NationStates Jolt Archive

I was watching, two days ago, God TV (a digital channel in the UK which I expect all of you can get as they broadcast to virtually every nation in the world).

God TV, for those who don't know about it, is Protestant. It's programmes are all Protestant (particularly Methodist) and it's preachers are Protestant (such as Pat Robertson for those in the US and Joyce Meyer).

Whilst I'm a Catholic, it's the only Christian channel and so I watch quite a bit of it. However, I was extremely disturbed to see some of the, in effect, weirdness which it broadcasted. Here are the two programmes (both with the same type of content) which made me very uneasy:

1) A South African programme. The Priest (or whatever they call the Preacher) took a handbag from the audience, screamed 'JESUS' at the top of his voice and threw the bag into the audience (which probably numbered about 10,000). Once the bag hit a front row audience member, the crowd began to scream and everybody fell down. I was amazed. People then just lay on the floor as if they had fainted and the whole building was in hysterics with grown men even crying.

2) Another programme I was watching yesterday showed a Preacher in India. He had people on his stagem was shouting Jesus and then touching this people and they would faint. He was also 'healing' people right there and then of blindness and paralysis by just shouting Jesus.

I also know that this sort of thing is done in America in Protestant communities.

This seems very absurd and perhaps even heretical to me. I can not help but view these as staged events with the normal audience getting caught up in the 'moment'. I view the preachers as, basically, conmen.

Is this quite normal for Protestant ongregations?

Sure is, from Benny Hynn to Kenith steal you wallet Copeland.

Sure is, from Benny Hynn to Kenith steal you wallet Copeland.

Who are these people?

Do they do these sort of 'fainting' spectacles?

Welp...I never heard of the channel you speak of...We do get similar things in the States...

Person prowling on the stage, "healing" people, "talking" to the people watching TV, going "DO YOU NEED SALVATION THEN SEND ME 20.99 A MONTH TO PAY FOR MY DIVORCE ALIMONY AND CHILD SUPPORT...ER I MEAN THE CHURCH."


And people actually pay in because they want to so badly save themselves or believe in something. *Shrugs* I do not judge.

Welp...I never heard of the channel you speak of...We do get similar things in the States...

Here's their website (www.god.tv). Take a look.

Sure is, from Benny Hynn to Kenith steal you wallet Copeland.

Who are these people?

Do they do these sort of 'fainting' spectacles?Yes, they are on commercial tv around 3am as part of some bizzare federal law. But I'm thankful I never bothered getting the Christian channel with my cable package. I don't need that kind of stress.

Yes, they are on commercial tv around 3am as part of some bizzare federal law. But I'm thankful I never bothered getting the Christian channel with my cable package. I don't need that kind of stress.

And do they make people faint by screaming Jesus like some crazed madman?

Hmm..I don't get it and I have Satellite


Strange..Or perhaps I do and I just don't tend to go very far...Or DirectTV just doesn't offer it at all. Not that I care to watch it. (No offence and such but I am non-religious due to bad life expirences with such things.)

Hmm..I don't get it and I have Satellite

Well, I've posted their website if you haven't already gone to it. It's very Protestant.

Hmm..I don't get it and I have Satellite

Well, I've posted their website if you haven't already gone to it. It's very Protestant.Oh. I went, that's why I stated the above. I went to see where they were channel wise. They mentioned satellite and such.

Oh. I went, that's why I stated the above. I went to see where they were channel wise. They mentioned satellite and such.

Oh well, lucky you. You don't get to see the mad Protestants....

I've also suspected them of being anti-Catholic as a lot of their programs are anti-Catholic and contain anti-Catholic messages (such as the proclamation on one programme that the Cathedrals [Catholics] are dead or dying and their Church is alive and growing).

Also, I've emailed them about 6 times asking for them to give a reason as to why a supposedly Christian channel does not broadcast Orthodox or even Catholic programmes. I've received no reply.

T's one those sticky and funny things really. The impression I get from Catholics is that they don't feel the need to broadcast their beliefs and miracles and such and so they don't.

I am not sure why the others do it other than to say it is because it is what works for them and you just sorta let it go at that even if it seems horrible especially with all the messages they send [anti-other religions messages].


If I had a bit more sleep I'd be a touch more coherent. ^_^;

Though oddly I am not tired. Oh hum.

T's one those sticky and funny things really. The impression I get from Catholics is that they don't feel the need to broadcast their beliefs and miracles and such and so they don't.

Well, I know for a fact that there is this Catholic prgramme in Alabama. If only I had the name and website of the programme I could give it to God TV.

Also, if they say nothing of the Pope's death (when His Holiness does die) then I will know for sure that they are anti-Catholic and not a 'Christian' channel.

Yes, they are on commercial tv around 3am as part of some bizzare federal law. But I'm thankful I never bothered getting the Christian channel with my cable package. I don't need that kind of stress.

And do they make people faint by screaming Jesus like some crazed madman?Yup, I watched this special the other day where they played the tongues spoken by popular evanglists backwards. It was pretty freaky, like when this one guy put his hand on this old woman and shouted something, it played back as receive the mark of the beast

Yup, I watched this special the other day where they played the tongues spoken by popular evanglists backwards. It was pretty freaky, like when this one guy put his hand on this old woman and shouted something, it played back as receive the mark of the beast

And people call the Catholic Church bad names and that we don't follow the Bible....

Yup, I watched this special the other day where they played the tongues spoken by popular evanglists backwards. It was pretty freaky, like when this one guy put his hand on this old woman and shouted something, it played back as receive the mark of the beast

And people call the Catholic Church bad names and that we don't follow the Bible....

Don't be hatin' 8)

Yup, I watched this special the other day where they played the tongues spoken by popular evanglists backwards. It was pretty freaky, like when this one guy put his hand on this old woman and shouted something, it played back as receive the mark of the beast

And people call the Catholic Church bad names and that we don't follow the Bible....

Don't be hatin' 8)We don't hate, we exocummincate! 8)

Oh Lord...and I mean that literally as a prayer.

Please, PLEASE don't continue to call these shysters "Protestants" - they are pentecostal, holy roller type preachers that represent a VERY SMALL MINORITY of Protestants out there. And not all Pentecostals are like this either, since my best friend from high school is Pentecostal.

I am a Protestant. I come from a long line of Protestants - Lutherans, Baptists, Non-Denoms...and we don't behave like this. I teach in a Lutheran High School. We have chapel every day. It's quiet, respectful and worshipful.

Protestant merely means non-Catholic. It comes from when the original reformers like Martin Luther protested against the practices of the dark age Catholic church. So, we are closely related to catholicism, and frankly, Martin Luther never wanted a Lutheran church...he wanted reform in what he considered to be The One True Church.

So please...don't lump us together.

Thanks, and God bless. :)

these people are total cranks in it for the money... just like the catholic church :wink:

Oh Lord...and I mean that literally as a prayer.

Please, PLEASE don't continue to call these shysters "Protestants" - they are pentecostal, holy roller type preachers that represent a VERY SMALL MINORITY of Protestants out there. And not all Pentecostals are like this either, since my best friend from high school is Pentecostal.

I am a Protestant. I come from a long line of Protestants - Lutherans, Baptists, Non-Denoms...and we don't behave like this. I teach in a Lutheran High School. We have chapel every day. It's quiet, respectful and worshipful.

Protestant merely means non-Catholic. It comes from when the original reformers like Martin Luther protested against the practices of the dark age Catholic church. So, we are closely related to catholicism, and frankly, Martin Luther never wanted a Lutheran church...he wanted reform in what he considered to be The One True Church.

So please...don't lump us together.

Thanks, and God bless. :)Any demonination decending from those who Protested the Papal Authority is a Protestant... sorry.

Any demonination decending from those who Protested the Papal Authority is a Protestant... sorry.

erm, so the orthodox and armenian christians are protestant? :wink:

Any demonination decending from those who Protested the Papal Authority is a Protestant... sorry.

I'm not sure what you are apologizing for...I said the same thing. What I did was answer the original question, which was "Do All Protestants Do This?" My answer was "No." :-)

Lumping such a disparate group together in behavior would be like lumping together all European Nations and saying "Well, of course, they all behave alike. They are *European*!"

So, yes, I'm a Protestant. No, we don't all do that. Thanks for playing...and thanks for the apology.

(Isn't it interesting that the defense of one's faith is called apologetics?)

and frankly, Martin Luther never wanted a Lutheran church...he wanted reform in what he considered to be The One True Church.

Yes, isn't it true that Martin Luther repented and died a Catholic?

Do all Catholics touch little boys and girls? No? Well then not all Protestants scream "Jesus Child You Are HEALED!!! Where is my $21.95!"

Do all Catholics touch little boys and girls? No? Well then not all Protestants scream "Jesus Child You Are HEALED!!! Where is my $21.95!"

Hey, I monly put that as a title because I had no idea what to call the thread. No need to get abusive.

>>And people call the Catholic Church bad names and that we don't follow the Bible....<<

Ah, don't mind them, they are just jealous of the fact that a catholic can get drunk and generally have a hell of a good itme, go to church on sundaymorning (with a hangover), confess and still get into heaven. A protestant is doomed forever if he does that.....

Wouldn't you get cranky with that kind of a deal and vent yuour frustration on others.......*




*this is sarcasm, no insult intended....

Surely you cannot deny that the most holy name of "JESUS" alone is reason enough for the believers to be healed of deadly diseases or blindness. It is of course, gods will, that these preachers go among the people and heal them by preaching the name of the son of god. It is these miracles which prove that god existsand that the presence of JESUS, and be it his name only, is enough to heal mankind of all diseases and rid us of all sins.

Thank god I dont believe in that crap you call religion.

Any demonination decending from those who Protested the Papal Authority is a Protestant... sorry.

Freudian slip or smear campaign: you decide.

Ah, don't mind them, they are just jealous of the fact that a catholic can get drunk and generally have a hell of a good itme, go to church on sundaymorning (with a hangover), confess and still get into heaven.

Provided there is a priest at hand to mediate between the individual and God.

A protestant is doomed forever if he does that.....

...except for those who are predestined to be saved anyhow, and any of those who sin and then make an honest individual act of repentance unmediated by any intervention by priests. That's the great thing about Protestantism - it's just you and God with nothing in between.

I think the people you're asking about are actually referred to as "Pentecostals".

They're also the ones who speak in tongues and faint and laugh and cry and fall down "in the spirit".

I was raised a Lutheran, and mostly we just mumble the responses, sing without enthusiasm and out of tune, and do it all to get through the service and to the pancake breakfast in the church basement.

I'm an American Protestant, (Calvanist, Lutheren and Anababtist leanings) and dude, we seriously have never done stuff like that. You're watching some hard core preaching there in a style that I don't think anyone in the US agrees with, that I know of.

I really don't know about how the Holy Spirit works within some people. Some youth pastors I know would fall to the ground crying while we sang. It was kind of desturbing, but that was when I was atheist. Now, I find myself crying during songs.

My church is probably the most radical of all the ones I've yet seen in my town, and what really makes us radical is that we have a lot of contemporary music, do a load of international work and are beasty conservative in our interperatation of the Bible.

I've never fallen down in a faint just from the calling of Jesus's name, nor have I ever seen anyone healed just with Christs name. I've looked into neither yet, but really, that isn't common at all.

Just thought you'd like an opinion from one of us.

-R. S.

I'm an American Protestant, (Calvanist, Lutheren and Anababtist leanings) and dude, we seriously have never done stuff like that. You're watching some hard core preaching there in a style that I don't think anyone in the US agrees with, that I know of.

I really don't know about how the Holy Spirit works within some people. Some youth pastors I know would fall to the ground crying while we sang. It was kind of desturbing, but that was when I was atheist. Now, I find myself crying during songs.

My church is probably the most radical of all the ones I've yet seen in my town, and what really makes us radical is that we have a lot of contemporary music, do a load of international work and are beasty conservative in our interperatation of the Bible.

I've never fallen down in a faint just from the calling of Jesus's name, nor have I ever seen anyone healed just with Christs name. I've looked into neither yet, but really, that isn't common at all.

Just thought you'd like an opinion from one of us.

-R. S.

I'm an American Protestant, (Calvanist, Lutheren and Anababtist leanings) and dude, we seriously have never done stuff like that. You're watching some hard core preaching there in a style that I don't think anyone in the US agrees with, that I know of.

I really don't know about how the Holy Spirit works within some people. Some youth pastors I know would fall to the ground crying while we sang. It was kind of desturbing, but that was when I was atheist. Now, I find myself crying during songs.

My church is probably the most radical of all the ones I've yet seen in my town, and what really makes us radical is that we have a lot of contemporary music, do a load of international work and are beasty conservative in our interperatation of the Bible.

I've never fallen down in a faint just from the calling of Jesus's name, nor have I ever seen anyone healed just with Christs name. I've looked into neither yet, but really, that isn't common at all.

Just thought you'd like an opinion from one of us.

-R. S.

Yes, isn't it true that Martin Luther repented and died a Catholic?

Unless I am very much mistaken (which is a possibility) no it isn't true.

Any demonination decending from those who Protested the Papal Authority is a Protestant... sorry.

erm, so the orthodox and armenian christians are protestant? :wink:No, because they didn't. Please actually read before you embaress yourself again.

Sure is, from Benny Hynn to Kenith steal you wallet Copeland.

whoa! damn i always knew there was something sinister with the copeland chap...Benny Hinn....his name sounds familiar...maybe i should watch the show at some point. Bah it's like 4am, why would i bother.

I am a Christian or anything like it (though my IC character would given that impression), but this TV evangelism stuff is heresy. They run about saying God or Jesus speaks to them everyday while the Saints of old only had the same contact in when God supposedly talked to them at rare moments. If God speaks to you everyday, you'd have to be Saint. which these preachers are not. They use mass-hysteria to control their crowds and other psychological means.

If God speaks to you everyday, you'd have to be Saint. which these preachers are not.

Proof?

If God speaks to you everyday, you'd have to be Saint. which these preachers are not.

Proof?

Correction = PROPHET

If God speaks to you everyday, you'd have a new version of New Testament for the next 2000 years by now.

If God speaks to you everyday, you'd have a new version of New Testament for the next 2000 years by now.

I think you are being overly literal in your interpretation of the idea of God speaking to you - it doesn't necessarilly mean a booming voice in the wilderness accompanied by the chanting of seraphims and cherubims.

If God speaks to you everyday, you'd have a new version of New Testament for the next 2000 years by now.

I think you are being overly literal in your interpretation of the idea of God speaking to you - it doesn't necessarilly mean a booming voice in the wilderness accompanied by the chanting of seraphims and cherubims.

or talking burning bushes :) . I was talking about visions and moments of enlightment experienced by the Saints.

...or talking burning bushes :) . I was talking about visions and moments of enlightment experienced by the Saints.

But, is it not possible that such televangelists do experience frequent minor internal religious experiences which they label as "God speaking to them"?

Yes, isn't it true that Martin Luther repented and died a Catholic?

Unless I am very much mistaken (which is a possibility) no it isn't true.

No, all Luther did was point out the hypocrisy and problems in the church at the time. When he did so, he sincerely thought that many, including the pope, would agree with him. Unfortunately, he was hmmm... let's say ... a very strong personality. Some of his tenets said things like "Surely the pope doesn't believe X, because if he did he would go to hell." So people got pissed off that he didn't want them to keep hoarding money and stuff and took it to the pope and Luther got excommunicated.

The way I understand the Catholic Church, you can't just repent and then die as a Catholic after that. If there is a method of repealing an excommunication, I'm pretty sure it's complicated. Besides, Luther never voluntarily left the church and believed he was reforming the Catholic church, not leaving it.

...or talking burning bushes :) . I was talking about visions and moments of enlightment experienced by the Saints.

But, is it not possible that such televangelists do experience frequent minor internal religious experiences which they label as "God speaking to them"?

Maybe, but if they are God's true messengers to the world, then why do they require a multi-million $$$ company to spread the true word? False prophets are common as many have fallen with their companies. A true man of God lives by his word and not his publicity machine.

I apply the same contempt for many so-called India gurus as well and other religions. False prophets abound in this world.

[quote="Jeruselem
Correction = PROPHET

If God speaks to you everyday, you'd have a new version of New Testament for the next 2000 years by now.[/quote]

This assumes that God is trying to update the New Testament (see Mormons plus loads of pseudo-Christian cults). I believe God speaks to me, but most of it is for my own personal use, or to share with specific people; He doesn't want me to write a new Bible, He wants me to understand the one I've got and live by it.
On the whole screaming-and-falling-over side of Christianity, all I can suggest is that Jesus is God over our emotions and physical bodies as well as our intellects. Some Christians get very demonstrative when God is doing business with them, some stay fairly quiet. Neither is a sign of, or in opposition to, true faith in Christ. Some Protestant denominations do this dramatic stuff more than others, but what matters is the change in character in the person involved.
I know some of you have a problem with Christians in general, or maybe just with particular manifestations of Christianity which offend you. I love Jesus Christ and have chosen to follow Him forever; this is not true of everyone who calls themselves a Christian, and I'm not living life just the way God wants me to yet, but God wants everyone to come to Him so He can sort them out.

I was raised a Lutheran until the age of about 16, then I got in trouble and went to a place that was run by a pentecostal group. They took me to church, it was mandatory, and I saw someone speaking in tongues for the first time in my life. It scared the shit out of me. I thought they were possessed. I ran out of the sanctuary crying and scared. They followed me and took me back in, and insisted that I was all wrong, and it was a special gift from God. The approach only scared me even more, and made me believe that this kind of church is really a cult. To this day, I have no time for pentecostals, and it is because they have these kinds of ambassadors.

That's my personal story. Take from it what you will.

Yes, they are on commercial tv around 3am as part of some bizzare federal law. But I'm thankful I never bothered getting the Christian channel with my cable package. I don't need that kind of stress.

And do they make people faint by screaming Jesus like some crazed madman?Yup, I watched this special the other day where they played the tongues spoken by popular evanglists backwards. It was pretty freaky, like when this one guy put his hand on this old woman and shouted something, it played back as receive the mark of the beast

I would like to know more about this show. What was it called and what channel was it on?

I was raised a Lutheran until the age of about 16, then I got in trouble and went to a place that was run by a pentecostal group. They took me to church, it was mandatory, and I saw someone speaking in tongues for the first time in my life. It scared the shit out of me. I thought they were possessed. I ran out of the sanctuary crying and scared. They followed me and took me back in, and insisted that I was all wrong, and it was a special gift from God. The approach only scared me even more, and made me believe that this kind of church is really a cult. To this day, I have no time for pentecostals, and it is because they have these kinds of ambassadors.

That's my personal story. Take from it what you will.

It sucks that you had such a bad experience with a Pentecostal church. I'm not Pentecostal, but the Pente's I've met have generally been nice, if a little strange sometimes. I "speak in tongues", to use the Biblical expression, and I think if it was good for St. Paul, it's good enough for me, but it's not a requirement of true Christianity (if I understand my New Testament correctly) and anyone who says it's the most important part of following Jesus has, in my opinion, got their priorities misplaced.
Hope this helps. :)

I was raised a Lutheran until the age of about 16, then I got in trouble and went to a place that was run by a pentecostal group. They took me to church, it was mandatory, and I saw someone speaking in tongues for the first time in my life. It scared the shit out of me. I thought they were possessed. I ran out of the sanctuary crying and scared. They followed me and took me back in, and insisted that I was all wrong, and it was a special gift from God. The approach only scared me even more, and made me believe that this kind of church is really a cult. To this day, I have no time for pentecostals, and it is because they have these kinds of ambassadors.

That's my personal story. Take from it what you will.

It sucks that you had such a bad experience with a Pentecostal church. I'm not Pentecostal, but the Pente's I've met have generally been nice, if a little strange sometimes. I "speak in tongues", to use the Biblical expression, and I think if it was good for St. Paul, it's good enough for me, but it's not a requirement of true Christianity (if I understand my New Testament correctly) and anyone who says it's the most important part of following Jesus has, in my opinion, got their priorities misplaced.
Hope this helps. :)

I was raised a Lutheran until the age of about 16, then I got in trouble and went to a place that was run by a pentecostal group. They took me to church, it was mandatory, and I saw someone speaking in tongues for the first time in my life. It scared the shit out of me. I thought they were possessed. I ran out of the sanctuary crying and scared. They followed me and took me back in, and insisted that I was all wrong, and it was a special gift from God. The approach only scared me even more, and made me believe that this kind of church is really a cult. To this day, I have no time for pentecostals, and it is because they have these kinds of ambassadors.

That's my personal story. Take from it what you will.

It sucks that you had such a bad experience with a Pentecostal church. I'm not Pentecostal, but the Pente's I've met have generally been nice, if a little strange sometimes. I "speak in tongues", to use the Biblical expression, and I think if it was good for St. Paul, it's good enough for me, but it's not a requirement of true Christianity (if I understand my New Testament correctly) and anyone who says it's the most important part of following Jesus has, in my opinion, got their priorities misplaced.
Hope this helps. :)

I don't like to say this, because it sounds as if I'm condemning christianity, when I consider myself to be a christian, if a bit of a purist, but the experience made me very suspicious of any attempt at conversion. The many times it's been tried on me, I've found that the person doing it has not even asked me about my religious faith, but simply launched into their forced conversion. You see, it wouldn't matter to them. If they haven't seen you at their church in particular, you're not a christian. Even if you were a part of their church, they'd very likely feel that they were more of a christian and much more devout than you were.

I see this as an aggressive thing to do, and I generally get very hostile in response to their overtures. It's part of the reason I don't attend church. I feel, perhaps even a little unfairly, that the people trying to approach me are only doing so for their own sense of self-rightiousness. I'm forever soured against organized christianity, because I've been shown so little respect by the people who claim to be christians.

It has always left me with the incredible feeling of having been violated. That will never convert me to anything.

I was raised a Lutheran until the age of about 16, then I got in trouble and went to a place that was run by a pentecostal group. They took me to church, it was mandatory, and I saw someone speaking in tongues for the first time in my life. It scared the shit out of me. I thought they were possessed. I ran out of the sanctuary crying and scared. They followed me and took me back in, and insisted that I was all wrong, and it was a special gift from God. The approach only scared me even more, and made me believe that this kind of church is really a cult. To this day, I have no time for pentecostals, and it is because they have these kinds of ambassadors.

That's my personal story. Take from it what you will.

It sucks that you had such a bad experience with a Pentecostal church. I'm not Pentecostal, but the Pente's I've met have generally been nice, if a little strange sometimes. I "speak in tongues", to use the Biblical expression, and I think if it was good for St. Paul, it's good enough for me, but it's not a requirement of true Christianity (if I understand my New Testament correctly) and anyone who says it's the most important part of following Jesus has, in my opinion, got their priorities misplaced.
Hope this helps. :)

what is speaking in tounges all about anyway? from what i've seen (on TV, so not that much) it seems to be about falling on the floor and speaking gibberish which seems to me to be more a gift from a seizure than God.

In my experience, it is a gift of a message from God, directed either at the entire congregation or at a specific person. The word "pentecostal" comes from Acts 2, in which the followers of Christ were together in one place, and the holy spirit came in a great wind and flames appeared above their heads, and they spoke in tongues, and each one there heard what was said in his OWN tongue.

As I've seen it done, one person gets up and begins to spout gibberish, as if in a trance, and invariably it is one of the elders or the minister himself who translates it into scripture or sermon. It is never intelligible to anyone but them, and usually the person speaking in tongues was from among the church elders too.

Is this quite normal for Protestant ongregations?
Only on TV or at fruity churchs. It is not widely accepted, especially at larger churchs.

I do not judge.
You sure have a funny way to show it. You seem to judge them as gullible fools.

Not that I disagree. Those shows are silly.

I don't like to say this, because it sounds as if I'm condemning christianity, when I consider myself to be a christian, if a bit of a purist, but the experience made me very suspicious of any attempt at conversion. The many times it's been tried on me, I've found that the person doing it has not even asked me about my religious faith, but simply launched into their forced conversion. You see, it wouldn't matter to them. If they haven't seen you at their church in particular, you're not a christian. Even if you were a part of their church, they'd very likely feel that they were more of a christian and much more devout than you were.

I see this as an aggressive thing to do, and I generally get very hostile in response to their overtures. It's part of the reason I don't attend church. I feel, perhaps even a little unfairly, that the people trying to approach me are only doing so for their own sense of self-rightiousness. I'm forever soured against organized christianity, because I've been shown so little respect by the people who claim to be christians.

It has always left me with the incredible feeling of having been violated. That will never convert me to anything.

Some people preach about Jesus because they think they're better than the people they're preaching to. Some do it to salve a guilty conscience, or to live up to the set of rules their particular church lays down. There are also some who have found Someone so wonderful that they want to share Him with everyone, and sometimes they do this clumsily.
I hope that you feel I show you respect when I say that I believe everyone needs to follow Jesus, that the consequences of doing so are too good to ever fully describe, and the consequences of not doing so are, to use an understatement, bad. I cannot prove my beliefs, but if I reveal them to others, I believe I must do so humbly and gently, 'cause my Boss is humble and gentle. I don't know what you believe, so I don't know what God thinks of what you believe, but I hope you are willing to try to find out what He thinks.

what is speaking in tounges all about anyway? from what i've seen (on TV, so not that much) it seems to be about falling on the floor and speaking gibberish which seems to me to be more a gift from a seizure than God.

Speaking in tongues is, as far as I understand it, speaking a language that God gives you direct. There are different ways this can work.

Sometimes you speak it, and you don't know with your conscious mind what you're saying, but part of you understands, and gets a spiritual boost. Sometimes you speak it, and you get the translation, or someone else does, in which case it's a message from God on something specific. Sometimes, you speak it, and it's in the native language of a person who's listening, so that God can give them a special message without language barriers getting in the way.

If you're cynical, you can say that all of this is lunacy or fraud, and I accept that some of what is referred to as "tongues" probably is one of those cases. My point is that God does loads of weird stuff, and He's allowed to, 'cause He's God. If you accept that God can do supernatural things today, this sort of thing becomes more plausible. If you don't believe in God, of course, it'll always seem crazy or deceitful.

The truth is that I believe in God, and I live my life according to what Jesus tried to tell us. The problem is that nobody who's ever tried to convert me has asked me. They just launch into it.

This is why I avoid the fundamentalists, don't attend church, and am eternally suspicious of anyone who brings up the subject to me.

I was watching, two days ago, God TV (a digital channel in the UK which I expect all of you can get as they broadcast to virtually every nation in the world).

God TV, for those who don't know about it, is Protestant. It's programmes are all Protestant (particularly Methodist) and it's preachers are Protestant (such as Pat Robertson for those in the US and Joyce Meyer).

Whilst I'm a Catholic, it's the only Christian channel and so I watch quite a bit of it. However, I was extremely disturbed to see some of the, in effect, weirdness which it broadcasted. Here are the two programmes (both with the same type of content) which made me very uneasy:

1) A South African programme. The Priest (or whatever they call the Preacher) took a handbag from the audience, screamed 'JESUS' at the top of his voice and threw the bag into the audience (which probably numbered about 10,000). Once the bag hit a front row audience member, the crowd began to scream and everybody fell down. I was amazed. People then just lay on the floor as if they had fainted and the whole building was in hysterics with grown men even crying.

2) Another programme I was watching yesterday showed a Preacher in India. He had people on his stagem was shouting Jesus and then touching this people and they would faint. He was also 'healing' people right there and then of blindness and paralysis by just shouting Jesus.

I also know that this sort of thing is done in America in Protestant communities.

This seems very absurd and perhaps even heretical to me. I can not help but view these as staged events with the normal audience getting caught up in the 'moment'. I view the preachers as, basically, conmen.

Is this quite normal for Protestant ongregations?
Yes, but only in South Carolina :lol: And only in Baptist Churches. BTW, I am a Lutheran Church Missouri Synod member in North Carolina, REPRESENT YALL!

Do all Protestants do this? Absolutely not. I am an American Protestant, and my church does not belong to any one denomination, but I know for certain that we do not practice any of the things you've mentioned. Many (I will not say all) television evangelists are in the business only for the money. The ones who are in it only for the money like to call themselves Prostestants, messengers from God, and tell people that they can heal them and solve all of their problems. These people abuse the name of Jesus Christ for their own gain, and give a bad reputation to Protestants everywhere.

Sheilanagig, it breaks my heart to hear of your bad experience. My church is incredibly bent on missions, but we do not force anyone to convert. Conversion is a personal decision, all we can do is get the message to everyone around us and encourage people to make the right decision. You say that you do, in fact, believe in Jesus Christ and try to follow his teachings. I would encourage you to look into different churches. Not all churches are like what you have experienced, in fact, I would dare say that they are a minority. Of course, attending a church is not a requirement to get into heaven, but in the New Testament we are encouraged by many of the writers to 'fellowship with other believers' as well as with non-believers. I pray that you find a church family that does not judge you so quickly and assume that you are unsaved, and who will encourage you in your walk with God.

To the general population, my belief with 'speaking in tongues' is that everyone in the room heard the message in they're native tongues, meaning, if some of them spoke Greek, they heard it in Greek. If they spoke Aramaic, they heard it in Aramaic. This has been a debate in the Protestant church for quite a while now, and I believe that I could be right or those who believe otherwise could be right, only God knows for sure.

I hope everyone finds the answers they're looking for and I hope I cleared up a bit for at least someone.

God bless you all

~*Agape*~

Being a Protestant, I can confirm that, no, we do not all do that.

I was watching, two days ago, God TV (a digital channel in the UK which I expect all of you can get as they broadcast to virtually every nation in the world).

God TV, for those who don't know about it, is Protestant. It's programmes are all Protestant (particularly Methodist) and it's preachers are Protestant (such as Pat Robertson for those in the US and Joyce Meyer).

Whilst I'm a Catholic, it's the only Christian channel and so I watch quite a bit of it. However, I was extremely disturbed to see some of the, in effect, weirdness which it broadcasted. Here are the two programmes (both with the same type of content) which made me very uneasy:

1) A South African programme. The Priest (or whatever they call the Preacher) took a handbag from the audience, screamed 'JESUS' at the top of his voice and threw the bag into the audience (which probably numbered about 10,000). Once the bag hit a front row audience member, the crowd began to scream and everybody fell down. I was amazed. People then just lay on the floor as if they had fainted and the whole building was in hysterics with grown men even crying.

2) Another programme I was watching yesterday showed a Preacher in India. He had people on his stagem was shouting Jesus and then touching this people and they would faint. He was also 'healing' people right there and then of blindness and paralysis by just shouting Jesus.

I also know that this sort of thing is done in America in Protestant communities.

This seems very absurd and perhaps even heretical to me. I can not help but view these as staged events with the normal audience getting caught up in the 'moment'. I view the preachers as, basically, conmen.

Is this quite normal for Protestant ongregations?
Honestly, do you even have to ask this?

To answer I'll flip the question about:

1. On TV it appears that all catholic girls (the schoolgirls even more-so) are totally slutty. Is this true?

2. I've seen a bunch of catholics on TV against abortion. Are all Catholics middle aged angry women with picket signs?

3. I saw X group doing Y thing on TV. Are all X people like that?

---------------
As Cog says, "Think about it."


To be more direct, No. God no.
They're called Televangelists, and a good majority of Protestants find them annoying.

I am a Christian or anything like it (though my IC character would given that impression), but this TV evangelism stuff is heresy. They run about saying God or Jesus speaks to them everyday while the Saints of old only had the same contact in when God supposedly talked to them at rare moments. If God speaks to you everyday, you'd have to be Saint. which these preachers are not. They use mass-hysteria to control their crowds and other psychological means.

True, but they do refer to themselves and other 'pastors' (apparently, that is the word for Priest in their Church :roll: ) as SAINTS!

I think you are being overly literal in your interpretation of the idea of God speaking to you - it doesn't necessarilly mean a booming voice in the wilderness accompanied by the chanting of seraphims and cherubims.

No, he is quite correct. The founder of God TV, Wendy, believes that she is an 'unknown Prophet' and that her creation of God TV is actually the start of the end, you get me. It's actually the coming true of a revelation. It's all on their website which I posted.

If there is a method of repealing an excommunication, I'm pretty sure it's complicated.

Popes have done it pretty easily. Such as when it came to King Henry II (I think).

Wow.. I'd have to say I'm actually amased that people do these types of things... I agree, that everyone is probably entitiled to show their love for God in their own way if they want, but come on?!!!

I'm a Protestant, and believe me, this isn't s practice that we ALL do! To be honest, I'm not a particular fan of these people that act up as they do sometimes.. it's really nice that they believe so much, but there are actually people out there that are conning the others, and that's not fair!

I'm a Protestant, and believe me, this isn't s practice that we ALL do! To be honest, I'm not a particular fan of these people that act up as they do sometimes.. it's really nice that they believe so much, but there are actually people out there that are conning the others, and that's not fair!

Unfortunately that is a fact of life, not just evangelism.

Yeah this is true, and is a shame.. but if these people are conmen then would'nt they have crossed the line so to speak by using another persons 'beliefs' against them? But like you said, it is how things are with everything now!

Some protestants handle venomous serpents and drink strychnine, others eat jello with little coloured marshmallows suspended in it and mumble their way through off key hymns in church basements. It's all part of the pomp and circumstance (and mysticism) of any run of the mill religion. I understand, though I've never seen it personally, that catholics eat human flesh and drink blood in their enormous stone cathedrals. Well, all right, I guess I have seen it - but it looked like grape juice and saltines from where I was sitting though.

Years ago, when Steve Martin was making a movie called "Leap of Faith" about a corrupt tent show preacher, he went to a few evangelical conventions in Texas and some other places and was amazed that they were mostly about seperating the congregants from their money. It's all about costuming and lighting and sound systems and making products like key chains and teeshirts with a good sales track record...

Early on, those tent shows were about spectacle and entertainment...a big spoonfull of suger to make the medicine of damnation and salvation go down smooth. The music was usually good, the preaching was elaborate and emotionally stirring, the story-telling was everything one hoped it would be and the people happily reached into their pocketbooks and filled the offering baskets...before television and radio, in rural parts of America where a trip to the theatre or the library or the chataquah or the nickelodeon was time consuming and expensive, these tent shows filled an important niche. For one thing you only had to pay what you could afford...

A lot of communities couldn't afford a church or a full-time preacher, so they either got a preacher on horseback who split his time between three or four or ten communities or they'd get a tent show, though sometimes they got both. Since they got preachers more than they got doctors, sometimes the preachers filled that role too - after all, if Jesus could heal a leper, restore sight to the blind and raise the dead, a little old country preacher ought to be able to cure a little arthritis or poison ivy.

Additionally, public acts of faith healing are endemic to religions all over the world - psychic surgeons, faith healers, crystal healers, users of magnets, copper and diving rods, palmisters and the like have been chased out of one religion and into the next for centuries...

Anyway, that tent show, with all the incumbent social and historical reasons for it's gradual evolution into the thing you saw on teevee the other night, became part of a religious tradition here that got slick and huge and bizarre and has found its way onto television. You'd probably have a lot more fun at a genuine tent show. Talk about spectacle...


You'd think I'd know how to spell venomous at this stage of my life...tsk

in my experience, the answer to any question of "Do all [General group of humans] do [insert some practice or behavior]?" will always be, "No." there's always exceptions.

These things are definately scams. But, I know a lot of religious nuts who would believe that.

I am a Methodists and i can asure you we do not do that that sounds like a cult or something

Has any one seen the film 'Stigmata'? It's a good film, and the ideas it sort of presents are quite interesting..

There's a message that they like to keep going back to through-out about how originally it was never actually demanded that people pray and serve God in a church, and apparently there if a document that's been found dating back to the time of Jesus but the Vatican see's it as Heracy.... I don't actually know how reliable that is, but it's an interesting thought!

It kinda also reminded me of William Blake's poetry!

I am a Christian or anything like it (though my IC character would given that impression), but this TV evangelism stuff is heresy. They run about saying God or Jesus speaks to them everyday while the Saints of old only had the same contact in when God supposedly talked to them at rare moments. If God speaks to you everyday, you'd have to be Saint. which these preachers are not. They use mass-hysteria to control their crowds and other psychological means.

True, but they do refer to themselves and other 'pastors' (apparently, that is the word for Priest in their Church :roll: ) as SAINTS!

The Hebrew and Greek words in the Bible that get translated "Saints" in English literally mean "holy ones"; it usually occurs in the plural. In the Old Testament, all written before Jesus, it refers to the people of Israel, particularly the ones faithful to God and His commandments. In the New Testament, it refers to followers of Jesus, or Christians. It doesn't have a connotation of moral perfection, although somone who follows Jesus should be improving in character. As far as I can see, the Catholic church's approach is only to refer to somone as a saint if they've done a lengthy and careful check on their life to determine, as closely as humanly possible, if they really were a follower of Jesus or not, so they rule out a lot of quite-likelys if the evidence isn't clear to them. Protestants don't use this system, so for them, saint = Christian.

"Pastor" literally means "shepherd", and is the term used to describe the leader of a Christian community by a lot of different denominations. Some others use the term "Minister", and some don't have a single leader, and have instead a group of "elders"

"Priest" refers to somone (always a man in the Old Testament) who acts as an intermediary between the community and God, interacting with God on behalf of the people, and interacting with the people on behalf of God. I don't think this is supposed to happen in Christianity, because all Christians get to have direct access to God, which is why Peter, the first leader of the Christian church, described Christians that he was writing to as a "holy priesthood", so all Christians are priests.

in my experience, the answer to any question of "Do all [General group of humans] do [insert some practice or behavior]?" will always be, "No." there's always exceptions.

I know. My intention was not to ask such a stupid question. It was merely to get people to post in this thread. If you read my opening post it has nothing to do with the title of this thread (well, it does but it isn't asking that question, you get me).

Protestant religions are no more strange than Catholics.
After all.....most of them dont eat the symbolic flesh and blood of Jesus.

an't we just let people practise their own fith in their own way, without others calling them heretics? in short just let each other be!!!!

"After all.....most of them dont eat the symbolic flesh and blood of Jesus."
Technically its not symbolic, it actually turns into his flesha nd blood.

an't we just let people practise their own fith in their own way, without others calling them heretics? in short just let each other be!!!!

"After all.....most of them dont eat the symbolic flesh and blood of Jesus."
Technically its not symbolic, it actually turns into his flesha nd blood.

Right.

So...its cannibalism then.

Thats pretty wierd, in my book.

I'm religious and all these nuts on tv and out and about speaking of politics scare the hell out of me. I'm actually very religious but I'm not insane about it and I wish not to force my beliefs on others by banning this and that and government yadda yadda

If Jesus was being literal about the bread and wine at the Last Supper, then I have to wonder about when He said He was a vine, and when He said He was a door.

I've wondered for quite a while about various things the Roman Catholic Church does/believes:

1) Why must priests be celibate? Peter, thought to be the first Pope, was married. It says right in the Bible that Jesus healed Peter's mother-in-law, and Jewish priests were allowed to marry and have families.

2) What's with praying to the Virgin Mary and high-profile saints? It says in 2 Timothy there is one mediator between man and God, and that is Christ Jesus.

3) What's the theological reasoning behind eating fish on Fridays?

4) The Transubstantiation

5) What's a venal sin and a mortal sin, and why does the differentiation matter?

If Jesus was being literal about the bread and wine at the Last Supper, then I have to wonder about when He said He was a vine, and when He said He was a door.

I've wondered for quite a while about various things the Roman Catholic Church does/believes:

1) Why must priests be celibate? Peter, thought to be the first Pope, was married. It says right in the Bible that Jesus healed Peter's mother-in-law, and Jewish priests were allowed to marry and have families.

2) What's with praying to the Virgin Mary and high-profile saints? It says in 2 Timothy there is one mediator between man and God, and that is Christ Jesus.

3) What's the theological reasoning behind eating fish on Fridays?

4) The Transubstantiation

5) What's a venal sin and a mortal sin, and why does the differentiation matter?

I'm a bit suspicious of exactly these points, plus others like the infallibility of the Pope, purgatory and praying for the dead to get out of it, and the Catholic attitude towards confession. I'm hoping to get into converstion with Catholics who have really looked into these questions and see what they say.
Also, I want to check I'm challenging the actual current position of the Vatican on these things, and not just the misinterpretations that individual Catholics come up with, or the spin that Protestantism has come up with down the centuries. I'm an evangelical Christian (FUNDY ALERT!), but that doesn't mean Catholics are my enemies (the line some Protestants take); I think many, but not all of them are true followers of Jesus, and I think the same about people in my denomination (Vineyard).

1) Why must priests be celibate? Peter, thought to be the first Pope, was married. It says right in the Bible that Jesus healed Peter's mother-in-law, and Jewish priests were allowed to marry and have families.

The reason why is because in about 1000, the Church decided that Priests must be celibate as they should devote their lives to the Church and serving God and nothing else.

2) What's with praying to the Virgin Mary and high-profile saints? It says in 2 Timothy there is one mediator between man and God, and that is Christ Jesus.

WE DO NOT PRAY TO THE VIRGIN MARY OR SAINTS. That makes it sound as if we are praying to them as Gods and we do not believe that. We use them as mediators because we believe that they, particularly the Holy Mother, has a special position between us and God.

3) What's the theological reasoning behind eating fish on Fridays?

No idea about that. I don't eat fish.

4) The Transubstantiation

What? Do you want to know what it is? Transubstantiation is the belief that the wine and bread in Mass actually turns into the body and blood of Christ, regardless of whether you can see it or not.

5) What's a venal sin and a mortal sin, and why does the differentiation matter?

Hmm, not sure. I'll have to check up on that.

1) Why must priests be celibate? Peter, thought to be the first Pope, was married. It says right in the Bible that Jesus healed Peter's mother-in-law, and Jewish priests were allowed to marry and have families.

The reason why is because in about 1000, the Church decided that Priests must be celibate as they should devote their lives to the Church and serving God and nothing else.

2) What's with praying to the Virgin Mary and high-profile saints? It says in 2 Timothy there is one mediator between man and God, and that is Christ Jesus.

WE DO NOT PRAY TO THE VIRGIN MARY OR SAINTS. That makes it sound as if we are praying to them as Gods and we do not believe that. We use them as mediators because we believe that they, particularly the Holy Mother, has a special position between us and God.

3) What's the theological reasoning behind eating fish on Fridays?

No idea about that. I don't eat fish.

4) The Transubstantiation

What? Do you want to know what it is? Transubstantiation is the belief that the wine and bread in Mass actually turns into the body and blood of Christ, regardless of whether you can see it or not.

5) What's a venal sin and a mortal sin, and why does the differentiation matter?

Hmm, not sure. I'll have to check up on that.

5) What's a venal sin and a mortal sin, and why does the differentiation matter?

Hmm, not sure. I'll have to check up on that.

A venial sin is one which is not particularily serious and can be forgiven through the taking of communion by itself and private prayer.

A mortal sin is one which is extremely serious and confession and lots of prayer is needed to forgive it. 7 deadly sins and stuff like that.

I think thats what those two are.

A venial sin is one which is not particularily serious and can be forgiven through the taking of communion by itself and private prayer.

A mortal sin is one which is extremely serious and confession and lots of prayer is needed to forgive it. 7 deadly sins and stuff like that.

I think thats what those two are.

Okay, I'd agree with that.

I myself am a Pentacostal, and I must say that most of the stuff that I have personally seen on the different evangelical shows is disturbing. More often then not, these shows put the protestants, especially the Pentecostals, in a worse light then prior to the show. If you want to see what a Pentecostal church is like, here´s a link to my churches website. You can view worship sessions as well as different messages presented by the pastor. http://www.christianlifeassembly.com/media/streaming/index.html

Hope this gives some light into what a Pentecostal church is like.

A South African programme. The Priest (or whatever they call the Preacher) took a handbag from the audience, screamed 'JESUS' at the top of his voice and threw the bag into the audience (which probably numbered about 10,000). Once the bag hit a front row audience member, the crowd began to scream and everybody fell down. I was amazed. People then just lay on the floor as if they had fainted and the whole building was in hysterics with grown men even crying.




Meh...Christians are by nature weak-willed, and unable to look at public hysterics with an objective eye. That is the result of having such an undiscerning and populist culture. If one out of 10,000 acts like a fool, the other 9,999 will follow. They often bear a striking resemblance to soccer hooligans...except for the bag thing.