NationStates Jolt Archive

Or heroes, if you want to name more than one. But no more than 20-30. They can be statesmen, soldiers, philanthropists, scientists, whatever. Mine would be (in no particular order):

Douglas MacArthur, George Patton, Henri Guisan, Augusto Pinochet, Ron Paul, George Wallace, Chiang Kai-shek, Syngman Rhee, Joe McCarthy, Martin Dies, Booker T. Washington, Mother Teresa, Alvin York, Francisco Franco, Draza Mihailovich, Robert Welch, Larry McDonald, Michael New, Delmar Dennis, Dan Smoot, Ezra Taft Benson, Henry Cabot Lodge, Sr.



NOTE: No flaming allowed! And no "You're wrong, blah blah," I'd prefer
"I disagree" instead. No one likes to have their ideas slammed.

Audie Murphy?

Sgt York?

Me.

I refuse to answer that. Its bound to be biased.

Douglas MacArthur was a good guy, but had some serious flaws.

http://www.geog.ucsb.edu/~jeff/earthgifs/world.gif

Winston Churchill

Mikhael Gorbachev

Aquaman. Nobody appreciates Aquaman. :(

Fausto Coppi and Eddie Merckx.

I appreciate Aquaman...it's just that, I meant real life heroes. Oh yeah, don't be afraid to post your opinion, even if it's biased.

I appreciate Aquaman...it's just that, I meant real life heroes. Oh yeah, don't be afraid to post your opinion, even if it's biased.

I'm not. :wink:

Aquaman. Nobody appreciates Aquaman. :(

Thats becuase all he did was talk to the fish.

Aquaman. Nobody appreciates Aquaman. :(

Lunatic Goofballs gets my vote!

Mother Theresa a distant second.

Come on, people. No offense, but I was expecting serious answers.

Come on, people. No offense, but I was expecting serious answers.

I appreciate Aquaman...it's just that, I meant real life heroes. Oh yeah, don't be afraid to post your opinion, even if it's biased.

Real life heroes...

...firefighters... paramedics... pretty much anyone who had stayed(or would have stayed) in the World Trade Center trying to save people after they knew it could collapse at any time.

The little boy who jumped into the swimming pool to save his friend, even though he couldn't swim. Anybody know his name?

Come on, people. No offense, but I was expecting serious answers.

You'll be happy to know that my answer was quite serious.

Aquaman. Nobody appreciates Aquaman. :(

Lunatic Goofballs gets my vote!

Mother Theresa a distant second.

I don't save lives. I just make them brighter. :D

Come on, people. No offense, but I was expecting serious answers.

You'll be happy to know that my answer was quite serious.

All right.

Oh yeah, This surely isnt flamebait :roll:

Augusto Pinochet...Chiang Kai-shek...Francisco Franco.

some fascists and history's 4th worst mass murderer. well fuck you too.

buenaventura durruti

I appreciate Aquaman...it's just that, I meant real life heroes. Oh yeah, don't be afraid to post your opinion, even if it's biased.

Aquaman is a lesbian. Aqua teen hunger force its where izzat G!

Ok, mine are, in no real order
Winston Churchill, David Beatty, John Jellicoe, Barnes Wallace, Stephen Hawking, Einstein. That's about it, really. (if it wasn't limited to the 1900s, there'd be more.)

Come on, people. No offense, but I was expecting serious answers.I was serious, Fausto Coppi and Eddie Merkx. Coppi is the spirit of Italian cycling. He was a champion before WWII, served during the war, was captured in North Africa and imprisoned in an Allied POW camp. After the war he captured the imagination and hope of the Italian people and once again became a champion. He probably was more responsible for the rebuilding of Italy after the war than any other person, they litterally repaved the roads to watch him race. Merckx was nicknamed "the cannibal" because of his intense desire to win every race he entered. He won 1/5 of every race he ever entered, no other rider past or present even comes close to that figure. He won the mountain, points and general classification in all three grand tours (Lance Armstong by comparison only wins the GC in one grand tour) and won every single day classic at one time or another. In the 1967 Tour De France, with a comfortable lead that would have given him the Yellow jersey in Paris just by riding conservatively, he attacked on the hardest climb of the most difficult stage and punished the rest of the peloton, finishing a full 8 minutes in front of the next best rider. He never played it safe and always gave his all. Those two embody what I think is heroic.

Free Soviets, I explicitly said no flaming. If you can't say anything nice, get off this thread! :x



P.S.Franco (that's who you were referring to, right?) was NOT a fascist.
He remained neutral during WWII rather than come to Hitler and
Mussolini's aid, he protected more Jews than anyone else in Europe
with the possible exception of the Vatican, he brought Spain from
anarchy to a prosperous nation and provided years of stability and
growth, he prevented a communist dictatorship, and he was a
capitalist, not a socialist like Hitler or Mussolini.

Free Soviets, I explicitly said no flaming. If you can't say anything nice, get off this thread! :x



P.S.Franco (that's who you were referring to, right?) was NOT a fascist.
He remained neutral during WWII rather than come to Hitler and
Mussolini's aid, he protected more Jews than anyone else in Europe
with the possible exception of the Vatican, he brought Spain from
anarchy to a prosperity and provided years of stability and
growth, he prevented a communist dictatorship, and he was a
capitalist, not a socialist like Hitler or Mussolini.

Eric Cantona.

Come on, people. No offense, but I was expecting serious answers.I was serious, Fausto Coppi and Eddie Merkx. Coppi is the spirit of Italian cycling. He was a champion before WWII, served during the war, was captured in North Africa and imprisoned in an Allied POW camp. After the war he captured the imagination and hope of the Italian people and once again became a champion. He probably was more responsible for the rebuilding of Italy after the war than any other person, they litterally repaved the roads to watch him race. Merckx was nicknamed "the cannibal" because of his intense desire to win every race he entered. He won 1/5 of every race he ever entered, no other rider past or present even comes close to that figure. He won the mountain, points and general classification in all three grand tours (Lance Armstong by comparison only wins the GC in one grand tour) and won every single day classic at one time or another. In the 1967 Tour De France, with a comfortable lead that would have given him the Yellow jersey in Paris just by riding conservatively, he attacked on the hardest climb of the most difficult stage and punished the rest of the peloton, finishing a full 8 minutes in front of the next best rider. He never played it safe and always gave his all. Those two embody what I think is heroic.

When I said 'be serious,' it wasn't you I was referring to.

Winston Churchill, no question.

Come on, people. No offense, but I was expecting serious answers.I was serious, Fausto Coppi and Eddie Merkx. Coppi is the spirit of Italian cycling. He was a champion before WWII, served during the war, was captured in North Africa and imprisoned in an Allied POW camp. After the war he captured the imagination and hope of the Italian people and once again became a champion. He probably was more responsible for the rebuilding of Italy after the war than any other person, they litterally repaved the roads to watch him race. Merckx was nicknamed "the cannibal" because of his intense desire to win every race he entered. He won 1/5 of every race he ever entered, no other rider past or present even comes close to that figure. He won the mountain, points and general classification in all three grand tours (Lance Armstong by comparison only wins the GC in one grand tour) and won every single day classic at one time or another. In the 1967 Tour De France, with a comfortable lead that would have given him the Yellow jersey in Paris just by riding conservatively, he attacked on the hardest climb of the most difficult stage and punished the rest of the peloton, finishing a full 8 minutes in front of the next best rider. He never played it safe and always gave his all. Those two embody what I think is heroic.

When I said 'be serious,' it wasn't you I was referring to.I really didn't think you were, I just couldn't resist touting the exploits of my heroes :wink: .

some fascists and history's 4th worst mass murderer. well f--- you too.


Flaming's bad, mmkay?

Free Soviets, I'd like to add that General Pinochet overthrew a corrupt, totalitarian government that was destroying the economy (over 1000% inflation!) with only limited violence (a few hundred people were killed during the fighting, but President Allende was not killed, he committed suicide), and that was after the country overwhelmingly demanded that the military intervene. Every living ex-president of Chile said that Pinochet saved the country. Pinochet then made Chile the most prosperous country in Latin America, drastically decreased the size of the government, wrote a constitution that the Chilean people overwhelmingly approved, and voluntarily stepped down from power just as he promised he would, in 1990.

Chiang, on the other hand, fought valiantly against the bloodiest murderer the world has ever known (Mao Tse-tung, who is literally responsible for over 40,000,000 deaths) and established a free country that became extremely prosperous. He also relinquished China's 'warlord' system and made honest efforts to modernize, Westernize, and reform his country.

some fascists and history's 4th worst mass murderer. well f--- you too.


Flaming's bad, mmkay?

yeah, sorry. but calling chiang kai-shek a hero is morally equivalent to calling stalin one (and yes, i know people do that too).

Chiang, on the other hand, fought valiantly against the bloodiest murderer the world has ever known (Mao Tse-tung, who is literally responsible for over 40,000,000 deaths) and established a free country that became extremely prosperous. He also relinquished China's 'warlord' system and made honest efforts to modernize, Westernize, and reform his country.

actually, stalin beat mao in the bodycount department. but chiang is only a short distance behind.

Well ones mans hero is anothers crusty senile Asshole.

Churchill.

Adolf Hitler and William Pierce.

some fascists and history's 4th worst mass murderer. well f--- you too.


Flaming's bad, mmkay?

yeah, sorry. but calling chiang kai-shek a hero is morally equivalent to calling stalin one (and yes, i know people do that too).

Dude, it's cool. Let's consider the hatchet buried.

Heros are fantasy. There are no real ones. Churchill was not nice. But to his credit, he was devastatingly witty. And since there no real ones, especially not poiticans, I'll settle for that.

Nietzsche, JS mill, Aquinas, Derrida, and Kant, in no particular order.

Dude, it's cool. Let's consider the hatchet buried.

done and done

Dude, it's cool. Let's consider the hatchet buried.

done and done


Cool. Why not take it one step further? How 'bout friends?

Heros are fantasy. There are no real ones. Churchill was not nice. But to his credit, he was devastatingly witty. And since there no real ones, especially not poiticans, I'll settle for that.Heros are not fantasies, they are people ,like you and me, who in exatrordinary situations and with extraordinary ability and will prevail.

" . . . Augusto Pinochet . . . George Wallace . . . Joe McCarthy . . . Francisco Franco" -- are you serious?

Really, I'm trying not to flame you, but Pinochet and Franco were brutal tyrants--if Pinochet were not so sick today, he'd be on trial or in prison for the many murders committed under his command. Franco collaborated with Hitler to turn Spain into a brutal dictatorship. Wallace fought strenuously to deny civil rights to people of color. And McCarthy ruined people's lives with his self-serving "anticommunist" crusade. If you're going to put those people on your list of heroes, you might as well add Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, "Papa Doc" Duvalier and Pol Pot.

How about Albert Einstein; Orville and Wilbur Wright; Martin Luther King, Jr.; Mahatma Gandhi; Jonas Salk; Alexander Fleming (discoverer of penicillin); Franklin Delano Roosevelt; Winston Churchill; Albert Schweitzer; Guiglielmo Marconi; James Watson, Francis Crick, Maurice Wilkin, and Rosalind Franklin (discoverers of the structure of DNA); John Steinbeck; Igor Stravinsky; Isaac Bashevis Singer; Eleanor Roosevelt; James Joyce; Edwin Hubble; Alan Turing; Earl Warren; Betty Friedan; Nelson Mandela; Marian Anderson; and Pablo Picasso?

" . . . Augusto Pinochet . . . George Wallace . . . Joe McCarthy . . . Francisco Franco" -- are you serious?

Really, I'm trying not to flame you, but Pinochet and Franco were brutal tyrants--if Pinochet were not so sick today, he'd be on trial or in prison for the many murders committed under his command. Franco collaborated with Hitler to turn Spain into a brutal dictatorship. Wallace fought strenuously to deny civil rights to people of color. And McCarthy ruined people's lives with his self-serving "anticommunist" crusade. If you're going to put those people on your list of heroes, you might as well add Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, "Papa Doc" Duvalier and Pol Pot.

How about Albert Einstein; Orville and Wilbur Wright; Martin Luther King, Jr.; Mahatma Gandhi; Jonas Salk; Alexander Fleming (discoverer of penicillin); Franklin Delano Roosevelt; Winston Churchill; Albert Schweitzer; Guiglielmo Marconi; James Watson, Francis Crick, Maurice Wilkin, and Rosalind Franklin (discoverers of the structure of DNA); John Steinbeck; Igor Stravinsky; Isaac Bashevis Singer; Eleanor Roosevelt; James Joyce; Edwin Hubble; Alan Turing; Earl Warren; Betty Friedan; Nelson Mandela; Marian Anderson; and Pablo Picasso?What about Baby Doc?

Dude, it's cool. Let's consider the hatchet buried.

done and done


Cool. Why not take it one step further? How 'bout friends?

sure, why not. though your hero list and my hero list would in many cases be people who actually took up arms against each other.

Heros are fantasy. There are no real ones. Churchill was not nice. But to his credit, he was devastatingly witty. And since there no real ones, especially not poiticans, I'll settle for that.Heros are not fantasies, they are people ,like you and me, who in exatrordinary situations and with extraordinary ability and will prevail.
Yeah but they dont even have swords. Your definition is a compromise. Iz self indulgent.

But some can be a hero. I will make the world a better place. First I need to be getting is a sword, and a bevy of bathing beauties. Anyone know where I can pick some up? Preferably in the same place?

" . . . Augusto Pinochet . . . George Wallace . . . Joe McCarthy . . . Francisco Franco" -- are you serious?

Really, I'm trying not to flame you, but Pinochet and Franco were brutal tyrants--if Pinochet were not so sick today, he'd be on trial or in prison for the many murders committed under his command. Franco collaborated with Hitler to turn Spain into a brutal dictatorship. Wallace fought strenuously to deny civil rights to people of color. And McCarthy ruined people's lives with his self-serving "anticommunist" crusade. If you're going to put those people on your list of heroes, you might as well add Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, "Papa Doc" Duvalier and Pol Pot.

How about Albert Einstein; Orville and Wilbur Wright; Martin Luther King, Jr.; Mahatma Gandhi; Jonas Salk; Alexander Fleming (discoverer of penicillin); Franklin Delano Roosevelt; Winston Churchill; Albert Schweitzer; Guiglielmo Marconi; James Watson, Francis Crick, Maurice Wilkin, and Rosalind Franklin (discoverers of the structure of DNA); John Steinbeck; Igor Stravinsky; Isaac Bashevis Singer; Eleanor Roosevelt; James Joyce; Edwin Hubble; Alan Turing; Earl Warren; Betty Friedan; Nelson Mandela; Marian Anderson; and Pablo Picasso?


See page 2 for Franco and Pinochet; Wallace, because he was 100% pro-American and stood up for states' rights (he wasn't really racist), and most or all of the people McCarthy investigated were either pro-communist, communist, or at least unloyal to America (and no offense, but people still have yet to name one person he ruined). I know these men had their faults, but the good things they did accomplish are heroic to me (and there is no actual proof Pinochet killed those 3,000+ missing people; I'm not saying he didn't, just that it hasn't been proven).

Your list of suggestions is obviously well thought out and I see some excellent choices. However, I disagree with some of them (see, for example, my thread 'Worst U.S. President Ever'). Martin Luther King, Jr., although he always spoke of 'non-violence,' his marches always ended up violent and lots of people (mostly blacks) got killed; many members of his SCLC were communists and national security risks (like Stanley Levison and Hunter Pitts O'Dell); he supported the Viet Cong, who were VERY violent; he was an adulterer (as Dr. Ralph Albernathy even admitted in his memoirs), he plagiarized his 'I Have a Dream' speech and his doctoral, he was involved in embezzlement, employing prostitution, and other crimes; etc. While his intentions may have been good, I felt inclined to dismiss him from the list for the above-mentioned reasons.

Please don't get me wrong, though, I'm not racist. Most of my friends are black or Asian and I have a brother who's half-black.

Nelson Mandela was a VERY brutal killer. His ANC (African National Congress) used to do a tactic called 'neck-lacing' to anti-communist blacks. The ANC thug would tie the person's hands with barbed wire, put a gasoline-soaked tire around their neck, make them drink gasoline, and then set them on fire and taunt them as they burned to death; the ANC also provoked many violent riots that got people of both colors killed, but mostly blacks. I'd recommend the book 'Politics by other Means' by Morgan Norval.

Gandhi was a good guy I'm sure, but honestly, has India really changed for the better since its independence? At least under Britain most people were fed, and the British did make many positive contributions (don't get me wrong, though, I'm not defending imperialism). Now, India is one of the world's poorest nations on earth.

Eleanor Roosevelt supported the U.N. (for info. on the U.N., see the books 'Rebels, Mercenaries, and Dividends: The Katanga Story,' 'Who Killed the Congo?' 'The Fearful Master, a Second Look at the United Nations,' 'Inside the United Nations,' 'Freedom on the Altar,' 'Global Gun Grab,' 'The United Nations Exposed,' and the article '46 Angry Men'), welfare (there's nothing wrong with supporting the poor- hence, my selection of Mother Teresa on the list- but welfare is not authorized by the constitution), etc. She also had some very radical associates.

Please don't see this as flaming your ideas, though. I respect them.

P.S. If I were to write a 'villains' list, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Duvalier ('Papa
Doc' and 'Baby Doc'), and others would be right on top.

Dude, it's cool. Let's consider the hatchet buried.

done and done


Cool. Why not take it one step further? How 'bout friends?

sure, why not. though your hero list and my hero list would in many cases be people who actually took up arms against each other.

Well, that's okay. I have plenty of friends with ideas that sharply contrast mine. Please list some of your heroes, I'm curious.

George Patton(military hero)
Reagan(diplomatic hero)
-Insert economic hero here-(economic hero)
Ike Eisenhower or mahatma Ghandi(general hero)

These are all interesting choices, people. It's nice to see different viewpoints.

Any other heroes?

Ghandi
MLK Jr.
FDR
General Rommel "Desert Fox" (because of the strategic moves he was capable of pulling, even though he fought for Germany)



. . . . and Master Chief, Stewie Griffen, Michael Moore, et alia.

George Patton(military hero)
Reagan(diplomatic hero)
-Insert economic hero here-(economic hero)
Ike Eisenhower or mahatma Ghandi(general hero)

Diplomatic?????!!!?!11

...

?????

Are you insane in the membrane?

Anybody who owns one of these:
http://www.remembering.org.uk/vc.jpg

P.S.Franco (that's who you were referring to, right?) was NOT a fascist.
He remained neutral during WWII rather than come to Hitler and
Mussolini's aid, he protected more Jews than anyone else in Europe
with the possible exception of the Vatican, he brought Spain from
anarchy to a prosperity and provided years of stability and
growth, he prevented a communist dictatorship, and he was a
capitalist, not a socialist like Hitler or Mussolini.

He wasn't a nazi, but he was a fascist. The basic premise of fascism is extreme nationalism and the belief that the state is greater than the individual. Economic policies aside, he was a fascist.

Anyway, several of my heroes:

Che Guevara
Mahatma Ghandi
Martin Luther King
Claus von Stauffenburg

I have many more, just a few there

I'd like to add a few more I thought of: Moise Tshombe, John T. Flynn, John Birch, Helen Keller, and Dietrich Bonhoeffer (did I spell that right?).

I'd like to add a few more I thought of: Moise Tshombe, John T. Flynn, John Birch, Helen Keller, Herbert Hoover (during World War I, not as President), and Dietrich Bonhoeffer (did I spell that right?).

I'd like to add a few more I thought of: Moise Tshombe, John T. Flynn, John Birch, Helen Keller, Herbert Hoover (during World War I, not as President), and Dietrich Bonhoeffer (did I spell that right?).




Oh yeah, I was asked why I didn't put Churchill on the list. During WWI, he wanted to let thousands of Belgians starve to death just to put blame on the Germans, and he denounced Hoover (for providing food and aid to the Belgians) as a son of a b****.

I would say I tie between Churchill and FDR. They stood up to Hitler, Mussilini, Pavelick, Hirohito and Antonescu and the rest of those nazi bullies.

he brought Spain from anarchy

How is that a good thing? If you actually knew something about anarchism, you'd know that it would be the greatest thing to happen in a long time.

I'd agree with Free Soviets and say Buenaventura Durruti.

-----------------------------------------
R j00 b45h|n9 m3j3 6r4mm4r, ph45c|57?
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

Anybody who owns one of these:
http://www.remembering.org.uk/vc.jpg
Or one of these
http://www.cmohs.org/images/medal4_efficient.jpg

Indiana Jones.

Indiana Jones.

On a very personal level, my great-grandpa, who fought and was injured in WWII(allied army private)and practically raised me, and great-great-uncle who died in the Phillipenes(?) during the war.
On a global level, FDR and Churchill. Especially FDR-Great Depression and WWII. 4 terms in office.

Generals and Presidents do NOT get my vote....they are very intelligent people...they have superior brains...but a hero is something else.

someone who is ready to die for his ideals...risking his life at the front...someone like Mandela, Tillman, Guevara...

I disagree. What about surgeons and doctors who routinely save peoples lives?

I think anyone who would do something that isn't in their best interests (not all doctors earn a lot, especially volunteers in the third world) to help others is a hero.

Generals and Presidents do NOT get my vote....they are very intelligent people...they have superior brains...but a hero is something else.

someone who is risking his life...someone like Mandela, Tillman, Guevara...
Agreed, I'd also throw in Gandhi and MLK jr. Those who fought a much bigger power for the greater good and risking, and sometimes losing, thier life because of it.

Wow. Too many to name. Just to throw in some Chinese figures:

Dr. Sun Yatsen
Chairman Mao Zedong
Wang Dan

etc...

Generals and Presidents do NOT get my vote....they are very intelligent people...they have superior brains...but a hero is something else.

someone who is risking his life...someone like Mandela, Tillman, Guevara...
Agreed, I'd also throw in Gandhi and MLK jr. Those who fought a much bigger power for the greater good and risking, and sometimes losing, thier life because of it.
True...they were not afraid to die...

WATSON, CREEK AND EINSTEIN

Wow. Too many to name. Just to throw in some Chinese figures:

Dr. Sun Yatsen
Chairman Mao Zedong
Wang Dan

etc...

Mao was a mass murderer and killed 40 millon of his own people. I can hardely caracterize him as a hero.

Jim Henson
Fred Rogers

;)

WATSON, CREEK AND EINSTEIN

Creek? Do you mean Francis Crick, one of the discoverers of the structure of DNA, or someone else entirely?

I hereby remove Helen Keller from my heroes list. Consider her removed.