NationStates Jolt Archive

Here is a link to more info..

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&ncid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20040628/ts_nm/iraq_dc

Anyone not see this coming?

Not long before the new government is toppled... They obviously don't have the funds to thwart the insurgents. Iraq is going to be a theocracy soon.

They lack the man-power to attemp any serious hostile democratic takeover.

I am sure the Iraqis already feel the change affecting them and the insurgency has just ended.

I am sure the Iraqis already feel the change affecting them and the insurgency has just ended.

Yeah. That.


Hey, hear that pigs are starting daily flights to the new ski resort, hell?

Im afraid to say it, but there may be a revolt. After all those stories about the lack of man power in the iraqi police, and the lack of decent equipment in the iraqi military, it could easily happen

I am sure the Iraqis already feel the change affecting them and the insurgency has just ended.

Yeah. That.


Hey, hear that pigs are starting daily flights to the new ski resort, hell?

don't you know sarcasim?

I am sure the Iraqis already feel the change affecting them and the insurgency has just ended.

Yeah. That.


Hey, hear that pigs are starting daily flights to the new ski resort, hell?

don't you know sarcasim?

No

I am sure the Iraqis already feel the change affecting them and the insurgency has just ended.

Yeah. That.


Hey, hear that pigs are starting daily flights to the new ski resort, hell?

don't you know sarcasim?

You spelled sarcasm wrong.

I am sure the Iraqis already feel the change affecting them and the insurgency has just ended.

Yeah. That.


Hey, hear that pigs are starting daily flights to the new ski resort, hell?

don't you know sarcasim?

You spelled sarcasm wrong.
its late, sorry

Now it's going to get really messy.. O.o

You spelled sarcasm wrong.
its late, sorry

Yes, it is.

Steph, why do you still have the Game Mod title? I thought you retired.

I really really hope this works out. :cry: But wait, which democratisation process in any place worked without blood? Taiwan, for one. Any place else?

Steph, why do you still have the Game Mod title? I thought you retired.

Oh, I guess you missed the memo.. no one wanted me to.. Max left my powers and I changed my mind and it turned out Max didn't want me to.. So you're stuck with me ;)

This is great. I say we withdraw most of our forces in the very near future or not to distant at least. I say we offer advice and answer questions and of course get free trade going

Not long before the new government is toppled... They obviously don't have the funds to thwart the insurgents. Iraq is going to be a theocracy soon.

Thats why our troops are going to hang around a bit longer. Besides they do got alot of oil and improving oil pumps. But 2 days ahead of the due date is that a first. :)

Steph, why do you still have the Game Mod title? I thought you retired.

Oh, I guess you missed the memo.. no one wanted me to.. Max left my powers and I changed my mind and it turned out Max didn't want me to.. So you're stuck with me ;)
I didn't want you to quit. I have a feeling you have let me slide with a little bit more than what the average bleeding heart liberal mod would have :lol:

Now it's going to get really messy.. O.o

Well of course its going to get messy the question is whos guts are going to be cleaned up? Ours or the enemies?

Now it's going to get really messy.. O.o

Well of course its going to get messy the question is whos guts are going to be cleaned up? Ours or the enemies?

I am going to assume ours.. but only time will tell. I certainly hope I'm wrong.

I have a feeling you have let me slide with a little bit more than what the average bleeding heart liberal mod would have :lol:

Maybe once or twice ;)

Not long before the new government is toppled... They obviously don't have the funds to thwart the insurgents. Iraq is going to be a theocracy soon.

Thats why our troops are going to hang around a bit longer. Besides they do got alot of oil and improving oil pumps. But 2 days ahead of the due date is that a first. :)

Bah! We British gave India its independance and soveriegnty a year in advance of the supposed withdrawal date!

Sovereignty is not removed by invasion and occupation, although the US Government obviously thinks it was. But then the US Government's knowledge of and regard for international law is about as wide-ranging as their care for truth, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Well I think it is a positive step for Iraq.

Well I think it is a positive step for Iraq.

If you call being led by unelected officials (ed: who) were and are members of the old Baathists party and among the former ruling elite a positive step ... yes ... however, what Iraqis want is a chance to elect people who really represent them, and I can't see that coming for a long, long time, no matter what the rhetoric politicians are spouting. People who get power handed to them on a plate rarely let go of it easily.

Well I think it is a positive step for Iraq.

If you call being led by unelected officials (ed: who) were and are members of the old Baathists party and among the former ruling elite a positive step ... yes ... however, what Iraqis want is a chance to elect people who really represent them, and I can't see that coming for a long, long time, no matter what the rhetoric politicians are spouting. People who get power handed to them on a plate rarely let go of it easily.

I can't argue with your logic Lutton, it's sound.

Well I think it is a positive step for Iraq.

If you call being led by unelected officials (ed: who) were and are members of the old Baathists party and among the former ruling elite a positive step ... yes ... however, what Iraqis want is a chance to elect people who really represent them, and I can't see that coming for a long, long time, no matter what the rhetoric politicians are spouting. People who get power handed to them on a plate rarely let go of it easily.
ahhh, where do I start?

1. I do not think having former Baathists included in the reconstruction of Iraq is a bad thing. Just because these people were members of Saddam's "party" doesn't mean anything. There really wasn't much of an opposition party in Iraq when Saddam was in control. After World War 2, Patton kept many members of the Nazi party on because of the same reason. Many times the former members of the Nazi party were the only ones qualified to hold the positions. I am sure it is the same after 30 something years of a Saddam-ruled Iraq.

2. This government will initially be shakey. Every newly created government is unstable at first. What will untimatly decide the outcome of a free Iraq is how strong the constitution is. If people respect the constitution and follow it, Iraq will become the model for democracy in the middle east.

Hate to rain on anyone's parade, but the U.S. is currently constructing 14 permanent military bases in Iraq. Despite the headlines, I somehow don't think Iraqi sovereignity is complete.

Well I think it is a positive step for Iraq.

If you call being led by unelected officials (ed: who) were and are members of the old Baathists party and among the former ruling elite a positive step ... yes ... however, what Iraqis want is a chance to elect people who really represent them, and I can't see that coming for a long, long time, no matter what the rhetoric politicians are spouting. People who get power handed to them on a plate rarely let go of it easily.
ahhh, where do I start?

1. I do not think having former Baathists included in the reconstruction of Iraq is a bad thing. Just because these people were members of Saddam's "party" doesn't mean anything. There really wasn't much of an opposition party in Iraq when Saddam was in control. After World War 2, Patton kept many members of the Nazi party on because of the same reason. Many times the former members of the Nazi party were the only ones qualified to hold the positions. I am sure it is the same after 30 something years of a Saddam-ruled Iraq.

2. This government will initially be shakey. Every newly created government is unstable at first. What will untimatly decide the outcome of a free Iraq is how strong the constitution is. If people respect the constitution and follow it, Iraq will become the model for democracy in the middle east.

Ok. Constitution? What constitution?
The government will be shaky because the coalition invasion has NOT improved the lives of ordinary Iraqis. Indeed, although Iraq was not a hotbed for terrorism before the invasion, it certainly is now - aided and abetted by former Saddam loyalists and huge numbers of terrorists flooding over the borders.
Model for democracy in the Middle East ... by and large the Middle Eastern nations don't want western-style democracy. I know this is a difficult thing for westerners to grasp, but it's true.

Well I think it is a positive step for Iraq.

If you call being led by unelected officials (ed: who) were and are members of the old Baathists party and among the former ruling elite a positive step ... yes ... however, what Iraqis want is a chance to elect people who really represent them, and I can't see that coming for a long, long time, no matter what the rhetoric politicians are spouting. People who get power handed to them on a plate rarely let go of it easily.

This is an interim government. In case you haven't noticed, Iraq is recovering from a war. How can you hold an election when the infrastructure for such elections is not in place? How can you hold elections when there are still threats of terrorist attacks?
It doesn't take a lot of thought to realise that holding elections now would make polling booths targets for attacks by insurgents.
The interim government has limited powers as stated in the article linked by the OP:


It is barred from making long-term policy decisions and will not have control over more than 160,000 foreign troops who will remain in Iraq. The government has the right to ask them to leave -- but has made clear it has no intention of doing so.

So, the interim government will take control while the coalition forces remain to provide security and to train Iraqi police and miltary with a view to them taking over the role of security.

Democratic elections are scheduled for January next year as was also outlined in this article.

One step at a time, these things take time.

Model for democracy in the Middle East ... by and large the Middle Eastern nations don't want western-style democracy. I know this is a difficult thing for westerners to grasp, but it's true.

Says who? The following website says otherwise...and it is written by Iraqis:

http://www.iraqthemodel.com

Model for democracy in the Middle East ... by and large the Middle Eastern nations don't want western-style democracy. I know this is a difficult thing for westerners to grasp, but it's true.

Says who? The following website says otherwise...and it is written by Iraqis:

http://www.iraqthemodel.com

Haha it's a blog, not exactly a reliable source of info.. :roll:

Model for democracy in the Middle East ... by and large the Middle Eastern nations don't want western-style democracy. I know this is a difficult thing for westerners to grasp, but it's true.

Says who? The following website says otherwise...and it is written by Iraqis:

http://www.iraqthemodel.com

Haha it's a blog, not exactly a reliable source of info.. :roll:

Yes, a blog written by 3 Iraqis from November 2003 until now. It outlines their views as the changes swept through Iraq. Perhaps you should read it before you dismiss it. As opposed to the source saying most in the Middle East do not want democracy?

Well I think it is a positive step for Iraq.

If you call being led by unelected officials (ed: who) were and are members of the old Baathists party and among the former ruling elite a positive step ... yes ... however, what Iraqis want is a chance to elect people who really represent them, and I can't see that coming for a long, long time, no matter what the rhetoric politicians are spouting. People who get power handed to them on a plate rarely let go of it easily.

This is an interim government. In case you haven't noticed, Iraq is recovering from a war. How can you hold an election when the infrastructure for such elections is not in place? How can you hold elections when there are still threats of terrorist attacks?
It doesn't take a lot of thought to realise that holding elections now would make polling booths targets for attacks by insurgents.
The interim government has limited powers as stated in the article linked by the OP:


It is barred from making long-term policy decisions and will not have control over more than 160,000 foreign troops who will remain in Iraq. The government has the right to ask them to leave -- but has made clear it has no intention of doing so.

So, the interim government will take control while the coalition forces remain to provide security and to train Iraqi police and miltary with a view to them taking over the role of security.

Democratic elections are scheduled for January next year as was also outlined in this article.

One step at a time, these things take time.

The new Prime Minister has already intimated that elections may not take place in January ...

The new Prime Minister has already intimated that elections may not take place in January ...

May being the operative word. It would depend on whether the security situation and infrastructure is ready to support a general election by January.