NationStates Jolt Archive

I'd say it's a tie between FDR and Woodrow Wilson, hands down.

Woodrow Wilson, because he: created the Federal Reserve, introduced the income tax, prohibition (it was a good idea, but unconstitutional, because it violated the 10th Amendment by infringing upon states' rights), and the direct election of senators (instead of having them chosen by state legislatures, as the Founders intended), his top advisor (Edward Mandell House) was a Marxist, he favored 'democracy' (government of men) over republican government (government by law), he got us entangled in a foreign conflict that was none of our damn business (contrary to popular belief, he did NOT try to keep the U.S. neutral; read 'The Illusion of Victory,' for more details); tried to get us to join the League of Nations and thus sacrifice our sovereignty; and, most sickening of all, the way he treated Germany. Millions of Germans starved to death, the German economy was in shambles, etc. Were it not for him, there would have been no Nazi Germany or World War II.

Now for the real stinker, FDR. He: changed the U.S. from a constitutional republic based on limited government to a socialist 'democracy,' forever destroyed the dollar by taking us off the gold standard, introduced the unconstitutional Social Security, minimum wage, welfare, etc. (nowhere does the U.S. Constitution authorize the federal government to provide financially for its citizens), drastically prolonged the Great Depression, recognized the U.S.S.R. and provided it with substantial aid (which not only prevented its collapse, but helped it become a military super power), FORCED us into a war that was, again, none of our damn business (look, the Holocaust appals me, too, but the U.S. is NOT the world's globocop) by deliberately letting Pearl Harbor happen (many books provide a staggering amount of evidence to prove this), he greatly prolonged the war in Europe by permitting nothing less than 'absolute surrender' (and would not even support anti-Hitler Germans or Nazis who genuinely wanted to overthrow Hitler and negotiate for peace), betrayed the French at Teheran and the Poles and Chinese at Yalta, forever destroyed feelings of non-interventionism (the correct term, not 'isolationism'), thus setting the stage for Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf War, etc., he allowed innumerable communists and communist sympathizers into the government, he sent all Japanese-Americans to detention camps (which sounds like something the Nazis or Soviets would do), etc., etc...

Nixon. Hands down.

I'm not getting into it, you all should know all his atrocities. If I start going on it, I'll get emotional, and my words might push past politics.

But I shudder to think where Futurama would be had Nixon not been elected.

Agreed, Avia. Nixon was a stinker, too.

Buchanan is the worst Pres. ever, he did nothing and probably was the reason Lincoln was shot, because had he done anything, Lincoln wouldn't have been the target of so much hatred by his fellow Americans.

NOTE: I would like everyone who reads this to post their opinion, even if- hell, especially if- they disagree with me. I like to see different views of issues. Like the old cliche' goes, it would be boring if everybody was exactly the same.

Hm, not tryin' to sound bitter, but I thought I'd have gotten more replies by now (whistles nonchalantly)...

Replying to Roach: yes. Nixon was a stinker indeed.

Everything he touched seemed to go sour... like a Poisoned-Midas.

Please, please, PLEASE do NOT call me Roach! I freaking HATE roaches!!! :x

Warran Harding

the worst president cannot be easily determined. As a historian i would say Buchanan because he led us to the brink of civil war and maybe also Jimmy Carter because if you research it nearly everything that could get worse did during his administation. Nixon had a decent run during his first term dont forget. He was reelected by a landslide. Then again, only two have been impeached , andrew johnson, and Bill Clinton. That says somthing also..........

Nixon? What are you people SMOKING? He was the BEST! I respect him for his unconditional integrity! (No, I ain't bein' sarcastic)

"I am not a crook!".

I'd say it's a tie between FDR and Woodrow Wilson, hands down..
you are very much a the US is a warmonger country kinda person FDR the world war II guy right guy president of the greatest genration right i belive he's the worst president when i like hitler which is never

Nixon - Pulled the U.S. out of the left's favorite sinkhole - Vietnam.
- advanced civil rights
- Encouraged detant with China
- Created the EPA
- Supported Equal oppurtunity and Affirmative Action
- Supported handout to the needy
- Commited high crimes and misdeamenors

Sounds like a liberal president in the vain of Clinton or Carter, except for ending Vietnam

They've all been terrible presidents.

Dark Future, I didn't understand a WORD you said. Could you speak in English, please...and a little slower? Thanks.

Bush by a mile. No one would ever or has been worse. Just go to punkvoter.com and ull see why. All you others who think different have been blinded by your countries own propoganda, you are totally in the dark to what the rest of the world believes. We love americans, they are great people, they bought us coke and marylin monroe, but Bush is just shit. Hopefully sooner then later, someone besides micheal moore will noticce in your country.

and of course he did we need them back then we were in the depression of course i want them gone now but he wasn't exacatly the worst president short sighted yes worst no.

the worst president cannot be easily determined. As a historian i would say Buchanan because he led us to the brink of civil war and maybe also Jimmy Carter because if you research it nearly everything that could get worse did during his administation. Nixon had a decent run during his first term dont forget. He was reelected by a landslide. Then again, only two have been impeached , andrew johnson, and Bill Clinton. That says somthing also..........

Uhh..actually despite his impeachment trials, Bill Clinton is considered as one if the BEST presidents of the 20th Century.

Jimmy Carter won a Nobel Peace Prize.

Buchanan, ,....meh....he was a non entity.

It depends on what we are defining as the "worst".

Biggest failure in Office? Dubya.

Biggest Underacheiver...? Zachary Taylor.

President who did the most dastardly deed? Harry S Truman.

It all depends....

I'd say it's a tie between FDR and Woodrow Wilson, hands down.

Woodrow Wilson, because he: created the Federal Reserve, introduced the income tax, prohibition (it was a good idea, but unconstitutional, because it violated the 10th Amendment by infringing upon states' rights), and the direct election of senators (instead of having them chosen by state legislatures, as the Founders intended), his top advisor (Edward Mandell House) was a Marxist, he favored 'democracy' (government of men) over republican government (government by law), he got us entangled in a foreign conflict that was none of our damn business (contrary to popular belief, he did NOT try to keep the U.S. neutral; read 'The Illusion of Victory,' for more details); tried to get us to join the League of Nations and thus sacrifice our sovereignty; and, most sickening of all, the way he treated Germany. Millions of Germans starved to death, the German economy was in shambles, etc. Were it not for him, there would have been no Nazi Germany or World War II.

Now for the real stinker, FDR. He: changed the U.S. from a constitutional republic based on limited government to a socialist 'democracy,' forever destroyed the dollar by taking us off the gold standard, introduced the unconstitutional Social Security, minimum wage, welfare, etc. (nowhere does the U.S. Constitution authorize the federal government to provide financially for its citizens), drastically prolonged the Great Depression, recognized the U.S.S.R. and provided it with substantial aid (which not only prevented its collapse, but helped it become a military super power), FORCED us into a war that was, again, none of our damn business (look, the Holocaust appals me, too, but the U.S. is NOT the world's globocop) by deliberately letting Pearl Harbor happen (many books provide a staggering amount of evidence to prove this), he greatly prolonged the war in Europe by permitting nothing less than 'absolute surrender' (and would not even support anti-Hitler Germans or Nazis who genuinely wanted to overthrow Hitler and negotiate for peace), betrayed the French at Teheran and the Poles and Chinese at Yalta, forever destroyed feelings of non-interventionism (the correct term, not 'isolationism'), thus setting the stage for Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf War, etc., he allowed innumerable communists and communist sympathizers into the government, he sent all Japanese-Americans to detention camps (which sounds like something the Nazis or Soviets would do), etc., etc...


Umm, first point. Prohibition was not unconstitutional because it was an amendment to the constitution. Next, Wilson did pretty well in reguards to WWI. We could have stayed out of it entirely, but we needed to respond to the sinking of U.S. ships by the navies of the Central Powers. WWI unlike WWII had no clear good guy. Both sides used chemical weapons and the German's did not start the war. The Serbians did with the assassination of an Austrian prince. The Serbians were part of the Allied powers in WWI. Granted, the League of Nations was a terrible idea, but won't make Wilson the worst president ever.

Next, FDR was one of the greatest presidents not the worst. WWII could not have been avoided. If we had stayed in our own isolated corner of the world we still would have had to go to war. Hitler did not just want control of Europe, he wanted the world. We would have lost if we waited any longer than we did. If Britan fell, we would have been screwed. The isolationists wanted the U.S. out of the war and they needed convincing, Pearl Harbor had to happen. I am of a conservative mindset. I see this. Why don't you?

The worst president ever was probably either Carter or Ulysses S. Grant. Carter was just a bad president, and Grant was a drunk. Carter is the reason terrorists think they can get away with anything. That hostage situation did more to damage the image of the U.S. than anything our current president has even thought of doing. Don't get me started on his economic policies either. Lastly, Grant was a womanizing drunk who never did his job.

This has been the viewpoint of a conservative, not a liberal.

Bush by a mile. No one would ever or has been worse. Just go to punkvoter.com and ull see why. All you others who think different have been blinded by your countries own propoganda, you are totally in the dark to what the rest of the world believes. We love americans, they are great people, they bought us coke and marylin monroe, but Bush is just shit. Hopefully sooner then later, someone besides micheal moore will noticce in your country.

And hopefully you will notice your typo, but you can't win 'em all now can you.

Bush by a mile. No one would ever or has been worse. Just go to punkvoter.com and ull see why. All you others who think different have been blinded by your countries own propoganda, you are totally in the dark to what the rest of the world believes. We love americans, they are great people, they bought us coke and marylin monroe, but Bush is just shit. Hopefully sooner then later, someone besides micheal moore will noticce in your country.
and you're my dogs shit shit bush is the president we need we needed him to get us thru 9/11 is shudder to think if it had been al gore.

Look, Al-Sali, I can't stand Bush either, it's just that he doesn't nauseate me NEARLY as much as Wilson or Roosevelt did.

Oh, yeah, Clinton was pretty bad, too. Anyone ever heard of Chinagate?

Look, Al-Sali, I can't stand Bush either, it's just that he doesn't nauseate me NEARLY as much as Wilson or Roosevelt did.

Oh, yeah, Clinton was pretty bad, too. Anyone ever heard of Chinagate?

I've heard of it, but I still think Clinton is one of the best presidents we've seen.. but i'm not getting into it.
I hate talking politics in depth online. Seems pointless...

Let me ask you something then. How is it that tiny, landlocked Switzerland, which shared borders with TWO Axis Power countries (Germany and Italy), and had no standing army, managed to remain neutral throughout the entire war?

Andrew Johnson. His reconstruction divided the country more deeply at a time when Lincoln's "with prejudice towards none" was most needed. The result include the racial problems that have dogged the US and the welfare state that resulted partially and indirectly from those racial problems and the attempts to deal with them.

Grant was a drunkard and womanizer? Never knew that. Well, hey, you learn something new every day...

the worst president cannot be easily determined. As a historian i would say Buchanan because he led us to the brink of civil war and maybe also Jimmy Carter because if you research it nearly everything that could get worse did during his administation. Nixon had a decent run during his first term dont forget. He was reelected by a landslide. Then again, only two have been impeached , andrew johnson, and Bill Clinton. That says somthing also..........

Uhh..actually despite his impeachment trials, Bill Clinton is considered as one if the BEST presidents of the 20th Century.

Jimmy Carter won a Nobel Peace Prize.

Buchanan, ,....meh....he was a non entity.

It depends on what we are defining as the "worst".

Biggest failure in Office? Dubya.

Biggest Underacheiver...? Zachary Taylor.

President who did the most dastardly deed? Harry S Truman.

It all depends....

as much as I hate to do this, I agree with MOST of Backwood here. However, I can think of one president Worse the Bush. That would Carter. granted he won a peace prize but he only won that but cutting off the US military. He did nothing for it. Clinton downsized and cut funding but nothing to the extent that Carter did. Why do you think Carter was only a one term president?

That is only my basic opinion on this issue. My vote for worse president would have to go to Buchanan as well i'm afraid. He didn't do much to stop what was happening when the country was on verge of Civil War.

I respect your opinion, Avia, but don't agree. Clinton illegally accepted campaign money from China and various gangsters and drug empires in the Far East, gutted the hell out of our military and national security, gave China lots of military secrets (even though China still calls us 'the main enemy'), but hey, everyone has their flaws. And it's like I said, I LIKE it when people disagree, because if everyone on earth was the same...well, you know.

Look, Al-Sali, I can't stand Bush either, it's just that he doesn't nauseate me NEARLY as much as Wilson or Roosevelt did.

Oh, yeah, Clinton was pretty bad, too. Anyone ever heard of Chinagate?
ah well you can't really get many opoins on here most people are extreme leftists or minor conservatives.

FDR was by far the worst, it isn't even close.

Read this for more information on how he ruined the US for capitalism and transformed the country into something more akin to a fascist state, which he admired. While the collectivist movement started before FDR, he really took them to the next level. It is a shame 99% of Americans are uninformed about the true consequences of FDR.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0761501657/qid=1087790112/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/102-2626890-0226555?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

I'm not a 'minor' conservative. I'm a genuine conservative. Examples of genuine conservatives: George Wallace, Barry Goldwater (until the late 1980's...), Larry McDonald, Ron Paul, Robert Welch, Martin Dies, Joe McCarthy, Ezra Taft Benson, Robert Taft, etc...

Without a doubt, George W. Bush is in my estimation the worst President of the USA.

1. Without proof, without provocation, without UN approval, and with extreme malice, Bush ordered a pre-emptive strike on Iraq, which in my books, was illegal, and immoral.

2. Alienated many of US's traditional allies.

3. Passed the Patriot Act, which pretty much runs counter to the Constitution of the US.

4. His foreign policies have resulted in an increase of terrorism.

5. His foreign policies have resulted in destablization in one of the worlds' most troubled regions.

6. His fiscal policies of "tax cuts", and wars, have increased the US Debt by $1.5 Trillion in just over 3.5 years.

7. Despite his "tax cuts" that favour the wealthiest of Americans, his tenure has resulted in a net loss of 1 million jobs.

8. Despite his "tax cuts" poverty has increased.

9. Despite his "tax cuts" the unemployment rate (5.6%) remains virtually unchanged since Dec. 2003, and 1.7% higher than when he took office on Jan. 2001. The unemployment rate in Dec. 2000 was 3.9%.

There are also many other social issues that remain contentious such as gay marriage and abortion rights, that to be fair, I have not really looked at, so I will leave it at that.

I know I have missed some issues, but the above list qualifies Bush as the worst US President ever...IMHO.

Close 2nd without a doubt is "tricky Dicky".

Oh, yeah, I agree with Carter being a stinker. In addition to what others have said, he also REALLY fudged up our economy, betrayed four very loyal, pro-US, strategically important allies (Ian Smith of Rhodesia, Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlavi of Iran, Anastasio Somoza Debayle of Nicaragua, and Taiwan), and introduced the unconstitutional Departments of Energy and Education.

Oh, yeah, I agree with Carter being a stinker. In addition to what others have said, he also REALLY fudged up our economy, betrayed four very loyal, pro-US, strategically important allies (Ian Smith of Rhodesia, Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlavi of Iran, Anastasio Somoza Debayle of Nicaragua, and Taiwan), and introduced the unconstitutional Departments of Energy and Education.

Bush is indeed bad, for the reasons you mentioned and then some. The war was especially illegal because ONLY Congress can declare war (it's not the President's decision, and certainly not the UN's, because they don't own us). Yep, Bush's a stinker, all right...

I'm not a 'minor' conservative. I'm a genuine conservative. Examples of genuine conservatives: George Wallace, Barry Goldwater (until the late 1980's...), Larry McDonald, Ron Paul, Robert Welch, Martin Dies, Joe McCarthy, Ezra Taft Benson, Robert Taft, etc...
never said or impiled that just said most.

Bush is indeed bad, for the reasons you mentioned and then some. The war was especially illegal because ONLY Congress can declare war (it's not the President's decision, and certainly not the UN's, because they don't own us). Yep, Bush's a stinker, all right...

Problem Roach-Busters! Congress DID AUTHORIZE the action in Iraq.

You are correct, Formal Dances, but Congress did not declare war, they merely approved it, so it was unconstitutional.

George Washington





just kidding.

I'm not a 'minor' conservative. I'm a genuine conservative. Examples of genuine conservatives: George Wallace, Barry Goldwater (until the late 1980's...), Larry McDonald, Ron Paul, Robert Welch, Martin Dies, Joe McCarthy, Ezra Taft Benson, Robert Taft, etc...
never said or impiled that just said most.


Right. Sorry, DF.

How bout Truman, fired Gen. Douglas MacArthur if he wouldnt have we would have never had Vietnam, and China would be a democracy, since MacArthur wanted to go into red China but Truman disagreed.

yes lance we wouldn't have nam and we wouldn't have you git we could have won that war if it weren't for people like you.

Without a doubt, George W. Bush is in my estimation the worst President of the USA.

1. Without proof, without provocation, without UN approval, and with extreme malice, Bush ordered a pre-emptive strike on Iraq, which in my books, was illegal, and immoral.

2. Alienated many of US's traditional allies.

3. Passed the Patriot Act, which pretty much runs counter to the Constitution of the US.

4. His foreign policies have resulted in an increase of terrorism.

5. His foreign policies have resulted in destablization in one of the worlds' most troubled regions.

6. His fiscal policies of "tax cuts", and wars, have increased the US Debt by $1.5 Trillion in just over 3.5 years.

7. Despite his "tax cuts" that favour the wealthiest of Americans, his tenure has resulted in a net loss of 1 million jobs.

8. Despite his "tax cuts" poverty has increased.

9. Despite his "tax cuts" the unemployment rate (5.6%) remains virtually unchanged since Dec. 2003, and 1.7% higher than when he took office on Jan. 2001. The unemployment rate in Dec. 2000 was 3.9%.

There are also many other social issues that remain contentious such as gay marriage and abortion rights, that to be fair, I have not really looked at, so I will leave it at that.

I know I have missed some issues, but the above list qualifies Bush as the worst US President ever...IMHO.

Close 2nd without a doubt is "tricky Dicky".

If I was alive back in the Vietnam war I would have supported it but how can you call me a git people like me? I am no pot smoking hippie like the anti war dopes of the Vietnam period.

Bush by a mile. No one would ever or has been worse. Just go to punkvoter.com and ull see why. All you others who think different have been blinded by your countries own propoganda, you are totally in the dark to what the rest of the world believes. We love americans, they are great people, they bought us coke and marylin monroe, but Bush is just shit. Hopefully sooner then later, someone besides micheal moore will noticce in your country.

You sir, are a moron.

Punkvoter.com? Sounds like another, stereotypical "LOOK AT ME! I'M SO REBELLIOUS!" teen site. All persons who frequent such places should be forced to grow the fuck up.

Our own propaganda? Please. With the media bad-mouthing Bush at every possible moment, I can hardly see how we're being "brainwashed."

And Michael Moore is a waste of skin, oxygen, and should expire immediately.

Frankly, I don't like Bush all that much. His lack of balls when dealing with terrorist scum for fear of criticism is appalling.

Still, at the very least he's trying to do something. Voting for him, in hopes that he'll throw away the kiddie gloves come 2nd term.

Aside from those quibbles, fix your terrible grammar, syntax, and punctuation to something readable.

As for the worst President...

Jimmeh Carter. I like to think of him as the Communist's own personal *** slave. Everytime the U.S and Russia went into a confrontation during his term, it'd go something like this...

Russia: Bend over.
Carter: How far?

FDR wasn't too bad. Although I extremely dislike his social policies, I do admire the man's integrity and courage in dealing with external threats.

Bush by a mile. No one would ever or has been worse. Just go to punkvoter.com and ull see why. All you others who think different have been blinded by your countries own propoganda, you are totally in the dark to what the rest of the world believes. We love americans, they are great people, they bought us coke and marylin monroe, but Bush is just shit. Hopefully sooner then later, someone besides micheal moore will noticce in your country.

You sir, are a moron.

Punkvoter.com? Sounds like another, stereotypical "LOOK AT ME! I'M SO REBELLIOUS!" teen site. All persons who frequent such places should be forced to grow the f--- up.

Our own propaganda? Please. With the media bad-mouthing Bush at every possible moment, I can hardly see how we're being "brainwashed."

And Michael Moore is a waste of skin, oxygen, and should expire immediately.

Frankly, I don't like Bush all that much. His lack of balls when dealing with terrorist scum for fear of criticism is appalling.

Still, at the very least he's trying to do something. Voting for him, in hopes that he'll throw away the kiddie gloves come 2nd term.

You sir, are mistaken.

Our own propaganda? Please. With the media bad-mouthing Bush at every possible moment, I can hardly see how we're being "brainwashed

Like from where? Fox News?

how can any of you idiots not think that George Dubya Bush isnt the worst president? you all make me want to vomit until the lining of my esophagus has corroded to the point where I can no longer talk

Oh, yeah, Johnson was AWFUL. He got us into an unconstitutional and illegal war in Vietnam, refused to let us win it (by imposing hundreds of rules of engagement, equipping troops with faulty and outdated equipment, not permitting us to follow the enemy into Laos, Cambodia, or North Vietnam, forbidding our men to shoot unless shot at, protecting almost all of North Vietnam from bombing [including the capital, Hanoi, and Haiphong, through which came over 70% of NV's war supplies], frequently calling time-outs and truces, which gave the enemy time to recover and lick their wounds, not censoring the media, etc.). He even refused help for Vietnam from some allies (namely Rhodesia and Taiwan; both offered to send troops, but Taiwan was allowed only to send a VERY limited number of advisors), undermined loyal anti-communist allies (like Rhodesia, which he imposed an arms embargo and sanctions on), while at the same time trading hundreds of 'non-strategic' supplies with the Soviet Union, which, in turn, sent the supplies to Vietnam..., he made the nation more divided than it had ever been with the exception of the Civil War, introduced two unconstitutional departments (Transportation and Housing and Urban Development), completed FDR's job of killing the dollar by taking us off the silver standard, virtually destroyed states' rights, massively increased the size of the federal government, etc...

Truman was AWFUL as well. While widely believed to be an anti-communist, Truman was the farthest thing from anti-communist you could ever find. He got us into the United Nations, which was founded by hundreds of communists (like Alger Hiss, Andrei Gromyko, Harry Dexter White, John Carter Vincent, etc.) and pro-communist one-worlders (like John Foster Dulles, etc.), got us into an unconstitutional war which he refused to let us win (thus establishing Red China as a major military power in Asia; the stalemate in Korea also gave an enormous boost to the morale of the communists in Indochina), let communism swallow up scores of countries in Eastern Europe, he did nothing to remove pro-communists or communists from the government, and even opposed anti-communists (like Joe McCarthy), wanted a national health care plan (which is highly socialistic and unconstitutional), etc.

Bush by a mile. No one would ever or has been worse. Just go to punkvoter.com and ull see why. All you others who think different have been blinded by your countries own propoganda, you are totally in the dark to what the rest of the world believes. We love americans, they are great people, they bought us coke and marylin monroe, but Bush is just shit. Hopefully sooner then later, someone besides micheal moore will noticce in your country.

You sir, are a moron.

Punkvoter.com? Sounds like another, stereotypical "LOOK AT ME! I'M SO REBELLIOUS!" teen site. All persons who frequent such places should be forced to grow the f--- up.

Our own propaganda? Please. With the media bad-mouthing Bush at every possible moment, I can hardly see how we're being "brainwashed."

And Michael Moore is a waste of skin, oxygen, and should expire immediately.


Still, at the very least he's trying to do something. Voting for him, in hopes that he'll throw away the kiddie gloves come 2nd term.
Frankly, I don't like Bush all that much. His lack of balls when dealing with terrorist scum for fear of criticism is appalling.

You sir, are mistaken.

Our own propaganda? Please. With the media bad-mouthing Bush at every possible moment, I can hardly see how we're being "brainwashed

Like from where? Fox News?


And Michael Moore is a waste of skin, oxygen, and should expire immediately.

Why? Becuase YOU dont like him?
Who gives a crap about your opinion?
The guy won an Academy Award, and he's a New York Times Best Selling Author.

Somebody apparently likes him.

Frankly, I don't like Bush all that much. His lack of balls when dealing with terrorist scum for fear of criticism is appalling.

Like attacking and taking over two soveriegn nations, and replacing their leaders with hand picked puppet leaders?

What more do you want?

Nukes?

Without a doubt, George W. Bush is in my estimation the worst President of the USA.

1. Without proof, without provocation, without UN approval, and with extreme malice, Bush ordered a pre-emptive strike on Iraq, which in my books, was illegal, and immoral.

2. Alienated many of US's traditional allies.

3. Passed the Patriot Act, which pretty much runs counter to the Constitution of the US.

4. His foreign policies have resulted in an increase of terrorism.

5. His foreign policies have resulted in destablization in one of the worlds' most troubled regions.

6. His fiscal policies of "tax cuts", and wars, have increased the US Debt by $1.5 Trillion in just over 3.5 years.

7. Despite his "tax cuts" that favour the wealthiest of Americans, his tenure has resulted in a net loss of 1 million jobs.

8. Despite his "tax cuts" poverty has increased.

9. Despite his "tax cuts" the unemployment rate (5.6%) remains virtually unchanged since Dec. 2003, and 1.7% higher than when he took office on Jan. 2001. The unemployment rate in Dec. 2000 was 3.9%.

There are also many other social issues that remain contentious such as gay marriage and abortion rights, that to be fair, I have not really looked at, so I will leave it at that.

I know I have missed some issues, but the above list qualifies Bush as the worst US President ever...IMHO.

Close 2nd without a doubt is "tricky Dicky".
dingdong welcome to number two
2. he aleinated wait he asked for their help he did over and over they just don't like us france gave money to people who said there was a bomb on a train and their wasn't one. germany doesn't like us only britan vaugley likes us and we have them on our side don't we.
4. no he just manged to get the office when it looked weak a new candate who looks frail and they already hated the us and they thought hu easy not even the sligthest work it wasn't so this distrubed their whole plan of braking us you know after preal harbor you would think people would learn.
5. yeah destablization as in founding of a republic and demorcratic one like ours get over it.
6. and it can pay that in a year get over it man
7. hell yeah he "favord" wealthy with tax cost making it what people less wealthy had on percents its not a equal tax system it is a goes up every bit more money you are worth system he just made that.
9.unemploy ment went down only a mill you should be impress that less then %01 and the wtcs were about 3 million of jobs which it supported.

Look, Balss and everyone else, I'd appreciate it if you cut the flaming. This is supposed to be a thread open and friendly to all ideas.

how can any of you idiots not think that George Dubya Bush isnt the worst president? you all make me want to vomit until the lining of my esophagus has corroded to the point where I can no longer talk
i'll tell you when you tell me why every other one was better

Let me ask you something then. How is it that tiny, landlocked Switzerland, which shared borders with TWO Axis Power countries (Germany and Italy), and had no standing army, managed to remain neutral throughout the entire war?

Ahem, Switzerland did have an army. They also had massive mountian fortifications that would have taken Hitler massive amounts of resources to break through. Hitler could not afford to slow down, so he didn't attack Switzerland. Italy never had a chance of taking the Swiss at all. Hitler did plan to come back and take Switzerland after he had fully secured the rest of Europe though.

Bush by a mile. No one would ever or has been worse. Just go to punkvoter.com and ull see why. All you others who think different have been blinded by your countries own propoganda, you are totally in the dark to what the rest of the world believes. We love americans, they are great people, they bought us coke and marylin monroe, but Bush is just shit. Hopefully sooner then later, someone besides micheal moore will noticce in your country.

You sir, are a moron.

Punkvoter.com? Sounds like another, stereotypical "LOOK AT ME! I'M SO REBELLIOUS!" teen site. All persons who frequent such places should be forced to grow the f--- up.

Our own propaganda? Please. With the media bad-mouthing Bush at every possible moment, I can hardly see how we're being "brainwashed."

And Michael Moore is a waste of skin, oxygen, and should expire immediately.


Still, at the very least he's trying to do something. Voting for him, in hopes that he'll throw away the kiddie gloves come 2nd term.
Frankly, I don't like Bush all that much. His lack of balls when dealing with terrorist scum for fear of criticism is appalling.

You sir, are mistaken.

Our own propaganda? Please. With the media bad-mouthing Bush at every possible moment, I can hardly see how we're being "brainwashed

Like from where? Fox News?


And Michael Moore is a waste of skin, oxygen, and should expire immediately.

Why? Becuase YOU dont like him?
Who gives a crap about your opinion?
The guy won an Academy Award, and he's a New York Times Best Selling Author.

Somebody apparently likes him.

Frankly, I don't like Bush all that much. His lack of balls when dealing with terrorist scum for fear of criticism is appalling.

Like attacking and taking over two soveriegn nations, and replacing their leaders with hand picked puppet leaders?

What more do you want?

Nukes?
hand picked my sorry ass how did he do that they were choosen by the residence not us not the US.

I'll toss my opinion in...

It all depends upon your political ideology and by what basis you judge the president. There's no clear-cut "absolute worst president." Also, are you judging the man by only his personal charisma, leadership ability, and personal beliefs or by what policies were enacted during his term(s)? Also, can the president be judged by the actions of his cabinet and staff? I'll toss out some of my opinions as to the worst presidents in history and why.

If you want to talk about human rights violations, you've got Andrew Jackson and Ulysses S. Grant. Wonderful humanitarians, let me tell you. Two more biggies here are both Roosevelts for what happened to the Japanese-American population during the first half of the Twentieth Century.

[Here I should openly admit I feel that FDR is one of the most effective and charismatic presidents in American history. Say of it what you will, but the New Deal and FDR's leadership saved the country and did more than its part to win WWII.]

As far as outright screwing with the Constitution, you've got...Washington and Jefferson. But then again, we needed the national bank and the land, didn't we? The Bush admin., with the PATRIOT Act and the like, looks to be almost as bad, in both civil rights and Constitution-humping.

[Regarding Washington and Jefferson, this is an arguable point. The Constitution was still new and relatively open-ended, so these two Presidents played as much a part in interpreting it and evolving the Constitution into a working document as they did manipulating it to serve their purpose.]

Economically, you have Herbert Hoover. Wonderful Secretary of Commerce and led some great humanitarian efforts during World War I, but when it came to the Great Depression, he was almost worthless.

Worst wartime president? Lyndon Johnson. Seriously mishandled the Vietnam War.

Worst choice in cabinet and staff? Ulysses S. Grant and George W. Bush.

My choice for least charismatic president and worst leader is easily George W. Bush. Dubya also wins my vote for least intelligent president, also; however, the "lack of common sense" award goes to William H. Harrison.

Let me ask you something then. How is it that tiny, landlocked Switzerland, which shared borders with TWO Axis Power countries (Germany and Italy), and had no standing army, managed to remain neutral throughout the entire war?

Ahem, Switzerland did have an army. They also had massive mountian fortifications that would have taken Hitler massive amounts of resources to break through. Hitler could not afford to slow down, so he didn't attack Switzerland. Italy never had a chance of taking the Swiss at all. Hitler did plan to come back and take Switzerland after he had fully secured the rest of Europe though.

Whoops, my bad. But still, if the U.S. really wanted to, it could have remained neutral.

no matter how many rewards a guy gets he can still be scum i mean look at kerry.

Bush by a mile. No one would ever or has been worse. Just go to punkvoter.com and ull see why. All you others who think different have been blinded by your countries own propoganda, you are totally in the dark to what the rest of the world believes. We love americans, they are great people, they bought us coke and marylin monroe, but Bush is just shit. Hopefully sooner then later, someone besides micheal moore will noticce in your country.

You sir, are a moron.

Punkvoter.com? Sounds like another, stereotypical "LOOK AT ME! I'M SO REBELLIOUS!" teen site. All persons who frequent such places should be forced to grow the f--- up.

Our own propaganda? Please. With the media bad-mouthing Bush at every possible moment, I can hardly see how we're being "brainwashed."

And Michael Moore is a waste of skin, oxygen, and should expire immediately.


Still, at the very least he's trying to do something. Voting for him, in hopes that he'll throw away the kiddie gloves come 2nd term.
Frankly, I don't like Bush all that much. His lack of balls when dealing with terrorist scum for fear of criticism is appalling.

You sir, are mistaken.

Our own propaganda? Please. With the media bad-mouthing Bush at every possible moment, I can hardly see how we're being "brainwashed

Like from where? Fox News?


And Michael Moore is a waste of skin, oxygen, and should expire immediately.

Why? Becuase YOU dont like him?
Who gives a crap about your opinion?
The guy won an Academy Award, and he's a New York Times Best Selling Author.

Somebody apparently likes him.

Frankly, I don't like Bush all that much. His lack of balls when dealing with terrorist scum for fear of criticism is appalling.

Like attacking and taking over two soveriegn nations, and replacing their leaders with hand picked puppet leaders?

What more do you want?

Nukes?
hand picked my sorry ass how did he do that they were choosen by the residence not us not the US.

Do you even read the news?

The leader in Afghanistan is named Karzai.
He used to work for Cheney.

When did you see an election over in Iraq?

Get the facts.

no matter how many rewards a guy gets he can still be scum i mean look at kerry.


Agreed, Dark Future.

Roach-Buster, I agree with some of your points, but I belive some of your points require some clarification.

First: Prohibition was Constitutional, as it was an amendment to the Constitution. It was just monumentally stupid, as it simply is imposible to enforce with anything short of a police state.

Second: Wilsons concept of democracy and his words were frequently at odds. He talked about our freedoms, but it was under his administration the most direct attacks on Americas Constitutional freedoms were committed. Laws were passed at his request limiting freedom of speach, assembly, and the press.

Third: I agree as well that Wilsons attempt to undermine American sovereignty is signifigant, we should also remember that it was Wilson himself who pushed Congress to keep us out of the League of Nations. I say this not to praise him however. His reasons for scuttling his own proposal was due to provisions added by other countrys that ran counter to his extremely racist philosophy.

Fouth: The treatment of Germany in the Treaty of Versailles was mostly the responsibility of Britain and France. Wilsons failure was in presenting any arguement against these provisions. His failure is mostly one of lack of understanding of history. This does not however exonerate him from his responsibility here.

Fifth: Much of what RB lists as Wilson and FDRs' failings in creating the welfare state was not Unconstitutional as there is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits things like Social Security. Shortsighted, certainly. Poor economic theory, debateable but I would agree it was piss-poor. But not Unconstitutional.

Sixth: Regarding the "forced us into war by allowing Pearl Harbor to happen theory", the only way we could have stopped the attacks would be to either resume selling material to the Japaneese or to sink thier fleet in the Pacific. Selling the metals they needed from us would have only caused a greater area of conflict in the Pacific, and an attack on the fleet would have been itself an act of war. Allowing it to happen in the way it did was rank stupidity on the part of the Dept of War, as it was known then, for failing to prepare for the attacks. Any other action would have required an act of Congress or it would have indeed been Unconstitutional.

Seventh: FDR did infact act in an Unconstitutional manner when he created by presidenal decree a series of jobs programs that were later struck down by the Supreme Court. Of course the same could be said for the Louisiana Purchase, but I dont think too many in the Midwest today would argue with that one.

That said, I would have to say that my choice for Worst President is ... U.S. Grant. He ran what had to be the most corrupt administration in the history of this nation, and was either bought himself or the most completly out to lunch chief exec. in world history.

no matter how many rewards a guy gets he can still be scum i mean look at kerry.


Agreed, Dark Future.

Right..becuase a guy who won A Silver Star, and Two Bronze stars, and three purple hearts is no better than a guy who was AWOL while serving, right?

What I meant was that, had the U.S. stayed completely out of Europe and Asia's business, it's doubtful the Japanese would have attacked.

no matter how many rewards a guy gets he can still be scum i mean look at kerry.


Agreed, Dark Future.

Right..becuase a guy who won A Silver Star, and Two Bronze stars, and three purple hearts is no better than a guy who was AWOL while serving, right?


Look, don't get me wrong, BackwoodsSquatches, Bush disgusts me just as much as Kerry. I think they're both a couple of a**holes.

But most of Kerry's purple hearts are under question he got the silver star for tracking down and killing a wounded viet-cong in his patrol boat.

What I meant was that, had the U.S. stayed completely out of Europe and Asia's business, it's doubtful the Japanese would have attacked.

No.

They still likely would have.

We refused to sell them massive amounts of Steel, and other raw materials, and they would have likely attacked us anyway.

Grant was a drunkard and womanizer? Never knew that. Well, hey, you learn something new every day...

You didn't know that? He was also a very poor general. He liked to simply send waves of troops straight at the enemy lines rather than use things like tactics. He got more people killed in the Civil War than anyone else, but he did 'conquer' the South. Well, actually his other generals did all of the real work. He just screwed things up so that the South had a fighting chance, but that got him the war hero status that made him president. As president, he didn't really do much that was very important with the exception of the drinking and the womanizing. He was a drinker more than a womanizer. He was seriously alcoholic. His administration had plenty of scandal to keep the newspapers interested though.

Bush by a mile. No one would ever or has been worse. Just go to punkvoter.com and ull see why. All you others who think different have been blinded by your countries own propoganda, you are totally in the dark to what the rest of the world believes. We love americans, they are great people, they bought us coke and marylin monroe, but Bush is just shit. Hopefully sooner then later, someone besides micheal moore will noticce in your country.

You sir, are a moron.

Punkvoter.com? Sounds like another, stereotypical "LOOK AT ME! I'M SO REBELLIOUS!" teen site. All persons who frequent such places should be forced to grow the f--- up.

Our own propaganda? Please. With the media bad-mouthing Bush at every possible moment, I can hardly see how we're being "brainwashed."

And Michael Moore is a waste of skin, oxygen, and should expire immediately.


Still, at the very least he's trying to do something. Voting for him, in hopes that he'll throw away the kiddie gloves come 2nd term.
Frankly, I don't like Bush all that much. His lack of balls when dealing with terrorist scum for fear of criticism is appalling.

You sir, are mistaken.

Our own propaganda? Please. With the media bad-mouthing Bush at every possible moment, I can hardly see how we're being "brainwashed

Like from where? Fox News?


And Michael Moore is a waste of skin, oxygen, and should expire immediately.

Why? Becuase YOU dont like him?
Who gives a crap about your opinion?
The guy won an Academy Award, and he's a New York Times Best Selling Author.

Somebody apparently likes him.

Frankly, I don't like Bush all that much. His lack of balls when dealing with terrorist scum for fear of criticism is appalling.

Like attacking and taking over two soveriegn nations, and replacing their leaders with hand picked puppet leaders?

What more do you want?

Nukes?
hand picked my sorry ass how did he do that they were choosen by the residence not us not the US.

Do you even read the news?

The leader in Afghanistan is named Karzai.
He used to work for Cheney.

When did you see an election over in Iraq?

Get the facts.
acctually no becasue their prime candidate got killed git futher who would do a better job who we have got a option of.

The reason I said all that welfare stuff was unconstitutional was because it violated the 10th Amendment (which goes something like 'Those powers not delegated by the constitution to the federal government nor prohibited by it are reserved to the states respectively, and to the people), so welfare was something that should have been a state matter, or at least I think so.

P.S. I probably misquoted almost every word of the 10th Amendment, but
I got the basic concept of it right.

What I meant was that, had the U.S. stayed completely out of Europe and Asia's business, it's doubtful the Japanese would have attacked.

No.

They still likely would have.

We refused to sell them massive amounts of Steel, and other raw materials, and they would have likely attacked us anyway.

Maybe so, but I beg to differ. There are plenty of books out there that provide evidence of this. Not 100% proof, but highly suggestive evidence.


P.S. I am not slamming anyone's opinions, but simply explaining the
reasoning behind my own.

Grant was a drunkard and womanizer? Never knew that. Well, hey, you learn something new every day...

You didn't know that? He was also a very poor general. He liked to simply send waves of troops straight at the enemy lines rather than use things like tactics. He got more people killed in the Civil War than anyone else, but he did 'conquer' the South. Well, actually his other generals did all of the real work. He just screwed things up so that the South had a fighting chance, but that got him the war hero status that made him president. As president, he didn't really do much that was very important with the exception of the drinking and the womanizing. He was a drinker more than a womanizer. He was seriously alcoholic. His administration had plenty of scandal to keep the newspapers interested though.
poor right yeah thats how we won the civil war no he was ok however lee was a much better one slighty overcondefident

Grant was a drunkard and womanizer? Never knew that. Well, hey, you learn something new every day...

You didn't know that? He was also a very poor general. He liked to simply send waves of troops straight at the enemy lines rather than use things like tactics. He got more people killed in the Civil War than anyone else, but he did 'conquer' the South. Well, actually his other generals did all of the real work. He just screwed things up so that the South had a fighting chance, but that got him the war hero status that made him president. As president, he didn't really do much that was very important with the exception of the drinking and the womanizing. He was a drinker more than a womanizer. He was seriously alcoholic. His administration had plenty of scandal to keep the newspapers interested though.

No, I honestly didn't. Thanks for the enlightenment, though. I like to learn new things. I mean, I knew about the poor general part and the scandals in his administration, but not about the drinking or womanizing. Thanks again.

Bush by a mile. No one would ever or has been worse. Just go to punkvoter.com and ull see why. All you others who think different have been blinded by your countries own propoganda, you are totally in the dark to what the rest of the world believes. We love americans, they are great people, they bought us coke and marylin monroe, but Bush is just shit. Hopefully sooner then later, someone besides micheal moore will noticce in your country.

You sir, are a moron.

Punkvoter.com? Sounds like another, stereotypical "LOOK AT ME! I'M SO REBELLIOUS!" teen site. All persons who frequent such places should be forced to grow the f--- up.

Our own propaganda? Please. With the media bad-mouthing Bush at every possible moment, I can hardly see how we're being "brainwashed."

And Michael Moore is a waste of skin, oxygen, and should expire immediately.


Still, at the very least he's trying to do something. Voting for him, in hopes that he'll throw away the kiddie gloves come 2nd term.
Frankly, I don't like Bush all that much. His lack of balls when dealing with terrorist scum for fear of criticism is appalling.

You sir, are mistaken.

Our own propaganda? Please. With the media bad-mouthing Bush at every possible moment, I can hardly see how we're being "brainwashed

Like from where? Fox News?


And Michael Moore is a waste of skin, oxygen, and should expire immediately.

Why? Becuase YOU dont like him?
Who gives a crap about your opinion?
The guy won an Academy Award, and he's a New York Times Best Selling Author.

Somebody apparently likes him.

Frankly, I don't like Bush all that much. His lack of balls when dealing with terrorist scum for fear of criticism is appalling.

Like attacking and taking over two soveriegn nations, and replacing their leaders with hand picked puppet leaders?

What more do you want?

Nukes?
hand picked my sorry ass how did he do that they were choosen by the residence not us not the US.

Do you even read the news?

The leader in Afghanistan is named Karzai.
He used to work for Cheney.

When did you see an election over in Iraq?

Get the facts.
acctually no becasue their prime candidate got killed git futher who would do a better job who we have got a option of.

No you didnt see an election did you?
Thats becuase there wasnt one.

Heres a thought..why dont we let the Iraqi people decide who leads them?

What I meant was that, had the U.S. stayed completely out of Europe and Asia's business, it's doubtful the Japanese would have attacked.

No.

They still likely would have.

We refused to sell them massive amounts of Steel, and other raw materials, and they would have likely attacked us anyway.

Not only that, but Hitler had this whole conquer the world scheme going. If we had just sat there Hitler would have eventually taken Britan. Then Japan and Germany would have conquered Russia. Following the defeat of Russia, the only power really left in the way of the Axis powers claiming the globe would be us. It isn't like playing nice would have really kept Hitler from making an assault. Just imagine what WWII would have been like then. There would have been a Battle of New York, and the Siege of Chicago...That would have sucked.

You have a point there.

The power to levy taxes and distribute money was given to Congress and as those acts were passed by Congress they would pass Constitutional muster. Of course, just because somethings are Constitutional does not make them right. For example: Flag Burning, Constitutionaly guaranteed free expression but a piss-poor way of getting your point accross.

The power to levy taxes and distribute money was given to Congress and as those acts were passed by Congress they would pass Constitutional muster. Of course, just because somethings are Constitutional does not make them right. For example: Flag Burning, Constitutionaly guaranteed free expression but a piss-poor way of getting your point accross.

True, true.

introduced the income tax

Actually,the legislation for the 16th Amendment started during the Taft administration,and Congress passed the Amendment on July 12,1909 (the first year of the Taft administration),with ratification occurring on Feb. 3,1913 (less than one month into Wilson's presidency). So if you want to blame someone for the income tax,blame Taft.

And BTW,Wilson knew that imposing harsh terms on Germany would only mean trouble in the long run. Because of that,he lobbied extensively for the terms of surrender to be relatively fair. Unfortunately,despite his efforts,the allies wouldn't hear of it,and it was only through sheer force of will on the part of Wilson that the terms in the Treaty of Versailles weren't any harsher than they already were.

(nowhere does the U.S. Constitution authorize the federal government to provide financially for its citizens)

So you're saying that that bit in the preamble about "promot the general welfare" is just pretty words on paper with no real meaning?

FORCED us into a war that was, again, none of our damn business (look, the Holocaust appals me, too, but the U.S. is NOT the world's globocop)

Actually,as Omni Conglomerates mentioned,American involvement in WWII was inevitable - partly because Nazi Germany,left unchecked,would've become a threat to the US,but mostly because Japan,due to resentments for real and perceived sleights from West that had been building ever since Commodore Perry's gunboat diplomacy,wanted to strike at US interests in the Pacific. FDR could [i]hardly have forced us into a war that was coming our way anyway.

poor right yeah thats how we won the civil war no he was ok however lee was a much better one slighty overcondefident

Dude, Grant sucked as a tactician. He simply used the massive numbers he had to overwhelm the Confederate troops. Some of the bloodiest battles of the Civil War were his fault. There were times when he could have outflanked the Confederates or simply surrounded them and forced a surrender, but instead he just launched wave after wave at their front lines battering them until the enemy didn't have enough ammo left to keep fighting or they were pretty much all dead or wounded. He was a terrible General. There are better ways to win a war than by brute force. Lee understood that very well. He was an amazing tactician, granted cocky, but he was one of the reasons the South survived as long as it did. True, had he never ventured into Maryland, or gone into Union territory at all, the South might still be an independent state today, but everyone makes mistakes.

[quote=Roach-Busters]introduced the income tax

Actually,the legislation for the 16th Amendment started during the Taft administration,and Congress passed the Amendment on July 12,1909 (the first year of the Taft administration),with ratification occurring on Feb. 3,1913 (less than one month into Wilson's presidency). So if you want to blame someone for the income tax,blame Taft.

And BTW,Wilson knew that imposing harsh terms on Germany would only mean trouble in the long run. Because of that,he lobbied extensively for the terms of surrender to be relatively fair. Unfortunately,despite his efforts,the allies wouldn't hear of it,and it was only through sheer force of will on the part of Wilson that the terms in the Treaty of Versailles weren't any harsher than they already were.

(nowhere does the U.S. Constitution authorize the federal government to provide financially for its citizens)

So you're saying that that bit in the preamble about "promot[ing] the general welfare" is just pretty words on paper with no real meaning?

FORCED us into a war that was, again, none of our damn business (look, the Holocaust appals me, too, but the U.S. is NOT the world's globocop)


Good points. However, the constitution said PROMOTE the general welfare, not PROVIDE FOR the general welfare.

What I meant was that, had the U.S. stayed completely out of Europe and Asia's business, it's doubtful the Japanese would have attacked.

No.

They still likely would have.

We refused to sell them massive amounts of Steel, and other raw materials, and they would have likely attacked us anyway.


I would wager later, not sooner, as the Japanese most likely would have dealt with China and Russia first and solidified their control over Asia and the Pacific rim first. A Japanese attack, had embargos not have been placed, was going to happen. The Japanese were still incredibly sore at America over the Treaty of Portsmouth, and the Gentleman's Agreement served as a major disgrace to imperial Japan; not to mention the establishment of Pearl Harbor was seen as an incredible act of aggression by the United States. Plus, increasing amounts of anti-Japanese propaganda, mistreatment of Japanese immigrants, and quickly-atrophying diplomatic relations between the United States and Japan caused the situation to worsen.

Another excellent point.

Bush by a mile. No one would ever or has been worse. Just go to punkvoter.com and ull see why. All you others who think different have been blinded by your countries own propoganda, you are totally in the dark to what the rest of the world believes. We love americans, they are great people, they bought us coke and marylin monroe, but Bush is just shit. Hopefully sooner then later, someone besides micheal moore will noticce in your country.
Ho ho ho! Now that's comedy! I had no idea there would be so much humor in this game!

Any other contenders for worst President?

Bush by a mile. No one would ever or has been worse. Just go to punkvoter.com and ull see why. All you others who think different have been blinded by your countries own propoganda, you are totally in the dark to what the rest of the world believes. We love americans, they are great people, they bought us coke and marylin monroe, but Bush is just shit. Hopefully sooner then later, someone besides micheal moore will noticce in your country.
Ho ho ho! Now that's comedy! I had no idea there would be so much humor in this game!

well it is time for me to go, but thank you all for a lively debate.

Yeah, it's been fun! :D

2 Roach-Busters,

Just out of curiosity, how did FDR betray the French at the Tehran and the Chinese at the Yalta Conference (per original post)?

He betrayed the Chinese by giving Stalin Manchuria, Mongolia, and a vast number of leftover Japanese arms, which Stalin in turn gave to Mao, and Mao used to defeat our ally, Chiang Kai-shek, and conquer China. He betrayed the French by agreeing (with Stalin) not to let them return to Indochina (I'm not saying they should have returned, though), and giving vast amounts of aid to Ho Chi Minh and his flunkies, even though FDR knew it would eventually be used against our allies, the French.

No man's actions have had such disasterous consequences as Lincoln's. Before him most power was with the states and America was fairly free. Lincoln asserted the authority of the Federal govt at bayonet point (this was his real motivation, slavery was a retrospective justification to get people to fight). As a result the American Empire was created and the world lost it's last best hope. The beacon of freedom was extinguished. If it wasn't for Lincoln the modern pseudo-fascist presidents (particularly FDR onwards) couldn't have come about.

You are correct, Formal Dances, but Congress did not declare war, they merely approved it, so it was unconstitutional.

Oh c'mon..you're arguing semantics now?....Ok..ok..so they Congress didn't say.."We Declare War"...ya got us..we ignored the Constitution..geesh...if the Congress gives the President the go ahead to use all necessary force..that pretty much sounds to me like a Declaration of War?....

But most of Kerry's purple hearts are under question he got the silver star for tracking down and killing a wounded viet-cong in his patrol boat.
That is not exactly true. You might want to read the Boston Globe. They wrote a 3 or 4 part story on Kerry, and it states that his silver star was well earned.

No man's actions have had such disasterous consequences as Lincoln's. Before him most power was with the states and America was fairly free. Lincoln asserted the authority of the Federal govt at bayonet point (this was his real motivation, slavery was a retrospective justification to get people to fight). As a result the American Empire was created and the world lost it's last best hope. The beacon of freedom was extinguished. If it wasn't for Lincoln the modern pseudo-fascist presidents (particularly FDR onwards) couldn't have come about.
I think that Lincoln lit the "beacon of freedom" and lived up to the intent of the following words:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Now either those are meaningful words, or not?

No man's actions have had such disasterous consequences as Lincoln's. Before him most power was with the states and America was fairly free. Lincoln asserted the authority of the Federal govt at bayonet point (this was his real motivation, slavery was a retrospective justification to get people to fight). As a result the American Empire was created and the world lost it's last best hope. The beacon of freedom was extinguished. If it wasn't for Lincoln the modern pseudo-fascist presidents (particularly FDR onwards) couldn't have come about.
I think that Lincoln lit the "beacon of freedom" and lived up to the intent of the following words:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Now either those are meaningful words, or not?

No man's actions have had such disasterous consequences as Lincoln's. Before him most power was with the states and America was fairly free. Lincoln asserted the authority of the Federal govt at bayonet point (this was his real motivation, slavery was a retrospective justification to get people to fight). As a result the American Empire was created and the world lost it's last best hope. The beacon of freedom was extinguished. If it wasn't for Lincoln the modern pseudo-fascist presidents (particularly FDR onwards) couldn't have come about.
I think that Lincoln lit the "beacon of freedom" and lived up to the intent of the following words:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Now either those are meaningful words, or not?

The war wasn't about slavery, it was about enforcing the supremacy of the federal govt at bayonet point. The emacipation proclaimation by Lincoln only effected territory held by confederates, it didn't effect North occupied land where slaves were still held. It's purpose was 2 fold i./ to encourage a slave rebellion in the south ii./ to give the North's imperialism an aura of moral respectability. That the war was not about slavery is incontestable, that was retrospective justification. "History is written by the victor". One confederate soldier said something along the lines of.....

"We weren't fighting for slavery. Most of us were far too poor to afford a slave even if we wanted one. We fought because we didn't want to be told what to do by Washington".

The confederates were fighting for the ideals that America stands for. Freedom and self rule. The fact that slavery existed in the South is reprehensible but so is the fact that conscription, taxation and other tyrannies existed in the North. The civil war has sometimes been called the second American revolution. This time the revolutionaries lost and tyranny won.

As for "protecting" rights, Lincoln achieved this by a) Declaring war thus murdering hundreds of thousands of innocents b) Starting Conscription thus enslaving hundreds of thousands more c) Paying for it all by taxes, the "legitimised" armed robbery of the populace. He also violated the rulings of the supreme court and violated the constitution, not that it was ever worth anything. Lincoln violated rights more than any previous president and paved the way for the totalitarian elect-a-despot states we see today.

"We weren't fighting for slavery. Most of us were far too poor to afford a slave even if we wanted one. We fought because we didn't want to be told what to do by Washington".The confederates were fighting for the ideals that America stands for. Freedom and self rule. This time the revolutionaries lost and tyranny won.

The civil war wasn't about freedom vs. tyrrany either way. It was about a union of liberty with taxes or a confederacy of liberty with slaves. Personally, I'd rather have taxes than see the black people I know being treated as "three-fiths" human. Slavery was abhorent to what the US was mesnt to stand for. Control from Washington was debatable (bear in mind, George Washington favoured a strong federal government, so Lincoln didn't "pave the way for fascists and tyrants in Washington", he restored what Washinton wanted.) The rebels aren't always right.

Worst President: Firstly, I repect all presidents as they managed to reach the highest office and thus must have all had exceptional characteristics. That said......

Worst presidents for in-action:

Buchanan
Grant
Taft
Hoover

Worst Presidents for corruption on some level:

Van Buren
Grant
R B Hayes (his election)
B Harisson
Harding
Nixon

Worst Presidenst for Foreign affairs:

Madison (1812)
L B Johnson (Vietnam)
Jimmy Carter (Iran hostages)


And why is everyone so worked up about Bush? There is not a single thig he's done that hasn't been done by other presidenst before him. Observe....

"The Patriot Act will rob us of our freedons!!" Well, that's not true, and it's not even the first act like that to be passed, see Adams' "Alien and Sedition Acts" and Wilson's acts; Adams' one was "worse" than the Patriot Act. Know what happened to it? It EXPIRED, as the Patriot Act will after terrorism stops beign such a problem

"He embarked on an illegal, unilateral war that the rest of the World dissapproved of!!" McKinley went to war with Spain when no-one else approved and everybody disliked our many wars in Mexico. Unpopular wars are not new.

"He's isolated us from old allies!!" Erm... if we're now not on good terms with these countries, they're isolated, not us. And if you're talking about France, I should remind you that America has been on poor relation with France ofr centuries, we were unnoficialy at war (but there were naval battles) witht them around 1800. We don't need France.

"He's Texan!" No, he's not. He was born in Conneticut (or maybe Massachussets.... one of the two). LBJ and Eisenhower were Texan, though.

If you want to talk about human rights violations, you've got Andrew Jackson and Ulysses S. Grant. Wonderful humanitarians, let me tell you.

Indeed. Andrew Jackson. Can we name any other US presidents that were responsible for marching 4,000 American civilians to death?

Carter hands down.

In his State of the Union Adress he said America was no longer the greatest country in the world.

Let Americans be detained by the Iranians.

Made inflation Rise.

Raised Taxes.

Gutted the Military.

Ronald Reagan Fixed all his mistakes and showed the world America was still the greatest country on Earth.

It's hard for me to rank the worst on as well.

I have read just about every Presidential book there is to read. Plus, I have my own opinions.

I'd have to say the worst failure was Warren G. Harding, corruption and poor leadership on his part. I suppose the corrupt Grant Administration would tie.

In terms of other failures they include: Buchanen, Nixon, Fillmore, Pierce, Carter, and sadly for those who like our incumbent, George W. Bush is also a statistical failure.

I'm going to go a step further, Of the men who were not elected, but were nominated, Horace Greeley would have been the worst (Had he lived).
Some historians say William Jennings Bryan, but I don't think his would have been a complete failure.

In terms of the Best unelected man, Stephen Douglas easily wins, with Adlai Stevenson, Charles Evans Hughes, and Hubert H. Humphrey honorable mentions.

(For those that disagree with me on Humphrey, he couldn't have been worse than Nixon).

It's hard for me to rank the worst on as well.

I have read just about every Presidential book there is to read. Plus, I have my own opinions.

I'd have to say the worst failure was Warren G. Harding, corruption and poor leadership on his part. I suppose the corrupt Grant Administration would tie.

In terms of other failures they include: Buchanen, Nixon, Fillmore, Pierce, Carter, and sadly for those who like our incumbent, George W. Bush is also a statistical failure.

I'm going to go a step further, Of the men who were not elected, but were nominated, Horace Greeley would have been the worst (Had he lived).
Some historians say William Jennings Bryan, but I don't think his would have been a complete failure.

In terms of the Best unelected man, Stephen Douglas easily wins, with Adlai Stevenson, Charles Evans Hughes, and Hubert H. Humphrey honorable mentions.

(For those that disagree with me on Humphrey, he couldn't have been worse than Nixon).

I think RFK would have been a better fit than Humphrey, they were both unelected (RFK was shot and probably would have won the Dem. primaries) and would have been in the '68 election.

I didn't include folks from the Primaries, I'd be here all day explaining my views.

But, I see your point about RFK, and it is duly noted.

I would have liked to see a Wallace/LeMay presidency. Wallace wanted to get rid of foreign aid, clean subversives out of the federal government, win the war in Vietnam, restore states' rights, reverse the trend that saw Americans become "a government-fearing people instead of a God-fearing people," stop giving the communists dignity and aid, etc. Goldwater may have made a decent President, also. But then again, we'll never know...


P.S. Please don't call me 'racist' for liking Wallace. I am not racist, and
neither was he. He was simply a believer in states' rights.

I would have liked to see a Wallace/LeMay presidency. Wallace wanted to get rid of foreign aid, clean subversives out of the federal government, win the war in Vietnam, restore states' rights, reverse the trend that saw Americans become "a government-fearing people instead of a God-fearing people," stop giving the communists dignity and aid, etc. Goldwater may have made a decent President, also. But then again, we'll never know...


P.S. Please don't call me 'racist' for liking Wallace. I am not racist, and
neither was he. He was simply a believer in states' rights.


P.S.2 I wish Robert Taft had been nominated instead of Ike. I think Taft
would have done a good job.

I'd say it's a tie between FDR and Woodrow Wilson, hands down.

Woodrow Wilson, because he: created the Federal Reserve, introduced the income tax, prohibition (it was a good idea, but unconstitutional, because it violated the 10th Amendment by infringing upon states' rights), and the direct election of senators (instead of having them chosen by state legislatures, as the Founders intended), his top advisor (Edward Mandell House) was a Marxist, he favored 'democracy' (government of men) over republican government (government by law), he got us entangled in a foreign conflict that was none of our damn business (contrary to popular belief, he did NOT try to keep the U.S. neutral; read 'The Illusion of Victory,' for more details); tried to get us to join the League of Nations and thus sacrifice our sovereignty; and, most sickening of all, the way he treated Germany. Millions of Germans starved to death, the German economy was in shambles, etc. Were it not for him, there would have been no Nazi Germany or World War II.

Now for the real stinker, FDR. He: changed the U.S. from a constitutional republic based on limited government to a socialist 'democracy,' forever destroyed the dollar by taking us off the gold standard, introduced the unconstitutional Social Security, minimum wage, welfare, etc. (nowhere does the U.S. Constitution authorize the federal government to provide financially for its citizens), drastically prolonged the Great Depression, recognized the U.S.S.R. and provided it with substantial aid (which not only prevented its collapse, but helped it become a military super power), FORCED us into a war that was, again, none of our damn business (look, the Holocaust appals me, too, but the U.S. is NOT the world's globocop) by deliberately letting Pearl Harbor happen (many books provide a staggering amount of evidence to prove this), he greatly prolonged the war in Europe by permitting nothing less than 'absolute surrender' (and would not even support anti-Hitler Germans or Nazis who genuinely wanted to overthrow Hitler and negotiate for peace), betrayed the French at Teheran and the Poles and Chinese at Yalta, forever destroyed feelings of non-interventionism (the correct term, not 'isolationism'), thus setting the stage for Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf War, etc., he allowed innumerable communists and communist sympathizers into the government, he sent all Japanese-Americans to detention camps (which sounds like something the Nazis or Soviets would do), etc., etc...


Umm, first point. Prohibition was not unconstitutional because it was an amendment to the constitution. Next, Wilson did pretty well in reguards to WWI. We could have stayed out of it entirely, but we needed to respond to the sinking of U.S. ships by the navies of the Central Powers. WWI unlike WWII had no clear good guy. Both sides used chemical weapons and the German's did not start the war. The Serbians did with the assassination of an Austrian prince. The Serbians were part of the Allied powers in WWI. Granted, the League of Nations was a terrible idea, but won't make Wilson the worst president ever.

Next, FDR was one of the greatest presidents not the worst. WWII could not have been avoided. If we had stayed in our own isolated corner of the world we still would have had to go to war. Hitler did not just want control of Europe, he wanted the world. We would have lost if we waited any longer than we did. If Britan fell, we would have been screwed. The isolationists wanted the U.S. out of the war and they needed convincing, Pearl Harbor had to happen. I am of a conservative mindset. I see this. Why don't you?

The worst president ever was probably either Carter or Ulysses S. Grant. Carter was just a bad president, and Grant was a drunk. Carter is the reason terrorists think they can get away with anything. That hostage situation did more to damage the image of the U.S. than anything our current president has even thought of doing. Don't get me started on his economic policies either. Lastly, Grant was a womanizing drunk who never did his job.

This has been the viewpoint of a conservative, not a liberal.

I agree with Omni Conglomerates almost completely. I don't know much about Wilson, so I'm not gonna go there, but FDR was an incredible president. During the Great Depression, millions of people were out of jobs and homeless. The Constitution was written to outline what governments could and couldn't do and protect people's rights. Well, people can't have rights if they've died of starvation or exposure to the elements. They needed government assistance to survive. WWII was going to get us sooner or later. FDR didn't decide to go to war, Congress did. And just how was he suposed to stop Pearl Harbor? Also,If he were so horrible, why was he elected 4 times?

Also, communism isn't illegal. You might not like it, but I can be a communist if I want. The benefit of living in a free country.

To Omni Conglomerates, Grant was a drunk, but he was a pretty good general too.

What I meant was that, had the U.S. stayed completely out of Europe and Asia's business, it's doubtful the Japanese would have attacked.
The Japanese were worried that we(Americans) would enter the war against them and planned Pearl Harbor in order to scare us into staying out of the war, so they would have done it anyway. Besides, we can't stay completely out of their way, part of our economy relies on what we export, and we need other places, say Europe or Asia, to sell them to.

He betrayed the Chinese by giving Stalin Manchuria, Mongolia, and a vast number of leftover Japanese arms, which Stalin in turn gave to Mao, and Mao used to defeat our ally, Chiang Kai-shek, and conquer China. He betrayed the French by agreeing (with Stalin) not to let them return to Indochina (I'm not saying they should have returned, though), and giving vast amounts of aid to Ho Chi Minh and his flunkies, even though FDR knew it would eventually be used against our allies, the French.
You're off-base here.
1. USSR had troops in Mongolia since before WWII. It didn't occupy Manchuria--what it got was Chinese acquiesence to a Soviet naval base in Dalian. Furthermore, USSR was on pretty good terms with the Chiang Kai-shek gov't and withdrew troops from China soon after the conclusion of hostilities with the Japanese.
2. The assertion that FDR did not "let" the French to return to Indochina is bizarre, since they did return to Indochina after WWII and fought to hang on to their colonial possessions until 1954. Furthermore, French and American opposition to national liberation movements in Indochina was counterproductive, as it pushed the locals to seek Chinese an Soviet support.

Regarding Wallace, most historians say that he would have become bored in office, because his passion was running for office, not actually serving.

However, he is ranked as average.

I would have liked to see a Stevenson Presidency.

A Bryan Presidency would have been better than Taft. My arguement against the anti-Bryan's is his service as Sec of State was pretty respectable for a man with no qualifications fo that office, anyway,

A Dukakis Presidency would have been interesting, and I am dying to find out how Gore would have done. Probably average at best.

Goldwater and Johnson were equally bad in my opinion, and I wish Humphrey would have gotten the nod then.

Senator Stuart Symington would have been intresting too.

Clinton. Hands down. Nixon was bad, but Clinton did the same thing and had someone killed in the process.

how can any of you idiots not think that George Dubya Bush isnt the worst president? you all make me want to vomit until the lining of my esophagus has corroded to the point where I can no longer talkGo ahead. Noone's stopping ya.

Here's a bibliography of books I would encourage both pro-FDR and anti-FDR people to read:

Infamy: Pearl Harbor and Its Aftermath by John Toland (Garden City, NY:
Doubleday, 1982; Perpetual War For Perpetual Peace, Harry Elmer Barnes, ed.
(Caldwell, ID: Caxton, 1953); Back Door to War, The Roosevelt Foreign Policy,
1933-1941 by Charles Callan; Wall Street and F.D.R. by Antony C. Sutton (New
Rochelle, NY: Arlington House, 1975); "Hearings, House of Representatives,
Select Committee to Investigate Certain Statements of Dr. William Wirt," 73rd
Congress, 2nd Session, April 10 and 17, 1934 (Washington: Government
Printing Office, 1934); The Web of Subversion by James Burnham (Boston:
Western Islands, 1965); Red Scare or Red Menace? American Communism and
Anticommunism in the Cold War Era by John E. Haynes (Chicago: Ivan R. Dee,
1996); A Man Called Intrepid by William Stevenson; Day of Deceit: The Truth
about FDR and Pearl Harbor by World War II Navy veteran Robert B. Stinnett;
The Roosevelt Myth by John T. Flynn; The Final Secret of Pearl Harbor by Rear
Admiral Robert O. Theobald (Old Greenwich, Connecticut: Devin-Adair, 1954);
and FDR’s Folly: How Roosevelt and His New Deal Prolonged the Great
Depression by Jim Powell.


SPECIAL NOTE: Woodrow Wilson bibliography coming soon!!

Worst President ever? I'd say George Washington, Grover Cleveland, Abe Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, and James Monroe.

Washington? Why Washington?

bush. i'm not a fan.

bush. i'm not a fan.

Which Bush? (In my opinion, they're both stinkers)

I'm surprised nobody said Clinton.