NationStates Jolt Archive


In Defense of Saddam Hussein

North Romakia
17-06-2004, 07:34
-This is actually an article written by a friend of mine.-


In Defense of Saddam Hussein

Saddam Hussein is a man who is often condemned as a wretched tyrant, a beast, a madman, but lets take a look at the history of Saddam Hussein and see what he has achieved.

It is commonly accepted by most “mainstream” ignoramuses that Iraq started the Iran-Iraq war. But any honest historian will tell you that this is simply not true. The radical Shiite government of Iran under Ayatollah Khomeini essentially tore up a treaty with Iraq that guaranteed Iraq navigation rights on the Shatt-Al-Arab (A river channel, about 193 km (120 mi) long, of southeast Iraq formed by the confluence of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers and flowing southeast to the Persian Gulf. The Shatt al Arab forms part of the Iraq-Iran border, and navigation rights to the channel have long been disputed by the two countries).

With the navigation rights gone, the Iraqi economy would suffer greatly. Thus as is typical of Middle Eastern politics, Hussein ordered Iraqi units to make minor incursions into Iran to enhance his bargaining position. However the bargaining failed and thus began the Iran-Iraq war.

It must be remembered that several months before the Iraq invasion (invasion occurred on September 23rd 1980), that the Iranians attempted to assassinate numerous Iraqi officials. A timeline of events shortly before the actual war began is as follows, also included are events shortly after the war began. I also include shortly before the war ended. I apologize for skipping the middle, but the middle of the war was mostly attacks and counter-attacks, and stalemate for the most part.

February 1979, after 15 years of exile, Ayatollah Khomeini arrives in Tehran (capital of Iran), and his Revolutionary forces take over the government
.
June 1979, Revolutionary Regime in Iran urges Iraqis to rise against their rulers.

February 3rd, 1980, Bani Sadr takes office as Iran’s first president.

March 8th, 1980, Iran withdraws its ambassador from Iraq.

April 1st, 1980, Iran attempted to kill Iraqi Deputy Premier Tariq Aziz.

April 15th, 1980, Iran attempted to kill Iraqi Minister of Information Latif Nusseif al-Jasim.

May-August of 1980 clashes begin along Iran-Iraq border.

September 4th, 1980, Iran shells Khanaqin and Mandali.

September 23rd, 1980, Iraq invades Iran.

September 28th, 1980, Iraqi army units halt at the outskirts of Ahvaz and Susangerd (Both are major cities), and readies to accept a ceasefire with Iran.

October 5th, 1980, Iraq requests a ceasefire. Iran rejects the idea.

October 6th, 1980, Iraq besieges Khorramshahr (major city). Street fighting begins.

October 22nd, 1980, Iraq besieges Abadan (major city, very important for oil and flow of exports).

October 24th, 1980, Khorramshahr falls to Iraqi army.

January 5-11th, 1981, major Iranian counter-offensive around Susangerd fails.

June 7th, 1981, Israel destroys Iraq’s Osiraq nuclear reactor.


Iraq made only minor incursions into Iran. The notion that it only offered a cease-fire because it realized it had “Bitten off more than it could chew” is false, within a few weeks of the first Iraqi offer; they took Khorramshahr and besieged several other major cities. Saddam just wanted Iran to stop shelling Iraqi border towns, to stop arming and stirring up the Shiite and Kurd terrorists within Iraq, and to stop threatening Iraqi commerce on the Shatt-al-Arab. Saddam made no less than 10 declarations of wanting a ceasefire throughout the war. The UN ordered on less than 10 ceasefires. Iraq suggests ceasefires long before the 1981-1982 reversal of fortunes in the war and the invasion of Iraq by Iran.

Shortly after the initial Iraqi attacks Iran counter-attacked, around 1981-1982 Iran drove Iraq from Iranian territory and the war shifted into Iraq, it was mostly a static WW1 style war, with large losses and little appreciable gains.

On July 20th, 1987, UN Security Council passes Resolution 598, calling for withdrawal of Iranian and Iraqi forces back to the internationally recognized boundaries. Iraq welcomes the Resolution, but Iran rejects it.

On July 22nd, 1987, Kuwaiti oil tankers begin to fly the US flag and the tankers receive US Naval protection. Iran threatened to sink all ships in the Persian Gulf, so the Kuwaitis “lent” their ships to the USA.

On September 4th, 1987, Iran fired missiles into Kuwait,

On September 22nd, 1987, US ships attack and capture an Iranian mine-laying vessel with mines on board. The Iranians intended to lay mines in the Persian Gulf.

Through October 8-22 US Naval forces sink 3 Iranian patrol boats in the gulf. Iran fires at unprotected US-owned oil tankers. US destroys an disused Iranian oil platform.
January 14-15, 1988, Iran attacks 3 oil tankers in two days.

March 15-16, 1988, Iraqi forces recapture the Iraqi Kurdish town of Halabja; the attack was preceded by the use of a large amount of chemical weaponry by the Iraqi army.

April 18th, 1988, US Naval forces sink 6 Iranian warships.

July 13-17 1988, Iraqi forces launch massive counter attacks and drive Iran from Iraqi soil and for the first time since 1982, Iraqi forces hold Iranian territory.

July 17th, 1988, Iran unconditionally accepts UN Resolution 598 and a ceasefire is declared.

Iran basically accepted because 1) Iraq had crossed into Iran again (the war was going badly for Iran at the moment). 2) Iraq threatened to hit Tehran (Iranian capital) with several hundred missiles with chemical weapon warheads unless Iran ended the war immediately.




During the Iran-Iraq war, we must remember that essentially the West, the USA, and the U.S.S.R. all backed Iraq. Basically only Libya, Syria, and North Korea backed Iran. Khomeini publicly spoke of spreading the Islamic Revolution throughout the Middle East, he was a man bent on expansionism of Shiite Islamic values. He had to be stopped, and Saddam’s Iraq went to bat and stopped him, but only at great cost to Iraq. From 1980-1988, Saddam had to fight to save Iraq from a massive Iranian invasion, it was a seesaw war for the most part, where one side would make a few small gains, and then lose them shortly thereafter.

In January of 1987, Iran launched a massive assault against Al-Basra (Codenamed Karbala 5). Iraq only managed to hold Basra because they used MASSIVE quantities of Chemical Weapons (Blister and Nerve agents, primarily Nitrogen Mustard and Sarin Gas).

It should also be remembered that during the war Iran violated UN Security Council Resolution 598, and thus the UN placed a general Arms Embargo on them. Iraq however was given all the weapons they needed. Iran was sinking neutral ships in the Persian Gulf in an attempt to strangle the Iraqi economy by hurting their trading partners. Iran was on a warpath and needed to be stopped. Iraq was willing to stop them, and ultimately Iraq’s efforts would be repaid by betrayal from her former supporters in the West.

In the matter with the Kurds and the Shiites in Iraq, they were rebels and as such one does not feel sorry when they are dealt with. Saddam dealt with them in a manner similar to how the Americans dealt with the Indians, or the Confederates. Or how the British dealt with the Scots, the Irish, and attempted to deal with the Americans. Saddam crushed the rebels, as one should attempt to do. The only problem was that he crushed them with chemical weapons, rather than just doing the politically correct thing and simply shooting them.

It should also be remembered that the US chemical companies that sold Saddam the precursors to make his chemical weapons did so with the approval of the US Government, even though in some cases it was tacit approval. They were sold largely as “Pesticides” and “Industrial Chemicals”. Let us not forget the weapons grade anthrax and botulinum that was delivered to Iraq courtesy of the USA. What did the USA think Saddam was going to use the Chemical Weapons for?

It should also be noted that France sold Iraq a nuclear reactor and that during the Iran-Iraq war, Iraq was going to use the nuclear reactor to build a power plant to vastly improve the quality of life of her people.

But in typical cowardly Israeli fashion, the Israeli Air Force launched raids destroyed the reactor After all; Israel was and still is “the only democracy in the Middle East” (it’s actually closer to an Orthodox Jewish theocracy). Also, why should gentiles (non-Jews) enjoy the benefits of nuclear power, the Talmud (the book that all Orthodox Jews, and many non-orthodox Jews go by) states that gentiles are just animals and nothing more. I cite the Talmud for proof of the contempt that Jews hold gentiles in.

Menahoth 43b-44a. A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a Gentile, a woman or a slave.

More can be found at the link below.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/talmud.htm#012


But the primary focus of this article is not to point out the flaws of Israel, if it was, this article would take up many thousands of pages. This article is to shed light on the real Saddam Hussein, not the media portrayal of Saddam as mass murderer and warmonger, but the true Saddam, a courageous politician, warrior, and dedicated Iraqi who stood firm to stop Iranian and Zionist aggression.

The Iran-Iraq war left the Iraqi economy largely in ruins and Iraq was deeply in debt, by 1988 Iraq owed over 100 billion to foreign creditors. In January of 1990, Saddam asked that one of his largest creditors (Kuwait) erase his debt since the debt had been incurred fighting a war to save nations like Kuwait from Iranian aggression.

Kuwait however refused to help Iraq; the nation that had endured 8 years of war was being snubbed… And that wasn’t the worst part; Kuwait was cheating on OPEC oil deals and producing much more oil than agreed to, the price dropped to $18 per barrel of oil. Iraq calculated that the price of $25 per barrel would really help boost the Iraqi economy, they asked Kuwait to abide by the agreements and cut production so the price would rise.

Kuwait wanted to flood the market with cheap oil so as to delay the development of alternative sources, and to make the world more dependent on Kuwait oil. Kuwait refused to cut production; they refused to abide by the agreement. Iraq simply sucked it up and tried to put a good face on a bad situation. Then it became known that Kuwait was directly stealing oil from Iraq by setting up drilling in the southern section of the Iraqi oilfields at al-Rumalia. Iraq was furious, as any nation would be.

Shortly after the revelations about the al-Rumalia oil thefts, Iraq began to amass soldiers on the border with Kuwait. Iraq demanded 10 billion dollars for the loss of oil from the al-Rumalia oilfields in exchange they would substantially reduce the size of the army on the border. Kuwait basically admitted that it was guilty as charged, but in what proved to be a poor decision, they insulted Iraq by agreeing to pay only 9 billion dollars (The fact that they agreed to pay anything is essentially an admission of guilt. The fact that they agreed to pay slightly less than the demand was a poor attempt at an insult, and it would cost them).

For Iraq, it was the last straw, they had fought and died for these people for 8 long years, and now their oil was being stolen, they were being insulted. They were fed up, they’d had enough, and on August 2nd, 1990 after months of fruitless negotiations, Saddam Hussein ordered Iraqi army units to cross into Kuwait to put a stop to the oil thefts once and for all.

President George Bush Sr, spoke to the American public about how “This invasion will not stand.” Keeping with his earlier espoused ideas about the New World Order of which he so fondly spoke; he amassed a coalition of “Democracies” (Note Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and a few other “Democracies” played major roles in the coalition). It should be noted that Syria and Iraq had the same political party, the Baath Party, why Syria decided to side with America probably has something to do with behind the scenes economic deals combined with well worded threats, the old Carrot and Stick diplomacy.


On July 16th, 1990, Tariq Aziz speaking on behalf of Saddam Hussein demanded Kuwait halt all oil thefts, give Iraq 10 billion dollars, and cut production of oil so the price would rise to at least $25 per barrel. Iraq wanted the 10 billion dollars because between 1981-1990, Kuwait had swindled Iraq out of an estimated $89 billion through secretly producing more than the agreements allowed. Also Iraq demanded a complete moratorium of the repayment of Iraqi debts incurred during the Iran-Iraq war.

On July 17th, 1990, Saddam accused Kuwait on “Conspiring with world Imperialism and World Zionism to cut off the livelihood of the Arab Nation of Iraq. And Iraq will not able to put up with such behavior for much longer.”
Saddam stated, “If the world fails to afford us protection, then we will have no choice but to resort to effective action to put things right and ensure the restitution of our rights.”

On July 18th, 1990, Kuwait resoundingly rejected all Iraqi demand, however they did offer 9 billion of the 10 billion Iraq was demanding. Offering slightly less was an insult, and both sides knew it. The stage was set.

The US ambassador to Baghdad, April Glaspie, said on July 25th. 1990.
“We are not going to do anything until we meet with the Kuwaitis. If, when we meet, we see that there is hope, nothing will happen. But if we are unable to find a solution, then it will be natural that Iraq will not accept death, even though wisdom is above anything else.”

On August 2nd, at about 1:00 a.m. Saddam Hussein ordered Iraqi military units, spearheaded by the Republican Guard, to invade Kuwait.


What is known is that Iraq didn’t do so well in Gulf War 1, but Saddam managed to endure and his regime endured. Numerous Republican Guard Divisions held their ground and died to the man, many divisions were completely wiped out. The performance of the regular army was less commendable; over 60,000 Iraqis were reported captured by the Coalition. Iraq had been under the false impression that their efforts to stop Kuwaiti treachery and oil theft had the approval and backing of the US and the West. “…then it will be natural that Iraq will not accept death…”



We know that Iraq under UN supervision dismantled all of their WMDS. We also know that no-fly zones were imposed in Southern and Northern Iraq to protect Shiite and Kurdish terrorists that the US hoped would topple Saddam. It is quite odd that US wanted the terrorists to win, but they left them to their fate when they pulled out of Iraq.

At the initial negotiations, General Norman Schwarzkopf who spoke for the USA declared that the no-fly zones applied only to fixed-wing aircraft, and not to helicopters, since Iraq stated they would need helicopters to fly rebuilding equipment to rebuild the heavily damaged Iraqi infrastructure. The helicopters would prove very useful in the coming weeks and months to crush the Kurd and Shiite uprisings.

Why would the USA allow Saddam to stay in power? Because the government often needs a distraction to keep people’s attention away from the real problems, the domestic problems. The economy goes sour, fire some cruise missiles at some nation the average citizen cannot locate on a map, or hit that nation, the one who most people only remember hearing about once in 9th grade geography class.

The truth is Saddam Hussein was a friend of the US and the West, and the USA repaid his friendship with a dagger in the back. The USA was friendly when Iraq was fighting Iran. But then when the war was over and Iraqis cried out for assistance to rebuild their shattered economy, they found the US interest in Iraq was over. Overnight, the USA was gone; Iraq was on its own.


The Second Gulf War is a war that to fully discuss the motives, I am forced to go into what the mainstream media would call “Conspiracy theory”. I will simply present the evidence, give you my thoughts, and let you make the ultimate decision.

Israel demanded war. They were still angry over Iraq firing a few dozen Conventional Scud Missiles at them in Gulf war 1 (Probably Iraq’s way of repaying the Israeli bombing of Iraqi nuclear reactors).

Israel was short on oil, the Mosul (Iraq) to Haifa (Israel) pipeline had been shut down in 1948, when the state of Israel declared independence in utter disregard for the rightful inhabitants of Palestine (The Palestinians of course). Israel wanted the pipeline reopened.

Information on the Mosul-Haifa pipeline can be found at the links below.

http://vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2003/09/65135_comment.php


http://www.nci.org/0new/iraq-osirak-lat53001.htm



George W Bush, a man who once said, “Only Christians get into heaven” but then changed almost overnight, visited the west wall in Jerusalem, and as president hosted Jewish guests in the white house to light menorahs and hang Israeli flags. This occurring in the same country where Christian symbols were declared banned in Public schools as they are “Religion” but where Jewish symbols and Islamic symbols were allowed as they “Have historical value”. I should think all religions have a degree of historical value.

It must be remembered the George W Bush is a Mason, a Skull and Bones man, and a member of Bohemian Grove (The Bohemian Club). He is part of the New World Order agenda, just as his father was. The economy began to get shaky, Israel needed oil, Bush wanted to further the New World Order agenda, he also wanted to get revenge on Iraq for trying to kill his father (Shortly after Gulf War 1, Iraqi agents tried to kill Bush Sr when he visited Kuwait).


Mr. Bush, why are American soldiers dying in Iraq?

Mr. Bush, where are the WMDs that you spoke of?

Mr. Bush, a report released a few days ago stated that Al-Qaeda had no links to Iraq outside of 3 meetings that took place in the Sudan in 1992 between an Iraqi agent and an Al-Qaeda man, and that nothing materialized from these meetings. Why did you state otherwise? Why did you try to make the American people associate Iraq with Al-Qaeda?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/16/911.commission/index.html

9/11 REPORT HIGHLIGHTS
· No "credible evidence" that Iraq cooperated with al Qaeda


Mr. Bush, why did you promise Israel that if the Iraqis don’t reopen the pipeline, that you’ll provide them American oil, regardless of what it does to the American economy?

Mr. Bush, why did you declare to the Iraqi governing council that you would not recognize the new Iraqi state unless they reopen the Mosul-Haifa pipeline?

Mr. Bush, why has Israel already been allowed to buy over 1,500 companies in Iraq?

Mr. Bush, who is running America? (Read below for your answer).



"Every time we do something, you tell me America will do this, will do that. I want to tell you something very clear; don’t worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."
- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to Former Prime Minister Shimon Peres - October 3, 2001
-
http://www.uwsa.com/pipermail/uwsa/2002q3/032945.html


http://www.mediamonitors.net/khodr49.html




Why are American soldiers dying in Iraq in a war that has nothing to do with American interests but rather everything to do with Israeli interests.

When will Americans wake up and realize what is being done to their country. Right now American men and women are fighting and dying in a war that is not their war, for a nation that is not theirs. If Israel wants oil, let them fight and die for it. Not one drop of American blood for all the oil in Iraq.
Stirner
17-06-2004, 07:59
This guy is your friend? :shock:
The Stuart
17-06-2004, 08:09
That's the longest post ive ever not read. :lol:
Nationalist Valhalla
17-06-2004, 08:12
That's the longest post ive ever not read. :lol:


now now, i'm sure there are plenty of longer posts that you have never read on frums and messageboards you never visit. there are whole fan fictions novels on some boards, those are much longer posts that i at least have never read.
Stirner
17-06-2004, 08:14
That's the longest post ive ever not read. :lol:
I stopped when the jew-hating kicked in, with Talmud-talk.

in typical cowardly Israeli fashion
Dontgonearthere
17-06-2004, 08:14
Wow...tell me, were you brainwashed by Iraqi spies or something?

"Oh, he only had people horribly tourtured to death, but if you got to know him he wasnt that bad a guy."
Nationalist Valhalla
17-06-2004, 08:18
That's the longest post ive ever not read. :lol:
I stopped when the jew-hating kicked in, with Talmud-talk.

in typical cowardly Israeli fashion

but that was the good part, the sexy part :lol: :twisted: :lol:
Nationalist Valhalla
17-06-2004, 08:19
Wow...tell me, were you brainwashed by Iraqi spies or something?

"Oh, he only had people horribly tourtured to death, but if you got to know him he wasnt that bad a guy."

well bush has done that, and i don't personally hold that against him.
Demonic Furbies
17-06-2004, 08:28
"look't it! it's uuuuge! look't it! it's like sputnick! it's got it's own weather system"
-mike myers in his scot voice
Insane Troll
17-06-2004, 08:59
Anyone who puts people into wood chippers feet first is OK with me, because I'm an idiot.
DHomme
17-06-2004, 09:03
I was with you until the whole Jew bashing thing
Khadrian
17-06-2004, 09:09
Finally someone who's been checking out the facts, but I think you've been leaving out a lot of opression of the kurds, actually the whole attempt to try to wipe them out totally. Ever since he came to power, Saddam has been attemping to clear out the kurdish populatin from the soil of Iraq. At one time he even "tested" chemical weapons on two kurdish villages, wiping them out entirely. Also, I think calling Saddam a "courageous politician" is a bit of an overstatement. One does not need a lot of political capability when one is an oppressive dictator. But I think you shold leave the warrior part as it is. If Saddam was anything he was a warrior. But you can't honestly say he was a good national leader if you look at the way he ran his country. He had his people suffer from poverage while he took generous funding for himself to build palaces for himself and his brothers. I know there are a lot of other incidents to point out his oppression financially but I think the one I just mentioned makes for the best example. And another thing, Stirner, I don't know if you are a jew yourself, but can you tell me why jews always write off al criticizm of their religion or Israel as "jew-hating" or "anti semitism"? Some people know the difference between a people and a nation's politics, when will they come after? I know the author of the article isn't here (I quote:"This is actually an article written by a friend of mine."), but I hope someone can respond...
Stirner
17-06-2004, 09:16
And another thing, Stirner, I don't know if you are a jew yourself, but can you tell me why jews always write off al criticizm of their religion or Israel as "jew-hating" or "anti semitism"? Some people know the difference between a people and a nation's politics, when will they come after?

But in typical cowardly Israeli fashion, the Israeli Air Force launched raids destroyed the reactor After all; Israel was and still is “the only democracy in the Middle East” (it’s actually closer to an Orthodox Jewish theocracy). Also, why should gentiles (non-Jews) enjoy the benefits of nuclear power, the Talmud (the book that all Orthodox Jews, and many non-orthodox Jews go by) states that gentiles are just animals and nothing more. I cite the Talmud for proof of the contempt that Jews hold gentiles in.

Did you read the article, Khadrian?
Decisive Action
17-06-2004, 09:21
Did you read the article, Khadrian?


I read the article. I thought it was interesting and raised some interesting questions. I would like to see some jews respond to the talmudic quotes, and the issues they raise. I went to the provided link and found some nasty things (How can these be in the holiest book of a people's religion)? Instead of shouting "Hate", "Anti-semitism", and other words to silence debate, I would like to know about these things and just what they mean.




Talmudic passages.

Sanhedrin 55b. A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years "and a day" old).

Sanhedrin 54b. A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.

Kethuboth 11b. "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing."

Yebamoth 59b. A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also eligible to marry a Jewish priest.

Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a whore in the world that Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with.

Hagigah 27a. States that no rabbi can ever go to hell.

Baba Mezia 59b. A rabbi debates God and defeats Him. God admits the rabbi won the debate.


Sanhedrin 106a. Says Jesus' mother was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters."

Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.

Gittin 57a. Says Jesus is being boiled in "hot excrement."
Insane Troll
17-06-2004, 09:23
The Christian bible has some horrible stuff in it too.
Decisive Action
17-06-2004, 09:25
The Christian bible has some horrible stuff in it too.

Do you mean the New-Testament which is the Christian bible, or the Old-Testament which cannot be considered Christian by any stretch of the imagination.
Decisive Action
17-06-2004, 09:30
The Christian bible has some horrible stuff in it too.



Talmud

Sanhedrin 57a. When a Jew murders a Gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a Gentile he may keep.

Yebamoth 98a. All Gentile children are animals.

Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b. Gentiles prefer sex with cows.

Baba Mezia 24a. If a Jew finds an object lost by a Gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b).

Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (Gentile) hits a Jew, the Gentile must be killed. Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God.

Sanhedrin 57a. A Jew need not pay a Gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.




Christian Bible


Matthew 5: 1-10
1Now when he saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2and he began to teach them saying:
3"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.
10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.



I don't really see how the two can be compared.
THE LOST PLANET
17-06-2004, 09:31
I doubt even your freind can spin Husseins early days as basicaly a hit man and his purge of the Baath party when he took power into anything redeeming. It's funny how he left all that out in his 'defense' of Saddam. Let's face it, this guy was a vicious thug, going back to his teen years.
Stirner
17-06-2004, 09:34
Hah! I see we've maintained a "separation" between Jews and "the state of Israel".

Nice to see racism is alive and well on the internet. Have fun with your discussion about the Talmud. :roll:
Decisive Action
17-06-2004, 09:35
I doubt even your freind can spin Husseins early days as basicaly a hit man and his purge of the Baath party when he took power into anything redeeming. It's funny how he left all that out in his 'defense' of Saddam. Let's face it, this guy was a vicious thug, going back to his teen years.

It seemed to me that he was mainly focusing on "Saddam the leader", Saddam's early life doesn't really matter that much in regards to international politics and events, only from the time he became leader of Iraq does he really matter internationally. I think also it looked like he was starting in the Iran-Iraq war and moving up from there (Well I think anybody could tell that)
Decisive Action
17-06-2004, 09:36
see racism


So you admit the jews are a separate race and not just people like everybody else who just happen to have a different religion?

Also you are trying to silence debate with a buzzword, "Racism". Do you fear debate?
THE LOST PLANET
17-06-2004, 09:40
I doubt even your freind can spin Husseins early days as basicaly a hit man and his purge of the Baath party when he took power into anything redeeming. It's funny how he left all that out in his 'defense' of Saddam. Let's face it, this guy was a vicious thug, going back to his teen years.

It seemed to me that he was mainly focusing on "Saddam the leader", Saddam's early life doesn't really matter that much in regards to international politics and events, only from the time he became leader of Iraq does he really matter internationally. I think also it looked like he was starting in the Iran-Iraq war and moving up from there (Well I think anybody could tell that)"Saddam the Leader" wiped out virtually anybody who could challange his position when he took power in Iraq. And my point is, why is the author starting with the Iraq-Iran war with his defense of Saddam? Perhaps because his earlier actions are indefensable?
Decisive Action
17-06-2004, 09:43
It seemed to me that he was mainly focusing on "Saddam the leader", Saddam's early life doesn't really matter that much in regards to international politics and events, only from the time he became leader of Iraq does he really matter internationally. I think also it looked like he was starting in the Iran-Iraq war and moving up from there (Well I think anybody could tell that)"Saddam the Leader" wiped out virtually anybody who could challange his position when he took power in Iraq. And my point is, why is the author starting with the Iraq-Iran war with his defense of Saddam? Perhaps because his earlier actions are indefensable?[/quote]

I would assume that since Saddam became the leader of Iraq about 14 months before the Iran-Iraq war, that the author decided to start when Saddam was the leader.

Also, how do you hold onto power in a country where there are thousands of separatists who want to break away parts of the country and form "Kurdistan" others want to unify with Iran. Extreme times call for extreme measures.
Decisive Action
17-06-2004, 09:48
The Christian bible has some horrible stuff in it too.


Jewish holy book


Purim festival, a reference to the Jewish celebration of their slaughter of 70,000 Gentiles in the Book of Esther
Stirner
17-06-2004, 09:54
So you admit the jews are a separate race and not just people like everybody else who just happen to have a different religion?
I admit that the Jews are a grouping of people that many people in the world want to see suffer. These people will go to great lengths to defame them.
Also you are trying to silence debate with a buzzword, "Racism". Do you fear debate?
No, I just don't like racists (or collectivists of any kind). And people who can rapidly quote things like:
Purim festival, a reference to the Jewish celebration of their slaughter of 70,000 Gentiles in the Book of Esther
get my racist radar beeping. If that silences debate, so be it.
Decisive Action
17-06-2004, 09:55
So you admit the jews are a separate race and not just people like everybody else who just happen to have a different religion?
I admit that the Jews are a grouping of people that many people in the world want to see suffer. These people will go to great lengths to defame them.
Also you are trying to silence debate with a buzzword, "Racism". Do you fear debate?
No, I just don't like racists (or collectivists of any kind). And people who can rapidly quote things like:
Purim festival, a reference to the Jewish celebration of their slaughter of 70,000 Gentiles in the Book of Esther
get my racist radar beeping. If that silences debate, so be it.


I think, no I know that Christianity teaches love and peace. I've shown the quotes to back it up. The Talmud teaches that jews should only love fellow jews, and that other people are basically animals and exist to be killed or enslaved.
Decisive Action
17-06-2004, 09:57
These people will go to great lengths to defame them





I'm not defaming anybody, far from it. I'm just curious as to why the jewish Talmud allows for pedophilia. It's one thing that pedophilia exists, we cannot stop it completely. But for a people to codify it into law in their holiest book, that is unthinkable.
Khadrian
17-06-2004, 09:59
Stirner, why can't you try to argue against him instead of writing it off as "jew-hating". I personally can't see why Israel still has all the support it has among people of the western world, watch one newsreport an dyou almost guaranteed will hear about some Israelis who strapped a palestinian boy to their armored car before a demonstration to avoid beig attacked by other palestinians throwig stones(this actually happened) or maybe you'll hear about the same Israelis killing another palestinian who tries to free his friend who's strapped to the armored car.(That also happened.) We also hear constant news about hundreds, and eventually thousands of palestinians having to move away from their homes because the israelis view them all as terrorists. Israel still looks upon capital punishment as a legitimate way of repaying for an attack from a palestinian terrorist. Here are some news: People who are as poor and opressed as the palestinians become terrorists!
THE LOST PLANET
17-06-2004, 10:01
"Saddam the Leader" wiped out virtually anybody who could challange his position when he took power in Iraq. And my point is, why is the author starting with the Iraq-Iran war with his defense of Saddam? Perhaps because his earlier actions are indefensable?

I would assume that since Saddam became the leader of Iraq about 14 months before the Iran-Iraq war, that the author decided to start when Saddam was the leader.

Also, how do you hold onto power in a country where there are thousands of separatists who want to break away parts of the country and form "Kurdistan" others want to unify with Iran. Extreme times call for extreme measures.Uh, he wiped out half of the Baath party right after he took power, we're not talking about rival factions here.
Decisive Action
17-06-2004, 10:02
Uh, he wiped out half of the Baath party right after he took power, we're not talking about rival factions here.

Those who are disloyal must be taken care of. Firm, but fair.
THE LOST PLANET
17-06-2004, 10:04
Uh, he wiped out half of the Baath party right after he took power, we're not talking about rival factions here.

Those who are disloyal must be taken care of. Firm, but fair. :roll: "Disloyal", another name for someone who might have a legitamate chance at taking his job.
Decisive Action
17-06-2004, 10:09
"Disloyal", another name for someone who might have a legitamate chance at taking his job.


When you're the leader and somebody tries to take your job, you often wind up dead, or missing (Dead but not found). It is crucial that enemies be taken care of before they become major threats.
Khadrian
17-06-2004, 10:12
When you're the leader and somebody tries to take your job, you often wind up dead, or missing (Dead but not found). It is crucial that enemies be taken care of before they become major threats.[/quote] Hey, that's Stalins policy, and he must have done something right, as he stayed in power for some 40 or 50 years.
Decisive Action
17-06-2004, 10:14
When a leader is deposed, it isn't "Okay, you're deposed, go home and rest, have fun." It's more, "You're deposed, up against the wall, or put your head in this noose." Deposed leaders don't live very long, so if Saddam wanted to live (as most normal people do), he had to be firm. But remember, he was "Firm, but fair".
Khadrian
17-06-2004, 10:18
I personally think this debate is a bit off, because I don't think dictators should be given the right to stay in power at all...
Decisive Action
17-06-2004, 10:19
I personally think this debate is a bit off, because I don't think dictators should be given the right to stay in power at all...

In certain countries you need a strong leader. If it wasn't for the baath party and Saddam Hussein, Iraq would have fallen to the Shiite Radicals (Almost 70% of Iraq is shiite) and the Iranian aggressors. Countries with such troubles need a strong leader to dominate.
Khadrian
17-06-2004, 10:23
At least the shiite radicals would represent a larger percentage of the population.
Decisive Action
17-06-2004, 10:24
http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/12-14-00.html


Consequently, the disclosure by U.S. officials that Iran also had used chemical weapons at Halabjeh received little circulation in the media. This, despite the fact that the case against Iran, in fact, was very strong. For example, in reviewing classified information, U.S. analysts determined that the Kurds had been killed by cyanide, and that only the Iranians possessed cyanide gas at the time.
Khadrian
17-06-2004, 10:28
Why should the Iranians attack their own allies? I don't find it surprising that these were american analysts, they were pretty pro-Iraq at that time.
Decisive Action
17-06-2004, 10:33
Why should the Iranians attack their own allies? I don't find it surprising that these were american analysts, they were pretty pro-Iraq at that time.

Remember that Ayatollah Khomeini was a lunatic (thankfully he is dead now). He organized the youth of Iran into the Basij and Pasdaran and sent them ahead of the important soldiers to clear minefields (By stepping on the mines). They actually got the youth brainwashed to the point where they wanted to run through the minefields. 9 out of 10 Iranian Child soldiers died in the war.





http://www.child-soldiers.org/cs/childsoldiers.nsf/3f922f75125fc21980256b20003951fc/13ca87e542c5754680256b1e003d5a53?OpenDocument

Government-allied groups were known to recruit children during the Iran-Iraq war. The Hezbollahi organization for example made announcements in various newspapers inviting registration with the sole entry requirement being a ''belief in God'' and sympathy for the Hezbollahi. Age was ''unimportant'': according to the advertisement, students could range from 14 to 90 years of age.[14] The leadership of Iran also urged youths to take an active part in fighting.[15] In a series of rulings issued in the autumn of 1982, Ayatollah Khomeini declared that parental permission was unnecessary for those going to the front, that volunteering for military duty was a religious obligation, and that serving in the armed forces took priority over all other forms of work or study. Various sources reported that children were indoctrinated into participating in combat.[16] They were given "keys to paradise" and promised that they would go directly to heaven if they died as martyrs against the Iraqi enemy.[17]

No estimates are available on the number of children who participated in the Iran-Iraq war, but Hojjatoleslam Hashemi Rafsanjani, later president, stated in 1982 that Iran's armed forces had been supplemented by 400,000 volunteers. An exiled source claims that since military service was compulsory from the age of 18, most of these "volunteers" were likely to be younger.[18] Gulf war statistics about prisoners, casualties and their ages are unreliable, but according to the International Committee of the Red Cross at least 10 per cent of Iranian prisoners were under 18.[19] Iranian officers captured by the Iraqis claimed that nine out of ten Iranian child soldiers were killed.

According to one journalist, most recruits had between one and three months of military training before being sent to the front, but some had no training at all.[20] Boys as young as nine were reportedly used in human wave attacks and to serve as mine sweepers in the war with Iraq.[21] Many child soldiers were captured by the Iraqis and transferred to a special Prisoner of War camp for children.[22] Some 300, most believed to be 15 or younger were held by Iraq in a special, separated compound at Al-Ramadi, about 60 miles west of Baghdad, where they were exploited by the Iraqi authorities for propaganda purposes.[23]
Martyrs' families enjoyed some social prestige and reportedly received monetary compensation per child, plus a martyr's card entitling the family to food and other privileges. Child soldiers were nearly all from poor villages or slum families.[24] All families of martyrs and those handicapped by the war received a stipend for their loss from the Bunyad-e Shaheed (Martyrs’ Foundation).[25]
Greenmanbry
17-06-2004, 10:35
I doubt even your freind can spin Husseins early days as basicaly a hit man and his purge of the Baath party when he took power into anything redeeming. It's funny how he left all that out in his 'defense' of Saddam. Let's face it, this guy was a vicious thug, going back to his teen years.

It seemed to me that he was mainly focusing on "Saddam the leader", Saddam's early life doesn't really matter that much in regards to international politics and events, only from the time he became leader of Iraq does he really matter internationally. I think also it looked like he was starting in the Iran-Iraq war and moving up from there (Well I think anybody could tell that)"Saddam the Leader" wiped out virtually anybody who could challange his position when he took power in Iraq. And my point is, why is the author starting with the Iraq-Iran war with his defense of Saddam? Perhaps because his earlier actions are indefensable?

Sadly, every word written there is true (and I'm talking about the politics)

Saddam was the "savior" of the Arab World, American interests in the Arab World, and in fact, of Israel itself.

If Iraq was overrun, Kuwait, Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc,etc,etc would have toppled like dominos. If that happened, the next target for Iran would have been Israel itself. After all, that was the ultimate goal of Komeini, wasn't it? :roll:

Also, he was backstabbed, like stated, by the West. They gave him WMD, Rumsfeld gave him WMD.. The French gave him nuclear reactors and Super Etendards, and the Arab World gave him every ounce of oil, and all the money he needed.

So what remains is, Saddam's tyranny was not in using chemical weapons on Hallabjah, nor in starting the wars he was involved in, but in torturing his people

Well, look at other American-backed regimes in the region.. Libya, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and all the other regimes... THEY ARE ALL DICTATORSHIPS.. and you haven't heard half of the stories of tortured peoples in those countries.. they are far worse than stories of Saddam's torture..

Why Iraq in particular then??

It had a charismatic leader, a threat to Israel, and of course, oil..

Very very objective article in my opinion.. Should receive huge criticism by several political / religious factions.
Khadrian
17-06-2004, 10:37
Yes, Decisive Action, you have established the fact that Iran had child soldiers, but where does that fit into our debate about the justification of Saddam's reign?
Decisive Action
17-06-2004, 10:39
Yes, you have established the fact that Iran had child soldiers, but where does that fit into our debate about the justification of Saddam's reign?

I'm just saying Iran was so insane as to throw away their youth, that they'd do almost anything (such as use WMDS). So Saddam had to stop them.
Khadrian
17-06-2004, 10:42
So, what you are saying is that Iran was the black sheep and that Iraq and Saddam was just a darker shade of grey? If so, I agree.
Decisive Action
17-06-2004, 10:47
So, what you are saying is that Iran was the black sheep and that Iraq and Saddam was just a darker shade of grey, if so, I agree.

I think Saddam was a warrior fighting for his cause. Can any other nation claim to be free of "atrocities". The Crusaders from Western Europe, the American settlers who killed the indians, any african war you look at has mass atrocities. But most atrocities have a purpose (American ones did, cleanse the land of natives to make for the settlers). Saddam was trying to suppress Kurdish and Shiite attempts to destroy Iraq.

The only atroicties that I can think of that have no real point are the mass cannibalism, mass rape, and such that occur in nations like the DRC (Zaire), and other such Africa conflicts. If you want to kill somebody, do it, but don't eat them. Maybe psychological warfare, but still not very healthy.
Khadrian
17-06-2004, 10:54
You're talking to the wrong person if you are trying justify Saddam by comparing him with the peole responsible for the horrible slaughter of native americans by settlers or the attack on the middle east by the religious lunatics calling themselves crusaders. I do not in any way view any of them as heroes.
Decisive Action
17-06-2004, 10:56
You're talking to the wrong person if you are trying justify Saddam by comparing him with the peole responsible for the horrible slaughter of native americans by settlers or the attack on the middle east by the religious lunatics calling themselves crusaders. I do not in any way view any of them as heroes.


Saddams actions must be examined with the situation he was in taken into account. He didn't go looking to kill people, they attempted to rebel and destroy Iraq. They forced his hand, they left him no choice.
Khadrian
17-06-2004, 11:05
Saddams actions must be examined with the situation he was in taken into account. He didn't go looking to kill people, they attempted to rebel and destroy Iraq. They forced his hand, they left him no choice. You are still not taking into account the fact that Saddam was a dictator who had come to power by killing his opposition. He should not have had the ability to make that choice in the first place. Look at Russia (former Soviet Union) they made a peaceful conversion from dictatorship to democracy. This debate is futile if we accept dictatorship as a way to rule a country.
Gigatron
17-06-2004, 11:55
from dictatorship to democracy

If you want to call what Russia has now a democracy.. thats your decision. I politely disagree with you and call it a semi-democratic dictatorship.
CanuckHeaven
17-06-2004, 14:25
That's the longest post ive ever not read. :lol:
I stopped when the jew-hating kicked in, with Talmud-talk.

in typical cowardly Israeli fashion
I guess that would be in line with your total disregard of Arabs? Perhaps you forgot that comment you made and you didn’t say Iraqi Arabs you said “male Arabs”. You can't expect hate to be one sided or is that your take on the world? There is no understanding and will be none as long as hate rules the heart and mind.

That story made some very valid points, but you will have none of it? Ignorance breeds ignorance and results in hate and death. No wonder the world is so messed up.
CanuckHeaven
17-06-2004, 14:38
Hah! I see we've maintained a "separation" between Jews and "the state of Israel".

Nice to see racism is alive and well on the internet. Have fun with your discussion about the Talmud. :roll:
Ahhhh yes and you have participated in it before this thread?
CanuckHeaven
17-06-2004, 14:41
I doubt even your freind can spin Husseins early days as basicaly a hit man and his purge of the Baath party when he took power into anything redeeming. It's funny how he left all that out in his 'defense' of Saddam. Let's face it, this guy was a vicious thug, going back to his teen years.

It seemed to me that he was mainly focusing on "Saddam the leader", Saddam's early life doesn't really matter that much in regards to international politics and events, only from the time he became leader of Iraq does he really matter internationally. I think also it looked like he was starting in the Iran-Iraq war and moving up from there (Well I think anybody could tell that)"Saddam the Leader" wiped out virtually anybody who could challange his position when he took power in Iraq. And my point is, why is the author starting with the Iraq-Iran war with his defense of Saddam? Perhaps because his earlier actions are indefensable?
What were his earlier actions that were indefensible?
Decisive Action
17-06-2004, 21:21
What were his earlier actions that were indefensible?


When he was 12 or 13, he shot and killed a school teacher who insulted him or may even have hit him, in the Arab countries they have the old American attitude of "An insult means blood" (The old duelling attitude).

In 1959 he tried to assassinate Abdul-Karim Qassim the man who was the dictator of Iraq, the assassination attempt failed and saddam was wounded, several of his friends were wounded because they stood on both sides of the road when they fired at Qassim's car, they pretty much hit each other.


Also as leader he killed his own son-in-laws (They sold information to the USA and tried to defect).


Basically Saddam has never killed anybody who wasn't asking for trouble, he's not some wanton madman serial killer who is out to kill children and bathe in blood. The New World Order media in the West and USA has painted Saddam Hussein much as they painted Serbian heroes Slobadon Milosevic, Ratko Mladic, and Zeljko Raznatovic, as some foaming at the mouth, beastly, werewolf.
Salishe
17-06-2004, 21:25
What were his earlier actions that were indefensible?


When he was 12 or 13, he shot and killed a school teacher who insulted him or may even have hit him, in the Arab countries they have the old American attitude of "An insult means blood" (The old duelling attitude).

In 1959 he tried to assassinate Abdul-Karim Qassim the man who was the dictator of Iraq, the assassination attempt failed and saddam was wounded, several of his friends were wounded because they stood on both sides of the road when they fired at Qassim's car, they pretty much hit each other.


Also as leader he killed his own son-in-laws (They sold information to the USA and tried to defect).


Basically Saddam has never killed anybody who wasn't asking for trouble, he's not some wanton madman serial killer who is out to kill children and bathe in blood. The New World Order media in the West and USA has painted Saddam Hussein much as they painted Serbian heroes Slobadon Milosevic, Ratko Mladic, and Zeljko Raznatovic, as some foaming at the mouth, beastly, werewolf.

You lost all credibility with me when you called Milosevic a hero
Insane Troll
17-06-2004, 21:27
I never realized disagreeing with someone was "asking for trouble".
BoogieDown Productions
17-06-2004, 22:01
Did you read the article, Khadrian?


I read the article. I thought it was interesting and raised some interesting questions. I would like to see some jews respond to the talmudic quotes, and the issues they raise. I went to the provided link and found some nasty things (How can these be in the holiest book of a people's religion)? Instead of shouting "Hate", "Anti-semitism", and other words to silence debate, I would like to know about these things and just what they mean.




Talmudic passages.

Sanhedrin 55b. A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years "and a day" old).

Sanhedrin 54b. A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.

Kethuboth 11b. "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing."

Yebamoth 59b. A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also eligible to marry a Jewish priest.

Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a whore in the world that Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with.

Hagigah 27a. States that no rabbi can ever go to hell.

Baba Mezia 59b. A rabbi debates God and defeats Him. God admits the rabbi won the debate.


Sanhedrin 106a. Says Jesus' mother was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters."

Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.

Gittin 57a. Says Jesus is being boiled in "hot excrement."

Religeon is retarded. There I said it. Commence your lynching now.

But seriously, what real collective good has any of this shite ever done the world? Religeon is a tool for enforcing ignorance, breeding mistrust, and justifing violence. I dont care if it make you feel warm and gushy inside it is screwign the world up, so keep it to yourself.
Decisive Action
17-06-2004, 22:35
Milosevic was fighting to maintain Kosovo as a part of Serbia (It is and should remain part of Serbia). Kosovo is 90% albanian and the Albanians keep trying to get it annexed into Albania, so the Serbs fought back.

What will you do when Texas becomes 90% mexican (In about 10-15 years it will) and they try to get annexed into Mexico, will you fight back and do WHATEVER IT TAKES?




Interview with Serbian war hero Zeljko Raznatovic.

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a38820a4b6fc6.htm

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.


Interview with ARKAN

News/Current Events News Keywords: ARKAN
Published: 03/30/99 Author: Msnbc Chat
Posted on 01/16/2000 10:13:31 PST by alisasny




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:
From:
Host:
Date: Zeljko "Arkan" Raznatovic 3-30-99
Chris Donohue (=MSNBC=)
MSNBC
Tue Mar 30 14:11:26

MSNBC Chat Auditorium: http://chat.msnbc.com

Chris_MSNBC says:
NOW- Zeljko "Arkan" Raznatovic - Chat with Zeljko
"Arkan" Raznatovic, a notirious Serb paramilitary commander
and accused war criminal. Read a piece by MSNBC's Preston Mendenhall
on Arkan: http://http://www.msnbc.com/news/254147.asp

Host Arkan says:
Hi, it's good to be here. We are under the bombing umbrella, but
we're alive. I'm ready to take your questions now!

Host Chris_MSNBC2 says:
Question from ATHENA: Arkan, are you truly going to pit all your
forceagainst NATO troops should they be sent into Kosovo in an
all-out battle?

Host Arkan says:
I don't have any other country, only this country. So if Russia, NATO
or anyone attacks, I will defend my country

Host Arkan says:
That's what I said, the minute NATO comes on the ground, I will
defend my country

Host Chris_MSNBC2 says:
Question from Writer: What exactly would your troops do to make a
NATO invasion of Kosovo "pure hell" as you said.

Host Arkan says:
We'll fight for our rights, to defend our land, our children, and our
wives

Host Arkan says:
We will defend our land of Kosovo, pure Serbian land. For centuries a
Serbian land. So you will have a hell of a time if you attack us,
that I can promise

Host Chris_MSNBC says:
Question from Spook: What is your response to someone who would call
you a hate Monger?

Host Arkan says:
I really don't give a damn

Host Chris_MSNBC says:
Question from JonP: Where have the male kosovar refugees disappeared
to?

Host Arkan says:
I think it's pure propaganda, I don't believe in that. In this kind
of time, 1999, and you're telling me we're eating up the people in
Kosovo, they're disappearing. I really don't believe in that

Host Arkan says:
I know how the propaganda is working up, I am watching all the
stations from the US and I can tell you, they're telling me of ethnic
cleansing, showing people going away in a car nicely, then showing
people leaving their homes.

Host Chris_MSNBC says:
Question from Wayne Fielder: What is the objective of your exercise
in Kosovo? We are told it is practically Genocide.

Host Arkan says:
My mother is from Priskna, if they want to leave, I would take them
to my home. We don't have nothing against Albanians, we've lived
together more than 50 years

Host Arkan says:
It's the crazy politics of newcomers to Albania, they want to take
apart Kosovo and make a new state

Host Arkan says:
This policy I don't accept, we don't hate anybody, Albanians or other
nations, why should we

Host Chris_MSNBC says:
Question from Rev. Walker: What's the condition of Christian churches
in Kosovo now? Where do people go to worship these days?

Host Arkan says:
You know the situation. A lot of people are running away from Kosovo
because of the bombing. 80% of bombing is on Kosovo

Host Arkan says:
You forgot that we about 800,000 emigrants from Croatia and Bosnia
and no one is talking about those immigrants running away to save
their lives

Host Chris_MSNBC says:
Question from cincyjohn: why do the Serbs stake claim to kosovo when
only 10% of the population is Serbian?

Host Arkan says:
I will explain - the regime in Albania was a Communist regime, and
for 50 years they told us to take those immigrants from Yugoslavia.
We give them credits,

Host Arkan says:
money to build houses, give them a piece of land, it was like that
for 50 years. Serbs have 1 or 2 children, Albanians have 15

Host Arkan says:
The Albanian population goes up. It doesn't mean that we have to give
up our territory and that

Host Arkan says:
Albanian should take the part of Serbia. You seem to forget in the US
in New Mexico, TX, near the Mexican border, what do you think if you
have more Mexican population than American in those states and they
decide to take TX to Mexico, what would you do?

Host Arkan says:
They have rights, but we will not tolerate them taking the land and
making another state. All our culture is in Kosovo, so we can't give
that up

Host Arkan says:
It's part of our souls

Host Chris_MSNBC says:
Question from jim: why can't a peace agreement be reached. We don't
care about pride here it's more in regards to humantiy and living a
peaceful life.

Host Arkan says:
I am for peace because I know what war is. I'd like everything
settled in a peaceful way. We didn't come to bomb other countries, we
have no capacity to bomb them, to tell them we're going to do this by
force.

Host Arkan says:
We are reasonable people, we can negotiate. It's better to negotiate
than have a war for one day

Host Arkan says:
But when big NATO allies want to destroy little country Serbia…a
ranch in TX probably bigger than Yugoslavia.

Host Arkan says:
I am a worker in that ranch, I work to defend that ranch. You’re
attacking an innocent people, the workers, because they don't want to
follow NATO policy. We'd like to have a democracy like you have in
the west, but we want to find our own Serbian democracy.

Host Arkan says:
We don't want to shoot down your planes, they're beautiful and strong
and we don't want to have any fight with them

Host Chris_MSNBC says:
Question from Richard: Arkan, Here in the mountains of Utah we are
not informed. Please tell me of the KLA and the threats they pose to
you and your countrymen

Host Arkan says:
We have an ultimatum, if we don't give up Kosovo they will bomb us.
We want to give Kosovars the same rights as Serbs. Always we have
some rebels in Kosovo, so of course they found a terrorist group
which with the help of CIA and US became the KLA. It's not an army
it's a terroist orgnaiztion.

Host Arkan says:
With the politics of the US, they call them a liberation
organization, but if it's against the interests of the US they call
it a terrorist organization

Host Arkan says:
We are not going to listen to ultimatums from a superpower like the
US or NATO. We want to live our lives peacefully, we want to stick
with our little everyday problems. Please don't try by force to take
part of Serbia and put part of it in Albania

Host Arkan says:
One of biggest group in US is Albanians and is very strong

Host Arkan says:
We don't have enough money to pay that lobby in the US, that's why
Albanian lobby in US is big and is dictating politics which is very
wrong,

Host Arkan says:
the politics which honest, normal people in Yugoslavia can't
tolerate. We are going to defend ourselves with arms we have and when
we don't have enough arms, we will defend with stones, with forks, we
will die as warriors

Host Chris_MSNBC says:
Question from The_Templar: What are your thoughts on the Primakov
mission?

Host Arkan says:
I think there is no mission. This is not a Russian country. I am
solidly against Russia because I don't like Communists

Host Arkan says:
When you don't have no one to help you, then you will make a deal
with the devil

Host Arkan says:
I personally will not make a deal with any devil, even Russian devil

Host Arkan says:
I am a man who is reasonable and think he only comes to sell us, to
get money from Western countries

Host Arkan says:
I personally don't believe in him and I think he's not going to help
us because the history of Yugoslavia, Russians didn't help us one
minute, never, not even during WW2

Host Chris_MSNBC says:
Question from John: How do you explain President Milosevic's constant
wavering,
the way he agrees to talk peace while making war?

Host Arkan says:
Well, I don't know what he's thinking, which move he's going to make.

Host Arkan says:
You have to understand one thing, he had a big, big opposition in
this country. I am the president of the political party Serbian unity.

Host Arkan says:
Now, you make Milosevic very popular with the bombings, you make him
very strong.

Host Arkan says:
He's the most popular man in Yugoslavia. At the moment we are Serbian
partiots, not political parties, not who's right, who's for this and
that, we are only defending our country.

Host Arkan says:
At the moment Milosevic is a very popular president and all political
parties are supporting him because of what he did in a political way

Host Chris_MSNBC says:
Question from KENNY: IS YOUR MILITARY TAKEN ALOT OF DAMAGE AND HOW
MANY TROOPS HAVE YOU LOST SINCE THE AIR STIKES.

Host Arkan says:
I think the casualities are very little because the Army was prepared
for the attacks and they know you are going to hit barracks, so no
one is stupid to sleep in a house when you know bomb is coming

Host Arkan says:
NATO did a roper job because they didn't hit many civilians, and I
think still a chance not to be war criminals by hitting some school
or by hitting some hosptial where innocent people are

Host Arkan says:
There is still a chance to stop it and not be a war criminal

Host Chris_MSNBC says:
Question from Larry Katerzynske: Do you think it is possible for
Albanians to ever peacefully occupy Yugoslavian lands in the future?

Host Arkan says:
They could do it in long term, they did it for 50 years.

Host Arkan says:
They produce 9-15 children, every Albanian woman. So for another 20
years probably the Serbs would be 1-2%. The Albanians follow the
wrong politics of rebellion so now we have this war near the Albanian
border in a part where we have those terrorists and of course we have
NATO bombings at the same time

Host Chris_MSNBC says:
Question from patpoker: Arkan, do you have comfirmed information as
to how many NATO aircraft have been downed , and if so how many?

Host Arkan says:
Till yesterday, 12 o'clock, we for sure, that's what the Army sources
say, we shot down 7 NATO planes, 2 of the invisible nighthawk. One
was shot and the Americans got the plane, the other we shot in
Yugoslavia and I think you saw that on tv right away

Host Arkan says:
I hope you are going to see on tv the rest of the planes so NATO
doesn't have to lie, they are saying we shot only one plane.

Host Arkan says:
I hope they will show all those planes that are shot down

Host Chris_MSNBC says:
Question from Tom Nuculovic: How is your relationship with President
Milosevic?

Host Arkan says:
I don't have a relationship with President Milosevic .

Host Arkan says:
I saw an article in newspapers that I was under the command of
Milosevic in the time of war but I was under the command of Yugoslav
army in 1991 and 1994.

Host Arkan says:
I think he's the President of Serbia, so he's my president as you
have Clinton and he's your president

Host Arkan says:
I don't have a military rank in the army, I was only volunteer during
the war and will volunteer if NATO comes in with ground troops. Then
I will mobilize my volunteer guard and defend my country and people.

Host Arkan says:
So my personal relationship, I saw him twice in my life and didn't
even speak with the man one second

Host Chris_MSNBC says:
Question from Bonafide Bonzai: Why are you opposed to an independent
Kosovo?

Host Arkan says:
Because they are not asking for independence, we'd give them cultural
independence

Host Arkan says:
They want to take a part of Yugoslavia and make a big Albanian state

Host Arkan says:
Of course it's not normal thinking, we're not going to give up a part
of our land. It's not normal if you have a population like that, as
in the state you have the most population of Mexicans, why don't you
give independence to TX and give TX to Mexico.

Host Arkan says:
It's the same question, you would say this guy's crazy. People from
TX will never accept that.

Host Chris_MSNBC says:
Question from Richard: Few reliable reports from the Belgrade, is the
NATO bombing killing civillians?

Host Arkan says:
Yes, we have civilian casualties. They are bombing factories, but in
the factories you have workers. Military factories you have civilian
workers.

Host Arkan says:
Airports, you have casualties there, civilians. They are bombing a
building near a military factory and if they hit or miss that they
hit a building nearby with civilians. You can bomb us for 30 years
but we're not going to give up

Host Arkan says:
We are not people that give up that easy, you can bomb 50 years and
we won't give up

Host Arkan says:
We of course have civilian causalities, not because you want to make
thme, but because they are civilians living in this country

Host Arkan says:
We are not a military country

Host Chris_MSNBC says:
Question from vet005: American's don't understand the history of the
US, let alone the history of Europe...even though I support NATO
objectivies, do you believe the American people really understand the
significance of that area to the Serb people?

Host Arkan says:
First of all, Americans don't know the history, I know very well the
history of America. This history of America for me starts for me in
TX where the free people which had democracy fight, die for TX as for
US.

Host Arkan says:
When the Santa Maria attacked TX with his force. We are in the same
position

Host Arkan says:
We have NATO attacking Kosovo, we have to defend our free minds, our
free country, our indepence

Host Arkan says:
We have to fight to defend something we believe in, the same way they
fought to defend TX and the fortress of the Alamo.

Host Chris_MSNBC says:
Question from Spook: What do you need to see as far as results are
concerned to feel you have achieved your goals in this conflict?

Host Arkan says:
First we want bombing to stop, not because we can't make it under the
bombs, we can live under the bombs

Host Arkan says:
You see the people in the streets in Belgrade making concerts. All
kind of people are on the streets, we are celebrating your bombings

Host Arkan says:
You don't understand these people, we are not crazy, we are going to
fight to defend our country

Host Arkan says:
We were allies in WWI with US, in the second WW. And now you allies
attack us

Host Arkan says:
We can make it like that, but in a clear head, in a right mind, you
have to stop bombing

Host Arkan says:
You are bombing innocent people, you are bombing because you are
superpower, NATO was not founded to attack people

Host Arkan says:
It was founded to defend themselves from the Russian block

Host Arkan says:
And what we found out today, NATO is not doing their job. Russian
block is finished, they have nothing to do. The want to be policeman
of the world

Host Arkan says:
The policeman of the world cannot be NATO. You are the judge and the
justice, not only police, you can't be only policeman

Host Arkan says:
We want bombing to stop, we want to negotiate, we want to live where
we are, we want peace,

Host Arkan says:
We are fighting for peace and love, we are not fighting for war

Host Arkan says:
We want Peace!

Host Chris_MSNBC says:
closing...

Host Arkan says:
I want to wish you all the best to all the people who are reading
what I was telling

Host Arkan says:
I want all the nations to know the people of Yugoslavia are suffering
a tragedy today

Host Arkan says:
We don't know why we are bombed because we don't want to think as
NATO is thinking

Host Arkan says:
We don't hate Albanians, we want to live as my grandparents lived as
good neighbors, I'm good neighbor with their grandsons

Host Arkan says:
I know they are good people and we are good people, we cannot leave
kosovo to terrorists

Host Arkan says:
we can't leave where our history was born, we can't leave our
churches to some terrorist groups which are backed by NATO countries
now which want to make a battlefield out of Serbia.

Host Arkan says:
We want peace. I have 4 sons, 5 daughters nad have a 10 month old
granddaughter and I want them to live in a happy and well country in
peace and not in a country destroyed by NATO bombs.

Host Arkan says:
I want world to get up and make a big demonstration, asking for
peace. Thank you very much!
Laskin Yahoos
18-06-2004, 05:05
It should also be noted that France sold Iraq a nuclear reactor and that during the Iran-Iraq war, Iraq was going to use the nuclear reactor to build a power plant to vastly improve the quality of life of her people.
Wow! Now why would Iraq, a country with the second larget oil reserves, need nuclear power when they could just burn oil? Oh, wait, those Iraqi oil reserves are all a sham, put in place by the Jewish cabal to trick all of us into thinking that Bush wanted to invade Iraq for the 'oil' when what really happed was that the inferior and retarded Jews used Bush as a pawn and tricked us genetically and intellectually superior non-Jews! :roll: :lol:
Omni Conglomerates
18-06-2004, 05:41
Ok, I have read the whole post, and I can say that it is the most well written bull I have ever seen. Trust me, I have seen, and written, some good bull in my day, and that takes the cake. I would debate some of the points in the article, but I would have to take quite a few drugs to be out of it enough to take that seriously.