NationStates Jolt Archive

Rumors about bin Laden suffering from kidney-related afflictions have been rampant for years. In March 2000, more than a dozen Pakistani religious students offered to donate kidneys to the leader of the al Qaeda network. That same month, a witness to a meeting among bin Laden and his people reported that the terrorist appeared weak and gaunt, coughed frequently, and seemed to become easily exhausted. He also took milk during the meeting instead of the traditional tea.

We regularly hear poor quality audio tapes attributed to Osama bin Laden in which he threatens the United States and anyone who sides with them, but why does the leader of al Qaeda never show his face these days? Has he become shy, or could it be that he's 'pushing up daisies' in Afghanistan and the tapes are faked?

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osama_dead.html

Could Bin Laden really have organised 9/11 from a cave in Afghanistan, complete with a dialysis machine, which is the size of a room and which he supposedly needed to use every 3 days-

If he did by some miracle happen to have such a well equipped cave, how would it escape the notice of the Hi-Tech equipment used by US military?

The plot thickens...

I remember reading loads of reports a while ago that bin laden was treated for kidney problems at an AMERICAN hospital in Dubai in the UAE in july of 2001

Of course everybody denied it but theres no smoke without fire, especially when the same story keeps surfacing

I don't think that he was the operational head of al-Qaeda. He was more of the spiritual leader who simply gave the final word for everything.
And is bin Laden still alive? There should be no doubt, or else his organization would start to crumble. bin Laden probably isn't hiding in a cave, but rather in a house somewhere in Pakistan, on the Afghan border. It's tribal area there, and no Pakistani troops are allowed up there unless they have a clearly defined mission. Otherwise, the area is in the hands of tribal militias, most of whom are loyal to al-Qaeda. He probably can't go outside without being detected, but he probably can keep himself alive.

Some news sources regarding the above post:

http://www.afgha.com/?af=article&sid=12063

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A11730-2002Feb1&notFound=true

Those pictures in the link thats on the original post of this thread really say it all!

I don't think that he was the operational head of al-Qaeda. He was more of the spiritual leader who simply gave the final word for everything.
And is bin Laden still alive? There should be no doubt, or else his organization would start to crumble. bin Laden probably isn't hiding in a cave, but rather in a house somewhere in Pakistan, on the Afghan border. It's tribal area there, and no Pakistani troops are allowed up there unless they have a clearly defined mission. Otherwise, the area is in the hands of tribal militias, most of whom are loyal to al-Qaeda. He probably can't go outside without being detected, but he probably can keep himself alive.

Or Saudi Arabia?

Actually, Euclid, Bin Laden was indeed the operational head of al-Qaeda and formed it in the late 80s after splitting with the Afghanistan [i]mujaheddin[i] group that he helped form, the MAK. Al-Qaeda, or "The Base", was formed from the more militant portions of MAK under Bin Laden's direction and was designed to serve as a training and finance group for terrorist organizations throughout the Middle East. They train the groups, the groups then go out and perform their actions and take credit for them. Since then, it has taken on a more, for lack of a better word, "spiritual" connontation which is why Bin Laden's death is at best a mere stumble and at worse irrelevant to the organization as a whole.

So The entire might of the US military machine levels Afghanistan for harbouring Bin Laden and then just forgets about it because he runs into Pakistan? Seems unlikely
And if so, then why not then invade Pakistan?

Bin laden is probably dead either through kidney failure or by the the bombings of the Tora-Bora cave complex.

The only reason the myth is perpetuated is to retain a bogeyman for the Bush administration to use as a face to instil fear to the US population so that it can it justify its so-called war on terror

While we're at it... there is also some speculation that the man pulled out of a hole in Baghdad wasn't Saddam at all...

Easy enough to put down to being yet another conspiracy theory, but the story has some weight added when Saddams own family (now living in Jordan) say that it isn't

http://joevialls.altermedia.info/subliminalsuggestion/saddamscam.html

Actually, Euclid, Bin Laden was indeed the operational head of al-Qaeda and formed it in the late 80s after splitting with the Afghanistan [i]mujaheddin[i] group that he helped form, the MAK. Al-Qaeda, or "The Base", was formed from the more militant portions of MAK under Bin Laden's direction and was designed to serve as a training and finance group for terrorist organizations throughout the Middle East. They train the groups, the groups then go out and perform their actions and take credit for them. Since then, it has taken on a more, for lack of a better word, "spiritual" connontation which is why Bin Laden's death is at best a mere stumble and at worse irrelevant to the organization as a whole.
However, bin Laden's underlings don't seem to know that. He's heaped himself with titles like "the Emir", suggesting that he really is running the show. In any case, I do feel that the two most important captures would be the men who really planned the dirty work: Ayman al-Zawahiri and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (now in US custody).
BTW, al-Qaeda was little more than a mouthpiece back in the eighties. Its former leader (forgot his name), spent most of the time preaching his message throughout Pakistan. However, bin Laden was a bit of an arms dealer, and some feel he supplied the bombs for the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993.

I don't think that he was the operational head of al-Qaeda. He was more of the spiritual leader who simply gave the final word for everything.
And is bin Laden still alive? There should be no doubt, or else his organization would start to crumble. bin Laden probably isn't hiding in a cave, but rather in a house somewhere in Pakistan, on the Afghan border. It's tribal area there, and no Pakistani troops are allowed up there unless they have a clearly defined mission. Otherwise, the area is in the hands of tribal militias, most of whom are loyal to al-Qaeda. He probably can't go outside without being detected, but he probably can keep himself alive.

Or Saudi Arabia?
I doubt it. The Saudis may have found him by now. In a country that is in a perpetual state of martial law, it's easy for Saudi security forces to spot a tall, thin man on dialysis in their midst.

However, bin Laden's underlings don't seem to know that. He's heaped himself with titles like "the Emir", suggesting that he really is running the show. In any case, I do feel that the two most important captures would be the men who really planned the dirty work: Ayman al-Zawahiri and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (now in US custody).

True, as far as it goes. Al-Qaeda and bin Laden are still intimiately attached, since he created it and still serves as it's head.


BTW, al-Qaeda was little more than a mouthpiece back in the eighties. Its former leader (forgot his name), spent most of the time preaching his message throughout Pakistan. However, bin Laden was a bit of an arms dealer, and some feel he supplied the bombs for the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993.

Actually, no, that's not correct. Bin Laden founded Al-Qaeda in 1988 when he split from the MAK. The purpose of Al-Qaeda was to establish terrorist training bases, secure funds for actions and provide a centralized source for terrorist opperations in the Middle East which, incidentally, was the same thing Bin Laden had been doing during the U.S.S.R.'s invasion of Afghanistan in the 80s...but with CIA and Pakistani Intelligence support, funding and training. Al-Qaeda was initally never intended to be the "action" arm of the [i]mujaheddin[i]. Instead, it provided the manpower to the different groups that committed the actions. Over the course of the 90s, with bombings like the 1993 World Trade Center, Al-Qaeda emerged as the most centrally identifiable and unchanging organization in the constantly shifting mass of terror organizations and has come to represent a much larger body of action than it truly had direct control over.

However, bin Laden's underlings don't seem to know that. He's heaped himself with titles like "the Emir", suggesting that he really is running the show. In any case, I do feel that the two most important captures would be the men who really planned the dirty work: Ayman al-Zawahiri and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (now in US custody).

True, as far as it goes. Al-Qaeda and bin Laden are still intimiately attached, since he created it and still serves as it's head.


BTW, al-Qaeda was little more than a mouthpiece back in the eighties. Its former leader (forgot his name), spent most of the time preaching his message throughout Pakistan. However, bin Laden was a bit of an arms dealer, and some feel he supplied the bombs for the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993.

Actually, no, that's not correct. Bin Laden founded Al-Qaeda in 1988 when he split from the MAK. The purpose of Al-Qaeda was to establish terrorist training bases, secure funds for actions and provide a centralized source for terrorist opperations in the Middle East which, incidentally, was the same thing Bin Laden had been doing during the U.S.S.R.'s invasion of Afghanistan in the 80s...but with CIA and Pakistani Intelligence support, funding and training. Al-Qaeda was initally never intended to be the "action" arm of the mujaheddin. Instead, it provided the manpower to the different groups that committed the actions. Over the course of the 90s, with bombings like the 1993 World Trade Center, Al-Qaeda emerged as the most centrally identifiable and unchanging organization in the constantly shifting mass of terror organizations and has come to represent a much larger body of action than it truly had direct control over.

So is it safe to say then that we all agree that bin laden is most probably dead and is only being utilised for propaganda purposes?

If I read it right, it's also being suggested that Osama isn't really the main man in Al-Queda but is only a figurehead?

However, bin Laden's underlings don't seem to know that. He's heaped himself with titles like "the Emir", suggesting that he really is running the show. In any case, I do feel that the two most important captures would be the men who really planned the dirty work: Ayman al-Zawahiri and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (now in US custody).

True, as far as it goes. Al-Qaeda and bin Laden are still intimiately attached, since he created it and still serves as it's head.


BTW, al-Qaeda was little more than a mouthpiece back in the eighties. Its former leader (forgot his name), spent most of the time preaching his message throughout Pakistan. However, bin Laden was a bit of an arms dealer, and some feel he supplied the bombs for the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993.

Actually, no, that's not correct. Bin Laden founded Al-Qaeda in 1988 when he split from the MAK. The purpose of Al-Qaeda was to establish terrorist training bases, secure funds for actions and provide a centralized source for terrorist opperations in the Middle East which, incidentally, was the same thing Bin Laden had been doing during the U.S.S.R.'s invasion of Afghanistan in the 80s...but with CIA and Pakistani Intelligence support, funding and training. Al-Qaeda was initally never intended to be the "action" arm of the [i]mujaheddin[i]. Instead, it provided the manpower to the different groups that committed the actions. Over the course of the 90s, with bombings like the 1993 World Trade Center, Al-Qaeda emerged as the most centrally identifiable and unchanging organization in the constantly shifting mass of terror organizations and has come to represent a much larger body of action than it truly had direct control over.
Well, I knew that bin Laden did work for the MAK. I think, though, that at the beginning, al-Qaeda, as you said, was involved in much smaller operations. Besides, al-Zawahiri and Mohammed were with al-Qaeda for a long time. bin Laden always got out of the dirty work.

Rumors are rumors. Real information is close to impossible for us as the general public to have at this point, so this is really just speculation.
So yes, he may be dead, as anyone may be dead right now.

Osama is either dead, or hiding in a cave in the middle of nowhere, because if he pops his head out of the sand, he's going to get an AK-47 unloaded into his gut by somebody. At least i hope.

Rumors are rumors. Real information is close to impossible for us as the general public to have at this point, so this is really just speculation.
So yes, he may be dead, as anyone may be dead right now.

That is agressively Zen. :D

Rumors are rumors. Real information is close to impossible for us as the general public to have at this point, so this is really just speculation.
So yes, he may be dead, as anyone may be dead right now.

That is agressively Zen. :D

Huh? How could Zen be aggressive? :shock: