NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok here we go..Our Society is a mess, especially the US.

Think about it, we seem to think that if it feels good, do it. It doesnt occur to us that if we have sex with that person, we could get STD's, an unwanted pregnancy, or many other compilcations.

The music our children listen to is nothing but garbage. Most of these rap songs are the same: do drugs, have sex, shoot cops. That is the rap industry in a nutshell. Why, the other day i was listening to the radio, and a song about a guy having sex with two women suddenly came on. I believe in freedom of speech too, but when you got a guy who raps about how much his life sucks, how his mom is a bitch and he hates her, and how he's gonna shoot his ex-wife, that kinda stuff is crazy! Some claim these lyrics are just artistic expression, but when Eminem raps how he's gonna rape his own mom...I ask you, what sort of symbolism is this?

It used to be.. in the days of I Love Lucy, that the word "pregnant could not even be uttered. Now, we have Janet Jackson practically stripping on live TV (yeah, suit malfuntion..the WHOLE thing was supposed to come off lol :lol: :wink: ). Almost every single movie has to have a steamy sex scene to get good ratings. Matrix Reloaded was an awesome movie, but the ten minutes of sex really was not nessecary at all.

This is gonna come back and haunt us. When I'm hanging out, I hear my little brother's 9-year old friend call his sister a "lesbian" because she was acting stupid. He knew what it meant...when I was that age, I was sheltered from this sort of stuff...

People, we have to realize that this "ghetto culture" that young people are raving about is really being made up by some 70-year-old billionare who really doesn't give a damn on how it will affect kids. We cannot tolerate Janet Jackson exposing herself, or D12 (Eminem's band) telling our kids to get drunk and high.

Now to start on the more politcal aspect of media. Most everything we see on TV or read in the paper or magazine is given to us by the liberal media. Why does Bush look like an idiot. Maybe he is one...or the media is making him look moronic. They control what we do and don't see. This whole Prisoner abuse issue...it was reported back in JANUARY...but of course it isn't a story unless their are pictures. According to a guy I heard on the radio (Sean Hannity show, i tuned in during the middle of the convo, so i unfortuanatley cannot tell you who it was) his group gathered movies of Sadaam's tourtures, which, I assure you, was much worse than putting underpants on a naked man's head. Only one out of all the news groups they gave these video's too showed any of it...and it was a French News Orginization.

But then you see, you kinda get yourself in a bind. If you look for news from the major news affiliates..you'll get the liberal side of it. But then if you listen to Sean Hannitey, Mike Savage etc. You get the conservitive story.

Either way, you cannot get the straight facts...

WOW... I feel a lot better now :lol:

Any and all comments are accepted and encouraged and will be read by an open mind...

And they call us Brits puritans . . . :lol:

:lol: .. yeah I was raised Catholic and i go to a Catholic high school, so it kinda rubs off on ya

Ah yes, everything is evil and the liberals are to blame. So enlightening.

Ah yes, everything is evil and the liberals are to blame. So enlightening.
I think he is being nostalgic rather than blaming all liberals. You are judging rather quickly.

Ok here we go..Our Society is a mess, especially the US.

All I got out of this was...

YOU RHYMED!

Ok here we go..Our Society is a mess, especially the US.

All I got out of this was...

YOU RHYMED!

Whoa..... I did...that's pretty nifty!

Ok here we go..Our Society is a mess, especially the US.

All I got out of this was...

YOU RHYMED!

Whoa..... I did...that's pretty nifty!

I really did not feel like reading it. I do agree with you (from what I read), but I think a better education system would help this problem.

This is gonna come back and haunt us. When I'm hanging out, I hear my little brother's 9-year old friend call his sister a "lesbian" because she was acting stupid. He knew what it meant...when I was that age, I was sheltered from this sort of stuff...


Can you say bigot? What's wrong with children knowing about homosexuals? What the hell is wrong with you?! There is nothing wrong with homosexuality, so you can not "shelter" someone from it. If you want to protect your kids from these things, maybe you should watch what the watch, listen to what they listen to. You can also teach them to hate just like you do.

Ah yes, everything is evil and the liberals are to blame. So enlightening.
I think he is being nostalgic rather than blaming all liberals. You are judging rather quickly.

IR shame :cry:

It's OK, I know it's easy to get flame-shell-shock from all the n00b threads you get. Then a half decent one comes along, and your finger is already on the trigger while it's still a movement in the corner of your eye. :lol:

It's not the media's fault that television is in the state it's in. It's a combination of the audiences and the government; the government for wanting to regulate, and the audiences for wanting it.

This is gonna come back and haunt us. When I'm hanging out, I hear my little brother's 9-year old friend call his sister a "lesbian" because she was acting stupid. He knew what it meant...when I was that age, I was sheltered from this sort of stuff...


Can you say bigot? What's wrong with children knowing about homosexuals? What the hell is wrong with you?! There is nothing wrong with homosexuality, so you can not "shelter" someone from it. If you want to protect your kids from these things, maybe you should watch what the watch, listen to what they listen to. You can also teach them to hate just like you do.

I'm Sorry dude (dudette), i didn't mean it in THAT context. His sister IS NOT a lesbian, yet he knew in this day and age, calling someone "gay" is derogatory. I am not against gays, I just disapprove of the lifestyle. I view it as a disorder of hormones or somesuch. Hate the sin not the sinner, get what I'm saying?

Either way...you're still a bigot. There is nothing wrong with that lifestyle. You say that you have nothing against them, and don't appreciate people using homosexuality in a derogatory way, but then you just go and say that you don't aprove of it. You're still a hater.

Listen buddy, I am not a bigot. What is wrong is that it is unnatural. I don't have a problem with the actual people, although as it is, I have never met a openly gay person personally. I don't approve of it, but it's choice. You can choose to engage in homosexual acts or not. If you wanna cuddle with a member of your own sex, fine by me, just don't go all public and crazy about it.

The only gays I have a problem with are 1. The gays that assume everyone ELSE is gay and 2. The ones that flaunt it like it is some sort of new shirt.

As I see homosexuality as a disorder, I think it cruel to make fun of someone's problems. To call someone "gay" in a deregotory fashion is insulting not only to the recipiant of the insult, but also to the community of homosexuals in the sense that thier problem is a subject of riducule.

Listen buddy, I am not a bigot. What is wrong is that it is unnatural. I don't have a problem with the actual people, although as it is, I have never met a openly gay person personally. I don't approve of it, but it's choice. You can choose to engage in homosexual acts or not. If you wanna cuddle with a member of your own sex, fine by me, just don't go all public and crazy about it.

The only gays I have a problem with are 1. The gays that assume everyone ELSE is gay and 2. The ones that flaunt it like it is some sort of new shirt.

As I see homosexuality as a disorder, I think it cruel to make fun of someone's problems. To call someone "gay" in a deregotory fashion is insulting not only to the recipiant of the insult, but also to the community of homosexuals in the sense that thier problem is a subject of riducule.
problem? wth are you?

*coughbigotcough*
You listen here, buddy, by thinking that homosexuality is some kind of disorder or something that is unnartural you are a bigot and a homophobe. To a gay person, what you are saying is highly offensive. Why should homosexuals have to hide who they are? What's wrong with being gay? It seems perfectly natural to some people.

why is your text in blue?

Either way...you're still a bigot. There is nothing wrong with that lifestyle. You say that you have nothing against them, and don't appreciate people using homosexuality in a derogatory way, but then you just go and say that you don't aprove of it. You're still a hater.
I think you are being unnecessarily hostile here. Precisely what he is pointedly not doing. Personally, I view homosexuality with some distaste, but I do not treat people any differently because of it. That does not make me a "hater". Simply someone, who like all humans, has limits to what he can accept given his world view, but recognises that this should not manifest itself in anti-social behaviour. I find it deeply ironic that you are being the judgemental one here. I do not presume to judge an individual for their lifestyle, and yet you stand ready to attack one for a vague opinion of it.

Mikatopia is quite correct to be dismayed by someone using such words as insults. I have done it myself, it really is not nice. You seem to be attacking him not for his disliking of such use of language, but the motives behind that dislike. Evidently, one must not only dislike homophobic insults, one must also have socially acceptable reasons for disliking them.

Just how silly is that?

why is your text in blue?

it just is, the mysterious ways of NS are not known to newbs such as yourself :P

But... we didn't evolve in such a fashion that two males could reproduce... how is homosexuality natural?

I think the real test of tolerance is being tolerant of the intolerant, don't you? :)

Ok, you guys are not haters. Whatever you would like to think...
But I am bisexual, and I don't think I have a disease or disorder or anything a long those lines. I do not appreiciate being looked down on with "distaste" or "unnatural." I don't think I should have to hide who I am, and I do not believe I am a threat to children. I am offended by being called any of those things.

Ok how old are you? ;)

I hope you are not going on about the 50's being an age of moral camelot?

Let's see the wonders of the 50s(in no particular order):
1) Senetor Joe McCarthy and the BlackLists
2) Women knew their place and stayed home and cooked for their man!
3) Quoting some of my Cracker Relatives. Sorry if it offends. "Niggers knew their place"
4) Ike starts the Pledge fight by introducing "Under God"
5) Jazz was viewed the same way we view Rap today.
6) Drugs were going on at the time. Maybe not as much as today but they were going on.
7) STDs are very old. They happened then as well.
8) Fags stayed in the closet or they tried to be cured with electroshock.
9) News media actually had a little more truth to it as they were not run by corporations.
10) Ahhh hell that is enough but you should get the point that the 50's were F'd up in their own way as much as it is now. People are people.
They do stupid things all the time.

Times are far better now then ever. When I was a kid, a black-white couple would get stared at and the black guy stood a chance of getting beat. Now, now body looks twice. Well maybe the South they still do. ;)

Liberal Media? Eh just a term conservatives like to use when the news is not what they want to hear. The media is run by corporations and they are only concerned about profit. If it's liberal then it is selling.

As to getting facts. Well that does take effort. For US events I tend to read the Washington Post as they seem to bash everybody.

For world events, you can't beat the BBC.

But you can also review the extreamists as well: Fox News. Al-Jazeria(sp- Fox News for Arabs). I do review CNN but I find the will not run something if they think it will offend.

phew! ;)

LOL , I liked the cough 3P..I remember when I used to do that...good times, good times...

I am not trying to be offensive. I am merely trying to state my opinion.

Homosexuality is indeed an unnatural act. Now I don't want to have to explain sex to you, but the general principle is : the male sex organ and the female sex organ go together. Lets say you have a plug for a lamp. Now when you look around , you see that the plug is shaped to enter the electrial outlet. When the two coincide, light is made. But two plugs... that doesn't fit.

I would like for you to explain to me in what way is homosexuality natural. Men are not meant to have sex with men, women with women. That is not how things work. The male and female sex organs are meant to go together. That is the way things work.

As for gay expression: if someone comes out of the closet..thats ok with me, as long as they don't act so flaymboyant about it (ie Queer Eye for the Straight Guy).

I merely think of it as maybe too much of one hormone. I don't think gays are going to hell (unlike many others of my faith), and as I already stated, I really have no ill will toward them...

TO ALL WHO HAVE BEEN OFFENDED BY MY POSTS: I apologize, I am but human, and what I say is how I feel. Regardless what I say on this subject, some one is going to get offended.

Gee...thanks for the sex lesson. Now I get it.
Some people are just naturally attrackted to members of the same sex. Just because you aren't, dosen't mean that they can't.

Ok, you guys are not haters. Whatever you would like to think...
But I am bisexual, and I don't think I have a disease or disorder or anything a long those lines. I do not appreiciate being looked down on with "distaste" or "unnatural." I don't think I should have to hide who I am, and I do not believe I am a threat to children. I am offended by being called any of those things.
No-one said you were a threat. Look at it this way, many people look upon Republicans with distaste. Or Democrats. Or Catholics or Protestants. Or people who live in a suburb and drive a 3-tonne truck. Or people who choose to live in a commune and raise pigs. There are countless lifestyle choices out there, one cannot expect everyone to have unquestioning respect for all of them. Sometimes, people will disagree, maybe quite strongly and passionately, but as long as this does not manifest itself in actual oppression, they are entitled to it.

Either way...you're still a bigot. There is nothing wrong with that lifestyle. You say that you have nothing against them, and don't appreciate people using homosexuality in a derogatory way, but then you just go and say that you don't aprove of it. You're still a hater.
I think you are being unnecessarily hostile here. Precisely what he is pointedly not doing. Personally, I view homosexuality with some distaste, but I do not treat people any differently because of it. That does not make me a "hater". Simply someone, who like all humans, has limits to what he can accept given his world view, but recognises that this should not manifest itself in anti-social behaviour. I find it deeply ironic that you are being the judgemental one here. I do not presume to judge an individual for their lifestyle, and yet you stand ready to attack one for a vague opinion of it.

Mikatopia is quite correct to be dismayed by someone using such words as insults. I have done it myself, it really is not nice. You seem to be attacking him not for his disliking of such use of language, but the motives behind that dislike. Evidently, one must not only dislike homophobic insults, one must also have socially acceptable reasons for disliking them.

Just how silly is that?

Whew Thank God for You TG. You saved my ass


Black Forrest: I'm 14, im a soph in High school (my b-day is late), and actually i view the 50's as a catalyst for the current social problems today.

What I'm saying is, it wasn't my choice. This is just who I am, so I would appreiciate it if people would stop acting like I'm some immoral person with a social disease or something like that.

*hey, I was 14 when I was a sophmore too!*

From a foriegn perspective, the US media is hardly liberal!

3P, Im sorry if I offended you, it was not my intention.

I don't view bisexuals, homosexuals etc. to be immoral...I just view it as a different culture. Kinda like...China (sorry about the comparison)..I don't understand everything they do (the whole dog eating thing, communism etc.) but that doesn't mean it is wrong.

Because the rest of the world is more "culturally enlightened" than us stupid backwater Americans, clinging to our antiquated ideas of morality and whatnot. Right.

Homosexuality is indeed an unnatural act. Now I don't want to have to explain sex to you, but the general principle is : the male sex organ and the female sex organ go together. Lets say you have a plug for a lamp. Now when you look around , you see that the plug is shaped to enter the electrial outlet. When the two coincide, light is made. But two plugs... that doesn't fit.
[/i]).


Unnatural act is a matter of definition. If homosexual acts exist in nature, does that make it unnatural?

You might read about the Bonobo before you start with "Unnatural"

If you want human history. Look at the Romans and the Greeks.

As to your outlet analogy, well I could make a few comments but that would probably get a smack by the mods! :wink:

Yes, the world, specifically western culture, has a great history of homosexuality and bisexuality!

Homosexuality is indeed an unnatural act. Now I don't want to have to explain sex to you, but the general principle is : the male sex organ and the female sex organ go together. Lets say you have a plug for a lamp. Now when you look around , you see that the plug is shaped to enter the electrial outlet. When the two coincide, light is made. But two plugs... that doesn't fit.
[/i]).


Unnatural act is a matter of definition. If homosexual acts exist in nature, does that make it unnatural?

You might read about the Bonobo before you start with "Unnatural"

If you want human history. Look at the Romans and the Greeks.

As to your outlet analogy, well I could make a few comments but that would probably get a smack by the mods! :wink:

the bonobos will *try* to screw anything :P

Because the rest of the world is more "culturally enlightened" than us stupid backwater Americans, clinging to our antiquated ideas of morality and whatnot. Right.

Yup. We just can't seem to erase the Hypocracy and Myths of the Puritans(English Seperatists).

As to your outlet analogy, well I could make a few comments but that would probably get a smack by the mods! :wink:
I once read that a Russian Cosmonaut, probably on one of the second-generation Salyut stations, was reprimanded for overly enthusiastic commentary during a docking procedure. :o

Listen buddy, I am not a bigot. What is wrong is that it is unnatural.

How is homosexuality "unnatural"?, homosexuality is very common throughout many other animal species.

The only gays I have a problem with are 1. The gays that assume everyone ELSE is gay

Since when do some homosexuals think that everyone else is gay?

As I see homosexuality as a disorder, I think it cruel to make fun of someone's problems.

How is homosexuality a disorder? Lifestyle, yes. Disorder, no. Does homosexuality make your life more difficult, or affect your life at all?

As to your outlet analogy, well I could make a few comments but that would probably get a smack by the mods! :wink:
I once read that a Russian Cosmonaut, probably on one of the second-generation Salyut stations, was reprimanded for overly enthusiastic commentary during a docking procedure. :o

My virgin mind does not understand what you are talking about! :P

Funny story though! :D

The only gays I have a problem with are 1. The gays that assume everyone ELSE is gay
Since when do some homosexuals think that everyone else is gay?
You do get some weird perv trolls who maintain that everyone else is simply repressed and in denial. :?

The only gays I have a problem with are 1. The gays that assume everyone ELSE is gay
Since when do some homosexuals think that everyone else is gay?
You do get some weird perv trolls who maintain that everyone else is simply repressed and in denial. :?

The key word being 'some' off course.

Okaay, let's try to get back on topic here, or this will evolve to yet another gay debate thread, of which even I am beginning to get sick of.

I noticed in your rant that while there was lots of anger at the increase of sex in culture but nearly nothing about violence. Yes, Matrix Reloaded did have 10 minutes of sex scene it also had 2 hours of never-ending violence. Are naked boobies really worse than people randomly maiming and killing each other?!

No, I don't think we should censure violent movies, I'm just saying that people don't seem to have any perspective when they say things like "Ooh! She showed her breast for 2 seconds, how immoral!!!"

Okaay, let's try to get back on topic here, or this will evolve to yet another gay debate thread, of which even I am beginning to get sick of.

I noticed in your rant that while there was lots of anger at the increase of sex in culture but nearly nothing about violence. Yes, Matrix Reloaded did have 10 minutes of sex scene it also had 2 hours of never-ending violence. Are naked boobies really worse than people randomly maiming and killing each other?!

No, I don't think we should censure violent movies, I'm just saying that people don't seem to have any perspective when they say things like "Ooh! She showed her breast for 2 seconds, how immoral!!!"

yeah, i was wondering about that too...we shouldn't have sex or drink, but killing people is fine! gimme a break.

personally i think our media is too conservative, and that's the whole problem. showing a boob is still a big deal, which it shouldn't be; it's just a freaking breast, people. sex isn't dirty or wrong, and there's nothing wrong with kids knowing about sex. hell, i would far rather keep children ignorant about violence than about sex. drugs are a personal choice, and if you haven't raised your kids well enough to keep them from obeying orders from rap CDs then they probably need some pot just to get through the day with you.

kids were drinking and doing drugs and having sex too young loooooooong before modern media, and they'll keep doing it long after...it's about rebelion and being young, and every generation of parents tries to blame it on something else. it's not the fault of the media, or rock and roll, or swing culture, so quit trying to ruin entertainment for the rest of us just because you think you've raised a little media zombie who will go out and do whatever MTV says.

if your kid really is that stupid then i'm sorry but i think that child is broken already, and turning off the TV won't make much difference. but if you actually think your kids are semi-intelligent then maybe you should consider that they know the difference between a TV and God, so they only pay attention when one of them gives orders. let them watch what they want, then discuss it if you like, and you'll notice that your child exhibits a feature that distinguishes humans from other animal life: the ability for abstract critical thinking. it's neat to watch, try it some time.

Okaay, let's try to get back on topic here, or this will evolve to yet another gay debate thread, of which even I am beginning to get sick of.

I noticed in your rant that while there was lots of anger at the increase of sex in culture but nearly nothing about violence. Yes, Matrix Reloaded did have 10 minutes of sex scene it also had 2 hours of never-ending violence. Are naked boobies really worse than people randomly maiming and killing each other?!

No, I don't think we should censure violent movies, I'm just saying that people don't seem to have any perspective when they say things like "Ooh! She showed her breast for 2 seconds, how immoral!!!"

yeah, i was wondering about that too...we shouldn't have sex or drink, but killing people is fine! gimme a break.

personally i think our media is too conservative, and that's the whole problem. showing a boob is still a big deal, which it shouldn't be; it's just a freaking breast, people. sex isn't dirty or wrong, and there's nothing wrong with kids knowing about sex. hell, i would far rather keep children ignorant about violence than about sex. drugs are a personal choice, and if you haven't raised your kids well enough to keep them from obeying orders from rap CDs then they probably need some pot just to get through the day with you.

kids were drinking and doing drugs and having sex too young loooooooong before modern media, and they'll keep doing it long after...it's about rebelion and being young, and every generation of parents tries to blame it on something else. it's not the fault of the media, or rock and roll, or swing culture, so quit trying to ruin entertainment for the rest of us just because you think you've raised a little media zombie who will go out and do whatever MTV says.

if your kid really is that stupid then i'm sorry but i think that child is broken already, and turning off the TV won't make much difference. but if you actually think your kids are semi-intelligent then maybe you should consider that they know the difference between a TV and God, so they only pay attention when one of them gives orders. let them watch what they want, then discuss it if you like, and you'll notice that your child exhibits a feature that distinguishes humans from other animal life: the ability for abstract critical thinking. it's neat to watch, try it some time.

*Applauds*

Thank you! I get sick of parents that are constantly looking for scapegoats when their children get screwed up. Amazingly, the primary purpose of parents should be...parenting!

I see too many people today that really aren't fit to be parents, making me wish that there were more prerequisites for having children than some functional genital organs and a lucky break. I mean, isn't it odd that in many places you need a licence to own a dog, but introducing a human being into the world apparantly requires no qualification.

Mikatopia what you appear to be talking about is control of the media and of peoples sexual preferences, which is 1.) facist and 2.)impossible. from your previous threads i assume you are christian. the islamic states view YOU as being morally wrong and wish to wipe you out purely because of your life style choice.

unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your outlook) people have access to a much wider range information at a younger age. the age is falling and the volume of information is rising and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. as a US citizen do you not feel angry that successive governments have lied and cheated and with held important information at the expense of human life? information should be free because it encourages educated criticism and decreases the amount of uneducated critism. The child KNEW what lesbian meant and probably when he grows up and develops his own belief system he will accept lesbians as a part of society as opposed to the devil incarnate in the puritanical previous generations.

The state of the US and in fact the world cannot be laid at the door of the media, however corrupt and monopolised media plays a part in our apathetic and inhumane society becase it is used as a tool for control just like organised religion. control has gone too far and the public is beginning to rebuke it. to me it is plain to see that the current civilisation will collapse onits self before too long unless we become more accepting and less tolerant. what i mean by this contradiction is that we must accept the fact that people will live the way they want to live, regardless of how they are told to live, but we should not tolerate anyone who wishes to stop a person from having the lifestyle that they want. anarchy is the only way forward. people naturally have an instinct to protect each other and eventually that will prevail, in my opinon instances of mental disorders and personality problems would fall of people would follow their natual instincts. a caged animal is more dangerous than a free one. i have tried to be concise but i fear i may have compromised the coherence by trying tyo be economic, i would welcome opinion and suggestion

Mikatopia what you appear to be talking about is control of the media and of peoples sexual preferences, which is 1.) facist and 2.)impossible. from your previous threads i assume you are christian. the islamic states view YOU as being morally wrong and wish to wipe you out purely because of your life style choice.

unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your outlook) people have access to a much wider range information at a younger age. the age is falling and the volume of information is rising and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. as a US citizen do you not feel angry that successive governments have lied and cheated and with held important information at the expense of human life? information should be free because it encourages educated criticism and decreases the amount of uneducated critism. The child KNEW what lesbian meant and probably when he grows up and develops his own belief system he will accept lesbians as a part of society as opposed to the devil incarnate in the puritanical previous generations.

The state of the US and in fact the world cannot be laid at the door of the media, however corrupt and monopolised media plays a part in our apathetic and inhumane society becase it is used as a tool for control just like organised religion. control has gone too far and the public is beginning to rebuke it. to me it is plain to see that the current civilisation will collapse onits self before too long unless we become more accepting and less tolerant. what i mean by this contradiction is that we must accept the fact that people will live the way they want to live, regardless of how they are told to live, but we should not tolerate anyone who wishes to stop a person from having the lifestyle that they want. anarchy is the only way forward. people naturally have an instinct to protect each other and eventually that will prevail, in my opinon instances of mental disorders and personality problems would fall of people would follow their natual instincts. a caged animal is more dangerous than a free one. i have tried to be concise but i fear i may have compromised the coherence by trying tyo be economic, i would welcome opinion and suggestion


Hmmm...yeah, I guess thats another way of looking at it. Thanks for changing the subject away from homosexuality, I was running out of things to say. But you were wrong on one part. I have no desire to control sexuality, that's your issue, handle it asa you will, just don't bring me into it. And yes I do think the media should be controlled a bit more. Back in WW2 they didn't have cameras following you everywhere. The liberal media is using this war and the atrocities in it to get rid of Bush. Bush should have made everyone (news people any way) leave before things got crazy. Now it's too late and I fear the same is true for President Bush. Thanks for the input.

But you were wrong on one part. I have no desire to control sexuality, that's your issue, handle it as you will, just don't bring me into it.

"Don't bring me into it. I don't want to see it. Keep it away from me."
That doesn't sound like someone who doesn't want to control something.
How about just not looking?

The liberal media is using this war and the atrocities in it to get rid of Bush.

Typical paranoia.

From your original post I'd have sworn you were middle aged: My mum does the same thing now and again - goes on about how good everything was and bad it is now. I think it's ridiculous, but it's also the kind of thing I've done once or twice. We have a tendancy to rose tint the past, over look the bad stuff and focus on the good.

When the people in this forum are in their 40s they'll probably remember the turn of the century as being much better than the 2020's. I think the reaction at rap is hilarious though.

But you were wrong on one part. I have no desire to control sexuality, that's your issue, handle it as you will, just don't bring me into it.

"Don't bring me into it. I don't want to see it. Keep it away from me."
That doesn't sound like someone who doesn't want to control something.
How about just not looking?

The liberal media is using this war and the atrocities in it to get rid of Bush.

Typical paranoia.

Its kinda hard not to look when the through it in your face. For example , the Fab 5 from Queer Eye. I cannot stand them not because they are gay, but because they are just so flamboyant about it. I mean come on, when people act that way it gets old and stupid after awhile.

On the show Will and Grace, we have to be constantly reminded that certain characters are gay. Over and over again. That is really what the show is about.

I don't have a problem with homosexuals if they don't bother me. I don't understand how you view me as a facist just because I don't want to watch two guys making out when I walk down the street. I have the same feelings toward hertosexual couples making out in public. It makes them look slutty, even if that isn't the truth.


Cromotar: The whole concept of Reloaded was it was a war against man and machine, so obviously there will be violence. The sex usually never has any really meaning to the plot at all. Seeing Keanu Reeve's butt didn't change, help, or effect the plot whatsoever. If they wanted sex at all, they could have showed Neo and Trinity laying in bed together naked (covered by sheets of course) and we would assume sexual intercourse took place. In fact, you could cut the sex scene out all together and the movie would still make sense.

I don't approve of killing people, but if movies and video games want to show it, then the movie or game should have the proper rating. Parents shouldn't buy violent games for thier kids if they doubt the child's maturity.

Sex is not a bad thing. In fact, it is a wonderful thing. It is how Hollywood presents it. We are told that you can have sex with anyone you want. It shows sex as a game rather as the catalyst for creating new life and expressing your love to your partner. I am not saying that sex cannot be enjoyable, and I'm not saying it shouldn't. I think it should be saved for when the couple has come together as husband and wife. Sure, call me a prude, but when you think about it, the whole idea of absitnance is a good one. I cannot see anything wrong with it. First, you know your partner well enough to have made a vow of love for all time to them. Second, if you get pregant, at least you know who the father is. Third, STD's will be known beforehand intead of learning about it the next morning.

But you were wrong on one part. I have no desire to control sexuality, that's your issue, handle it as you will, just don't bring me into it.

"Don't bring me into it. I don't want to see it. Keep it away from me."
That doesn't sound like someone who doesn't want to control something.
How about just not looking?

The liberal media is using this war and the atrocities in it to get rid of Bush.

Typical paranoia.

Its kinda hard not to look when the through it in your face. For example , the Fab 5 from Queer Eye. I cannot stand them not because they are gay, but because they are just so flamboyant about it. I mean come on, when people act that way it gets old and stupid after awhile.

On the show Will and Grace, we have to be constantly reminded that certain characters are gay. Over and over again. That is really what the show is about.

You don't have to watch it you know?

I don't have a problem with homosexuals if they don't bother me. I don't understand how you view me as a facist just because I don't want to watch two guys making out when I walk down the street.

Where did I call you a fascist?

Mikatopia, I have to agree with the folks here about things not really being that much better in the 50's. Yes, maybe kids are worse now, but it's because they're actually being raised by the media more than they are by their parents anymore, but I digress.

The 50's were no picnic. There were unwed mothers and there was poverty, there was alcoholism and rape and murder. The only difference is that the media chose not to depict it, and that caused the public to follow suit.

Come to think of it, kids were a little better then, because they weren't bombarded with the stuff, but at the same time, it's not as if these things didn't happen before we had tv or film. It did. The turn of the 20th century had all of these things, as did every era of the past. Pretending that things were better when we didn't have to look at the problem is unrealistic.

I'm sorry Hakartopia , you are indeed right, you did not come out and call me a facist. But I felt it was implied when you said


"Don't bring me into it. I don't want to see it. Keep it away from me."
That doesn't sound like someone who doesn't want to control something.


Of course it is indeed concivable that I interepreted it wrong, and if that is the case, I am sorry. But from what I understand; facism is one of the greatest enemies of the gay lifestyle. Of course as I am not infallible in any way, I could be wrong..

Ok here we go..Our Society is a mess, especially the US.

:arrow: Let's see about that

Think about it, we seem to think that if it feels good, do it. It doesnt occur to us that if we have sex with that person, we could get STD's, an unwanted pregnancy, or many other compilcations.

:arrow: Agreed

The music our children listen to is nothing but garbage. Most of these rap songs are the same: do drugs, have sex, shoot cops. That is the rap industry in a nutshell. Why, the other day i was listening to the radio, and a song about a guy having sex with two women suddenly came on. I believe in freedom of speech too, but when you got a guy who raps about how much his life sucks, how his mom is a bitch and he hates her, and how he's gonna shoot his ex-wife, that kinda stuff is crazy! Some claim these lyrics are just artistic expression, but when Eminem raps how he's gonna rape his own mom...I ask you, what sort of symbolism is this?

:arrow: Unfortunatly...yes.....half-yes
Our generation has immediatly realized how lame Eminem is
And I don't listen too much to rap crap, but it doesn't matter. If the kids like the music, why not let them listen? Studies say that we learn better if we are exposed to the music we want to hear.

It used to be.. in the days of I Love Lucy, that the word "pregnant could not even be uttered. Now, we have Janet Jackson practically stripping on live TV (yeah, suit malfuntion..the WHOLE thing was supposed to come off lol :lol: :wink: ). Almost every single movie has to have a steamy sex scene to get good ratings. Matrix Reloaded was an awesome movie, but the ten minutes of sex really was not nessecary at all.

:arrow: Yeah...I didn't get the sex part. But what is wrong with people being open-minded about sex? At least we're learning about it at a younger age instead of parents not teaching their children at all.

This is gonna come back and haunt us. When I'm hanging out, I hear my little brother's 9-year old friend call his sister a "lesbian" because she was acting stupid. He knew what it meant...when I was that age, I was sheltered from this sort of stuff...

:arrow: Is this a problem? A vocabulary word is a problem? Maybe because it's reffering to a female sexuality preference is your only problem. Maybe you don't think 9yr olds should know what a lesbian is? Maybe you think that more 9yr olds should be sheltered from being open-minded too?

People, we have to realize that this "ghetto culture" that young people are raving about is really being made up by some 70-year-old billionare who really doesn't give a damn on how it will affect kids. We cannot tolerate Janet Jackson exposing herself, or D12 (Eminem's band) telling our kids to get drunk and high.

:arrow: It's a fad. It'll go away in a few years, thank gawd. So relax, grab a coke and sip it.

Now to start on the more politcal aspect of media. Most everything we see on TV or read in the paper or magazine is given to us by the liberal media. Why does Bush look like an idiot. Maybe he is one...or the media is making him look moronic. They control what we do and don't see. This whole Prisoner abuse issue...it was reported back in JANUARY...but of course it isn't a story unless their are pictures. According to a guy I heard on the radio (Sean Hannity show, i tuned in during the middle of the convo, so i unfortuanatley cannot tell you who it was) his group gathered movies of Sadaam's tourtures, which, I assure you, was much worse than putting underpants on a naked man's head. Only one out of all the news groups they gave these video's too showed any of it...and it was a French News Orginization.

:arrow: Umm....okay!

But then you see, you kinda get yourself in a bind. If you look for news from the major news affiliates..you'll get the liberal side of it. But then if you listen to Sean Hannitey, Mike Savage etc. You get the conservitive story.

Either way, you cannot get the straight facts...

WOW... I feel a lot better now :lol:

Any and all comments are accepted and encouraged and will be read by an open mind...

I'm sorry Hakartopia , you are indeed right, you did not come out and call me a facist. But I felt it was implied when you said


"Don't bring me into it. I don't want to see it. Keep it away from me."
That doesn't sound like someone who doesn't want to control something.


Of course it is indeed concivable that I interepreted it wrong, and if that is the case, I am sorry. But from what I understand; facism is one of the greatest enemies of the gay lifestyle. Of course as I am not infallible in any way, I could be wrong..

No it's not, fascism is a form of goverment. :p
You're thinking of nazism.

Mikatopia, I have to agree with the folks here about things not really being that much better in the 50's. Yes, maybe kids are worse now, but it's because they're actually being raised by the media more than they are by their parents anymore, but I digress.

The 50's were no picnic. There were unwed mothers and there was poverty, there was alcoholism and rape and murder. The only difference is that the media chose not to depict it, and that caused the public to follow suit.

Come to think of it, kids were a little better then, because they weren't bombarded with the stuff, but at the same time, it's not as if these things didn't happen before we had tv or film. It did. The turn of the 20th century had all of these things, as did every era of the past. Pretending that things were better when we didn't have to look at the problem is unrealistic.

Sir/M'am, I belive i stated earlier that I do not see the 50's as any sort of paradise. In fact, I see it as a catalyst for what is occuring now. The only thing that I see that was better about the 50s that I wish was true now: Support. I do not believe (I was not alive in the 50's) that the media encouraged young people to have sex like rabbits. I have yet to hear a song from the 50's that glorifies murder, rape, or sex. The unfortuante thing that young people don't realize is that, they are being used. My theory is that the mass media (not including ALL facets ) has been slowly encouraging a revolution against authority, which combined with natural teenage rebeliousness, sparked this new culture.

As it is..that is only my opinion, take it as you will.

Sir/M'am, I belive i stated earlier that I do not see the 50's as any sort of paradise. In fact, I see it as a catalyst for what is occuring now. The only thing that I see that was better about the 50s that I wish was true now: Support. I do not believe (I was not alive in the 50's) that the media encouraged young people to have sex like rabbits. I have yet to hear a song from the 50's that glorifies murder, rape, or sex. The unfortuante thing that young people don't realize is that, they are being used. My theory is that the mass media (not including ALL facets ) has been slowly encouraging a revolution against authority, which combined with natural teenage rebeliousness, sparked this new culture.

As it is..that is only my opinion, take it as you will.

There were plenty of songs in the 50's glorifying sex, it was just never openly stated. More along the lines of inuendo and euphemism. Maybe you just weren't listening.

Ok here we go..Our Society is a mess, especially the US.

Think about it, we seem to think that if it feels good, do it. It doesnt occur to us that if we have sex with that person, we could get STD's, an unwanted pregnancy, or many other compilcations.

The music our children listen to is nothing but garbage. Most of these rap songs are the same: do drugs, have sex, shoot cops. That is the rap industry in a nutshell. Why, the other day i was listening to the radio, and a song about a guy having sex with two women suddenly came on. I believe in freedom of speech too, but when you got a guy who raps about how much his life sucks, how his mom is a bitch and he hates her, and how he's gonna shoot his ex-wife, that kinda stuff is crazy! Some claim these lyrics are just artistic expression, but when Eminem raps how he's gonna rape his own mom...I ask you, what sort of symbolism is this?

It used to be.. in the days of I Love Lucy, that the word "pregnant could not even be uttered. Now, we have Janet Jackson practically stripping on live TV (yeah, suit malfuntion..the WHOLE thing was supposed to come off lol :lol: :wink: ). Almost every single movie has to have a steamy sex scene to get good ratings. Matrix Reloaded was an awesome movie, but the ten minutes of sex really was not nessecary at all.

This is gonna come back and haunt us. When I'm hanging out, I hear my little brother's 9-year old friend call his sister a "lesbian" because she was acting stupid. He knew what it meant...when I was that age, I was sheltered from this sort of stuff...

People, we have to realize that this "ghetto culture" that young people are raving about is really being made up by some 70-year-old billionare who really doesn't give a damn on how it will affect kids. We cannot tolerate Janet Jackson exposing herself, or D12 (Eminem's band) telling our kids to get drunk and high.

Now to start on the more politcal aspect of media. Most everything we see on TV or read in the paper or magazine is given to us by the liberal media. Why does Bush look like an idiot. Maybe he is one...or the media is making him look moronic. They control what we do and don't see. This whole Prisoner abuse issue...it was reported back in JANUARY...but of course it isn't a story unless their are pictures. According to a guy I heard on the radio (Sean Hannity show, i tuned in during the middle of the convo, so i unfortuanatley cannot tell you who it was) his group gathered movies of Sadaam's tourtures, which, I assure you, was much worse than putting underpants on a naked man's head. Only one out of all the news groups they gave these video's too showed any of it...and it was a French News Orginization.

But then you see, you kinda get yourself in a bind. If you look for news from the major news affiliates..you'll get the liberal side of it. But then if you listen to Sean Hannitey, Mike Savage etc. You get the conservitive story.

Either way, you cannot get the straight facts...

WOW... I feel a lot better now :lol:

Any and all comments are accepted and encouraged and will be read by an open mind...

You know what the simple truth is?

If you dont like it...dont listen to it.

You dont have any control over what my child watches on television..(If I had a child that is...)
So, why dont you leave that up to the parents?

Wich is worse, a twelve year old lkid listening to Eminem,
Or, some forty year old man telling us all how to live, and condemning all those who think differently than he?

I dont have a problem with one of those scenarios...

Ok here we go..Our Society is a mess, especially the US.

:arrow: Let's see about that

Think about it, we seem to think that if it feels good, do it. It doesnt occur to us that if we have sex with that person, we could get STD's, an unwanted pregnancy, or many other compilcations.

:arrow: Agreed

The music our children listen to is nothing but garbage. Most of these rap songs are the same: do drugs, have sex, shoot cops. That is the rap industry in a nutshell. Why, the other day i was listening to the radio, and a song about a guy having sex with two women suddenly came on. I believe in freedom of speech too, but when you got a guy who raps about how much his life sucks, how his mom is a bitch and he hates her, and how he's gonna shoot his ex-wife, that kinda stuff is crazy! Some claim these lyrics are just artistic expression, but when Eminem raps how he's gonna rape his own mom...I ask you, what sort of symbolism is this?

:arrow: Unfortunatly...yes.....half-yes
Our generation has immediatly realized how lame Eminem is
And I don't listen too much to rap crap, but it doesn't matter. If the kids like the music, why not let them listen? Studies say that we learn better if we are exposed to the music we want to hear.

It used to be.. in the days of I Love Lucy, that the word "pregnant could not even be uttered. Now, we have Janet Jackson practically stripping on live TV (yeah, suit malfuntion..the WHOLE thing was supposed to come off lol :lol: :wink: ). Almost every single movie has to have a steamy sex scene to get good ratings. Matrix Reloaded was an awesome movie, but the ten minutes of sex really was not nessecary at all.

:arrow: Yeah...I didn't get the sex part. But what is wrong with people being open-minded about sex? At least we're learning about it at a younger age instead of parents not teaching their children at all.

This is gonna come back and haunt us. When I'm hanging out, I hear my little brother's 9-year old friend call his sister a "lesbian" because she was acting stupid. He knew what it meant...when I was that age, I was sheltered from this sort of stuff...

:arrow: Is this a problem? A vocabulary word is a problem? Maybe because it's reffering to a female sexuality preference is your only problem. Maybe you don't think 9yr olds should know what a lesbian is? Maybe you think that more 9yr olds should be sheltered from being open-minded too?

People, we have to realize that this "ghetto culture" that young people are raving about is really being made up by some 70-year-old billionare who really doesn't give a damn on how it will affect kids. We cannot tolerate Janet Jackson exposing herself, or D12 (Eminem's band) telling our kids to get drunk and high.

:arrow: It's a fad. It'll go away in a few years, thank gawd. So relax, grab a coke and sip it.

Now to start on the more politcal aspect of media. Most everything we see on TV or read in the paper or magazine is given to us by the liberal media. Why does Bush look like an idiot. Maybe he is one...or the media is making him look moronic. They control what we do and don't see. This whole Prisoner abuse issue...it was reported back in JANUARY...but of course it isn't a story unless their are pictures. According to a guy I heard on the radio (Sean Hannity show, i tuned in during the middle of the convo, so i unfortuanatley cannot tell you who it was) his group gathered movies of Sadaam's tourtures, which, I assure you, was much worse than putting underpants on a naked man's head. Only one out of all the news groups they gave these video's too showed any of it...and it was a French News Orginization.

:arrow: Umm....okay!

But then you see, you kinda get yourself in a bind. If you look for news from the major news affiliates..you'll get the liberal side of it. But then if you listen to Sean Hannitey, Mike Savage etc. You get the conservitive story.

Either way, you cannot get the straight facts...

WOW... I feel a lot better now :lol:

Any and all comments are accepted and encouraged and will be read by an open mind...


Now Colodia, I would like to comment a bit on your comments. Sure, we should understand sex, but our kids shouldn't be learing it from Hollywood. Thier parents should sit them down and explain. It is very uncomfortable (man, i still remember it with my parents :roll: ), but very nessecary. Sex is the way human being reproduce and they way a couple expresses love. That is not how it is shown to us in theaters. It is shown almost like some sort of common household game that you can "play" with anyone.

About the lesbian statement: I'm not gonna go back into this. Check the beginning of the thread and my argument with 3P. You will get explaination there.

To all of this, I think the media has the 3rd-place responsibility, although it's definitely in there.

The FIRST responsibility belongs to parents...it's pretty sorry when parents abandon their responsibilities to the TV and then wonder why their kids act like that, and blame everyone but themselves.

The SECOND belongs to the school system. Try to reprimand a child for doing something inappropriate and what do you get? Complaints to the school board, lawsuits, and excuses, excuses, excuses. Again a failure by those who are supposed to intervene. Of course, this gets down to PARENTS again, who are in part responsible for taking away power from the school system.

The THIRD is the media, which teaches unhealthy attitudes towards things, including the destructive attitudes to the body, sex, illicit substances, and so on. They sensationalize it, and that's absolutely unnecessary. It's not the fact that these topics are simply addressed at all...but they are addressed in distorted, unhealthy ways. The naked body, for instance, is not treated as an object for reverence and respect as the people of the Renaissance would've had it (think of artists like Michelangelo), but is often blown grossly out of proportion and discussed as though it were a commodity, not a fine, intricate creation that ought to be treated with respect. When you get down to it, a lot of things are treated as commodities or toys that should have much more meaning and reverence attached to them--it strips them of that and puts the distorted meanings in their place.

Ok here we go..Our Society is a mess, especially the US.

Think about it, we seem to think that if it feels good, do it. It doesnt occur to us that if we have sex with that person, we could get STD's, an unwanted pregnancy, or many other compilcations.

The music our children listen to is nothing but garbage. Most of these rap songs are the same: do drugs, have sex, shoot cops. That is the rap industry in a nutshell. Why, the other day i was listening to the radio, and a song about a guy having sex with two women suddenly came on. I believe in freedom of speech too, but when you got a guy who raps about how much his life sucks, how his mom is a bitch and he hates her, and how he's gonna shoot his ex-wife, that kinda stuff is crazy! Some claim these lyrics are just artistic expression, but when Eminem raps how he's gonna rape his own mom...I ask you, what sort of symbolism is this?

It used to be.. in the days of I Love Lucy, that the word "pregnant could not even be uttered. Now, we have Janet Jackson practically stripping on live TV (yeah, suit malfuntion..the WHOLE thing was supposed to come off lol :lol: :wink: ). Almost every single movie has to have a steamy sex scene to get good ratings. Matrix Reloaded was an awesome movie, but the ten minutes of sex really was not nessecary at all.

This is gonna come back and haunt us. When I'm hanging out, I hear my little brother's 9-year old friend call his sister a "lesbian" because she was acting stupid. He knew what it meant...when I was that age, I was sheltered from this sort of stuff...

People, we have to realize that this "ghetto culture" that young people are raving about is really being made up by some 70-year-old billionare who really doesn't give a damn on how it will affect kids. We cannot tolerate Janet Jackson exposing herself, or D12 (Eminem's band) telling our kids to get drunk and high.

Now to start on the more politcal aspect of media. Most everything we see on TV or read in the paper or magazine is given to us by the liberal media. Why does Bush look like an idiot. Maybe he is one...or the media is making him look moronic. They control what we do and don't see. This whole Prisoner abuse issue...it was reported back in JANUARY...but of course it isn't a story unless their are pictures. According to a guy I heard on the radio (Sean Hannity show, i tuned in during the middle of the convo, so i unfortuanatley cannot tell you who it was) his group gathered movies of Sadaam's tourtures, which, I assure you, was much worse than putting underpants on a naked man's head. Only one out of all the news groups they gave these video's too showed any of it...and it was a French News Orginization.

But then you see, you kinda get yourself in a bind. If you look for news from the major news affiliates..you'll get the liberal side of it. But then if you listen to Sean Hannitey, Mike Savage etc. You get the conservitive story.

Either way, you cannot get the straight facts...

WOW... I feel a lot better now :lol:

Any and all comments are accepted and encouraged and will be read by an open mind...

BS, first of all, I am not condeming everyone. Nor am I saying "My way or the Highway". I am tolerant of others opinions, except for when it threatens our morality as a nation and as a society. And I try not to listen to it. The problem is, I am surrounded by people who do. I live and work alongside people who smoke pot, drink, etc. So it rubbs off on me. I hate to see what these guys are doing to themselves. I hate it more to know that I live in a society that supports it, maybe not outright, but through songs and movies.

Second of all: If the 40 year old man is meant to represent me...I believe you have made an error. I am a sophmore in high school.

BS, first of all, I am not condeming everyone. Nor am I saying "My way or the Highway". I am tolerant of others opinions, except for when it threatens our morality as a nation and as a society. And I try not to listen to it. The problem is, I am surrounded by people who do. I live and work alongside people who smoke pot, drink, etc. So it rubbs off on me. I hate to see what these guys are doing to themselves. I hate it more to know that I live in a society that supports it, maybe not outright, but through songs and movies.

Second of all: If the 40 year old man is meant to represent me...I believe you have made an error. I am a sophmore in high school.

One question. Who is this directed at?

Ahh, thank God, someone who is on my side , if not completely. Even if we don't see the issue the exact same way, I agree totaly with what you are saying.

BS, first of all, I am not condeming everyone. Nor am I saying "My way or the Highway". I am tolerant of others opinions, except for when it threatens our morality as a nation and as a society. And I try not to listen to it. The problem is, I am surrounded by people who do. I live and work alongside people who smoke pot, drink, etc. So it rubbs off on me. I hate to see what these guys are doing to themselves. I hate it more to know that I live in a society that supports it, maybe not outright, but through songs and movies.

Second of all: If the 40 year old man is meant to represent me...I believe you have made an error. I am a sophmore in high school.

'Nuff said.

BS, first of all, I am not condeming everyone. Nor am I saying "My way or the Highway". I am tolerant of others opinions, except for when it threatens our morality as a nation and as a society. And I try not to listen to it. The problem is, I am surrounded by people who do. I live and work alongside people who smoke pot, drink, etc. So it rubbs off on me. I hate to see what these guys are doing to themselves. I hate it more to know that I live in a society that supports it, maybe not outright, but through songs and movies.

Second of all: If the 40 year old man is meant to represent me...I believe you have made an error. I am a sophmore in high school.

One question. Who is this directed at?

OO I'm sorry, It was aimed at BackwoodsSquatches. BS= the intials of BackwoodsSquatches. Sorry for the confusion.

Hmm, yeah, usually when one sees "BS" it's got a pretty particular meaning. :wink:

And no, we don't have complete agreement...if I got into other particulars in this thread you'd probably turn out to be rather more conservative than me on some things. I cannot agree with all that you've said about homosexuality, for instance. I don't intend to get into that debate because I see that a lot has already been debated here and we'd just be re-treading old ground. Still, I see myself as a moderate conservative, so we do have some agreement.

BS, first of all, I am not condeming everyone. Nor am I saying "My way or the Highway". I am tolerant of others opinions, except for when it threatens our morality as a nation and as a society. And I try not to listen to it. The problem is, I am surrounded by people who do. I live and work alongside people who smoke pot, drink, etc. So it rubbs off on me. I hate to see what these guys are doing to themselves. I hate it more to know that I live in a society that supports it, maybe not outright, but through songs and movies.

Second of all: If the 40 year old man is meant to represent me...I believe you have made an error. I am a sophmore in high school.

The "forty year old man" was a analogy of you..or any actual politician of similar view.

The point is, all those guy who smoke pot, or listen to whatever....its thier choice.
Who are you to say they shouldnt?
If you choose not to, great.
But you dont have any right to be a moral superior to anyone with different views than you.

Take care of yourself, make you a better person before you worry about me.

Please, allow me to try to put a stop to this silly debate on homosexuality to rest by pointing what I believe Mikatopia's actual point was:

First, a look at the quote that spawned the controversy-



When I'm hanging out, I hear my little brother's 9-year old friend call his sister a "lesbian" because she was acting stupid. He knew what it meant...when I was that age, I was sheltered from this sort of stuff...


Next, take a look at Mikatopia's response to criticism of that quote-


Can you say bigot? What's wrong with children knowing about homosexuals? What the hell is wrong with you?! There is nothing wrong with homosexuality, so you can not "shelter" someone from it. If you want to protect your kids from these things, maybe you should watch what the watch, listen to what they listen to. You can also teach them to hate just like you do.


I'm Sorry dude (dudette), i didn't mean it in THAT context. His sister IS NOT a lesbian, yet he knew in this day and age, calling someone "gay" is derogatory. I am not against gays, I just disapprove of the lifestyle. I view it as a disorder of hormones or somesuch. Hate the sin not the sinner, get what I'm saying?

Now, just try to imagine Mikatopia's response to the criticism without everything including and past "I just disapprove of the lifestyle". It was at that point that Mikatopia made his mistep, when he (accidentally, I believe), turned this into a debate about the merits of homosexuality. Without those sentences, the entire debate would never have happened.

I would like to state that it is my opinion that Mikatopia did not intend for the conversation to take that path, that the final sentences were meant to apologize for any misunderstanding, not create new ones. Through an unfortunate series of word choices, the problem began.

However, look back at the original quote and think at it from a different perspective: maybe Mikatopia meant that it was a shame that children are being made aware of sexuality so early in life. Surely everyone, gay and straight, can agree that children are not supposed to be sexual creatures. A child shouldn't know what it means to be homosexual, no more than they should know what it means to be heterosexual. The original quote mentioned how the author thought children ought to be sheltered from that, and I think most of us can agree with that.

Mikatopia, feel free to disagree with my interpretation of your thoughts, but I think it would be in your best interest and in the best interests of your thread to go along :). Also, for those who wish to cintinue arguing with Mikatopia about his views, try to remember that as long as he does not use such views to discriminate against homosexuals, you do not have any reason to argue with him. It's just that he finds sexual feelings towards the same sex to be as unnatural as you find such feelings towards the opposite sex. If situations were reversed and homosexuality were the norm, you would speak and act the same way (and I don't want to see any replies noting the inability of such a society to reproduce...).

Raishann: well, everyone is different I guess, everyone is entitled to thier own opinion: from conservitive, to liberal, to Nazi.

Sheilanagig: Yes, I am a sophmore. But I had many of you fooled didnt I (even though I have stated it a few times on this thread already). I understand how you may not want to listen to a 14-year old. But I figure my opinion is as good as anyone elses, if not more so; dealing with the fact that I am in the thick of it as a teenager. My fellow teenagers and myself are the targets of this new culture. They want us to listen to thier music, watch thier shows, act the way they tell us to. And many of us succumb to it. I will admit in this day and age resolving to abstain from sex until marriage is VERY hard. Especially since among teenage boys, virginity is treated as a weakness. So please, though I am some 26 years younger than you previously believed, do not throw aside my opinions.

Wow...you certainly surprise me. I expected, from the way you write, that you were older than I am! I don't know how I managed to miss it...I think I guessed the 14-year-old was someone else.

Lebonia...I.... :cry: am so touched.

Really though, thanks a lot for your wonderful input. It is good to know that some people feel like you do. But I'm going to alert you: be careful when you start talking about homosexuality. You will get yourself tangled up in a big web which is hard to get out of. My advise for these sorts of situations is this: Speak calmly and don't loose your temper. Too many people on this site attack people directley, not the ideas they present. Also, be polite, even if people repeatedily call you names like "bigot " and "homophobe". Don't insult them back. Not enough people on this site realize this strategy. You obviously do. Thank you.

BS, first of all, I am not condeming everyone. Nor am I saying "My way or the Highway". I am tolerant of others opinions, except for when it threatens our morality as a nation and as a society. And I try not to listen to it. The problem is, I am surrounded by people who do. I live and work alongside people who smoke pot, drink, etc. So it rubbs off on me. I hate to see what these guys are doing to themselves. I hate it more to know that I live in a society that supports it, maybe not outright, but through songs and movies.

Second of all: If the 40 year old man is meant to represent me...I believe you have made an error. I am a sophmore in high school.

One question. Who is this directed at?

OO I'm sorry, It was aimed at BackwoodsSquatches. BS= the intials of BackwoodsSquatches. Sorry for the confusion.

I need new initials..I get that all the time.

Sheilanagig: Yes, I am a sophmore. But I had many of you fooled didnt I (even though I have stated it a few times on this thread already). I understand how you may not want to listen to a 14-year old. But I figure my opinion is as good as anyone elses, if not more so; dealing with the fact that I am in the thick of it as a teenager. My fellow teenagers and myself are the targets of this new culture. They want us to listen to thier music, watch thier shows, act the way they tell us to. And many of us succumb to it. I will admit in this day and age resolving to abstain from sex until marriage is VERY hard. Especially since among teenage boys, virginity is treated as a weakness. So please, though I am some 26 years younger than you previously believed, do not throw aside my opinions.

Wait just one minute. I never assumed you were 44. I was trying to say something to the effect of, "surprise surprise." Your views are untempered by experience. That's a hallmark of someone your age. Their feelings on issues are strong, but the life experience to back them up just isn't there. It's typical to be an idealist in high school, but the older you get, the more you lose that.

Not that I discount your opinions totally, I just think that you need to see more aspects of the issues than just the obvious, emotional ones.

:arrow: On sex:

America is a VERY sexually immature nation. That's why people make such a big deal about a boob being seen on television, and that's why they planned the boob to be on television. Because people KNOW they'll get a response. That's why there's stupid and needless nudity in movies. If people stopped caring, it wouldn't be there anymore. Unfortauntly, Mikatopia, the media relies on people like you to complain about it so OTHERS will go see it.

:arrow: On sexuality:

I have nothing against homosexuals, bisexuals, transexuals, whatever. Really, I don't. Love who you wanna, it's not like it's affecting me. But I DO get irritated when it's used as a slur. I'm sick of going around and hearing people my age saying stupid crap like "yeah, this homework is gay" and so on.

So, I usually bug the hell out of them back by asking "How exactly is that homework gay? I don't believe paper can have a sexuality." and such.

Yeah, I'm a right bugger.

:arrow: On parents:

Many parents don't want to be parents these days. They'd rather have good ol' TV do it for them. If there is anyone and most fault here, it is them. Seriously, most parents suck at parenting.

:arrow: On MTV culture:

Corporations want one thing: lots and lots of mon-ay. And they do whatever they can to get it. Now, most teenagers want to be treated as adults, but don't want to act like adults, and the MTV culture LOVES this, because it's VERY easy to sell them things that promote their idiotic psuedo-rebellion. Who cares if they're morons and grow up to be bigoted idiots? There's a lot of money to be made off of hate. Of course, they ALSO need to apear sympethetic to people who're hated, because they have money too.

The absolute hypocrasy drives me insane. One minute you'll hear how women are important and not just tools for a man's libido, and the next week it's "all access on spring break!" It's rediculous. And people BUY INTO IT, which really makes me lose my mind. Where's Charles Dawin when you need him (cough http://www.queenofwands.net/d/20031208.html cough)

:arrow: On education:

Teachers are frigging STUPID. The decent ones end up getting kicked out or sued. The whole education system is buggered up.

I noticed that Mikatopia and several others have been using the term 'lifestyle choice' in reference to what is properly known as a 'sexual orientation'. For the record, being homosexual is neither a choice, nor is it a disorder. If you don't trust me, take a look at some questions from the American Psychiatric Association's webpage. By the way, this Association prints the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, which is the guide for every mental health proffesional in the states, and a model for the international guide.

A link to the complete page is below.

Is Sexual Orientation a Choice?

No, human beings can not choose to be either gay or straight. Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed.


Is Homosexuality a Mental Illness or Emotional Problem?

No. Psychologists, psychiatrists and other mental health professionals agree that homosexuality is not an illness, mental disorder or an emotional problem. Over 35 years of objective, well-designed scientific research has shown that homosexuality, in and itself,is not associated with mental disorders or emotional or social problems. Homosexuality was once thought to be a mental illness because mental health professionals and society had biased information. In the past the studies of gay, lesbian and bisexual people involved only those in therapy, thus biasing the resulting conclusions. When researchers examined data about these people who were not in therapy, the idea that homosexuality was a mental illness was quickly found to be untrue.

In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association confirmed the importance of the new, better designed research and removed homosexuality from the official manual that lists mental and emotional disorders. Two years later, the American Psychological Association passed a resolution supporting the removal. For more than 25 years, both associations have urged all mental health professionals to help dispel the stigma of mental illness that some people still associate with homosexual orientation.


http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/answers.html


Think about it for a moment. Who in the hell would 'choose' to be homosexual, and run the risk of being assaulted, murdered and generally harrassed by bigots who have their flames of prejudice fanned by hate-mongers that propagate society?

I just realized another thing I despise: the constant viagra and viagra-like products being advertised. Please, I don't think the public radio stations and televisionare places to broadcast these messages to grandpa's who can't (no offense intended toward men with the *ahem* :oops: problem)

The truth is, we really don't care about your libido. If you have a problem, talk to your doctor about it. Don't put disgusting images in my head when I listen to the radio. I mean...come on.

Decimated Dreams: Well, I can see where you are coming from, but I don't completely argee.

Exactly then, if it is not a mental condition , what is it. Your post doesn't exactly explain thier reasoning for removing homosexuality from mental disorders. Maybe it isn't mental, but it has to be some thing. Humans, by nature, are not meant to be gay. As I explained earlier in what I believe will become infamous light-plug thread: the plug goes in the outlet. That is the way humans are meant to function.

*spreads arms out wide and prepares to be bombarded with insults and accusations*

Decimated Dreams: Well, I can see where you are coming from, but I don't completely argee.

Exactly then, if it is not a mental condition , what is it. Your post doesn't exactly explain thier reasoning for removing homosexuality from mental disorders. Maybe it isn't mental, but it has to be some thing. Humans, by nature, are not meant to be gay. As I explained earlier in what I believe will become infamous light-plug thread: the plug goes in the outlet. That is the way humans are meant to function.

*spreads arms out wide and prepares to be bombarded with insults and accusations*

Who exactly do you feel is persecuting you, Mikatopia? I think you're imagining that we're all saying these things to personally get at you.

:!: Enough with the gay debate already! There are lots of other threads for that :!:

Cromotar: The whole concept of Reloaded was it was a war against man and machine, so obviously there will be violence. The sex usually never has any really meaning to the plot at all. Seeing Keanu Reeve's butt didn't change, help, or effect the plot whatsoever. If they wanted sex at all, they could have showed Neo and Trinity laying in bed together naked (covered by sheets of course) and we would assume sexual intercourse took place. In fact, you could cut the sex scene out all together and the movie would still make sense.

I don't approve of killing people, but if movies and video games want to show it, then the movie or game should have the proper rating. Parents shouldn't buy violent games for thier kids if they doubt the child's maturity.

Sex is not a bad thing. In fact, it is a wonderful thing. It is how Hollywood presents it. We are told that you can have sex with anyone you want. It shows sex as a game rather as the catalyst for creating new life and expressing your love to your partner. I am not saying that sex cannot be enjoyable, and I'm not saying it shouldn't. I think it should be saved for when the couple has come together as husband and wife. Sure, call me a prude, but when you think about it, the whole idea of absitnance is a good one. I cannot see anything wrong with it. First, you know your partner well enough to have made a vow of love for all time to them. Second, if you get pregant, at least you know who the father is. Third, STD's will be known beforehand intead of learning about it the next morning.

I wasn't condemning the violence; I love the Matrix movies (and to be honest I hated that rave/sex scene, too). I just wanted to put things in perspective. Many movies today have tons and tons of gratuitous violence, but it's the sex scenes that get the slander, even if the ones involved are a loving couple. Why is sex worse than killing?

As for the issue of abstinence, no sex before marriage is a lovely thought, but rather naïve. Young people are bound to explore their own sexuality, and for many this is a healthy journey of self-discovery. The thing is: it should be done responsibly with proper protection. Young people need to be more enlightened about this, which is all the more reason for not having sex as such a taboo. Too many people today, yound and old, are careless with protection because they have the incorrect belief that STD's, especially HIV, are no longer a threat. Society needs to be able to discuss sex more freely!

Sheilanagig: No, I know you guys love me and would never insult me personally...but I noticed whenever one makes a comment against homosexuality.. WHAM, somebody brands you a bigot and a Nazi. I was just mentally preparing myself for the storm. I have a feeling by the time this thread is forgotten in the vast void of NS, some body else is gonna call me a bigot.

did it ever occur to you, Mika, that the repulsion you feel toward queers reflects the same sex-preoccupation that you criticize in the media? a kiss (between gays, between anyone) that you might happen to catch a glimpse of expresses much more than lust. there are other things in gay relationships besides the one that you find unnatural and repulsive. so why is lesbian a dirty word to you? why do you look at affection and immediately think of light sockets? :P

the idea that some kinds of sex are perverted or pathological implies that there's a particular "correct" way to have sex. if you resent rap lyrics promoting rape and promiscuity, why do you accept the dogma (from your church or your parents?) that tells you (and everybody else) how to have sex, and with whom? you say that sex is beautiful but those who try to exploit it turn it into something ugly and perverse. try to be just as critical of the church as you are of the media. don't you want, for yourself and everyone else, the freedom to figure out lust and love and sexuality for one's-own-self?

that said, I really appreciated the rest of your original post. I'm in my sixth year of teenagerhood and still feel humiliated by the phoniness and cynicism of the culture that purports to represent me and my generation and my little sis's generation. high school for me was like a haze of naive cynicism, self-doubts, and pettishness -- I vaguely understood what I hated about the world but couldn't see very far beyond that. let me tell you, a few months with my own apartment in a new city and no internet or television set really changed my outlook. anyway, i'm trying to say that I liked your rant, Mika, but you show your immaturity in parroting too much of the whiny, constipated conservativism of people like Hannity and Savage and the Pope. why the f*ck do you listen to right-wing talk radio, anyway? figure things out for yourself, man: foster your curiosity and creativity, allow yourself to be generous, try to see people for who they really are. like Blake said: "If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. For man has closed himself up, 'til he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern."

Mikatopia, don't be a lazy bastard. Obviously you have become so used to being spoon-fed biased information by your church, parents and right-wing radio that you no longer possess the ability to seek out information and form your own opinions. In my last post, I had two questions/answers from the American Psychiatric Association and a link to the full page. If you had taken all of two minutes to load up and glance at the page, you would have seen this at the top.

What Is Sexual Orientation?

Sexual Orientation is an enduring emotional, romantic, sexual or affectional attraction to another person. It is easily distinguished from other components of sexuality including biological sex, gender identity (the psychological sense of being male or female) and the social gender role (adherence to cultural norms for feminine and masculine behavior).

Sexual orientation exists along a continuum that ranges from exclusive homosexuality to exclusive heterosexuality and includes various forms of bisexuality. Bisexual persons can experience sexual, emotional and affectional attraction to both their own sex and the opposite sex. Persons with a homosexual orientation are sometimes referred to as gay (both men and women) or as lesbian (women only).

Sexual orientation is different from sexual behavior because it refers to feelings and self-concept. Persons may or may not express their sexual orientation in their behaviors.


In case you don't feel like scrolling up, here's the link-again.
http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/answers.html

So, to answer your dumb-ass question for you, Mikatopia, homosexuality is just one end of the spectrum of sexual orientation. And that 'not meant by nature' arguement is tired and worn. Animals, including penguins, dolphins, giraffes-over 450 species.
http://web.archive.org/web/20010210213741/www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,23309,00.html
Yes, that article was archived, and is no longer on Time's site.

Now, if you want to find out more, I highly suggest, again, the American Psychiactric Association's website at www.apa.org They are, after all, the mental health professionals. They have many clinical papers/studies and also pages intended for the layperson that explain fully, and I mean fully, about homosexuality. Worth taking five minutes to use the built in search function on the front page.

Also, for some more good information, stop by http://www.religioustolerance.org/homosexu.htm which is the menu for several pages of essays that are fully researched, neutral, and annonated. Which means bibliographies, footnotes and accurate information. If you don't believe it, you can check their sources yourself.

Mikatopia, I sincerely hope you will check out these links here, because you are seriously misinformed. Also, that martyr act is uncalled for. You aren't Christ, a prophet or holy man. You are simply a passionate young, confused teenager who needs some misunderstanding corrected. Shape up and stop acting a smartass-you might learn something.

Ok DD, thanks for the input. I will look at those sites.

To EVERYONE: I WILL NOT RESPOND TO ANYTHING ON HOMOSEXUALITY ANYMORE. Thats it, done, finis. This subject just seems to make me and everyone else PO'ed. If you want to hear my opinion, look throughout the entire thread and piece it together yourself, or start a thread on it and maybe I'll post how I feel. Clear on that? Good. Because this subject had very little to do at all with my original post to begin with.

Homosexuality is one of those issues like abortion (another subject which I will NOT bring up) in that you either are for it, or against it. I have viewed such threads in the past, and eventually it becomes just a bunch of trolling and downright insults. So as I said: No more.