NationStates Jolt Archive


The new "Independent" Iraqi government....

Zeppistan
02-06-2004, 17:11
You know: Independent to do whatever the US asks of them! And it's not like they don't know who they are dealing with.

"But hey!" you say. "They were picked by the CPA! See? by Iraqis! How much more independant can you get than that?"

Which is to say that they were "independently" chosen by that "independent" group of long-time friends, allies, and CIA funded talking heads appointed by Shrub that were originally parachuted into power..

But hey.... let's holster that sarcasm for a sec Zep... give it a look and see. Maybe it's not that bad...

The new Iraqi President? Well - who cares really. It's a titular position. Pick a squeeky wheel to distract the world with rhetoric.

The vice presidents?

One of them is another of the London league of ex-pats who fed intel to Washington and has lengthy ties to Iran.
The other is leader of one of the two main Kurdish parties (KDP) who rejected the interim Constitution unless the Kurds kept military control of their area, and who's group aligned itself with Saddam's Republican Guard in the 90's helping the Guard to attack the other main Kurdish group (PUK) as well as Iraqi National Congress strongholds in the Kurdish region in order to solidify their own position. Clearly a man of integrity and loyalty.

Hmmm. Not looking great to start. Let's go up a notch. Because in reality under the current circumstances there are really two key positions: The Prime Minister and the Minister of Defense. Running the country, and dealing with security.


The new Minister of Defense?

A relative and compatriot in exile of that disgraced fraud artist, purveyor of false intel, CIA confidant, receiver of millions from US funds to provide the aforementioned false intel, and possible Iranian double agent - Chalabi.


The President?

A relative and compatriot in exile of that disgraced fraud artist, purveyor of false intel, CIA confidant, receiver of millions from US funds to provide the aforementioned false intel, and possible Iranian double agent - Chalabi. Noticing a trend? And yes - that also makes him a relative of the Minister of Defense. That always adds a nice aroma to the concept of independent viewpoints in council doesn't it?

The President also has firm ties in his own right to the CIA dating back to the 80's, received his own share of slush funding from them for decades, and who's complete misreading of the Iraqi situation lead to a spectacular failure of a coup attempt in '96. He has also been rumored to have been the one who told that tall tale to the Brits that Saddam had a WMD arsenal that could deploy weapons to attack foreign targets within 45 minutes.



And there you have it.

Is that leadership "independent" enough for you?



Of course, Powell was the first to say "If the new leaders ask us to... we WILL leave".

But then again, it's easy to make that claim when you make one of your own employees the new leader. You might just have a pretty good idea about what he's going to ask of you....

So I guess they can keep on building that "biggest US embassy in the world" in Baghdad. I mean - it's understandable. Iraq IS the most important country in the world and so worthy of that level of diplomacy....much more needful than Moscow ever was... and GW only plans to stay there a little while, so they need lots of people just to be sure that everything works out according to plan .... just don't look to closely at those dozen "Enduring" (read as 'permanent") military bases they are constructing in the dessert... it's just that the Army Corps of Engineers don't know how to make a temporary base. The army WILL be leaving.......eventually.



So....How does Jan 17, 2050 grab you as a nice day to pull the troops out? You book the van, I'll order the pizza....
Salishe
02-06-2004, 17:19
You know: Independent to do whatever the US asks of them! And it's not like they don't know who they are dealing with.

"But hey!" you say. "They were picked by the CPA! See? by Iraqis! How much more independant can you get than that?"

Which is to say that they were "independently" chosen by that "independent" group of long-time friends, allies, and CIA funded talking heads appointed by Shrub that were originally parachuted into power..

But hey.... let's holster that sarcasm for a sec Zep... give it a look and see. Maybe it's not that bad...

The new Iraqi President? Well - who cares really. It's a titular position. Pick a squeeky wheel to distract the world with rhetoric.

The vice presidents?

One of them is another of the London league of ex-pats who fed intel to Washington and has lengthy ties to Iran.
The other is leader of one of the two main Kurdish parties (KDP) who rejected the interim Constitution unless the Kurds kept military control of their area, and who's group aligned itself with Saddam's Republican Guard in the 90's helping the Guard to attack the other main Kurdish group (PUK) as well as Iraqi National Congress strongholds in the Kurdish region in order to solidify their own position. Clearly a man of integrity and loyalty.

Hmmm. Not looking great to start. Let's go up a notch. Because in reality under the current circumstances there are really two key positions: The Prime Minister and the Minister of Defense. Running the country, and dealing with security.


The new Minister of Defense?

A relative and compatriot in exile of that disgraced fraud artist, purveyor of false intel, CIA confidant, receiver of millions from US funds to provide the aforementioned false intel, and possible Iranian double agent - Chalabi.


The President?

A relative and compatriot in exile of that disgraced fraud artist, purveyor of false intel, CIA confidant, receiver of millions from US funds to provide the aforementioned false intel, and possible Iranian double agent - Chalabi. Noticing a trend? And yes - that also makes him a relative of the Minister of Defense. That always adds a nice aroma to the concept of independent viewpoints in council doesn't it?

The President also has firm ties in his own right to the CIA dating back to the 80's, received his own share of slush funding from them for decades, and who's complete misreading of the Iraqi situation lead to a spectacular failure of a coup attempt in '96. He has also been rumored to have been the one who told that tall tale to the Brits that Saddam had a WMD arsenal that could deploy weapons to attack foreign targets within 45 minutes.



And there you have it.

Is that leadership "independent" enough for you?



Of course, Powell was the first to say "If the new leaders ask us to... we WILL leave".

But then again, it's easy to make that claim when you make one of your own employees the new leader. You might just have a pretty good idea about what he's going to ask of you....

So I guess they can keep on building that "biggest US embassy in the world" in Baghdad. I mean - it's understandable. Iraq IS the most important country in the world and so worthy of that level of diplomacy....much more needful than Moscow ever was... and GW only plans to stay there a little while, so they need lots of people just to be sure that everything works out according to plan .... just don't look to closely at those dozen "Enduring" (read as 'permanent") military bases they are constructing in the dessert... it's just that the Army Corps of Engineers don't know how to make a temporary base. The army WILL be leaving.......eventually.



So....How does Jan 17, 2050 grab you as a nice day to pull the troops out? You book the van, I'll order the pizza....

Excuse me...but I must have missed the financial disclosure sheet indicating any of these guys are paid employees of the United States Government..shoot..I am so out of the loop...listen Zep..in all seriousness..it was either expatriots who whom we could guide or Iranian-backed Shiites like Sadr....take your pick?
Zeppistan
02-06-2004, 18:25
Excuse me...but I must have missed the financial disclosure sheet indicating any of these guys are paid employees of the United States Government..shoot..I am so out of the loop...

Excuse me?

These guys have been on the payroll for years!

So much so that a bill was introduced into congress to end the direct funding of CHalabi & co. (http://www.keepmedia.com/ShowItemDetails.do?itemID=457571&extID=10032&oliID=213)

The CIA also funded Allawi (http://daily.nysun.com/Repository/getmailfiles.asp?Style=OliveXLib%3AArticleToMail&Type=text/html&Path=NYS/2004/06/01&ID=Ar00102) who is a former Ba'athist who still believes in putting Ba'athists into positions of power.


What do the Arabs think of the new Prime Minister?
they wonder about his CIA links too! (http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7&section=0&article=46014&d=1&m=6&y=2004)

listen Zep..in all seriousness..it was either expatriots who whom we could guide or Iranian-backed Shiites like Sadr....take your pick?

You do rather make my point nicely. The statements from people like Bush and Rice yesterday kept stressing that this was a real, honest-to-goodness, independent government.

But you agree that it was tailored to be a pliable, compliant group.

Which is to say.... you seem to agree with my statement. They are NOT the independent, soveriegn leadership that they are being touted as. Only thing we disagree on seems to be that you just don't like my rhetoric.

Now - I agree - this sort of government is probably still needed. By why lie about it and claim that they are something that we all realize they are not? Is it just habitual for them?

Quotes from yesterday:

Condi Rice: "These are not America's puppets. These are independent-minded Iraqis who are determined to take their country to security and democracy."
U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell: "(Iraqis) will now see that their destiny is in the hands of their own leaders."
State Department spokesman Richard Boucher: said the revised text "makes clearer that the occupation ends on June 30th and that the Iraqi interim government will be fully sovereign."


Otherwise known as Bullsh*t!
Incertonia
02-06-2004, 18:31
Zepp, if I may direct you (http://incertus.blogspot.com/2004/05/doublespeak-in-full-effect-thanks-to.html) to a prescient headline I blogged on last Wednesday, from the LA Times.

US Emphasizes Intent to Transfer Full Power to Iraqis--With Limits

Bolding mine. Thought you might like that.
Tuesday Heights
03-06-2004, 08:08
"Independent" in Iraq just means less security to have a sniper get a good shot in on you.
New Auburnland
03-06-2004, 08:15
I am sure the leaders of Bosnia were hand picked by the US and NATO. That area seems to be a hell of a lot better than before we stopped the fighting there
Genaia
03-06-2004, 08:16
In fairness Zepp, you realise that it would be politically impossible and competely self-defeating to claim that they are not independent.
Josh Dollins
03-06-2004, 08:21
Not exactly a free or sovereign iraq if we stay without their consent which we may do. Not with the socialist policies america is supporting with a state ran oil system there. Not with the forced involvement in the UN are they sovereign.

This is really my only objections to this war that we will be staying so long rather than letting them be truly sovereign and dependent to find their own path and such as we did (america)
No-Dachi Yo
03-06-2004, 08:31
I am sure the leaders of Bosnia were hand picked by the US and NATO. That area seems to be a hell of a lot better than before we stopped the fighting there

Bosnia is still in ultimate control of NATO and the UN, over 8 years on. Paddy Ashdown gets the final say on nearly all policies. Tensions are still there but they are improving. You think that the amount of time needed in Iraq is not more, or the same you are kidding yourself. Im sure Iraqis can run thier own nation, I want them to - however there are always racial and religious tesions, those divisions were played on by Saddam for however long he was in power, they are not going away fast. Also there will always be the threats of charismatic individuals (like Sadr) playing on these divisions for personnal gain.

There is no quick fix, apologies to the idealistic, but we live in the real (meaningless and cr*p) world, nothing is that simple.