NationStates Jolt Archive

Well many threads are focused on conservative vs liberal and why Bush is evil etc etc.

Just wondering though...what are US, UK and Australian opposition parties offering voters as an alternative to Bush, Blair and Howard? So far, especially in the USA and UK I have heard very little of any alternatives.

[stresses the point that this thread is for real discussion and not for housekeeping, bickering or snide commentary. If you wish to post nonsense then please do not!]

In the case of the US, not much. I've said before and I still think, the Presidential election in the US is Bush vs. Bush. If things in Iraq improve slightly or at least don't get worse and the economy doesn't nose-dive, Bush will win. If either of those things get worse Bush will lose, if things remain the same it's a toss-up. The Democratic Party in the US has simply run a campaign based on having someone other than Bush be thier candidate. That's a strategic mistake in my opinion. If things improve, even slightly, they haven't got a leg to stand on.

http://www.bushin30seconds.org

Watch atleast 30 of these movies (I am at number 69) and you'll hopefully never want Bush as President again.

But is simply not wanting Bush, Blair or Howard as President/Prime Minister a good reason to elect someone who has no platform and no policies other than not being their predecessor?

CAPS LOCK IS FUN.

But is simply not wanting Bush, Blair or Howard as President/Prime Minister a good reason to elect someone who has no platform and no policies other than not being their predecessor?

Excellent point there Tygaland. Many people I have spoken to mention "the lesser of two evils" which is quite unfortunate really. Even some who say do not like John Howard have explained to me that they will vote for him anyway because they hate Latham...

Sure that is good news in my opinion, but I would prefer people saying "I am voting for Howard because he does a great job". Maybe that will happen at the next election. Who knows.

Ha. If I remember correctly, the Aust opposition party is offering us Peter Garrett, the lead singer from the band Midnight Oil.

Mu hu ha ha ha. And their running him in a seat where every-body wants a steady local man. Plus there is now a fiasco over if the guy has even voted in the last ten years.

:wink:

Poor Labor party, first Crean and now this.

CAPS LOCK IS FUN.

For the mentally challenged perhaps...oops that was rather PC and un-PC of me at the same time.
Save your spam for another thread Mr.Moderator.

Yes, I will vote for John Howard because I think the nation is on the right track under his leadership. The Liberals at present provide the best government and I see no reason to change that.

As for Peter Garrett, he is a shiny object to distract some voters from the fact they have no policies. His appointment will backfire on Labor sooner rather than later.

Apparently Peter Garrett made the US newspapers! LOL It also appears neither Kerry or Bush support Latham on his Iraq stance.

Interesting...could Latham's lack of commonsense lead to a surge of bipartisanship between democrats and republicans?

It seems to be a worldwide-spread disease that people vote for "the lesser of two evils". Exactly the same is happening in Europe - just for that alone I voted for a party that never ever had a chance at leading the country, but at least they didnt screw it up yet. If in doubt who of the two rivalling parties to vote for, I always chose one that hasnt had a chance yet.

I like the Liberal Party for the same reason, things have been going okay lately, but I really wish they would get around to funding public schools more then private, and lower the Uni fees,

And any-way, can you imagine Mark Latham as PM ? Last thing we need is for a PM who reverts to calling people a " conga line of suck-holes "

:wink:

CAPS LOCK IS FUN.

For the mentally challenged perhaps...oops that was rather PC and un-PC of me at the same time.
Save your spam for another thread Mr.Moderator.

It was a subtle comment on the title of the thread... obviously too subtle for some.

I like the Liberal Party for the same reason, things have been going okay lately, but I really wish they would get around to funding public schools more then private, and lower the Uni fees,

And any-way, can you imagine Mark Latham as PM ? Last thing we need is for a PM who reverts to calling people a " conga line of suck-holes "

:wink:

LOL when did Latham say that?

And...historically the Federal government directly finances private schools and the state governments fund public education. Public schools are already well funded (like hospitals)...except they are poorly managed. And university fees are fair I believe considering average wages of a degree holding worker.

Would that make it a " sub-title " Myrth ? :wink:

- T.R. Kom
Le Représentant de Komokom.
Ministre Régional de Substance.
http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/komokom.jpg (http://www.pipian.com/stuffforchat/gdpcalc.php?nation=komokom)
<- Not A Moderator, Just A Know It All.
" Clowns To The Left of Me ... Jokers To The Right, Here I am ... "

LOL when did Latham say that?

Oh, NED, I don't know, ages ago, all I know is it enraged every Liberal supporter I know that this guy had a chance at running the country,

:wink:

Not to mention quite a few die-hard Labor supporters. :)

Edit : I think he said it just before becoming opposition leader, or a bit after-wards, but I would lean back towards a little while before.

LOL Latham is very left isn't he :lol: Too left for some ALP members (which says A LOT!)

I loved how he backflipped on so many things. It is a clear indicator of his character. Anything for a vote...

Well...uh...I hope not "anything"

So, what is Bill Clinton doing these days? Anyone?

But is simply not wanting Bush, Blair or Howard as President/Prime Minister a good reason to elect someone who has no platform and no policies other than not being their predecessor?

Excellent point there Tygaland. Many people I have spoken to mention "the lesser of two evils" which is quite unfortunate really. Even some who say do not like John Howard have explained to me that they will vote for him anyway because they hate Latham...

Sure that is good news in my opinion, but I would prefer people saying "I am voting for Howard because he does a great job". Maybe that will happen at the next election. Who knows.

No. It won't. The guy's an incompetent fool.
He latches himself onto the undercarriage of someone he views as
higher (even if it's really lower ).

Anyone higher-up on the conservative food chain he latches himself to.
First it was the royals, refusing to give Australia a decent alternative
in the way of making it into a republic. He basically implied that "If you want a republic, it's going to be with a leader like me(John Howard) at its head", and his own royal "buddies" didn't give him any heed (which was certainly the only reason he was doing it).
Then it's "attach yourself to Bush's a$$ with your lips" time.
Another war that's none of Australia's business.
And with more "spin" put on it.
http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/04/06/far04019.html

Don't these people learn from history?
If it wasn't for a prime-ministerial change just in time in Australia, my father would have had to have fought in Vietnam. And John Howard refuses to learn from history, just like Tony Blair does, and just like George Bush does.

He wants to follow Bush's examples for economy/attach himself to Bush's ideas for economy, even though America's economy is now RUINED under him. He betrays his own soldiers with legislation (their pay decreased, their children's education budget being slashed)
http://www.wage-slave.org/scorecard6.html
The above link covers a lot that happened in 2003. I think that the website owner stopped counting after 2004 - as if it should be "self apparent" why Bush shouldn't get in again.

With that in mind, the idea of lesser of two evils style of voting
is the only way to go.

There's a quote I read somewhere: "Normally I'm apathetic about voting, but this time around, even if CARROT TOP were the opposition I'd swim across a lake of molten vomit just to vote for him".

As an end, this game : www.emogame.com/bushgame.html
is both educational and amusing (and also a tad vulgar in places, so, like,
don't let yer children watch).

- Tsorfinn

While I agree Howard has it wrong on his privatise everything economic idealism...he does a good job at managing the nation's affairs and nobody can deny more people are employed - a very good thing.

However, as for siding with Bush, Howard is doing the smart thing. Australia cannot stand alone like Labor seems to believe and I feel that many Australians also realise this. That is why Labor has been getting such a poor reception on their foreign affairs policies.

To all Patriotic Americans, Watch the following Movie!!!

http://www.bushin30seconds.org/150/view.html?ad_id=1586

Can you please not spam. Thanks.

CAPS LOCK IS FUN.

For the mentally challenged perhaps...oops that was rather PC and un-PC of me at the same time.
Save your spam for another thread Mr.Moderator.

It was a subtle comment on the title of the thread... obviously too subtle for some.

I am well aware of what you were alluding to. I was just letting you know that it was irrelevant to the topic we are discussing and hence its posting on this thread was in fact not necessary.

there are quite a few opposition parties from Bliar and Howard- RESPECT, UKIP BNP :evil: .

They offer- No war, more socialism, better services etc. (RESPECT)
Totally out of the EU (UKIP)
A country for whites (BNP)
very very summerised

Personally, I believe that Howard is way past his prime and that he won't be able to do fabulously well. The prior Tory leaders have been strong, or at least, stronger than Howard. It seems that the Tories cannot offer concrete opposition to Balir but can always resortds to personal attacks, so people no longer have faith in them. It's alos worth mentioning that they supported the war.
The whole impression Howard gives to the public is quite a weak one. Luckily for him, the people most likely to be affacted by these impressions are amoung the non voting majority.


this all comes to you from someone who is too young to vote, so it may be wrong.

Just because you cannot vote yet doesn't mean you are necessarily wrong. There are many many people who can vote that are very wrong on a wide range of issues.

No. It won't. The guy's an incompetent fool.
He latches himself onto the undercarriage of someone he views as
higher (even if it's really lower ).

Anyone higher-up on the conservative food chain he latches himself to.
First it was the royals, refusing to give Australia a decent alternative
in the way of making it into a republic. He basically implied that "If you want a republic, it's going to be with a leader like me(John Howard) at its head", and his own royal "buddies" didn't give him any heed (which was certainly the only reason he was doing it).

The Republican movement suggested the model for the Republic. The problem was the Republican Committee was run by wealthy corporate and media personalities who were hoping they would be President. Thats why it failed. Secondly, the current monarchist system works well and has always done so, so why change what isn't broken?


Then it's "attach yourself to Bush's a$$ with your lips" time.
Another war that's none of Australia's business.
And with more "spin" put on it.
http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/04/06/far04019.html

Don't these people learn from history?
If it wasn't for a prime-ministerial change just in time in Australia, my father would have had to have fought in Vietnam. And John Howard refuses to learn from history, just like Tony Blair does, and just like George Bush does.

It has nothing to do with attaching lips to Bush's arse. It is a matter of national and world security. Leaving Saddam to run his regime killing thousands of his own countrymen is ok to you? None of our business? What the coalition have achieved in Iraq is a positive for the world in so far as a tyrant is no longer in power. Democracy and freedom will be brought to Iraq and it has already resulted in Gaddafi backing down and ending his nuclear program.
As for learning about history. What did appeasing Hitler achieve? If we ignore him maybe he'll go away or at least leave us alone..worked a treat. I was also unaware Howard was going to re-introduce conscription. My father and uncle were conscripted to Vietnam and as such I would oppose conscription, but as Howard is not reintroducing it this argument is irrelevant.

there are quite a few opposition parties from Bliar and Howard- RESPECT, UKIP BNP :evil: .

They offer- No war, more socialism, better services etc. (RESPECT)
Totally out of the EU (UKIP)
A country for whites (BNP)
very very summerised

Personally, I believe that Howard is way past his prime and that he won't be able to do fabulously well. The prior Tory leaders have been strong, or at least, stronger than Howard. It seems that the Tories cannot offer concrete opposition to Balir but can always resortds to personal attacks, so people no longer have faith in them. It's alos worth mentioning that they supported the war.
The whole impression Howard gives to the public is quite a weak one. Luckily for him, the people most likely to be affacted by these impressions are amoung the non voting majority.


this all comes to you from someone who is too young to vote, so it may be wrong.

When I am referring to Howard I am referring to the current Australian Prime Minister, John Howard.

Just because you cannot vote yet doesn't mean you are necessarily wrong. There are many many people who can vote that are very wrong on a wide range of issues.


yah but see, I'd pay more attention if I were able to vote- the info might be out of date or whatever. All this info comes thru the filter of my head phones.

In oz, latham hasn't a chance of doing better then howard on the economy. Latham, the Labor leader, has gained popularity on his anti-war policies. effectively he has said that he will withdraw all combat troops from the middle east, the fine print is that he will remove about 100 troops (those that protect australian diplomats) and leave around 700 troops (those that are there for the war on terrorism, not iraq.)

unfortunately australians, like most other old democracies, do not look deaper into what a politician says. it seems that we will throw our economic health down the drain on a misplaced principle.

personally i'm of the view that if you start something you are obliged to finish it...

the other parties in oz are too small to even bother with, greens, democrats and their ilk.

there are quite a few opposition parties from Bliar and Howard- RESPECT, UKIP BNP :evil: .

They offer- No war, more socialism, better services etc. (RESPECT)
Totally out of the EU (UKIP)
A country for whites (BNP)
very very summerised

Personally, I believe that Howard is way past his prime and that he won't be able to do fabulously well. The prior Tory leaders have been strong, or at least, stronger than Howard. It seems that the Tories cannot offer concrete opposition to Balir but can always resortds to personal attacks, so people no longer have faith in them. It's alos worth mentioning that they supported the war.
The whole impression Howard gives to the public is quite a weak one. Luckily for him, the people most likely to be affacted by these impressions are amoung the non voting majority.


this all comes to you from someone who is too young to vote, so it may be wrong.

When I am referring to Howard I am referring to the current Australian Prime Minister, John Howard.


Ooops.

My Howards are Michael Howard "Oppostion" lieader in UK.

In oz, latham hasn't a chance of doing better then howard on the economy. Latham, the Labor leader, has gained popularity on his anti-war policies. effectively he has said that he will withdraw all combat troops from the middle east, the fine print is that he will remove about 100 troops (those that protect australian diplomats) and leave around 700 troops (those that are there for the war on terrorism, not iraq.)

unfortunately australians, like most other old democracies, do not look deaper into what a politician says. it seems that we will throw our economic health down the drain on a misplaced principle.

personally i'm of the view that if you start something you are obliged to finish it...

the other parties in oz are too small to even bother with, greens, democrats and their ilk.

Yes, Carmen Lawrence was asked if all troops would be home by Christmas under Latham and she said they probably would but she was not sure if some would remain to protect consular staff etc.
I think the reality that the opposition in the UK and the US are against withdrawing from Iraq has sent a cold reality check to Mr.Latham. Seems he may have opened his mouth too soon and is now in the situation where he loses face if he dilutes or backflips on his promise to withdraw all troops by Christmas. Hopefully he will never be called to task on this absurd promise and Howard is re-elected.

I want a Voltron!

Ooops.

My Howards are Michael Howard "Oppostion" lieader in UK.

Thats what I thought! Maybe we should start calling them by their full name to avoid confusion! :D

Michael Howard - Offers a less PC, more fiscally efficient alternative to the wasteful, smug Tony Blair.

What's John Howard done in his three terms
(1) Tax reform = Current system more complicated than previous one! Incidentally Australia and US have most complex tax systems in the world.
(2) Privatisation = Trying to offload government responsibilities to the corporate/market sector by stealth. Even the universities are required to get their raise $$$ since education spending got slashed early.
(3) Helping it's buddies = Big corporations increase market share while small business suffers under the GST regime. Big supermarket chains are taking over areas where small business one thrived for example.
(4) USFTA - The Free Trade Agreement which will benefit the US more than Australia ... not ratified yet
(5) The three wars ... East Timor (UN sanctioned), Afghanistan (UN sanctioned) and Iraq (ILLEGAL) as well as meddling in the Pacific (UN sanctioned)
(6) Stuffed up Australia-Asian relations - people think Australian are like Americans now.