NationStates Jolt Archive

As of July 15, 2004 The cable news race looks like this!

FOXNEWS OREILLY 2.0 [RATING]= 8:00 PM on Fox News
FOXNEWS HANNITY/COLMES 1.6= 9:00 PM on Fox News
FOXNEWS GRETA 1.6= 10:00 PM on Fox News
FOXNEWS SHEP 1.3= I'm thinking the Fox Report which is 7:00 PM on Fox News
CNN LARRY KING 1.1= 10:00 PM CNN
CNN AARON BROWN .6= Don't know what time
MSNBC HARDBALL .4= 11:00 PM
MSNBC OLBERMANN .4
MSNBC SCARBOROUGH .4 10:00 PM
CNN ZAHN .4
CNN COOPER .4
MSNBC NORVILLE .3
CNBC MILLER .2
CNBC MCENROE .1

This Proves beyond a doubt that when it comes to primetime cable new, Fox News is #1!

Since when does popular = accurate..lol :rolleyes:

As of July 15, 2004 The cable news race looks like this!

FOXNEWS OREILLY 2.0 [RATING]= 8:00 PM on Fox News
FOXNEWS HANNITY/COLMES 1.6= 9:00 PM on Fox News
FOXNEWS GRETA 1.6= 10:00 PM on Fox News
FOXNEWS SHEP 1.3= I'm thinking the Fox Report which is 7:00 PM on Fox News
CNN LARRY KING 1.1= 10:00 PM CNN
CNN AARON BROWN .6= Don't know what time
MSNBC HARDBALL .4= 11:00 PM
MSNBC OLBERMANN .4
MSNBC SCARBOROUGH .4 10:00 PM
CNN ZAHN .4
CNN COOPER .4
MSNBC NORVILLE .3
CNBC MILLER .2
CNBC MCENROE .1

This Proves beyond a doubt that when it comes to primetime cable new, Fox News is #1!

Excellent news!

Since when does popular = accurate..lol :rolleyes:

Noone said it did. :rolleyes:

Noone said it did. :rolleyes:

Yeh, but Formal Dances seems to think that Fox News is reliable, more so than the BBC. One can say that he is trying to prove that Fox News is popular because it is reliable when perhaps they are watching it because of the hilarity of the bias.

Yeh, but Formal Dances seems to think that Fox News is reliable, more so than the BBC. One can say that he is trying to prove that Fox News is popular because it is reliable when perhaps they are watching it because of the hilarity of the bias.

I can't see where anyone said that either...asides from your post of course.

I can't see where anyone said that either...asides from your post of course.

Understandable. Formal Dances and a former nation of mine had a debate over the reliability of certain media outlets before the Jolt transfer. I would try and find it for you but searching is disabled currently.

Suffice it to say, we both happily agreed to end the argument before it got ugly. No one won.

Tops in cable news, true, but even the lowest rated network news broadcast gets ratings about ten times as high as Fox gets on cable.

On a side note, I just saw from Amazon that I should be getting my dvd of the new documentary "Outfoxed" in the next three days or so. I'll post a review after I view it.

It is quite a sad reflection on the US if true.
Perhaps people just watch it for its comedy value.

Actually, I know quite a few people who watch it.

Half of them watch it because they believe it. The other half watch it, then torcure(sp?) the first half by pointing out all the biasm and holes in it :p

I have never watched Fox News because it is not broadcast in my country. So I neither like nor dislike it. I am just amused by people who take artistic licence with people's posts and end up arguing against opinions that were never expressed.

Actually, I know quite a few people who watch it.

Half of them watch it because they believe it. The other half watch it, then torcure(sp?) the first half by pointing out all the biasm and holes in it :p

What is biasm?

I would like someone to explain what makes Fox more biased than CNN or MSNBC. I often hear quotes about how O'Reilly and Hannity lean to the right. This is not really an argument since these shows are commentary programs, i.e. the television equivalent of talk radio. They are supposed to be biased in favor of the views of the host. Someone like Larry King or (when he was on MSNBC) Phil Donahue are no less biased in the other direction.

When it comes to actual news reporting there is a slight difference between Fox and its competitors. CNN and MSNBC both purposely slant their coverage to the left with snide remarks and editing soundbites in a way that would make Michael Moore proud. Fox, on the other hand, does live up to its "fair and balanced" motto when reporting straight news. In fact, I am quite sure that many of the regular reporters are more liberal than their bosses at the station. It is to their credit that they report in an objective manner.

As far as general philosophy Fox has made no secret that it does lean to the right. This is mainly seen in their specials and documentaries. This is where I usually have a problem as, conservative as I am, I am not a Christian. Too much of the special programming (excluding "War Stories") tackles controversial issues not from a conservative political point of view (i.e., strict constructionism and basic morality, regardless of religion) but from a Christian point of view. As much as I like O'Reilly's show he is the one most guilty of this in his occasional special presentations.

This, however, is not really any more biased than the other stations. CNN often presents documentaries from a purely leftist and, occasionally, anti-American point of view. (Before the barrage starts, I am basing it on pre-9/11 programming, as I do not automatically think that anyone who debates the current situation is anti-American unless they actually make comments about the U.S. being evil, terrorist, etc.)

As much as I dislike the leftist point of view on most issues there is absolutely nothing wrong with news stations that lean that way. Debate on a subject is always best. By the same token there is also nothing wrong with a lone, center/right station to provide some contrast. And for those who want to shut Fox down please remember that one thing that truly IS anti-American is to deny free speach.

I would like someone to explain what makes Fox more biased than CNN or MSNBC. I often hear quotes about how O'Reilly and Hannity lean to the right. This is not really an argument since these shows are commentary programs, i.e. the television equivalent of talk radio. They are supposed to be biased in favor of the views of the host. Someone like Larry King or (when he was on MSNBC) Phil Donahue are no less biased in the other direction.

Scrumpox, this had to be the best first part of a post I've think I've ever seen! Thanks! You've cut right to the matter on this issue and that is much appreciated!

When it comes to actual news reporting there is a slight difference between Fox and its competitors. CNN and MSNBC both purposely slant their coverage to the left with snide remarks and editing soundbites in a way that would make Michael Moore proud. Fox, on the other hand, does live up to its "fair and balanced" motto when reporting straight news. In fact, I am quite sure that many of the regular reporters are more liberal than their bosses at the station. It is to their credit that they report in an objective manner.

Fox News presents both sides of an issue. They always have a liberal and a conservative on but sometimes, and this does happen and its funny when it does, someone declines to attend. Normally this is a liberal because of the types of questions that the host asks! Their bosses are liberal but Fox News Ratings are on top so I think that they'll be around much longer!

As far as general philosophy Fox has made no secret that it does lean to the right. This is mainly seen in their specials and documentaries. This is where I usually have a problem as, conservative as I am, I am not a Christian. Too much of the special programming (excluding "War Stories") tackles controversial issues not from a conservative political point of view (i.e., strict constructionism and basic morality, regardless of religion) but from a Christian point of view. As much as I like O'Reilly's show he is the one most guilty of this in his occasional special presentations.

This unfornately is true! O'Reilly does have a high sense of morals and likes to state it on certian issues. I don't know about War Stories so I'll just leave it alone for the time being

This, however, is not really any more biased than the other stations. CNN often presents documentaries from a purely leftist and, occasionally, anti-American point of view. (Before the barrage starts, I am basing it on pre-9/11 programming, as I do not automatically think that anyone who debates the current situation is anti-American unless they actually make comments about the U.S. being evil, terrorist, etc.)

Couldn't be any Truer. I used to watch CNN! Yea I did. Why did I switch to Fox New? Because CNN tried to paint a Northern Alliance Attack on an ammo dump, at least the host did, on the USA and Fox News stated it was a Northern Alliance attack. Come to find out, it was a Northern Alliance Attack. Since then, I've been watching Fox News. This was After 9/11! The analyst on the CNN show tried to say it was a NA attack but the host kept interrupting the guest.

As much as I dislike the leftist point of view on most issues there is absolutely nothing wrong with news stations that lean that way. Debate on a subject is always best. By the same token there is also nothing wrong with a lone, center/right station to provide some contrast. And for those who want to shut Fox down please remember that one thing that truly IS anti-American is to deny free speach.

Thanks again Scrumpox for your very insightful post!

Tops in cable news, true, but even the lowest rated network news broadcast gets ratings about ten times as high as Fox gets on cable.

On a side note, I just saw from Amazon that I should be getting my dvd of the new documentary "Outfoxed" in the next three days or so. I'll post a review after I view it.

Here's a fact for ya! Most of the people that "claimed" they worked at FNC actually worked for Fox, not FNC!

Also those memos weren't true. Fox News issued a challenge on Joe Gibson's The Big Story that if other news outlets turned over their internal Memos, FNC would do the same, TO THE PUBLIC and let the Viewers decide who is Fair and Balanced.

I think this is a good idea and it will make all news networks accountable!

Maybe it just means that conservatives are more likely to get picked by Nielsen.

Makes me glad I don't have cable.

On a side note, I just saw from Amazon that I should be getting my dvd of the new documentary "Outfoxed" in the next three days or so. I'll post a review after I view it.

I ordered it too Incertonia.. I also ordered "Uncovered :The Whole Truth About The Iraq War" It is done by the same guy. I watched that one last night.. and I get "Outfoxed" next week. When I made the order Outfoxed had not yet been released..so I told them to send it in two shipments. Unlike Michael Moore's movie, I must say this guy is a true documentary film maker. Not quite the humor/spin or excitement of Moore.. but very good I must say. So, I would also recommend "Uncovered" to any one who wants to learn the truth about the lies.. was very well done.

Here's a fact for ya! Most of the people that "claimed" they worked at FNC actually worked for Fox, not FNC!

Also those memos weren't true. Fox News issued a challenge on Joe Gibson's The Big Story that if other news outlets turned over their internal Memos, FNC would do the same, TO THE PUBLIC and let the Viewers decide who is Fair and Balanced.

I think this is a good idea and it will make all news networks accountable!Point one--prove that claim. As far as I know, the people who turned over the Moody memos worked for Fox News Channel, as well as the people who were interviewed openly for the film. This isn't a new story--it's been out for over a year.

And those memos were accurate--challenging the opposition to release their own documents doesn't change the facts on the ground about FNC's memos. And I'd be more than willing to bet that if the other cable news networks put their own memos out there, they'd reveal a conservative bias as well--not because those institutions are naturally biased, but because they're chasing Fox for ratings, and so tend to copy the frontrunner.

That's the thing about this whole discussion of whether the media is conservative or liberal--it's neither. The media is corporate, and is out to make a profit, and if appealing to a conservative audience makes more money than appealing to a liberal audience does, then the media companies will do it in a heartbeat. Fox News showed that a biased news network could succeed, and so the others have followed along. For a perfect example of life imitating art, watch the movie Network. It was made in the 70s, and could easily have been made today.

Point one--prove that claim. As far as I know, the people who turned over the Moody memos worked for Fox News Channel, as well as the people who were interviewed openly for the film. This isn't a new story--it's been out for over a year.

Its an Anti-Fox News Movie! How do we know that those memos where actually real? How come the producer of this movie actually dodged questions from a Fox News Reporter during a Conference about this movie? Does he have something to hide by doing so? Yes, he's afraid to tell the truth! So prove to me that its factual!

And those memos were accurate--challenging the opposition to release their own documents doesn't change the facts on the ground about FNC's memos. And I'd be more than willing to bet that if the other cable news networks put their own memos out there, they'd reveal a conservative bias as well--not because those institutions are naturally biased, but because they're chasing Fox for ratings, and so tend to copy the frontrunner.

How do we know that the memos were real? I think that the networks should take up Joe Gibson's challenge of revealing internal Memos! I think people will be surprised just who is fair and balanced. My money on FNC!
That's the thing about this whole discussion of whether the media is conservative or liberal--it's neither. The media is corporate, and is out to make a profit, and if appealing to a conservative audience makes more money than appealing to a liberal audience does, then the media companies will do it in a heartbeat. Fox News showed that a biased news network could succeed, and so the others have followed along. For a perfect example of life imitating art, watch the movie Network. It was made in the 70s, and could easily have been made today.

So should the other networks take up Joe Gibson's challenge or not?

PS: GET BACK ON THE BLOODY TOPIC OF CABLE NEWS RATINGS! NOT SOME MOVIE! That is a different topic!

We now return you back to the thread regarding the Cable News Ratings that show that from 7 PM to 11 PM Fox News Channel kicks the competitions ass!

To answer your question about the other news networks, sure, they ought to release their internal memos. I'll bet if they did, all it would prove is that CNN and MSNBC skew almost as far right as Fox does.

As to your other directive, well, bask in the glory of Fox's ratings win if you must, but remember two things--the networks still kick all of cable's ratings ass, and that in a study done by PIPA last year concerning people with factually incorrect opinions about news stories involving the war in Iraq and the lead up to it, more people got their incorrect assumptions from Fox News than from any other source.

We now return you back to the thread regarding the Cable News Ratings that show that from 7 PM to 11 PM Fox News Channel kicks the competitions ass!


Yeah, well - if you go to any bookstore you will note that fiction almost always tops non-fiction on the bestseller list :p

Yeah, well - if you go to any bookstore you will note that fiction almost always tops non-fiction on the bestseller list :p

Back to the topic though your right there Zeppistan and I won't argue!

Fox News though isn't Fiction! It broadcasts the news as fairly as humanly possible.

Fox News Dominates the Prime Time and it also dominated the ratings during Operation Iraqi Freedom and that is a fact too!

Fox News became number 1 with half the markets of CNN! Though Fox News has grown since then, it is still obviously Number 1!

Back to the topic though!

We are on topic.. you brought up Fox.. we're talking about Fox..

Stop trying to control the direction of the thread. You're also not a moderator. So, stop telling people what to do. That's my job :D

We are on topic.. you brought up Fox.. we're talking about Fox..

Stop trying to control the direction of the thread. You're also not a moderator. So, stop telling people what to do. That's my job :D

The topic is the ratings not Fox News!

The topic is the ratings not Fox News!

Fine.

They get higher ratings.

Buy 'em a cake or something.


What was the point of this thread then?

The point, Zepp, was that Formal Dances wanted to point out that Fox News wins the cable news ratings race and the implication is that that makes Fox News somehow superior to all the other news organizations. It's inconvenient for Formal Dances that we refuse to play along and point out that having the highest ratings doesn't necessarily mean that they're the most accurate or best news organizations, and so Formal Dances tries--fruitlessly--to get us to stay on the topic he(she? sorry, I don't know) has chosen.

The point, Zepp, was that Formal Dances wanted to point out that Fox News wins the cable news ratings race and the implication is that that makes Fox News somehow superior to all the other news organizations. It's inconvenient for Formal Dances that we refuse to play along and point out that having the highest ratings doesn't necessarily mean that they're the most accurate or best news organizations, and so Formal Dances tries--fruitlessly--to get us to stay on the topic he(she? sorry, I don't know) has chosen.

Never said it was superior Incertonia! Just stated that Fox News gets more ratings than any other news network. The people are the choosers here. The people like what they see on Fox News so they turn to Fox News. Just like the other people who watch CNN turn to CNN because they like what they see. More people though turn to Fox News because of the News Coverage and how its presented, Fair and Balanced with both sides represented.

Besides, Fox News became number 1 when they only had half the markets that CNN has. Fox News still doesn't have that marketing yet but just the mere fact that they are still number 1 among the Cable Networks, says something about Fox News!

Never said it was superior Incertonia! Just stated that Fox News gets more ratings than any other news network. The people are the choosers here. The people like what they see on Fox News so they turn to Fox News. Just like the other people who watch CNN turn to CNN because they like what they see. More people though turn to Fox News because of the News Coverage and how its presented, Fair and Balanced with both sides represented.

Besides, Fox News became number 1 when they only had half the markets that CNN has. Fox News still doesn't have that marketing yet but just the mere fact that they are still number 1 among the Cable Networks, says something about Fox News!


Formal,

It is rather hypocritical for you to attempt to quash any other people's discussion on the merits or bias of Fox's reporting, and then make a defacto statement as to your belief that the ratings are due to the fact that their news presentation is "fair and balanced with both sides represented".

Most others here disagree with that assertion.

So, stick to what you asked others to stick to.

Fox is winning the ratings war. That's it. No further analysis allowed (according to your rules).


So did you bake them a chocolate cake? Or vanilla?


-Z-

Formal,

It is rather hypocritical for you to attempt to quash any other people's discussion on the merits or bias of Fox's reporting, and then make a defacto statement as to your belief that the ratings are due to the fact that their news presentation is "fair and balanced with both sides represented".

Most others here disagree with that assertion.

So, stick to what you asked others to stick to.

Fox is winning the ratings war. That's it. No further analysis allowed (according to your rules).


So did you bake them a chocolate cake? Or vanilla?


-Z-

Zep i've never deviated from the subject. The most others on here that disagree either 1) never watched it. 2) don't like the fact that a news network is betting the liberal news media, 3)don't like the analysis of the reporting.

Fox News is fair and balanced. More fair and balanced than CNN and MSNBC! The people watch it because it is what they want! The people have spoken. That is what I'm saying Zep. The people want Fox News. If they didn't, Fox News wouldn't be Number 1! That is a fact.

As for my rules, I enjoy other analysis but they have to be based on facts and not opinions. Im seeing to much opinions and not enough facts. And Outfoxed isn't what I would use for the facts.
As for cake, I don't cook so I won't answer it :D

Along a similar vein, I note that last week the Young And the Restless led the ratings for daytime TV.


Nobody else is permitted to debate the merits of this or other Soap Operas, however I wish to state as fact that this rating is due to the fact that Y&R presents the most balanced coverage of the imaginary worlds of lusty, petty, psychotic, shallow, and dishonest rich people from amongst the available options to the viewing public.


All the rest are so obviously contrived as to be silly.

:p

Along a similar vein, I note that last week the Young And the Restless led the ratings for daytime TV.


Nobody else is permitted to debate the merits of this or other Soap Operas, however I wish to state as fact that this rating is due to the fact that Y&R presents the most balanced coverage of the imaginary worlds of lusty, petty, psychotic, shallow, and dishonest rich people from amongst the available options to the viewing public.


All the rest are so obviously contrived as to be silly.

:p

what does this have to do what CABLE NEWS RATINGS? Nothing!

We now return to the topic of Cable News Ratings

I see that the concept of satire has been eliminated from the curriculum of the American education system.



Sad.


Here is my point, in (relatively) short sentances for those incapable of getting it:

1) This is a forum for debate.
2) You seem to want it to be a place to simply make statements. so you made one regarding the recent ratings of Fox News.
3) When people attempted to discuss issues relevant to the reasons why Fox News gets those ratings, you tried to shut them down.
4) You then stated your own opinion of the reasons why people watch Fox and presented your opinion as being the one true causative reason as a fact.
5) This is in direct contravention of the rules you attempted to inflict on the others when you stated that the "issue was the ratings, not Fox" and labelled their discussion of the way Fox presents it's news as irrelevant
6) This is also in direct contravention of the views of many people here who would have cheerfully debated it with you.
Which would have been a sensible thing to do given that
7) The point of these boards is to have debates
But
8) You aparently don't really WANT to debate the possible reasons.
because
9) you have an opinion on it already so there is no point.
So I,
10) A made an equally fatuous post regarding ratings, which seems to actually fall in line with your claim that the issue to be discussed is ratings, and also made my own stated reason for my statistic to be what it is while stating that no other opinions would be allowed.
That was
11) A satire of the way you expect to want to manage the discussion of that subject.



If you want to be able to make statements of fact and limit the ensuing discussion - start up a Blog. This is not the place for that activity.

If you cannot open your mind to actually debating points instead of simply making statements of facts, accepting as relevant views that are counter to your own, thinking about them, and then debating further - then you will not find happiness here.

And, more to the point, you will soon run out of people who even bother responding to your comments because clearly there is no point to do so. A closed mind makes for a poor debating partner.


-Z-