NationStates Jolt Archive

Should books by those who have had sexual relations with children that were below the current ages of adult consent be suppressed by the government?





Note:
paedophile = UK spelling
pedophile = US spelling

No.

Unless they advocate having sex with children, then you may want to keep them out of schools.

No. The government has no business supressing any books. Schools may be a different matter, but still no.

Should books by those who have had sexual relations with children that were below the current ages of adult consent be suppressed by the government?





Note:
paedophile = UK spelling
pedophile = US spellingBooks that are simply by people who have committed said acts? No, of course not.

At what age would it become safe to teach them?

At what age would it become safe to teach them?

Depends on the content of the book, as with books by any authors.

At what age would it become safe to teach them?

Depends on the content of the book, as with books by any authors.

Say a book advocating sexual relations between middle-aged men and young boys.

No one said you had to teach them. But they should at least be available.

At what age would it become safe to teach them?

Depends on the content of the book, as with books by any authors.

Say a book advocating sexual relations between middle-aged men and young boys.

I don't think schools should teach that at all...

At what age would it become safe to teach them?

Depends on the content of the book, as with books by any authors.

Say a book advocating sexual relations between middle-aged men and young boys.

I don't think schools should teach that at all...

Universities?

No. If a textbook is written by someone who they later find out was a pædophile, then what are they going to do.

-----------------------------------------
"Beside him is a beautiful androgyne called SWITCH, aiming a large gun at Neo."--Script of The Matrix (I love The Matrix, but that is still funny.)
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

No. If a textbook is written by someone who they later find out was a pædophile, then what are they going to do.

And if it was known beforehand?

And if it was known beforehand?

No. Just being written by a pædophile isn't enough. It would have to advocate pædophilia. Actually, I don't believe the government should suppress anything. It shouldn't be there in the first place.

-----------------------------------------
"Beside him is a beautiful androgyne called SWITCH, aiming a large gun at Neo."--Script of The Matrix (I love The Matrix, but that is still funny.)
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

At what age would it become safe to teach them?

Depends on the content of the book, as with books by any authors.

Say a book advocating sexual relations between middle-aged men and young boys.

I don't think schools should teach that at all...

Universities?

They(and even high schools) could have it available, I don't see why you would need to teach it however...

i don't think the government should ban books based on author.
it would be a blatant violation of the constitution- freedom of press and freedom of speech anyone?

while i don't like pedophiles (kind of obvious), the government has no right to ban books.

They(and even high schools) could have it available, I don't see why you would need to teach it however...

So, although Plato needn't be taught, his works still should be available?

They(and even high schools) could have it available, I don't see why you would need to teach it however...

So, although Plato needn't be taught, his works still should be available?

As far as I know Plato doesn't talk about sex with young boys.

They(and even high schools) could have it available, I don't see why you would need to teach it however...

So, although Plato needn't be taught, his works still should be available?

As far as I know Plato doesn't talk about sex with young boys.

Check your Symposium (http://www.gutenberg.net/etext99/sympo10.txt).

NAMBLA (The North American Man-Boy Love Association) they wrote and published a book called "The Rape and Escape Manual" they were really hassled over it because it told men how to kidnap and rape little boys, it then told them how to cover up the evidence (apparently one of the methods mentioned talked about how to kill and get away with it). A pedophile used the instructions in the book to kidnap, rape, and murder a young boy. The question was should NAMBLA be criminally liable?

I would have to say yes and cite the example of where Paladin Press was found guilty of aiding and abetting when a man followed their book "Hitman" to perform a contract killing where he murdered 3 people. He got caught not because the book was bad, but he made 1 mistake, he didn't follow the book exactly, it said "Don't check into a motel if they require ID, it will place you near the scene." He didn't listen to it because he simply went with the first motel he found. Placed him near the scene, police later found the book in his house, and then they knew what was going on. Busted.

I thoght it was he did not scrach awar the ID number on the gun

Who voted 'yes'?

I thoght it was he did not scrach awar the ID number on the gun


Nope, he did remove the serial number, he did it before the job, he also took the gun apart into 1/2 dozen pieces and tossed them out the window as he drove on the highway, he used shoes 2 sizes to large and he put the largest pieces of the gun in them and tossed them out the window.

Who voted 'yes'?


Right here.

Who voted 'yes'?


Right here.

So Plato should be suppressed along with most ancient greek literature?

Who voted 'yes'?


Right here.

So Plato should be suppressed along with most ancient greek literature?

We're talking about modern pedophiles, books advocating sex with children and "how-to" manuals such as NAMBLA publishes. Get off the "All ancient greekes were pedophiles" kick.

Should books by those who have had sexual relations with children that were below the current ages of adult consent be suppressed by the government?





Note:
paedophile = UK spelling
pedophile = US spelling

I initially took your survey to mean all books. Consider my vote reversed. Instead, my response is based on the premise that you are discussing a book on the subject of pedophilia. A book on any other subject is unassailable.

A good question to which I must say that after mulling it over I think context issues on the material itself are irrelevent.

In the context of university teaching an exposition drawing from clinical observation and experience would undoubtedly provide greater insight -obviating the need for salacious materials. It does not require diagrammatic materials such as a coffee table pictorial or essays that only serve prurient interests. Anyone sufficiently dense that they require such should be placed in remedial courses instead.

SHL

We're talking about modern pedophiles, books advocating sex with children and "how-to" manuals such as NAMBLA publishes.

That was not what the question to which you responded "yes" asked, but anyhow - should all how-to-manuals which describe how to carry out criminal acts or advocate such acts be suppressed, in your opinion?

We're talking about modern pedophiles, books advocating sex with children and "how-to" manuals such as NAMBLA publishes.

That was not what the question to which you responded "yes" asked.

I don't think the Ancient Greeks were the "Pedophiles en masse" that you seem attempting to paint them as.

I don't think the Ancient Greeks were the "Pedophiles en masse" that you seem attempting to paint them as.


Well, it was commonly accepted for mature men to take boys as lovers, and that is well documented by the Ancient Greeks themselves.


***
Note: I submitted my previous message before I had finished revising it - see the edit to it. Mea culpa.

We're talking about modern pedophiles, books advocating sex with children and "how-to" manuals such as NAMBLA publishes.

That was not what the question to which you responded "yes" asked, but anyhow - should all how-to-manuals which describe how to carry out criminal acts or advocate such acts be suppressed, in your opinion?

Some "How-To" Manuals have legitimate purposes. Bomb-making manuals help firefighters, engineers, police and such in the event of a disaster. A book that tells how to seduce little boys helps nobody except perverts.

I don't think the Ancient Greeks were the "Pedophiles en masse" that you seem attempting to paint them as.


Well, it was commonly accepted for mature men to take boys as lovers, and that is well documented by the Ancient Greeks themselves.


***
Note: I submitted my previous message before I had finished revising it - see the edit to it. Mea culpa.

I know it was commonly accepted but that doesn't mean it was universally practiced.

I know it was commonly accepted but that doesn't mean it was universally practiced.

Well, we're splitting hairs here - I used 'most' and to counter that you claim it wasn't 'universal': the two are not mutually exclusive.


A book that tells how to seduce little boys helps nobody except perverts.

Is a book in praise of seducing boy without going into the hows acceptable?

We're talking about modern pedophiles, books advocating sex with children and "how-to" manuals such as NAMBLA publishes.

That was not what the question to which you responded "yes" asked, but anyhow - should all how-to-manuals which describe how to carry out criminal acts or advocate such acts be suppressed, in your opinion?

Some "How-To" Manuals have legitimate purposes. Bomb-making manuals help firefighters, engineers, police and such in the event of a disaster. A book that tells how to seduce little boys helps nobody except perverts.

It should tell parents, police, and the public what to look out for.

Anyways, the question was, "Should books by pedophiles be suppressed?" Such books wouldn't have to have anything to do with pedophilia. It could be a book about birds, lawn gnomes, or multi-variable vector calculus.

We're talking about modern pedophiles, books advocating sex with children and "how-to" manuals such as NAMBLA publishes.

That was not what the question to which you responded "yes" asked, but anyhow - should all how-to-manuals which describe how to carry out criminal acts or advocate such acts be suppressed, in your opinion?

Some "How-To" Manuals have legitimate purposes. Bomb-making manuals help firefighters, engineers, police and such in the event of a disaster. A book that tells how to seduce little boys helps nobody except perverts.

My take on the 'suppression' was tightly controlled rather than the extreme form of erradicated. The materials you mention are not comparable as you note - they have legitimate application. I refer to the point I made above.

In this example, the tactics used by a miscreant pedophile have legitimate law enforcement training and 'training the trainer' applications. In what context they are authored and presented is very much the point. If it is in the promotion of public safety then fine. If for promoting criminal behavior then not fine. I am aware that in the mind of the pedophile either could serve as fodder for fantasy - that cannot be helped.

Despite what some may say, intent matters.

SHL

If for promoting criminal behavior then not fine.

Should this standard be applied to other criminal behaviour?

If for promoting criminal behavior then not fine.

Should this standard be applied to other criminal behaviour?

Suppression being what? If we are saying as a matter of law limited to legitimate applications, then yes.

SHL

If for promoting criminal behavior then not fine.

Should this standard be applied to other criminal behaviour?

Suppression being what? If we are saying as a matter of law limited to legitimate applications, then yes.

SHL

Sorry, my question was unclear - should other books which promote criminal behaviour also be suppressed?

If for promoting criminal behavior then not fine.

Should this standard be applied to other criminal behaviour?

Suppression being what? If we are saying as a matter of law limited to legitimate applications, then yes.

SHL

Sorry, my question was unclear - should other books which promote criminal behaviour also be suppressed?

Ibelieve I understood you, perhaps my terse answer missed the mark. I was defining my position as being a definition of what I mean by suppression and then it's application as a legal tool to restrain those who would disseminate such information to aid and abet criminal behavior.

For example it would be a legitimate for a locksmith to possess certain data so as to open a safe should the combination be lost. But if I publish such information in my "How To Crack A Safe and Retire To The Sunny Caribbean" and generally disseminate it then I should be able to be held criminally liable for making that information available.

It goes to the heart of intent and the rights of society as a whole vs. the right of individuals.

SHL

i am a strong advocate of free speech, the government has no business supressing such a book
however
no company should publish it, out of their own sense of decency
my tax money should not buy a copy of it to be in the library
my public schools shouldnt have any such book taught. and that would make the symposium problematical but our schools are so bad that i cant imagine a public school teaching greek lit. (colleges are different because classes are voluntary and the students are mostly adults)

such books should be read closely by the authorities to see if the author may have committed crimes that he can be sent to prison for

and of course no photos of underaged children allowed.

the ancient greeks practiced a form of homosexuality that involved older men and what were considered at that time to be young men. no 5 year olds involved. im not sure of the ages but it would probably be illegal if practiced in the US today. this form of sexuality did not involve penetration. it was not universally practiced as evidence by alcibiades whining that socrates wouldnt have sex with him or any young man.