anyone who wants to know what Gandalf is can ask me. I am a devote Christian but don't stand on the table at school yelljng turn or burn. Tell your friend there is a verse in the bible that states "It is better to tie a milstone around your neck and throw yourself into a lake than to lead somebody away from God" Now if I was you and she was telling me all that stuff, I would want to get away from christains not join them. If some one askes me about God, I tell them. She has no right to tell you you are going to hell because (in my belief) we are all equal and we all have our faults. I think in yout case, you are being the more "godly" person.



Another thing, Calderstrake, Islam is spreading faster :)

The problem with your Right-Wing Christian freinds, is the same problem they will have when they get older.
Theyw ill believe whatever they are told.
Be it from the Church, thier parents, or the President, they will swallow the same close minded mumbo jumbo that they have fed to them.

Your able to think for yourself, and make your own decisions.
Thats good.
As for your freinds, if they feel the need to change you, then they dont consider you thier equal.
If they dont consider you equal to them, then are they really the kind of freinds you want?

I guess you can call me a liberal christain if that makes sence. lol...I'm watching Conan and he is making fun of Bush...pretty funny:) Bush is such a horrible president!

lol...it is something like that. LOL, sorry Conan is making fun of Bush and it is SOOO funny! See Gandalf was sent to middle-earth to...sorry this is soo funny, I am crying! They are making fun of Bushes grammer!...to aid men and elves against Sauron. There we 5 of them in all...lol, they are making fun of bush and a pie graph...all and the5 were scattered. Two were Saraumon and Gandalf. There were actually mutliple gods in lotr called Valar.

LOTR's message is that no matter how small or insignificant you are, you can always change the course of the future.

And that there is always hope.....

although I have been an atheist for 20 years, I still wouldn't bother reading harry potter because I got enough magic from CS Lewis.
I think I did watch the first movie, but fell asleep in the first 20 minutes.

Lol...Lotr didn't have ANY ties to Christianity although Tolkein was a Christian. It was more than likely that it was based on WW II.

although I have been an atheist for 20 years, I still wouldn't bother reading harry potter because I got enough magic from CS Lewis.
I think I did watch the first movie, but fell asleep in the first 20 minutes.


But Narnia is totally Christain...I mean, who do you think Aslan is? How he died for the people? How he conquered death? How he destroyed the White Witch? How he said "you know me by another name in your world"-talking to the kids in Narnia. I thought the Chronicles were ok...but there was to much bible-based. If I wanted to read the bible, I would of read the bible. That is why I liked Lotr better.

Lol...Lotr didn't have ANY ties to Christianity although Tolkein was a Christian. It was more than likely that it was based on WW II.

Actually, Tolkien said himself in his letters that it was not. It had some ties to Catholicism, mainly that the elves revere a mother figure [varda] who could be linked with Mary.

And that the silmarillion has a lot of instances where people repent.....

But Narnia is totally Christain...I mean, who do you think Aslan is? How he died for the people? How he conquered death? How he destroyed the White Witch? How he said "you know me by another name in your world"-talking to the kids in Narnia. I thought the Chronicles were ok...but there was to much bible-based. If I wanted to read the bible, I would of read the bible. That is why I liked Lotr better.

CS Lewis was one of Tolkiens best friends, but LOTR was better....

Lol...Lotr didn't have ANY ties to Christianity although Tolkein was a Christian. It was more than likely that it was based on WW II.

Hmmm, way off thread.... and also probably wrong.

Tolkein was a christian, so it is likely that there is, at least, a small amount of his christian thought in his work. Artists create art using the symbols with which they are familiar - and Tolkein was certainly familiar with the symbol of angels.

Certain areas of the books were fairly obviously based on war experiences - like the pools of the dead in the marshes.

I'm guessing that you can't prove that there are no links between LotR and christianity - so, it was an unsupportable argument, at best.

Actually, Tolkien said himself in his letters that it was not. It had some ties to Catholicism, mainly that the elves revere a mother figure [varda] who could be linked with Mary.

And that the silmarillion has a lot of instances where people repent.....


Yeah but the Silmallarion was not even write by Tolkein. It was a bunch of his notes put together in a book his son made.

Hmmm, way off thread.... and also probably wrong.

Tolkein was a christian, so it is likely that there is, at least, a small amount of his christian thought in his work. Artists create art using the symbols with which they are familiar - and Tolkein was certainly familiar with the symbol of angels.

Certain areas of the books were fairly obviously based on war experiences - like the pools of the dead in the marshes.

I'm guessing that you can't prove that there are no links between LotR and christianity - so, it was an unsupportable argument, at best.


But even Tolkein admitted that it had no christian ties. There were also multiple gods which is defying the First Commandment of God.

How can Harry Pot-head be Satanic? He's too goofy. And if the holy-rollers want to get on their 'magic is evil' bandwagon, let them look at what their calling evil. Supposedly Lucifer, the archangel that would become in modern myth the being called Satan, was created by the Creator. And his power, given to his worshippers, is called magic. Doesn't that make the Creator the grandfather of magic? If you want to get philisophical about it, the Creator has the same power but is being a selfish brat hoarding it and tells everyone (through intermediaries, of course) that it's wrong/evil to use magic. The Creator is just a mythological Bill Gates: my toys, and you can't play with them. I'm an atheist, so of course I refer to all religions as myth. Sue me. :P



Greywollffe has spoken...


King of Spades (http://198.70.62.5/home.asp)
It's a Warlock's Life (http://tswarlock.blogspot.com/)
Warlock's Sanctuary (http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/tomwarlock/)

Yeah but the Silmallarion was not even write by Tolkein. It was a bunch of his notes put together in a book his son made.

Hmmm, wrong again. 2 for 2, how do you do that? The Lost Tales were put together from his notes, not The Silmarillion.

Ditch em all. Friends with ulterior motives arent real friends.

Here here!

And harry potter only promotes Satanism in that it teaches poeple to THINK for themselves.

Jim

Harry Potter is good literature. An awesome tale of good and evil...some christian would say evil verse a greater evil but I disagree. I would read Harry Potter if there was some war in it. I like a good war book that can get you on the edge and something that you don't want to read for fear of what might happen to the "good" armies, but you want to find out the end.

But even Tolkein admitted that it had no christian ties. There were also multiple gods which is defying the First Commandment of God.

Actually, putting other gods 'in a story' is not against the first commandment, otherwise there would be no Bible... after all, the Bible often discusses the fact that other religions had 'imaginary' gods. Writing about gods isn't a breach of the commandment... worshipping them would be.

Harry Potter is good literature. An awesome tale of good and evil...some christian would say evil verse a greater evil but I disagree. I would read Harry Potter if there was some war in it. I like a good war book that can get you on the edge and something that you don't want to read for fear of what might happen to the "good" armies, but you want to find out the end.

Read "Starship Troopers" by Heinlan someday. Don't watch the movie, read the book.

Jim

Hmmm, wrong again. 2 for 2, how do you do that? The Lost Tales were put together from his notes, not The Silmarillion.


I'm sorry my friend but is The "Lost Tales" as in the lost tales that were lost in middle-earth history. The "Lost Tales" were sooo big that they had to make 2 books of it. Who has 2 books worth of notes around? Not to many people...

Perhaps you are the bad friend....
Obviously their faith is important to them and they shared what they believed with you. You obviously can't hack the fact that they believe their opinion to be correct and worth telling you about.
Its all about being tolerant. Tolerate the Christians, even if you don't agree with everything they say. Simple. I'm sure they'd be open to hearing your view of the world.

Actually, putting other gods 'in a story' is not against the first commandment, otherwise there would be no Bible... after all, the Bible often discusses the fact that other religions had 'imaginary' gods. Writing about gods isn't a breach of the commandment... worshipping them would be.


The Lord says " You shalt have no other gods before me" There were people in middle-earth weren't there? I Tolkein would put christian morals in a tale of many gods...and by the way, there is only one God in Lotr. The Valar are just like sons and daughters...

Harry Potter? Satanic? That's ridiculous, really ridiculous. Your friends really, really need to drop the religious act and live a little. And the suicide guy? Tell someone about him before he starts on others.

It's J.K Rowling's choice what she writes and it should be everyone's choice what they choose to read. I myself have absolutely no time for religion, to inexactly quote the Matrix "a passing conjecture of a futile mind trying to justify a pointless existence" - that's religion.

P.S Has anyone here read His Dark Materials? That makes a mockery of religion and is perhaps more 'satanic' than HP will ever be. Tell your bible-bashing friends to read it and laugh in their faces as they see the idiocy they are a part of.

I know plenty of Christian people and they don't try to convert me.

Good Christians...

Perhaps you are the bad friend....
Obviously their faith is important to them and they shared what they believed with you. You obviously can't hack the fact that they believe their opinion to be correct and worth telling you about.
Its all about being tolerant. Tolerate the Christians, even if you don't agree with everything they say. Simple. I'm sure they'd be open to hearing your view of the world.

Sure they would. I've been in that situation more times than I'd care to count. I've been preached to, called names, etc. just because I didn't believe what they did. And when I did 'tolerate' them long enough to hear their point of view, I got something similar to the reaction you might get from a bank manager you're trying to get a loan from with no collateral. And when it wasn't a laugh, it was a shocked and offended NO!!! I've tried to deal with holy-rollers before. They like you, to a degree, until the question of faith enters the 'relationship'. Then, if it is too far from their own beliefs, whatever your standing was with them up to that point, it becomes one of outcast. Hey, I've not changed. I'm still the same person. Their rigid beliefs have changed their view of me, most often taking on the 'I'm not going to associate with you' routine.


Greywollffe has spoken...


King of Spades (http://198.70.62.5/home.asp)
It's a Warlock's Life (http://tswarlock.blogspot.com/)
Warlock's Sanctuary (http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/tomwarlock/)

Sure they would. I've been in that situation more times than I'd care to count. I've been preached to, called names, etc. just because I didn't believe what they did. And when I did 'tolerate' them long enough to hear their point of view, I got something similar to the reaction you might get from a bank manager you're trying to get a loan from with no collateral. And when it wasn't a laugh, it was a shocked and offended NO!!! I've tried to deal with holy-rollers before. They like you, to a degree, until the question of faith enters the 'relationship'. Then, if it is too far from their own beliefs, whatever your standing was with them up to that point, it becomes one of outcast. Hey, I've not changed. I'm still the same person. Their rigid beliefs have changed their view of me, most often taking on the 'I'm not going to associate with you' routine.


Greywollffe has spoken...


King of Spades (http://198.70.62.5/home.asp)
It's a Warlock's Life (http://tswarlock.blogspot.com/)
Warlock's Sanctuary (http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/tomwarlock/)



Well all I can say to you is that those people have given you a bad picture of a "Christian". I would suggest you find some christians who like you because of who you are, not who they want you to be. That is why I don't like calling myself a Christian.

I have lots of Christian friends and have found them to be caring, genuinly nice people.

Although I hate preachers, especially the ones that preach to me through the front door!

I know plenty of Christian people and they don't try to convert me.

True, I've not seen a mass conversion effort on the part of the Christian mob. However, that only applies to those among us who already have decided their faith. If you're Muslim, Buddhist, Taoist, whatever, Christians will generally leave you alone. However, if you happen to be in my position as (what they refer to) a heathen or the Islamic infidel (which is much better defined than the Christian 'heathen'), you may find yourself on the receiving end of a barrage of converting attempts. I have had family and friends all try to convert me, and when their efforts are met with a quiet 'no thanks', I become the one person they ignore as much as they might a rapist. I don't like the notion of someone thinking I'm on the same level as such a vile individual, but as long as I think I'm ok, everything's kool.


Greywollffe has spoken...


King of Spades (http://198.70.62.5/home.asp)
It's a Warlock's Life (http://tswarlock.blogspot.com/)
Warlock's Sanctuary (http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/tomwarlock/)

I have lots of Christian friends and have found them to be caring, genuinly nice people.

Although I hate preachers, especially the ones that preach to me through the front door!


And the ones who are pornatics that have mistresses...but some youth pastors are pretty cool.

What bothers me the most about these people, is that I know more about their religion than they do. I can't quite cite my sources like they can (John 4:20), but here are a few examples.

I was having a conversation today about gay marriage with my religious "friend" (she was trying to convert me, so I thought I would have some fun). She said "homosexuality is wrong. It says so in the bible" I just kinda said "...no it doesn't" then she was like "Yes huh!" I pointed out to her that in the Bible, it talks about a little thing called 'sodomy'. Now, it's very well accepted that sodomy means gay sex, but in reality, the Bible (where the word first appeared) never actually says anything about what sodomy is. And as one of my moms friends (who jsut so happens to be a professor of theology) says, it is much more likelly that the word sodomy has something to do with 'just downright, not nice, meanies' as he says. But the christian church has affiliated the word with homosexuality, becuase there was a very small minority of people in the city of Sodom who got together, and had gay orgies. But basically, the people of Sodom were jsut assholes, and so that's probably what they were refering to in the bible. I told that to my friend...her eyes glazed over...and she just said "Well...I just know it's morally wrong" Well, go figure. I guess she's one to dictate what's moraly acceptable. I mean, the Bible (which she lives her life by) doesn't even really say anythign about gay people...so you kinda ahve to think for yourself on that...but some people are incapable of that.

Somehow (can't quite remember how) the conversation came around to Jesus being crucified. She said "Well, the romans asked Jesus if he was the King of the Jews, and he said 'yes' so they nailed him to the cross, and died for our sins." well, I happened to know that that isn't even close to what Jesus said...let's look at the Bible. It goes more like, the Romans asked him if he was the king of the jews, he said 'no, I am a son of god' BIG DIFFERENCE! She knew she was wrong, but she had to challenge me. "He was THE son of god, not A son of god" I'm pretty sure that I'm right here, but I need to do some more research. Jesus wasn't the kind of guy to say something like that.

Basically, the Bible is a pretty interesting book, with some good points. Should everyone read it? Yeah, even if you don't believe it, you should be informed about what some people think, and it's nice to know what you're talking about in a debate. She the book be taken as the book written by god? No, really, it was written by people. That book is a total rip off of Zoroastria, Judaism, and other such religions. The stories are the same, but with different characters. Basically what I'm saying is, you can believe the book if you want, but don't take it too seriouslly...people could get hurt.

But really, I managed to convince the semi-suicidal one that he should jsut accept me for me. And he reluctantlly accepted. So I'm making progress. I need some sleep...g'night!

I'm sorry my friend but is The "Lost Tales" as in the lost tales that were lost in middle-earth history. The "Lost Tales" were sooo big that they had to make 2 books of it. Who has 2 books worth of notes around? Not to many people...

Okay - now I'm confused. Are you saying that you think The Silmarillion IS the Lost Tales?

By the way... Tolkein had huge stacks of notebooks 'around' - and I think you'll probably find most authors do.

Okay - now I'm confused. Are you saying that you think The Silmarillion IS the Lost Tales?

By the way... Tolkein had huge stacks of notebooks 'around' - and I think you'll probably find most authors do.


Hold up...

Man, of all the idiotic reasons to dislike Harry Potter...

Me? I dislike the over marketing, and refuse to pay for anything to do with it... but telling someone else not to read a book just because *I* have some moral beef with it? Ehhh... no.

Anyone who tries to force their religion on anyone (seriously, anyway), is an idiot. I'm sorry, but it's true. If I don't believe in God, no amount of hassling is going to *make* me believe in God... just like no amount of hassling will make me stop eating meat, or abondon my belief that education costs should come before random wars with other countries.

Hmm... this is probably a bad choice for a first post... but I just had a run in with some crazy religious people today, so it's kind of a sore point here. (Yeah, sure, the Eagle Nebula couldn't exist without God, because we all know that gas particles aren't *really* attracted to each other... physicists just say that to... um... remind me what religious people claim about that? Brainwashing, was it? Hmmm).

I think you seriously need to consider getting new friends. My friends are all christian, and I am athiest, and they don't care, they just think that's a part of who I am, as I do with their religion. If you can't even have a proper conversation with these people without fear of them stuffing their beliefs down your throat, it's time to ditch them, or you could always just tell them how you feel, and see how it goes from there

The problem some Christians have with Harry Potter is that its about using magic, which is linked to Satanism by their preachers. Its similar with Lord of the Rings and other fantasy.

That is really stupid. Because Harry Potter is a CHILDREN'S book. And I heard that the Lord of the Rings has a "deeper, christian meaning" (Aragorn represents Jesus or something like that) so why would they be against those books?

Try quoting from Evil Bible (www.evilbible.com). That should scare them. Either that, or when you're on the phone/IM with them, tell them that you get back as soon as you finish sacraficing your goats. Or, in the pauses in conversation, start whispering "Satan, what is your will now?"

But Narnia is totally Christain...I mean, who do you think Aslan is? How he died for the people? How he conquered death? How he destroyed the White Witch? How he said "you know me by another name in your world"-talking to the kids in Narnia. I thought the Chronicles were ok...but there was to much bible-based. If I wanted to read the bible, I would of read the bible. That is why I liked Lotr better.

He was known as SATAN!

Did you know that JFK, C.S. Lewis, and Aldous Huxley all died on the same day? Now that is freaky;

I will take the Jesus freaks over the Mohammad freaks ANYDAY of the week.

first of all, why would anybody care in the first place if harry potter, the chronicles of narnia, or the lord of the rings relates to religion. its called freedom of speech, something everybody seems to have forgotten.

secondly, harry potter was written by a bag-lady. yes, jk rowling was a bag lady when she wrote harry potter. i personally dont like the harry potter series, but i dont think that she meant to put "satanist ties" in them, and i dont think shes trying to convert anybody. i dont know people...just a hunch.

thirdly, both of the other books you idiots are accusing of being tied to christianity or whatever, were written in a time when everybody was very religious. i dont really see the ties, but if they were there then i would understand because IT WAS A VERY RELIGIOUS TIME!!! if you can find those ties and do not want that in your literature, then read present day stuff where you cant even put the word "god" in a book without having a lawsuit. jeez...what is the world coming to? is there no freedom of speech anymore?

so sue me, im a catholic, and i like my religion :-P

god god god god god god god god god god god god god god god god god god

jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus

blessed virgin blessed virgin blessed virgin blessed virgin blessed virgin

loosen up a little, most people have something called faith, respect that.

Actually, Tolkien said himself in his letters that it was not. It had some ties to Catholicism, mainly that the elves revere a mother figure [varda] who could be linked with Mary.

And that the silmarillion has a lot of instances where people repent.....

Afaik he wrote LOTR and all the other books to create something he thought England lacked, a mythology. And it's mostly based on old european tale forged together. Beowulf is one of those.

I will take the Jesus freaks over the Mohammad freaks ANYDAY of the week.

Equating the views of Al Qaeda with mainstream Islam (even Islamic orthodoxy) is like equating the view of the KKK, Jerry Falwell, and others with mainstream Christianity. I would respectfully suggest that your opinion is misinformed.

Rev (I append this title with disgust) Fred Phelps is just as dangerous to a tolerant society as the ideology of the Taliban.

What bothers me the most about these people, is that I know more about their religion than they do. I can't quite cite my sources like they can (John 4:20), but here are a few examples.

I was having a conversation today about gay marriage with my religious "friend" (she was trying to convert me, so I thought I would have some fun). She said "homosexuality is wrong. It says so in the bible" I just kinda said "...no it doesn't" then she was like "Yes huh!" I pointed out to her that in the Bible, it talks about a little thing called 'sodomy'. Now, it's very well accepted that sodomy means gay sex, but in reality, the Bible (where the word first appeared) never actually says anything about what sodomy is. And as one of my moms friends (who jsut so happens to be a professor of theology) says, it is much more likelly that the word sodomy has something to do with 'just downright, not nice, meanies' as he says. But the christian church has affiliated the word with homosexuality, becuase there was a very small minority of people in the city of Sodom who got together, and had gay orgies. But basically, the people of Sodom were jsut assholes, and so that's probably what they were refering to in the bible. I told that to my friend...her eyes glazed over...and she just said "Well...I just know it's morally wrong" Well, go figure. I guess she's one to dictate what's moraly acceptable. I mean, the Bible (which she lives her life by) doesn't even really say anythign about gay people...so you kinda ahve to think for yourself on that...but some people are incapable of that.


Hate to do this to you...

Paul to the Corinthians1
6:9 - 6:10
KJV
Paul's First lettter to the Corinthians

6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


That's right the new testament criticises homosexuals, says they ain't getting in to heaven...

Well part persuaded me that it was a rubbishy old book anyway.

Similar things said in Romans, but I can't find it at the moment...

I was raised a Catholic, but I don't really accept their teachings to the letter. Let me clarify.

1. Did God Create Homosexuals, or do they Choose to be?
This is an old argument. In this corner, you have the Scientists, waving sheets of paper that say Homosexuals are born that way.
And in THIS corner, you have the Bible-Thumpers, ranting and raving that Homosexuals Choose to be that way to defy God, and must all burn in Hell.
Each thinks THEIR way is the ONLY way.
Neither have even CONSIDERED it could go either way. A man might be born Gay, or just outta the blue, he could say "Johnny... we've been friends for nearly 10 years now. Blow me."

Now, I know what you fanatics are thinking. "This Man doth SIDE with the HEATHENS! HE must BURN in HELL!" You know what? If it turns out I'm wrong, and I DO go to Hell for accepting a difference in Human nature, at least I'll be burning with someone I can be friends with.

I personally think God is a little more merciful than we think.

I think it's ridiculous that God would create people simply to Damn them. It just doesn't make any sense. When did the Bible Say "The STRAIGHT Children of God shall be Saved"? Never, that's when.

2. I personally think that God is up there, kicking himself for making Catholics such Shallow, Close-minded bastards. You know what I mean. The Jehovah's Witnesses at your door? The foamy-mouthed Bible-Thumpers who insist you're going to burn unless you convert?

They've never thought: Maybe those people's religions said they were ALREADY saved?! It's so LUDICROUS it just might be true!!! TO THINK! Not having to follow the Rule of a God you don't believe in and have NEVER HEARD OF!!!

That said, Catholicism is simply trying to get everyone to convert by acting snooty and moralistic to anyone who doesn't comply to their dull, homogenous religion. And their singing sucks, too.

I will leave you to think of that... and I will try to think of the word for this way of thinking... It eludes me at the moment. Anyone who says "Heathen" or "Heretic" will have a "Kick Me" sign slapped on their back when they're not looking.

Hate to do this to you...

Paul to the Corinthians1
6:9 - 6:10
KJV
Paul's First lettter to the Corinthians

6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


That's right the new testament criticises homosexuals, says they ain't getting in to heaven...

Well part persuaded me that it was a rubbishy old book anyway.

Similar things said in Romans, but I can't find it at the moment...

I think Eridanus was refering to the OT, rather then the letters sent out by the disciples. Which is another of my pet-hates, when fundies act as if the disciples were replicas of Jesus.

Hate to do this to you...

Paul to the Corinthians1
6:9 - 6:10
KJV
Paul's First lettter to the Corinthians

6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


That's right the new testament criticises homosexuals, says they ain't getting in to heaven...

Well part persuaded me that it was a rubbishy old book anyway.

Similar things said in Romans, but I can't find it at the moment...

Notice that it says that drunkards and idolaters shan't inherit the kingdom of God either. Point that out to some Irish Catholics- the drunk part. And really- isn't the doctrine of Christianity that you're saved by believing that Jeus died for your sins, rather than being saved by what you do yourself? So then in theory, a homosexual/drunkard/idolater/whatever can still make it to heaven if they believe that Jesus died for them. Right? So then there's really no reason for most Christains to be so militant. They don't have to like what others do, but really..

I think Christians ought to emphasize the whole "love your neighbor as yourself" thing a bit more.

Notice that it says that drunkards and idolaters shan't inherit the kingdom of God either. Point that out to some Irish Catholics- the drunk part. And really- isn't the doctrine of Christianity that you're saved by believing that Jeus died for your sins, rather than being saved by what you do yourself? So then in theory, a homosexual/drunkard/idolater/whatever can still make it to heaven if they believe that Jesus died for them. Right? So then there's really no reason for most Christains to be so militant. They don't have to like what others do, but really..

I think Christians ought to emphasize the whole "love your neighbor as yourself" thing a bit more.

come again...i dont think that made any sense

Drunkards also don't go to heaven. But one of the strongest Catholic nations on earth, Ireland, has a well known fondness for the drink.

On a different note. This may be an urban myth, but I have seen it referenced in many reputable papers (Guardian, Telegraph +more). That when Tolkien was reading out one of his extracts from a book he was writing (LotR) at a pub. Lewis exclaimed "Oh God, not another fucking elf."

LOVE to do this to you. First of all, let's examine the source.

Paul to the Corinthians1
6:9 - 6:10
KJV
Paul's First lettter to the Corinthians

Paul was a guy. A guy who wrote a letter to some other guys. So because this Paul says that people who have sex, admire things, have more sex, "speak with a lisp", and are known to throw back a couple of drinks are going to hell.... it must be true! No, I'm sorry, it's not true.

I can write a letter that proclaims all kinds of silly things, but that doesn't make them true.

And another thing. Where does it say anything about being a homosexual? Are you assuming that the "effeminate" means homosexual? Do you really think that there were all these queeny gay men running around hollering and acting like women that caused Paul to say, nope, no "effeminate" (read: queer) men are getting in heaven! Come on, brother... you can't be serious.

Let's look at the definition of effeminate.

effeminate

\Ef*fem"i*nate\, v. i. To grow womanish or weak.

In a slothful peace both courage will effeminate and manners corrupt. --Pope.

2: characterized by excessive softness or self-indulgence; "an effeminate civilization" [syn: weak]

What luck! I've got a quote from "a" pope. So one could say that Paul was referring to weakness, not homosexuality.

The problem with people quoting from the bible to argue against homosexuality is that they're taking out the parts that could be condemning but are interpreting them based on today's standards. This was written a LONG time ago, folks! I want to see the argument come up that wearing baggy pants will send you to hell... "and wearing those loose threads would bring upon the wearer most tyrannous evil".

It's a book of stories, stop using it to justify your hate.

And further, if God created us all in his image, he created gay people too. What does that say about your God?

You've been served.

The Rogue Nation of Tejad

Hate to do this to you...

Paul to the Corinthians1
6:9 - 6:10
KJV
Paul's First lettter to the Corinthians

6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

I think Eridanus was refering to the OT, rather then the letters sent out by the disciples. Which is another of my pet-hates, when fundies act as if the disciples were replicas of Jesus.


Ooooh you're let me play with the old testiment, does that mean I get Leviticus?

will get back with the fun quotes from there but not til tomorrow

Just to make things very clear I'm not christian, don't believe in following what the bible says, just pointing out that the bible does say that in the new testiment, I'll if I find the time search through for some other more explicit translations.

Love you all really, hate the bible, not the people who follow it.

I am a very far right wing but I dont at all feel book or movies are satanistic and I think anyone who thinks that is stupid. But its not a thing with all right wing christians.

Hate to do this to you...

Paul to the Corinthians1
6:9 - 6:10
KJV
Paul's First lettter to the Corinthians

6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


That's right the new testament criticises homosexuals, says they ain't getting in to heaven...

Well part persuaded me that it was a rubbishy old book anyway.

Similar things said in Romans, but I can't find it at the moment...

It just says that people who have sex, and people who act girly don't get to own the earth...that means that none of us own it. I'm sure that everyone can identify with at least one of those things. In which case, everything is evil, and none of us are going to heaven. boohoo. The very idea of saying that gays go against god is in essence going against god. Maybe at one point god didn't like gays, but he's changed his mind...he's alowed to do that...he is GOD after all. My friends think this is ridiculous. I think it makes good sense. The only reason that god wouldn't change his mind, is if he were a machine. I'm alowed to change my mind, it's my choice. According to them, god made us, and gave us a choice, in jsut about everything. So why couldn't god enjoy those same rights? But then when I look back on it, why do I even bother? They're not gonna change their mind, no matter what their precious BOOK says. THey've been brain washed by thei preachers, and youth group leader...and it's understandable, because most youth group leaders are really cool. That's how they get you. There's jsut so much lying in christianity, and manipulation, I can't follow something liek that. I mean, if it works for you, that's great, jsut don't try to convert me...please. Because then, the friendship loses all its meaning...it's all about god.

P.S. I got 'His Dark Materials' from the library today...I'm amazed that the christian church didn't attack the author for writing this...wow.

Just wanted to say that you're not the only one; I have stupid friends too!!!!

In fact I have friends who at times I wish were hit by lightening, or stalked by a bunch of Jehovah wittnesses, or that they would just fall down and enter into a coma that would last at least a decade or two.

P.S. I got 'His Dark Materials' from the library today...I'm amazed that the christian church didn't attack the author for writing this...wow.

I just wanted to say how that is a seriously cool trilogy :)

If you like that one, and it's hard to imagine you won't, then you might also want to pick up the Sally Lockhart trilogy by Philip Pullman. Not as good as HDM, but still a good read.

Another trilogy worth checking out if you like HDS is The Darkangel Trilogy by Meredith Ann Pierce.

And hey, if you want to hear some bitching about the themes of HDM then you should read the reviews at amazon.com. Amazing to see some people's talent for whining. lol

P.S. I got 'His Dark Materials' from the library today...I'm amazed that the christian church didn't attack the author for writing this...wow.
I'm sure that this doesn't surprise you but, many individual churchs (mainly Catholic iirc) did. But generally the ban was ignored, even by the parishoners.

I'm sure that this doesn't surprise you but, many individual churchs (mainly Catholic iirc) did. But generally the ban was ignored, even by the parishoners.

Yeah, doesn't suprise me. I guess they liek to target childrens books because it's easier to control them when they're children.

1248B, I'm gonna check out those other books. THey sound totally awesome!

Yeah, doesn't suprise me. I guess they liek to target childrens books because it's easier to control them when they're children.

1248B, I'm gonna check out those other books. THey sound totally awesome!

There's that whole bit in the bible about training a child in the way you want them to go, and they will follow that path...

Although modern christians argue that Psychology is some kind of imaginary tool of the devil and evil 'scientists' - they weren't afraid to use psychological conditioning on their children back in Israel, and they still do the same thing now.

Get them while they're kids, and they'll believe anything - and they'll be too young to know that you're filling their heads with bull.

I think religious indoctrination of children should be considered a form of abuse.

There's that whole bit in the bible about training a child in the way you want them to go, and they will follow that path...

Although modern christians argue that Psychology is some kind of imaginary tool of the devil and evil 'scientists' - they weren't afraid to use psychological conditioning on their children back in Israel, and they still do the same thing now.

Get them while they're kids, and they'll believe anything - and they'll be too young to know that you're filling their heads with bull.

I think religious indoctrination of children should be considered a form of abuse.

Yes, but unfortunatelly, in this country, you can teach your kids whatever you like, no matter how stupid it may be.

so Islam is spreading faster than christianity huh? well I guess it has some catching up to do then.

Incidentally, how many people already knew that the protestant and catholic bibles differ by about 10 books or so? hmmm... It is amazing how a few hundred meters and a couple decades make something heresy...

Some people are stupid.
You, unfortunatly, are stuck with religious ones :p


Not all religious people are bigotted, I'm Greek Orthodox and attend Church every Sunday when I can, but not only do I despise the radical 'Christian' right in America, I think equality concerning sexuality in the church is something that needs to be embraced. Unfortunately the ones with the loudest voices are the far right, and they give us all a bad name.

Oh, I know. I was just saying, that of all the stupid people to be stuck with, it's the religious ones. I mean, at least some stupid people can be entertaining. Stupid religious people just tend to get annoying.

Hehe, true too many have a distorted view of what Jesus said when he preached compassion, tolerance and forgiveness - they equated it to .

On a side note:

http://www.bushflash.com/ihr.html

"Their waving flags and guns, and quoting from the bible"

Hilarious flash vid.

Well, today, I was talking to my friend on MSN, and she asked me what was new, and I said "Oh, I'm reading the third Harry Potter again" I really like the books after all, and she said "I don't like those books...they promote Satanism" and I was all like "What what what!?" and I was so suprised! I never knew she was radical right wing conservative christian. But she is. She even gave me her spiel about how I should convert so that we can 'hang out' in heaven. It pissed me off. Now I feel like we've jsut been friends this whole time so that she could convert me. We've had a few conversations since this morning when this all started, and she always says things like "You should really reconsider" or "Embrace Jesus! What do you have to lose?" and even "If you don't convert you'll burn with all the gays in hell" and it makes me so irritated, and she got my other friends in on it too, the ones I've always known were Christians, but never knew they were so far out right field. Now I have to be careful about what I talk about, because I might spark off some "Join us!" conversation. Infact, one of my "friends" is getting to the point where everything he says sounds liek he's saying I should kill myself because I don't have anything to live for (I do too! I have alot of things to live for, there's more than jsut god in the world). Why can't they jsut accept me for who I am? Why can't they accept that I believe socialism is a good idea (I'm not really sure how they got that information since I never really talk about it, and I'm pretty subtl when I do) and that I don't beleive religion is a good idea. Here's a good idea for them. Why don't they just accept me, and appreciate me for who I am now, because they won't be able to see me when I go to hell, and they go to heaven? I'm not changing. So jsut accept it!

But anyway, that was my beef today, I just needed to get it out.

Hmm... one wants to save you, and one wants to destroy you. You should get them together with eachother. ;)