NationStates Jolt Archive

We've seen many of these already occur. I say, "Rise up America, better dead than red."



http://www.restoringamerica.org/documents/45_goals_of_communism.html


Current Communist Goals
EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Thursday, January 10, 1963
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.

At Mrs. Nordman's request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following "Current Communist Goals," which she identifies as an excerpt from "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen:

CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

Word! The Commies are braying for American blood (and for innocent Christian babies as an appetiser). First, check under your bed to see if any are hiding there, then go flush out that UN invasion force & black helicopters hiding in the caves of Kansas. :lol:

[Do NOT link to somethingawful. At all. Ever.]

i. hate. my. life.

The cold war is over. You are so afraid of a fallen enemy that you fail to see the clear and present danger: the US government itself.

P.S. my militia can kick your militia's ass.

The cold war is over. You are so afraid of a fallen enemy that you fail to see the clear and present danger: the US government itself.

P.S. my militia can kick your militia's ass.

i think you just kind of proved his point. btw, i like the new anti-arrow/texastambul...... and dont be dissin my militia boy :wink:

The cold war is over. You are so afraid of a fallen enemy that you fail to see the clear and present danger: the US government itself.

P.S. my militia can kick your militia's ass.


The cold war is only over in the sense that the USSR is dead. Communism is alive and flourishes as the New World Order. The UN, NATO, and the USA are all major parts of the NWO plan.

...which is controlled by the Vatican which in turn is ruled by SATAN, right?

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v238/prophet4profit/chickfired.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v238/prophet4profit/chickfired.gif

yes, its very..... lovely. but arent you spamming now?

...which is controlled by the Vatican which in turn is ruled by SATAN, right?





No, not at all.

...which is controlled by the Vatican which in turn is ruled by SATAN, right?





No, not at all.
Who is it, then? The ZOG? The Stone Owl of Bohemia (I must admit, I have a soft spot for this particular ...canard)?

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Comin' for to carry me home!
(to my milisha la-la land)

...which is controlled by the Vatican which in turn is ruled by SATAN, right?





No, not at all.
Who is it, then? The ZOG? The Stone Owl of Bohemia (I must admit, I have a soft spot for this particular ...canard)?

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Comin' for to carry me home!
(to my milisha la-la land)


Both ZOG and Bohemian Grove (The Bohemian Club), also Freemasonry, Skull and Bones, and a few others.

The goal of communism is to turn us all into mindless worker bees who agree about everything. Capitalism too.

I have no alternatives. Monarchism? Socialism? Same thing. Every political system wants to destroy all others. Why people can't just let others live how they want?

Death to integration!

I have no alternatives.

No alternatives, they are called theocracy, monarchy, and fascism. Pick one.

Both ZOG and Bohemian Grove (The Bohemian Club), also Freemasonry, Skull and Bones, and a few others...which are all creatures of the Vatican, which in turn serves Satan. It's the Six Degrees of Jack Chick.

Skull and Bones, eh? So are you saying that GW Bush is a communist?

Both ZOG and Bohemian Grove (The Bohemian Club), also Freemasonry, Skull and Bones, and a few others...which are all creatures of the Vatican, which in turn serves Satan. It's the Six Degrees of Jack Chick.

Skull and Bones, eh? So are you saying that GW Bush is a communist?


George W Bush is a Globalist NWO, which is a form of communism.

...which was created by the Jesuits, which is a tool of the Vatican, which in turn serves Satan. It all adds up. But where do the Visitors come in, Jack?

I have no alternatives.

No alternatives, they are called theocracy, monarchy, and fascism. Pick one.

But they're just as bad. For the sake of brevity, I merely suggested every political system ever as opposed to writing out a huge list.

Decive Action, you've got to be kidding! This crap is something out of the Mc Carthy era! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Decive Action, you've got to be kidding! This crap is something out of the Mc Carthy era! :lol: :lol: :lol:



Actually, the honorable Senator Joseph McCarthy (may he rest in peace) died in 1957. But we must carry on the struggle against communism, the struggle that he devoted his life to.

I have no alternatives.

No alternatives, they are called theocracy, monarchy, and fascism. Pick one.

But they're just as bad. For the sake of brevity, I merely suggested every political system ever ...which is controlled by the Vatican, which in turn serves Satan :lol:

#It's amazing how peoples take the odd external similarity between two ideologys and take to mean the aims of both are the same.

Globalization is the result of the pressure to expand on markets for profit and aquisition of cheaper reasources or workerforces to equally highten profit.

The Communist idea of a glodal revolution has a different aim, in it's theory, even though up till now all advocates with any real power apart from Trotsky (and to a lesser extent Lenin for a while i guess) only wanted an imperialist version, Imperialism being an extenstion on Capitalism. The aim of a global one is that Capitalist globalisation was spread and united the globe in it's ethos that if revoult was to begin it would quickly spread as condiitons and oppression would be similar if not identical in all countrys as Capitalism have grown to it's fullest.

Both are the same on the surface, it's the underlying push factors and reasos u got to look at.

And yeh, it does look like some Mc.Carthite era bullshit 2.

The vatican doesn't serve satan.

Decive Action, you've got to be kidding! This crap is something out of the Mc Carthy era! :lol: :lol: :lol:



Actually, the honorable Senator Joseph McCarthy (may he rest in peace) died in 1957. But we must carry on the struggle against communism, the struggle that he devoted his life to.

Umm. . .yeah. . .[backs away slowly and doesn't make eye contact] Sure. . .whatever you say. . .

But seriously!, the man was a nut-case!!

But seriously!, the man was a nut-case!!


He was and still is a hero to all freedom minded people. Only the communists feared him, only the communists hate him.

The vatican doesn't serve satan.Ha! You have obviously been brainwashed by the communists. You communist!

But seriously!, the man was a nut-case!!


He was and still is a hero to all freedom minded people. Only the communists feared him, only the communists hate him.

Oh please. The man was an idiot. He accused 256 people of being communists who were already on the FBI list, the vast majority of whom had already been cleared of the ridiculous allegations.

Decive Action, you've got to be kidding! This crap is something out of the Mc Carthy era! :lol: :lol: :lol:



Actually, the honorable Senator Joseph McCarthy (may he rest in peace) died in 1957. But we must carry on the struggle against communism, the struggle that he devoted his life to. Joseph McCarthy fought communism with censorship and imprisonment of activists, is that the way you want to continue the fight?

Decive Action, you've got to be kidding! This crap is something out of the Mc Carthy era! :lol: :lol: :lol:



Actually, the honorable Senator Joseph McCarthy (may he rest in peace) died in 1957. But we must carry on the struggle against communism, the struggle that he devoted his life to. Joseph McCarthy fought communism with censorship and imprisonment of activists, is that the way you want to continue the fight?

No, I want to take it many steps further. McCarthy was a good start, but he was too soft.

Decive Action, you've got to be kidding! This crap is something out of the Mc Carthy era! :lol: :lol: :lol:



Actually, the honorable Senator Joseph McCarthy (may he rest in peace) died in 1957. But we must carry on the struggle against communism, the struggle that he devoted his life to. Joseph McCarthy fought communism with censorship and imprisonment of activists, is that the way you want to continue the fight?

Decive Action, you've got to be kidding! This crap is something out of the Mc Carthy era! :lol: :lol: :lol:



Actually, the honorable Senator Joseph McCarthy (may he rest in peace) died in 1957. But we must carry on the struggle against communism, the struggle that he devoted his life to. Joseph McCarthy fought communism with censorship and imprisonment of activists, is that the way you want to continue the fight?

No, I want to take it many steps further. McCarthy was a good start, but he was too soft. I think I just lost a whole lot of respect for you...

Decive Action, you've got to be kidding! This crap is something out of the Mc Carthy era! :lol: :lol: :lol:



Actually, the honorable Senator Joseph McCarthy (may he rest in peace) died in 1957. But we must carry on the struggle against communism, the struggle that he devoted his life to. Joseph McCarthy fought communism with censorship and imprisonment of activists, is that the way you want to continue the fight?

No, I want to take it many steps further. McCarthy was a good start, but he was too soft. I think I just lost a whole lot of respect for you...

We need to stop communism, look what it has done. Cambodia, China, Soviet Union, Cuba, Latin America, South America, Africa. I think communism has probably killed over 100 million people. We are certain at least 20-30 million died in the USSR alone from it. If a few communists have to be thrown in jail and locked up forever to stop it from spreading to the USA and causing millions of deaths, well then it must be so. We cannot allow communism to spread, not after what it has done.

Oh no here comes one now, WHERE WHERE they all shout.
...It is me that is right I am a commie bastard and I am pleased to see most of the list comeing true, for example the us econemy is now nearly compleatly relyant on The Peoples Republic Of China and. Putin is compleatly ruining capitili$m in Russia wich will soon bring about communism in Russia and many foemer soviet states are alredy begining to lean toward communism, Moldova for one has elected communsim.

Alright, you want to fight "CAWMMUNIZM!", why not start with the Chinese? (yes they aren't Communists folks, any more than Stalin was, but anyway) Or are they a bit too big and tough for you? Aww, is the poor little boy afraid the big nasty PLA might beat him? Pathetic. You claim to be a supporter of freedom by curtailing it. "We had to burn the village to save it," eh? Idiot. Tell you what, you want to fight Cawmmunizm? come for me first, mate, and we'll see what happens then. :x

Decisive Action. I considered writing a long post advocating a Democratic Marxist point of view, and also that of the fundamental and inalienable right of people to utilise their freedom to choose which ideology to follow in *any* democracy. However, I decided not to waste my time with someone who obviously has no idea of the ground theory behind communist thought, and most likely couldn't care to either, safe in his artificial ego that tells him constantly that America is infallible and can do no wrong....and if anyone disagrees with you, they are homosexual French pinko commie pansies....right?
:roll:

We need to stop communism, look what it has done. Cambodia, China, Soviet Union, Cuba, Latin America, South America, Africa. I think communism has probably killed over 100 million people. We are certain at least 20-30 million died in the USSR alone from it. If a few communists have to be thrown in jail and locked up forever to stop it from spreading to the USA and causing millions of deaths, well then it must be so. We cannot allow communism to spread, not after what it has done. Yes we do but I think open debate is a far better way then suppression and imprisonment. In a democracy we need to have free speech, and all who have political opinions must be able to utter them. If people agree with the communists then fine, communism it is.

But seriously!, the man was a nut-case!!


He was and still is a hero to all freedom minded people. Only the communists feared him, only the communists hate him.

No! Anyone who possessed a notochord feared him!!

Alright, you want to fight "CAWMMUNIZM!", why not start with the Chinese? (yes they aren't Communists folks, any more than Stalin was, but anyway) Or are they a bit too big and tough for you? Aww, is the poor little boy afraid the big nasty PLA might beat him? Pathetic. You claim to be a supporter of freedom by curtailing it. "We had to burn the village to save it," eh? Idiot. Tell you what, you want to fight Cawmmunizm? come for me first, mate, and we'll see what happens then. :x

Well, you have a brain. . .

We need to stop communism, look what it has done. Cambodia, China, Soviet Union, Cuba, Latin America, South America, Africa. I think communism has probably killed over 100 million people. We are certain at least 20-30 million died in the USSR alone from it. If a few communists have to be thrown in jail and locked up forever to stop it from spreading to the USA and causing millions of deaths, well then it must be so. We cannot allow communism to spread, not after what it has done.

You know, it's kinda strange. . .I really don't see many tee-pees or longhouses in the US or Canada anymore. . .

Decisive Action. I considered writing a long post advocating a Democratic Marxist point of view, and also that of the fundamental and inalienable right of people to utilise their freedom to choose which ideology to follow in *any* democracy. However, I decided not to waste my time with someone who obviously has no idea of the ground theory behind communist thought, and most likely couldn't care to either, safe in his artificial ego that tells him constantly that America is infallible and can do no wrong....and if anyone disagrees with you, they are homosexual French pinko commie pansies....right?
:roll:

Ha! Great post Kanabia!

It shows the lack of caliber in the enemies, Stalinist, Capitalist, Facist and plain idiots who we face today.
Without fully understanding your enemy, regardless of the situation, how can you understand what drives thme and what they aim at?

Read Arthur Millers The Crucible (a play) , the Mc.Carthite era was yet another stain on Americas declining history. You started so well aswell!
Herd mentality and playing on peoples base fears was all the man accumplished, if you want a seriosue debate justify your position before we continue.

The Socialist regimes in Colombia and Cuba I know to be good solid ones from private reasurch into as many sources as i can find. Ironicaly it's the American anti-Communist ones that wield more stats&facts most of the time!
And how many fucking times more! STALIN AND HIS AUTHORITARIAN ILK WERE ABOUT AS TRULY COMMUNIST AS HITLERS NATIONAL SOCIALIST PARTY WAS MARXIST!
Get a gorunding in the historical truth before having such extrewmist views.

Interesting point, the other day it was revealed that child mortality rates are higher in Washington DC than in all of Cuba.
Incidently, the struggles in Africa, S.America and to an extent in the Far east were a reaction to American Capitalist Imperialism. Read up on the history of S.America especily, it was the US toppeling democratic regimes and putting bloodbaths and tyrannys in there place, not the Communists.
Right now, a mix of American military units, Colombian Govt. loosly controlled militias and Corperate mercinarys 'pro-active security forces' continue the now lower scaled fight against FARC.

Many horrible tyrannical and un-Marxist things have been done in the name of Communism, what a so obvciously ignorant person as yourself seems to not understand is that you get power hungry bastards in every society (incidently b/c the world is not ready for any true attempt at Communism as Marx's conditions have not been reached) , if it seems being in the Party is the best route to power then so be it.
basicaly DONT BE SO SIMPLISTIC! LIFE IS NOT AS BLACK AND WHITE!
Thank you,
Hobo.

(wipes eyes)

Man, that was hilarious. There's material for a whole expansion set for Illuminati! in here.

We've seen many of these already occur. I say, "Rise up America, better dead than red."


Does it occur to you that the goals of "communism" might have changed since the collapse of the USSR? Did it occur to you that there might be no such global movement anyway, but only communists in different countries?

Surely the evidence of the Stalin-Tito or the Sino-Soviet splits ought to demonstrate that treating 'Communism' as a single entity is deeply misleading. In the 1970s, "Red" China fought "Red" Vietnam! Later, "Red" Vietnam overthrew the "Reds" in Cambodia!

But I'm sure you studied all the evidence really carefully. Your comments about McCarthy are fascinating: did you know him well?

Has anyone else noticed that Decisive Action has said nothing about the Giant Alien Lizards who run our world? Maybe he's one of them. :shock:

Has anyone else noticed that Decisive Action has said nothing about the Giant Alien Lizards who run our world? Maybe he's one of them. :shock:

http://www.reptilianagenda.com/img/pics/dragontn.jpg

Apparently there is one here. Damned if I can see it though

What that looks more like, is that the photographer shoved the camera in someones face, and they hocked up some phlegm and spat it at him.

Has anyone else noticed that Decisive Action has said nothing about the Giant Alien Lizards who run our world? Maybe he's one of them. :shock:

Actually my race, the Sskiss and the Sakkra are the closest things to giant alien lizards on this forum :lol:

[Do NOT link to somethingawful. At all. Ever.]

i. hate. my. life.

uh... it wasnt offensive... even in the slightest :? :(

What that looks more like, is that the photographer shoved the camera in someones face, and they hocked up some phlegm and spat it at him.

Most possibly. But according to David Icke there is a lizard man there.

I think it is meant to be this.

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6847/dragontn.jpg

Some see what they want to see I guess.

Has anyone else noticed that Decisive Action has said nothing about the Giant Alien Lizards who run our world? Maybe he's one of them. :shock:

Actually my race, the Sskiss and another race called the Sakkra are the closest things to giant alien lizards on this forum :lol:

The Socialist regimes in Colombia and Cuba I know to be good solid ones from private reasurch into as many sources as i can find. Ironicaly it's the American anti-Communist ones that wield more stats&facts most of the time!


Colombia good? Are you insane, Colombia is ranked as the 1st or 2nd most dangerous country in the wolrd (South Africa and Colombia are neck in neck for 1st). The murder rate in Colombia is 66 per 100,000 that is 11 x the USA. The kidnapping rate is horrendous as well.

The Colombian government cannot even control most areas outside of major cities, the leftist guerilla movement FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia) numbers over 10,000 at least. Also the other leftist guerilla movement, National Liberation Army (ELN) has at least 3,000 guerillas.

Then there is the largest of the right wing paramilitary movements AUC (United Self Defense Forces of Colombia) numbers over 15,000 at least. As Carlos Castano, the noble leader of AUC once said, "We fight the guerillas because the state is not strong enough to."

All 3 groups are designated as "FTO" (Foreign Terrorist Organizations) by the US State Department. The reasons ELN and FARC are on the list are obvious, they attack and kill US citizens in Colombia. AUC is mostly on the list for massacres against FARC supporters.

Activities

AUC: operations vary from assassinating suspected insurgent supporters to engaging FARC and ELN combat units. Castano has publicly claimed that 70 percent of the AUC’s operational costs are financed with drug-related earnings, the rest from “donations” from its sponsors. The AUC generally avoids actions against US personnel or interests.



Activities

FARC: Bombings, murder, mortar attacks, narcotrafficking, kidnapping, extortion, hijacking, as well as guerrilla and conventional military action against Colombian political, military, and economic targets. In March 1999, the FARC executed three US Indian rights activists on Venezuelan territory after it kidnapped them in Colombia. In February 2003, the FARC captured and continues to hold three US contractors and killed one other American and a Colombian when their plane crashed in Florencia. Foreign citizens often are targets of FARC kidnapping for ransom. The FARC has well-documented ties to the full range of narcotics trafficking activities, including taxation, cultivation, and distribution.


Activities

ELN: Kidnapping, hijacking, bombing, and extortion. Minimal conventional military capability. Annually conducts hundreds of kidnappings for ransom, often targeting foreign employees of large corporations, especially in the petroleum industry. Derives some revenue from taxation of the illegal narcotics industry. Frequently assaults energy infrastructure and has inflicted major damage on pipelines and the electric distribution network. In September, the ELN kidnapped eight foreign tourists, but they have all since either escaped or been released.





In Cuba youths pick beans for 6 days, on Sunday they are allowed to go home and visit their families, then Monday, it's right back to the beans. Hardly fulfilling.

What "Private Reasurch" might you be talking back, I can tell you if you use real research you will discover that Latin America is basically a mess of banana republics and mostly unstable ones.

You have confused state capitalism and communism.

-----------------------------------------
"The [Nazi] Party is based on the fundamental principle of
private property" - Adolf Hitler (What does that say about capitalism?)
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

Does it occur to you that the goals of "communism" might have changed since the collapse of the USSR? Did it occur to you that there might be no such global movement anyway, but only communists in different countries?
It's worse than that; these "45 goals' were written up by a former FBI agent in 1958, in a book apparently promulgated by wingnuts across space and time (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1568493673?v=glance).

To people like DA, nothing has changed in his worldview since 1958. (Which may explain his extremist position on McCarthy, a pro-lying position endorsed by Ann Coulter as well.)

The Socialist regimes in Colombia and Cuba I know to be good solid ones from private reasurch into as many sources as i can find. Ironicaly it's the American anti-Communist ones that wield more stats&facts most of the time!


Colombia good? Are you insane, Colombia is ranked as the 1st or 2nd most dangerous country in the wolrd (South Africa and Colombia are neck in neck for 1st). The murder rate in Colombia is 66 per 100,000 that is 11 x the USA. The kidnapping rate is horrendous as well.

Hey, I was making a sweeping generalisation:) I meant good considering how the other attempts have ended up, any progress is progress no?
Well, Columbias been in a state of civil war for around half a centurary so it's still an effective warzone. didn't say it was a Socialist utopia, just saying for a militant based Marxist group it's been quite good in it's dealings with the peoples in thier regions- Not truly Marxist sure(still in a state of war) but not Stalinist by a long shot.




The Colombian government cannot even control most areas outside of major cities, the leftist guerilla movement FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia) numbers over 10,000 at least. Also the other leftist guerilla movement, National Liberation Army (ELN) has at least 3,000 guerillas.

More for FARC, the civilian militia in their regions boost it way, way up there, FARC can call upon, this is US stats, up to 30,000 active troops to mobilize for a direct military action, even if many are militia.
True, but the Columbian Govt. is gneraly accepted as a corrupt oppresive puppet state for the US and the corperate interests within Columbia.


Then there is the largest of the right wing paramilitary movements AUC (United Self Defense Forces of Colombia) numbers over 15,000 at least. As Carlos Castano, the noble leader of AUC once said, "We fight the guerillas because the state is not strong enough to."

True, the 3rd element of anngry brutal and merciless butchers known as the AUC are a strange factor. Originaly co-funded and supported by the Columbian Govt and the US, they became more independant in there actions and had the tendancey to wipe out entire villages of FARC supporters at a time, since then both have distanced themselves from the AUC. THe noble leader you speak of is known to have slayed several women and children in the earlier raids on FARC territory&villages.
Most noble indeed, a groups that kills EVERYONE in an enemy region.
Too extreme even for the US to support.



All 3 groups are designated as "FTO" (Foreign Terrorist Organizations) by the US State Department. The reasons ELN and FARC are on the list are obvious, they attack and kill US citizens in Colombia. AUC is mostly on the list for massacres against FARC supporters.

True.
But, lets be fair, the corperations in Columbia like many other S.American states and the ambiguously termed 'Security Forces' in Africa, have many large and bloody well armed mercenry units they use to protect and enforce their interest directly. FARC is well documented for kidnapping and killing corrupt, puppet-Govt officials and corperate executives.



Activities

AUC: operations vary from assassinating suspected insurgent supporters to engaging FARC and ELN combat units. Castano has publicly claimed that 70 percent of the AUC’s operational costs are financed with drug-related earnings, the rest from “donations” from its sponsors. The AUC generally avoids actions against US personnel or interests.

It still recives a low level arms funding form the US military forces present in Columbia in the bases along the boarder.
AUC wipes out entire villages. No more realy needs to be added.


Activities

FARC: Bombings, murder, mortar attacks, narcotrafficking, kidnapping, extortion, hijacking, as well as guerrilla and conventional military action against Colombian political, military, and economic targets. In March 1999, the FARC executed three US Indian rights activists on Venezuelan territory after it kidnapped them in Colombia. In February 2003, the FARC captured and continues to hold three US contractors and killed one other American and a Colombian when their plane crashed in Florencia. Foreign citizens often are targets of FARC kidnapping for ransom. The FARC has well-documented ties to the full range of narcotics trafficking activities, including taxation, cultivation, and distribution.

I) FARC has fucked up, no one denies that. The killing of the indian activits is a stain it is well aware off and it is carful not to repeat that incident
II)FARC does NOT cultivate or distrobute natcostics, read this good summery essay on this issue: http://www.tni.org/drugs/pubs/farc.htm

What they do is tax them, when they go through FARC land, and tax them for protection pay so that US crop dusters dont destroy the only crop the farmers can gain a subsistance level profit off


Activities

ELN: Kidnapping, hijacking, bombing, and extortion. Minimal conventional military capability. Annually conducts hundreds of kidnappings for ransom, often targeting foreign employees of large corporations, especially in the petroleum industry. Derives some revenue from taxation of the illegal narcotics industry. Frequently assaults energy infrastructure and has inflicted major damage on pipelines and the electric distribution network. In September, the ELN kidnapped eight foreign tourists, but they have all since either escaped or been released.

My info on the ELN is not great, though attacking US owned corperate setups, in personel or owned property, seems like a perfectly decent form of rebelion against US dominacne of the country. I suggest 'How Mumbo-Jumbo Conquered the World' by Francis Ween, there's a seciton there I belive on the corrupt corperate dealings with S.America and esp. Columbia.



In Cuba youths pick beans for 6 days, on Sunday they are allowed to go home and visit their families, then Monday, it's right back to the beans. Hardly fulfilling.

What "Private Reasurch" might you be talking back, I can tell you if you use real research you will discover that Latin America is basically a mess of banana republics and mostly unstable ones.

You and I don't know that. Back in the 30's the US Govt drafted young unemployed men into labour brigades and set them off for many mounths at a time to go work for pittance withough allowing them back after they signed up. Wiether they enjoyed it, put up with it, hated it or thought it was as good a way as any to get fed&clothed by the state while gaining a small salary who knows.

Latin America is a mess, I never claimed otherwise.
But look at the level of US involvment in creating the chaos in Latin America over the last 6 decades.
The few times were the socialist movments did survive before the US crushing it, it's youngest form in most of LAtin america seemed to be grassroots democratic support, even if it was generaly nationalist.
I just imagine what it could have been like if it wasn't for US involvment.

True, the 3rd element of anngry brutal and merciless butchers known as the AUC are a strange factor. Originaly co-funded and supported by the Columbian Govt and the US, they became more independant in there actions and had the tendancey to wipe out entire villages of FARC supporters at a time, since then both have distanced themselves from the AUC. THe noble leader you speak of is known to have slayed several women and children in the earlier raids on FARC territory&villages.
Most noble indeed, a groups that kills EVERYONE in an enemy region.
Too extreme even for the US to support.


It still recives a low level arms funding form the US military forces present in Columbia in the bases along the boarder.
AUC wipes out entire villages. No more realy needs to be added.




You are obviously a communist because you gloss over anything FARC does but you condemn the brave and gallant self-defense forces of the AUC.

The cold war is over. The communist got their collective butts kicked by us. And lets face it Communism in Cuba is failing, it is only a mater of time before NK falls to capitilism and now we are at war with nationalism again. Also Communism has been destroyed in Eastern Europe, Germany and Russia. Lets face it, it is to utopian. Communism is for idealist but they are to naive to reliese it contridicts human nature and will never work.

The cold war is over. The communist got their collective butts kicked by us. And lets face it Communism in Cuba is failing, it is only a mater of time before NK falls to capitilism and now we are at war with nationalism again. Also Communism has been destroyed in Eastern Europe, Germany and Russia. Lets face it, it is to utopian. Communism is for idealist but they are to naive to reliese it contridicts human nature and will never work.

The cold war is over. The communist got their collective butts kicked by us. And lets face it Communism in Cuba is failing, it is only a mater of time before NK falls to capitilism and now we are at war with nationalism again. Also Communism has been destroyed in Eastern Europe, Germany and Russia. Lets face it, it is to utopian. Communism is for idealist but they are to naive to reliese it contridicts human nature and will never work.

The cold war is over. The communist got their collective butts kicked by us. And lets face it Communism in Cuba is failing, it is only a mater of time before NK falls to capitilism and now we are at war with nationalism again. Also Communism has been destroyed in Eastern Europe, Germany and Russia. Lets face it, it is to utopian. Communism is for idealist but they are to naive to reliese it contridicts human nature and will never work.


Communism is not dead, it simply openly died because it wasn't working openly, it is now the NWO and is secret.

You are obviously a communist because you gloss over anything FARC does but you condemn the brave and gallant self-defense forces of the AUC.

Yeah, I'm sure those women and children were asking for death by living on communist territory. :roll:

The cold war is over. The communist got their collective butts kicked by us. And lets face it Communism in Cuba is failing, it is only a mater of time before NK falls to capitilism and now we are at war with nationalism again. Also Communism has been destroyed in Eastern Europe, Germany and Russia. Lets face it, it is to utopian. Communism is for idealist but they are to naive to reliese it contridicts human nature and will never work.


Communism is not dead, it simply openly died because it wasn't working openly, it is now the NWO and is secret.

Then how do you know so much about it.

Yeah, I'm sure those women and children were asking for death by living on communist territory. :roll:

They were agitating and providing provisions to the communist guerillas.

Yeah, I'm sure those women and children were asking for death by living on communist territory. :roll:

They were agitating and providing provisions to the communist guerillas.So you justify the killing of children DA? I want to thank you. Poisonous sociopaths like you are the best recruitment tactic the Left could ever have.

Yeah, I'm sure those women and children were asking for death by living on communist territory. :roll:

They were agitating and providing provisions to the communist guerillas.So you justify the killing of children DA? I want to thank you. Poisonous sociopaths like you are the best recruitment tactic the Left could ever have.


No, I never advocate killing non-combatants, but when you're platoon has just been shot up, and the villagers are hiding weapons, you discover the "Women" were firing RPGS, children come to greet your men, only to blow themselves up and taking a few of your men in the process. The thing is, you don't know sh-- about war, when you know what war is. There are often no non-combatants in war.

Yeah, I'm sure those women and children were asking for death by living on communist territory. :roll:

They were agitating and providing provisions to the communist guerillas.So you justify the killing of children DA? I want to thank you. Poisonous sociopaths like you are the best recruitment tactic the Left could ever have.


No, I never advocate killing non-combatants, but when you're platoon has just been shot up, and the villagers are hiding weapons, you discover the "Women" were firing RPGS, children come to greet your men, only to blow themselves up and taking a few of your men in the process. The thing is, you don't know sh-- about war, when you know what war is. There are often no non-combatants in war.Then why don't you go over there and help 'em out big man? Bloody keyboard warrior. :roll:

Yeah, I'm sure those women and children were asking for death by living on communist territory. :roll:

They were agitating and providing provisions to the communist guerillas.So you justify the killing of children DA? I want to thank you. Poisonous sociopaths like you are the best recruitment tactic the Left could ever have.


No, I never advocate killing non-combatants, but when you're platoon has just been shot up, and the villagers are hiding weapons, you discover the "Women" were firing RPGS, children come to greet your men, only to blow themselves up and taking a few of your men in the process. The thing is, you don't know sh-- about war, when you know what war is. There are often no non-combatants in war.Then why don't you go over there and help 'em out big man? Bloody keyboard warrior. :roll:


When the war happened in the mid 1990s I was still in middle school.

Then why don't you go over there and help 'em out big man? Bloody keyboard warrior. :roll:


I realize without formal combat training and experience that there would be little I could do. Which is one of the reasons I intend to get into the army officer program.

Then why don't you go over there and help 'em out big man? Bloody keyboard warrior. :roll:


I realize without formal combat training and experience that there would be little I could do. Which is one of the reasons I intend to get into the army officer program.

Listen the reds are done with the got their collective butts kicked because communism is just plain stupid and it is for dreamers. It conflicts with human nature and is always going to be destroyed

So their real goal is to get into power. So far it's staying on the asheap of history.

One of the funniest threads of had the pleasure of reading for a long time. Reactionary forces are never heroes, and never have been. They fight for control, not an ideal, and so only need to intimidate people. I doubt Defensive Action(a perfect name for a reactionary) knows anything about the massive PR campaign that was the M-26-7, the group led by Fidel Castro to overthrow the repressive Batista regime.

Only in one place(near the Escambray Mountains) did the armed revolutionary forces become corrupt, but generally the took the island without any fighting. The armed forces disolved after a general strike.

Fidel may not even have joined forces with the Soviet Union if it hadn't been for Eisenhower's insane fear. Fidel was just a nationalist fighting for social improvement(not to be confused with national socialists, aka Nazis). We made him into a communist.

As for Cuba's collapse... I doubt it. Fidel managed to get Cuba through the 'Special Period' that followed the collapse of the Soviet Bloc. Cuba lost eighty percent of its trade overnight... the US would have collapsed under similar circumstances. But Fidel is not the revolution. When he dies, the Revolution will live on. All evidence points to support of his policies by the Cuban people, who have the best literacy rate in the world, and one of the best health care systems you could expect, given the blockcade.

Also, a closer look at all those refugees suggests they're looking for the good life promised them... and few actually find it. Of course, they can't go back; we wouldn't let them. At least in Cuba they were fed, given a home. Their standard of living isn't real high, but they've been under a blockade for fourty five years, and had almost no trading partners for twelve of them.

Arise, ye workers from you slumbers.
Arise, ye prisoners of want.
For reason in revolt now thunders,
And at last end the age of cant.
(The Internationale)

The Communist movement has been imploding. If you can't point to a success that still exists...

One of the funniest threads of had the pleasure of reading for a long time. Reactionary forces are never heroes, and never have been. They fight for control, not an ideal, and so only need to intimidate people. I doubt Defensive Action(a perfect name for a reactionary) knows anything about the massive PR campaign that was the M-26-7, the group led by Fidel Castro to overthrow the repressive Batista regime.



I know all about the oppressive Batista regime that was replaced by the oppressive Castro regime. They simply traded one tyrant for another. It was pretty much a popular uprising, nobody liked Batista, but he wouldn't resort to massacres to stay in power, Castro will and the people know it. That is why Castro is still in power.

Curiously, a search with the terms, "Massacre Fidel Castro," returns only the result of an incident in 1995, of which I am aware of no evidence pointing toward it either being his fault or a massacre. If you switch that to, "Human Rights Fidel Castro," you find more accusations, though the statistics are remarkably small for Cuba's population.

Does Cuba have 'free and fair' elections? Not by our standards, but that would be a good thing. It is recorded that he recieved ninety five percent of the vote in the last election. There was no opposition candidate.

It is, of course, possible to justify all Fidel's actions in precisely the same manner you justify the actions of your reactionary heroes. Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie requires the Dictatorship of the Proletariate in response. However, I will not do so; there is no excuse for any human rights abuses Fidel ordered, or failed to properly investigate.

Now, perhaps you'd be willing to tell me why you are so afraid of Marxism, which demands the full equality of all people, refuses to partake in exploitation, and places people entirely in charge of their own destiny. For the record, I have not asked your opinion of any past or present communist leader, but of a movement to establish true Marxist ideals. So don't give me that 'brutal dictator' garbage you people are so fond of.

I'm not afraid of a failed dying imploding ideology. I just like to watch it just fade away.

Communism is not dead, it simply openly died because it wasn't working openly, it is now the NWO and is secret.

Fascinating. Got any evidence? You've just made assertions (see above as if we're supposed to believe they're true, so I'm guessing not. If you have evidence I'd be interested to see it, unless it consists of a link to some stupid website.

Oh wait! A good conspiracy can never be proven...
How can you distinguish between a good conspiracy and paranoid raving?

Oh, DA, if you liked Joseph McCarthy's work and stance towards communism, you may also like to learn more about the following "heroes".

Hitler
Mussolini
Peron
Salazar
Franco
"Papa Doc" Duvalier
Pinochet
Park Chung-Hee
Suharto
Tojo
Horthy
Antonescu
Marcos
Mosley
Quisling
Pavelic
Khomenei
Hussein

All of whom spent their lives battling and repressing communism, either on a world level or within their own countries. I can probably think of more, but i'll leave it at that. I'm sure that if you don't admire these men, you clearly know little about their efforts to defeat the "Bolshevik menace". Theres your homework for today son, read up on them.

Enjoy....Comrade.

Oh, DA, if you liked Joseph McCarthy's work and stance towards communism, you may also like to learn more about the following "heroes".

Hitler
Mussolini
Peron
Salazar
Franco
"Papa Doc" Duvalier
Pinochet
Park Chung-Hee
Suharto
Tojo
Horthy
Antonescu
Marcos
Mosley
Quisling
Pavelic
Khomenei
Hussein

All of whom spent their lives battling and repressing communism, either on a world level or within their own countries. I can probably think of many more, but i'll leave it at that. I'm sure that if you don't admire these men, you clearly know little about their efforts to defeat the "Bolshevik menace". Theres your homework for today son, read up on them.

Enjoy....Comrade.

My Political view point: Right wing moderate
My view on communism: Good ideal, I do believe it is good. But until I see a working model I can't trust it.
My view on Cuba: I hope Fidel dies and a capatilist or communist for that matter democracy is put up.
Why do I want Fidel dead?: I'm Cuban and it's genetic.
What do I think of the Mc Arthurs?: Ignorant people that don't know
My main hate: Liberals that whine and don't work for change.
My age?: 15 and willing to learn.
Is communism dead?:You may kill the leader but you may never kill the idea.
Will capatilism die?: As long as greed exists it will not.
Should communism spread?: Sure why not?
Is Canada a real country?: Of course it is!

Feel free to flame away o.O

Oh, DA, if you liked Joseph McCarthy's work and stance towards communism, you may also like to learn more about the following "heroes".

Hitler
Mussolini
Peron
Salazar
Franco
"Papa Doc" Duvalier
Pinochet
Park Chung-Hee
Suharto
Tojo
Horthy
Antonescu
Marcos
Mosley
Quisling
Pavelic
Khomenei
Hussein

All of whom spent their lives battling and repressing communism, either on a world level or within their own countries. I can probably think of many more, but i'll leave it at that. I'm sure that if you don't admire these men, you clearly know little about their efforts to defeat the "Bolshevik menace". Theres your homework for today son, read up on them.

Enjoy....Comrade.




I already know all about most of them. Hell I even wrote an essay defending Saddam hussein.


The only ones I need to read about are
Park Chung-Hee
Suharto
Antonescu

Oh, DA, if you liked Joseph McCarthy's work and stance towards communism, you may also like to learn more about the following "heroes".

Hitler
Mussolini
Peron
Salazar
Franco
"Papa Doc" Duvalier
Pinochet
Park Chung-Hee
Suharto
Tojo
Horthy
Antonescu
Marcos
Mosley
Quisling
Pavelic
Khomenei
Hussein

All of whom spent their lives battling and repressing communism, either on a world level or within their own countries. I can probably think of many more, but i'll leave it at that. I'm sure that if you don't admire these men, you clearly know little about their efforts to defeat the "Bolshevik menace". Theres your homework for today son, read up on them.

Enjoy....Comrade.




I already know all about most of them. Hell I even wrote an essay defending Saddam hussein.


The only ones I need to read about are
Park Chung-Hee
Suharto
Antonescu

So am I correct in assuming you agree with their policies?

So am I correct in assuming you agree with their policies?


Yes, for the most part, yes.

So am I correct in assuming you agree with their policies?


Yes, for the most part, yes.

From the snakes mouth:

The man is a fascist.

My argument is concluded.

Oh, DA, if you liked Joseph McCarthy's work and stance towards communism, you may also like to learn more about the following "heroes".

Hitler
Mussolini
Peron
Salazar
Franco
"Papa Doc" Duvalier
Pinochet
Park Chung-Hee
Suharto
Tojo
Horthy
Antonescu
Marcos
Mosley
Quisling
Pavelic
Khomenei
Hussein

All of whom spent their lives battling and repressing communism, either on a world level or within their own countries. I can probably think of many more, but i'll leave it at that. I'm sure that if you don't admire these men, you clearly know little about their efforts to defeat the "Bolshevik menace". Theres your homework for today son, read up on them.

Enjoy....Comrade.

I know who Hussein, Marcos, Pavelic, Hitler, Mussolini, Duvalier,, Suharto, Pinocheti, Salazar and Franco are but who are the rest of those pchycos.

Khomeni was the ayatollah of Iran, Tojo was from Japan, the rest I don't know.

If I'm not mistaken, Antonio de Oliveira Salazar was the Portuguese leader who maintained what is called his "fascist" regime and he attempted to hold the colonies in Africa of Angola and Mozambique, but then he died in 1970 and shortly after his death, the fascist regime was toppled at home. Many say had he lived five or six years longer Rhodesia would have endured. Because Portugal under Salazar was one of the few nations helping Rhodesia.

Oswald Mosley was the leader of the British Union of Fascists.

Vidkun Quisling was the Norwegian who headed the puppet government made by the Nazis.

Who are Horthy and Antonescu?

If I'm not mistaken, Antonio de Oliveira Salazar was the Portuguese leader who maintained what is called his "fascist" regime and he attempted to hold the colonies in Africa of Angola and Mozambique, but then he died in 1970 and shortly after his death, the fascist regime was toppled at home. Many say had he lived five or six years longer Rhodesia would have endured. Because Portugal under Salazar was one of the few nations helping Rhodesia.


I think Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) would have stayed Rhodesia had Salazar not died. Ian Douglas Smith in his book, "The Great Betrayal" spoke highly of Antonio Salazar.

DA: You do realise that those men with whom you're in such agreement would have had you shot if you'd been foolish enough to say anything against them, right?

DA: You do realise that those men with whom you're in such agreement would have had you shot if you'd been foolish enough to say anything against them, right?


Not all of them would have done that, some of them were renowned for liking to engage in debate etc. And who could disagree with such grand people.

DA: You do realise that those men with whom you're in such agreement would have had you shot if you'd been foolish enough to say anything against them, right?


Not all of them would have done that, some of them were renowned for liking to engage in debate etc. And who could disagree with such grand people.
Yeah, they'd have a brisk debate first...then shoot you.
Whatever you say...Jack Chick.

Whats funny is that all of those, with maybe the exception of one or two, do not represent communism at all. If you want to find out about Communism, go and read the Manifesto itself, not the ideological babbling of a capitalist who thinks they know about Communism. Also, the Manifesto explains everything and the rationale for it in ways that might suprise most people. If they think that those are the 45 goals of communism, they are severly incorrect.

Admiral Horthy was the fascist leader of Hungary.
Antonescu was his Romanian counterpart.