NationStates Jolt Archive

I was looking thru the Houston Chronicle this morning, and came scross two editorials that really say it all about Ronald Reagan...

One

Two American icons passed away in the last two weeks. We owe much to Ray Charles for his music. And, thanks to Ronald Reagan, we owe much - period. M.T. - Houston (I am choosing to publish only initials of the authors, unlike the paper, which published their whole names.)

Two

When I think of Ronald Reagan, I remember him supporting a proposal to classify ketchup as a vegetable while making budget cuts on Federally financed school-lunch programs. I remember him actively backing the fascist regimes in Central America that were supported by death squads responsible for murdering tend of thousands of innocent civilians. I will remember him as the architect of the largest expansion of federal government and the largest growth in national debt that had ever occurred.
I remember him managing an average unemployment rate of 7.5 percent over the course of his Presidency.
I remember him as authorizing the illegal funding of the Contras in Nicaragua through profits from secret weapons sales to Iran, a country the United States had denounced as a terrorist nation.
But mostly I remember him for putting into motion the political and economic doctrines that today are directly responsible for the fragility of the American economy, the unbridled corruption of American corporations and the increasing hatred of much of the world for the United States. S.R. - Richmond

Two these two editorials, I can only add a hearty AMEN!! These guys hit the nail dead-solid perfect! And, with regards to Reagan wanting to classify ketchup as a vegetable, that has an eerily familiar ring in the modern day, with Bush suggesting jobs at McDonald's being classified as "manufacturing jobs" ... after all, they are manufacturing hamburgers, right? All that in an effort to hide the fact that the manufacturing sector has been badly hurt by this Administration, and to paint a rosier picture of the economy, in time for the election. Again, I say...when a JOB HUNTER says the economy is getting better, THEN I'll believe it. Till then, the Bush butt-kissers can, in the classic words of Charlie Brown, tell their statistics to SHUT UP!!

Hes dead, LEAVE HIM ALONE.
http://wald.heim.at/urwald/541469/schnappschuesse/dead-horse.jpg
STOP FLOGGING IT!

Hes dead, LEAVE HIM ALONE.
...
STOP FLOGGING IT!

I think it's fair for liberals to keep criticizing Reagan as long as conservatives are trying to use Reagan (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1963&e=37&u=/ap/20040616/ap_on_el_pr/campaign_ad_reagan_6&sid=96378798) to help elect Bush:

WASHINGTON - Days after Ronald Reagan was laid to rest, a conservative interest group on Tuesday unveiled a campaign ad that aligns him with President Bush and criticizes Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry.

And what does the Reagan family think of this? Well, they're not thrilled.

The Reagan family's spokeswoman said Tuesday that permission is needed for anyone to use Reagan's likeness in an ad because doing so implies that he endorsed one candidate over another.

"No one has requested the permission to use his image in an ad, nor would we feel it appropriate to give such permission at this juncture," Joanne Drake said. "We protect his image very carefully, particularly as it relates to politics."

He may well be dead, but we are still living with the economic reprecussions of his Presidency, so, no, I will NOT leave him alone!! He has hurt me, personally, very badly, and I'll not forgive him for it.

He hurt me, economically, during his Presidency...and his policies, set the stage for what has followed...and to this day, cause me economic hardship. I will never forgive, nor will I ever forget.

He hurt me, and I hope he has met his Maker, and been held accountable by a higher authority for his wicked, heartless, mean-spirited policies.

I will never forgive, nor forget, Reagonomics, and the concept of "trickle-down economics" which, in actuality, ought to be called "tinkle-down economics" as in, PISS ON YOU, POOR PEOPLE!!

His whole concept of "baking a bigger pie" so everyone got more has worked wonders for us as a country, though, hasn't it?? In the old days, I got one crumb of the pie, while the rich and greedy got a WHOLE SLICE of the pie. Now, thanks to Reaganomics, I get TWO crumbs...and the wealthy want to take one of those crumbs away from me...while they now get THREE WHOLE SLICES of the bigger pie!!

PHUCK REAGAN!!!!

He may well be dead, but we are still living with the economic reprecussions of his Presidency, so, no, I will NOT leave him alone!! He has hurt me, personally, very badly, and I'll not forgive him for it.

He hurt me, economically, during his Presidency...and his policies, set the stage for what has followed...and to this day, cause me economic hardship. I will never forgive, nor will I ever forget.

He hurt me, and I hope he has met his Maker, and been held accountable by a higher authority for his wicked, heartless, mean-spirited policies.

What economic repercussions? state where your getting your facts.

He may well be dead, but we are still living with the economic reprecussions of his Presidency, so, no, I will NOT leave him alone!! He has hurt me, personally, very badly, and I'll not forgive him for it.What did he go to your house and call you names?

Hes dead, LEAVE HIM ALONE.
http://wald.heim.at/urwald/541469/schnappschuesse/dead-horse.jpg
STOP FLOGGING IT!I think that calling harping on over Reagan "flogging a dead horse" is just going to add more fuel to the fire.

Hes dead, LEAVE HIM ALONE.
http://wald.heim.at/urwald/541469/schnappschuesse/dead-horse.jpg
STOP FLOGGING IT!

LOL, that sounds so sexual :P .

Anyway, why can't we just leave the poor guy alone? He did what he thought best for his country at the time, and we can at least respect him for it.

He may well be dead, but we are still living with the economic reprecussions of his Presidency, so, no, I will NOT leave him alone!! He has hurt me, personally, very badly, and I'll not forgive him for it.What did he go to your house and call you names?

No. Read from the second editorial. I'll post it here to make it simple for you, since you are so obviously unwilling to READ the whole thing, just because you disagree with it...typical of conservo-creeps, by the way...


But mostly I remember him for putting into motion the political and economic doctrines that today are directly responsible for the fragility of the American economy, the unbridled corruption of American corporations...

You didn't write this article. How was I suppose to know that that hurt you?

He may well be dead, but we are still living with the economic reprecussions of his Presidency, so, no, I will NOT leave him alone!! He has hurt me, personally, very badly, and I'll not forgive him for it.What did he go to your house and call you names?

No. Read from the second editorial. I'll post it here to make it simple for you, since you are so obviously unwilling to READ the whole thing, just because you disagree with it...typical of conservo-creeps, by the way...


But mostly I remember him for putting into motion the political and economic doctrines that today are directly responsible for the fragility of the American economy, the unbridled corruption of American corporations...

if that second line isn't liberal lie, I'll eat my bra. Sounds like this Houston Chornical didn't like Reagan. Fine get over it. He's dead! Let the poor man rest.

Hes dead, LEAVE HIM ALONE.
http://wald.heim.at/urwald/541469/schnappschuesse/dead-horse.jpg
STOP FLOGGING IT!

LOL, that sounds so sexual :P .

Anyway, why can't we just leave the poor guy alone? He did what he thought best for his country at the time, and we can at least respect him for it.

No. He did what he thought was best for the wealthiest Americans, and gave a shit about the poor, the disenfranchised, the exploited and abused people of the lower socio-economic clases. His policies supported the ruthless exploitation and abuse to the working class, to the benefit of only the wealthy! And for that, I hold him in utter contempt. same as he held for me and MY people.
He held us in utter contempt.
And, I will also never forgive his refusal to do anything about the AIDS crisis when it first started happening. Some people I knew and loved might have been saved, had research started sooner.

Hes dead, LEAVE HIM ALONE.
http://wald.heim.at/urwald/541469/schnappschuesse/dead-horse.jpg
STOP FLOGGING IT!

LOL, that sounds so sexual :P .

Anyway, why can't we just leave the poor guy alone? He did what he thought best for his country at the time, and we can at least respect him for it.

No. He did what he thought was best for the wealthiest Americans, and gave a shit about the poor, the disenfranchised, the exploited and abused people of the lower socio-economic clases. His policies supported the ruthless exploitation and abuse to the working class, to the benefit of only the wealthy! And for that, I hold him in utter contempt. same as he held for me and MY people.
He held us in utter contempt.
And, I will also never forgive his refusal to do anything about the AIDS crisis when it first started happening. Some people I knew and loved might have been saved, had research started sooner.

Bleeding heart liberal Alert has been issued. (giggles! always wanted to say that! To much morning radio talk show for me here.)

Typical liberal speech. Anytime someone cuts taxes, its always for the wealthy wealthy and wealthy. THEY PAY THE MOST TAXES GUYS! When they pay a high tax, business suffers. when they don't Business Blooms. Standard Economics. (thanks mom for telling me this)

He may well be dead, but we are still living with the economic reprecussions of his Presidency, so, no, I will NOT leave him alone!! He has hurt me, personally, very badly, and I'll not forgive him for it.What did he go to your house and call you names?

No. Read from the second editorial. I'll post it here to make it simple for you, since you are so obviously unwilling to READ the whole thing, just because you disagree with it...typical of conservo-creeps, by the way...


But mostly I remember him for putting into motion the political and economic doctrines that today are directly responsible for the fragility of the American economy, the unbridled corruption of American corporations...

if that second line isn't liberal lie, I'll eat my bra. Sounds like this Houston Chornical didn't like Reagan. Fine get over it. He's dead! Let the poor man rest.

Typical moronic conservo-creep! This comes from the EDITORIAL PAGE...which, as you may not be aware...but the contents of that page reflect the opinions of the AUTHORS of the letters, and not necessarily the paper in which they are printed. I personally salute the Chronicle for giving equal time on the Editorial Page, for those who have "unpopular" opinions.

You, on the other hand, want to jump to the conclusion that the Chronicle doesn't like Reagan, because they gave equal time to two writers who have disparaging opinions of the former President.

I guess it's true...conservo-creeps really DO believe that anyone who doesn't march in lock-step with them is an enemy that must be utterly destroyed...
Sad, I remember the days of the Rockefeller Republicans...those, at least, were people you could work with, even if you disagreed with them. Guys like McCain, Jeffords, Lincoln Chafee, Arlen Specter, Barry Goldwater...the blue-bloods. But the neo-cons have completely taken over the GOP now, and have turned it into a party of unfeeling, uncaring, intolerant selfish, mean-spirited monsters. Too bad, so sad.

Typical liberal speech. Anytime someone cuts taxes, its always for the wealthy wealthy and wealthy. THEY PAY THE MOST TAXES GUYS! When they pay a high tax, business suffers. when they don't Business Blooms. Standard Economics. (thanks mom for telling me this)I find it amazing how this little snippet of doctrine, which defys both common sense and every example where its been tried, I find it amazing how this still is accepted by the right as Gospel.

Lower taxes = reduced public services = more money for the rich and less for the poor = reduced economic growth because the impovrished masses don't have any spare cash to spend.

I'm not sure, but getting political beliefs from yo momma is not typically something you go on.

Hes dead, LEAVE HIM ALONE.
http://wald.heim.at/urwald/541469/schnappschuesse/dead-horse.jpg
STOP FLOGGING IT!

LOL, that sounds so sexual :P .

Anyway, why can't we just leave the poor guy alone? He did what he thought best for his country at the time, and we can at least respect him for it.

No. He did what he thought was best for the wealthiest Americans, and gave a shit about the poor, the disenfranchised, the exploited and abused people of the lower socio-economic clases. His policies supported the ruthless exploitation and abuse to the working class, to the benefit of only the wealthy! And for that, I hold him in utter contempt. same as he held for me and MY people.
He held us in utter contempt.
And, I will also never forgive his refusal to do anything about the AIDS crisis when it first started happening. Some people I knew and loved might have been saved, had research started sooner.

Bleeding heart liberal Alert has been issued. (giggles! always wanted to say that! To much morning radio talk show for me here.)

Typical liberal speech. Anytime someone cuts taxes, its always for the wealthy wealthy and wealthy. THEY PAY THE MOST TAXES GUYS! When they pay a high tax, business suffers. when they don't Business Blooms. Standard Economics. (thanks mom for telling me this)

Yeah, surrre. "A rising tide lifts all boats," right? Well, what about those who DON'T HAVE A FRIGGIN' BOAT?!!? Those who are clinging, by their fingernails, to whatever rock they might manage to get hold of? what abot those whose boats are anchored down, by evil rotten corporations who want to screw over workers by cutting wages, and shipping jobs overseas? sometimes, that rising tide cause SOME peoples boats to founder....

Typical moronic conservo-creep! This comes from the EDITORIAL PAGE...which, as you may not be aware...but the contents of that page reflect the opinions of the AUTHORS of the letters, and not necessarily the paper in which they are printed. I personally salute the Chronicle for giving equal time on the Editorial Page, for those who have "unpopular" opinions.

You, on the other hand, want to jump to the conclusion that the Chronicle doesn't like Reagan, because they gave equal time to two writers who have disparaging opinions of the former President.

I guess it's true...conservo-creeps really DO believe that anyone who doesn't march in lock-step with them is an enemy that must be utterly destroyed...
Sad, I remember the days of the Rockefeller Republicans...those, at least, were people you could work with, even if you disagreed with them. Guys like McCain, Jeffords, Lincoln Chafee, Arlen Specter, Barry Goldwater...the blue-bloods. But the neo-cons have completely taken over the GOP now, and have turned it into a party of unfeeling, uncaring, intolerant selfish, mean-spirited monsters. Too bad, so sad.

They maybe an editorial but your spouting it like it was factual. read your own line, contents of that page reflect the opinions of the AUTHORS of the letters

Yes I don't mind if they have opposite views, I applaude them for doing so too, but what I don't like is you spouting it as if it shows the world on how bad Reagan was. He was one of the BEST presidents we've ever had.

I should have expected something like this from a nation named after a breed of dog.

Typical moronic conservo-creep! This comes from the EDITORIAL PAGE...which, as you may not be aware...but the contents of that page reflect the opinions of the AUTHORS of the letters, and not necessarily the paper in which they are printed. I personally salute the Chronicle for giving equal time on the Editorial Page, for those who have "unpopular" opinions.

You, on the other hand, want to jump to the conclusion that the Chronicle doesn't like Reagan, because they gave equal time to two writers who have disparaging opinions of the former President.

I guess it's true...conservo-creeps really DO believe that anyone who doesn't march in lock-step with them is an enemy that must be utterly destroyed...
Sad, I remember the days of the Rockefeller Republicans...those, at least, were people you could work with, even if you disagreed with them. Guys like McCain, Jeffords, Lincoln Chafee, Arlen Specter, Barry Goldwater...the blue-bloods. But the neo-cons have completely taken over the GOP now, and have turned it into a party of unfeeling, uncaring, intolerant selfish, mean-spirited monsters. Too bad, so sad.

They maybe an editorial but your spouting it like it was factual. read your own line, contents of that page reflect the opinions of the AUTHORS of the letters

Yes I don't mind if they have opposite views, I applaude them for doing so too, but what I don't like is you spouting it as if it shows the world on how bad Reagan was. He was one of the BEST presidents we've ever had.

I should have expected something like this from a nation named after a breed of dog.

I NEVER once presented it as fact...READ THE FRIGGIN SUBJECT LINE..."Two EDITORIALS...."
I came out and STATED they were editorials...

Read from my very first post on this thread...

I was looking thru the Houston Chronicle this morning, and came scross two editorials that really say it all about Ronald Reagan...
Bolds added to make my point.

Just goes to show, you refuse to read anything you do not agree with, like the typical comnservo-creep.

Since WHEN did I EVER present this as anything other than editorial? I just happen to agree with the editorials, and I stated so.

And, exactly what does my nation being named after a breed of dog have anything to do with my political views?

I was looking thru the Houston Chronicle this morning, and came scross two editorials that really say it all about Ronald Reagan...

One

Two American icons passed away in the last two weeks. We owe much to Ray Charles for his music. And, thanks to Ronald Reagan, we owe much - period. M.T. - Houston (I am choosing to publish only initials of the authors, unlike the paper, which published their whole names.)

Two

When I think of Ronald Reagan, I remember him supporting a proposal to classify ketchup as a vegetable while making budget cuts on Federally financed school-lunch programs. I remember him actively backing the fascist regimes in Central America that were supported by death squads responsible for murdering tend of thousands of innocent civilians. I will remember him as the architect of the largest expansion of federal government and the largest growth in national debt that had ever occurred.
I remember him managing an average unemployment rate of 7.5 percent over the course of his Presidency.
I remember him as authorizing the illegal funding of the Contras in Nicaragua through profits from secret weapons sales to Iran, a country the United States had denounced as a terrorist nation.
But mostly I remember him for putting into motion the political and economic doctrines that today are directly responsible for the fragility of the American economy, the unbridled corruption of American corporations and the increasing hatred of much of the world for the United States. S.R. - Richmond

Two these two editorials, I can only add a hearty AMEN!! These guys hit the nail dead-solid perfect! And, with regards to Reagan wanting to classify ketchup as a vegetable, that has an eerily familiar ring in the modern day, with Bush suggesting jobs at McDonald's being classified as "manufacturing jobs" ... after all, they are manufacturing hamburgers, right? All that in an effort to hide the fact that the manufacturing sector has been badly hurt by this Administration, and to paint a rosier picture of the economy, in time for the election. Again, I say...when a JOB HUNTER says the economy is getting better, THEN I'll believe it. Till then, the Bush butt-kissers can, in the classic words of Charlie Brown, tell their statistics to SHUT UP!!Why do you spew so much hatred about for conservatives? Why do you curse, and spew out invective against those who do not share your world view?

I like that photo enough to add one of my own.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/freecat.jpg

Hes dead, LEAVE HIM ALONE.
http://wald.heim.at/urwald/541469/schnappschuesse/dead-horse.jpg
STOP FLOGGING IT!

LOL, that sounds so sexual :P .

Anyway, why can't we just leave the poor guy alone? He did what he thought best for his country at the time, and we can at least respect him for it.no we cant cause he did bad things

I was looking thru the Houston Chronicle this morning, and came scross two editorials that really say it all about Ronald Reagan...

One

Two American icons passed away in the last two weeks. We owe much to Ray Charles for his music. And, thanks to Ronald Reagan, we owe much - period. M.T. - Houston (I am choosing to publish only initials of the authors, unlike the paper, which published their whole names.)

Two

When I think of Ronald Reagan, I remember him supporting a proposal to classify ketchup as a vegetable while making budget cuts on Federally financed school-lunch programs. I remember him actively backing the fascist regimes in Central America that were supported by death squads responsible for murdering tend of thousands of innocent civilians. I will remember him as the architect of the largest expansion of federal government and the largest growth in national debt that had ever occurred.
I remember him managing an average unemployment rate of 7.5 percent over the course of his Presidency.
I remember him as authorizing the illegal funding of the Contras in Nicaragua through profits from secret weapons sales to Iran, a country the United States had denounced as a terrorist nation.
But mostly I remember him for putting into motion the political and economic doctrines that today are directly responsible for the fragility of the American economy, the unbridled corruption of American corporations and the increasing hatred of much of the world for the United States. S.R. - Richmond

Two these two editorials, I can only add a hearty AMEN!! These guys hit the nail dead-solid perfect! And, with regards to Reagan wanting to classify ketchup as a vegetable, that has an eerily familiar ring in the modern day, with Bush suggesting jobs at McDonald's being classified as "manufacturing jobs" ... after all, they are manufacturing hamburgers, right? All that in an effort to hide the fact that the manufacturing sector has been badly hurt by this Administration, and to paint a rosier picture of the economy, in time for the election. Again, I say...when a JOB HUNTER says the economy is getting better, THEN I'll believe it. Till then, the Bush butt-kissers can, in the classic words of Charlie Brown, tell their statistics to SHUT UP!!Why do you spew so much hatred about for conservatives? Why do you curse, and spew out invective against those who do not share your world view?

Because you are evil rotten mean selfish people that love to see poor people starve! That's why!

If they're so hungry, they can work at McDonalds. I know mine is now hiring.

If they're so hungry, they can work at McDonalds. I know mine is now hiring.

And that is PRECISELY the sort of smart-assed answer you conservo-creeps come out with that piss me off even more!!

YOU try making ends meet on what phucking McDonald's pays, you conservo-creep!! GODDAM IT, YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW BADLY YOU PISS ME THE PHUCK OFF!!!

Oh, wait, I forgot...that's a PHUCKING MANUFACTURING JOB NOW!! That means the pay went up, right? (sarcasm)

Lab, please, calm down

Hmmm, though, this got me wondering...
How many vegetables are there on a Whopper? (I'm using Whopper, because Big Macs don't come automatically with the particular "vegetable" I have in mind, before you say Whoppers are Burger King, smart ass)

Whoppers have...

Lettuce
Pickles
Onions
Tomatoes

AND

of course, the most important vegetable of all...PHUCKING KETCHUP!!

Five veggies on a Whopper.

Rant over indeed...anyway, if they worked full time at McDonalds, they could pull in 6*40 = 240 dollars a week or about $12,000 a year. That's enough to rent a $300 dollar apartment and eat, while they look for a real job.

Lab, please, calm down

I'm sorry, Spoffin..I can't! you have NO IDEA how badly these goddam right-wingers piss me the hell off!!

Rant over indeed...anyway, if they worked full time at McDonalds, they could pull in 6*40 = 240 dollars a week or about $12,000 a year. That's enough to rent a $300 dollar apartment and eat, while they look for a real job.

Yeah...find me a $300 apartment, smart ass

AND...most who work at McDonald's DO NOT get full-time hours, either...so there's another fallacy in your assholish argument. You can take that and stick it where the sun don't shine!

Hmmm, though, this got me wondering...
How many vegetables are there on a Whopper? (I'm using Whopper, because Big Macs don't come automatically with the particular "vegetable" I have in mind, before you say Whoppers are Burger King, smart ass)

Whoppers have...

Lettuce
Pickles
Onions
Tomatoes

AND

of course, the most important vegetable of all...PHUCKING KETCHUP!!

Five veggies on a Whopper.
You're right, this is relevant to debate as to whether or not Reagan was a good or bad President, or whether or not poor people can work at McDonalds. Keep trolling Lab.

Rant over indeed...anyway, if they worked full time at McDonalds, they could pull in 6*40 = 240 dollars a week or about $12,000 a year. That's enough to rent a $300 dollar apartment and eat, while they look for a real job.

Yeah...find me a $300 apartment, smart ass
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=apartment+%24300&btnG=Google+Search

Hmmm, though, this got me wondering...
How many vegetables are there on a Whopper? (I'm using Whopper, because Big Macs don't come automatically with the particular "vegetable" I have in mind, before you say Whoppers are Burger King, smart ass)

Whoppers have...

Lettuce
Pickles
Onions
Tomatoes

AND

of course, the most important vegetable of all...PHUCKING KETCHUP!!

Five veggies on a Whopper.
You're right, this is relevant to debate as to whether or not Reagan was a good or bad President, or whether or not poor people can work at McDonalds. Keep trolling Lab.

Piss off.
You ain't worth it. i'm going to find something to do where I don't have to see phucking conservo-creeps for a while! Before I have to pop more blood-pressure meds.

He may well be dead, but we are still living with the economic reprecussions of his Presidency, so, no, I will NOT leave him alone!! He has hurt me, personally, very badly, and I'll not forgive him for it.What did he go to your house and call you names?

No. Read from the second editorial. I'll post it here to make it simple for you, since you are so obviously unwilling to READ the whole thing, just because you disagree with it...typical of conservo-creeps, by the way...


But mostly I remember him for putting into motion the political and economic doctrines that today are directly responsible for the fragility of the American economy, the unbridled corruption of American corporations...

if that second line isn't liberal lie, I'll eat my bra. Sounds like this Houston Chornical didn't like Reagan. Fine get over it. He's dead! Let the poor man rest.

Typical moronic conservo-creep! This comes from the EDITORIAL PAGE...which, as you may not be aware...but the contents of that page reflect the opinions of the AUTHORS of the letters, and not necessarily the paper in which they are printed. I personally salute the Chronicle for giving equal time on the Editorial Page, for those who have "unpopular" opinions.

You, on the other hand, want to jump to the conclusion that the Chronicle doesn't like Reagan, because they gave equal time to two writers who have disparaging opinions of the former President.

I guess it's true...conservo-creeps really DO believe that anyone who doesn't march in lock-step with them is an enemy that must be utterly destroyed...
Sad, I remember the days of the Rockefeller Republicans...those, at least, were people you could work with, even if you disagreed with them. Guys like McCain, Jeffords, Lincoln Chafee, Arlen Specter, Barry Goldwater...the blue-bloods. But the neo-cons have completely taken over the GOP now, and have turned it into a party of unfeeling, uncaring, intolerant selfish, mean-spirited monsters. Too bad, so sad.

Go easy on Formal Dances , she's just a kid. Give her time to grow up.. then maybe she'll understand what's she's talking about more then just spouting what her parents say.

Rant over indeed...anyway, if they worked full time at McDonalds, they could pull in 6*40 = 240 dollars a week or about $12,000 a year. That's enough to rent a $300 dollar apartment and eat, while they look for a real job.

Yeah...find me a $300 apartment, smart ass
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=apartment+%24300&btnG=Google+Search

smart-ass again. find one for $300 a month in AUSTIN, TEXAS...WHERE I ACTUALLY LIVE, SMART ASS

Rant over indeed...anyway, if they worked full time at McDonalds, they could pull in 6*40 = 240 dollars a week or about $12,000 a year. That's enough to rent a $300 dollar apartment and eat, while they look for a real job.

Yeah...find me a $300 apartment, smart ass
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=apartment+%24300&btnG=Google+Search

smart-ass again. find one for $300 a month in AUSTIN, TEXAS...WHERE I ACTUALLY LIVE, SMART ASS
You're just like all the indigent, you want the rich to do all your work for you.

Formal Dances, I understand you are young, so you may not remember the Reagan administration like those of us who actually lived through it. While I don't think it's appropriate to beat on the corpse of a dead man who (I believe) truly did do what he thought was best for the country, I also don't think the "sainthood" treatment that Reagan has received since his death is deserved or justified. Even historians don't consider him to be all that great a President, putting him somewhere in the middle. As for facts about the Regan Administration and it's legacies, let's take a look at them.

Federal Law:

1. The Draft: In 1981, Casper Weinberger, then Secretary of Defence, prevailed upon Reagan to keep draft registration. While this may seem small, the idea that conscription is still possible and accepted in a country that prides itself on individual freedom and liberty is paradoxical at best.

2. Tax Cuts: Also in 1981, Reagan slashed taxes across the board. In 1982, the country hit a deep recession. Now, it can be argued that this was eventually inevitable due to irresponsible fiscal accounting from the previous two decades of both Republican and Democratic partisan politics, the fact is Reagan did nothing to soften the blow.

3. Deregulation: Both of the country's major industries as well as airlines, trucking and train shipments. Ask any air craft controller what they think about Reagan and you'll get quite an earful. Also, the telecommunications industry was deregulated under his watch, although it is arguable that this would have happened anyway. The firing of 13,000 air traffic controllers in 1981 and the appointment of union-hostile members to his National Labor Relations Board effectively spelled the end of Union power in this country.

4. End of oil price controls: Again in 1981, Reagan brought this to a screaming halt.

The War On Drugs:

1. Expansion of legal powers: In an effort to fight his "War on Drugs", Reagan's federal government passed a series of "crime bills" which expanded the powers of attorneys and the federal government to imprison suspects on flimsy evidence and sieze property as they liked. The federalization of drug offences gave the government a chance to do a runaround around the Constitution's strict limiting of federal prosecution and grab whatever property they liked.

2. Ease of prosecution: One outgrowth of the infamous "War on Drugs" and the expansion of federal powers, was a new ease in which federal attorney's, such as Rudolph Guiliani, could now attack up and coming and innovative Wall Street firms that were posing threats to more established financial institutions.

Jingoisim:

1. "The Evil Empire": While it can be claimed that Reagan helped to bring about the downfall of the U.S.S.R., his rhetoric on the subject displayed a "black and white" naievete of international politics that has lead us to our present situation: a militarily powerful yet deeply distrusted and, more and more openly, disliked nation with a moral superiority complex which is based on hypocracy and questionable military actions. Like lots of leaders throughout history, he found a "villian" to blame all the world's troubles on and proceded to so demonize it that any sort of collaboration or coexistance is impossible. While this may work in the short term, over the long haul the simple fact is that we all have to get along in this world and this isn't the way to do it.

2. Military buildup: Reagan's advocation of an unprecedented military buildup is with us to this day. While this may have prevented certain strife, I still remember the immenent threat of nuclear war with the U.S.S.R. poised like an atomic Sword of Damoclese over my head every day from 1980 through 1988. It wasn't fun.

"Reaganomics"

1. "Trickle Down" economics: The whole idea that, by improving the standing of a few, everyone would profit. Needless to say, these "voodoo" economic policies were no more successful than the aristocracies that had practiced them in history. The only difference was, at least aristocrats didn't expect you to be greatful that they were pissing on you.

2. Deficit Spending: The ensconcing of the idea that not only is it acceptable for governments to spend more money than they make, but that this actually leads to economic growth.

The Iran-Contra Scandal:

What can I say about this, other than it's a bigger political fiasco than Watergate? Reagan and Bush supported funding terrorists and proxy wars. They illegally sold weapons to Iran, a nation the US had acknolwedged was a supporter of terrorisim, in order to provide funds to Nicaraguan organizations on the State Department's list of terrorist organizations. Even if he didn't know about it, he should have and the shame of it falls on his watch.

Urban Decay:

1. "Who Let That Black Man in Here?" At a White House Reception early in his administration, Reagan walked up to Housing and Development Secretary Samuel Pierce, a member of his own cabinet and the only black man on it, and said, "How are you, Mr. Mayor? I'm glad to meet you. How are things in your city?" This lack of recognition was only a sign of things to come.

2. HUD Scandal: During Reagan's administration, the HUD became a huge feeding trough for Republican campaign contributors. After he left office, several top Reagan administrative officials were convicted for targeting housing subsities to those contributors.

3. S&L Deregulation: Reagan oversaw the deregulation of Savings and Loans which led to an orgy of real-estate speculation eventually culminating in a federal taxpayer bailout costing hundreds of billions of dollars.

4. The Income Gap: It widened astronomically. Average worker wages declined and home ownership rates fell. Poverty rates in the cities increased exponentially.

5. They Don't Want To Work: Reagan employed his charisma and rhetorical skills to demonize the growing number of poor in the US, claiming they were lazy and simply didn't want to work. The "Welfare Queen of Chicago" myth and lie was born and he used this as a justification to slash the country's social safety net, cutting federal assistance to local governments by 60%. Sort of hypocritical, considering that his own family was saved from financial ruin by the New Deal.

6. Low-Income Housing Subsidies: After taking office, Reagan appointed a housing task force committee consisting of developers, landlords and bankers. In 1982, this committee released a report calling for free and deregulated markets instead of government assistance. Upon their advice, the HUD's budget authority was slashed from $74 billion to $19 billion with the number of new subsidized housing starts falling from 175,000 to 20,000 a year. Mind you, this was while the number of people below the poverty level was skyrocketing and the housing markets were plummeting and the new subsidies were going to campaign contributors.

7. More Homeless: One of Reagan's most enduring legacies will be the astronomical rise in the homeless under his administration. By the late 1980s, any given night would find an average of 600,000 people on the streets and a yearly average of 1.2 million people without permanent residences of any sort. In the most economically developed country in the world, this is shameful to say the least. Reagan defended himself on this by saying on Good Morning America in 1984 that people sleeping on the streets "are homeless, you might say, by choice."

8. African American Disenfranchisement: Reagan was hostile to the generally accepted remedies for descrimination and appointed people just as hostile. He even sought a tax credit for Bob Jones University, a southern school that was still segregated.

9. School lunches. After slashing budgets for Medicaid, food stamps, aid to families with dependent children and other "means tested" programs early in his tenure, programs which served as lifelines to many African American families, Reagan sought to cut the federal school lunches program, which gave many poor children the only consistant and well-balanced meal they could count on, and redifine ketchup and relish as "vegetables".

Foreign Policy:

1. Iraq supply: Playing both sides of the field, the Reagan administration provided Saddam Hussein with funds, training and covert supplies in his war against Iran. They also tacitly ignored his use of chemical weapons, both on his own citizens and on Iranian fighters.

2. Death squads: Reagan's fervent support of Right-Wing governments in South America along with the death squads those governments employed, which murdered tens of thousands of innocent civilians should never be forgotten. In the hoopla surrounding his passing, it has.

Just Plain Stupid Stuff:

1. "The Trees Will Kill Us All": During his 1980 campaign, Reagan claimed that trees were to blame for 93% of the nation's nitrous oxide polution. It's no wonder that his Secretary of the Interior, James Watt, sought to abandon environmental safeguards and open land to favored developers. Of course, perhaps he was on to something with his "killer trees" hypothesis, at least in the case of Sonny Bono.

2. AIDS: Even though AIDS and HIV emerged as a world problem in the early 80s, Reagan's first speech on the subject didn't come until May 1988, about 8 months before he left office. By then, over 30,000 Americans had been diagnosed with the disease and over 20,000 of them had died of it.

These are only some of the most outstanding legacies of Reagan's administration that we still deal with today in very real and physical ways. Were there good points? Of course there were. 17 million jobs were created under his administration and inflation fell to less than 4.4%. Depending on your morality, it can be argued that Reagan brought a return to "traditional values" (whatever those are) to the United States. Even if it was only to stand against him, Reagan galvanized and invigorated many in my generation to take a long hard look at politics and government and get involved.

Was he the worst President we've ever had? No. Was he the greatest man who ever walked the Earth? No. At the end of the day, he can claim many victories, but must also be held accountable for an astounding number of failures.

Rant over indeed...anyway, if they worked full time at McDonalds, they could pull in 6*40 = 240 dollars a week or about $12,000 a year. That's enough to rent a $300 dollar apartment and eat, while they look for a real job.

Yeah...find me a $300 apartment, smart ass
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=apartment+%24300&btnG=Google+Search

smart-ass again. find one for $300 a month in AUSTIN, TEXAS...WHERE I ACTUALLY LIVE, SMART ASS
You're just like all the indigent, you want the rich to do all your work for you.The cheapest studio apartments where I live run closer to $500, if you don't mind sharing them with the roaches (who never seem to come up with their share of the rent) and McDees never gives full time hours because if they did thay would have to provide medical benifits. I've been in the work force for over 25 years, and struggled through the Reagan years, he was a clueless puppet. He had to be reminded of his own name by the end of his second term, but it really didn't effect his running the country - because he was an actor, a puppet who was handled, a heroic face to put on the presidency while things were decided in the back room. Kind of like our current pres.

Btw, anybody but me notice that McDonalds is still flying it's flag at half mast for this buffoon, I think it's because that clown was the inspiration for Ronald McDonald.

Rant over indeed...anyway, if they worked full time at McDonalds, they could pull in 6*40 = 240 dollars a week or about $12,000 a year. That's enough to rent a $300 dollar apartment and eat, while they look for a real job.

Yeah...find me a $300 apartment, smart ass
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=apartment+%24300&btnG=Google+Search

smart-ass again. find one for $300 a month in AUSTIN, TEXAS...WHERE I ACTUALLY LIVE, SMART ASS
You're just like all the indigent, you want the rich to do all your work for you.are you insane? the rich dont work at all

Rant over indeed...anyway, if they worked full time at McDonalds, they could pull in 6*40 = 240 dollars a week or about $12,000 a year. That's enough to rent a $300 dollar apartment and eat, while they look for a real job.

Yeah...find me a $300 apartment, smart ass
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=apartment+%24300&btnG=Google+Search

smart-ass again. find one for $300 a month in AUSTIN, TEXAS...WHERE I ACTUALLY LIVE, SMART ASS
You're just like all the indigent, you want the rich to do all your work for you.are you insane? the rich dont work at all

thank you for your kind words sir. Yes I'm still a kid. I was born at the end of the Reagan Administration. My parents do remember the Reagan administration. They know of all the good he did for the country.

1. ended the cold war.
2. Help modernize the military.
3. he did lower taxes which did help the economy. Recessions are unpredictable anyway. Never know when they are going to hit.

I will admit that he may have done wrong things too. Every president does. They are human too. People always seem to forget that. They are not GOod. I will try to make sure that my opinions are followed up with some facts. Sometimes that isn't always possible and I will try to keep these to myself for now on.

Thank you Berkylvania for your kind words.

Formal Dances

He may well be dead, but we are still living with the economic reprecussions of his Presidency, so, no, I will NOT leave him alone!! He has hurt me, personally, very badly, and I'll not forgive him for it.

He hurt me, economically, during his Presidency...and his policies, set the stage for what has followed...and to this day, cause me economic hardship. I will never forgive, nor will I ever forget.

He hurt me, and I hope he has met his Maker, and been held accountable by a higher authority for his wicked, heartless, mean-spirited policies.

I will never forgive, nor forget, Reagonomics, and the concept of "trickle-down economics" which, in actuality, ought to be called "tinkle-down economics" as in, PISS ON YOU, POOR PEOPLE!!

His whole concept of "baking a bigger pie" so everyone got more has worked wonders for us as a country, though, hasn't it?? In the old days, I got one crumb of the pie, while the rich and greedy got a WHOLE SLICE of the pie. Now, thanks to Reaganomics, I get TWO crumbs...and the wealthy want to take one of those crumbs away from me...while they now get THREE WHOLE SLICES of the bigger pie!!

PHUCK REAGAN!!!!

But poor people are so annoying. Reagan enpowered the strongest in society, the most able. If you gear the economy towards the weak then you get a weak economy.

He may well be dead, but we are still living with the economic reprecussions of his Presidency, so, no, I will NOT leave him alone!! He has hurt me, personally, very badly, and I'll not forgive him for it.

He hurt me, economically, during his Presidency...and his policies, set the stage for what has followed...and to this day, cause me economic hardship. I will never forgive, nor will I ever forget.

He hurt me, and I hope he has met his Maker, and been held accountable by a higher authority for his wicked, heartless, mean-spirited policies.

I will never forgive, nor forget, Reagonomics, and the concept of "trickle-down economics" which, in actuality, ought to be called "tinkle-down economics" as in, PISS ON YOU, POOR PEOPLE!!

His whole concept of "baking a bigger pie" so everyone got more has worked wonders for us as a country, though, hasn't it?? In the old days, I got one crumb of the pie, while the rich and greedy got a WHOLE SLICE of the pie. Now, thanks to Reaganomics, I get TWO crumbs...and the wealthy want to take one of those crumbs away from me...while they now get THREE WHOLE SLICES of the bigger pie!!

PHUCK REAGAN!!!!

But poor people are so annoying. Reagan enpowered the strongest in society, the most able. If you gear the economy towards the weak then you get a weak economy.

Rant over indeed...anyway, if they worked full time at McDonalds, they could pull in 6*40 = 240 dollars a week or about $12,000 a year. That's enough to rent a $300 dollar apartment and eat, while they look for a real job.

Yeah...find me a $300 apartment, smart ass
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=apartment+%24300&btnG=Google+Search

smart-ass again. find one for $300 a month in AUSTIN, TEXAS...WHERE I ACTUALLY LIVE, SMART ASS
You're just like all the indigent, you want the rich to do all your work for you.
Not at all. All's I have ever wanted or asked for is a chance to EARN my own living, doing a job commensurate with my own skills, abilities, merits, and experience, in return for which I have only ever asked for an honest day's pay for an honest day's work. How is that in any way an unreasonable demand to make in what is supposedly the greatest country on earth? All's I have ever wanted was a job I could be proud of having and doing...and saying "Do you want fries with that?" is NOT a job I would be proud of having, considering the fact that my skills and abilities are commensurate with a far-better job than that. A job like that is LOSER with a capital L.
And as far as taxes and your assertion I want the rich to do all my work for me?? No. But damn it, I want the rich to pay their damn fair share. And their fair share ought to be higher, after all, they benefit far more from the system than I do...so why should they not PAY more? And, for once, why don't the rich fat-cats take it on the chin during times of economic downturns, rather than it always being the poor who take it on the chin?

Why can't THEY do without the new BMW or yacht for once, so that a poor family doesn't HAVE to choose between food and heat in the wintertime?

ON EDIT, final thought: If this is the greatest country on earth, then surely we can do better for the most disadvantaged and disenfranchised among us. Those who, though lack of family connections, or victims of circumstance, simple bad luck, of victims of evil greedy bosses who put profits above people...and who are thusly not given the opportunity to take full advantage of the system we have. Or any advantage, for that matter! All's I am saying is that, in the greatest country on earth, no one's very survival should be in question due to a lack of economic resources...while others have more than they will ever spend in the lifetimes of themselves and five generations of their descendants! I mean, would it really KILL the rich in this country to be just a little more generous to the weakest, the most disenfranchised, and unemppowered among us? Is it really asking too much to create a kinder, fairer, gentler society that finally, for once, puts people ahead of the bottom line?

Rant over indeed...anyway, if they worked full time at McDonalds, they could pull in 6*40 = 240 dollars a week or about $12,000 a year. That's enough to rent a $300 dollar apartment and eat, while they look for a real job.

Yeah...find me a $300 apartment, smart ass
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=apartment+%24300&btnG=Google+Search

smart-ass again. find one for $300 a month in AUSTIN, TEXAS...WHERE I ACTUALLY LIVE, SMART ASS
You're just like all the indigent, you want the rich to do all your work for you.
Not at all. All's I have ever wanted or asked for is a chance to EARN my own living, doing a job commensurate with my own skills, abilities, merits, and experience, in return for which I have only ever asked for an honest day's pay for an honest day's work. How is that in any way an unreasonable demand to make in what is supposedly the greatest country on earth? All's I have ever wanted was a job I could be proud of having and doing...and saying "Do you want fries with that?" is NOT a job I would be proud of having, considering the fact that my skills and abilities are commensurate with a far-better job than that. A job like that is LOSER with a capital L.
And as far as taxes and your assertion I want the rich to do all my work for me?? No. But damn it, I want the rich to pay their damn fair share. And their fair share ought to be higher, after all, they benefit far more from the system than I do...so why should they not PAY more? And, for once, why don't the rich fat-cats take it on the chin during times of economic downturns, rather than it always being the poor who take it on the chin?

Why can't THEY do without the new BMW or yacht for once, so that a poor family doesn't HAVE to choose between food and heat in the wintertime?

Oh cry me a friggin river...other's have gone thru just as bad a time, including myself..sometimes....you may just have to leave Houston to persue your given career...and while your pride may indeed suffer by working at Mickey D's...there are plenty of adults who do..so come down off that condescending horse you have there...life isn't fair..never was and was never meant to be....You may in fact have to work two jobs if you wish to get by in a city where you obviously can't employ the talents you previously displayed.

I once worked an $8.50hr customer service job, and when that was over a $6hr security guard position and bounced on Friday/Sat nites at a local club...you do what you have to do..and I did this WITH a family and mouths to feed.

As for making the rich pay more..they do pay..as I went from poor to middle class to now just on the cusp of upper middle class I sure as hell do pay my fair share....I may have left over after taxes are paid then you, but don't you dare for one second suggest I should pay more just because I worked my damn ass off to get to where I have been, and can now afford that new bass boat

DP

Rant over indeed...anyway, if they worked full time at McDonalds, they could pull in 6*40 = 240 dollars a week or about $12,000 a year. That's enough to rent a $300 dollar apartment and eat, while they look for a real job.

Yeah...find me a $300 apartment, smart ass
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=apartment+%24300&btnG=Google+Search

smart-ass again. find one for $300 a month in AUSTIN, TEXAS...WHERE I ACTUALLY LIVE, SMART ASS
You're just like all the indigent, you want the rich to do all your work for you.
Not at all. All's I have ever wanted or asked for is a chance to EARN my own living, doing a job commensurate with my own skills, abilities, merits, and experience, in return for which I have only ever asked for an honest day's pay for an honest day's work. How is that in any way an unreasonable demand to make in what is supposedly the greatest country on earth? All's I have ever wanted was a job I could be proud of having and doing...and saying "Do you want fries with that?" is NOT a job I would be proud of having, considering the fact that my skills and abilities are commensurate with a far-better job than that. A job like that is LOSER with a capital L.
And as far as taxes and your assertion I want the rich to do all my work for me?? No. But damn it, I want the rich to pay their damn fair share. And their fair share ought to be higher, after all, they benefit far more from the system than I do...so why should they not PAY more? And, for once, why don't the rich fat-cats take it on the chin during times of economic downturns, rather than it always being the poor who take it on the chin?

Why can't THEY do without the new BMW or yacht for once, so that a poor family doesn't HAVE to choose between food and heat in the wintertime?

Oh cry me a friggin river...other's have gone thru just as bad a time, including myself..sometimes....you may just have to leave Houston to persue your given career...and while your pride may indeed suffer by working at Mickey D's...there are plenty of adults who do..so come down off that condescending horse you have there...life isn't fair..never was and was never meant to be....You may in fact have to work two jobs if you wish to get by in a city where you obviously can't employ the talents you previously displayed.

I once worked an $8.50hr customer service job, and when that was over a $6hr security guard position and bounced on Friday/Sat nites at a local club...you do what you have to do..and I did this WITH a family and mouths to feed.

As for making the rich pay more..they do pay..as I went from poor to middle class to now just on the cusp of upper middle class I sure as hell do pay my fair share....I may have left over after taxes are paid then you, but don't you dare for one second suggest I should pay more just because I worked my damn ass off to get to where I have been, and can now afford that new bass boat

He may well be dead, but we are still living with the economic reprecussions of his Presidency, so, no, I will NOT leave him alone!! He has hurt me, personally, very badly, and I'll not forgive him for it.

He hurt me, economically, during his Presidency...and his policies, set the stage for what has followed...and to this day, cause me economic hardship. I will never forgive, nor will I ever forget.

He hurt me, and I hope he has met his Maker, and been held accountable by a higher authority for his wicked, heartless, mean-spirited policies.

I will never forgive, nor forget, Reagonomics, and the concept of "trickle-down economics" which, in actuality, ought to be called "tinkle-down economics" as in, PISS ON YOU, POOR PEOPLE!!

His whole concept of "baking a bigger pie" so everyone got more has worked wonders for us as a country, though, hasn't it?? In the old days, I got one crumb of the pie, while the rich and greedy got a WHOLE SLICE of the pie. Now, thanks to Reaganomics, I get TWO crumbs...and the wealthy want to take one of those crumbs away from me...while they now get THREE WHOLE SLICES of the bigger pie!!

PHUCK REAGAN!!!!

But poor people are so annoying. Reagan enpowered the strongest in society, the most able. If you gear the economy towards the weak then you get a weak economy.but the poor are actually the strongest--theyre the ones who have to fight to survive despite all the obstacles that class bigots like you like to throw in their way--its the rich who are weak cause they get the most big govt handouts and they give the least amount back to society while the poor do 90% of all the hard labor--we need a trickle UP economy cause the better the people do at the bottom the better the overall economy does.

O.K those two editorials told half the story, as that is the nature of the editorial. Certainly some of Labrador's more mild accusations are fair, but tp think he could have stemmed the tide of AIDS is simply irrational. Getting a crumb is better than nothing now. I haven't seen anybody talk about the hostage crisis coming to an end just after he was sworn in. Obviously Labrador is in the minority in his extreme distaste for Reagan. He after all garnered more votes than any other president ever. Lets not forget him and his vice president won every state in just a 4 year span. By the way Labrador, do you think reagan should be put on the 10 dollar bill. :D

O.K those two editorials told half the story, as that is the nature of the editorial. Certainly some of Labrador's more mild accusations are fair, but tp think he could have stemmed the tide of AIDS is simply irrational. Getting a crumb is better than nothing now. I haven't seen anybody talk about the hostage crisis coming to an end just after he was sworn in. Obviously Labrador is in the minority in his extreme distaste for Reagan. He after all garnered more votes than any other president ever. Lets not forget him and his vice president won every state in just a 4 year span. By the way Labrador, do you think reagan should be put on the 10 dollar bill. :D

Actually, it is the five that they are considering that for...and if they do it, I will begin insisting on receivin g my change as five ones...I do not want to look at Reagan's face on my money...or anywhere else!

And it is an affront to Abraham Lincoln, who was a far-better President than "Saint Ronnie" could ever have hoped to be!

My , My, My what a bunch of tripe we have here. I got a good laugh at how Labrador is allowed unrestrained invective here too....

Let's throw a spanner in the works shall we?

My grandparents and Parents came over on the boats during world war two - unable to get a decent job or even speak the language.

Decades later the grandparents have expensive homes in the suburbs, My parents speak flawless english and have a couple of homes and vacation homes, and I have a Degree, and went from a job cutting pipe at 7 bucks an hour to a cool job programming and making scads of money.

It worked a little like this - Scrimping and scraping - doing menial jobs in the beginning - then buying a home and rebuilding it, selling it for more and buying another home - Rinse - wash - repeat.

Mom and dad went to college and recieved degrees - Pop moved onto management at a manufacturing company - Mom worked for a bit then went home to raise my brother and I.

You see - instead of whimpering and whining and being the "victim" like the loony left makes themselves out to be - The family buckled down and actually did whatever they had to do to get ahead. And guess what? We're conservatives that believe that nobody owes you anything - and if you have to work at McDonalds, or Haul Garbage, Or work third shift sorting magazines - You do it. And when you actually do that and follow up on all the wonderful options that come of working hard - you end up making money and being a success.

In your situation Labrador - You've decided to be a victim and to blame it on the conservatives - And that's why you'll always be a failure when it comes to success. All thru this thread all I see is "woe is me, Woe is me" and "It's all the republicans fault".

So tell me - Why? - With all the extra obstacles placed in our way - my family succeeded and you failed? What was the magic element?

My , My, My what a bunch of tripe we have here. I got a good laugh at how Labrador is allowed unrestrained invective here too....
Do you really need me to go through finding "unrestrained invective" from members of the right to prove a point?
You see - instead of whimpering and whining and being the "victim" like the loony left makes themselves out to be - The family buckled down and actually did whatever they had to do to get ahead. And guess what? We're conservatives that believe that nobody owes you anything - and if you have to work at McDonalds, or Haul Garbage, Or work third shift sorting magazines - You do it. And when you actually do that and follow up on all the wonderful options that come of working hard - you end up making money and being a success.If no-one owes anyone else anything what is morally wrong with burgling your house or selling crack? It's merely doing whatever you have to do to get ahead.

In your situation Labrador - You've decided to be a victim and to blame it on the conservatives - And that's why you'll always be a failure when it comes to success. All thru this thread all I see is "woe is me, Woe is me" and "It's all the republicans fault".To an extent I actually agree with you. No to victimhood. Fight back and resist. And in the long term the working classes have to look after their own interests and stuff everyone else. After all it's what your class does. Out of interest do your grandparents get mortage relief?

So tell me - Why? - With all the extra obstacles placed in our way - my family succeeded and you failed? What was the magic element?Not minding who you trod on to get there?

O.K those two editorials told half the story, as that is the nature of the editorial. Certainly some of Labrador's more mild accusations are fair, but tp think he could have stemmed the tide of AIDS is simply irrational. Getting a crumb is better than nothing now. I haven't seen anybody talk about the hostage crisis coming to an end just after he was sworn in. Obviously Labrador is in the minority in his extreme distaste for Reagan. He after all garnered more votes than any other president ever. Lets not forget him and his vice president won every state in just a 4 year span. By the way Labrador, do you think reagan should be put on the 10 dollar bill. :D

Actually, it is the five that they are considering that for...and if they do it, I will begin insisting on receivin g my change as five ones...I do not want to look at Reagan's face on my money...or anywhere else!

And it is an affront to Abraham Lincoln, who was a far-better President than "Saint Ronnie" could ever have hoped to be!

Actually it is the 10 Labrador! Not the Five! And I have to agree Zukoo. Just because you are in a bad situation, it isn't the government's fault. Stop blaming the government for all of your troubles. My brother works at a grocery story for Minimium Wage while he's on Summer Break then he goes back to his job as an Intramural Official for the same wage.

What does he want to do? He wants to be a Meteorologist. He knows he has to work his butt off to get there and he's doing the best he can. Sometimes Labrador, you have to take the bull by the horns and ride. If you don't then you'll be a loser. Even more of one then you are now.

Do you really need me to go through finding "unrestrained invective" from members of the right to prove a point?
Actually - the invective should be shot down on Both sides. You can note How I was able to Respond to Labrador with only a few stining words - instead of referring to coarse sex with a "ph"
If no-one owes anyone else anything what is morally wrong with burgling your house or selling crack? It's merely doing whatever you have to do to get ahead.
Interesting. "Morally" - why don't you define your version of "Morals" so that I can see your point of view and respond properly to it?
To an extent I actually agree with you. No to victimhood. Fight back and resist. And in the long term the working classes have to look after their own interests and stuff everyone else. Yes. And if everyone had that type of work ethic - there'd be precious few that would need assistance.95% of the people getting "Stuffed" are lazy. Pure and simple. After all it's what your class does. Out of interest do your grandparents get mortage relief?
Nope.
Not minding who you trod on to get there?

And the people we "Trod" on were? Please give me some specific examples where I or my family has "Trod" on anyone.

Thanx!

Actually - the invective should be shot down on Both sides. You can note How I was able to Respond to Labrador with only a few stining words - instead of referring to coarse sex with a "ph"That wasn't what you were insinuating. Your reference to Labrador's invective being "unrestrained" suggests that there is a different standard for members of the left and right on here. I simply don't believe that to be true. On swearing- surely you recognise that there can be situations where old anglo-saxon expletives are a useful mode of speech. Do you condemn Chaucer as an example?
If no-one owes anyone else anything what is morally wrong with burgling your house or selling crack? It's merely doing whatever you have to do to get ahead.
Interesting. "Morally" - why don't you define your version of "Morals" so that I can see your point of view and respond properly to it?Firstly I should point out that it was a reference to your argument that "no-one owes anyone else anything" and that people should do what's necessary to get ahead. I don't think I made to much of a lingustic leap from your posistion to the caricature I stated. I will say that I don't particuarly care if your house gets burgled- in the same way as you've made it clear you couldn't give a damn for my class. On my morality- I'd say looking after your community and just generally not doing anything that will screw people over.
To an extent I actually agree with you. No to victimhood. Fight back and resist. And in the long term the working classes have to look after their own interests and stuff everyone else. Yes. And if everyone had that type of work ethic - there'd be precious few that would need assistance.95% of the people getting "Stuffed" are lazy. Pure and simple.I think you've misunderstood me. I'm talking about working class rule in working class areas, and a complete break from the establishment parties- in other words, if you want to set up a branch of your business in an area, the community gets to decide whether they'll let you. On the "lazy" issue- in the UK I know that social mobility is pretty static. In other words most people die in the class they were born into. What's the situation where you live (I assume the US). It also doesen't explain why the rich get to send their kids to private schools and buy a better education for them then everyone else. That's hardly the meritocracy you suggest. Even worse, in the UK their schools get charitable status. So the rest of us pay tax so rich brats don't have to mix with normal people. And the people we "Trod" on were? Please give me some specific examples where I or my family has "Trod" on anyone.Fancy giving me a family employment history? And I'm talking about anyone who was in the way when you "did whatever was necessary".

Thanx!Yer welcome. It's actually a relief to debate someone on the right who has at least rudimentary intelligence. :wink:

That wasn't what you were insinuating. Careful - when you start to read into things you're coloring them with your own shades. Your reference to Labrador's invective being "unrestrained" suggests that there is a different standard for members of the left and right on here. I simply don't believe that to be true. On swearing- surely you recognise that there can be situations where old anglo-saxon expletives are a useful mode of speech. Do you condemn Chaucer as an example? Equating Labradors invective with anything other than childish footstamping raises it to a level where it would take a stretch of Faith that even the Lord could not do.Firstly I should point out that it was a reference to your argument that "no-one owes anyone else anything" and that people should do what's necessary to get ahead. I don't think I made to much of a lingustic leap from your posistion to the caricature I stated.Actually - you did. I will say that I don't particuarly care if your house gets burgled- in the same way as you've made it clear you couldn't give a damn for my class.Really? You're obviously cognizent of the concept of "Strawmen" since you've propped one up here. On my morality- I'd say looking after your community and just generally not doing anything that will screw people over. How does Morality equate to that? I'm sorry - But you'll have to define what you mean by "morality" since there is a difference between "Community" and "morals" especially when defined by experience and class and community.I think you've misunderstood me. I'm talking about working class rule in working class areas, and a complete break from the establishment parties- in other words, if you want to set up a branch of your business in an area, the community gets to decide whether they'll let you. Too often tho ignorance prevents opportunity. especially in america. Look to riots that burn out vietnamese stores , yet when the rebuild occurs - none of the people that rioted against "them" opening those stores steps up to opening their own. Too many are stuck in the victim mentality where "It's their fault" to realize that it's not "Them" doing it, but rather a lack of saying - "Hey look, "They" did it - And SO CAN I!". On the "lazy" issue- in the UK I know that social mobility is pretty static. In other words most people die in the class they were born into. What's the situation where you live (I assume the US). It also doesen't explain why the rich get to send their kids to private schools and buy a better education for them then everyone else. That's hardly the meritocracy you suggest. Even worse, in the UK their schools get charitable status. So the rest of us pay tax so rich brats don't have to mix with normal people.Yet my Grandparents started with two trunks and Forty dollars - Dirt Poor in America - and we've worked ourselves to Upper Middle Class - and I'm trying to go for "Rich". I'm single - Own a new car, and a home - and plan on moving on up. You are what you do - I went to public school, and just worked hard.Fancy giving me a family employment history? And I'm talking about anyone who was in the way when you "did whatever was necessary".Ahh, so you were misquoting me in your perception.
Let me clear this up. I've worked as a clerk, I made blueprints, Worked in an assembly plant, Moved to assembling wiring panels, became a teacher, worked in a record shop, worked as a DJ on the air,then worked security in a casino, then became a games dealer, then a box man, Quit that and became a data miner, then became a programmer. That's my definition of doing whatever it took to get where I am now. I can demonstrate why I lost one job tho - I worked in a inner city school as a teacher and lost that job because I wasn't a minority - A fresh out of school Teacher replaced me. So at that time I was "Trod" upon unfairly - but I doubled my income shortly thereafter.

I hope this explains my position - and hope to hear how your perception changed because of it.

Yer welcome. It's actually a relief to debate someone on the right who has at least rudimentary intelligence. :wink: Intelligence and class - You'll not my refrain from "altering" your name in responses. I believe in extending courtesy to recieve it.

Fancy giving me a family employment history? And I'm talking about anyone who was in the way when you "did whatever was necessary".

Can you explain this please! I'm getting the impression that you don't like people to succeed.

If your insinuating, i think that is the word used, that he trampled over people to get ahead then you need to have YOUR head examined! If your implying this then you need to do the same to me. I started in a public school then moved on to a private school. Now i'm in a private High School. Are you telling me that my parents "trodded" over people to get here? Nope sorry. Don't know where that is coming from.

FD, the word is trod, not trodded. In your specific case, the sentence should read:

"Are you telling me that my parents have trod over people to get here?"

or possibly

"Are you telling me that my parents trod over people to get here?"

or even

"Are you telling me that my parents treaded over people to get here?

You might also consider a slight rewording to:

"Are you telling me that my parents have trodden on people to get where they are today?

Just an FYI. :D

FD, the word is trod, not trodded. In your specific case, the sentence should read:

"Are you telling me that my parents have trod over people to get here?"

or possibly

"Are you telling me that my parents trod over people to get here?"

or even

"Are you telling me that my parents treaded over people to get here?

You might also consider a slight rewording to:

"Are you telling me that my parents have trodden on people to get where they are today?

Just an FYI. :D

Your worse than my parents when it comes to correcting my english :wink:

I do take your meaning just wrote it trying to get it explained which he hasn't done yet!

Intelligence and class - You'll not my refrain from "altering" your name in responses. I believe in extending courtesy to recieve it.Oops. My bad. :oops: Believe it or not that was a genuine mistake- I got you mixed up with another poster that goes by the name "Insane Troll" when editing. That'll teach me to attempt to work and post on NS at the same time.

In your situation Labrador - You've decided to be a victim and to blame it on the conservatives - And that's why you'll always be a failure when it comes to success. All thru this thread all I see is "woe is me, Woe is me" and "It's all the republicans fault".To an extent I actually agree with you. No to victimhood. Fight back and resist.
And therein lies the problem. The American worker has been so screwed over they no longer have the ability TO fight back and resist. Our unions have had their backs broken, so many jobs are now sent overseas that Americans who DO have jobs are reluctant to say anything about ANY level of unfair treatment heaped on them by their rich bosses, knowing that they, too, could be replaced, or have THEIR job shipped overseas.

Nowadays, it is a race to the bottom...pay the lowest wage possible, and screw over American workers, roll back all the rights and protections our grandfathers fought for us to have! And now they wanna take away overtime pay, too! And they will probably get away with it.

After all, Republicans love employers, and hate workers. The interests of the one group are, by definition, inimical to the interests of the other group.

We are not fighting on any semblance of a level playing field. The employers and rich have the bazookas and flamethrowers, I, as a worker, have a corkscrew. Or if I'm lucky, maybe I have a Swiss Army Knife. But how much good does that do me against the bazookas and flamethrowers? And the Republican Party conspires with our bosses to further screw us over.

The American businessman is so damn blind to anything other than the bottom line, he isn't going to see what I see...how the house of cards will come down...
Go ahead. Race to the bottom on wages. What wil be the result? Americans will no longer be able to AFFORD the goods and services you are producing so cheaply by paying sub-standard wages to foriegn workers because you can...and the demand for your goods and services will thus go down, and your profit margin goes away that way!

Consider the current situation in the American marketplace (this includes labor.)
You are company X, and you produce widgets.
You dictate to the American public how much they will pay for your widgets. This is only fair, after all, the widgets belong to you.

I am Employee Z. I have but one thing to sell. My labor. And when you get right down to it, that is what I am doing when I hold a job. I'm selling you my labor. In the old days, not so long ago...I had a union to look out for the workers' collective interests, and, banded together, we could match the power of management, and demand a decent wage for the one and only thing we have to sell...our labor. To some extent, we were able to dictate what you, company X, were going to pay for my labor. And that is only right, since the labor is MY product. Nowadays, however, with the unions having their backs broken, I'm all alone in a big bad-ass world of corporate wolves. They still have their bazooks and flamethrowers. I now have only a Swiss Army Knife to fight back with, whereas before, I had my own bazooka...the union...to stick up for me and my rights, collectively, along with other workers' rights and interests.

I no longer get to dictate what you will pay for my labor, which is the only product I possess to sell. And I can't hold out very long, because I do not have the survival resources you do. And employers know this. So in the end, it is the worker who gets shafted, and now, the worker has no one left to stand up and say, "NOT FAIR!!"

Why can YOU, as Company X...dictate what soomeone will pay for YOUR product...but I, as Employee Z, CANNOT dictate what YOU will pay for MY product? You tell me what you will pay for it...and I accept it...or I starve. And I probably starve anyway, on what you will pay, but at least I starve a little slower. There is no chance to get ahead. Nice, decent, honest people no longer get ahead in the world. Only back-stabbers, greedy, evil, selfish rich bah-studs get ahead now. The American dream is dead. It was killed by those at the top who'd alrady achieved it. Instead of reaching down a hand to help pull others up to the peak they had reached...those at the peak kicked stones down onto the mad, scrambling slobs who were TRYING to cliim up that mountain, sometimes hanging on by their fingernails! And you wonder at my bitterness?

And therein lies the problem. The American worker has been so screwed over they no longer have the ability TO fight back and resist.LMAO - Unions still charge 35 bucks an hour to plug in an extension cord at a convention center - do it yourself and you're screwed. In New York it's illegal to install your own freaking refridgerator - Gotta have a Union electrician do it. Our unions have had their backs broken, so many jobs are now sent overseas that Americans who DO have jobs are reluctant to say anything about ANY level of unfair treatment heaped on them by their rich bosses, knowing that they, too, could be replaced, or have THEIR job shipped overseas.
Pure - Partisan - Not based in Reality Rhetoric. This is little more than hysterical ranting.
Nowadays, it is a race to the bottom...pay the lowest wage possible, and screw over American workers, roll back all the rights and protections our grandfathers fought for us to have! Then why is my income going up? Why is my friends income going up? My Brothers income going up? My fathers income going up? Again - nothing more than ranting. And now they wanna take away overtime pay, too! And they will probably get away with it.
The overtime scale needed to be readjusted to illustrate the reality of the type of labor force we have since its first inception. Again - Pure rhetoric not grounded in any type of reality. The Overtime pay adjustment will not affect many people as most of the money in todays better jobs are salary based.
After all, Republicans love employers, and hate workers. The interests of the one group are, by definition, inimical to the interests of the other group.
And the Democrates would prefer everyone was on welfare and sucking on the government teat. (just illustrating more political ranting)
We are not fighting on any semblance of a level playing field. The employers and rich have the bazookas and flamethrowers, I, as a worker, have a corkscrew. Then get another job.Or if I'm lucky, maybe I have a Swiss Army Knife. But how much good does that do me against the bazookas and flamethrowers? And the Republican Party conspires with our bosses to further screw us over.
Then become a boss.
The American businessman is so damn blind to anything other than the bottom line, he isn't going to see what I see...how the house of cards will come down...The sky is falling the sky is falling! (rins around in circles)
Go ahead. Race to the bottom on wages. What wil be the result? Americans will no longer be able to AFFORD the goods and services you are producing so cheaply by paying sub-standard wages to foriegn workers because you can...and the demand for your goods and services will thus go down, and your profit margin goes away that way!
See above - my income is going up and up and up...
Consider the current situation in the American marketplace (this includes labor.)
You are company X, and you produce widgets.
You dictate to the American public how much they will pay for your widgets. This is only fair, after all, the widgets belong to you.

I am Employee Z. I have but one thing to sell. My labor. And when you get right down to it, that is what I am doing when I hold a job. I'm selling you my labor. In the old days, not so long ago...I had a union to look out for the workers' collective interests, and, banded together, we could match the power of management, and demand a decent wage for the one and only thing we have to sell...our labor. To some extent, we were able to dictate what you, company X, were going to pay for my labor. And that is only right, since the labor is MY product. Nowadays, however, with the unions having their backs broken, Lies. Unions still have bargaining power - the problem is corruption in the Unions.I'm all alone in a big bad-ass world of corporate wolves. They still have their bazooks and flamethrowers. I now have only a Swiss Army Knife to fight back with, whereas before, I had my own bazooka...the union...to stick up for me and my rights, collectively, along with other workers' rights and interests.
Then get another job or make a union.
I no longer get to dictate what you will pay for my labor, which is the only product I possess to sell. Sure you do. Get another Job. And I can't hold out very long, because I do not have the survival resources you do. And employers know this. So in the end, it is the worker who gets shafted, and now, the worker has no one left to stand up and say, "NOT FAIR!!"
you do that by finding better employment - I've walked out of unfair jobs simply by picking my stuff up, moving down the street and working another job. Left the casino Job that way - Told I was leaving the day I quit.
Why can YOU, as Company X...dictate what soomeone will pay for YOUR product...but I, as Employee Z, CANNOT dictate what YOU will pay for MY product? Lies. You keep repeating them - no one believes them. You can dictate what you will work for - Find another job that pays you what you feel you are worth. I've done it.You tell me what you will pay for it...and I accept it...or I starve. Bull. Pure and utter bull - Are you even employed? And I probably starve anyway, on what you will pay, but at least I starve a little slower. There is no chance to get ahead. Nice, decent, honest people no longer get ahead in the world. Only back-stabbers, greedy, evil, selfish rich bah-studs get ahead now. The American dream is dead. It was killed by those at the top who'd alrady achieved it. Riggghhhhhtttt - So what babies did I kill to get where i am today huh? Instead of reaching down a hand to help pull others up to the peak they had reached...those at the peak kicked stones down onto the mad, scrambling slobs who were TRYING to cliim up that mountain, sometimes hanging on by their fingernails! Yeah - that's why I help folks learn how to do what I do. That's why I offer to show how to improve their job skills - Because i'm tossing rocks on them.And you wonder at my bitterness?

I wonder at your veracity. The American Dream is being destroyed by "Victims" so desperate to drag others down as to scream lies at the top of their lungs and force feed rhetoric in their own attempts to bolster their fragile ego.

The american dream is alive and well. I'm living it, and I will be rich someday. I'm not afraid of telling who I work for what I want since there will always be a way to get what I want by determination and dedication.

You have no idea the damage you do by the rhetoric you shout Labrador - By your attitude all you are trying to do is to convince others to lay down and be victims too. And I suppose , fits into your parties line real well, since all you want is a welfare state so all the other "victims" don't have to do anything but lament and cry over "the man" keeping them down.

Labrador Grow up. Your arguements are in circles.

If peoples salaries are going up then why havent yours? The only reason I can think of is that you are a lazy person that sits on his ass and does nothing.

You are attacking the wrong people. The government doesn't owe you a damn thing. If anything, the government owes my dad a pay raise and we're getting that soon thanks to congress!

Our money is our money just as your money is yours to do with as you please. WHy should we have to pay more in taxes? If the government raise taxes on the so called top 1%, how many workers will lose jobs? That top percentage are people that have thousands of employers. If they have to pay more in taxes, they won't be able to afford more employees nor be able to maintain their workforces so they downsize.

That is simple economics. I'm 15 and I understand this mostly because my mom has a degree in economics. So again I ask you, Why should the government raise taxes on the top 1%?

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v293/KwangTiger/production.gif
Race to the bottom. That accounts for 4/5 of the total private sector non-farm employment.

Edit :
OR, If you like, in Constant 1982 Dollars

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v293/KwangTiger/Earnings82.gif

Where are those graphs from, Kwangi?

Bureau of Labor Statistics. (It allows you to make graphs if you go to "Detailed Statistics", and get some historic statistics and then click he box that says make new graph.) Then I had to save them to my comp and upload them to a site.

Bureau of Labor Statistics. (It allows you to make graphs if you go to "Detailed Statistics", and get some historic statistics and then click he box that says make new graph.) Then I had to save them to my comp and upload them to a site.

Thanks! That's where I thought they came from, but I had no idea how you managed to post them so I was wondering if you had another source. Lots of interesting stuff there. :D

Careful - when you start to read into things you're coloring them with your own shades.All though that of course raises the questions of if it's ever possible not to. Surely no interperation of a post can be entirely objective? I notice you still haven't actually denied that it's the case. Why did you use the word "unrestrained" if not? Equating Labradors invective with anything other than childish footstamping raises it to a level where it would take a stretch of Faith that even the Lord could not do.Doesen't that come down to the "can the Lord create an impossible object" argument again? :wink: Seriously though, I think where we differ is that I consider ranting and invective to be legitimate artforms in their own right. And I thought that one was reasonably well crafted. I don't think that it's the only form of discourse. But I do feel it's a valid one.
Actually - you did.Why? How does the free market attitude of a crack dealer offend you? And what is the moral difference between his job and a tobacco executive or arms dealer?Really? You're obviously cognizent of the concept of "Strawmen" since you've propped one up here.I won't pretend I never use it as a debating tactic. (Though I strongly suspect you're not entirely adverse to playing semantic games yourself when it suits you). But I didn't here. You said that "95% of people getting stuffed are lazy". That seems pretty clearcut to meHow does Morality equate to that? I'm sorry - But you'll have to define what you mean by "morality" since there is a difference between "Community" and "morals" especially when defined by experience and class and community.To me it doesen't. But that's because morality is a very personal thing and will vary greatly from person to person. I don't think a dictionary.com defination can really help when talking about metaphysical concepts. What would you say morality is based on for you?
Too often tho ignorance prevents opportunity. especially in america. Look to riots that burn out vietnamese stores , yet when the rebuild occurs - none of the people that rioted against "them" opening those stores steps up to opening their own. Too many are stuck in the victim mentality where "It's their fault" to realize that it's not "Them" doing it, but rather a lack of saying - "Hey look, "They" did it - And SO CAN I!".I'd say that's born out of frustration. But if you're going to be honest wouldn't you prefer that the American working class kept like that rather then taking the politically aggressive standpoint I advocate? Let's be blunt. If the majority of US citizens voted genuinely in their own interests tax breaks for the rich would be a thing of the past.Yet my Grandparents started with two trunks and Forty dollars - Dirt Poor in America - and we've worked ourselves to Upper Middle Class - and I'm trying to go for "Rich". I'm single - Own a new car, and a home - and plan on moving on up. You are what you do - I went to public school, and just worked hard.So a few people slip through the net. That doesen't change the overall picture. To give you some specific examples (all British I'm afraid, I don't have American figures to hand- all figures true of 2003):

According to the Child Poverty Action Group, in a study of twenty five countries, child poverty in Britain was third highest, outstripped only by Russia and the USA. And considering the vast wealth of America I'd sau that demonstrates that a nation's economy can be sucessful while the living standards of the majority of people fall.

Private schools such as Eton are registered charities and pay no tax at all. Such subsidies (from essentially, the taxpayer) allow them to spend twenty times more on each pupil then the state sector.

Though only 7% of all children go to private schools they account for 50% of places at Oxford and Cambridge. (To simplify, essentially our equivelents of Harvard and Yale).

Working class children in turn have a less then 1 in a 100 chance of reaching top universitys.

Children from middle class families are three times more likely to achieve five good GCSEs then children from working class homes and family income delivers 66% of GCSE results.

(All above statistics from Department of Education)

Does that really sound like a meritocracy to you? Or are the poor somehow genetically disposed to academic failure?Let me clear this up. I've worked as a clerk, I made blueprints, Worked in an assembly plant, Moved to assembling wiring panels, became a teacher, worked in a record shop, worked as a DJ on the air,then worked security in a casino, then became a games dealer, then a box man, Quit that and became a data miner, then became a programmer. That's my definition of doing whatever it took to get where I am now. I can demonstrate why I lost one job tho - I worked in a inner city school as a teacher and lost that job because I wasn't a minority - A fresh out of school Teacher replaced me. So at that time I was "Trod" upon unfairly - but I doubled my income shortly thereafter.It's an obvious question (and I suspect the answer will be no as you strike me as honest enough to have mentioned it if so) but did either the blueprints, the assembly plant or the wiring panels involve the defence industry? If not I'd say the casino is probably the most morally dubious in my book- that's partly personal. I've known someone who was addicted to gambling and it's not nice. Generally though I'd argue the "treading" on your part comes on the absolute writing off of the class you came from. Were the people you grew up with, who you once considered friends really 95% lazy?

I hope this explains my position - and hope to hear how your perception changed because of it.Because i'm tossing rocks on them.Sorry, I know that was a cheap shot (and completely out of context). What can I say? I'm quite partial to them. :lol: It has changed my perception somewhat. You don't seem as ruthless as the impression I got from your previous post. You do seem however to be quite ashamed of the class you came from and I don't understand why.
Intelligence and class - You'll not my refrain from "altering" your name in responses. I believe in extending courtesy to recieve it.I may have misunderstood this but are you claiming being upper middle class makes you automatically more intelligent? (And as I said before that was a genuine mistake- there was a three hour break between me writing the first and second half of my reply. It was supposed to be a genuine compliment though I can see why it didn't appear as such).

Kwangi- do those graphs take inflation into account?

The first one dosen't (obviously), but the second one uses "The Consumer Price Index for Urban Wage Earners and Clerical Workers (CPI-W) is used to deflate this series." - In 1982 dollars. I'm not sure why they chose 1982, however.

The first one dosen't (obviously), but the second one uses "The Consumer Price Index for Urban Wage Earners and Clerical Workers (CPI-W) is used to deflate this series." - In 1982 dollars. I'm not sure why they chose 1982, however.

Maybe because of the 82 recession? Just a guess, though. I'm a little confused by that as well.

Sorry about the triple post all. I seem to be involved in two seperate debates at once.Can you explain this please! I'm getting the impression that you don't like people to succeed. Depends. I do think that those people who have concentrated solely on money as a goal tend to be less caring then those who have priortised something else. I don't think that there are many ethical stockbrokers around. You're looking at it the wrong way round however. All I'm saying is that your class has been very good at using the political system to uphold its own interests. All I say is that I wish to start doing the same. Is that really that unreasonable.

If your insinuating, i think that is the word used, that he trampled over people to get ahead then you need to have YOUR head examined! If your implying this then you need to do the same to me. I started in a public school then moved on to a private school. Now i'm in a private High School. Are you telling me that my parents "trodded" over people to get here? Nope sorry. Don't know where that is coming from.So while some people are in crap schools your parents have bought you a level of education most people can only dream of. Did you get there on academic ability? Did you get there because of your contribution to society? No, you got there because your parents were loaded, through no effort on your part. I thought capitalists were supposed to believe in a meritocracy. So your class is happy to let the public school system run down because they send their kids to private school. So yes, I do think that's selfish.
Labrador Grow up. Your arguements are in circles.

If peoples salaries are going up then why havent yours? The only reason I can think of is that you are a lazy person that sits on his ass and does nothing.Do be fair that's the only reason you can think of because, by the sounds of it, you have no concept of real life.

You are attacking the wrong people. The government doesn't owe you a damn thing. If anything, the government owes my dad a pay raise and we're getting that soon thanks to congress!This is actually a lot more honest then the right tend to be. Fuck the pretence to the national interest. Fuck the claims to be working in the interests of America as a whole. (See HT, sometimes an obscenity is the best lingustic tool to make a point :wink: )The current American goverment are class warriors for the rich. Our money is our money just as your money is yours to do with as you please. WHy should we have to pay more in taxes? Because your parent's wealth is created by the work of their employees. So it is only fair that they contributes to their wellbeing. Out of interest what do your parents do and how is it a) harder work and b) more useful to society then the work of a teacher or a nurse.

If the government raise taxes on the so called top 1%, how many workers will lose jobs? That top percentage are people that have thousands of employers. If they have to pay more in taxes, they won't be able to afford more employees nor be able to maintain their workforces so they downsize.

That is simple economics. I'm 15 and I understand this mostly because my mom has a degree in economics. So again I ask you, Why should the government raise taxes on the top 1%?You understand very little about economists by the sounds of things. They don't exist in a vacumn. They, like anyone else, are influenced by their own political views. So, yes while your mother knows a lot about economics, the economic theory you've just cited is not the only one. As a right wing Republican that is naturally the economic theory your mother is going to be drawn towards. But there are others. If it was as clearcut as you claim it wouldn't be. Have you ever read Keynes? And for the record: Loving your parents is good. Respecting your parents is good. Regurgitating all their opinions without forming your own is pathetic. Shouldn't you be going through your teenage rebellion stage by now? :roll:

Because your parent's wealth is created by the work of their employees. So it is only fair that they contributes to their wellbeing. Out of interest what do your parents do and how is it a) harder work and b) more useful to society then the work of a teacher or a nurse.

Well I see what is wrong here. WE aren't THAT WEALTHY!

1) My mother works in Marketing for a company with Major in Marketing AND in ECONOMICS!

2) My dad works for the Army. ARMY ROTC cadet and serves in the US Army and is currently overseas! Trust me, military pay isn't what its cracked up to be! lol

As for what it contributes to society! My dad defends the right for you and I to complain about this on a FREE forumn! They both came from lower middle class families and managed to work up to were they are now!

So while some people are in crap schools your parents have bought you a level of education most people can only dream of. Did you get there on academic ability? Did you get there because of your contribution to society? No, you got there because your parents were loaded, through no effort on your part. I thought capitalists were supposed to believe in a meritocracy. So your class is happy to let the public school system run down because they send their kids to private school. So yes, I do think that's selfish.

I was in a so called crappy school! The teachers actually knew how to teach for the most part! How is our schools run down? I was yanked because of the Curriculmn not the teaching! I attend a Private High School and Yes, I got in here based on my Academic Ability. They have my transcripts and I had to go in for an interview too! WE aren't letting down the public schools, its what they are forced to teach that is bringing down our schools!

You understand very little about economists by the sounds of things. They don't exist in a vacumn. They, like anyone else, are influenced by their own political views. So, yes while your mother knows a lot about economics, the economic theory you've just cited is not the only one. As a right wing Republican that is naturally the economic theory your mother is going to be drawn towards. But there are others. If it was as clearcut as you claim it wouldn't be. Have you ever read Keynes? And for the record: Loving your parents is good. Respecting your parents is good. Regurgitating all their opinions without forming your own is pathetic. Shouldn't you be going through your teenage rebellion stage by now?

I understand about the what they are saying because of my mom's degree in economics. The only thing right si that they are influenced by their own political views. However, the economists have agreed that the TAX CUTS ARE IMPROVING the US ECONOMY! They say that if you revoke the tax cuts, it'll HURT THE US ECONOMY!

As for rebelling, if my parents knew what was in my dresser drawers, I'll never be allowed outside again! I have fought my parents over many things. Mostly trivial things. As for rebelling, Im doing my own form of rebellion!

I'm off to bed so I'll just tackle a couple of points and come back to you in more detail tommorowWell I see what is wrong here. WE aren't THAT WEALTHY! In that case surely higher taxes for the top 1 or even the top 5 % wouldn't leave your family worse off?


I understand about the what they are saying because of my mom's degree in economics. The only thing right si that they are influenced by their own political views. However, the economists have agreed that the TAX CUTS ARE IMPROVING the US ECONOMY! They say that if you revoke the tax cuts, it'll HURT THE US ECONOMY!
Firstly, what do you think most economists you read are paid? They have a vested interest in this. Secondly, the trickledown theory you seem to believe in is certainly a prominent economic theory but it's not the only one. Keynes who I mentioned before believed that higher social spending was good for the economy and he was as qualified an economist as Adam Smith. I seriously suggest you borrow one of his books from the library- you may disagree with his economic theorys but you should at least know about what you're disagreeing with. Read Marx for the same reason- I'm not suggesting for one moment that you'll become a Communist but he's an important enough figure in the 20th Century that he should be read for academic reasons alone.

Lazy, huh?

That is what you conservo-creeps ALWAYS say about those of us who are oppressed and kept down, and we call attention to it. Must be lazy! No...more like...YOU are lazy.
What I have noticed, in corporate America is...the more money you make, the LESS ACTUAL WORK you do!!!

Well, I will tell you what. I got screwed over by a company that LIED TO ME when recruiting me, as to what my salary would be. The reality ended up being three to four dollars an hour lower than they had told me, and led me to believe. And, of course, at my level (peon) who asks a prospective employer to "put it in writing?" You tend to take them at their word.

But I got lied to.

I was working for ten bucks an hour, with a company contracted by the state of Texas to produce Medicaid claims. When that company got outbid for the contract, and lost it, the new company recruited a bunch of us, including me, from the old company...and led us all to believe our compensation would be far better than it turned out to be.

And when we called them on it, they said, "prove it. Do you have anything in writing?"

And you see why I have he bitterness I do now about corporate America??

They goddam LIED TO ME!!! THEY CHEATED ME!!!

If they had been honest, when recruiting us, about what the salary would be, I would have had eight months, while still workiing for the old company...to look for a new job. And failing to find one, I'd have had a nice, safe layoff and unemployment.

BUT, by LYING to me, they took MY ability to make a reasoned, informed, and intelligent decision about MY career path out of my hands! They denied me the right to a say in my own career path!!

Who goes out looking for another job, when they believe they already have one lined up that will pay them the same or better than the one they currently have? so I didn't use that eight months. Why would I? I believed I had a job lined up already, one that would pay better than I, at the time, was making.

In the end, I TRIED to get them to fire me, so I could get unemployment. They wouldn't. They enjoyed grinding me and the rest of us down, pauperizing us...laughing at the false promises they had made to us and then broken. They enjoyed watching us suffer.

So I finally quit. five months in, and with nothing lined up, I'd fianlly had all I could take and I quit.

So now what do I do, you ask??

I do a job most of you conservo-creeps would NEVER do...you'd consider yourselves FAR TOO GOOD to do what I do!! I deliver a goddam newspaper route, because it is ALL I CAN FIND in this shitty economy!! Which means, I work seven days a week, 365 days a year, I deliver in rain, snow, sleet, hail, shine...no such thing as sick days or holidays (paid or otherwise) no such thing as vacation...and if I ever DO want time off, I gotta find someone else to do myroute for me...and pay them more than I'd make doing it myself...and if, for any reason, I do not show up to do my route, they do it...and fine me SIXTY BUCKS for doing it that day...and it is all in the shitty, one-way contract I had to sign to even get this much so I could at least continue a subsistence until I just might find something better.

SO DON'T YOU EFFING DARE EVER ACCUSE ME OF BEING LAZY!! UNTIL YOU DRAG YOUR ASS OUT OF BED EVERY MORNING AT 2:30 IN THE MORNING TO DELIVER NEWSPAPERS AND GET A WHOLE JOLLY $825 A MONTH FOR IT....AND THEN GO WORK A TEMP JOB FORTY HOURS A WEEK IF I CAN GET ONE...UNTIL I FIND SOMETHING PERMANENT....DON'T YOU EFFING DARE CALL ME LAZY, YOU FAT-CAT SON OF A GUN!!

And, in case you just might be wondering...and since I'm no longer employed by the LIARS and CHEATERS who screwed me over, I'm no longer bound by any of their rules, either...so I can disclose the company in question, who CHEATED AND LIED to it's employment recruits was ACS, or Affiliated Computer Services. look 'em up sometime...they are number 447 on Fortune 500's list!! And that is how they got there, too...BY SHITTING ON THEIR WORKERS!!!

Jeepers, this got ugly. :cry:

Jeepers, this got ugly. :cry:

Oh, and by the way...the $825 a month is GROSS, not NET...and doesn't count all the goddam gas I gotta burn up in my car, and the wear and tear on my car every day to deliver those goddam newspapers!

So by the time I get done with it, gas, wear and tear, and taxes...I probably GET about $450 to $500 a month for a seven-day a week 365 day a year job that is so shitty most immagrant workers wouldn't even do it!! And I do it becuase it is all I can find in this crap economy!!

When Clinton was Prez, there were regulary 7 to 8 pages of Help Wanted ads. and that was during the week!! Sunday had anywhere from 12-16 pages! Two days ago, the paper had a page and a half!! and only three of them were jobs I was even qualified for.

One ended up being a bullshit job pounding on people's doors all day, raising money for various causes. I didn't take that. Another was selling efing Kirby vacuum cleaners! Yeah, right!! In this economy, people are really likely to want to spend $1800 for a goddam vacuum cleaner!!

And I don't even remember what the third one was, but it was every bit as shitty as the first two.

So why don't you try taking off your rose-colored glasses, and look at what the world really is?? A bunch of rich bastards shitting on poor people, exploiting them, taking advantage of them, lying to them and cheating them...AND EFFING GETTING AWAY WITH IT, TOO!!

No, I don't want everyone to be a victim, or be on welfare...I want the workers of america to rise up against the evil rich bosses, and cut them down to size!! What I want is a workers revolution! I wanna see here what you fat-cats really deserve...what happened in China in the 1920's, when rich bastards were brought down and beaten by angry mobs of the Noble Workers who weren't gonna take any more shit!!

Delivering papers is all you could find? Obviously you didn't look hard enough. A friend of mine delievers papers in my area and she enjoys it. Sometimes you have to make the best out of every situation. As for bitching about it, its not worth it! Make the best of it and continue to look.

As for being lied too, EVEYONE LIES DUDE! If they want you badly enough, they'll lie to you to get you. You fell for it, nothing you could do. By quitting your job, you let them win. My brother worked at a damned GROCERY STORE for 6 months till he had it with management and told the boss SHE HAD NO LEADERSHIP!

My dad serves in the Army! He's overseas at the moment fighting for our freedoms. He's up AT ALL HOURS FIGHTING an enemy that do Cowardly attacks on civilians and military personel.

As for your job, at least you have one. Begrateful you do instead of bitching about what type of work you do. As long as their is food on the table and a roof over your head, who cares what type of job you have. DON"T LET YOUR DAMN PRIDE GET IN THE WAY!

As for your former company, I know nothing of them and from my opinion, your not very objective. If I did look this up, I bet you that I'll find the exact opposite opinion than yours. You have a vandetta against them, and that doesn't make for me to get the scoop about them from you.

As for me being a "Fat-can son-of-a-gun" I'm fit as a fiddle and I'm a girl! As for calling you lazy, I apologize though I shouldn't because you insulted me and I DEMAND AN APOLOGY BACK FOR WHAT YOU CALLED!

Delivering papers is all you could find? Obviously you didn't look hard enough. A friend of mine delievers papers in my area and she enjoys it. Sometimes you have to make the best out of every situation. As for bitching about it, its not worth it! Make the best of it and continue to look.

As for being lied too, EVEYONE LIES DUDE! If they want you badly enough, they'll lie to you to get you. You fell for it, nothing you could do. By quitting your job, you let them win. My brother worked at a damned GROCERY STORE for 6 months till he had it with management and told the boss SHE HAD NO LEADERSHIP!

My dad serves in the Army! He's overseas at the moment fighting for our freedoms. He's up AT ALL HOURS FIGHTING an enemy that do Cowardly attacks on civilians and military personel.

As for your job, at least you have one. Begrateful you do instead of bitching about what type of work you do. As long as their is food on the table and a roof over your head, who cares what type of job you have. DON"T LET YOUR DAMN PRIDE GET IN THE WAY!

As for your former company, I know nothing of them and from my opinion, your not very objective. If I did look this up, I bet you that I'll find the exact opposite opinion than yours. You have a vandetta against them, and that doesn't make for me to get the scoop about them from you.

As for me being a "Fat-can son-of-a-gun" I'm fit as a fiddle and I'm a girl! As for calling you lazy, I apologize though I shouldn't because you insulted me and I DEMAND AN APOLOGY BACK FOR WHAT YOU CALLED!

Jeepers, this got ugly. :cry:

You ain't SEEN me get ugly yet...I'm just warming up, trust me, I can get a lot uglier! And I will, too...if I EVER get accused of being lazy again...BECAUSE I WILL NOT STAND FOR THAT ACCUSATION!!!

I EFFING WORK HARDER THAN ANY OF THE CONSERVO-CREEPS WHO ARE ACCUSING ME OF BEING LAZY EVER DREAMED OF WORKING!!

Jeepers, this got ugly. :cry:

You ain't SEEN me get ugly yet...I'm just warming up, trust me, I can get a lot uglier! And I will, too...if I EVER get accused of being lazy again...BECAUSE I WILL NOT STAND FOR THAT ACCUSATION!!!

I EFFING WORK HARDER THAN ANY OF THE ASSHOLES WHO ARE ACCUSING ME OF BEING LAZY EVER DREAMED OF WORKING!!

READ MY POST ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE DUDE!!!!!

EVER INSULT ME AGAIN, I WILL DO MUCH WORSE THEN CALL YOU LAZY!

Jeepers, this got ugly. :cry:

You ain't SEEN me get ugly yet...I'm just warming up, trust me, I can get a lot uglier! And I will, too...if I EVER get accused of being lazy again...BECAUSE I WILL NOT STAND FOR THAT ACCUSATION!!!

I EFFING WORK HARDER THAN ANY OF THE ASSHOLES WHO ARE ACCUSING ME OF BEING LAZY EVER DREAMED OF WORKING!!

READ MY POST ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE DUDE!!!!!

EVER INSULT ME AGAIN, I WILL DO MUCH WORSE THEN CALL YOU LAZY!

YOU EFFING INSULTED ME FIRST, BY ACCUSING ME OF BEING LAZY!! I'M REACTING TO THAT!!

Jeepers, this got ugly. :cry:

You ain't SEEN me get ugly yet...I'm just warming up, trust me, I can get a lot uglier! And I will, too...if I EVER get accused of being lazy again...BECAUSE I WILL NOT STAND FOR THAT ACCUSATION!!!

I EFFING WORK HARDER THAN ANY OF THE ASSHOLES WHO ARE ACCUSING ME OF BEING LAZY EVER DREAMED OF WORKING!!

READ MY POST ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE DUDE!!!!!

EVER INSULT ME AGAIN, I WILL DO MUCH WORSE THEN CALL YOU LAZY!

YOU EFFING INSULTED ME FIRST, BY ACCUSING ME OF BEING LAZY!! I'M REACTING TO THAT!!

AND IF YOU READ MY EFFING POST ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE IN RESPONSE TO YOUR EFFING POST, YOU SEE THAT I APOLOGIZED!

Delivering papers is all you could find? Obviously you didn't look hard enough. A friend of mine delievers papers in my area and she enjoys it. Sometimes you have to make the best out of every situation. As for bitching about it, its not worth it! Make the best of it and continue to look.

As for being lied too, EVEYONE LIES DUDE! If they want you badly enough, they'll lie to you to get you. You fell for it, nothing you could do. By quitting your job, you let them win. My brother worked at a damned GROCERY STORE for 6 months till he had it with management and told the boss SHE HAD NO LEADERSHIP!

My dad serves in the Army! He's overseas at the moment fighting for our freedoms. He's up AT ALL HOURS FIGHTING an enemy that do Cowardly attacks on civilians and military personel.

As for your job, at least you have one. Begrateful you do instead of bitching about what type of work you do. As long as their is food on the table and a roof over your head, who cares what type of job you have. DON"T LET YOUR DAMN PRIDE GET IN THE WAY!

As for your former company, I know nothing of them and from my opinion, your not very objective. If I did look this up, I bet you that I'll find the exact opposite opinion than yours. You have a vandetta against them, and that doesn't make for me to get the scoop about them from you.

As for me being a "Fat-can son-of-a-gun" I'm fit as a fiddle and I'm a girl! As for calling you lazy, I apologize though I shouldn't because you insulted me and I DEMAND AN APOLOGY BACK FOR WHAT YOU CALLED!

TRY EFFING READING BEFORE SHOOTING OFF...I CALLED YOU A FAT-CAT SON OF A GUN NOT A FAT-CAN...

TRY READING AND NO APOLOGY IS FORTHCOMING, EITHER...YOU INSULTED ME FIRST BY ACCUSING ME OF BEING LAZY...I REACTED TO IT!!

Delivering papers is all you could find? Obviously you didn't look hard enough. A friend of mine delievers papers in my area and she enjoys it. Sometimes you have to make the best out of every situation. As for bitching about it, its not worth it! Make the best of it and continue to look.

As for being lied too, EVEYONE LIES DUDE! If they want you badly enough, they'll lie to you to get you. You fell for it, nothing you could do. By quitting your job, you let them win. My brother worked at a damned GROCERY STORE for 6 months till he had it with management and told the boss SHE HAD NO LEADERSHIP!

My dad serves in the Army! He's overseas at the moment fighting for our freedoms. He's up AT ALL HOURS FIGHTING an enemy that do Cowardly attacks on civilians and military personel.

As for your job, at least you have one. Begrateful you do instead of bitching about what type of work you do. As long as their is food on the table and a roof over your head, who cares what type of job you have. DON"T LET YOUR DAMN PRIDE GET IN THE WAY!

As for your former company, I know nothing of them and from my opinion, your not very objective. If I did look this up, I bet you that I'll find the exact opposite opinion than yours. You have a vandetta against them, and that doesn't make for me to get the scoop about them from you.

As for me being a "Fat-can son-of-a-gun" I'm fit as a fiddle and I'm a girl! As for calling you lazy, I apologize though I shouldn't because you insulted me and I DEMAND AN APOLOGY BACK FOR WHAT YOU CALLED!

TRY EFFING READING BEFORE SHOOTING OFF...I CALLED YOU A FAT-CAT SON OF A GUN NOT A FAT-CAN...

TRY READING AND NO APOLOGY IS FORTHCOMING, EITHER...YOU INSULTED ME FIRST BY ACCUSING ME OF BEING LAZY...I REACTED TO IT!!

SO SUE THE EFFING OUT OF ME! I DEMAND AN APOLOGY SINCE I APOLOGIZED TO YOU! AS FOR THE SMALL MISQUOTE, I CAN'T CONTROL MY FINGERS SOMETIMES. SLIP OF THE KEY.

Jeepers, this got ugly. :cry:

You ain't SEEN me get ugly yet...I'm just warming up, trust me, I can get a lot uglier! And I will, too...if I EVER get accused of being lazy again...BECAUSE I WILL NOT STAND FOR THAT ACCUSATION!!!

I EFFING WORK HARDER THAN ANY OF THE ASSHOLES WHO ARE ACCUSING ME OF BEING LAZY EVER DREAMED OF WORKING!!

READ MY POST ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE DUDE!!!!!

EVER INSULT ME AGAIN, I WILL DO MUCH WORSE THEN CALL YOU LAZY!

YOU EFFING INSULTED ME FIRST, BY ACCUSING ME OF BEING LAZY!! I'M REACTING TO THAT!!

AND IF YOU READ MY EFFING POST ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE IN RESPONSE TO YOUR EFFING POST, YOU SEE THAT I APOLOGIZED!

Really? Where? I didn't see no apology in those words...just more shit spewing out of your mouth about people and situations you know nothing about!! By your own admission, you are 15 years old, and are regurgitating your mom's opinions...you have no experience of your own in the workforce!!!
And even if everyoone does lie...does that make it right?? Does that make it okay?? Should corporations be allowed to get away with it?? Why do I get no legal recourse?!!?

I'm just supposed to bend over and take it up the ass with no Vaseline, and like it?? BULL-EFFING-SHIT!!!

GO to Jolt fast, I'm losing patients! DP

Jeepers, this got ugly. :cry:

You ain't SEEN me get ugly yet...I'm just warming up, trust me, I can get a lot uglier! And I will, too...if I EVER get accused of being lazy again...BECAUSE I WILL NOT STAND FOR THAT ACCUSATION!!!

I EFFING WORK HARDER THAN ANY OF THE ASSHOLES WHO ARE ACCUSING ME OF BEING LAZY EVER DREAMED OF WORKING!!

READ MY POST ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE DUDE!!!!!

EVER INSULT ME AGAIN, I WILL DO MUCH WORSE THEN CALL YOU LAZY!

YOU EFFING INSULTED ME FIRST, BY ACCUSING ME OF BEING LAZY!! I'M REACTING TO THAT!!

AND IF YOU READ MY EFFING POST ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE IN RESPONSE TO YOUR EFFING POST, YOU SEE THAT I APOLOGIZED!

Really? Where? I didn't see no apology in those words...just more shit spewing out of your mouth about people and situations you know nothing about!! By your own admission, you are 15 years old, and are regurgitating your mom's opinions...you have no experience of your own in the workforce!!!
And even if everyoone does lie...does that make it right?? Does that make it okay?? Should corporations be allowed to get away with it?? Why do I get no legal recourse?!!?

I'm just supposed to bend over and take it up the ass with no Vaseline, and like it?? BULL-EFFING-SHIT!!!

Ok, I see your apology...the last line...after five paragraphs of crapping on me...and accusing me of "not looking ard enough"

Well, where the freaking HELL am I supposed to look, when the want ads are a quarter the size they were in the Clinton years?!!?

I've only done the best I can! and I'm not bitching about the paper route...I'M BITICHING ABOUT BEING ACCUSED OF BEING LAZY, WHEN I EFFING WORK HARDER THAN MOST AMERICANS WOULD EVER EVEN DREAM OF WORKING...BECAUSE IT IS WHAT I HAVE TO DO TO SURVIVE FOR NOW!!

DOESN'T MEAN I GOTTA LIKE IT...AND DOESN'T MEAN I AIN'T GOT A RIGHT TO BITCH ABOUT IT...I GOT LIED TO A CHEATED ON, AND THAT PUT ME IN THE ROTTEN POSITION I AM NOW IN...IT'S NOT FAIR, AND IT'S NOT RIGHT!!!

THEY GET AWAY WITH IT AND I GET NO JUSTICE!! AND I'M PISSED OFF ABOUT IT, OKAY??

And since it is now 10PM here, and 2:30 comes awful damned eaarly, I am going to bed.

I apologize for your misinterpretation of my words...and if it makes you feel any better, I apologize for what I DID say...even though I meant what I said...and I quite frankly still do. YOU ROYALLY PISSED ME OFF, ACCUSING ME OF BEING LAZY!!! HOW DARE ANYONE ACCUSE ME OF BEING LAZY?!!? I WILL NOT TOLERATE SUCH ACCUSATIONS!!

Good night.

Ok, I see your apology...the last line...after five paragraphs of crapping on me...and accusing me of "not looking ard enough"

Well, where the freaking HELL am I supposed to look, when the want ads are a quarter the size they were in the Clinton years?!!?

I've only done the best I can! and I'm not bitching about the paper route...I'M BITICHING ABOUT BEING ACCUSED OF BEING LAZY, WHEN I EFFING WORK HARDER THAN MOST AMERICANS WOULD EVER EVEN DREAM OF WORKING...BECAUSE IT IS WHAT I HAVE TO DO TO SURVIVE FOR NOW!!

DOESN'T MEAN I GOTTA LIKE IT...AND DOESN'T MEAN I AIN'T GOT A RIGHT TO BITCH ABOUT IT...I GOT LIED TO A CHEATED ON, AND THAT PUT ME IN THE ROTTEN POSITION I AM NOW IN...IT'S NOT FAIR, AND IT'S NOT RIGHT!!!

THEY GET AWAY WITH IT AND I GET NO JUSTICE!! AND I'M PISSED OFF ABOUT IT, OKAY??

And since it is now 10PM here, and 2:30 comes awful damned eaarly, I am going to bed.

I apologize for your misinterpretation of my words...and if it makes you feel any better, I apologize for what I DID say...even though I meant what I said...and I quite frankly still do. YOU ROYALLY PISSED ME OFF, ACCUSING ME OF BEING LAZY!!! HOW DARE ANYONE ACCUSE ME OF BEING LAZY?!!? I WILL NOT TOLERATE SUCH ACCUSATIONS!!

Good night.

Jeepers, this got ugly. :cry:

You ain't SEEN me get ugly yet...I'm just warming up, trust me, I can get a lot uglier! And I will, too...if I EVER get accused of being lazy again...BECAUSE I WILL NOT STAND FOR THAT ACCUSATION!!!

I EFFING WORK HARDER THAN ANY OF THE ASSHOLES WHO ARE ACCUSING ME OF BEING LAZY EVER DREAMED OF WORKING!!

READ MY POST ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE DUDE!!!!!

EVER INSULT ME AGAIN, I WILL DO MUCH WORSE THEN CALL YOU LAZY!

YOU EFFING INSULTED ME FIRST, BY ACCUSING ME OF BEING LAZY!! I'M REACTING TO THAT!!

AND IF YOU READ MY EFFING POST ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE IN RESPONSE TO YOUR EFFING POST, YOU SEE THAT I APOLOGIZED!

Really? Where? I didn't see no apology in those words...just more shit spewing out of your mouth about people and situations you know nothing about!![qoute]are regurgitating your mom's opinions...you have no experience of your own in the workforce!!![/quote]

Last paragraph "As for calling you lazy, I apologize"! I did apologize even though I shouldn't but I am apologizing. As for no experience in the workforce, your right, I don't but my brother does. He worked at a grocery store at MINIMUM WAGE!!!!!! Hated the boss because of leadership and 6 months later, after an altercation with another worker, was sent home but not him. Was that right? No. Both should've been sent home. He told her as such but he was the only one sent home and he told her bluntly what he thought and was canned. Was he upset? Sure. He also got over it.

And even if everyoone does lie...does that make it right?? Does that make it okay?? Should corporations be allowed to get away with it?? Why do I get no legal recourse?!!?

Does it make it right? No it doesn't but it happens so GET OVER IT! Is it okay? No its not but GET OVER IT! Should they get away with it? No but you know what? Forget it! Its in the past! No need to dwell in it. As for legal recourse you really don't have a case. You weren't fired, you quit. That pretty much ended your case.

I'm just supposed to bend over and take it up the ass with no Vaseline, and like it?? BULL-EFFING-SHIT!!!

As for taking it in the ass and like? No you don't have to like it, you just have to take it! However, what happened to you was in the past. Get over it! ITS OVER! Move on as best you can.

iLock pending Moderator review.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

Labrador and Formal Dances: You two are hereby warned for forum flaming.

Personally, I find your behavior towards each other to be absolutely apalling. Civil conduct is required on the NationStates.net forums and you two have demonstrated the exact anti-thesis of civil conduct. Anger and posting don't mix.

I don't care how hard your existance is in real-life or what your opinion is of other people. That is NOT an excuse to behave in this manner on NationStates.

"Formal Dances", from what I can see, you provoked this argument. "Labrador", you allowed it to continue in this manner by replying to her. Neither of you will get any additional warnings. If either of you steps out-of-line again, your nation will be deleted.

"Think about it for a moment."

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

Upon rereading my last post, I found that I wasn't clear on one, critical point.

The warning against both players involved is for personally attacking other players on NationStates. Abuse and insults against other NationStates players are not tolerated.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation