NationStates Jolt Archive

To hear some people talk, you'd think that the Late 60s was the greatest and most enlightened period in the Western world since The Renaissance. Was it?

No doubt that there was a lot of amazing change and innovation back then. Some rather good ideas were brought forward that we've never really even tried.

It was remarkable that you had a large part of sociey begin to question authority and refuse to just go along with previous social norms. The contraceptive pill and feminism changed everything. Music, film & arts got experimental/radical even at commercial levels. Human rights, Gay rights and Environmentalism began coming to prominence. These are just a few things that really seemed to become widespread in the 60s.

Lots of younger people are understandably sick/tired of the Baby Boomers hogging the culture and going on about how great they were "back in the day". It seems that generation failed miserably in carrying through with all their 60s-era talk of a better world.

But does that cynicism perhaps blind us to objectively looking at the decade itself?

I've heard some people talk as if the 60s were just a terrible time. Wouldn't it be great, they say, if we could somehow go back to that "better, simpler, more moral" time of the 1950s and treat the 60s as a nightmare to be best forgotten?

most tumultuous times, for sure.

The 60's had it's own ups and downs. Most noticably...the Space Race was a good up I respect the 60's for.

screw the sixties. worst. time. ever. :?

It's when when that Italiano people were backstabbed.

It's when when that Italiano people were backstabbed.

Explain please - likely most of us don't know what was going on in Italy back then.

screw the sixties. worst. time. ever. :?

Why?

screw the sixties. worst. time. ever. :?

Why?

hippies

Now rocks. 10 years from now will rock even more.

It's when when that Italiano people were backstabbed.

Explain please - likely most of us don't know what was going on in Italy back then.

It's not about Italia. The government lost interest in the Italian community.

I'll pass on free love and free drugs.

(Well, at least the second part :wink: )

hippies: up.
student revolts: up.
peace and love and drugs: up.
vietname: down.

screw the sixties. worst. time. ever. :?

Why?

hippies

Yeah but you coulda been over in 'Nam fryin' Commies. It woulda been heaven for you :)

Yeah but you coulda been over in 'Nam fryin' Commies. It woulda been heaven for you :)

"how can you shoot women and children" gunner: "its easy, just dont lead them as much"

Or is the smell of napalm in the morning better.... hmmmm.... napalm ....smells like, victory.

Gotta love that Viet Nam war. And race riots, can't hate those. And how about politicians being killed every time you got to the point where you could match the name to the face, wasn't that great. I almost forgot the lynchings too, gosh thoe were swell. The rise of the American Nazi party, wow, who couldn't love that Rockwell fellow.

As for the ideals, well the '20s and '30s also had a large portion of society begin to question authority, and in the 1890s there were some fairly powerful movements by a majority of the population questioning authority, and what was the US civil War all anout anyway?

The pill was actually probably less innovative than pantyhose in changing everything, and the sexual morality of the 20s, including homosexuality made the '60s seem prudish - heck in the 1930's the annual Odd Fellows Balls in NYC were massive drag/gay events held on the streets .

Enviromentalism began coming into promenience in the '60s? You have to stop smoking so much nature, enviromentalism was promenient back in the 1880's and lost promenence in 1930s on. In the 1960s the enviroment became so bad (rivers catching fire and stuff) enviromentalism had to return to promenience.

The sixties were not a nice time, the 70s were nicer. In the sixties, as seems to be case now, the generation coming of age had to take stock of what the precious generation or two had screwed up and fix it, much like the generation coming of age in the 1920'sand 1930s had to and the generation of the 1880's had to. It's a cyclical thing, one generation has idealism and fixes things, the next genration has the benefit of the ideals and slacks off. Normally at this point in the cycle the baby-boomers would be dying off and only minorly interact with their grandchildren (the children of generation X), but we've managed to keep them healthy and out of the nursing homes so they're still hogging things

You're right that a lot of the ideas of the 60s had been briefly tried in earlier times by certain artistic small elites. But perhaps they weren't as widespread and pervasive as in the 60s.

One big difference is that so much of the 60s history, imagery and music has been preserved on DVD and CD where it can be seen by large numbers of younger people. Whereas the social experiments of earlier times were largely forgotten.

screw the sixties. worst. time. ever. :?

Why?

hippies

Yeah but you coulda been over in 'Nam fryin' Commies. It woulda been heaven for you :)

damn right

Were there PCs in the 60s? Internet? No, I don't think so.
90s > 60s

the 60s were like every other decade. at points there was extremism, and at other points there was a sense of stability and sensibility found in all other decades. the 50s and the 40s were no different, neither were the 70s, or 80s.

The sixties were a nightmare. The government and hippies set young against old, black against white, America against the world, environmentalists against businessmen, and most every other conflict imaginable. In fact, I personally feel that the US was closest to civil war since the 1860s.

The sixties were a nightmare. The government and hippies set young against old, black against white, America against the world, environmentalists against businessmen, and most every other conflict imaginable. In fact, I personally feel that the US was closest to civil war since the 1860s.

And you don't think anything good came of this? These weren't simply destructive conflicts - they were constructive engagement & dialogue too.

Often you need some conflict to break social stalemates and achieve progress - and lots of progress was made in the 60s.

The sixties were a nightmare. The government and hippies set young against old, black against white, America against the world, environmentalists against businessmen, and most every other conflict imaginable. In fact, I personally feel that the US was closest to civil war since the 1860s.

And you don't think anything good came of this? These weren't simply destructive conflicts - they were constructive engagement & dialogue too.

Often you need some conflict to break social stalemates and achieve progress - and lots of progress was made in the 60s.
What progress? Feminism is a dead movement, killed by women. Black Power has become a movement dominated by the likes of the Black Panthers. I could go on and on, but for the best view of what came from the sixties, look at the early and mid seventies. Crime was at an all time high. Race riots frequently broke out. Even on a cultural level, music turned into that psychodellic rock shit, and the movies were all nothing but blood and guts. I mean, today they're blood and guts, but at least a few of them have some decency, too.

The 70s were better(till maggie came in, of course)

dp

tp

The 70s were better(till maggie came in, of course)
They were worse in the UK! Saying that the seventies was good there literally gives me nightmares. Mohawks abound, the Sex Pistols were popular, and all the while, the Queen seemed to get more and more stuffy.

Times are always getting better. Even with all this hoo ha about Terrorism.. Before that, the fear of communism and cold war was more shittier than now.

Technology is better, fashion is better and girls are prettier.

Unless the world goes into a nuke war with each other and all of civilization gets blown to crap.

wow. you did not just bash 60's rock, did you? (purly euclid) oh man, you obviously don't know a lot about good music.

aside from that, how is feminism dead, or for that mater, killed by women? idiot.


but then aren't you the guy who didn't think einstein was anything special?

The 70s were better(till maggie came in, of course)
They were worse in the UK! Saying that the seventies was good there literally gives me nightmares. Mohawks abound, the Sex Pistols were popular, and all the while, the Queen seemed to get more and more stuffy.

Exactly, we had the sex pistols :D (being a fan of them msyelf :D )

60's were cool but this is what is happenning in 2004 :shock:

http://images.theglobeandmail.com/PhotoGallery/Archive/images/wwip2004june11/foot.jpg

60's bah, no WWW!

To hear some people talk, you'd think that the Late 60s was the greatest and most enlightened period in the Western world since The Renaissance. Was it?

No doubt that there was a lot of amazing change and innovation back then. Some rather good ideas were brought forward that we've never really even tried.

It was remarkable that you had a large part of sociey begin to question authority and refuse to just go along with previous social norms. The contraceptive pill and feminism changed everything. Music, film & arts got experimental/radical even at commercial levels. Human rights, Gay rights and Environmentalism began coming to prominence. These are just a few things that really seemed to become widespread in the 60s.

Lots of younger people are understandably sick/tired of the Baby Boomers hogging the culture and going on about how great they were "back in the day". It seems that generation failed miserably in carrying through with all their 60s-era talk of a better world.

But does that cynicism perhaps blind us to objectively looking at the decade itself?

I've heard some people talk as if the 60s were just a terrible time. Wouldn't it be great, they say, if we could somehow go back to that "better, simpler, more moral" time of the 1950s and treat the 60s as a nightmare to be best forgotten?


My grandfather hated the 1960s.

1968 was one of the defining years of last century. the prague spring, the near collapse of the french gov't to an anarchistic general strike, the chicago cop riot, assassinations a plenty, etc. interesting times, to say the least.

The Roaring Twenties. or maybe the 90's

The 70s were better(till maggie came in, of course)
They were worse in the UK! Saying that the seventies was good there literally gives me nightmares. Mohawks abound, the Sex Pistols were popular, and all the while, the Queen seemed to get more and more stuffy.

Exactly, we had the sex pistols :D (being a fan of them msyelf :D )
The Sex Pistols couldn't even sing! They shouted and mindlessly played their instruments. It's too bad they were most associated with the punk movement.

the best time is, and always will be, right now

besides the 60s were a mixed bag..... "hey jude" lost to "love and marriage" for best song of the year
yes THAT "love and marriage" theme song for married with children

My grandfather hated the 1960s.

Did he say why?

My grandfather hated the 1960s.

Did he say why?


He said, "It's when the nig---- got all out of control and started rioting on a regular basis. It's when young people started going at it in the streets, it was when the 3rd worlders started flooding in here because of that nig--- lover Lyndon Johnson, we started throwing away our sons lives in vietnam, etc."

My grandfather hated the 1960s.

Did he say why?


He said, "It's when the nig---- got all out of control and started rioting on a regular basis. It's when young people started going at it in the streets, it was when the 3rd worlders started flooding in here because of that nig--- lover Lyndon Johnson, we started throwing away our sons lives in vietnam, etc."

I guess your grandfather was fairly representative of quite a few people of his generation back than. I think the 60s helped change attitudes like that so that they're now rightly considered jurassic. He was right about Viet Nam at least.

My grandfather hated the 1960s.

Did he say why?


He said, "It's when the nig---- got all out of control and started rioting on a regular basis. It's when young people started going at it in the streets, it was when the 3rd worlders started flooding in here because of that nig--- lover Lyndon Johnson, we started throwing away our sons lives in vietnam, etc."

I guess your grandfather was fairly representative of quite a few people of his generation back than. I think the 60s helped change attitudes like that so that they're now rightly considered jurassic. He was right about Viet Nam at least.


He is still a good ole boy and hasn't changed one bit, and I couldn't be happier for him. Change is bad.

As some one who was actually born in the 60's.. (Although I can't claim I recall them)

It was war... and the left won. It was a revolution. Civil rights, sexual freedom because women could now control their bodies thankfully because of the pill. The best music ever made.. Peace over War.. Love over Hate...Many historians already believe it was a civil war of sorts.. and the left won it.. so, no matter how fabulous the 60's were and gave people so much more freedom and hope.. and reason and cause, you're never going to get a conservative or a right-winger to admit what a truly important time in history it was.

I asked my grandad about the 1960s and he said that it was the most disgusting, debauched time that western civilisation has ever lived through. My parents are the same as well, they see it as a time when society's morals went down the pan completely. But I've always thought that it seemed like an exciting time to grow up. There was all that change in society and people started gaining greater freedoms. Though one thing's for sure, if I this in the 1960s now I probably woudn't have been able to be a part of it, due to the rules of my parents. I've always got the impression that the changes of the 60s bypassed them...

As some one who was actually born in the 60's.. (Although I can't claim I recall them)

It was war... and the left won. It was a revolution. Civil rights, sexual freedom because women could now control their bodies thankfully because of the pill. The best music ever made.. Peace over War.. Love over Hate...Many historians already believe it was a civil war of sorts.. and the left won it.. so, no matter how fabulous the 60's were and gave people so much more freedom and hope.. and reason and cause, you're never going to get a conservative or a right-winger to admit what a truly important time in history it was.


Just like the french radicals won the revolution in 1789, but then the Thermidorean Reaction and the radicals were persecuted and slaughtered. The pendulum swings both ways as time passes, the 60s it swang left. I just hope that when it swings right again, that it swings so far right that there is no possibility it can swing left ever again.

The pendulum swings both ways as time passes, the 60s it swang left. I just hope that when it swings right again, that it swings so far right that there is no possibility it can swing left ever again.

You would have had your wish if Hitler had won WWII. Is that your big dream?

The pendulum swings both ways as time passes, the 60s it swang left. I just hope that when it swings right again, that it swings so far right that there is no possibility it can swing left ever again.

You would have had your wish if Hitler had won WWII. Is that your big dream?

My mother and I had a conversation many years ago, we were talking and I said, "Hey mom, what do you think the world would be like if the Axis Powers, primarily Germany, had won?"

She immediately and firmly replied with one word, "Safer".

My mother and I had a conversation many years ago, we were talking and I said, "Hey mom, what do you think the world would be like if the Axis Powers, primarily Germany, had won?"

She immediately and firmly replied with one word, "Safer".

Did you not find that a very chilling answer? I'll venture that most here would find it so.

Is a "safer" world necessarily a better one?

My mother and I had a conversation many years ago, we were talking and I said, "Hey mom, what do you think the world would be like if the Axis Powers, primarily Germany, had won?"

She immediately and firmly replied with one word, "Safer".

Did you not find that a very chilling answer? I'll venture that most here would find it so.

Is a "safer" world necessarily a better one?


No I found it very comforting that my mother wasn't a PC brainwashed racially suicidal zombie like far too many women are.

The sixties were more the product of the baby boom, I'd say. There were SO many young people then, and like all young people should be, they were idealists. They wanted to change the face of the world. They did. I wasn't there, I was born about 15 years too late, but when a lot of people talk about the sixties being flower power and hippies, really they mean the early seventies. The hippies didn't really come into their own until 1967, the summer of love, or 1969, Woodstock, and after that, they began selling hippie wigs and turning it commercial. Still, the zeitgeist of the 60's was great. I caught a strong taste of it in my childhood.

No I found it very comforting that my mother wasn't a PC brainwashed racially suicidal zombie like far too many women are.

dude, your mom's an idiot.
she's basically saying that the world would be better off if there were only white people in the world. you don't have to be a "PC brainwashed idiot" to know that genocide is a bad thing.

not to mention that you are an idiot, based on what you think about women, i think that's a fair assessment.

...a PC brainwashed racially suicidal zombie like far too many women are.

Oh BOY do I enjoy telling you that I've been in a happy, wonderful "inter-racial" marriage for years. Bet that just twists your little 'ol pea brain right in two doesn't it?

Roger Maris hit 61 homeruns...but they came with an asterisk.

Dazzling John Kennedy and Jackie took over the White House.

JFK, RFK, and MLK, Jr. were assassinated.

I got my driver's license and my draft card.

Americans walked on the moon...while I watched.

The sixties happened, and then we moved on.

((bump))

What most people refer to as the 'sixties' was actually the period covering the very late sixties and the early seventies (up until watergate and disco). Speaking as someone who lived throught the period, there was a certain feeling that things could be changed, enough people seemed to be coming together demanding things like an end to the war in vietnam, equality for all races and genders, an end to pollution and preservation of the earth, anything seemed possible. Maybe it was just what was going on around me, but everyone seemed informed, actively involved or at least caring about the social issues of the day. The apathy that permeates society today is a stark contrast to what I remember.

What most people refer to as the 'sixties' was actually the period covering the very late sixties and the early seventies (up until watergate and disco).

I think you're about right re the period. For me the Sixties began with The Beatles' arrival in North America ('64) and ended with the terrible economic upheavals circa 1973 (eg huge oil-price increases, inflation, unemployment, high interest rates etc etc. Note that these began in Republican admins.)

Maybe it was just what was going on around me, but everyone seemed informed, actively involved or at least caring about the social issues of the day. The apathy that permeates society today is a stark contrast to what I remember.

I think that the 70s brought in a number of economic and social attacks on us all that were deliberately intended to abort the "Affluent-Activist Society" just as it was really changing things, and steer us all back to scrabbling for survival.

You know, the only people who get all nostalgic about the 60's are Baby Boomers.

Wasn't it all about changing the world and defying the establishment (whatever the "establishment" was, government and society I suppose) and bringing peace to humanity.

As if smoking pot and getting laid by anyone who was into "free love" was going to make the world a better place.

Then...they all went on to be corporate drones and lawyers and bought houses in the burbs with two car garages.

Sellouts.

Ok, i don't care about politics, the 60s ruled, if only because of the music!

*Slow down, you movin' to fast! You've got make the mornin' last! Just kickin' down the cobblestones, lookin' for love and feelin' groovy!*

*One is the lonliest number that you'll ever do! Two can be as bad as one, it's the lonliest number says the number one.*

*It's your thang, do what ya wanna do. I can't tell ya, who ta sock it to!*


The 60s ruled!

I think you're about right re the period. For me the Sixties began with The Beatles' arrival in North America ('64) and ended with the terrible economic upheavals circa 1973 (eg huge oil-price increases, inflation, unemployment, high interest rates etc etc.

Are you channeling dead British poets again?

Sexual intercourse began
In nineteen sixty-three
(Which was rather late for me)-
Between the end of the Chatterley ban
And the Beatles' first LP.

You know, the only people who get all nostalgic about the 60's are Baby Boomers.


i wasn't even around in the 60's and i'm nostalgic for them. great things happened and the music and fashion were great.

As if smoking pot and getting laid by anyone who was into "free love" was going to make the world a better place.

That's a pretty ridiculous stereotype/simplification of 60s youth - it was the basic Conservative lie back then and I see it still is.

Then...they all went on to be corporate drones and lawyers and bought houses in the burbs with two car garages.

Sellouts.

The planned economic upheavals of the 70s and the "Me-ist" consumer propaganda of the 80s were carefully designed to ensure that result and your belief. Anybody else would've been forced to sell out too. That still doesn't negate the ideals and actions of 60s youth before they were finally broken.

hmmm..the 60's.....evil post modern architecture and town planning!!!! :evil:
(well in britain at least...)

hmmm..the 60's.....evil post modern architecture and town planning!!!! :evil:
(well in britain at least...)

I do agree with you on that. Point to a hideous, soviet-looking slab of a building and chances are it was built in the 60s. WTF were they thinking?

To many hippies.

IMHO the 80s we're the greatest ever - the fall of the Berlin wall and the USSR, Reagan's nuke reduction plan, etc

The sixties was like... sex, drugs, music AND there were actual causes to rebel against the establishment (IE: fear of being sent off to war, black people getting water cannoned etc)