NationStates Jolt Archive

Should the populace be forced into the Holy Roman Catholic Church?

lets ban religion

Oh, bugger off! :twisted:

Is this a question on how to run your nation? If so it'd be best put in NationStates (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=1).

Should the populace be forced into the Holy Roman Catholic Church?

Ok, I should warn you - some will label you an extremist for that remark. I, for one, think that remark was extremely ignorant

Should the populace be forced into the Holy Roman Catholic Church?

I, for one, think that remark was extremely ignorant

How can an ethical question be ignorant?

Should the populace be forced into the Holy Roman Catholic Church?

Um...no. Why are you asking this anyway?

How can an ethical question be ignorant?

I am for freedom of religion and not being forced to practice any particular branch. By forcing people to all practice one thing that freedom is being destroyed

Should the populace be forced into the Holy Roman Catholic Church?

hell no. if that would ever happen, i wll start a protestant revolt, with me as the leader. it'll be like the thirty years war all over again, with the protestants as the winner! but this doesn't belong in the general forum, try nation states. it will only belong here in general if you TRULY believe that should happen.

IC

Yes

OOC

No

How can an ethical question be ignorant?

I am for freedom of religion and not being forced to practice any particular branch. By forcing people to all practice one thing that freedom is being destroyed

Your opinion here is entirely valid, and you have every right to express it, but that doesn't make the initial question an 'ignorant' one, does it?

No. To be honest, the whole child molestation thing has hurt the church. Now all Protestant think Catholic priests are gay pædophiles.

-----------------------------------------
"If the left is understood to include 'Bolshevism,' then I would flatly dissociate
myself from the left. Lenin was one of the greatest enemies of socialism."-Chomsky
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

Now all Protestant think Catholic priests are gay pædophiles.


I offer myself as a counter-example to your claim as:
1.) I am a Protestant.
2.) I don't think there is a noticeably higher percentage of gay paedophiles in the Catholic clergy than in any other profession.

Should the populace be forced into the Holy Roman Catholic Church?

hell no. if that would ever happen, i wll start a protestant revolt, with me as the leader. it'll be like the thirty years war all over again, with the protestants as the winner! but this doesn't belong in the general forum, try nation states. it will only belong here in general if you TRULY believe that should happen.

if that ever happened i would form my own third party fighting group and take down both sides through guerilla tactics and teach them not be such arrogant asses

I am a Protestant.

You are? I never would have guessed. I thought most anarchists were atheist.

-----------------------------------------
"If the left is understood to include 'Bolshevism,' then I would flatly dissociate
myself from the left. Lenin was one of the greatest enemies of socialism."-Chomsky
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

Now all Protestant think Catholic priests are gay pædophiles.


I offer myself as a counter-example to your claim as:
1.) I am a Protestant.
2.) I don't think there is a noticeably higher percentage of gay paedophiles in the Catholic clergy than in any other profession.You don't? I don't think it makes the church an inherantly evil institution, but I think that possibly there are, for a number of reasons.

a) Position of trust gives them access to children and makes it easier for them to abuse and keep it quiet

b) Seen as a way of getting round the rules on priests having sex.

c) Knowledge that they're being covered by an institution that seems dedicated to hushing up and protecting paedophile priests (this isn't bitterness, its just that I've heard of cases where the church does nothing to either punish or prevent instances that are known abouut)

I am a Protestant.

You are? I never would have guessed. I thought most anarchists were atheist.


Well, protestantism was a reaction to the hierarchy of the Catholic church wasn't it? (this could be wrong)

I am a Protestant.

You are? I never would have guessed. I thought most anarchists were atheist.

Growing up and living in Northern Ireland one is born into a culture/religion whether one likes it or not. One cannot escape that in the culture here. The fact that I may not believe in a traditional interventionist Christian God does not stop me being marked down as a Protestant for political reasons.

I follow Kierkegaard in his claim that the only correct religious position is "an absolute relation between the individual and the absolute": ie. a spiritual/religious outlook which does not depend on mediation through the apparatus of the church or priest or Pope. My definition of what the 'absolute' actually is may fall outside the traditional religious definition, but still the emphasis on the unmediated absolute relation is distinctly Protestant one, occuring within Roman Catholicism in the case of various mystics or saints.

In other words, I am an atheist/agnostic, but am a distinctly Protestant one.

Now all Protestant think Catholic priests are gay pædophiles.


I offer myself as a counter-example to your claim as:
1.) I am a Protestant.
2.) I don't think there is a noticeably higher percentage of gay paedophiles in the Catholic clergy than in any other profession.You don't? I don't think it makes the church an inherantly evil institution, but I think that possibly there are, for a number of reasons.

a) Position of trust gives them access to children and makes it easier for them to abuse and keep it quiet

b) Seen as a way of getting round the rules on priests having sex.

c) Knowledge that they're being covered by an institution that seems dedicated to hushing up and protecting paedophile priests (this isn't bitterness, its just that I've heard of cases where the church does nothing to either punish or prevent instances that are known abouut)

I'm generally in agreement with your points, I think I should have written:

"2.) I don't think there is a noticeably higher percentage of gay paedophiles in the Catholic clergy than in any other similar profession."

And so this would be comparing like with like: the Catholic clergy with... say, care workers at hostels, boarding masters at school, and so on.

Well in the matter of making everyone join the Roman Catholic Church, I don't think it's a good idea. Although i am a Christian and i am religious I am not Catholic. If you have read the bible you would know having a one world Religion is definitely not a good thing.

Now all Protestant think Catholic priests are gay pædophiles.


I offer myself as a counter-example to your claim as:
1.) I am a Protestant.
2.) I don't think there is a noticeably higher percentage of gay paedophiles in the Catholic clergy than in any other profession.You don't? I don't think it makes the church an inherantly evil institution, but I think that possibly there are, for a number of reasons.

a) Position of trust gives them access to children and makes it easier for them to abuse and keep it quiet

b) Seen as a way of getting round the rules on priests having sex.

c) Knowledge that they're being covered by an institution that seems dedicated to hushing up and protecting paedophile priests (this isn't bitterness, its just that I've heard of cases where the church does nothing to either punish or prevent instances that are known abouut)

I'm generally in agreement with your points, I think I should have written:

"2.) I don't think there is a noticeably higher percentage of gay paedophiles in the Catholic clergy than in any other similar profession."

And so this would be comparing like with like: the Catholic clergy with... say, care workers at hostels, boarding masters at school, and so on.Right, yes, I agree.

Isn't it also the case that the largest amount of child abuse actually comes from within the family?

Forcing people to join the Roman Catholic Church sort of misses the point of Christianity, which is that each person can have a personal relationship with God, so that He is Boss and Friend and Father to them. Enforcing membership of a religious organization like the RC's does not achieve this, and will in many cases discourage it, though for some, enforcing the structures of one form of Christianity would lead them to true faith in Christ.
An example of this would be the South in th U.S., before the Civil War. The slaves were taught Christianity, supposedly to keep them docile, but they went and developed a thriving, passionate style of Christianity, surpassing most (maybe all) of their owners in genuine trust in Jesus. Out of a mixed, and mostly evil, intent came good.
My final answer is that membership of a belief system CAN never be enforced, and this includes belief in relativism, democracy, and human rights as much as formal religions. However, each society has to enforce it's laws to function; how a society decides which laws to enforce is for another thread.

My final answer is that membership of a belief system CAN never be enforced, and this includes belief in relativism, democracy, and human rights as much as formal religions.

However, is it not also true that the belief that "membership of a belief system can never be enforced" also cannot, itself, be enforced?

My final answer is that membership of a belief system CAN never be enforced, and this includes belief in relativism, democracy, and human rights as much as formal religions.

However, is it not also true that the belief that "membership of a belief system can never be enforced" also cannot, itself, be enforced?

Yep, you're absolutely right. Maybe people can be forced to believe things, but I think we all have the choice.

lol

no wonder people put out flamebait

it catches so very many fish

Should the populace be forced into the Holy Roman Catholic Church?

Should people be forced to eat their own feces?

Now all Protestant think Catholic priests are gay pædophiles.


I offer myself as a counter-example to your claim as:
1.) I am a Protestant.
2.) I don't think there is a noticeably higher percentage of gay paedophiles in the Catholic clergy than in any other profession.You don't? I don't think it makes the church an inherantly evil institution, but I think that possibly there are, for a number of reasons.

a) Position of trust gives them access to children and makes it easier for them to abuse and keep it quiet

b) Seen as a way of getting round the rules on priests having sex.

c) Knowledge that they're being covered by an institution that seems dedicated to hushing up and protecting paedophile priests (this isn't bitterness, its just that I've heard of cases where the church does nothing to either punish or prevent instances that are known abouut)

Cardinal Law should be spending the rest of his life in prison for accessory before and after the fact of numerous cases of child rape.

Should the populace be forced into the Holy Roman Catholic Church?

you are just one of the many people that put roman catholics to shame

lol

no wonder people put out flamebait

it catches so very many fish

I don't think the original post was particularly successful as a troll: yes, it got responses, but none (or few) of the idiotic or outraged kind, instead the good people here have transformed the thread into a reasoned exchange of comments and opinions.

:shock: All people must decide what they belive in, More people have been killed in the name of god than for any othe cause. U decide?

no one should be forced into a religion. they should be allowed to choose what they believe. Callisdrun's population certainly would not be happy to be forced to be catholic, as about 65% of them are pagan.

Should the populace be forced into the Holy Roman Catholic Church?

Why would you even ask that?

its like asking this

"Should we force eveyone to be a satanist?"

or

Why don't we just outlaw freedom?

Are you so insecure in your faith that to validate it you want everyone to believe it too?

Are you so insecure in your faith that to validate it you want everyone to believe it too?

I agree with this statement, as it's my opinion that one cannot truly believe anything except what one freely CHOOSES to believe.

Growing up and living in Northern Ireland one is born into a culture/religion whether one likes it or not. One cannot escape that in the culture here. The fact that I may not believe in a traditional interventionist Christian God does not stop me being marked down as a Protestant for political reasons.

I follow Kierkegaard in his claim that the only correct religious position is "an absolute relation between the individual and the absolute": ie. a spiritual/religious outlook which does not depend on mediation through the apparatus of the church or priest or Pope. My definition of what the 'absolute' actually is may fall outside the traditional religious definition, but still the emphasis on the unmediated absolute relation is distinctly Protestant one, occuring within Roman Catholicism in the case of various mystics or saints.

In other words, I am an atheist/agnostic, but am a distinctly Protestant one.

Very nice reasoning. Labels are important.

Should the populace be forced into the Holy Roman Catholic Church?

the Holy Roman Catholic Church doesn't want anyone forced into their church

so I wonder what they would do if it happened

its not like you can give them back or anything

2.) I don't think there is a noticeably higher percentage of gay paedophiles in the Catholic clergy than in any other profession.

Actually, there is a MUCH higher percentage of homosexual pedophiles within the community of Catholic priests than within the population at large. The percentage of pedophiles (gay and straight) is alsmost identical for both groups. However, in the larger population heterosexual pedophiles FAR outnumber homosexeal ones. In the sub-population, homosexual pedophiles outnumber heterosexual ones. This is certainly a good reason to question the institution.

:shock: All people must decide what they belive in, More people have been killed in the name of god than for any othe cause. U decide?

Is this still true? I would probably accept its truth up to about 1935, but the Shoah (Jewish name for the Holocaust), Stalin's purges, the deaths that Mao was responsible for, these all add up to quite a large number of deaths, and Stalin and Mao can be lumped together as 'socialist', as technically can Hitler ('Nazi' is the German abbreviation for 'National Socialist'). There's Pol Pot, he was Communist. Saddam and his Ba'ath party were socialist as well. And yes, I know there are differences between socialism and communism, but there are also differences between the religions, and religions get lumped together in questions like these

I probably shouldn't mention abortion deaths, but there you are.

And you're right, all people must decide what they believe in.