NationStates Jolt Archive

To you that know something about the American "Civil War"* here's some pretty interesting stuff. Most Americans hold some pretty big myths about the "Civil War", some of which include the following:

1. Most Southerners supported slavery.
2. Southerners fought the "Civil War" to protect their slave property.
3. States never had a right to secede from the American Union.
4. Appomattox settled forever the issue of secession and State's Rights.
5. No patriotic American would ever support the breakup of the U.S.
6. Lincoln loved black people and fought for racial equality.

Well, I am going to attempt to show you how wrong these myths really are.

1. "Most Southerners supported slavery." Six per cent of Southern whites in 1860 owned slaves. That means that ninety four per cent did not. Among those was the immortal General Robert E. Lee. Other Southern leaders who did not own slaves were Generals Joseph Johnston, A.P. Hill, Fitzhugh Lee and J.E.B. Stuart. Why would 250,000 Confederate soldiers die fighting for the Confederacy if it was about slavery because 94% didn't have slaves. It just doesn't make sense.

2. "Southerners fought the "Civil War" to protect their slave property." How wrong can something be! The Confederacy (South) fought to protect themselves against a foreigner agrressor. The reason they broke away from the US was because Lincoln had become a dictator. He was trampling on states' rights, literally holding tens of thousands of political prisoners without any charges, and so on.

3. "States never had a right to secede from the American Union." Let's see here, if the US becomes ruled by a tyranical dictator, of course they have the right to secede! If any of the founding fathers had been around to know what Lincoln was doing, they would have wanted the South to secede. Even in the US Constitution (maybe Decleration of Independence) it says that if the government becomes tyranical then there should be rebellion.

4. "Appomattox settled forever the issue of secession and State's Rights." Sorry, but for now I don't know much about this, still reading up on it.

5. "No patriotic American would ever support the breakup of the U.S." See number 3.

6. "Lincoln loved black people and fought for racial equality." Bullshit. Here are some interesting quotes from this glorified Hitler.

"I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races. . . . I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race." - Abraham Lincoln, in an 1858 debate

How bout another one?

"Let the South go? Let the South go! Where then shall we get our revenues!" - Abraham Lincoln

As a man on another forum I'm on said "At least he was honest."

Also, the Emancipation Proclamation was issued in the war to gain support from nations like Britain. And, if Lincoln really was against slavery, then why didn't he outlaaw it in the Northern states? HE MADE SLAVERY ILLEGAL IN A LAND THAT HE HAD NO CONTROL OVER. Yeah, he was a real crusader against slavery. Also keep in mind that slavery wasn't illegal until AFTER he died.

I'd like to quote the same man from the same forum again.
Can you imagine the industrial revolution taking place with slaves? Slavery goes against the idea of a fluid labour force. Each factory would have to maintain a whole city of slaves. Think of how much of a pain that would be. Think of how many extra employees would be needed to watch over a few thousand slaves... and make sure the didn't escape or rebel. When the economy took a downturn, all these companies would be stuck caring for all their slaves. When a plant needed to get rid of its excess labour force, they would have to go through the hassle of selling them... a difficult task in a down economy. They would most likely just set them free.

Slave labour is not an efficient way to run a large business. Wage labour is by far a better option. Instead of having to go through the trouble of trying to keep your slaves from running away, you instead have low-paid workers begging for their jobs.

And as far as costs go... it cost just about the same amount of money to provide room and board fro a slave as it does to give a man enough money to maintain his survival.

How much would it cost to own a slave today?

The best comparison to slavery that I can think of in modern times is a prison. For comparison, it cost about $25,000 to house a prison inmate for a year. A person who works 40 hours a week at $5.25 makes about $10,920 a year.

If any of you get the chance, read The South Was Right! Here are some links about it:
http://www.dixienet.org/books/tswr.html
http://www.etherzone.com/2004/stang031204.shtml

I would like to conclude with the following link:
http://www.etherzone.com/2004/stang030504.shtml

Please read it all. It is related to the "Civil War" and has a twist.



*Why am I using quotations when saying Civil War? Because it's not a Civil War. It was a war fought between two different countries.

Here's another fact to add to your myths.

The Confederacy attacked first.

Now wait, BEFORE I read the rest, I will put my two cents on the table of what I think of these so called "facts"

Bear in mind, I am pro-Union

1. Most Southerners supported slavery.
-Actually, the rich ones did. The poor ones were the ones fighting for a rich man's property.
2. Southerners fought the "Civil War" to protect their slave property.
- Kinda hard being poor and having a slave now, is it?
3. States never had a right to secede from the American Union.
- This is too touchy for me, I'm on neither side of the argument
4. Appomattox settled forever the issue of secession and State's Rights.
- See above
5. No patriotic American would ever support the breakup of the U.S.
-Now c'mon...opinions vary.
6. Lincoln loved black people and fought for racial equality.
- He fought to keep the Union together is what he did. Does that immediatly make him a bad person?

Yeah, he was a real crusader against slavery. Also keep in mind that slavery wasn't illegal until AFTER he died.

Incorrect.

The Emancipation Proclimation was written in 1863.

Lincoln died in 1864.

The Emancipation Proclaimation made slavery illegal in all states.

woah there...

2. "Southerners fought the "Civil War" to protect their slave property." How wrong can something be! The Confederacy (South) fought to protect themselves against a foreigner agrressor. The reason they broke away from the US was because Lincoln had become a dictator. He was trampling on states' rights, literally holding tens of thousands of political prisoners without any charges, and so on.

Yes, we did invade the South in order to take back what was originally ours. HOWEVER, Lincoln was not a dictator.

The South finally broke off because Lincoln obviously was anti-slavery and they knew a law was to be passed soon banning slavery or something of the sort. Thus, they secede.

Besides, it's kinda hard say what you said because the South broke off upon Lincoln's Presidential....beginning

Oy vey, now they're bashing dead Republicans... here's another fact though:

Blacks did fight for the Confederates. This said I'm neutral...

Some misconceptions in your post...you make Lincoln appear to be like Stalin or Hitler an your wrong on a few occassions.

Your number three you say the South broke away because Lincoln was imprisoning tens of thousands of political prisoners? Not so, haebus corpus(sp?) wasnt suspended until the Civil War was in full swing. Lincoln isnt the only President to exercise such broad war powers in time of crisis either. Wilson had the Sedition Act, Roosevelt turned a cheek while the Nisei were rounded up on the West Coast and while Germans and Italians were rounded up on the East Coast.

One of the main reasons why the Southern States rebelled was because they felt that states rights supersecede the power of the Federal government. Lincoln believed otherwise. As for your revenue statement, also grossly wrong. The North had at that time 3/4ths of the countries population. There were more people in NY than in Virginia. Also the North was more industralized and churned out a larger profit than southern states during the war.

Your quote for 1858 was during a debate in which Licoln is attempting to become President. Back then you couldnt become President if you believed in equal rights. Also when the Emancipation Proclimation was declared most Northern States already had seperate laws forbiding slavery. Lincoln just took it a step further, remember just because the South had ceded form the Union doesnt mean the Federal Government recongized that action legally at all.

Another myth: Slaveowners routinely beat their slaves just for the hell of it.

Slaves, as far as I understand, were expensive. Beating and injuring them severely would be the same as setting fire to expensive furniture; a waste, in otherwords. I'm sure beatings occured when slaves disobeyed their master, or tried to run away.

Another myth: White people went to Africa and just started kidnapping Africans.

The first to take slaves from Africa were the Spanish. Before that, they used Native Americas, 'til they all died out from European diseases. Yes, in the latter years when the slave trade wasn't doing too well did white folks invade and kidnap. In the beginning, African chiefs along the coast would attack their enemies and capture their people. Then sell them to the slave traders in exchange for guns, jewels, etc.

Incorrect.

The Emancipation Proclimation was written in 1863.

Lincoln died in 1864.

The Emancipation Proclaimation made slavery illegal in all states.

No, it only made slavery illegal in a land that he had no control over. That's like me saying, all prisoners in China are freed. Slaves were still legal in norther states.

The war wasn't fought for slavery at all. The dispute was states rights, the south split off, and ATTACKED FIRST.


Sorry, but if YOU attack first, you're the aggressor.

Although in those stats you can easilly see the beginnings of moderen southern conservatism.
But its gotta be said that the only virtue that the north had over the south is that the north didnt have slavery and wanted to abolish it. I suppose you just have to decide if the ends justify the means.

Can you blame them for attacking Fort Sumter? The glorious CSA gave the Union pleniful time to leave, but they failed to do so, so had to deal with the consequences.

Even though we lost, we still kicked some major ass. Confederate losses: 250,000. Union losses: 360,000. Rest in peace my fallen comrades.

Hoooooooooooo boy...

that sounds like some definate flamebait material, weither or not you meant it to be

Can you blame them for attacking Fort Sumter?

Yep. :D

The poor ones were the ones fighting for a rich man's property.

the sad truth of almost every war in the history of civilization

I'm not familiar with MBCRCN's backround, so I can only guess to his motives for starting this thread, but the issue of the Civil War, states rights, the right to secede from the union, have been argued and debated ad nauseum by many very intelligent people. Having said that, i will trow in my 2 cents. the issue of seccesion being unconstutional is generally seen as being addressed by the preamble of the constitution "...in order to form a more perfect union..." Of course that does not rule out a revolution, wich is the overthrowing of the central government. Also, starting well before the founding of the United Staes, slavery was a very devisive issue and many of the founding fathers saw it as a problem that they could put off at the time of the writing of the constitution in the form of the "two thirds of a person" clause and other political compromises, but that eventually it would have to be solved once and for all in a very deliberate way. It is also generall considered the the main causes of the Civil War were socio-economic reasons, and that slavery was one of the many pieces of the puzzle. Long live the Union