NationStates Jolt Archive

This is actually something that happened a long long time ago, but for some reason most of it still lies etched in my brain.

Why is it that some people are offended by certain words? This question has plagued me for quite some time. I debated somebody once on this very subject. Well it was really more of an argument. I uttered the ever dreaded “F” word and somebody took great offence at me doing so. I asked why they were so deeply offended. Their response was far from enlightening. “Because you said the F word.” So then I asked what makes the word offensive. The following response was just as bad. “Because it just is.” So here is a complete transcript of the entire conversation, that in which I can recall anyways id did happen some time ago.

Not me: Watch your mouth.
Me: Why, what I say?
Not me: You said the F word
Me: OK??? And that’s offensive how?
Not me: Because it just is.
Me: Nothing "just is." There has to be a reason for it. Now what is it?
Not me: Because you can’t just go out in public and say stuff like that.
Me: Why not?
Not me: Because you can be arrested for lewd conduct.
Me: Why, what’s so wrong with what I’m saying?
Not me: Because people find it offensive.
Me: But why? What is so wrong with that word that people find it offensive?
Not me: Look my mother used to get drunk and use that word all the time.
Me: So it seems as though you only should only have a problem with the way in which that word can be used. So what’s wrong with the word when I’m not using it in an offensive manner?
Not me: Look, people just aren‘t going to want you talking like that around their children.
Me: Why not?
Not me: Because it’s offensive

OK I lied, it’s not a complete transcript, but you can see the direction in which this is going. Anyways I kept asking why and she just kept using the same damn ad hoc argument. It got to the point where she wanted to change the subject. But I wanted a resolution and kept pushing for a suitable answer. But then she pulled out the most powerful weapon in any woman’s arsenal. She started crying and then she ran away. Leaving of course the entire argument unsolved and possible for another day. Another day which eventually did come. A day in which everything was repeated relatively verbatim. Even the crying. Situation still unresolved.

Most of it has to do with the Victorian Age, I've heard, though I'm not knowledgable enough of that period of history to make an accurate guess.

Maybe it could depend on how you used it, Crabcake Baba Ganoush.

Alas, for the poor souls that wrap their offspring up in cotton wool....

This is mearly assumption on my part. I honestly have no idea why some words are offensive. But could it have any connection to curses? These words are occasionally refered to as 'curse' words.

I have to say that I have had a very similar conversation. Although, instead of "Its offensive" I had "Well there is no need to" repeated at me.

I heard, the Granddaddy of All Swears, got it's start under a British monarch who's name escapes me. The story, as it was related to me, is that it was used to signify lawful houses of prostitution versus, well, unlawful prostitution houses. Evidently, tax-paying bordellos were allowed to display a crest over their doors reading "Fornication Under Consent of the King". Acronyms being what they are, that's how a certain four letter word entered into the cursing repertoire.

Weird.

I heard, the Granddaddy of All Swears, got it's start under a British monarch who's name escapes me. The story, as it was related to me, is that it was used to signify lawful houses of prostitution versus, well, unlawful prostitution houses. Evidently, tax-paying bordellos were allowed to display a crest over their doors reading "Fornication Under Consent of the King". Acronyms being what they are, that's how a certain four letter word entered into the cursing repertoire.

Hmmmm.

http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/fuck.htm

I heard, the Granddaddy of All Swears, got it's start under a British monarch who's name escapes me. The story, as it was related to me, is that it was used to signify lawful houses of prostitution versus, well, unlawful prostitution houses. Evidently, tax-paying bordellos were allowed to display a crest over their doors reading "Fornication Under Consent of the King". Acronyms being what they are, that's how a certain four letter word entered into the cursing repertoire.

As I responded to Stephistan in a thread where she put forward a similar acronimic story - you are laughably incorrect.

This is mearly assumption on my part. I honestly have no idea why some words are offensive. But could it have any connection to curses? These words are occasionally refered to as 'curse' words.

I have to say that I have had a very similar conversation. Although, instead of "Its offensive" I had "Well there is no need to" repeated at me.
I’m not sure that the words themselves are cursed, but they can be used to curse others. The definition of the “F word,” aside from sexual context, referees to something being severely damaged or otherwise being severely harmed. So by saying F*** you, one is asserting the desire for something terrible to happen to the other person. Much like a curse. Hence the term curse word. Don’t quote me on the accuracy of this as being its historical inception. I just came to that conclusion using logic.

That was what I was trying to get across. But you did it far better.

The definition of the “F word,” aside from sexual context, referees to something being severely damaged or otherwise being severely harmed. So by saying F*** you, one is asserting the desire for something terrible to happen to the other person. Much like a curse. Hence the term curse word. Don’t quote me on the accuracy of this as being its historical inception. I just came to that conclusion using logic.

It doesn't cover all the parts of speech that the word can be used for though, for example the well known wartime RAF saying:

"The fucking fucker is fucking fucked."

The fact that it can also be used as a term of endearment isn't covered by your statement either.

Meh, so it's not true. No biggie. It's still a great story.

That was what I was trying to get across. But you did it far better.
I can even go one further. I can tell you the difference between a curse and a swear. A curse, as mentioned above, has the tendency for one person or party to wish harm to befall another person or party. In instances such as “F*** you” and “why don’t you F****** die” would be instances of wishing harm on others, hence making them a curse. Where as a swear is making an implication on another person claiming them to be something. Cases such as “your are a F****** moron” and “you stupid F****** F***” would both be cases of swearing as they are implying something towards another person or party. Where indeed such instances may be insulting, instances where one blurts out F*** whenever they are in some way harmed, should not be considered offensive.

It doesn't cover all the parts of speech that the word can be used for though, for example the well known wartime RAF saying:

"The fucking fucker is fucking fucked."

The fact that it can also be used as a term of endearment isn't covered by your statement either.
I was just explaining why I think people consider it to be a "curse" word. But yes. There are many, many ways to use that word in casual conversations that are not intended to be insulting.

It's just taboo. There isn't a reason for it, if you will, but it's there and breaking the taboo can be very dangerous, not that social standing is currency like it was back in the tribal years.

This is actually something that happened a long long time ago, but for some reason most of it still lies etched in my brain.

Why is it that some people are offended by certain words? This question has plagued me for quite some time. I debated somebody once on this very subject. Well it was really more of an argument. I uttered the ever dreaded “F” word and somebody took great offence at me doing so. I asked why they were so deeply offended. Their response was far from enlightening. “Because you said the F word.” So then I asked what makes the word offensive. The following response was just as bad. “Because it just is.” So here is a complete transcript of the entire conversation, that in which I can recall anyways id did happen some time ago.

Not me: Watch your mouth.
Me: Why, what I say?
Not me: You said the F word
Me: OK??? And that’s offensive how?
Not me: Because it just is.
Me: Nothing "just is." There has to be a reason for it. Now what is it?
Not me: Because you can’t just go out in public and say stuff like that.
Me: Why not?
Not me: Because you can be arrested for lewd conduct.
Me: Why, what’s so wrong with what I’m saying?
Not me: Because people find it offensive.
Me: But why? What is so wrong with that word that people find it offensive?
Not me: Look my mother used to get drunk and use that word all the time.
Me: So it seems as though you only should only have a problem with the way in which that word can be used. So what’s wrong with the word when I’m not using it in an offensive manner?
Not me: Look, people just aren‘t going to want you talking like that around their children.
Me: Why not?
Not me: Because it’s offensive

OK I lied, it’s not a complete transcript, but you can see the direction in which this is going. Anyways I kept asking why and she just kept using the same damn ad hoc argument. It got to the point where she wanted to change the subject. But I wanted a resolution and kept pushing for a suitable answer. But then she pulled out the most powerful weapon in any woman’s arsenal. She started crying and then she ran away. Leaving of course the entire argument unsolved and possible for another day. Another day which eventually did come. A day in which everything was repeated relatively verbatim. Even the crying. Situation still unresolved.

In this particular case, Crabcake, the woman you mentioned seems to have painful memories of her mother using the word "fuck" while drunk. Therefore, she has a really negative association for the word "fuck", an association you were unaware of. Now that you know, it would be kind of you not to use the word in her presence.
In general, I dislike the use of the word "fuck" because it cheapens the concept of human sexual intercourse. Now I suspect you'll object to my use of the word 'cheapens', but what I'm trying to imply (clumsily) is that sex is a mysterious, powerful, significant part of life, and the word "fuck", along with many other words and phrases related to the sexual sphere of existence, suggests a casual nature to sex that I don't agree with.
It annoys me much more when people use the names "God" or "Jesus Christ" as swearwords, because God is more important to me than sex.
Note to moderator: if you read my post, you'll see that my use of the word
"fuck" is relevant to my post, so I hope if you disagree, you'll edit me instead of deleting the whole post.

I can even go one further. I can tell you the difference between a curse and a swear. A curse, as mentioned above, has the tendency for one person or party to wish harm to befall another person or party. In instances such as “F*** you” and “why don’t you F****** die” would be instances of wishing harm on others, hence making them a curse. Where as a swear is making an implication on another person claiming them to be something. Cases such as “your are a F****** moron” and “you stupid F****** F***” would both be cases of swearing as they are implying something towards another person or party. Where indeed such instances may be insulting, instances where one blurts out F*** whenever they are in some way harmed, should not be considered offensive.

How does the exclamation "fuck!" fit into all this?

This is actually something that happened a long long time ago, but for some reason most of it still lies etched in my brain.

Why is it that some people are offended by certain words?...


It's called political correctness.

How does the exclamation "fuck!" fit into all this?
What? :confused:

It's called political correctness.
I am sure it pre-dates political correctness by several centuries.

Although, it could be seen as being a fore runner to PC.

What? :confused:

According to your definitions of cursing and swearing, there is no category into which a simple exclamation will fit.

I am sure it pre-dates political correctness by several centuries.

Although, it could be seen as being a fore runner to PC.

How about class warfare as a possible explanation? It has always been acceptable to use latinate and romance terms such as coitus, sexual intercourse or fornication, but the good old earthy anglo-saxon phrase has been censored throughout most of its history. I blame the Normans and their setting up of French as the language of the ruling class after 1066.




***
Note, I do not really believe this as an explanation, but it is somewhat convincing.

Edit: greengrocer's apostrophe.

In this particular case, Crabcake, the woman you mentioned seems to have painful memories of her mother using the word "fuck" while drunk. Therefore, she has a really negative association for the word "fuck", an association you were unaware of. Now that you know, it would be kind of you not to use the word in her presence.
In general, I dislike the use of the word "fuck" because it cheapens the concept of human sexual intercourse. Now I suspect you'll object to my use of the word 'cheapens', but what I'm trying to imply (clumsily) is that sex is a mysterious, powerful, significant part of life, and the word "fuck", along with many other words and phrases related to the sexual sphere of existence, suggests a casual nature to sex that I don't agree with.
It annoys me much more when people use the names "God" or "Jesus Christ" as swearwords, because God is more important to me than sex.
Note to moderator: if you read my post, you'll see that my use of the word
"fuck" is relevant to my post, so I hope if you disagree, you'll edit me instead of deleting the whole post.
I am well aware of the connotations involved in cases of abuse. The problem is that I don’t know everybody’s past history. It isn’t written all over their face, and most people would prefer to just keep it all locked up inside instead of dealing with thing. Leaving their person problems to fester. Now I try to restrain myself when I know that they have a problem. But I can never know who all has problems with what connotations and I‘m not always aware that people with such problems are within earshot.

According to your definitions of cursing and swearing, there is no category into which a simple exclamation will fit.
Oh :D
That's because it doesn't. They're taking an extra step and just calling the word itself a curse or a swear regardless of how it's being used. Just like how people call a, e, i, o, u, y vowels all the time when all that a vowel really is, is the letter which causes a syllable in a word. Sure only those letters will cause a syllable, but that doesn't make them all vowels all of the time.

I am well aware of the connotations involved in cases of abuse. The problem is that I don’t know everybody’s past history. It isn’t written all over their face, and most people would prefer to just keep it all locked up inside instead of dealing with thing. Leaving their person problems to fester. Now I try to restrain myself when I know that they have a problem. But I can never know who all has problems with what connotations and I‘m not always aware that people with such problems are within earshot.

That's reasonable enough, and I'm not suggesting that you never use words that might cause offence to some stranger passing by; that would be near-impossible. My other comments on the use of the word "fuck" still stand. Do you think using such sexual language in general conversation affects your attitude towards sex?

That's reasonable enough, and I'm not suggesting that you never use words that might cause offence to some stranger passing by; that would be near-impossible. My other comments on the use of the word "fuck" still stand. Do you think using such sexual language in general conversation affects your attitude towards sex?
I’ll agree with you on that. But since they are fucking it more than likely that someone will pass on an STD. Hence making them fucked in more than one way. :D

I’ll agree with you on that. But since they are fucking it more than likely that someone will pass on an STD. Hence making them fucked in more than one way. :D

Is this a flamebait? It seems less coherent than your usual level of discussion.

Is this a flamebait? It seems less coherent than your usual level of discussion.
I certainly wasn't trying for anything such as flamebait.

I certainly wasn't trying for anything such as flamebait.

Then I guess I just didn't understand the relevance of your comment to the discussion. If it was a joke, then sorry for being slow. If it was a non-sequitur, then it was a pretty effective one.

I still blame the Victorian Era. Now I'm pretty sure I can make a guess- maybe it had to do with the fact that they started the whole "euphemism" trend, and using the original word would be seen as offensive. (Just like some gradually, especially words that refer to race, change over time as one word takes on offensive qualities and a new one has to be devised, and using the original word is extremely insulting.)