NationStates Jolt Archive

IF YOU LIKE MOORE, DON'T ANSWER THE POLL!!!

Why is everyone so 'patriotic' (It's a joke), and why do people hate Moore. Everyone says that Moore 'Hates-America'. What is the reason for thinking this? I honestly don't know. Is it because He voices His opinion? Is it becuase He is overweight? Is it because he wairs a baseball cap? Is it because he does not agree with Bush's way of running the government? I heard somthing once, a long time ago, about the Freedom of Speech. Is this Still around?

I think that Michael Moore is so couragous and patriotic, because he tries to make the world a better place by doing what he believes in. Is it realy that patriotic to want to have somone killed (Michael Moore) In your nation becuase you do not agree with his views? I don't go around killing conservatives/rebublicans, I respect them for voicing there opinion. Honest.

Any actuall explinations (not, 'he's a fat basterd' or anything like that) to why he 'hates America':confused: Please Resspond, I want to heare some Good answers. Thanks!

If you Like Moore, don't answer the poll.

Is anyone Actully even thinking of responding to this? I guess I stummped you all. Lol.

Its not what. Its how.

Trying to pass off a work of fiction and fantastically edited pieces pisses off some people. Its the fact he has an overbearing attitude about it; "He KNOWS the truth"...Fahrenheit 911 wasn't a documentary, it was a work of pure fiction with an added touch of propaganda to try and sway some voters. A well done piece, but not factual.

Personally, I do not think that Michael Moore 'lies', I think he may 'mess' (not change, just put them in different ways that look better) with statistics just like bush and almost every other politition. I do not think that Moore lies anymore then Bush does. Infact, way less. I do think that Bush has extensive relaionships with the Bin laden Family. I do not just think that from M. Moore's sources.

I think the reason I don't like Michael Moore is that he makes stuff up sometimes, but presents it as fact.
I really liked "Bowling for Columbine" when I saw it, and thought it made some really good points about the gun culture in the U.S. Later, however, I discovered that some of the stuff in it was, basically, false, stuff he put in to make his argument sound more convincing (e.g., the kids didn't go bowling the morning before they shot up their school). I think he's done the same with his latest film as well.
This is a real shame, because Moore is bringing up points that need addressing. If he lies while doing it, by presenting fiction, or unsubstantiated opinion, as fact, it greatly damages the validity of his case in the minds of people who take truth-telling seriously, as I do.

Reativeness:

I appreciate your open mindedness and your views. (Same with Vorringia).
Where did you learn that they didn't go bowling in the morning and are you sure that's a valid source to? I am not saying I won't believe it, I just do not think he would say that.

Reativeness:

I appreciate your open mindedness and your views. (Same with Vorringia).
Where did you learn that they didn't go bowling in the morning and are you sure that's a valid source to? I am not saying I won't believe it, I just do not think he would say that.

To be honest, I don't know where I first heard it, and no, I'm not sure it was a valid source. I've heard from a number of newspaper articles and forum posts that Michael Moore has a habit of 'straying from the truth' to make his point. You don't have to disagree with him on his core points to believe this, but you will respect him less if you do, as I do now.

he flat out lies, about his past, his intentions, his sources, his message and in his books/movies

Where do you here about such lies? and what does moore say about people saying he lies?

when people fact check what he says (like claiming that durring the vietnam war he saw 6 body bags come back to his school while he was there) and when they check his methods he uses to complie his statistics (like the gun deaths - he only counted people killed by police in America, but in none of the other nations he talked about) the lies are evident

and as far as I know he generaly ignores them, the prefact example being the movie michael moore hates America, if you've ever seen rodger and me look them up of the web and you'll see what I mean

Just wondering if anyone else was into discussing this topic.

First let me get rid of a common misconception here. The majority of people who argue against Moore's movies do not "hate" Moore. It is a loaded question when people ask why do you hate Moore because it digresses from the true reason people object to Moore or more accurately his material.

Michael Moore manipulates facts in order to guide you to his conclusions. He manipulates facts by editing video interviews, using quotes out of their original context and flatly removing parts of interviews and statistics that he does not want you to see. This is dishonest but stops short of lying because he never states his conclusion but lets you "find it for yourself". If you want accounts of his manipulations try the following websites:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

http://www.moorelies.com

Now before all the Michael Moore disciples come screaming. I do not say that Moore should be denied the right to produce his books and films as he sees fit provided it is not found by law to be libellous. What scares me is that there are people out there that take everything Moore says as undeniable fact without looking into the issues themselves and determining their own conclusions.
Again, before the Moore fans scream, this is also applicable to any source of information..CNN, Fox News, some old guy at the shop. Same deal.
The true danger is that people do not think for themselves anymore.

:D ;) :D ;) I'M SCREAMING! lol. AHAHAHAEAAACHHHHHAHHHH... :D ;) :D ;)

:D ;) :D ;) I'M SCREAMING! lol. AHAHAHAEAAACHHHHHAHHHH... :D ;) :D ;)

What an insightful comment. I provided sources so you could see the manipulations of Moore.
In response to your other question, Moore has set up a "war room" of lawyers to scan the media for anyone saying bad things about his films with the intent to sue the author if they are discovered.

http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

If he feels like "lying" on national TV, let him. You guys let Bush do it all the time. Why should this be any different?

http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

Very interesting!

If he feels like "lying" on national TV, let him. You guys let Bush do it all the time. Why should this be any different?

If you look at the question asked inthe poll it asks about Michael Moore and why people dislike him or his movies and books. I see you subscribe to the two wrongs make a right theory.

The OP also asked where his deceptions were and what Moore himself has done about the criticisms. This information was duly posted.

This discussion will be nought more than rant after Bush & Cheyney gets booted out of the White House in this year's election. Unless they manage to stage a legislative coup like they did in 2000.

This suggestion that the Presidency of the Incumbent be extended in case of a terror attack is an issue for concern though. It's called for a motive for Bush/Cheyney to come back for seconds after scheming and executing the 9/11 attacks.

JiangGuo

This discussion will be nought more than rant after Bush & Cheyney gets booted out of the White House in this year's election. Unless they manage to stage a legislative coup like they did in 2000.

This suggestion that the Presidency of the Incumbent be extended in case of a terror attack is an issue for concern though. It's called for a motive for Bush/Cheyney to come back for seconds after scheming and executing the 9/11 attacks.

JiangGuo

What does this have to do with anything discussed in this thread?

What an insightful comment. I provided sources so you could see the manipulations of Moore.
In response to your other question, Moore has set up a "war room" of lawyers to scan the media for anyone saying bad things about his films with the intent to sue the author if they are discovered.

Sorry, Just thought I would make a realy stupid and Un-funny joke. A bit a humar once a while Can't kill anyone.

I haven't seen Farenheit 9/11 yet, although I think it looks interesting. I'm no fan of Moore, especially after seeing all the fallacies in his bowling for columbine (see http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/).

However, I do believe I have to give him credit for stating his opinion so loudly. Maybe not accurately (in fact, probably not accurately), but he's getting out there and stating it. More power to him.

I haven't seen Farenheit 9/11 yet, although I think it looks interesting. I'm no fan of Moore, especially after seeing all the fallacies in his bowling for columbine (see http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/).

However, I do believe I have to give him credit for stating his opinion so loudly. Maybe not accurately (in fact, probably not accurately), but he's getting out there and stating it. More power to him.

:confused: Really? You give him props because when he lies he does it "Loudly"? It hardly seems to be a reason to admire someone.

Personally, I admire and respect people who can discuss the issues intelligently, will examine new information, and admit when they're wrong. Mr. Moore is not one of those people.

Peace.

:confused: Really? You give him props because when he lies he does it "Loudly"? It hardly seems to be a reason to admire someone.

Personally, I admire and respect people who can discuss the issues intelligently, will examine new information, and admit when they're wrong. Mr. Moore is not one of those people.

Peace.

Do you (or others) give Bush props becuase when He lies he does it Loudly? I also do not think that people should be admird for lieing. That is one of the reasons I do not 'admire' Bush (and Co.)

I think that Moore CAN reconsider his motives/beliefs and I think he thinks he is doing somthing important (witch i think he is). I think that Bush can too. however, There is so much money and power to Bush right now that He values that more then Looking at his values and possibly re-considering his stacnce on things.

??

Does anyone have any good topics to go to on the forum?

Moore may not speak the truth, but he has a right to free speech.....

he's a fat bastard

he's a fat bastard


Well ... he has the right to be.

On the whole "Moore Lies!" thing, can I ask what makes people believe the people who say that Mike Moore lies? Unless you're all doing massive amounts of background research into the claims that they make, what makes you trust them more than the fat man with the hat? Moore says one thing, some guy with a blog says another, and maybe posts a link or two as "proof". Is it just all boiling down to "I like the politics of X. Mike Moore criticises X. Therefore I'll believe anything that says Moore is a liar, because otherwise I might have to re-evaluate my opinions"? (And, of course, the corollary: "I hate the politics of X. Mike Moore criticises X. Therefore I'll believe anything he says, because it validates my opinions.")

I don't hold any sort of candle for Moore, personally. I thought TV Nation was funny way back when, but of late his stuff has got kind of preachy and tedious IMO, and I have frankly no idea whether some, all or none of his information is accurate, or whether his detractors are telling the truth. But it's interesting to see just how much the American right has got its collective knickers in a twist about him. It's like finally, after years of bleating about the Great Liberal Media Boogeyman, they looked under their bed one day and there he was...

Its not his opinion that bugs me but how he presents it. He makes movies off of america's worst tragedies and in doing so basicly profits off the dead. If he would get ALL the facts and put them in Chronological order not in the order that fits his agenda.

Mr. Moore is quite good at presenting his case and showing his sources.

Moore's Sources (http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/)

Seems like a lot of links to CNN, Fox News, and various other major media sources. I'll admit F 9/11 is propoganda, but it is factually very dead on accurate.

I think it's just fashionable to hate Michael Moore. Of course ... nobody believed Cassandra either .....

I think people don't like him because of the way he presents. Still, if you'd seen the first movie he made, Roger and Me, you'd know why people do take him seriously. He's drawing our attention to things that we wouldn't ordinarily see, but he tends to drive his point home with a sledge hammer, and some dubious editing.

I wouldn't say that he's not a patriot, though. It's the mistake a lot of conservatives make about the liberal folks, saying that we don't love our country. We DO, passionately, and we'd like to have a country which allows us to live within the ideal with which it was created, even if the road from there hasn't been perfect.

If he feels like "lying" on national TV, let him. You guys let Bush do it all the time. Why should this be any different?
Bush is a Christian therefor he would never ever lie. :p