NationStates Jolt Archive

I just saw a documentary on the torture meted out to prisoners in Iraq under the name of "interrogation".I mean,it's OK if they were confirmed terrorists,but most of them were petty pickpockets!Isn't that a despicable act by the US and UK officials?

Yeah, I bet you saw this on Democarcynow.com, didnt you?
There is most likely tourture, but not as much as supposedly is going on. I doubt anybody would waste time and valuable acid on pickpockets without reason.

Yeah, I bet you saw this on Democarcynow.com, didnt you?
There is most likely tourture, but not as much as supposedly is going on. I doubt anybody would waste time and valuable acid on pickpockets without reason.

Boredom?

How could you be bored?
Thers a car exploding every few seconds :P

Yeah, I bet you saw this on Democarcynow.com, didnt you?
There is most likely tourture, but not as much as supposedly is going on. I doubt anybody would waste time and valuable acid on pickpockets without reason.

Boredom?

Sadism?

How could you be bored?
Thers a car exploding every few seconds :P

Try "days", busho. And then ask yourself... does torturing prisoners prevent that or encourage it?

Yeah, I bet you saw this on Democarcynow.com, didnt you?
There is most likely tourture, but not as much as supposedly is going on. I doubt anybody would waste time and valuable acid on pickpockets without reason.

Boredom?

Sadism?

How could you be bored?
Thers a car exploding every few seconds :P

Try "days", busho. And then ask yourself... does torturing prisoners prevent that or encourage it?

dont say that its so widespread...I mean there was 1 prision and 10 soldiers or whatever...that isnt widespread.

but real interogation...by pros... on ppl who have info...go ahead.

Actually if you would actually research you can find MANY MANY examples of HORRIFIC torture that is widespread and wasn't limited to just Iraq but also Afghanistan. There have been DEATHS from this. And just because there were a handful of people implicated so far doesn't mean that their aren't many more. They had to have a few scapegoats. THats the way all organizations work when caught in a scandal.

Our military personell are far from being angels. They don't just fvck over people of other nations, there are many many examples of military men RAPING the women of our own military. Is that patriotic or what? They obviously got in the military to fight for the betterment of America huh?

dont say that its so widespread...I mean there was 1 prision and 10 soldiers or whatever...that isnt widespread.

but real interogation...by pros... on ppl who have info...go ahead.

There were something like 10 WHO WERE DUMB ENOUGH TO PASS AROUND PHOTOS.

dont say that its so widespread...I mean there was 1 prision and 10 soldiers or whatever...that isnt widespread.

but real interogation...by pros... on ppl who have info...go ahead.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040524fa_fact

The Abu Ghraib incident was most certainly NOT the only incidence of torture used by this administration and it was also NOT just the actions of 10 soldiers, although that's what the Bush Administration would like you to believe.

As for your "real interogation...by pros...on ppl who have info" statement, I assume you have no problem with terrorisim, then. After all, it is simply an outgrowth of the same "by any means necessary" mindset that countenances torture to extract information. Bottom line is, once the "good guys" start employing methods like torture and other strategies endorsed by the "bad guys", there are no good guys anymore, just different groups of thugs.

More the point, I think, is that the United States signed on to and agreed to follow the Geneva conventions and it consistently fails to meet the standards it sets out to follow. If you're going to torture prisoners, regardless of their military or civilian status, then go ahead and do it, but don't sign the Geneva convention, don't say you don't torture prisoners and civilians, and don't fight wars to end brutal dictatorships if your occupation is going to be just as bad.

.I mean,it's OK if they were confirmed terrorists,but most of them were petty pickpockets!

What planet are you on? Torture is never ok! Even when it is used on Terrorists.

Torture is a tactic of war. I support it when necessary, and when at war, it is ALWAYS necessary. War is not pretty. I don't understand how this fact has escaped so many people.

It doesn't matter whether the US employs torture directly. If circumstances will not allow that, the US will send the prisoner to another country that could give two squirts about a detained man's rights, like Saudi Arabia (we've sent prisoners to the Saudis, BTW). Naturally, in this case we didn't need to do that: we simply changed the law with regard to 'terrorists.' And how can we get away with that? Well, someone here just said that torture is OK if they're terrorists. That reflects the sentiments of most Americans, but what if they weren't terrorists? Would you know the difference? Do you actually expect this government to tell you the truth?

What is particularly stunning to me is the condemnation of torture from those who SUPPORTED the war on Iraq. They asked for a war and they got it, but now they're unhappy because of how it is being fought?! Americans are so naive. We were all so surprised that the torture was committed by corporate mercs. Duh...corporations are the reason the US goes to war in the first place. I'm glad they're actually getting their hands dirty, for once.

edit: double post

Torture is a tactic of war. I support it when necessary, and when at war, it is ALWAYS necessary. War is not pretty. I don't understand how this fact has escaped so many people.


So you agree that Saddam was OK when torturing his own people. After all, he was conducting an internal war. He also would have been justified in torturing American soldiers captured during the wars.

Great. So Saddam Hussein wasn't a criminal then.

I'll admit, it went to far due to the fact that most of these men weren't insurgents. But placing the blame on the MPs is completely unfair. MPs are not trained in interrogation (usually.) Interrogation is handled by such agencies as Army CID, NCIS, FBI, CIA, DIA, NSA....and so on and so forth. But this wasn't torture. Torture is things that cause permament physical and/or psychological trauma. Stripping a prisoner naked isn't torture, neither is surrounding them with Dogs that are well under the control of their handlers. Once again the media has COMPLETELY blown things out of proportion. They spend so long talking about "these atrosities being commited by coalition troops" but they only spent a few days on heroes like Sgt. Pat Tillman, or the slaughtered Security workers. One of my friends, her uncle was recently killed in Iraq because of these terrorist animals. No, torture is justified if it will save lives of the innocent, if it will stop another massacre or another damned beheading of Free-World citizens.

Torture is a tactic of war. I support it when necessary, and when at war, it is ALWAYS necessary. War is not pretty. I don't understand how this fact has escaped so many people.


So you agree that Saddam was OK when torturing his own people. After all, he was conducting an internal war. He also would have been justified in torturing American soldiers captured during the wars.

Great. So Saddam Hussein wasn't a criminal then.

This is a facile argument.

I said that torture was a tactic of war - one of MANY tactics of war. I never said that it only occurred at times of war. I don't know what you mean by 'internal war'. Iraq wasn't having a civil war at the time. Hussein was merely killing his own people with tacit US support.

Incidentally, since you brought it up, it is interesting to note that when Saddam's soldiers tortured Iraqi civilians, we in the US blamed Saddam. However, when our mercenaries tortured Iraqi civilians, we did not blame Bush or Rumsfeld. I wasn't trying to talk about torture; merely to point out that a complaint against torture in times of war is a complaint about the war itself. To condemn torture and to approve of war is ridiculous. Only fools believe in just wars that are fought with honor and dignity. Those no longer exist.

.I mean,it's OK if they were confirmed terrorists,but most of them were petty pickpockets!

What planet are you on? Torture is never ok! Even when it is used on Terrorists.

I agree,torture is inhuman,i was just tellin u that terrorists are trained in a way that they can resist the interrogation.

I'll admit, it went to far due to the fact that most of these men weren't insurgents. But placing the blame on the MPs is completely unfair. MPs are not trained in interrogation (usually.) Interrogation is handled by such agencies as Army CID, NCIS, FBI, CIA, DIA, NSA....and so on and so forth. But this wasn't torture. Torture is things that cause permament physical and/or psychological trauma. Stripping a prisoner naked isn't torture, neither is surrounding them with Dogs that are well under the control of their handlers. Once again the media has COMPLETELY blown things out of proportion. No, torture is justified if it will save lives of the innocent, if it will stop another massacre or another damned beheading of Free-World citizens.

The Geneva convention strictly prohibits outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment, no if being stripped naked and forced into sex acts doesn't fit that bill i dont know what does. Stripping a prisoner naked in front of men and women soldiers is incredibly humiliating and could definately constitute torture. As for your rubbish about the dogs, well then you could say that it is okay the threaten someone with an unloaded gun or a blunt knife, both these would be equally terrifying if you did not know they were dangerous, i doubt your US representitives in iraq took the time to assure the prisoner that the dogs were harmless.
I do agree that putting all the blame on the MP is unfair, they were given orders to 'soften' up the targets. To put it bluntly your President represent s a country that has signed up to the Geneva conventions and so is responsible for respecting and enforcing those conventions. Bush and his administration have not done so, The orders for these brutal 'interrogations' came from up the line of command and this eventually ends up with the Commander and Chief, he may not have personally ordered them but hew is responsible for them.

Torture is never justified...ever. Your government has been responsible for torturing people in Guatanemo for over two years and several high ranking military personel have admitted that most of the people there have given no useful information and that even the information that was helpful (from less than three dozen suspects out of 585) did not help prevent ANY attacks on american interests, just gave confirmation to what they already knew.