NationStates Jolt Archive

I can look at all the terrible things he's done. Yes, he has done terrible things.
I can look at all the great things he's done. Yes, he has done great things.
I can look at him as the 40th President of the United States.
I can look at him as the former Governor of my state of California.

And I still have my respect for him dammit.


Perhaps it is you who is missing the point, if I can look at the facts and accept them and still respect the dead man. While you look at the facts and spit on his face and legacy.

I think it is obvious who I am directing my words to.

You sicken me General. A man dies and you act smug and start bashing him now. You say you talked ill of him before he died. That's bull...complete and utter bull...the majority of you liars and hypocrites.


I'm positive this will be responded with continued denial and flames toward the President. I'm positive many excuses will be made here within 30...perhaps 60 minutes.

Go ahead. Justify kicking a dead man who suffered Alzheimers and died of pneumonia.

I can look at all the terrible things he's done. Yes, he has done terrible things.
I can look at all the great things he's done. Yes, he has done great things.
I can look at him as the 40th President of the United States.
I can look at him as the former Governor of my state of California.

And I still have my respect for him dammit.


Perhaps it is you who is missing the point, if I can look at the facts and accept them and still respect the dead man. While you look at the facts and spit on his face and legacy.

I think it is obvious who I am directing my words to.


You sicken me General. A man dies and you act smug and start bashing him now. You say you talked ill of him before he died. That's bull...complete and utter bull...the majority of you liars and hypocrites.


I'm positive this will be responded with continued denial and flames toward the President. I'm positive many excuses will be made here within 30...perhaps 60 minutes.

Go ahead. Justify kicking a dead man who suffered Alzheimers and died of pneumonia.

Personally, I have nothing against him, although most of his vews and policies I did not agree with. I feel that knocking a man when he;s down is in rather bad taste.

The dead do not automatically deserve my respect, just because they are dead. I judge him as though he were living. I had a low opinion of him before, now that he is dead and everyone is making such a big fuss on TV, I figured I might as well express it.

So there you have it. No, he does not have my respect. And he never will.

Ronny Rayguns ... Now we can trust anything this "dead president" has to say. Experience has shown that anything he said while he was alive was a lie ... now, perhaps we can trust him (dead men tell no tales?). :tantrum:

Prime Minister Mesto auf Mezzenrach

The dead do not automatically deserve my respect, just because they are dead. I judge him as though he were living. I had a low opinion of him before, now that he is dead and everyone is making such a big fuss on TV, I figured I might as well express it.

So there you have it. No, he does not have my respect. And he never will.
uh-huh....so can you point me to a thread in which you specifically voiced your opinion of Raegan before his death? Or can we just "pretend" this is a fact of yours?

You may be telling the truth, but who can you trust anymore? Back it up please.

The dead do not automatically deserve my respect, just because they are dead. I judge him as though he were living. I had a low opinion of him before, now that he is dead and everyone is making such a big fuss on TV, I figured I might as well express it.

So there you have it. No, he does not have my respect. And he never will.
uh-huh....so can you point me to a thread in which you specifically voiced your opinion of Raegan before his death? Or can we just "pretend" this is a fact of yours?

You may be telling the truth, but who can you trust anymore? Back it up please.
Read it again.

The dead do not automatically deserve my respect, just because they are dead. I judge him as though he were living. I had a low opinion of him before, now that he is dead and everyone is making such a big fuss on TV, I figured I might as well express it.

So there you have it. No, he does not have my respect. And he never will.

Wise my friend.

A man is his life, not his death.

The dead do not automatically deserve my respect, just because they are dead. I judge him as though he were living. I had a low opinion of him before, now that he is dead and everyone is making such a big fuss on TV, I figured I might as well express it.

So there you have it. No, he does not have my respect. And he never will.
uh-huh....so can you point me to a thread in which you specifically voiced your opinion of Raegan before his death? Or can we just "pretend" this is a fact of yours?

You may be telling the truth, but who can you trust anymore? Back it up please.
Read it again.
so you ignored him, never acted as if he made a real difference in the world. It's only when you thought his family were crying too much for the dead man that you actually voiced your opinion.

so you ignored him, never acted as if he made a real difference in the world. It's only when you thought his family were crying too much for the dead man that you actually voiced your opinion.
Actually, I objected to his portrayal in the media. I always thought he was a bit of a mediocrity, and did not respect him, especially given his administration's human rights record in overseas involvement, abysmal energy policy, etc, and then he dies and everyone starts elevating him to sainthood, so it was reality check time. I figured, seeing as everyone is suddenly spouting hyperbole about how he saved the world, now might be the time to air my differences. If you think that's dancing on his grave, so be it. That's your perception.

so you ignored him, never acted as if he made a real difference in the world. It's only when you thought his family were crying too much for the dead man that you actually voiced your opinion.
Actually, I objected to his portrayal in the media. I always thought he was a bit of a mediocrity, and did not respect him, especially given his administration's human rights record in overseas involvement, abysmal energy policy, etc, and then he dies and everyone starts elevating him to sainthood, so it was reality check time. I figured, seeing as everyone is suddenly spouting hyperbole about how he saved the world, now might be the time to air my differences. If you think that's dancing on his grave, so be it. That's your perception.
so you agree that it is pretty much "dancing on his grave"

so you agree that it is pretty much "dancing on his grave"
No. But do you agree? Now that is a question.

so you agree that it is pretty much "dancing on his grave"
No. But do you agree? Now that is a question.
Yes, well done. That IS a question!

*pats TG's head*

Now then....

This has long since stopped being a debate and you are both doing yourselves a disservice.

How likely are you to sway the other party to your point of view by continued rhetoric that has descended into condescension?

Agree to differ. And walk away.

Reagan was the best president ever. He beat the evil empire, raised the economy, didnt care what the UN or the crazy other countries thought about America, and saved the military from what Carter did to gut it. If it were not for Reagan I can only look and wonder what America would be like today.

Many of you are missing the point of Reagan

So, what was the point of Reagan?

If it were not for Reagan I can only look and wonder what America would be like today.
Not anywhere near as dependent on foreign oil? Hence safer from external supply interruptions and terrorism? Yes, we can wonder.

I agree! This is merely stupid and rather juvenile and elementary insulting. Both of you are disgracing not only the decesased but also your intelligence...

OK, this is the way it is Colodia. Since he hadn't been president for a while, we had forgotten about Reagan, we were fighting over more recent news, such as the existence of WMDs, or gay marriages. Now that he's dead, we remembered him. Some of us didn't like those memories. Others felt he was so great that they were obligated to share their opinions with everyone. Soon, people would counter those views. Then, both sides of the argument became angered. We began fighting between each other, forgetting that he was dead, simply debating his politics. Some people would say things like "I'm glad he's dead" just to piss people off. Now, personally, I'm tired of all this. The protecting and the attacking of Reagan. I'm tired of turning on the TV to see his funeral on 15 channels. I'm tired of having an 8 page section of the Washington Post dedicated to his memory. This whole thing has been drawn out too long. It doesn't matter what Reagan did. We can't make him change anything. We should focus ourselves on more important topics, not wasting our time copntemplating the past. So Colodia, TG, and everyone else who's been debating Reagan, SHUT UP. :x I don't care if we should honor him. I don't care if he was the worst president ever. We should focus on the here and now, not dwelling on the past.

[HE] didnt care what the UN or the crazy other countries thought about America, If it were not for Reagan I can only look and wonder what America would be like today.

It may have had two towers standing tall in New York, and many hundreds of U.S soldiers alive today. Damn, it is better that Reegan was resident.

We should focus on the here and now, not dwelling on the past.

Does this include not learning anything from history?

Listen, I was alive and an adult when Iran/Contra went down.. I remember Reagan's bad economic policies.. I remember the bloodshed in Central America and the unjust things the Reagan administration did. He was a good talker... and he seemed like a nice enough person, but he got it wrong, his policies were horrible.

I said it while he was in office and I'm saying it now.. however, this past week I've seen more revisionist history being written then I care to express. Yes, he's dead.. but he was as one poster put it, his life, not his death.

That was really well said Steph.. the first slightly original thing in a while

but

I'm getting entirely too sick of these Reagan threads.
Can't we just stop making them? Everything that has been said or needs to be has been said, multiple times.
It's just getting rediculous.

hmm

We should focus on the here and now, not dwelling on the past.

Does this include not learning anything from history?
No, I just meant stop obsessing on a dead guy. Theres a difference from obsessing on something in the past, and learning from it. We've been obsessing.

That was really well said Steph.. the first slightly original thing in a while

but

I'm getting entirely too sick of these Reagan threads.
Can't we just stop making them? Everything that has been said or needs to be has been said, multiple times.
It's just getting rediculous.

hmm
Yeah, we really got to stop with all these threads. In fact, we should stop responding, so they don't stay up for a few days.

Listen, I was alive and an adult when Iran/Contra went down.. I remember Reagan's bad economic policies.. I remember the bloodshed in Central America and the unjust things the Reagan administration did. He was a good talker... and he seemed like a nice enough person, but he got it wrong, his policies were horrible.

I said it while he was in office and I'm saying it now.. however, this past week I've seen more revisionist history being written then I care to express. Yes, he's dead.. but he was as one poster put it, his life, not his death.

I remember inflation went from 21% (Carter) to 3.5% (Reagan) and I remember Carter's Unemployment of 17% to Reagan's 7.2%.

I remember Nicaragua under Sandinista's rule. Now they are free.

I remember inflation went from 21% (Carter) to 3.5% (Reagan) and I remember Carter's Unemployment of 17% to Reagan's 7.2%.

I remember Nicaragua under Sandinista's rule. Now they are free.
Not Carter's doing, there was a little bit of trouble in Iran which wrecked the world economy for a few years. Heh, you should read about what was going on the UK during the Winter of Discontent. Reagan had no real role in the recovery, that was the world economy's doing.

And that last bit is just hilarious. A bit like saying that Hitler freed the East European Jews from Stalinism.

I remember inflation went from 21% (Carter) to 3.5% (Reagan) and I remember Carter's Unemployment of 17% to Reagan's 7.2%.

I remember Nicaragua under Sandinista's rule. Now they are free.
Not Carter's doing, there was a little bit of trouble in Iran which wrecked the world economy for a few years. Heh, you should read about what was going on the UK during the Winter of Discontent. Reagan had no real role in the recovery, that was the world economy's doing.

And that last bit is just hilarious. A bit like saying that Hitler freed the East European Jews from Stalinism.
Primarilly the "maliase" was basically an energy question. Lower taxes helped. Reagan expanded oil exploration and oil recovery technologies (such as off shore drilling).

Listen, I was alive and an adult when Iran/Contra went down.. I remember Reagan's bad economic policies.. I remember the bloodshed in Central America and the unjust things the Reagan administration did. He was a good talker... and he seemed like a nice enough person, but he got it wrong, his policies were horrible.

I said it while he was in office and I'm saying it now.. however, this past week I've seen more revisionist history being written then I care to express. Yes, he's dead.. but he was as one poster put it, his life, not his death.

I remember inflation went from 21% (Carter) to 3.5% (Reagan) and I remember Carter's Unemployment of 17% to Reagan's 7.2%.

I remember Nicaragua under Sandinista's rule. Now they are free.
Unemployment under Carter averaged from a low of 5.6% to a high of 7.8%

Unemployment under Reagan averaged from a low of 5.3% to a high of 10.8%

Reagan clearly had 28 months of unemployment higher than Carter's highest of 7.8%, 10 of which were over 10%.

http://www.forecasts.org/data/data/UNRATE.htm

I remember inflation went from 21% (Carter) to 3.5% (Reagan) and I remember Carter's Unemployment of 17% to Reagan's 7.2%.

I remember Nicaragua under Sandinista's rule. Now they are free.
Not Carter's doing, there was a little bit of trouble in Iran which wrecked the world economy for a few years. Heh, you should read about what was going on the UK during the Winter of Discontent. Reagan had no real role in the recovery, that was the world economy's doing.

And that last bit is just hilarious. A bit like saying that Hitler freed the East European Jews from Stalinism.
Primarilly the "maliase" was basically an energy question. Lower taxes helped. Reagan expanded oil exploration and oil recovery technologies (such as off shore drilling).but oil and devastating the environment with drilling has proven to be very costly and reliance on oil has also led us into wars in the mideast too--its time for us to develop environment friendly and cheaper sources of energy and hopefully get to the level of banning oil totally--cars can be fitted to run on vegetable oil and we can also use hemp as a source of energy too

I remember inflation went from 21% (Carter) to 3.5% (Reagan) and I remember Carter's Unemployment of 17% to Reagan's 7.2%.

I remember Nicaragua under Sandinista's rule. Now they are free.
Not Carter's doing, there was a little bit of trouble in Iran which wrecked the world economy for a few years. Heh, you should read about what was going on the UK during the Winter of Discontent. Reagan had no real role in the recovery, that was the world economy's doing.

And that last bit is just hilarious. A bit like saying that Hitler freed the East European Jews from Stalinism.
Primarilly the "maliase" was basically an energy question. Lower taxes helped. Reagan expanded oil exploration and oil recovery technologies (such as off shore drilling).but oil and devastating the environment with drilling has proven to be very costly and reliance on oil has also led us into wars in the mideast too--its time for us to develop environment friendly and cheaper sources of energy and hopefully get to the level of banning oil totally--cars can be fitted to run on vegetable oil and we can also use hemp as a source of energy too
Me I like oil and will continue to use it.

But, Are you all talk? What are you doing about it? What alternate everygy sources are you using?

I remember inflation went from 21% (Carter) to 3.5% (Reagan) and I remember Carter's Unemployment of 17% to Reagan's 7.2%.

I remember Nicaragua under Sandinista's rule. Now they are free.
Not Carter's doing, there was a little bit of trouble in Iran which wrecked the world economy for a few years. Heh, you should read about what was going on the UK during the Winter of Discontent. Reagan had no real role in the recovery, that was the world economy's doing.

And that last bit is just hilarious. A bit like saying that Hitler freed the East European Jews from Stalinism.
Primarilly the "maliase" was basically an energy question. Lower taxes helped. Reagan expanded oil exploration and oil recovery technologies (such as off shore drilling).but oil and devastating the environment with drilling has proven to be very costly and reliance on oil has also led us into wars in the mideast too--its time for us to develop environment friendly and cheaper sources of energy and hopefully get to the level of banning oil totally--cars can be fitted to run on vegetable oil and we can also use hemp as a source of energy too
Me I like oil and will continue to use it.

But, Are you all talk? What are you doing about it? What alternate everygy sources are you using?why Im using hemp rite now AND solar power

I remember inflation went from 21% (Carter) to 3.5% (Reagan) and I remember Carter's Unemployment of 17% to Reagan's 7.2%.

I remember Nicaragua under Sandinista's rule. Now they are free.
Not Carter's doing, there was a little bit of trouble in Iran which wrecked the world economy for a few years. Heh, you should read about what was going on the UK during the Winter of Discontent. Reagan had no real role in the recovery, that was the world economy's doing.

And that last bit is just hilarious. A bit like saying that Hitler freed the East European Jews from Stalinism.
Primarilly the "maliase" was basically an energy question. Lower taxes helped. Reagan expanded oil exploration and oil recovery technologies (such as off shore drilling).but oil and devastating the environment with drilling has proven to be very costly and reliance on oil has also led us into wars in the mideast too--its time for us to develop environment friendly and cheaper sources of energy and hopefully get to the level of banning oil totally--cars can be fitted to run on vegetable oil and we can also use hemp as a source of energy too
Me I like oil and will continue to use it.

But, Are you all talk? What are you doing about it? What alternate everygy sources are you using?why Im using hemp rite now AND solar power

Fair nuff. Nice to see you support what you preach.

TRA, you have solar power? How much does it cost?

Go ahead. Justify kicking a dead man who suffered Alzheimers and died of pneumonia.

This is a reference I've heard often, but have never been quite sure of. Whenever I talk about Reagan, I don't usually attack him (my father worked with him and liked him well enough, and given how good a judge of character my father was, this was good enough for me), but rather his politics. And such a discussion shouldn't really depend on whether he can remember them or talk about them, because there are plenty of others who can.

Let me put it this way: if Clinton came down with a terminal case of herpes, would it therefore be wrong to point out how badly he screwed up in Rwanda?

I am down with all alternate energy technologies except one. Solar water heating, because it is cost effective is some areas.

http://www.eere.energy.gov/consumerinfo/energy_savers/virtualhome/508/solar_water_heater.html

I'm a stupid loser who sucks up to dead politicians and believe that all dead people are automatically respectable. Maybe I should kill myself to demonstrate this fact

Colodia, you sicken me

TRA, you have solar power? How much does it cost?it doesnt cost a thing--I was laying on my deck by the pool

I'm a stupid loser who sucks up to dead politicians and believe that all dead people are automatically respectable. Maybe I should kill myself to demonstrate this fact

Colodia, you sicken me

Let me draw something to your attention:

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=87887&start=0

TRA, you have solar power? How much does it cost?it doesnt cost a thing--I was laying on my deck by the pool

thats not really solar power as you aren't powering anything really... do you still use electricity/oil and whatnot for heating and whatnot?

TRA, you have solar power? How much does it cost?it doesnt cost a thing--I was laying on my deck by the pool

thats not really solar power as you aren't powering anything really... do you still use electricity/oil and whatnot for heating and whatnot?

Seems like someone is a hypocrite that does not support his view on alternate energy.

TRA, you have solar power? How much does it cost?it doesnt cost a thing--I was laying on my deck by the pool

thats not really solar power as you aren't powering anything really... do you still use electricity/oil and whatnot for heating and whatnot?well Im getting a power tan--and I also have a solar powered radio and calculator

TRA, you have solar power? How much does it cost?it doesnt cost a thing--I was laying on my deck by the pool
thats not really solar power as you aren't powering anything really... do you still use electricity/oil and whatnot for heating and whatnot?well Im getting a power tan--and I also have a solar powered radio and calculator
You gotta do better than that. Walk the walk.

TRA, you have solar power? How much does it cost?it doesnt cost a thing--I was laying on my deck by the pool

thats not really solar power as you aren't powering anything really... do you still use electricity/oil and whatnot for heating and whatnot?

Seems like someone is a hypocrite that does not support his view on alternate energy.its Bushs fault for not doing his job and creating incentives

I do agree with you. Though I do not agree with many of his policies, he still was a president and no use bashing him now. Stick to Bush, he is the one who can be re-elected.

Somehow I still respect Reagan. I do not love him or anything, but respect.

TRA, you have solar power? How much does it cost?it doesnt cost a thing--I was laying on my deck by the pool
thats not really solar power as you aren't powering anything really... do you still use electricity/oil and whatnot for heating and whatnot?
Seems like someone is a hypocrite that does not support his view on alternate energy.its Bushs fault for not doing his job and creating incentives
If nobody buys alternate energy products how is that going to help anything? It starts with you. If you don't support alternate energy no one will. The reason why alternate energy is dead is because of people like you.

TRA, you have solar power? How much does it cost?it doesnt cost a thing--I was laying on my deck by the pool
thats not really solar power as you aren't powering anything really... do you still use electricity/oil and whatnot for heating and whatnot?
Seems like someone is a hypocrite that does not support his view on alternate energy.its Bushs fault for not doing his job and creating incentives
If nobody buys alternate energy products how is that going to help anything? It starts with you. If you don't support alternate energy no one will. The reason why alternate energy is dead is because of people like you.no its Bushs fault cause hes a dirty oil man who wont allow any compettiton to the death dealing oil industry

I can look at all the terrible things he's done. Yes, he has done terrible things.
I can look at all the great things he's done. Yes, he has done great things.
I can look at him as the 40th President of the United States.
I can look at him as the former Governor of my state of California.

And I still have my respect for him dammit.


Perhaps it is you who is missing the point, if I can look at the facts and accept them and still respect the dead man. While you look at the facts and spit on his face and legacy.

I think it is obvious who I am directing my words to.

You sicken me General. A man dies and you act smug and start bashing him now. You say you talked ill of him before he died. That's bull...complete and utter bull...the majority of you liars and hypocrites.


I'm positive this will be responded with continued denial and flames toward the President. I'm positive many excuses will be made here within 30...perhaps 60 minutes.

Go ahead. Justify kicking a dead man who suffered Alzheimers and died of pneumonia.

Im just sick of the media coverage. How much can be said about the man that hasnt been said a million times before?

Kick him? Call it whatever you like. I just don't think a week long funeral is appropriate for a dead traitor.

I would not comment as I think he deserved the respect of a burial. For what ever reason, the fact he became President is worthy of respect. How many of you can become President, Prime-Minister, whatever?

I didn't particularly care for the man myself.

He was willing to respond with force if it was needed which some Presidents wanted to talk when negotiating would not work.

He would make a decession and run with it because he thought it was right(Libya bombings).

I will never belive the great communicator stuff as I thought he rarely said things with substance but he did have the great ability to make people think he did.

I was downsized so that might move my thoughts.

I do not belive the air traffic controllers deserved to be banned for life.

I could go on....

Finally, he does not deserve to be on the 10 dollar bill. The argument of Alexander Hamilton was not president is very retarded. Ben Franklin wasn't! If he had to be on money then a logical choice would be Grant. An ineffective President with a VERY corrupt administration. Oh wait he was a Republican :roll:

Oh well what do I know :wink:

I'll try to say this as politely as possible. People who've read my posts know that being polite is not something I do often. You'd be surprised that I filter more than half my posts because they're too cruel, and heavily edit most of the ones I let through.
My opinions on Reagan's achievements (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3160013&highlight=#3160013) have probably made up 5-10% of my posts here, but out of respect, I've refrained from adding anything to posts about him recently.
Not for respect for him. He is dead, and he won't care. I have respect for the living. His wife grieves, and she will care.
It hit me, on the second or third post I forced my hand away from, that she isn't going to read any of this. About five minutes into typing my reply, I recognized that there are many people who saw his presidency as the Second Coming of Christ and are seriously offended if you think otherwise. This man, for reasons I can't guess at while still being polite, is incredibly important to their day to day lives. Facts and logical arguements aren't going to make the least bit of difference to them, but they will be seriously hurt to have their hero mocked in what they see as the darkest of days. Normally I would believe that anyone who gets emotional over text on a screen deserves to be hurt, but I have my limits, and this may pass some of it.

I remember, long ago at the long, long-dead ff3.com, a girl named Leene feigned suicide. The only people who liked her were her other accounts, which continued to post (you were only supposed to have one, and most of us knew she had three, but the facts didn't matter). But, it was someone we had known for years, and a few ignorant folk believed she really was dead, a few permenantly disfigured themselves in mouring (one, Nall, carved her name into his forearm with a kitchen knife). It had a massive emotional effect on most of us. People thought you were calling their life worthless if you mocked someone they were ready to devote their lives to the memory of. You could form bad blood with anyone for the rest of the forums' life by "insulting her memory."
I don't care if you have respect for the dead if you say they don't deserve it, but have some respect for the survivors who care.

I do agree with you. Though I do not agree with many of his policies, he still was a president and no use bashing him now. Stick to Bush, he is the one who can be re-elected.

Somehow I still respect Reagan. I do not love him or anything, but respect.and your "leftwing"? I dont think so...

*breakdances through thread*

*flails glow sticks in a sad manner*

*does a backflip*

Down with the republic! US Empire foeva!

I do agree with you. Though I do not agree with many of his policies, he still was a president and no use bashing him now. Stick to Bush, he is the one who can be re-elected.

Somehow I still respect Reagan. I do not love him or anything, but respect.and your "leftwing"? I dont think so...Oh shut up with you freaking purity tests. You ever stop to think that by being so opposed to anyone who doesn't toe your party line that you're as closed-minded and intolerant as the christian fundamentalists you like to rag on so hard? You're an embarassment, TRA. Get over yourself.

I have a certain amoun of respect for Bush.
Hes the President of the United States of America.
Thats a very respectable position.

This doesnt mean that I approve of him, or his failures as president.

Im a liberal.

Respect is not a case of political choice.
His office warrants respect, even if his performance most certainly does not.

I have a certain amoun of respect for Bush.
Hes the President of the United States of America.
Thats a very respectable position.

This doesnt mean that I approve of him, or his failures as president.

Im a liberal.

Respect is not a case of political choice.
His office warrants respect, even if his performance most certainly does not.

truth.

I have a certain amoun of respect for Bush.
Hes the President of the United States of America.
Thats a very respectable position.

This doesnt mean that I approve of him, or his failures as president.

Im a liberal.

Respect is not a case of political choice.
His office warrants respect, even if his performance most certainly does not.

truth.

Word.

I do agree with you. Though I do not agree with many of his policies, he still was a president and no use bashing him now. Stick to Bush, he is the one who can be re-elected.

Somehow I still respect Reagan. I do not love him or anything, but respect.and your "leftwing"? I dont think so...Oh shut up with you freaking purity tests. You ever stop to think that by being so opposed to anyone who doesn't toe your party line that you're as closed-minded and intolerant as the christian fundamentalists you like to rag on so hard? You're an embarassment, TRA. Get over yourself.I think someone embracing the rise of american facism goes a little beyond "purity tests"--Im not opposed to people who disagree with me at all in fact I like it--but SD always claimed to be a lefty to me and all hes ever done in the forum is say rightwing things--its a matter of truth in packaging--and in case you never noticed I dont get embarassed since its a middle class insecurity

I have a certain amoun of respect for Bush.
Hes the President of the United States of America.
Thats a very respectable position.

This doesnt mean that I approve of him, or his failures as president.

Im a liberal.

Respect is not a case of political choice.
His office warrants respect, even if his performance most certainly does not.

truth.I disagree--respect is earned and the office itself does nothing to warrant respect--this kind of thinking is monarchistic

the point is election year spin doctoring to distract from the shame and degridation of bush.

raygun was nothing to be proud of as governor (or even as actor) and even less so as president

=^^=
.../\..

Many of you are missing the point that THIS SAME SUBJECT has been posted a million times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!