NationStates Jolt Archive

*if this is allowed to pass itll result in the death of privacy in amerikkka and the rise of police state tyranny against all forms of dissent

Senate Moves to OK Pentagon Domestic Spy Operations
Newsweek is reporting that the Senate Intelligence Committee has given its backing to a new bill that would vastly expand the Pentagon's ability to conduct domestic spy operations and to be able to recruit citizens as informants. The bill would exempt the Pentagon from the Privacy Act which was passed in the 1970s after it was revealed that Army intelligence agents were spying on anti-war protesters
www.democracynow.org

Land of the free, home of the exploited

Meh, if this was such a legit story the news channels would publicize all this by now

Meh, if this was such a legit story the news channels would publicize all this by now

Dream on. There is no "free" press here unless it is underground or non-profit, as Democracy Now is. All major media are privately owned. Do you think that Rupert Murdock and Ted Turner are at all worried about this bill? Or that they are willing to take sides against the government?

- Dru

LOL At least try to mislead us with a link to CNN or something...

DemocracyNow, LOL

I hope you don't go there for all your news, humble drone.

It's not as bad as TRA is making it sound, however. This is just letting the Pentagon have easier power to spot those that want to hurt us, without hurting our civil liberties. After all, the Supreme Court has made no noises that this is unconstitutional, but they have a right to declare it so in the future.
Personally, however, I feel that this law will do little to weaken our privacy. Technically, it's not there. If one is anywhere in public, virtually anywhere in the world, the US, if it really wanted to, can track our every move. Acting on the intelligence they gather, however, is a completely different story, and so far, the Pentagon doesn't have the authority to make arrests in the US, unless Posse Comitatus is repealed.

Dont stockpile large amounts of anthrax in your basement and ya'll should be fine... :D

Unfortunate. Not to mention the matrix program, patriot act and others I mean we should perhaps have such things to an extent maybe I'm the kinda guy who hates it all really from social security to federal currency and so on not to mention cameras in public that tape you know way am I a fan of any of this. If I were a senator I'd vote against it

Believe it, there is no free press in this country. All of the major news outlets are sponsored by corporations. They don't want to lose this sponsorship, and those corporations are also doing some political lobbying, so anything that interferes with the interests of their sponsors, ie. cutting down a certain politician or measure, is strictly verboten.

The only publications exempt from this are indeed the underground or internet publications, and there are bloody few of those worth paying attention to, too.

No point to talking about the press being not free because they're run by corporations. That doesn't make them unfree, it makes them businesses which are going to give you a packaged item that they think you want to consume. They're not forced into doing it, they just feel it makes for a better product (and considering the number of people who watch CNN and all that other jazz, they're probably right that people want it). As was remarked in a Non Sequitur comic strip (I forget which), "Critical thinking makes us sleepy." It's a shame, but true of most folks that they don't care to evaluate how they feel about things, should we expect anything different of the press? You just gotta learn to sift through the fluff to get at the chewey nougat.

Also! Privacy rights are tixky business, especially when they get mixed up in national security (which I consider an oxymoron, but that would be another thread, I think). It's hard to find that line where you can ask the intelligence community to do their jobs and still have your privacy protected. You can't have your cake and eat it, too, certainly not in this case. Well, not as long as 'national security' is the dominant working theory of homeland defense. You kind of just have to decide which is more important to you and run with it. Either that, or (heaven forbid) actually re-evaluate our approach to security.

No point to talking about the press being not free because they're run by corporations. That doesn't make them unfree, it makes them businesses which are going to give you a packaged item that they think you want to consume. They're not forced into doing it, they just feel it makes for a better product (and considering the number of people who watch CNN and all that other jazz, they're probably right that people want it). As was remarked in a Non Sequitur comic strip (I forget which), "Critical thinking makes us sleepy." It's a shame, but true of most folks that they don't care to evaluate how they feel about things, should we expect anything different of the press? You just gotta learn to sift through the fluff to get at the chewey nougat.

Ahh but it is not all the peoples fault. The corps play into this as well.

When money gets involved the actions of right quickly turn into wrong.

Lawsuits! Many a story has died because of the estimated lawsuits resulting from it.

Advertising. The local paper had an indepth undercover story with 13 parts on how the local auto dealerships ripe people off. The story was killed after the 2nd piece. The dealerships threatened to pull their ads.

Investigative journalism is a dying art. As I heard one guy put it. Not exact quote: It is very costly and it does not always pay off big.

The American News agencies really can be trusted like they were in the past. You have to review several sources to get an idea as to the events of the world.

Meh, if this was such a legit story the news channels would publicize all this by nowhow many times must you be shown how utterly useless the corporate media in america is?--I thought the Reagan funeral wouldve made that more then obvious by now

LOL At least try to mislead us with a link to CNN or something...

DemocracyNow, LOL

I hope you don't go there for all your news, humble drone.its the only legit source of news in police state amerikkka besides air america

It's not as bad as TRA is making it sound, however. This is just letting the Pentagon have easier power to spot those that want to hurt us, without hurting our civil liberties. After all, the Supreme Court has made no noises that this is unconstitutional, but they have a right to declare it so in the future.
Personally, however, I feel that this law will do little to weaken our privacy. Technically, it's not there. If one is anywhere in public, virtually anywhere in the world, the US, if it really wanted to, can track our every move. Acting on the intelligence they gather, however, is a completely different story, and so far, the Pentagon doesn't have the authority to make arrests in the US, unless Posse Comitatus is repealed.so you wouldnt feel embarrassed getting undressed in front of Big Brother either I suppose?

Dont stockpile large amounts of anthrax in your basement and ya'll should be fine... :Dits the military thats the one that stockpiles anthrax maybe they should be watching themselfs

No point to talking about the press being not free because they're run by corporations. That doesn't make them unfree, it makes them businesses which are going to give you a packaged item that they think you want to consume. They're not forced into doing it, they just feel it makes for a better product (and considering the number of people who watch CNN and all that other jazz, they're probably right that people want it). As was remarked in a Non Sequitur comic strip (I forget which), "Critical thinking makes us sleepy." It's a shame, but true of most folks that they don't care to evaluate how they feel about things, should we expect anything different of the press? You just gotta learn to sift through the fluff to get at the chewey nougat.its a little more sleazy then this--99.9% of the media is owned by like maybe 3 corporations and they all have a vested interest in covering up the crimes of the govt--thats why they were rewarded with media consolidation by corporate facist republicans

Es inasnum, spiculum rutilum

:(

Also! Privacy rights are tixky business, especially when they get mixed up in national security (which I consider an oxymoron, but that would be another thread, I think). It's hard to find that line where you can ask the intelligence community to do their jobs and still have your privacy protected. You can't have your cake and eat it, too, certainly not in this case. Well, not as long as 'national security' is the dominant working theory of homeland defense. You kind of just have to decide which is more important to you and run with it. Either that, or (heaven forbid) actually re-evaluate our approach to security.those who sacrifice freedom for security deserves neither--I dont feel safer knowing Big Brother is watching

What about checking out the wrong books in the library, or subscribing to the wrong magazines? Looking at the wrong sites on the internet or ordering the wrong books on Amazon.

I'm sorry, but I think they should have been able to do this before, with the resources they had. Sometimes I wonder if they didn't fumble the ball on the 911 attack just to demonstrate to the american people why they need more power to track terrorists, because they didn't have enough before, and do you mind if we go through your garbage, ma'am?

Es inasnum, spiculum rutilum

:(hoc tempore obsequimamices veritas odium parit

*if this is allowed to pass itll result in the death of privacy in amerikkka and the rise of police state tyranny against all forms of dissent

Senate Moves to OK Pentagon Domestic Spy Operations
Newsweek is reporting that the Senate Intelligence Committee has given its backing to a new bill that would vastly expand the Pentagon's ability to conduct domestic spy operations and to be able to recruit citizens as informants. The bill would exempt the Pentagon from the Privacy Act which was passed in the 1970s after it was revealed that Army intelligence agents were spying on anti-war protesters
www.democracynow.org

Sweet! I have been waiting a long time for this to come around. If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear. I for one have no problem with government spies looking at me while I am going about my day. If they really want to waste their time watching me sing in the shower, then it is certainly theirs to waste. I for one think that terrorism would be a hard thing to commit in America if a bill like that passed.

*if this is allowed to pass itll result in the death of privacy in amerikkka and the rise of police state tyranny against all forms of dissent

Senate Moves to OK Pentagon Domestic Spy Operations
Newsweek is reporting that the Senate Intelligence Committee has given its backing to a new bill that would vastly expand the Pentagon's ability to conduct domestic spy operations and to be able to recruit citizens as informants. The bill would exempt the Pentagon from the Privacy Act which was passed in the 1970s after it was revealed that Army intelligence agents were spying on anti-war protesters
www.democracynow.org

Sweet! I have been waiting a long time for this to come around. If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear. I for one have no problem with government spies looking at me while I am going about my day. If they really want to waste their time watching me sing in the shower, then it is certainly theirs to waste. I for one think that terrorism would be a hard thing to commit in America if a bill like that passed.

So what if you don't know you're doing anything wrong? What if you think you have nothing to hide, but you've been subscribing to Soldier of Fortune?

It would be funny, but not "ha ha" funny if you suddenly found out that by endorsing this you'd shot yourself in the foot.

Then surely you will not object if we implant you an ID chip so we can monitor your every movement, monitor your bank account, monitor your family, who you write to, which websites you read, etc etc. The loss of civil rights in the US of A is shocking and the worst thing is that stuff like this is being used as example for other countries who often times "refine" the whole thing to perfection, limiting what you are allowed to do on your own more and more. One day you'll be required to have an ID sensor implanted in your ear, so that you can be scanned and tracked wherever you go and everyone without such a chip is a criminal and free to be killed.

*if this is allowed to pass itll result in the death of privacy in amerikkka and the rise of police state tyranny against all forms of dissent

Senate Moves to OK Pentagon Domestic Spy Operations
Newsweek is reporting that the Senate Intelligence Committee has given its backing to a new bill that would vastly expand the Pentagon's ability to conduct domestic spy operations and to be able to recruit citizens as informants. The bill would exempt the Pentagon from the Privacy Act which was passed in the 1970s after it was revealed that Army intelligence agents were spying on anti-war protesters
www.democracynow.org

Sweet! I have been waiting a long time for this to come around. If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear. I for one have no problem with government spies looking at me while I am going about my day. If they really want to waste their time watching me sing in the shower, then it is certainly theirs to waste. I for one think that terrorism would be a hard thing to commit in America if a bill like that passed.

So what if you don't know you're doing anything wrong? What if you think you have nothing to hide, but you've been subscribing to Soldier of Fortune?

It would be funny, but not "ha ha" funny if you suddenly found out that by endorsing this you'd shot yourself in the foot.

Ok, so you subscribe to Soldier of Fortune, you are picked up on the Pentagon's radar, the investigate you further, find out that you are just a citizen that likes his firearms, and they leave you alone after that. I see nothing wrong with that picture.

Well this won't be biased in the least :roll:

*if this is allowed to pass itll result in the death of privacy in amerikkka and the rise of police state tyranny against all forms of dissent

Senate Moves to OK Pentagon Domestic Spy Operations
Newsweek is reporting that the Senate Intelligence Committee has given its backing to a new bill that would vastly expand the Pentagon's ability to conduct domestic spy operations and to be able to recruit citizens as informants. The bill would exempt the Pentagon from the Privacy Act which was passed in the 1970s after it was revealed that Army intelligence agents were spying on anti-war protesters
www.democracynow.org

Sweet! I have been waiting a long time for this to come around. If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear. I for one have no problem with government spies looking at me while I am going about my day. If they really want to waste their time watching me sing in the shower, then it is certainly theirs to waste. I for one think that terrorism would be a hard thing to commit in America if a bill like that passed.with this kind of attitude itll be no time before the govt is walking us all around on leashes-- I dont have anything to hide either but that doesnt mean I want a govt agent under my bed

Then surely you will not object if we implant you an ID chip so we can monitor your every movement, monitor your bank account, monitor your family, who you write to, which websites you read, etc etc. The loss of civil rights in the US of A is shocking and the worst thing is that stuff like this is being used as example for other countries who often times "refine" the whole thing to perfection, limiting what you are allowed to do on your own more and more. One day you'll be required to have an ID sensor implanted in your ear, so that you can be scanned and tracked wherever you go and everyone without such a chip is a criminal and free to be killed.

I don't see a thing wrong with that. Ok, they know where I am. I am where I am supposed to be. If I am not, careful investigation will find that either I had a good reason for being there, or I was up to no good. If up to no good, then you have just been caught a soon-to-be suicide bomber or some other criminal that hasn't had the chance to inflict his damage upon society.

man, the senate already raped my privacy. in fact, my privacy has to go to consoling every sunday because of it. and i have a funny feeling that the senate is getting those sexually violent thoughts again. bastards...

Rape is no laughing matter. Unless you're raping a clown.

*if this is allowed to pass itll result in the death of privacy in amerikkka and the rise of police state tyranny against all forms of dissent

Senate Moves to OK Pentagon Domestic Spy Operations
Newsweek is reporting that the Senate Intelligence Committee has given its backing to a new bill that would vastly expand the Pentagon's ability to conduct domestic spy operations and to be able to recruit citizens as informants. The bill would exempt the Pentagon from the Privacy Act which was passed in the 1970s after it was revealed that Army intelligence agents were spying on anti-war protesters
www.democracynow.org

Sweet! I have been waiting a long time for this to come around. If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear. I for one have no problem with government spies looking at me while I am going about my day. If they really want to waste their time watching me sing in the shower, then it is certainly theirs to waste. I for one think that terrorism would be a hard thing to commit in America if a bill like that passed.with this kind of attitude itll be no time before the govt is walking us all around on leashes-- I dont have anything to hide either but that doesnt mean I want a govt agent under my bed

Really? We would get our own government agent under our bed? I'll have to get a taller bed then to accomodate him. What if it is a her? Hey! maybe I will get my own midget government agent to watch me! That would be cool.

Then surely you will not object if we implant you an ID chip so we can monitor your every movement, monitor your bank account, monitor your family, who you write to, which websites you read, etc etc. The loss of civil rights in the US of A is shocking and the worst thing is that stuff like this is being used as example for other countries who often times "refine" the whole thing to perfection, limiting what you are allowed to do on your own more and more. One day you'll be required to have an ID sensor implanted in your ear, so that you can be scanned and tracked wherever you go and everyone without such a chip is a criminal and free to be killed.

I don't see a thing wrong with that. Ok, they know where I am. I am where I am supposed to be. If I am not, careful investigation will find that either I had a good reason for being there, or I was up to no good. If up to no good, then you have just been caught a soon-to-be suicide bomber or some other criminal that hasn't had the chance to inflict his damage upon society.not all of us want to be kept in a govt cage

You know, in the UK they have police cameras up and down the streets of most towns. They're monitored around the clock. I know, because I've actually monitored them. I used to be a security guard, and the company that employed me ran one of the stations for the cameras.

Does it make you feel safer to know that they put a black square over the apartment building windows? Does it make you feel better to know that it could happen here?

I actually could count freckles on someone's hand a mile away, guys. I could read the brand name on the batteries they shoplifted too.

man, the senate already raped my privacy. in fact, my privacy has to go to consoling every sunday because of it. and i have a funny feeling that the senate is getting those sexually violent thoughts again. bastards...the senate needs it own sex life

You know, in the UK they have police cameras up and down the streets of most towns. They're monitored around the clock. I know, because I've actually monitored them. I used to be a security guard, and the company that employed me ran one of the stations for the cameras.

Does it make you feel safer to know that they put a black square over the apartment building windows? Does it make you feel better to know that it could happen here?

I actually could count freckles on someone's hand a mile away, guys. I could read the brand name on the batteries they shoplifted too.I guess for some people they wont realize the value of privacy until its utterly lost and by then itll be too late

Then surely you will not object if we implant you an ID chip so we can monitor your every movement, monitor your bank account, monitor your family, who you write to, which websites you read, etc etc. The loss of civil rights in the US of A is shocking and the worst thing is that stuff like this is being used as example for other countries who often times "refine" the whole thing to perfection, limiting what you are allowed to do on your own more and more. One day you'll be required to have an ID sensor implanted in your ear, so that you can be scanned and tracked wherever you go and everyone without such a chip is a criminal and free to be killed.

I don't see a thing wrong with that. Ok, they know where I am. I am where I am supposed to be. If I am not, careful investigation will find that either I had a good reason for being there, or I was up to no good. If up to no good, then you have just been caught a soon-to-be suicide bomber or some other criminal that hasn't had the chance to inflict his damage upon society.not all of us want to be kept in a govt cage

They have cages too?! You keep painting a better picture. First an improved system for catching terrorists, then your own personal government midget agent, now cages! Next you are going to tell me that they will give us all our own stylist bar code tatooed on the backs of our necks.

im a sexually transmitted disease.

I think I read somewhere that you couldn't walk down a London street without being filmed at least 100 times. I didn't feel really comfortable with it, and I don't know if I'd feel very good about it happening here.

When I worked at that station, I remember us following a couple of junkies around the entire town on camera. We even followed one into the public toilet. We couldn't actually follow her into the stall, but damned near.

Then surely you will not object if we implant you an ID chip so we can monitor your every movement, monitor your bank account, monitor your family, who you write to, which websites you read, etc etc. The loss of civil rights in the US of A is shocking and the worst thing is that stuff like this is being used as example for other countries who often times "refine" the whole thing to perfection, limiting what you are allowed to do on your own more and more. One day you'll be required to have an ID sensor implanted in your ear, so that you can be scanned and tracked wherever you go and everyone without such a chip is a criminal and free to be killed.

I don't see a thing wrong with that. Ok, they know where I am. I am where I am supposed to be. If I am not, careful investigation will find that either I had a good reason for being there, or I was up to no good. If up to no good, then you have just been caught a soon-to-be suicide bomber or some other criminal that hasn't had the chance to inflict his damage upon society.not all of us want to be kept in a govt cage

They have cages too?! You keep painting a better picture. First an improved system for catching terrorists, then your own personal government midget agent, now cages! Next you are going to tell me that they will give us all our own stylist bar code tatooed on the backs of our necks.actually theyre working on that now

After all, the Supreme Court has made no noises that this is unconstitutional, but they have a right to declare it so in the future.Sorry to pop your bubble, but the Supreme Court can only rule on something if it is brought to its attention. It will not function on its own.

After all, the Supreme Court has made no noises that this is unconstitutional, but they have a right to declare it so in the future.Sorry to pop your bubble, but the Supreme Court can only rule on something if it is brought to its attention. It will not function on its own.

im a sexually transmitted disease.wear rubber clothes

I think I read somewhere that you couldn't walk down a London street without being filmed at least 100 times. I didn't feel really comfortable with it, and I don't know if I'd feel very good about it happening here.

When I worked at that station, I remember us following a couple of junkies around the entire town on camera. We even followed one into the public toilet. We couldn't actually follow her into the stall, but damned near.did you ever catch people having sex?

Rape is no laughing matter. Unless you're raping a clown.true you cant abuse a clown

"All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." ~ Edmund Burke


I value my privacy a lot. I do not want anyone else to film me whe nI am not aware of it, no matter the intentions. The material filmed might be used against me when I was not aware of doing something illegal. With todays laws, it is impossible to always know when something is illegal. I am not a lab rat that can be monitored at all times. I will not stay silent and face the destruction of my constitutional rights.

I think I read somewhere that you couldn't walk down a London street without being filmed at least 100 times. I didn't feel really comfortable with it, and I don't know if I'd feel very good about it happening here.

When I worked at that station, I remember us following a couple of junkies around the entire town on camera. We even followed one into the public toilet. We couldn't actually follow her into the stall, but damned near.did you ever catch people having sex?

Nope, but I caught people shoplifting, shooting up, rolling drunks, getting on trains without paying..

Yeah, some world we got.

I think I read somewhere that you couldn't walk down a London street without being filmed at least 100 times. I didn't feel really comfortable with it, and I don't know if I'd feel very good about it happening here.

When I worked at that station, I remember us following a couple of junkies around the entire town on camera. We even followed one into the public toilet. We couldn't actually follow her into the stall, but damned near.did you ever catch people having sex?

Nope, but I caught people shoplifting, shooting up, rolling drunks, getting on trains without paying..

Yeah, some world we got.whats rolling drunks?

rolling drunks is basically mugging them when they're passed out.

rolling drunks is basically mugging them when they're passed out.drunks usually spend all their money on booze

Meh, if this was such a legit story the news channels would publicize all this by now

Despite these "Fringe elements" senstionalism. This is true. But its rather a moot point. They always had the eschelon network. But the government dont have much control over it. The NSA was made to be that way.

In the past eschelon has been used to spy on criminals, politicans, businessmen and private citizens "of interest" usually for the financial gain the the U.S government.

Is NBC mainstream enough for ya? Clicky (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5197014/site/newsweek)

From Newsweek
June 21 issue - Last February, two Army counterintelligence agents showed up at the University of Texas law school and demanded to see the roster from a conference on Islamic law held a few days earlier. Their reason: they were trying to track down students who the agents claimed had been asking "suspicious" questions. "I felt like I was in 'Law & Order'," said one student after being grilled by one of the agents. The incident provoked a brief campus uproar, and the Army later admitted the agents had exceeded their authority. But if the Pentagon has its way, the Army may not have to make such amends in the future. Without any public hearing or debate, NEWSWEEK has learned, Defense officials recently slipped a provision into a bill before Congress that could vastly expand the Pentagon's ability to gather intelligence inside the United States, including recruiting citizens as informants.

Ever since the 1970s, when Army intel agents were caught snooping on antiwar protesters, military intel agencies have operated under tight restrictions inside the United States. But the new provision, approved in closed session last month by the Senate Intelligence Committee, would eliminate one big restriction: that they comply with the Privacy Act, a Watergate-era law that requires government officials seeking information from a resident to disclose who they are and what they want the information for. The CIA always has been exempt—although by law it isn't supposed to operate inside the United States.

Being accused of a crime doesn't make you guilty of one. Things like this will make it easier to fabricate evidence.

It's not as bad as TRA is making it sound, however. This is just letting the Pentagon have easier power to spot those that want to hurt us, without hurting our civil liberties. After all, the Supreme Court has made no noises that this is unconstitutional, but they have a right to declare it so in the future.
Personally, however, I feel that this law will do little to weaken our privacy. Technically, it's not there. If one is anywhere in public, virtually anywhere in the world, the US, if it really wanted to, can track our every move. Acting on the intelligence they gather, however, is a completely different story, and so far, the Pentagon doesn't have the authority to make arrests in the US, unless Posse Comitatus is repealed.so you wouldnt feel embarrassed getting undressed in front of Big Brother either I suppose?
As long as I didn't know, but hey, they can't see inside homes without violating the Fourth Amendment, which this law doesn't do.

The Posse Comitatus act was in danger of being repealed as part of a rider in a bill last year. I'd say that in the Waco fiasco, it was pretty much ignored. Not that I supported the Branch Davidians, but that was the wrong way to go about it legally.

Most people, unless they're in the National Guard, don't even know what the Posse Comitatus act is.

For their benefit, I'll just tell them that it is the act that prevents the US military from being used as a domestic police force.