NationStates Jolt Archive

I know he has his own views and opinions, but This guys really has his heart set on taking Bush down.

Well considering the fact of how bad Bush had handled the country... I'm not really surprised.

Moore should be jailed for the crime of destroying the documentary cinema as a genre by turning it into an election device.

If there had been such an option, I would have voted 'I like him as he makes some good points, but I don't always trust him as he has a tendency to exagerate'.

If there had been such an option, I would have voted 'I like him as he makes some good points, but I don't always trust him as he has a tendency to exagerate'.

I agree, but I would have added that he is also one hell of a filmmaker, at least from a technical perspective. Being wrong half the time does not preclde one from producing a good product.

--P.

And he's not even wrong half the time.

PS--to anyone who thinks this film is nothing more than a Kerry ad, let me point out that production on this film started long before the Democratic party had chosen its nominee and that Moore supported Nader in 2000.

Well considering the fact of how bad Bush had handled the country... I'm not really surprised.

It's an election year and the watchdog groups are throwing everything they have at Bush. It's normal for this to happen- As for me, I think he is doing a good job.

It's funny really as a Canadian I have a constant stream of Mr. Moore but from reading your posts it seems that the American public is only exposed to the material when it gains political ground for one group or another. I think that Mr. Moore makes a valid point that NORTH AMERICANS as a whole have lost touch with their respective governments we are no longer ruled by the people nor for the people, a select few decide what direction to push us all and what we get in return for hard work, sacrifice and a whole lot of tax are two or three names on a ballot every few years this to me is not democracy its a cash grab. I support Mr. Moore and I feel that his heart is in the right place yes he has done good and bad but as long as his message remains "question your government and educate yourselves" I can't possibly have a problem with that and neither should any intellectuals.

What I like about this guy, is that he exposes what most people would prefer to remain hidden. Ignoring problems or simply wishing them away just won't work.

It appears that the US mindset regarding Michael Moore, is one of love and hate. If one keeps an open mind while viewing his works, one just might be able to offer positive solutions rather negative criticism that will accomplish nothing.

I think Michael Moore truly loves his country but knows her image is tarnished. I give him credit for wanting his country to be the best she can be. Keep up the good work Michael.

Overrated Political Satirist. Maybe he'll be a bit different with this new "farenheit 9/11" though. We'll see.

He skews too many facts and has too much of an agenda for me to like him that much.

It's funny really as a Canadian I have a constant stream of Mr. Moore but from reading your posts it seems that the American public is only exposed to the material when it gains political ground for one group or another. I think that Mr. Moore makes a valid point that NORTH AMERICANS as a whole have lost touch with their respective governments we are no longer ruled by the people nor for the people, a select few decide what direction to push us all and what we get in return for hard work, sacrifice and a whole lot of tax are two or three names on a ballot every few years this to me is not democracy its a cash grab. I support Mr. Moore and I feel that his heart is in the right place yes he has done good and bad but as long as his message remains "question your government and educate yourselves" I can't possibly have a problem with that and neither should any intellectuals.


Its not just North Americans that are in the same position. One little cross every 4-5 years is accepted as democracy in England too. Questioning your government and having more say especially with modern technology seems to be the issue we should be promoting. Then Mr Moore (like him or not) might not be necessary.

I think Moore does indeed have some very good points and is a lot tougher than most liberals.

I think it is very worrying to see the people apathetic and disillusioned and as power-brokers constantly speak of promoting democracy, we see the western worlds slow and steady slide into despotism.....

Moore's film-making is hardly an election tool just because it doesn't curry favour with the current admin. -Bowling for Columbine wasnt an election issue, nor was Roger & me, nor was TV nation.

Also, please give me ONE example where Moore has 'skwered' the facts or being wrong or mis-represented anyone or anything?

Well considering the fact of how bad Bush had handled the country... I'm not really surprised.

It's an election year and the watchdog groups are throwing everything they have at Bush. It's normal for this to happen- As for me, I think he is doing a good job.

Yeah right... *cough, cough* If you call killing hundreds of Americans for no real reason, a good job... If you call torturing innocent Iraqi civilians a good job... If you call restricting our rights with the Patriot Acts a good job...

"White people scare the crap out of me. … I have never been attacked by a black person, never been evicted by a black person, never had my security deposit ripped off by a black landlord, never had a black landlord … never been pulled over by a black cop, never been sold a lemon by a black car salesman, never seen a black car salesman, never had a black person deny me a bank loan, never had a black person bury my movie, and I've never heard a black person say, 'We're going to eliminate ten thousand jobs here - have a nice day!'" --Michael Moore, writing in "Stupid White Men"

I guess he has never heard of LC Beatrice International and Reginald Lewis or American Express and Ken Chenault?

Being devoted to protectionism doesn't necessarily make him deserving of adulation in my opinion.

If there had been such an option, I would have voted 'I like him as he makes some good points, but I don't always trust him as he has a tendency to exagerate'.

I agree, but I would have added that he is also one hell of a filmmaker, at least from a technical perspective. Being wrong half the time does not preclde one from producing a good product.

--P.No, but it does preclude him from making a good documentary

Hum as to wheater as a film maker he's acurate i don't know

Most of what he does present seems true

but what doesn't he present

cue a (er what ever the opposite of a liberal is) to make films as well

as to the complaint his films are vitirolict and cosist of a stream of prouncments - do Feck off

have you ever heard a speech by an right wing presit type person

So i tend to think he's needed to allow for balance presentation of veiws (with the additonal assumption that the right answer is not nesasarily in the middle but may sometimes lie with either party (or neither)

Acutally alot of the lambast against him seems syptomaitic off and odd effect the relgion Vs science argument is impossible because relgion does not argue it mearly states.

So an exterem rightwing person can speek with ETXREME vigoour and simpleisitcs langauge and veiws,on one subject. an extremem liberal on the other hand has to speek much more carefully normally and the arguments are considerably more complex.

So michel more does the liberal arguments good for pointing out the flaws and the point the other 'side' would not like mentioned

A look forward to seeing the film when its relasled here in the UK (which incidently was done with no politcal pussyfooting even consdering we too are nearing an election).

If there had been such an option, I would have voted 'I like him as he makes some good points, but I don't always trust him as he has a tendency to exagerate'.

I agree. The anti-Moorites would trash the jewels along with the glass..

What I like about this guy, is that he exposes what most people would prefer to remain hidden.

I disagree. The average person doesn't want things to be hidden, they want them to be out and exposed as soon as possible so that they can go out and complain about it; they don't actually want to do anything about it, though...just complain.

I'm not sure what I think about Moore. I think he is hoping that, after people go over his work, they will actually want to do something against the injustice. The problem is, people who read and watch his books and movies are the ones merely looking for something to complain about.

What I like about this guy, is that he exposes what most people would prefer to remain hidden.

I disagree. The average person doesn't want things to be hidden, they want them to be out and exposed as soon as possible so that they can go out and complain about it; they don't actually want to do anything about it, though...just complain.

I'm not sure what I think about Moore. I think he is hoping that, after people go over his work, they will actually want to do something against the injustice. The problem is, people who read and watch his books and movies are the ones merely looking for something to complain about.
(emphasis mine)

So the people who decide to protest government or corporate policies, organize food bank drives, join organizations for change, donate money, run in elections, and generally get more involved in their communities as a result of reading Moore's books are just big whiners?

I understand your point completely, Equus, but I doubt that can be said for the majority of people who have shown interest in Moore's work.

here is the URL to get to the trailer for his new movie

http://www.apple.com/trailers/lions_gate/fahrenheit_911

Discuss.

Whether or not you like Bush, you are stuck with him until 2008.

While Michael Moore is, in himself, an interesting collection of opinions and ideas he is also used as an alternative to thinking by people who have decided that they would like to be liberal without really considering what being a liberal means.

People look at Michael Moore and say "well, alright then, that's OK. I can read his books and website, watch his movies and feel that I am educated, aware and doing something about the state of the USA."

I am amused that Michael Moore dedicated his Bush-given tax break to removing George Bush from office and very glad that he feels as strongly about the ills and injustices of America as he does. I just wish he were more capable as a motivator to get people off their rears and actually making definite change to the US' political landscape.

What really prevents Moore from being liked across the board is that he has such an obvious agenda. Most left wingers would find his documentaries music to their ears, but in the same way the right can't stand him and will attack him at every opportunity, regardless of his film making skills. The point is, by making such politically opinionated documentaries, it is all but impossible for them to be judged simply as documentaries because they are so divisive.

Again, a great insight in the US of A. Thanks for your warnings and FACTS Michael.

While Michael Moore is, in himself, an interesting collection of opinions and ideas he is also used as an alternative to thinking by people who have decided that they would like to be liberal without really considering what being a liberal means.

People look at Michael Moore and say "well, alright then, that's OK. I can read his books and website, watch his movies and feel that I am educated, aware and doing something about the state of the USA."

agreed, one of many things that iratates me is people who sign up and carrya badge to a group but do very little to support it, thought in this case if they vote the righting way that would be a good start

though i'm now sure i consider the few liberals i know much about in the US to be the most liberal of liberals if you follow my meaning

While I'm not a fan of either Moore or his films, he does know and recognize the power of modern media as a way of spreading ideas.

There is no difference between Moore making a film to promote Kerry and Gibson making a movie to promote Jesus. There is no difference between the commericals of 9-11 for the Bush campaign and the Nazi propoganda film "The Eternal Jew." When it all boils down, there is no difference between a National Geographic special and Debbie Does Dallas.

Movies are a form of visual and auditory expression that are protected (at least in theory in the US) by the constitution. Just as Bush, Hitler, Kerry and Gibson have made films and commercials to further their own ends, Michal Moore has made his as well. It's merely a form of expression, however it is an incredibly powerful and versitle form, that has been used in many wonderful and horrible ways.

Moore can say what he wants in his films. Bush can too in his. You don't agree with them? Don't watch, it's that simple.

Since Michael Moore has fabricated all of his "Documentaries", I dismiss him a nobody.

Moore is every awful American stereotype in the form of an international asskisser. Fat, loud, self-righteous, bossy and unintelligent.