NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm certain that in times past there have been attempts to set up large-scale "conspiracies". Problem is, such conspiracies are doomed to failure every time because of human nature, stupidity and selfishness. Any human conspiracy you can think of will always break down for reasons such as:

- human error & miscommunication
- police infiltration
- inside informants
- internal power struggles
- corruption
- internal theft of funds
- petty jealousies including romantic ones
- conflicting goals & interests

The favourite topic among the lunatic-fringe is the so-called "Jewish Conspiracy". I'll just say this: ever notice that even Jews living in Israel constantly bicker among themselves and can't present a unified front on any issue? This is because they are human and so are prone to the same problems of disorganization as anyone. Jews don't all think and plan alike any more than anyone else does. So even if some of them *did* try to organize a "conspiracy" it would be sure to fall apart.

Trouble is, you can't change the minds of these True Believers in "global conspiracies". Like all Fundamentalists these folks are convinced that anybody who disagrees with them must automatically be "brainwashed" by the so-called conspirators! This is the mental equivalent of a dog chasing its tail and is impossible to debate.

Yes, there have been conspiracies throughout history. The Illuminati in the 18th century, the Communist Conspiracy in the 19th and 20th centuries, the Thuggee cult hundreds of years ago, the Assassins (a Persian cult) from I don't remember when, and today the globalist conspiracy (the United Nations, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, the Bildeburgers, etc.).

:roll:

Depends on what you consider a conspiracy. Are a group of people working toward the same end considered a conspiracy even if they're not really working together? Does there really have to be a secret club?

And even if there is a secret club, like the Carlyle Group or the PNAC for instance, do they have to be working toward global hegemony or is it enough that they're trying to extend their personal influence over strategic commodities?

I think they can be considered conspiracies in the sense that they're groups of people trying to extend their personal influence over large portions of the worldwide economy. I don't think of them as SPECTRE or even Bilderberger kinds of conspiracies, but they certainly are out there.

The only conspiracy I believe in is the Dempublican/Republicrat conspiracy.

No there haven't. And the Anti-Jewish conspiracies sicken me the most.

My grandfather used to blame the masons. Everything that was wrong with the world was caused by those damned Masons. A ridiculous idea for a man of his intellect and foresight. :( My mother believes in some of them, my father does not and he's rabid about proving them wrong. I personnally don't believe in any of them.

Just from a logic/logistical perspective. A global conspiracy would take thousands (if not tens or hundreds of thousands) of people in order to accomplish. It would take extremes amount of knowledge and most of all; not a single person to spill the beans. The last one I find the most damning, people talk, and they do it alot. Its impossible to keep anything secret nowadays.

And the assassins weren't a conspiracy. They were a religious cult led by Hasan-i Sabbah, they used the dagger and hashish to assassinate their targets. Their leader set out to topple the Abbasid Caliphate, their most famous killing I think was the King of Jerusalem, Conrad of Montferrat. They were exterminated by the Mongols. I don't see how they could qualify as being part of a conspiracy...

Wait...I agree with Garaj Mahal on something...spooky... :P

I do recognize that The Trilateral Commission & The Bildeburgers do have some global influence - and not good influence either.

But do these groups rule the world with an iron fist and pervade every aspect of our lives? No, and they never will succeed at that.

Humans are too imperfect, and the world is simply too *random* and rife with unpredictable occurances for these groups to have that major a longterm effect.

While there is no single global conspiracy that rules the world, many secret societies that try still exist today, like the Illuminati, or Starbucks...

Various governments and those with power can't agree or cooperate on anything. Why should one believe that they are involved in some huge conspiracy?

Various governments and those with power can't agree or cooperate on anything. Why should one believe that they are involved in some huge conspiracy?

This I agree with!

You really need to clarify what type of conspiracies your talking about in your poll. YES, there are global conspiracies.. for instance, while in france I conspired to get laid by this cute french girl..who just happened to be planning to move to my home town here in America(strange coincidence).. back in the states, the conspiracy continued.. well, anyway, that qualifies as an international conspiracy..

I think that global conspiracies do exist. But I think that I must clarify what I mean.

When I say global, I mean world wide rather than omni-present in all spheres of influence.

Groups like the Masons are a world wide organization but I doubt that they are as influencial as everyone says.

I agree with the fact that these organisations can fragment easily, If you have even a small group of powerful individuals (like to top degrees of Masonry), and there is a disagreement of ideologies it will severly limit the power of the organization.

I think that conspiracies have, do, and will continue to exist. Whether or not the various conspirators have the wit or capability to bring any of their conspiracies to fruition is entirely another matter. Given that so much of human history is chaotic and random, and given the mentality and mental capacity of your average conspirator, I'd think it highly unlikely.

Mind you, conspiracy theories have been responsible for all manner of human suffering. Look at the horrors brought about by believers in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", for example -- despite it being an obvious, and well-documented, Tsarist Russian fake. Or the miseries produced by those fighting against the "International Communist Conspiracy", or believers in the "Domino Theory".

I also have to question what a conspiracy is. It would not be a group of people going towards a single goal - most countries are based on something similar to that idea. If it is information that rulers and leaders use that is usually hidden from the rest of the society, then I believe there are conspiracies galore.

:roll: I wonder what the human race could get done if we tried to work togethor rather than dedicate all of our effort to tracking down these silly global conspiracies...

I think you left out the simple option of "yes", the addition of the phrase "They explain how the world really works", and only giving the options of No, and maybe, gives an implication that global conspiracies either do not exist at all, or are all pervasive, with no middle ground. With the options you have given, I'd have to give no answer, because I do believe that there is such a thing as "Global Conspiracies" per say, but do not ascribe to the view that the world is completely run by them.

As for whether or not Global Conspiracies exist, it depends upon what exactly you mean by "Global". How far reaching must a conspiracy react to be Global. Webster's defines a conspiracy as:

Con`spir´a`cy
n. 1. A combination of people for an evil purpose; an agreement, between two or more persons, to commit a crime in concert, as treason; a plot.
2. A concurence or general tendency, as of circumstances, to one event, as if by agreement.
A conspiracy in all heavenly and earthly things.
- Sir P. Sidney.
3. (Law) An agreement, manifesting itself in words or deeds, by which two or more persons confederate to do an unlawful act, or to use unlawful to do an act which is lawful; confederacy.

Now depending upon how you define "evil", or what you would define as an "illegal act", would determine what a conspiracy really is. I mean, on the world stage right now, al Qaeda is definately a group of people united for a common purpose (one which most westerners would call "evil"), and the acts which they commit are definately considered crimes, in the countries in which they carry them out. Their attacks have ranged throughout Africa and the Middle East, parts of Europe, and the United States, making them pretty global in my eyes at least. Therefore, I would definately say that global conspiracies exist.
In the eyes of a member of Al-Qaeda, of subsidiary organizations however, I doubt they see themselves as conspirators, as they believe what they are doing is just and legal.

There is also the issue of conpiracies between nations. Many people consider the actions of the current US administration to be a global conspiracy of huge proportions. That the establishment of a "New World Order" built and designed to feed a gluttonous consumer market, is both illegal and immoral. The people within that administration, and indeed the suporters of that administration however do not see there actions as "conspiratorial", as there is a belief that now "law" is being broken, and that their ends are just and for the greater good.

All in all, pretty much any action carried out by any group, will undoubtably be considered a conspiracy by someone. If those actions involve more than one international state, then it could be termed a "Global Conspiracy".

dam dp

sorry

((bump))

Anyone who doesn't believe in conspiracies is basically saying that our governments tell us the truth about everything all the time... Now that's what I call a nut...

David Beckham.

Need I say more?

There are no conspiracies, but THEY want you to believe there are :twisted:

Anyone who doesn't believe in conspiracies is basically saying that our governments tell us the truth about everything all the time...

I don't understand your logic. I know that governments habitually lie, yet I don't see what that has to do with so-called "global conspiracies". Governments lie to make themselves look good and get re-elected.

I believe wilkshire is saying that those who are dismissive of anything that could qualify as a conspiracy are unwilling to consider anything that they would consider to be outside the mainstream.

Just a couple of points. The "Jewish" conspiracy is hardly "the favourite"
And it needs to be said that you say its impossible that these could exist without someone spilling the beans. Well aside from the fact that whoever organised them would'nt pick any old Bozo off the street and would know and be able to control the individuals invovled, how would people begin to talk about them. Perhaps By someone in one way or another leaking information?

I believe wilkshire is saying that those who are dismissive of anything that could qualify as a conspiracy are unwilling to consider anything that they would consider to be outside the mainstream.

Just a couple of points. The "Jewish" conspiracy is hardly "the favourite"
And it needs to be said that you say its impossible that these could exist without someone spilling the beans. Well aside from the fact that whoever organised them would'nt pick any old Bozo off the street and would know and be able to control the individuals invovled, how would people begin to talk about them. Perhaps By someone in one way or another leaking information?Add into it that a conspiracy doesn't have to be secret--the people who leak the conspiracy just have to be able to be demonized sufficiently so that they won't be believed.

Take Watergate for instance. The problem wasn't that the conspiracy leaked. It was completely possible that Nixon would have survived except for one problem--the committee found out about the taping system. Until all of John Dean's testimony was confirmed by Nixon himself, CREEP had done a good job of discrediting him.

Hell, look at the treatment of anyone who has dared to come out against this President. There's a pattern--they're crazy or they're out for a book deal or they're disgruntled. It's all slam and slur and never take them on about what they're actually arguing about, and if you can make them look bad, then few people actually listen to what they're saying.

Garaj what do you define as a Global conspiracy. Do you mean as in Schizophrenic delusions? Or proven organisations and networks like Eschelon. Do you define it was a class of concepts, or individual issues and possibilities.

I was just speaking in unscientific terms about the imaginary conspiratorial bogey-men that some paranoid people seem convinced control the entire planet and everybody on it. Some examples:

The United Nations "conspiracy"
The homosexual "agenda"
The Liberal "agenda"
The Jewish "conspiracy"
The secular-humanist "agenda"
The "Globalist/World Government Conspiracy"
The "Race-mixing conspiracy" ( or whatever they call it)
The Feminist "agenda"
The Environmentalist "agenda"

Again, the idea that people would form into vast international groups which are secretly & effectively plotting to overthrow all existing governments. corporations & religions is not only silly, it's impossible and unworkable. It assumes enough people are capable of thinking alike and cooperatively to enact political actions on a global scale when this is clealr impossible.

The United Nations "conspiracy"
The homosexual "agenda"
The Liberal "agenda"
The Jewish "conspiracy"
The secular-humanist "agenda"
The "Globalist/World Government Conspiracy"
The "Race-mixing conspiracy" ( or whatever they call it)
The Feminist "agenda"
The Environmentalist "agenda"
The Stephen Harper "agenda"

Well I dont really believe in those but its certainly not impossible.
Afterall intelligence agencies organise without being detected.

ITs easy to organise political conspiracies, you conspire through a network of friends, you know people wo know people and can introduce you or send messages to them. And they dont need to know about the conspiracy or be sympathetic to it to favours for you. Manipulation and coersion would be key.

Some might know and not care, or wouldnt dob you in because no one would listen to you or you have similar arrangements of your own and dont want to bring attention to the subjects. Factions. They exist.

The sort you list are usually invented by "Sub persusasions" to reasure themselves that there is a tangible enemy for them to combat.
They usually repressent everything your sub persusasion dislikes. Case in point the united nations conspiracy. But the Wacko right has got a lot of those you listed rolled into one as the UN conspiracy.