NationStates Jolt Archive

Last night this guy and his girl got into a fight. Why? Because her boyfriend was chatting with *MY* girlfriend. Now, most of those who know me know that if there was any chance of this guy getting after my girl, I would have been watching closely. There was no chance of that happening because my girl is PREGNANT, and from where I stand, very much in love with me.

So anyway, this girl flips the fuck out, and tries to start a fight with MY PREGNANT GIRLFRIEND. I tell the guy to get his drunk ass skank of a girlfriend out of our face, before anything else happened. Well the guy is cool about it and he tries to get his wench to leave. She makes a HUGE scene in front of the entire 100 people or so party, and finally slaps her boyfriend.

'WTF?' I think, but it was only getting started. The guy was a man about it, and turned away to walk off. This bitch then had the gall to hit him in the back of the head with her beer bottle, and proceeds to kick him as he went down.

He tackles her, and holds her down for a bit, but it's not helping. She just goes wild and scratches his face.

Well he comes back up, and still remains calm, walking away and trying to staunch the savage cut on his head. The girl, whore that she was, kept slapping the cut and laughing, calling him a 'Big man' and shit like that, just daring him to fight back. This went on for a long time until finally she kicked him in the back and he turned around on her.

He socked her in the face, put her down good.

Now, I'm definately not a woman beater. My dad kicked the shit out of my mom right in front of me for a long, long time. That finally ended, and I refuse to watch any man smack around a woman.

But, in this case I think she deserved it. Crazy bitch, she could have hurt this guy real, real bad scratching at his eyes and hitting him with the bottle, and still he was cool about it. The kick to the small of the back was the topping on the cake, and he gave the bitch what she deserved in my opinion. I would have knocked her out after the bottle incident, but that's just me and my raging temper.

So, there's the question: Do you think she deserved it? Would you have busted her face and spit on her? Or would you have remained 'above' your animal instincts, and been maturely aloof from the whole situation?

I am a guy,
230lbs
5'11''
My entire life my mother always told me one thing about hitting women.
(By the way my mother when I was 21 punched me in the face and then tried to bite my nose off so she is a fighter, I told her to blow me, so I deserved it.)
Any way she always said that if a WOMAN is MAN enough to hit a MAN, then she is MAN enough to get hit like one.
Point blank a woman hits me with a fist, I will hit her back with one.
She hits me with a beer bottle from behind...she better run.

Hell yea she deserved it. I mean honestly, im not a guy who would ever hit a girl, but there is a point where if shes really hurting you and persistently hits or beats on you and your trying to keep your cool that I would end up hitting her back to get her to back the hell off.

Was his retaliation justified? ABSOLUTLY. She totally had it coming. Dont ever hit a guy repeatedly and not expect some kind of reaction. It served her right.



Note: Id never hit a girl unless i was seriously gettin hurt as in that guys case, so dont think im a woman beater cuz im not. Ive actually never hit a girl, and never will unless provoked to the absolute limit.

i'm sorry but i think it's completely immoral to hit a woman under any circumstance! guys are a lot stronger and able top do a lot more damage, why couldn't he just leave?

i'm sorry but i think it's completely immoral to hit a woman under any circumstance! guys are a lot stronger and able top do a lot more damage, why couldn't he just leave?



Thats the thing. He tried to numerous times and the girl still tried beatin on em. That calls for a serious ass whipin whether she was a girl or not

My views on physical violence:

It's one thing to hit someone to defend yourself -- as in they are hitting you, or coming at you with intent to harm -- with a weapon in hand or a raised fist. It's quite another to hit someone because you feel like it or because you feel safe they won't dare to hit you back.

She was a bully and attacked him. Why he even goes out with such a psychopath I will never know. Hitting her to get her off him: 100% justified. I'd have take it further, though: I'd have called the cops and had her arrested for assault as well. If he's got half a brain he should drop her. No telling when he'll end up waking up to a knife between the ribs if she's that violent and crazy.


My $.02.

Now I don't believe in the 'never hit a girl' school of thought. I believe in the 'it's better not to hit people' although sometimes violence can't be avoided. When it can't be avoided it doesn’t really mater about the sex. In your case it defiantly couldn't be avoided.

i'm sorry but i think it's completely immoral to hit a woman under any circumstance! guys are a lot stronger and able top do a lot more damage, why couldn't he just leave?


Did you miss the part where she assaulted him with a potentially deadly weapon (the beer bottle to the back of the skull)?

Is it then justified for women to beat/humiliate their significant others? Because believe me, I sometimes feel VERY outnumbered in a world in which my fellow Double-X-Chromosomers seem to think they can slap, punch, scratch, kick and otherwise pummel men with impunity, and then act all outraged if he has the audacity to hit back.

Not precisely a terribly good argument for equal treatment of women -- "Treat me equal except when I can use being a girl to my advantage!"

Thats the thing. He tried to numerous times and the girl still tried beatin on em. That calls for a serious ass whipin whether she was a girl or not

he shouldn't have let her get drunk enough to do that in the first place and if he'd carried on walking and got in a car then she wouldn't have been able to hit him

This guy is insanely kickass. After we got rid of the girl, we cleaned him up and he returned to hte party. Last time I saw him he was being nursed to health by a very sympathetic, very curvy mexican girl. I think he's figured out that the psycho was just that, and nothing else.

But, we don't call the cops around here, ever. Otherwise her ass would be in jail for awhile. Civil idstubrances in Texas are a bitch.

he shouldn't have let her get drunk enough to do that in the first place and if he'd carried on walking and got in a car then she wouldn't have been able to hit him
I believe she is in control of her own alcohol consumption. Free will, remember?

Yeah, I'm usually dead against it, but she had it comming. Bedou, I love that quote :p

Did you miss the part where she assaulted him with a potentially deadly weapon (the beer bottle to the back of the skull)?

Is it then justified for women to beat/humiliate their significant others? Because believe me, I sometimes feel VERY outnumbered in a world in which my fellow Double-X-Chromosomers seem to think they can slap, punch, scratch, kick and otherwise pummel men with impunity, and then act all outraged if he has the audacity to hit back.

Not precisely a terribly good argument for equal treatment of women -- "Treat me equal except when I can use being a girl to my advantage!"
i'm not saying that the woman was justified, i think the way she acted was completely disgusting and up to the point where the guy hit her she was embarassing herself a lot more than she was embarassing the guy

I believe she is in control of her own alcohol consumption. Free will, remember?

no, i wouldn't let one of my friends get into that state, i know they'd end up embarassing themselves

This guy is insanely kickass. After we got rid of the girl, we cleaned him up and he returned to hte party. Last time I saw him he was being nursed to health by a very sympathetic, very curvy mexican girl. I think he's figured out that the psycho was just that, and nothing else.

But, we don't call the cops around here, ever. Otherwise her ass would be in jail for awhile. Civil idstubrances in Texas are a bitch.

If you ask me (which you didn't ;)) jail is exactly where she needs to be.

And fairy tinkerbelly, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. In my opinion the guy did everything he reasonably could before resorting to violence. What you seem to be asking for here is a man with superhuman patience. What we have is, in my opinion, a human being who had had enough.

What she did was no different from some man beating his girlfriend for looking at another guy -- and curiously enough, people don't seem to get so upset when in those circumstances, the girl picks up a chair and wallops her assailant. I'd say he was quite restrained.

no, i wouldn't let one of my friends get into that state, i know they'd end up embarassing themselves
Even with intervention she had the choice to drink. She can't be looked after every second and you can't really expect anyone to.

I don't believe in hitting anyone. Who would start a fight with someone pregnant, though?

She had it coming. She was prepeatedly assulting him, and he reacted in self defense.

I'm against hitting women unless they do shit like this. Women are not frail daddy's-girls, they can seriously injure a man if they tried. Well, she was trying and she got knocked the fuck out. She had it a long time coming, especially after hitting him with a bottle.

NOW, if he would have continued to hit her after she was down, then that would be wrong. But he didn't, so the only one to blame is the psycho bitch.

So, there's the question: Do you think she deserved it?
Yes.

I would hit a girl as i would hit a guy. They want equal rights, they can..

ok, i've read through it a few times and i've decided that she was completely out of order and a complete psycho (especially since she started on a pregnant woman) and she did deserve a smack but i don't think she should have been allowed to get into that state in the first place, if people can't handle their booze properly they shouldn't drink so much, and a good friend wouldn't let them, if you had a mate that was a guy that got violent after a few drinks would you let him drink so much knowing that he might end up hitting you?

I would hit a girl as i would hit a guy. They want equal rights, they can..
but you could hit a girl a hell of a lot harder than she could hit you!

the woman was utterly out of control and needed to be restrained before she hurt someone even more seriously.

restrained

why didnt the men in the room restrain her so there would be no need to punch her in the face?


the thing to remember is that men are very much stronger than women and they hit MUCH harder than women do. striking a woman should be a last resort.

in this case, it was better than letting her keep up her rampage.

but you could hit a girl a hell of a lot harder than she could hit you!

Thats not always true. It really doesn't matter what gender you are. Some boys don't eat anything and are as frail as a twig and some girls eat tons of meat and are freakin' huge. Also, if women weren't strong enough to hurt someone, then why are they in the military(USA). You have to know how to attack someone without any weapons at all. So I believe that it was justified and in pure self-defense.

Thats not always true. It really doesn't matter what gender you are. Some boys don't eat anything and are as frail as a twig and some girls eat tons of meat and are freakin' huge. Also, if women weren't strong enough to hurt someone, then why are they in the military(USA). You have to know how to attack someone without any weapons at all. So I believe that it was justified and in pure self-defense.
women shouldn't be in the military! i hate it when women think that they can do all the same stuff as men!

but you could hit a girl a hell of a lot harder than she could hit you!

My brother is a much better businessman than I am. Does that mean I have the right to start my own business -- but if I fail at it, am I to wail and say it's not fair and penalize him for doing well?

If she decided to hit, she decided to BE hit. If she didn't want to pay the consequences, she shouldn't have played the game.

The real problem I see in society today is a distinct lack of responsibility for one's own actions. Ex: You're not a drug dealer because you came from a bad neighborhood and were poor: my parent came from a bad neighborhood and had to cut freaking cardboard inserts for their shoes because they had holes in the soles. Instead of doing wrong because "woe is me, the world hates me" they did right and became a middle-class, respected member of the community.

She was responsible for her own drink. She was responsible for her own actions. She is responsible for dealing with the consequences. To say anything else is discriminatory -- because then you are saying that AS A WOMAN she needs protecting, is not mentally capable of choosing between right and wrong, and is not responsible for her actions. How then does this separate her from a child or a pet?

he shouldn't have let her get drunk enough to do that in the first place and if he'd carried on walking and got in a car then she wouldn't have been able to hit him
LOL...I guess you are a girl

i hate it when women think that they can do all the same stuff as men!

And why can't we?

And why can't we?

Because each gender is made up of replicas of each other, with set abilities.

AS A WOMAN she needs protecting, is not mentally capable of choosing between right and wrong, and is not responsible for her actions. How then does this separate her from a child or a pet?

1) there's nothing wrong with a woman needing protection!
2) when you're drunk you don't necassarily consider the consequences of your actions and therefore may not be capable of deciphering between what's right and what's wrong
3) the more you drink the less able you are to decide you need to stop and therefore you need someone to tell you to stop

The real problem I see in society today is a distinct lack of responsibility for one's own actions.

She was responsible for her own drink. She was responsible for her own actions. She is responsible for dealing with the consequences. To say anything else is discriminatory
Very...VERY well said.... 5 stars

LOL...I guess you are a girl
it took me to say that for you to realise?! most people guess from my nation name lol

And why can't we?
women are built differently to men, we're built to do different things, if we were all meant to be able to do the same things then we would have evolved so that there was just one gender that can all reproduce with each other

Because each gender is made up of replicas of each other, with set abilities.


Replica means copy, so I am not sure what you mean.

Now, I am not saying that at five foot tall, and my lack of grace, speed and strength, I expect that I would be capable at being a football player in the NFL -- but there are plenty of things I can do just as well, if not better, than a man.

I assure you, I can shoot. I can aim like a man, I can pull the trigger like a man, and I can hit the target, like a man.

So, again, why should a woman not do something she is mentally and physically capable of?

1) there's nothing wrong with a woman needing protection!
2) when you're drunk you don't necassarily consider the consequences of your actions and therefore may not be capable of deciphering between what's right and what's wrong
3) the more you drink the less able you are to decide you need to stop and therefore you need someone to tell you to stop

Maybe people who take no responsibility for themselves need to be cared for like a child.

I have grown up.

To Tinkerbelly, to say that women are weaker then men, or that women are less capable then men (in certain fields) is untrue.

It is true that women tend to be weaker though. If you want I could easily provide pictures of women stronger then me, for example.

Now, I am not saying I would be capable at being a football player in the NFL
Good point...They say im Big 'n' tough...But most NFL linebackers are way stronger than me....

That does not give me the rigth to strike Ray Lewis with a Broken Bottle...and claim that he cant strike back...BECAUSE IM WEAKER THAN HIM

Personally, here's what I think of it:

I would've done the same as that guy. I'm a pacisfist of sorts, but not the stupid kind of pacifist. He gave her a chance and was a gentlemen about the slap, that was cool. Had she had brains, she would've know that you don't attack someone bigger and stronger than you unless you're prepared to lose. I'm not saying you should never fight somebody bigger than you: just that unless you're dumb you DON'T ever hit first. Actually, make that if you're not dumb you don't ever hit first, period.

The guy was clearly acting in self-defense. He didn't attack, he even tried to ignore her attacking him by walking away. That was the adult and civilized thing to do. She pressed on attacking him when she could just have let him walk away. When he realized she wouldn't quit, and that she could seriously hurt him unless he did something( bottle and kick and all), he used what force was necessary to end the threat to his security, and stopped at that. That seems to me a normal, self-preservation reaction, with enough compassion and judgement to just stop her attack without hurting her any more than necessary.

If anyone is suggesting he should let her have beaten him to death and bled him with a broken beer bottle without lifting a finger because she's a girl, I disagree.

My two cents. One should get close up, and restrain using non-damaging grip stances, thats to best way to stop anybody getting hurt pnce shes starts moving that broken bottle around. I've done that before, then get the offending person/object outta her site.

JiangGuo

My two cents. One should get close up, and restrain using non-damaging grip stances, thats to best way to stop anybody getting hurt pnce shes starts moving that broken bottle around. I've done that before, then get the offending person/object outta her site.

JiangGuo
If you are trying to strike me with a broken bottle...I will not try to grip you...I dont care what sex you are.

My two cents. One should get close up, and restrain using non-damaging grip stances, thats to best way to stop anybody getting hurt pnce shes starts moving that broken bottle around. I've done that before, then get the offending person/object outta her site.

JiangGuo

..And...if I have gone bananas and im trying to cut you with a Broken Glass...you would be a fool to try to "grip me"....

women shouldn't be in the military! i hate it when women think that they can do all the same stuff as men!

So you're saying that no women should be in the military? Isn't that just a slight bit discriminatory? There are plenty of women out there who can take on the male grunt out there in hand-to-hand combat. Also, women thinkly differently than men, so they offer plenty of service both intellectually as well as physically. Stereotypes are simply guidelines, not rules. Don't sweep all women under one category.

Funny...that was the same argument that males used to deny the vote to women up until the early 1920's. Replace "women" w/"blacks" and "men" w/"whites", and you have the justification for slavery and race discrimination.

Equal rights, equal responsibility...

So you're saying that no women should be in the military? Isn't that just a slight bit discriminatory? There are plenty of women out there who can take on the male grunt out there in hand-to-hand combat. Also, women thinkly differently than men, so they offer plenty of service both intellectually as well as physically. Stereotypes are simply guidelines, not rules. Don't sweep all women under one category.

Funny...that was the same argument that males used to deny the vote to women up until the early 1920's. Replace "women" w/"blacks" and "men" w/"whites", and you have the justification for slavery and race discrimination.

Equal rights, equal responsibility...
men are better than women at some things just as women are better than men at other things. Women are designed (physically and emotionally) to have children etc., men can't do that, it's physically impossible so women should just stick to doing that because it's unfair to take over men's jobs, we can't do everything!

*Katganistan walks into room, looks at calendar...*

I see the problem.

*Katganistan flips forward from the 12th century to the 21st, then leaves.*

men are better than women at some things just as women are better than men at other things. Women are designed (physically and emotionally) to have children etc., men can't do that, it's physically impossible so women should just stick to doing that because it's unfair to take over men's jobs, we can't do everything!

It's also been proven in countless studies that women perform a lot more at school than men. Maybe we should stop educating men, and let women run everything? After all, they're more intelligent than we are, for the most part.

Come with me, let's all get back to farming land and working in factories! We're so much better at that than managing the world, anyway.


...


I'm only half kidding. I'm sure the world would be a better place if women were in charge instead of men. But your idea that women should just stay home and be baby factories because they're the only one who can is so chauvinistic that I feel like I'm about to barf.

By that logic, women should give life.

Men should destroy it: we're so good at killing, aren't we?

ok then, if that's what you want, let women go out and take all the jobs whilst men sit at home unemployed, who needs anyone to stay at home and have kids anyway, it's not like we need them for the survival of the human race!...............o wait! YES, WE DO!

ok then, if that's what you want, let women go out and take all the jobs whilst men sit at home unemployed, who needs anyone to stay at home and have kids anyway, it's not like we need them for the survival of the human race!...............o wait! YES, WE DO!

You really need to move to the city -- then you could see men and women working together and society not falling apart.

guys are a lot stronger and able top do a lot more damage, why couldn't he just leave?

They don't have to be. You get weedy guys and strong girls.

If I got into a fight with a guy I’d be really offended if the only reason he wouldn't hit me was because i'm a girl!!

Positive discrimination is still discrimination and highly offensive to me. it implies i'm to weak to handle anything I started, and I’d like to say that 6 yrs of martial arts training and four years of long sword fighting means that any guy that offends me had better watch out.

i'm 5'4 about 9 stone and regally floor my male 6'5 13 stone sparing partner even when i'm wearing 30 pound chain mail and plate armour.

Girls aren’t necessarily weaker than guys, a stereotype like that can only hinder equality.

You really need to move to the city -- then you could see men and women working together and society not falling apart.
Blackpool is a city!

ok then, if that's what you want, let women go out and take all the jobs whilst men sit at home unemployed, who needs anyone to stay at home and have kids anyway, it's not like we need them for the survival of the human race!...............o wait! YES, WE DO!

Well, confining all fertile women from working, and making them baby making machines would be just as disastrous for the human race as not having children.

Similarly, there are enough jobs for both men and women to be employed.

I would beat anyone for hitting me with their fist. Even though I have never hit a woman if one is beating me I would.

women and men aren't the same, true enough. however, there are some things that we're both equally able to do. we can both equally well work computers, or read or a bunch of the basic skill that are needed for juobs. men might be stonger, in general, and women are the child bearers, but that doesnt mean that we cant both do those jobs that use the basic skills that we both have.

This situation is touchy. If the women deliberatly struck the man with a potentially lethal weapon, the bottle, than I would say the man has the full right to strike back with his own fists. If someone punches me, I'm going to punch back, plain and simple.....and I'm a decent sized guy, too...6'1, 195lbs.....I would never deliberatley strike a girl, unless they punched me first....and even then, I would try my hardest not to hurt them as bad as I could....

If the woman hit the guy while drunk then he did the right thing to try and avoid the situation then use minimal force to stop her from causing further harm. I respect his restraint and have to say I completely agree with his decision.

If she where sober I would say do exactly the same, try to avoid the situation then if that’s not viable then use minimal force to end it.

This goes for all confrontational situations, not just those envolving a guy and a woman. Women shouldn't be treated differently JUST because they're women.

Tinkerbelly, go find some self-respect, and then come back and speak your side.... dignity, also....

She attacked him first and he was trying to end a petty squabble. He was plenty justified.

Your responsible for your actions, whether your drunk or not. She had it coming.

OK, to these strange people who think women are sooo weak and frail.

Me and my wife used to go to the BAr all the time.
And not those little 20 something club fairyb*tchboy dance places.
I mean BARS.
My wife would hustle pool.
And pick fights.
It was a gimme that she would start a problem and leave me to get hit in the head.
On one such occasion(Saint Patricks day 2 years ago)
We had just ordered our first beers(not drunk yet)
She walked over to the pool table.
I followed about 2 mins. behind.
The guy she had been speaking to asked
"You her boy friend?"
She answered "No f&ckr, thats my husband"
Bam I get hit in the mouth
I grab a pool ball and ring this guys bell.
He grabs me because does not want me to hit him with the pool ball again.
What did he forget?
My wife.
My 5'4'' 115lb wife.
Bareknuckled busted his forehead wide open gouged hiseyes fattened his lips and broke his nose, the whole time he was holding my arms trying to keep me from hitting with the pool ball again(dont do this because you can kill someone with a poolball) .
His friends didnt want to hit a "girl".
So he got wrecked.
The owner through him out because he saw the guy jaw me for no reason.
Point is anyway, this is 2004 women are our equals-period.
Pants or skirt I will knock you the f&ck out....or my wife will

Blackpool is a city!
Blackpool
Population: 146,262 in city.
I live in a suburb of Detroit.
We had 300,000 people turn out for our fireworks.
146,262 is village.

An ariticle on Blackpool
http://www.emcit.com/emcit104.shtml#Rocky

Hitting a woman is wrong but it is just as bad to hit a male. I dont see that there is any difference.

but you could hit a girl a hell of a lot harder than she could hit you!
Physically, probably. But I don't think I could ever willingly cause as much damage to a girl as she could to me.

I do think that the crazy bitch in this scenario had it coming though.

There is no reason to ever hit a lady. But that sure as hell was not a lady. Now it seems as though the guy tried really hard to restrain himself, but she just kept pushing and pushing and pushing. Even after getting hit with a bottle he still restrained himself. Me, that would have been enough for a socking right there. But that guy had some real restraint on him.

women shouldn't be in the military! i hate it when women think that they can do all the same stuff as men!
Well, mostly they can. I mean, in general, physically men come out on top. But I don't think that outside of, say, Olympic events there aren't women who can match men for pretty much anything.

men are better than women at some things just as women are better than men at other things. Women are designed (physically and emotionally) to have children etc., men can't do that, it's physically impossible so women should just stick to doing that because it's unfair to take over men's jobs, we can't do everything!*tries to get his head around crazy concepts*

Unfair that you are allowed to do whatever job you wish to?
You can't do everything so there should be set limits to what you're allowed to do?

ok then, if that's what you want, let women go out and take all the jobs whilst men sit at home unemployed, who needs anyone to stay at home and have kids anyway, it's not like we need them for the survival of the human race!...............o wait! YES, WE DO!I feel like I'm living in a parallel universe where Emily Pankhurst never existed to dismiss reactionary statements as mind-bogglingly weird as this one.

You know, something a lot of peopelo forget: You need a girl AND a guy to have kids :p.


That sperm ain't useless, you know. Eeeeeeeevery sperm is saaaaaaaacred...

Ok, on the "boyfriend should have stopped her drinking so much" statements. Here are two possible scenarios:

Boyfriend: I think you have had enough to drink now.

Girlfriend: You're right. Thanks for pointing that out for me.

Boyfriend: Thats OK, just looking out for you.

Girlfriend: What would I ever do with out you! *sigh*

OR

Boyfriend: I think you have had enough to drink now.

Girlfriend: Who the f@#k are you to tell me how much I can drink you sexist @sshole!!

Boyfriend: I am just trying to tell you that you should stop drinking before....*bottle smashes over head*

Girlfriend: *screaming* Don't tell me what I can and can't drink !!!!


Based on the story by the OP, I have a fair idea which would be the most likely of the two scenarios.

i hate the word 'lady' has so many images attached...

i hate the word 'lady' has so many images attached...
Like what?

(why do i always enter late?)

I would have smashed the bitch in the face.

. . .

But, we don't call the cops around here, ever. Otherwise her ass would be in jail for awhile. Civil idstubrances in Texas are a bitch.

SO??? That's exactly where she needs to be.

but you could hit a girl a hell of a lot harder than she could hit you!

I weight 200# and I am not particularly strong. If I start something with a weight lifter, male or female, who knows anything about how to fight, I will and should get my ass kicked.

If ANYone is stupid enough to start something physically violent with someone who can obviously beat them, or with anyone else, their target has the absolute right to use physical force in order to defend themself, regardless of their respective genders.

My ex-wife's idea of spousal abuse was when I twisted her wrist to make her drop the knife she was waving at me.

If women are so physically unequal that they cannot beat a man through violent means, they should not initiate violence, which no one should anyway.



- Dru

women shouldn't be in the military! i hate it when women think that they can do all the same stuff as men!

Like what, vote :p

Look, the thing is you girls CAN do all the same things as men. Other than pee standing up or conceive a baby girl on girl, I can't think of much else. In fact, their doing everything else right now.

I weight 200# and I am not particularly strong. If I start something with a weight lifter, male or female, who knows anything about how to fight, I will and should get my ass kicked.

If ANYone is stupid enough to start something physically violent with someone who can obviously beat them, or with anyone else, their target has the absolute right to use physical force in order to defend themself, regardless of their respective genders.

My ex-wife's idea of spousal abuse was when I twisted her wrist to make her drop the knife she was waving at me.

If women are so physically unequal that they cannot beat a man through violent means, they should not initiate violence, which no one should anyway.



- DruJust OOI, why is she an ex-wife?

Just OOI, why is she an ex-wife?

Gee I wonder... *rolls eyes because he does not have access to that eye rolly dealy*

Fairy Tinkerbell - Why are you using the internet? Shouldn't you be on your back, legs in the air, getting pregnant? Let your owne... err... your man use the internet, after all, he can't have babies.

Theodore Roosevelt once said: "Do not hit at all if it can be avoided, but never hit softly."

That's kinda my philosophy, too. (Although, being nonviolent, I rarely have to worry about that...)

After reading 5 pages of this, I think I can say:

The fairy tinkerbelly (and the woman in the fight) loses. :cool:

Women go on about equal rights and things, and if that was a guy he would have been flattened (or at least had it tried) after the first few swings. What that guy was doing with that girl in the first place I'll never know.

Like what?

Lady-(images it makes for me) delicate porcelain woman shut away by her husband, respectable (ie doesn't drink, go out late/unescorted)
You get the idea yeah? Idealised woman as defined in patriarchal Victorian society.

Or fundamentally religious

Lady-(images it makes for me) delicate porcelain woman shut away by her husband, respectable (ie doesn't drink, go out late/unescorted)
You get the idea yeah? Idealised woman as defined in patriarchal Victorian society.

Or fundamentally religious

To me, the word lady connotes someone who is well-mannered, considerate, good at managing herself and social situations -- someone classy and kind.

To me it doesn't mean fragile, child-like, and fettered by anyone's ideas of what she can and can't do.

Women go on about equal rights and things, and if that was a guy he would have been flattened (or at least had it tried) after the first few swings. What that guy was doing with that girl in the first place I'll never know.
Well my opinion would be the same.

As a group women tend to be weaker then men but when two individuals from that group come out strength doesn’t rely on sex anymore.

This was her fault, not her babysitters for not watching properly.

And as for women not being able to do a 'man's' job, well it depends on the individual woman. Just like it depends on the individual man.

I don't really get the 'them' and 'us' attitude because 'them' and 'us' is made of individuals who aren’t all that typical. Gender stereotypes are useful to a point but we can't rely on them to judge individuals.

-A woman who hates kids

To me, the word lady connotes someone who is well-mannered, considerate, good at managing herself and social situations -- someone classy and kind.

To me it doesn't mean fragile, child-like, and fettered by anyone's ideas of what she can and can't do.
Same here (or used as a title) and a gentlemen would be the male version.

Both words have changed since the Victorian times.

Look, the thing is you girls CAN do all the same things as men. Other than pee standing up or conceive a baby girl on girl, I can't think of much else. In fact, their doing everything else right now.

Actually, I think I've heard of a case where a woman HAS conceived a daughter, purely girl on girl; But not in a completely natural way. Some scientific manipulations were required, but it has been done.

It is also possible for a woman to pee standing up, but it'd probably be awkward for her, and more comfortable to sit down.

Actually, I think I've heard of a case where a woman HAS conceived a daughter, purely girl on girl; But not in a completely natural way. Some scientific manipulations were required, but it has been done.

It is also possible for a woman to pee standing up, but it'd probably be awkward for her, and more comfortable to sit down.
Upright urination requires a specific posture, UNLESS you acquired the 'MagicCone' that allows a woman to urinate upright (yes, they have invented one...)

I've also heard of men who like to urinate sitting down. Personally I'm too lazy to stand up.

Upright urination requires a specific posture, UNLESS you acquired the 'MagicCone' that allows a woman to urinate upright (yes, they have invented one...)

:D Do the European "stand on these footprints and squat" hole-in-the-floor toilets count as 'standing up'? ;)

If a woman hits me, I hit her back. Plain and simple. And when I do it, I always ask in an angry voice, "How do you like it? Huh?" That usually puts down any potential spat, and then we calm down and laugh about it. Or that's how it is with me and my girlfriend anyway; after all, she's at least mentally stable, unlike some people.

A guy has the right to use any force that is necessary to repel a woman's attacks. No feminist-controlled court system is going to tell me otherwise. My girlfriend's stepdad has a son who was stabbed by his girlfriend (that same woman, incidentally, had previously stabbed her brother.) He chose to have her prosecuted for it, and oddly enough, the court system actually took his side and have him their kids. This is a rare case where the courts don't just give the kids to the woman by default and stick the man for everything he has.

Blackpool
Population: 146,262 in city.
I live in a suburb of Detroit.
We had 300,000 people turn out for our fireworks.
146,262 is village.

England only has 9 cities with a population greater than 300,000, out of somewhere in the region of 100 cities. I think Lichfield only has a population of 27,000. Wells has a population of just 10,000.

Oh yes... conclusion... It might be hard to grasp the idea that size isn't everything, but city status (in the UK, at least) isn't based solely on population. Dartford is eight times the size of Wells, but it isn't a city.

Blackpool is still a total dive, though.

If a woman hits me, I hit her back. Plain and simple. And when I do it, I always ask in an angry voice, "How do you like it? Huh?" That usually puts down any potential spat, and then we calm down and laugh about it. Or that's how it is with me and my girlfriend anyway; after all, she's at least mentally stable, unlike some people.

A guy has the right to use any force that is necessary to repel a woman's attacks. No feminist-controlled court system is going to tell me otherwise. My girlfriend's stepdad has a son who was stabbed by his girlfriend (that same woman, incidentally, had previously stabbed her brother.) He chose to have her prosecuted for it, and oddly enough, the court system actually took his side and have him their kids. This is a rare case where the courts don't just give the kids to the woman by default and stick the man for everything he has.

A true feminist-controlled system would not take her side -- it would say, she did it? She deserved it!

It's the traditional patriarchal "Women and weak and need defending" attitude that you're actually complaining of.

A true feminist-controlled system would not take her side -- it would say, she did it? She deserved it!

It's the traditional patriarchal "Women and weak and need defending" attitude that you're actually complaining of.
That's not to say feminists aren't afraid to play on old stereotypes about patriarchal attitudes in order to make themselves immune from violence. Feminists know what people believe, and as long as they believe it, they use it to their advantage. They get battered husbands hauled off to jail for things their wives do to them. They get custrody, child support, and alimony - one of the greatest crimes on the books today in the U.S. - for unfaithful wives, forcing men to pay for kids they may not have even fathered. And don't say it doesn't happen.

Howabout just don't hit anyone?

I hit girls all the time. They hit me back all the time.

We kick the shit out of each other, and it's a blast.

Ok if this situation actually happened as you say, not calling you a liar, just saying if these are the circumstances, hell yeah she deserved it, he had every right to hit her. He tried multiple times to walk away and she would not let him. Hell she even cracked him with a beer bottle, which could have been real dangerous.
If a woman wants to play the man's game, ie fighting, soldiering, military, sports etc, then she better be prepared to play by the man's rules.
I once asked this guy what is it about men and this no hitting women rule, and he said it was about the size difference and men being stronger. So I asked him would he defend a man who was just built smaller than average because he would fit the smaller and not as strong rule too. He paused for a long time before he replied that he didn't know.
I am a 5'10" female. If I expect to be treated equal I have to be held up to the same standards. We women cannot claim equality then demand special treatment. I open doors for people and think it is just being courteous, I think it should work both ways. If a man had done that to another man no one would think twice about your friend hitting him, it should be the same for a woman. If she wants to pick the fight with a man then she can expect for the man to fight back.

Wanna know why I'm more likily to treat women better, smile wider when I hold the door open, not hit them, and all that stuff?

'Cause, you see, guys don't turn me on. And even if I don't know the girl, even if I KNOW I'll never see her again in my LIFE, I still like to look nice around them :p

Lady-(images it makes for me) delicate porcelain woman shut away by her husband, respectable (ie doesn't drink, go out late/unescorted)
You get the idea yeah? Idealised woman as defined in patriarchal Victorian society.

Or fundamentally religious
See, I just hear Bob Dylan

Lay Lady Lay
Lay across my big brass bed

That's not to say feminists aren't afraid to play on old stereotypes about patriarchal attitudes in order to make themselves immune from violence. Feminists know what people believe, and as long as they believe it, they use it to their advantage. They get battered husbands hauled off to jail for things their wives do to them. They get custrody, child support, and alimony - one of the greatest crimes on the books today in the U.S. - for unfaithful wives, forcing men to pay for kids they may not have even fathered. And don't say it doesn't happen.

1) I said a TRUE FEMINIST.

2) Check the statistics. Females who are convicted for battering their husbands get stiff sentences. Females convicted for killing their husbands, even in self-defense, also tend to get stiff sentences. Please do a bit of reading -- the world is changing.

3) More men are getting custody and child support -- which can be a very good thing. I don't think the female parent is always the best choice in the best interests of her children. There are some truly pathological moms out there who shouldn't be anywhere near a kid. (Just as there are truly pathological dads who should never see their kids).

4) That is what DNA testing is for, and judging from the bimbettes on Jerry Springer, Montel Williams, Ricki Lake et al, a damned good thing it is. It also tends to make guys accept responsibility when the tests show it IS his kid.

If that happens he has every right to defend himself (ie punch her) after being hit on the back of the head. What I would like to know is why nobody came to his aid in subduing this drunk who had demostrated inability to control herself in a socially approve fasion.

OK, was this on Jerry Springer?

Did you miss the part where she assaulted him with a potentially deadly weapon (the beer bottle to the back of the skull)?Actually, she battered him with a weapon. She assaulted a pregnant woman (in theory, I don't know the exact details of what transpired). In my book, those are both situations where the use of force is justified. Her being a woman changes nothing; she attacked/threatened three other people*, one of whom repeatedly tried to turn the other cheek, and one of whom could not. Hell, if she'd continued at his face, she could have frickin' blinded him (even if in only one eye, that would still be a severe injury).

I'm all for letting (in fact, encouraging) people to work their problems out themselves, but this woman is (from the limited evidence given) a danger to society, and you probably should have called the police.

* Four if we include Mr. Pantera himself.

I would fight/hit a girl, a little kid, a gay man, or a midget. But, then again, I have no pride, so there you go.

Depending on the girl and if she hit me first.

I'd rumble with a big, butch lesbian anyday because in all honesty, she could probably take me. But I wouldn't hit someone like Mary Kate. You know, an anorexic little girl whom would probably snap in half if I farted hard enough.

The situation would need assessment first.

1)


3) More men are getting custody and child support -- which can be a very good thing. I don't think the female parent is always the best choice in the best interests of her children. There are some truly pathological moms out there who shouldn't be anywhere near a kid. (Just as there are truly pathological dads who should never see their kids).


Amen to that! I know a few of those mom's :)

And as for the original topic I personally have this advantage of being big enough that unless the woman is flipping out I can restrain without having to hit :)

If I wasn’t … (and again I deplore domestic violence … if you are in the situation don’t just take it walk out) but in extreme circumstances it is alright to hit back

But every option has to be tried first … there are plenty of things you can do with a size difference besides hitting (such as forcibly just removing them from the area) that sort of thing.

And as always before the fight … the talk

1) I said a TRUE FEMINIST.

2) Check the statistics. Females who are convicted for battering their husbands get stiff sentences. Females convicted for killing their husbands, even in self-defense, also tend to get stiff sentences. Please do a bit of reading -- the world is changing.

3) More men are getting custody and child support -- which can be a very good thing. I don't think the female parent is always the best choice in the best interests of her children. There are some truly pathological moms out there who shouldn't be anywhere near a kid. (Just as there are truly pathological dads who should never see their kids).

4) That is what DNA testing is for, and judging from the bimbettes on Jerry Springer, Montel Williams, Ricki Lake et al, a damned good thing it is. It also tends to make guys accept responsibility when the tests show it IS his kid.

1. The word "feminist" today doesn't mean the same thing as it did back in the old days. Nowadays, ask any self-declared feminist if they believe that it's right for a man to hit a woman in self-defense and tell me what they say. Not to say that 100% will say no, but my money says a majority will. They might say "the man should go to the courts" who will probably laugh at him or not believe him.

2. Don't tell me for a minute that the world is changing - look at Hollywood for an example. Halle Berry was battered by David Justice, and we're all expected to feel sorry for her and see how evil Justice was. On the reverse of that, last year Chuck Finley of the Indians, or whoever he pitches for now, was beaten IN HIS CAR by Tawny Kitaen, his alleged wife, and he became a laughingstock. The attitude today is still that women can fall back on sympathy if their husbands hit them, but if a man is beaten by his wife, he's either a wimp or deserved it. The problem with saying that the world is changing is that not enough people believe it. That's why we have the so-called "battered woman defense" under which it's acceptable for a woman to kill her husband so long as he beat her. I always thought vigilante justice was looked down upon. And if a man tried the same defense, it would work about as well as the infamous Twinkie defense.

3. OK, so more and more men are getting custody. A few steps in the right direction isn't good enough. Plenty of judges will still give custody to the woman by virtual default no matter how many hoops the man jumps through, and as for all those men who do get custody - well, check the circumstances under which they got it. All other things equal, the woman still wins.

4. And don't even think about telling me that no man in the country is forced to pay child support for a child he didn't father, just because he signed the birth certificate believing the child was his. My girlfriend's late father was stuck paying for every last dime of his oldest daughter's medical expenses until she turned 18 - mind you, this included tampons, for crying out loud - when it was his no-good cheating wife who initiated the divorce, and there's by no means a guarantee that the child was his. In fact, he went to the grave convinced she wasn't. Did the courts care? Nope. There's no escape once the birth certificate is signed. The bottom line is this - the ex-wife was rewarded for being a cheating bitch and having a kid by another man. And it happens all over the country, and no daytime talk show in existence today can change that.

5. And I will reiterate this once again - alimony is one of the greatest crimes in the U.S. today. Child support is different, but no ex-wife (or I guess ex-husband) should be allowed to benefit from their ex's wealth, especially when the recipient of alimony initiated the divorce.

Bottom line is "force that a reasonable (person) would deem necessary and sufficient to defend their safety or the safety of another".

If I took a swing at Mike Tyson and he responded by punching me in the mouth as hard as he could, I doubt any jury would buy a self defence plea from him. Yeah I started it but for Mike Tyson, a punch as hard as he could would exceed the reasonable person test, as it would be far and away more than he would require to protect himself from an unarmed me.\

So in all such cases response must be compared to threat. The average man is heavier, stronger and more combat experienced than the average woman, so that should be what gets taken into account. OTOH if a six foot female professional wrestler was assaulted by the proverbial 98# weakling male from Charles Atlas' old ads who is unarmed, she had better show restraint if she wants the fact that she is defending herself to protect her from charges. If he has a bottle, though, she need restrain herself less, and if it's a broken bottle all bets are off...

...as far as I'm concerned any active attack of a not-physically-provoked person with a lethal weapon generally warrents a lethal response under the reasonable person rule. A black belt in an art that stresses disarms might still be on the hook if it was only a hand-to-hand weapon and s/he just went and killed the guy/gal and the prosecution could convince the jury that s/he could have just as easily disarmed them. If the attacker has a gun, fuck it all... as long as s/he is in control of the gun and threatening murder s/he puts their life in the hands of anyone who wants to try to stop them.



...but things are not quite this simple in the real world...



In the real world many states have laws that make "assault on a female" a crime in and of itself, or an exacerbating factor of an existing assault charge. Although well intentioned, in the real world not all fight siituations are as cut-and-dried as "A attacked B and B defended himself". So unless it is that cut-and-dried, and the male was defending himself against the female, there is an additional burden placed upon the male in any situation of cross genderal combativeness. And even then he'd better either have witnesses or far more serious injuries than she.

This is treated wrong. Firstly it should be split in two, and one half rewritten as a "spousal abuse" law with no specification of genders. The second part should include all crimes incident to a sexual assault under the umbrella of existing situations for invoking hate crimes statutes, again with no specification of gender. Other crimes that target women out of a demonstrable gender bias against are already covered by those statutes, so with the "reasonable person" rule for self defence there is absolutely NO reason to imbalance the protections of the people under the law by having specific "assault on a female" statutes in place.



- Dru

This guy seemed to put up with a lot before he got pissed. My only question is where was the hundred other people to hold her back? I've been to quite a bit of parties in my day, and most of the time when fights broke out; others would hold them back (probably because if the cops came, half the people would have been arrested for drug abuse)

Every thing is relative. I use to fight girls. They were part of my karate club. To treat them as inferior was disrespectful in my mind and so I was probally harder on them than some the guys weaker than me.

I saw it as doing them a favour because if they were attacked by a man in the street he wouldn't go easy on them. Unfortunately because of my habbit of treating them like equals my sensei use to pick me to fight them more than the other guys.

As to what I would have done to the girl trying to break the bottle over my head... (forgeting what I know about karate) I would have slapped her hard with the palm of my hand and if that didn't bring her to her senses push the bitch on the floor and sat on her back until she calmed down or the police came. Unless she was bigger than me and could fight, then I'd have to fight her properly.

Every thing is relative. I use to fight girls. They were part of my karate club. To treat them as inferior was disrespectful in my mind and so I was probally harder on them than some the guys weaker than me.

I saw it as doing them a favour because if they were attacked by a man in the street he wouldn't go easy on them. Unfortunately because of my habbit of treating them like equals my sensei use to pick me to fight them more than the other guys.

As to what I would have done to the girl trying to break the bottle over my head... (forgeting what I know about karate) I would have slapped her hard with the palm of my hand and if that didn't bring her to her senses push the bitch on the floor and sat on her back until she calmed down or the police came. Unless she was bigger than me and could fight, then I'd have to fight her properly.

Holding people down in a situation like that is probably the best option.

You're not really hurting them, AND they feel humiliated and angry.

I am a girl and i say if the girl hits first, the guy has a right to hit her back, i think that the guy did the right thing

fuckin hell!!!!!!!!! the fight for starters is a load of bollocks what type of country lets people fight in bars i mean god they should be lined up and shot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :sniper:

Being entirely in favour of equal rights for woman, I would've socked that bad bitch down.

Although women are less physically powerful than men. If somebody attacks you with a broken bottle I wouldnt let them do that again.......

I don't really believe in violence of any kind, against anyone. But in this case, even though I wouldn't have hit her, she was kinda asking for it. What that guy needs to do, is break up with her, or else it's jsut gonna be a violent relationship, like you see on the show COPS, or Reno 911

Theodore Roosevelt once said: "Do not hit at all if it can be avoided, but never hit softly."

That's kinda my philosophy, too. (Although, being nonviolent, I rarely have to worry about that...)

I love this quote


Personally I avoid violence (I think anyone a lot of people here … specially those in the martial arts agree)

But add another one my dad always said (who is very like me)
“Don’t ever start something … but if something gets started anyways … you better finish it”

But re reading through EVERYTHING I find this topic exceedingly intresting

I am not going to pick on tinkerbelly because she DOES have SOME points (which are also made by other people) generally male and females have different specialties … but that is by NO means a limit … rather just a statistical norm

That girl in the story did deserve to get “Stopped” in his case hit … I would have tried different things … but I have had a wider life experience then most which allows me the knowledge of such things

As for the consumption of alcohol … I get drunk myself … I know at the beginning of the night that if I start it might keep going … and I know what happens when I am drunk. (I’m not a violent drunk more silly … but I KNOW what I am like drunk through experience and I accept those consequences before I ever start)
She had free will when she started
She has free will when she beat him … and to an point where it NEEDED to be stopped
He did it in his way
And in my opinion was justified

She deserved it.

Inverted discrimination is sexism.

2. Don't tell me for a minute that the world is changing - look at Hollywood for an example. Halle Berry was battered by David Justice, and we're all expected to feel sorry for her and see how evil Justice was. On the reverse of that, last year Chuck Finley of the Indians, or whoever he pitches for now, was beaten IN HIS CAR by Tawny Kitaen, his alleged wife, and he became a laughingstock. The attitude today is still that women can fall back on sympathy if their husbands hit them, but if a man is beaten by his wife, he's either a wimp or deserved it.
That may be how YOU see it, but that's certainly not what I see from where I stand.


The problem with saying that the world is changing is that not enough people believe it. That's why we have the so-called "battered woman defense" under which it's acceptable for a woman to kill her husband so long as he beat her. I always thought vigilante justice was looked down upon. And if a man tried the same defense, it would work about as well as the infamous Twinkie defense.
Do your research. There are plenty of battered women in jail right now for killing their abusive spouses/boyfriends whatever.

3. OK, so more and more men are getting custody. A few steps in the right direction isn't good enough. Plenty of judges will still give custody to the woman by virtual default no matter how many hoops the man jumps through, and as for all those men who do get custody - well, check the circumstances under which they got it. All other things equal, the woman still wins.
Bull. See the case of ex-Playboy model Bridget Marks in the courts right now. Her twins were taken from her because the man with whom she had them -- in an affair -- is an Atlantic city mogul.

4. And don't even think about telling me that no man in the country is forced to pay child support for a child he didn't father, just because he signed the birth certificate believing the child was his. My girlfriend's late father was stuck paying for every last dime of his oldest daughter's medical expenses until she turned 18 - mind you, this included tampons, for crying out loud - when it was his no-good cheating wife who initiated the divorce, and there's by no means a guarantee that the child was his. In fact, he went to the grave convinced she wasn't. Did the courts care? Nope. There's no escape once the birth certificate is signed. The bottom line is this - the ex-wife was rewarded for being a cheating bitch and having a kid by another man. And it happens all over the country, and no daytime talk show in existence today can change that.
He had the worst lawyer in existence then.

5. And I will reiterate this once again - alimony is one of the greatest crimes in the U.S. today. Child support is different, but no ex-wife (or I guess ex-husband) should be allowed to benefit from their ex's wealth, especially when the recipient of alimony initiated the divorce.
Then I suppose you believe that Keven Federline doesn't deserve a dime if Britney Spears marries and subsequently divorces him.

First of all Pantera, I really feel bad for what you had to go through growing up. That's not the kind of thing any child should have to deal with.

Considering the fact that I have a pretty nasty temper, I would have hit her after the bottle incident too if I had been the guy. I definitely think the skank had it coming.

i've not got a nasty temper, and on the whole (unless in fun) i avoid fights, in fact i'm more likely to (stupidly) get in the middle of two people fighting, but this wasn't a drunken fight, this wasn't a guy abusing his girlfriend, this was a guy using reasonable force to stop his girlfriend hurting him... whats the problem

If a female stranger hits me meanfully, she'll be lucky if I don't break anything. I don't like being hit by anyone and I'll kick the shit out of anyone who tries to hit me, let alone someone who has...

If I know who you are, I'll let you off easy for a while, but if you continue on insisting upon hitting me, you're toast...

as a female, I think guys should hit us if we get out of line. What that chick was doing went way beyond. I'm not saying hit us whenever we disagree, but still, its called "self-protection"