NationStates Jolt Archive

Following is part one of a long tirade I wrote against President Bush's re-election.

George W. Bush has not been a positive experience for this nation. He launched a war in Iraq under the pretext of an imminent threat from a weapons-of-mass-destruction-wielding Saddam. No such weapons stockpile has ever been found. We also invaded under the claim that Saddam had links to Al-Qaeda, but that ALSO has no corroborating evidence. If we had such evidence, you can rest assured Bush would have trumpeted it to the entire world by now to support his current position. Furthermore, his unilateral actions for an apparently unjustified war which has killed over 800 American soldiers and over 10,000 Iraqi civilians have isolated the United States on the world stage. All the support we garnered after the 9-11 attacks has been squandered. The worldwide fight against terrorism has been imperiled because other nations are now reluctant to work with us.

Bush STILL has a net loss of over one-million jobs on his watch thus far. Some economists are predicting that this "recovery" we are seeing is merely a summer growth spurt. Many companies are clearly worried about their third-quarter returns, and are hedging their bets accordingly.

George W. Bush has presided over some of the most comprehensive rollbacks in environmental regulation in American history. Be advised, I am not a fanatical "tree-hugger" as some conservatives might accuse me of being. But people rely on the environment...there are studies that suggest that growing epidemics of asthma and autism are being fueled, in part, by the continuing and worsening degradation of our environment. If you cannot breathe the air, drink the water, or harvest food from the soil, what then will you do? If you desire specific examples, I can provide them. Back in 2001, Bush tried to strip away new Clinton-era protections that were designed to keep arsenic out of your drinking water. He has rewritten the clean air act in such a way as to encourage the power industry to keep old, dirty plants operating rather than building new, cleaner ones to replace them.

This is also the same president who, rather than developing alternative energy resources to reduce our dependency on foreign (Middle East) oil, has instead said, "Conservation is a personal virtue" and encouraged drilling in national wildlife refuges instead. Mind you! Oil is a finite, limited resource. It seems to me to be an act of sheer idiocy to base our entire economy on a resource which is fast being depleted.

This is a president who has engineered an astonishing rollback in civil liberty! Too many Americans get up on the Fourth of July and wave tiny flags and yell, "We're free!" without taking a moment to reflect on what "free" really means. Bush is currently arguing that he has the right to hold anyone, even American citizens, as "enemy combatants"....he claims the right to hold these people indefinitely, without access to legal counsel or trial by a jury of their peers. While this might seem at first to be acceptable (Eh, they're terrorist scum anyway!), how long will it be before INNOCENT citizens are caught by Bush's massive net? And don't say it cannot happen here in the United States...back in World War 2, we systematically moved all Japanese-Americans on the West Coast into the American equivalent of concentration camps based SOLELY on their ethnicity (Not a SINGLE one of those internees was ever proved to have done anything disloyal to the United States). And the Supreme Court gave the thumbs up to it at the time! It -can- happen here. It HAS happened here, and it -will- happen again unless the public shakes off the chains of apathy and takes responsibility for watching what their public officials do and voting them out of office when they break the social contract between elected representative and elector.

I could go on at length like this, for I have a long memory when it comes to George Bush's actions. I know that some of you out there will probably agree with Republican National Committee chairperson Ed Gillespie and label me as the "Blame/Hate America crowd".

I do not see myself as a "Blame America" person.

A true patriot, as the distinguished Frederick Douglass once said, is a man who fiercely loves his nation and yet will hold it up to the fires of scorn and mockery. In other words, a true patriot, as I see myself, loves the ideals and being of the United States...but does not excuse its' sins in the name of country. God bless America, but also give us the wisdom to see our OWN role in the problems of today as well as the roles of others. And give us the courage to admit our mistakes publicly, learn, and move on.

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Penned by Tarumigan, Shalrirorchia
VOTE KERRY 2004!!

I am not sold on the idea that ONLY George Bush can protect this nation, as he seems to be indicating in his campaign of half-truths and deceptions.

Have you considered that the economic growth rate could merely be the fact that the economy cannot sink any lower and can only grow?

This is also the same president who, rather than developing alternative energy resources to reduce our dependency on foreign (Middle East) oil, has instead said, "Conservation is a personal virtue" and encouraged drilling in national wildlife refuges instead. Mind you! Oil is a finite, limited resource. It seems to me to be an act of sheer idiocy to base our entire economy on a resource which is fast being depleted.


What are the alternatives though, oil is used for much more than fuel.

I try to consider everything that I can under the limits of my humanity, sir. To do any less with such big issues would be a dereliction of my duty as an American citizen.

I don't believe we've hit the absolute bottom, however. Take a look at the Great Depression. It could be MUCH worse.

I try to consider everything that I can under the limits of my humanity, sir. To do any less with such big issues would be a dereliction of my duty as an American citizen.

I don't believe we've hit the absolute bottom, however. Take a look at the Great Depression. It could be MUCH worse.

I meant as far as the so called 'recession' could take us.

Don't vote. It only encourages them!

But if you do, vote Cthulhu. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Well, that is true. Oil is used in plastics, in pharmaceuticals, in the transport network. But what I am saying is that IF we invest heavily and develop alternative energy resources (Solar, hydro, aero, hydrogen exc), and IF there is a systematic and aggressive effort by the federal government to replace current technologies with the new ones, that our need for oil will be drastically reduced...perhaps enough for current resources within the United States to fill the demand. Perhaps this research could even uncover a substitute for oil. I've heard of some reports where experiments to create a petroleum substitute using corn is making progress. But we'll never know what our options are unless we shake loose the oil companies' grip on the political process and find out! We will never do that under oil man Bush's administration.

Please note, I am not an energy industry expert, nor a scientist or technician in the field. I only hold an Associate's degree (AA), in fact, so I readily acknowledge that there are factors I may not see. But common sense can take you a long way, and I see much waste in everyday life that just isn't right. More fuel efficient cars, for example, are within the realm of technological possibility.

No matter how many liberals clog up internet forums, and the real world is a conservative world. This generation is the most conservative one ever, according to several polls asking high school and college students, even when they are being indoctrinated by their liberal professors!

This hostility against Bush is nothing new, throughout the history of America people have been hostile against the President and always spreading rumors and lies (or sometimes the truth, when it comes to a bad president like Clinton) about them. Kerry is unfit for any sort of power. All of this talk about Bush being a moron and an oil-hungry imperialist are absolute lies and I have proof. If Bush wants to rule the world's oil supplies or keep getting rich of his "Texas oil wells" :roll: than he would be keeping America out of all oil-rich countries to keep the price of "his oil" up, it doesn't take any one above a moron to realize that when there is more of something it will cost less. Bush is far from perfect and he may come across as stupid, but he is still a great relief from Clinton and merely one of those smart people who prefer written tests to oral tests, so he isn't very quick with words.

It is difficult to deny (although not impossible, as the left wing has proven) this: Carter ruined the country, Reagan rescued it, George Bush senior. didn't really do anything better or worse, Clinton ruined the country, and George Bush Jr. is well on his way to fixing this country again. People like you leftists are listening to your own enemies (as Americans) for propoganda. Evil does not bother the left and the truth holds no meaning for them.

But note that all politicians tend to end up in the pockets of the current energy barons. Control of scarce resources = Vast Profits = Power

Carter ruined the country, Reagan's brain trust rescued it, George Bush senior, didn't do anything, Clinton made the US a good place to live again, and George Bush Jr. is well on his way to inciting Armageddon. People like you rightists are listening to your own enemies (as Americans) for propoganda. Evil is the Right and the justice holds no meaning for them.

No matter how many liberals clog up internet forums, and the real world is a conservative world. This generation is the most conservative one ever, according to several polls asking high school and college students, even when they are being indoctrinated by their liberal professors! I question the validaty of these polls. Yes, there are a fair number of conservatives in my highschool, but I live in the buckle of the bible belt, so thats to be expected. However, my school had an equal if not greater number of liberals. I can see if they only polled texan catholic schools, or country western fans, but I can't see a truely unbiased poll saying that this is the most conservative generation (specially considering that you can't even mention the word sex near half the people in my church--all of who are over 60),

So the right is evil? Before I even get into all that the right does, I will ask you this: so if the right is evil than the left must be good, is this correct to you? Than how could what is right tolerate the greatest evil of all against the most vulnerable beings on earth: unborn babies. The left's toleration and insistance of aborting helpless little children just proves that the left wing is evil and that the right, being so eager to help these left fortunate children and adopt them and care for them just proves that the right is, pardon the wording of this, right.

No matter how many liberals clog up internet forums, and the real world is a conservative world. This generation is the most conservative one ever, according to several polls asking high school and college students, even when they are being indoctrinated by their liberal professors! I question the validaty of these polls. Yes, there are a fair number of conservatives in my highschool, but I live in the buckle of the bible belt, so thats to be expected. However, my school had an equal if not greater number of liberals. I can see if they only polled texan catholic schools, or country western fans, but I can't see a truely unbiased poll saying that this is the most conservative generation (specially considering that you can't even mention the word sex near half the people in my church--all of who are over 60),
Depending on the polls, he's right. I believe Newsweek ran a story a while ago that had a poll in which the majority of students supported Bush. I believe this has changed somewhat over the past year, but this was during the run up and at the beggining of the Iraq war, whereas in say the later 60's or 70's there would have been mass protests about that kindf of stuff. If you take the word conservative to mean in this case Republican, then I believe he's right.

So the right is evil? Before I even get into all that the right does, I will ask you this: so if the right is evil than the left must be good, is this correct to you? Than how could what is right tolerate the greatest evil of all against the most vulnerable beings on earth: unborn babies. The left's toleration and insistance of aborting helpless little children just proves that the left wing is evil and that the right, being so eager to help these left fortunate children and adopt them and care for them just proves that the right is, pardon the wording of this, right.

First off, I'd like to also ask exactly which polls you are referring to. To make this broad a claim, surely there must be some evidence to back it up.

Second, neither the Right or the Left are "good" or "evil". The situation with the Right is that recently there has been a concerted push to change the fundamental nature of our country and institute programs and policies that are in direct conflict with not only the spirit of the United States as established by the fathers of this country but also to modify and abridge the Constitution to better suit their vision. Perhaps this is justified in that they represent a majority voice and the majority no longer think the principles on which America was founded are relevant and must be modified to work in accordance with today's society. That is a topic for debate and the whole point of our lengthy and convoluted political process.

The problem with the Right is, however, that while they are working and advocating for this change (which is fair and completely in line with the guiding principles of our country), they are doing so under false pretenses. They claim that they are supporting a return to "original" values when the changes and modifications they are advocating are completely opposite those that our country was founded upon. Just recently, a secret memo came to light that presumed the President of the United States had the power to change the law whenever it suited him for no other reason than he was President. This is in clear violation of the spirit of anti-Monarchy that led to the formation of this country. This is only one example. The Right is also attempting to turn any dissention or disagreement with thier policies into an "un-American" action. Our country has always prided itself on the right of every citizen to speak out against our government when they feel compelled to do so, in fact, as Thomas Jefferson said, "The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive. " There is now afoot an obvious attempt to discredit the opinions and voices of those who speak against the Bush administration by labelling them "liberal" or "activists" or "unpatriotic" instead of acknowledging the right and duty of their citizenship, which is to boldy state their disagreements and demand accountability or education. This is the only "evil" the Right has done, an attempt to discredit not the arguments made against them, but the very right people have to make those arguments at all.

DP

So the right is evil? Before I even get into all that the right does, I will ask you this: so if the right is evil than the left must be good, is this correct to you? Than how could what is right tolerate the greatest evil of all against the most vulnerable beings on earth: unborn babies. The left's toleration and insistance of aborting helpless little children just proves that the left wing is evil and that the right, being so eager to help these left fortunate children and adopt them and care for them just proves that the right is, pardon the wording of this, right.
You mean to say that it is ok to kill innocent civilians (men, women, and CHILDREN) in Iraq in an unjust, immoral, and illegal war but we must spare the innocent child yet unborn? You have your priorities messed up big time. If this is the "right" vision, then you are blind.

I've always been confused by the assertion that oil is a very limited finite resource. I may be wrong but isn't it widely thought that oil is what remains from the decaying matter of long-dead things? At what point did things stop dying?

The left's toleration and insistance of aborting helpless little children just proves that the left wing is evil and that the right, being so eager to help these left fortunate children and adopt them and care for them just proves that the right is, pardon the wording of this, right.Okay, who the HELL "insists" on aborting babies. The sides are pro-life (you and your peers, which oddly enough happen to be all male) and pro-CHOICE. Noone is going around saying, "You're pregnant?! HAVE AN ABORTION NOW!!!" Thats the main problem with the abortion issue, most people don't even seem to understand the issue well enough to make an informed decision.

No matter how many liberals clog up internet forums, and the real world is a conservative world. This generation is the most conservative one ever, according to several polls asking high school and college students, even when they are being indoctrinated by their liberal professors!

This hostility against Bush is nothing new, throughout the history of America people have been hostile against the President and always spreading rumors and lies (or sometimes the truth, when it comes to a bad president like Clinton) about them. Kerry is unfit for any sort of power. All of this talk about Bush being a moron and an oil-hungry imperialist are absolute lies and I have proof. If Bush wants to rule the world's oil supplies or keep getting rich of his "Texas oil wells" :roll: than he would be keeping America out of all oil-rich countries to keep the price of "his oil" up, it doesn't take any one above a moron to realize that when there is more of something it will cost less. Bush is far from perfect and he may come across as stupid, but he is still a great relief from Clinton and merely one of those smart people who prefer written tests to oral tests, so he isn't very quick with words.

It is difficult to deny (although not impossible, as the left wing has proven) this: Carter ruined the country, Reagan rescued it, George Bush senior. didn't really do anything better or worse, Clinton ruined the country, and George Bush Jr. is well on his way to fixing this country again. People like you leftists are listening to your own enemies (as Americans) for propoganda. Evil does not bother the left and the truth holds no meaning for them.


First off, sir, professors do not "indoctrinate", save for perhaps trying to stimulate a student to become a tolerant, deep thinker. Liberalism is the concept of being open-minded, of being an intellectual. The liberal is always looking for ways to better serve the people. Conservatives, by contrast, want to retain the "old ways". At the core of their philopsophy is a sort of social Darwinism that is a relic of the civilized world. If you do not know what social Darwinism is, I can provide a definition (lots of people DON'T know what it is).

Second, Bill Clinton was a GOOD president, and I will explain to you why I think that. His eight years in office were some of the best years, economically speaking, that we've ever had. Don't give me that Republican-line claim that it was the Reagan-Bush reforms that fixed the economy...Clinton sustained this growth for BOTH of his terms. He took a moderate, respectable approach to managing the economy. Despite his affair with Monica Lewinsky, he was nevertheless an intelligent man...a Rhodes scholar for God's sake. He became reknowned among the community of world leaders for his attention to detail and willingness to tackle problems head-on. It was often said that, going into a crisis between two hostile nations, Bill Clinton often knew more about what was going on than they themselves knew! He made it his responsibility to know. He may not have been perfect (Thanks to his own mistakes and an insatiable thirst on the Republican's behalf to smear him), but he was good at being the President.

Regarding your oil well comments, that is true to a point. However, you neglected to take into account the "supply" portion of supply and demand. It is true that, as more of an item appears on the market, the price per item unit often drops...however, if you control a larger portion of the total SUPPLY, you can choose to release less to the market and hence drive up prices. Hence, if I can control 50% of the worlds total oil reserves instead of, say, 15%, I can still make more money by RESTRICTING the amount of oil that comes out of my lands. Your man Bush's oil friends have been doing this for several years now...just as Enron gouged California by shutting down power plants to constrict the supply, so too is the oil industry. THEY are shutting down refineries to create a production bottleneck and drive up prices.

Finally, and most importantly...

How dare you suggest that evil and truth hold no weight with the Left. :evil: I am a member of the Left, and I advocate the policies that I do BECAUSE I see them as the moral, ethical things to do. I won't go into the abortion arena with you, because I have not been able to come to a solid decision on that for myself yet. But you conservatives do TERRIBLE things in the name of "what's right"! You try to write your Bibles into Constitutional law because you're SURE that they are the the uncontested words of God. You deny gay people the right to marry based on YOUR interpretation of a book that was written some hundreds of years ago, in the process wreaking horrible psychological wounds. Your kind makes these people feel like they are not on par with other American citizens. It's an outrage.

How dare you attack Jimmy Carter. Carter was a good man...a GOOD man! Probably among the most moral men to ever hold the presidency. Too GOOD for the presidency in fact. It was not his fault that all these bad things happened on his watch. To this day he works tirelessly in the service of charities and groups like Habitat for Humanity. Your man Bush, meanwhile, is busy meeting with all sorts of executives to sell out national policy to the highest bidder and using strong-arm tactics to crush dissent. I can provide examples if you wish.

I'm not listening to America's enemies. I think some Americans such as you ARE the enemy! No force outside of this country will ever destroy us. It's the apathy and greed and hypocrisy WITHIN that poses a mortal threat to our cherished democracy, our FREEDOM! Open your mind, man, and truly question not only why you believe what you believe, but also why -I- believe what I believe. Only when you begin to question will you understand the true glory of our nation, the intent the Founding Fathers had. Only then will you receive their gift, the greatest gift mortal men can give.

No matter how many liberals clog up internet forums, and the real world is a conservative world. This generation is the most conservative one ever, according to several polls asking high school and college students, even when they are being indoctrinated by their liberal professors!

This hostility against Bush is nothing new, throughout the history of America people have been hostile against the President and always spreading rumors and lies (or sometimes the truth, when it comes to a bad president like Clinton) about them. Kerry is unfit for any sort of power. All of this talk about Bush being a moron and an oil-hungry imperialist are absolute lies and I have proof. If Bush wants to rule the world's oil supplies or keep getting rich of his "Texas oil wells" :roll: than he would be keeping America out of all oil-rich countries to keep the price of "his oil" up, it doesn't take any one above a moron to realize that when there is more of something it will cost less. Bush is far from perfect and he may come across as stupid, but he is still a great relief from Clinton and merely one of those smart people who prefer written tests to oral tests, so he isn't very quick with words.

It is difficult to deny (although not impossible, as the left wing has proven) this: Carter ruined the country, Reagan rescued it, George Bush senior. didn't really do anything better or worse, Clinton ruined the country, and George Bush Jr. is well on his way to fixing this country again. People like you leftists are listening to your own enemies (as Americans) for propoganda. Evil does not bother the left and the truth holds no meaning for them.


First off, sir, professors do not "indoctrinate", save for perhaps trying to stimulate a student to become a tolerant, deep thinker. Liberalism is the concept of being open-minded, of being an intellectual. The liberal is always looking for ways to better serve the people. Conservatives, by contrast, want to retain the "old ways". At the core of their philopsophy is a sort of social Darwinism that is a relic of the civilized world. If you do not know what social Darwinism is, I can provide a definition (lots of people DON'T know what it is).

Second, Bill Clinton was a GOOD president, and I will explain to you why I think that. His eight years in office were some of the best years, economically speaking, that we've ever had. Don't give me that Republican-line claim that it was the Reagan-Bush reforms that fixed the economy...Clinton sustained this growth for BOTH of his terms. He took a moderate, respectable approach to managing the economy. Despite his affair with Monica Lewinsky, he was nevertheless an intelligent man...a Rhodes scholar for God's sake. He became reknowned among the community of world leaders for his attention to detail and willingness to tackle problems head-on. It was often said that, going into a crisis between two hostile nations, Bill Clinton often knew more about what was going on than they themselves knew! He made it his responsibility to know. He may not have been perfect (Thanks to his own mistakes and an insatiable thirst on the Republican's behalf to smear him), but he was good at being the President.

Regarding your oil well comments, that is true to a point. However, you neglected to take into account the "supply" portion of supply and demand. It is true that, as more of an item appears on the market, the price per item unit often drops...however, if you control a larger portion of the total SUPPLY, you can choose to release less to the market and hence drive up prices. Hence, if I can control 50% of the worlds total oil reserves instead of, say, 15%, I can still make more money by RESTRICTING the amount of oil that comes out of my lands. Your man Bush's oil friends have been doing this for several years now...just as Enron gouged California by shutting down power plants to constrict the supply, so too is the oil industry. THEY are shutting down refineries to create a production bottleneck and drive up prices.

Finally, and most importantly...

How dare you suggest that evil and truth hold no weight with the Left. :evil: I am a member of the Left, and I advocate the policies that I do BECAUSE I see them as the moral, ethical things to do. I won't go into the abortion arena with you, because I have not been able to come to a solid decision on that for myself yet. But you conservatives do TERRIBLE things in the name of "what's right"! You try to write your Bibles into Constitutional law because you're SURE that they are the the uncontested words of God. You deny gay people the right to marry based on YOUR interpretation of a book that was written some hundreds of years ago, in the process wreaking horrible psychological wounds. Your kind makes these people feel like they are not on par with other American citizens. It's an outrage.

How dare you attack Jimmy Carter. Carter was a good man...a GOOD man! Probably among the most moral men to ever hold the presidency. Too GOOD for the presidency in fact. It was not his fault that all these bad things happened on his watch. To this day he works tirelessly in the service of charities and groups like Habitat for Humanity. Your man Bush, meanwhile, is busy meeting with all sorts of executives to sell out national policy to the highest bidder and using strong-arm tactics to crush dissent. I can provide examples if you wish.

I'm not listening to America's enemies. I think some Americans such as you ARE the enemy! No force outside of this country will ever destroy us. It's the apathy and greed and hypocrisy WITHIN that poses a mortal threat to our cherished democracy, our FREEDOM! Open your mind, man, and truly question not only why you believe what you believe, but also why -I- believe what I believe. Only when you begin to question will you understand the true glory of our nation, the intent the Founding Fathers had. Only then will you receive their gift, the greatest gift mortal men can give.

So the right is evil? Before I even get into all that the right does, I will ask you this: so if the right is evil than the left must be good, is this correct to you? Than how could what is right tolerate the greatest evil of all against the most vulnerable beings on earth: unborn babies. The left's toleration and insistance of aborting helpless little children just proves that the left wing is evil and that the right, being so eager to help these left fortunate children and adopt them and care for them just proves that the right is, pardon the wording of this, right.

First off the left isn't pro abortion, they're pro CHOICE. (The majority of them.)

Secondly there are pro-choice right wingers too, like Ayn Rand.

Lastly abortion isn't murder and anyone who claims it is is really just ignorant. If you want to start another abortion thread be my guest, I'm not mentioning it again in this thread.

I've always been confused by the assertion that oil is a very limited finite resource. I may be wrong but isn't it widely thought that oil is what remains from the decaying matter of long-dead things? At what point did things stop dying?

Decaying matter becomes oil (and coal) after millions of years and intense heat and pressure (for coal). Things didn't stop dying, but they didn't die long enough ago to be useful as a fossil fuel. There is a limited amount of fossil fuels, and we only have about 50 years left at our current rate of consumption.

First off the left isn't pro abortion, they're pro CHOICE. (The majority of them.)
Whats the difference, besides trying to sugarcoat the issue?

First off the left isn't pro abortion, they're pro CHOICE. (The majority of them.)
Whats the difference, besides trying to sugarcoat the issue?

Here's the difference. Personally, if I could make the decision for everybody, nobody would ever have an abortion. I think all life (not just human life, but all life) is precious. I would never be party to more death than has to happen. But, as I said earlier, this is my personal feeling. It is utterly inappropriate to force other people to agree with my personal beliefs. I cannot say with any certainty that my position is correct; there is no objective way to show that either side is right or wrong. I refuse to force my thoughts on an uncertain issue on other people, because I recognize that I am not infallible and that no man ever was or ever will be (and no book, for that matter).

What's the difference?

I'm against abortion. If I knew someone that was going to have an abortion, I'd do whatever I could to talk them out of it.

But I'm not going to make it illegal.

That's the difference.