NationStates Jolt Archive

Obviously, this is intended for those who live in Europe, however, any and all contributions are welcome. I want to know which party you support, along with some reasons why. I hope that we can get a good debate out of it.
I'll go first. I support the Conservatives, due to there "Britain first" policy towards Europe, as opposed to Blairs "Europe first." (simplified so that I can get this topic up quickly.) I don't support any of the nationalist parties, as their views conflict with mine. (SNP want out of Britain, and the BNP want everyone out of Britain except their friends. (again simplified, but it's enough to say I don't support them, and if you want to discuss that, well, there's already a thread.) ) I don't support the liberal democrats, because, though they are centists, they lean slightly to labours side on Europe. I'm sure I'll add more when (if) this gets underway.

Just a quick question;

How has the inclusion of all the East European states affected the parties? And how close are the ties in the Euro parliament between the British and Polish MP's?

..

I voted for the Liberal Party because I felt that their view of Europe was closest to mine. Even though they have a snowball's chance in hell of sending an MEP to the parliament anyway (which has little power anyway.)

Well, this is still a very recent event, you understand, and politicians are still really working to it. I can answer your question best in regards to the SNPs reaction to it. The SNP would like to see Scotland have its own seat at the European parliament, and since several new Eastern nations have a smaller populace than Scotland, and have a seat, this has been the focus of their campaign. (the party political broadcast was solely about this new matter.) Labour, being the nation in charge have the standard "British" opinion on the new inclusions, so find Blairs opinion, which is "It's a great thing, how can we get further into Europe." The Conservative party, I believe are taking the stance "It's all well and good for them, but what does it have to do with us? Europe is not right for us."

Also, in answer to your other question regarding diplomatic ties between the Polish MEPs and UK MEPs, well they aren't too familiar with each other, so ties aren't too close.

I hope that explains it.

I voted for the Liberal Party because I felt that their view of Europe was closest to mine. Even though they have a snowball's chance in hell of sending an MEP to the parliament anyway (which has little power anyway.)

"I voted for": wrong, first country that is voting is The Netherlands (today, EU time) so it is impossible that you could have vote on 08/06/04.

BTW, the Dutch will have a fine because they vote on thursday and will give the results later in the evening (wich can influence some other EU voters in other countries)while the rest of the EU wil vote in the weekend (most on sunday, because of the still big influence of the church, something like the extremist Bush christians, it is forbiden to vote on a "sunday")

I voted for the Liberal Party because I felt that their view of Europe was closest to mine. Even though they have a snowball's chance in hell of sending an MEP to the parliament anyway (which has little power anyway.)

"I voted for": wrong, first country that is voting is The Netherlands (today, EU time) so it is impossible that you could have vote on 08/06/04.

BTW, the Dutch will have a fine because they vote on thursday and will give the results later in the evening (wich can influence some other EU voters in other countries)while the rest of the EU wil vote in the weekend (most on sunday, because of the still big influence of the church, something like the extremist Bush christians, it is forbiden to vote on a "sunday")

Well, I have put a cross next to the party and posted my ballot paper. Ahh postal voting, undemocratic and unrepresentative. ;)

if i could vote, i would vote left wing. but im norwegian, so no. In any case, in the EU, Europe SHOULD come first, seeing as it is the EUROPEAN Union.

Not necessarily. The European Union is not a nation, so understandably (thankfully) for me, people do not hold their loyalties to it, but rather their own nation. Given that the EU serves rather as a forum for political ideas, nations which seek to change the EUs role, to increase or decrease its influence, are many, and can make up the largest amount of politicians there. Not many people seem to want to keep the EU as it is. They seem to either want a superstate, or none at all. I'd rather have none.

I voted for the Liberal Party because I felt that their view of Europe was closest to mine. Even though they have a snowball's chance in hell of sending an MEP to the parliament anyway (which has little power anyway.)

"I voted for": wrong, first country that is voting is The Netherlands (today, EU time) so it is impossible that you could have vote on 08/06/04.

BTW, the Dutch will have a fine because they vote on thursday and will give the results later in the evening (wich can influence some other EU voters in other countries)while the rest of the EU wil vote in the weekend (most on sunday, because of the still big influence of the church, something like the extremist Bush christians, it is forbiden to vote on a "sunday")

Well, I have put a cross next to the party and posted my ballot paper. Ahh postal voting, undemocratic and unrepresentative. ;)



Forgot that postal voting for expats is possible, sorry,(glad you voted) :oops:

I don't support the liberal democrats, because, though they are centists, they lean slightly to labours side on Europe.

I don't really like any of the parties, but I voted LibDem as I prefer them to the others, and I really respect Menzies Campbell. But the LibDems are way to the left of Labour, I don't see how you can call them centrists?

When looking at labour,LibDem, and Tory policy,LibDems always seem to be more centrally based, though, to be honest, as far as Europe goes, I don't have a huge knowledge of their beliefs.

I voted for the Liberal Party because I felt that their view of Europe was closest to mine. Even though they have a snowball's chance in hell of sending an MEP to the parliament anyway (which has little power anyway.)

"I voted for": wrong, first country that is voting is The Netherlands (today, EU time) so it is impossible that you could have vote on 08/06/04.

BTW, the Dutch will have a fine because they vote on thursday and will give the results later in the evening (wich can influence some other EU voters in other countries)while the rest of the EU wil vote in the weekend (most on sunday, because of the still big influence of the church, something like the extremist Bush christians, it is forbiden to vote on a "sunday")

Well, I have put a cross next to the party and posted my ballot paper. Ahh postal voting, undemocratic and unrepresentative. ;)



Forgot that postal voting for expats is possible, sorry,(glad you voted) :oops:

No I'm not an ex-pat, but I live in an area that is experimenting with all-postal voting. I posted it a week early (because I got week messed up)

yeh we voted by post too :D

the liberals DO win seats in the European Parliament - it's PR so every vote counts. New Labour advocates a pro-Europe stance - but take each issue on its merit and only support what is of benefit to the UK. the Conservatives - well, they're a bit fudged thanks to the UKIP. Once again Europe threatens to split the party to the point of oblivion.

the powers of the European Parliament have been increased considerably (Maastricht&Amsterdam Treaties), and this is set to continue with the prospect of a European constitution. The party groupings within the parliament have, correspondingly, become more meaningful. The Socialist grouping has acted together effectively in the field of workers' rights (48 hour working week, etc) - just as an example

I find a pitty that most EU countries ar edebating about national items instead of EU items (block against the EU, environment, EU parliament or EU commission aso.). I vote in France because i work there but I also vote for the regional elections in Belgium that have the same date (sunday). When I read the news or watch sattelite, they are talking about anything but the EU.

I am born in Flanders but watch the "Vlaams Blok" (Flemish Neo Nazi party),they will have about 22% in one of th erichest regions in the world :oops: They are to rich in Flanders and shouild live all one day in africa or a day in cities like Marseille to realise how good they are, instead of bashing the Walloons (southern, more poor French speking part of Belgium).

yeh we voted by post too :D

the liberals DO win seats in the European Parliament - it's PR so every vote counts. New Labour advocates a pro-Europe stance - but take each issue on its merit and only support what is of benefit to the UK. the Conservatives - well, they're a bit fudged thanks to the UKIP. Once again Europe threatens to split the party to the point of oblivion.

the powers of the European Parliament have been increased considerably (Maastricht&Amsterdam Treaties), and this is set to continue with the prospect of a European constitution. The party groupings within the parliament have, correspondingly, become more meaningful. The Socialist grouping has acted together effectively in the field of workers' rights (48 hour working week, etc) - just as an example

Unfortunately the unelected Comission keeps overruling the elected Parliament (most recently on software patents). If we scrapped the Comission I'd be much happier with Europe.

Unfortunately the unelected Comission keeps overruling the elected Parliament (most recently on software patents). If we scrapped the Comission I'd be much happier with Europe.

That is what I wanted to say :evil: :wink:

The whole point of this is strange.
-Murdoch doesn't want us in the E.U.
-Blair needs his support if he's to have any chance of re-erlection.
-The date of the refferendum and timing, just after the time the next general election may be held.
-Shows Blair forfuilling his democratic promise, but means we wont go in.
- The day before Blair announced it without any mention of it to his Party or the Cabinet, he met privatly his Murdoch

Important point,
THERE IS NO BRITISH EMPIRE ANY MORE. We've been in constant decline since the start of last centuary.

We are delining.
We need Europe or we will be left behind ecnomicaly
a European super state is a good thing, the level of corruption is low compared to most European Govt.'s
It would balance the tensions that will soon grow between China and the US.
The aims and actions of the EU have all been good, rational and generaly free from most (but not all) party politics bickering, it seems the EU chamber is generaly intelligent and comminted to making things better.

NOTE: The majority of people, if given a refferendum, at any point in the last 50 years would have voted back in the Death Penalty. This is fact.

The sad truth is, we dont even deserve our sham of an elected oligarghy they try to pass of as a cheap copy of Athens' true democracy.
The people of Britian arn't responsible enough for politics, it's a sad truth, only a section, albeit considerable, of the middle class makes up the maority of voters. 54% last election for the turnout wasn't it? The conditions get better everyday for someone to take the power from the idiot population (myself incl.) that don't have the maturity to handel it.
'Democracy not only means rights, it also means responsibilities, obligations and discipline."

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the planned EU constitution? If we have a referendum on it I feel I should at least read the first page. (Why couldn't they just channel AMericas Founding Fathers and produce a document that anyone could read and understand easily)

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the planned EU constitution?

Here you go:

http://europa.eu.int/futurum/constitution/index_en.htm

Next time type 'EU Constitution' in a search engine... :roll:

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the planned EU constitution?

Here you go:

http://europa.eu.int/futurum/constitution/index_en.htm

Next time type 'EU Constitution' in a search engine... :roll:

Believe it or not, I tried that. But it was/is taking ages. And the server seemed stable, so I tried this way.

I disagree with you on all counts. Japan is a nation not unlike ourselves (kinda, not culturally, but economically compared to populace) , and its success has hurt it. The EU may not be corrupt, but it is inefficient, and, doesn't stand for us. French and German influence in Europe is too great at the moment, and they have the ear and attention of every European nation. They have actually said that they are not willing to allow the UK this kind of influence, despite the fact that economically, we are more powerful than these nation, as well as having a higher populace, and more influence in the outside world. Also, Europe does not have a single united interest to look out for, so nations would be put to the sidelines, especially those who lack influence.

Your statement about the death penalty. This may be true. It is not your (or my) place to pass judgement on the people who are for a death penalty. They may find what you think of justice as ridiculous as you find their opinions. I, personally would settle for actual punishments, as opposed to the ridiculously short sentences given nowadays. A European superstate would lead to the end of the NHS. It is my opinion that the NHS is one of the greatest achievments and ideas Britain has had, and I do not wish to sacrifice it. Unified tax rates would be detrimental to those nations unable to support it (notably the new Eastern nations)

The people of Britian arn't responsible enough for politics, it's a sad truth, only a section, albeit considerable, of the middle class makes up the maority of voters. 54% last election for the turnout wasn't it? Apathy is a huge problem in many nations. The turnout in 2001 was something like a 20% drop in turnout. A European superstate would likely lower this, as the majority in Britain does not want a superstate. This would make people who would vote feel as if their vote was wasted.

I hope that made sense. I typed it out rather quickly.

I disagree with you on all counts. Japan is a nation not unlike ourselves (kinda, not culturally, but economically compared to populace) , and its success has hurt it. The EU may not be corrupt, but it is inefficient, and, doesn't stand for us. French and German influence in Europe is too great at the moment, and they have the ear and attention of every European nation. They have actually said that they are not willing to allow the UK this kind of influence, despite the fact that economically, we are more powerful than these nation, as well as having a higher populace,

UK: 60,094,648
France: 60,180,529
Germany: 82,398,326
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html]!

ja ja. I knew Germany had a higher populace, but I didn't know about France. We are richer than both though (not put together, and we hold more influence on the world stage.) (also, unless Germany sneaked back in front)

There is a party in Brittain that is called "the independent party" and wants the UK out of EU. Well, that is fine, that is what most people on the continent to think of them, since they are anti EU and only sabotage the EU as the US dog they are. So lets agree, go away, we even will pay ya :wink:

I am interpreting what you said in the way I hope it's meant, but I have to ask. Where are you SMW? (if you said it on the thread somewhere, when we were talking about postal votes, point me.)