NationStates Jolt Archive

Do you believe that torture to safeguard a nation is justifyable? Say, for Americans to torture information out of an Iraqi freedom fighter, or for a French Resistance group to torture a Nazi officer to recieve information?

Is torture justifyable on any conceivable moral scale?

Its only wrong if anyone finds out about it.

Simply put: torture absolutely sickens and frightens me. I don't really care what the crime is... torture is horrifying, and if a bad leader is in charge of something controlling the administration of torture, it's too easy to abuse. I don't support it.

A funny thing a saw while watching the show '24'. Americans stand by while South Koreans do the torture, so they cannot be held responsible. The Americans are the ones using the information anyway, though.

Not much different in real life.

My people suffered when the United States used 'Truth Syrum' on them. Fried their brains. Made them zombies. And yet those monsters go unpunished.

Simply put: torture absolutely sickens and frightens me. I don't really care what the crime is... torture is horrifying, and if a bad leader is in charge of something controlling the administration of torture, it's too easy to abuse. I don't support it.

But that's dependent on what your view of torture is. For example, you might find eating ham to be perfectly reasonable, whereas forcing it down a Muslim's throat could constitute torture. And of course you can conduct torture by kindness as well.

Simply put: torture absolutely sickens and frightens me. I don't really care what the crime is... torture is horrifying, and if a bad leader is in charge of something controlling the administration of torture, it's too easy to abuse. I don't support it.

But that's dependent on what your view of torture is. For example, you might find eating ham to be perfectly reasonable, whereas forcing it down a Muslim's throat could constitute torture. And of course you can conduct torture by kindness as well.

Forcing someone to eat anything should be illegal.

IVs and ensure could be used instead.

FOrcing a Christian to eat a person could be considered torture. Forcing a Jew to eat almonds could be torture. FOrcing me to eat peanut butter would be torture, not to mention probably fatal (I'm allergic).

Like I said, it's all dependent upon your point of view. As far as eating people, then if you're a Christian, eating a person would somehow be worse for you?

Simply put: torture absolutely sickens and frightens me. I don't really care what the crime is... torture is horrifying, and if a bad leader is in charge of something controlling the administration of torture, it's too easy to abuse. I don't support it.

But that's dependent on what your view of torture is. For example, you might find eating ham to be perfectly reasonable, whereas forcing it down a Muslim's throat could constitute torture. And of course you can conduct torture by kindness as well.

Yeah, I agree, most everything is dependant on view. I think I mean torture on the scale that governments, gangs, countries do. Physical and mental torture by means of cruelty in some form or another.

Like I said, it's all dependent upon your point of view. As far as eating people, then if you're a Christian, eating a person would somehow be worse for you?
How so?

Once a person is dead, their body is meat to be consumed.

In game, In Galdania, eating dead relatives in the cultural norm.

Yeah, I agree, most everything is dependant on view. I think I mean torture on the scale that governments, gangs, countries do. Physical and mental torture by means of cruelty in some form or another.

So then suppose that by some method, the victim was not aware of their being tortured. Is it still torture?

Simply put: torture absolutely sickens and frightens me. I don't really care what the crime is... torture is horrifying, and if a bad leader is in charge of something controlling the administration of torture, it's too easy to abuse. I don't support it.
Is torture as bad as just killing someone, in your opinion

I'm not sure where I stand on it...it's bad no doubt...but I don't know that it's never morally justified...

I support torture; however, as long as we know about it, and we don't find out by pictures being thrown about in tabloids.

Its only wrong if anyone finds out about it.

Tweeter & The Monkey Man...

"Every thing is legal, as long as you don't get caught"

Yeah, I agree, most everything is dependant on view. I think I mean torture on the scale that governments, gangs, countries do. Physical and mental torture by means of cruelty in some form or another.

So then suppose that by some method, the victim was not aware of their being tortured. Is it still torture?

I suppose not. But I can't think of an example of torture where the person is not aware of being tortured. I think torture implies most times that the person is aware of the pain.

Torture is usually conducted to gain something, and if the person isn't aware of being under any compromising situations, no gain is made. Most times. There are always exceptions.

Torture should ONLY and ONLY be used if lives are at stake. 1, 10, or 1000 lives. It doesn't matter. This man/woman knows something that can make the difference in someone's life. This person must talk.

When the Army officer fired his sidearm next to the Iraqi's head to find out information, and the liberal media had a field day crucfying him, that was necessary. The Abu Gahraib crap was immoral and repugnant

Torture should ONLY and ONLY be used if lives are at stake. 1, 10, or 1000 lives. It doesn't matter. This man/woman knows something that can make the difference in someone's life. This person must talk.

Even if it means bringing them to deaths door through shocking their genitals and cutting off their eye lids?

Simply put: torture absolutely sickens and frightens me. I don't really care what the crime is... torture is horrifying, and if a bad leader is in charge of something controlling the administration of torture, it's too easy to abuse. I don't support it.
Is torture as bad as just killing someone, in your opinion

I'm not sure where I stand on it...it's bad no doubt...but I don't know that it's never morally justified...

Depends on what kind of killing.
If its euthanasia or mercy-killing, that's another story. It depends.
If its murder or death penalty... well... it's about as bad as these. On a different scaled though.
Torture is a long-term thing for the person who suffers it- they'll be scarred by it their whole lives, however long it may be after the torture. Their lives will very possibly be broken.
Untimely death is permanent, robbing another of human life. Whereas the person doesn't know if they're dead, you never know the contributions the human could have made with their lives, how their lives could have impacted others.

My people suffered when the United States used 'Truth Syrum' on them. Fried their brains. Made them zombies. And yet those monsters go unpunished.

This is clearly made up. Truth SERUM, aka Sodium Pentothal, has no such side effects.

If you were to drink a glass of water with Sodium Pentothal, it would depress your central nervous system, slow your heart rate and lower your blood pressure. :!: All of these affects are the functions of any sedative. :!:

Sodium Pentothal is commonly used as an anesthetic during surgery. The patient is unconscious within 30 to 60 seconds after the drug administration to the veins. The duration of the anesthesia is very short; it only causes a few minutes of sedation.

Simply put: torture absolutely sickens and frightens me. I don't really care what the crime is... torture is horrifying, and if a bad leader is in charge of something controlling the administration of torture, it's too easy to abuse. I don't support it.
Is torture as bad as just killing someone, in your opinion

I'm not sure where I stand on it...it's bad no doubt...but I don't know that it's never morally justified...

Depends on what kind of killing.
If its euthanasia or mercy-killing, that's another story. It depends.
If its murder or death penalty... well... it's about as bad as these. On a different scaled though.
Torture is a long-term thing for the person who suffers it- they'll be scarred by it their whole lives, however long it may be after the torture. Their lives will very possibly be broken.
Untimely death is permanent, robbing another of human life. Whereas the person doesn't know if they're dead, you never know the contributions the human could have made with their lives, how their lives could have impacted others.
Well I was talking about killing terrorist prisoners...which I think would count as a combination of death penalty and murder...I don't think, however, that "what might they have done" works as an argument against killing them...since the answer is either "spend life in jail" or "be freed by the fellow terrorists and help bring down western civilization"

My people suffered when the United States used 'Truth Syrum' on them. Fried their brains. Made them zombies. And yet those monsters go unpunished.

This is clearly made up. Truth SERUM, aka Sodium Pentothal, has no such side effects.

If you were to drink a glass of water with Sodium Pentothal, it would depress your central nervous system, slow your heart rate and lower your blood pressure. :!: All of these affects are the functions of any sedative. :!:

Sodium Pentothal is commonly used as an anesthetic during surgery. The patient is unconscious within 30 to 60 seconds after the drug administration to the veins. The duration of the anesthesia is very short; it only causes a few minutes of sedation.

I know what happened.

Even without this, the Massacre was the greatest abuse of humnan rights that the United States ever engaged in.

Torture should ONLY and ONLY be used if lives are at stake. 1, 10, or 1000 lives. It doesn't matter. This man/woman knows something that can make the difference in someone's life. This person must talk.

Even if it means bringing them to deaths door through shocking their genitals and cutting off their eye lids?

Hey, that's like asking whether you want to bring Adolf Hitler to death's door in order to save the life of a poor British orphan.

Do you believe that torture to safeguard a nation is justifyable? Say, for Americans to torture information out of an Iraqi freedom fighter, or for a French Resistance group to torture a Nazi officer to recieve information?

Is torture justifyable on any conceivable moral scale?

Absolutely not. Torture should only be done for entertainment and sexual pleasure.

I personally take offense to torture as a political or military tool. :P

If you use utilitarian impact calculations, its really easy to see whether or not torture is justifyable, theres a few factors in the calculation in the tradeoff
if the subject is NOT tortured -
100% risk of injury onto said subject
and the magnitude comes at 2 levels, one is creation for precidence and the other is physical / emotional harm done, since the first (presicende) is already occuring as of Status Quo, the only impact is physical / emotional harm done on subject,
While the benefits would be an chance to save a # of people...lets say we give a 25% chance to believe waht the subject says is correct, then if 100 people are at risk , that saves 4 people as per risk calculation. that means relative heavy injury on one person saves 4.

This means that torture IS justified at levels in which the chance of saving people is high and or the possible number affected is high