NationStates Jolt Archive

What do you think about Nirvana? David Grohl is still in the limelight with the Foo Fighters, Kurt Cobain is very dead, and who knows where the bassist ran off too. But anyway, do you think that Nirvana was an acid (in more ways than one) public commentary or just a bunch of heroin induced whinings?

Your opinion?

over rated

Brilliant..

over rated

Agreed. Grunge is dead!

Kurt Cobain couldn't cope with the pressure...I don't really have respect for him either.

nirvana......... fuck em' in the ass!!!1 :D

Average

they are a no talent band thanks to kurt cobain. he is gay.

i have a good nirvana joke.....

how does kurt cobain gather his thoughts?
-with a sponge.

Out of the Seattle Sound bands I prefer Pearl Jam.

Nirvana - ok now and again.

To old to appreciate them....but even when they did play...it was more of the screaming and barely heard riffs on a guitar...teenage angst put to screaming or incomprehensible phrases....give me CCR or the Doors anyday

in short...waste of musical history

Nirvana - Pixies rip-offs.

Nirvana - Pixies rip-offs.

Bingo - we have a winner....

in fact the 'grunge' thing was going on in the UK for a long time before Nirvana

in fact the 'grunge' thing was going on in the UK for a long time before Nirvana

An example or two, please?

Whiners and Cobain was a coward.

Ohhh, I am rock star...ohhh I have lots of money....Ohhh I have a beautiful daughter...My life is so hard...BANG.

Idiot.

i like nirvana, good artists, but they are other good artis, but the thing is smeels like teen spirit is not nearly their best song, but it is so overplayed!

in fact the 'grunge' thing was going on in the UK for a long time before Nirvana

An example or two, please?

One being the band I used to manage....(hopelessly useless and never 'made' it).....

Some other local bands as well....not worth naming them as they never made it and to be honest it was so long ago I've forgotten...

in fact the 'grunge' thing was going on in the UK for a long time before Nirvana

An example or two, please?

One being the band I used to manage....(hopelessly useless and never 'made' it).....

Some other local bands as well....not worth naming them as they never made it and to be honest it was so long ago I've forgotten...

Go on name the names - this isn't the McCarthy trials, you know?

in fact the 'grunge' thing was going on in the UK for a long time before Nirvana

An example or two, please?

One being the band I used to manage....(hopelessly useless and never 'made' it).....

Some other local bands as well....not worth naming them as they never made it and to be honest it was so long ago I've forgotten...

Go on name the names - this isn't the McCarthy trials, you know?

yeah....I am trying to remember....

bubblehead, hell bastard, drug squad....errrr errrr....damn I can't remember the others....

I was on the road a lot (new age traveller) and was half ripped to remember the names....let alone where I was! :) LOL

It was a brilliant band so stop bashing them. Okay Kurt killed himself and how many other stars have done the same thing? While he was a live he spoke for a movement he never wanted to lead. Now that he is dead leave him alone, since he can't defend himself. Idoits. :roll:

yeah....I am trying to remember....

bubblehead, hell bastard, drug squad....errrr errrr....damn I can't remember the others....

I was on the road a lot (new age traveller) and was half ripped to remember the names....let alone where I was! :) LOL

Hellbastard weren't a grunge band - metallic hardcore, shurely?

This is the same Hellbastard that split up and then reforemed with members of Energetic Krusher, and then changed their name to Hellkrusher? (I still think they should have called themselves 'Energetic Bastard' instead...)

Idoits.

Best... spelling... mistake... ever.

yeah....I am trying to remember....

bubblehead, hell bastard, drug squad....errrr errrr....damn I can't remember the others....

I was on the road a lot (new age traveller) and was half ripped to remember the names....let alone where I was! :) LOL

Hellbastard weren't a grunge band - metallic hardcore, shurely?

This is the same Hellbastard that split up and then reforemed with members of Energetic Krusher, and then changed their name to Hellkrusher? (I still think they should have called themselves 'Energetic Bastard' instead...)

hell bastard....this would be 1989 ish? It was a local band...never made it...as far as I can remember....

but then I could be wrong...it was a long time ago....

Hellbastard weren't a grunge band - metallic hardcore, shurely?

This is the same Hellbastard that split up and then reforemed with members of Energetic Krusher, and then changed their name to Hellkrusher? (I still think they should have called themselves 'Energetic Bastard' instead...)

hell bastard....this would be 1989 ish? It was a local band...never made it...as far as I can remember....

but then I could be wrong...it was a long time ago....

1989 sounds about right - just before the music mags tried to create a misguided hype about 'Britcore'. Rejected Records in Dublin but out the Hellkrusher complete discography on CD a few years back.

1989 sounds about right - just before the music mags tried to create a misguided hype about 'Britcore'. Rejected Records in Dublin but out the Hellkrusher complete discography on CD a few years back.

really!!! £"()&$ me!!! This lot were from Leeds....is this the same lot?

If so then I knew the guy who kicked off the band! :shock:

LOL mental!

I like Nirvana. They are cool.

1989 sounds about right - just before the music mags tried to create a misguided hype about 'Britcore'. Rejected Records in Dublin but out the Hellkrusher complete discography on CD a few years back.

really!!! £"()&$ me!!! This lot were from Leeds....is this the same lot?

If so then I knew the guy who kicked off the band! :shock:

LOL mental!

I can't remember where they were from off the top of my head - the web seems to believe they were based in Newcastle, but I'm inclined not to trust that.

1989 sounds about right - just before the music mags tried to create a misguided hype about 'Britcore'. Rejected Records in Dublin but out the Hellkrusher complete discography on CD a few years back.

really!!! £"()&$ me!!! This lot were from Leeds....is this the same lot?

If so then I knew the guy who kicked off the band! :shock:

LOL mental!

I can't remember where they were from off the top of my head - the web seems to believe they were based in Newcastle, but I'm inclined not to trust that.

I am really trying to remember the blokes name....I think it was Simon??

Ah well never mind....Nirvana were still pretty average...some good tunes but nothing special....

Mind you I think Grohl seems to have matured as a musician with the Foo Fighters....

I am really trying to remember the blokes name....I think it was Simon??

Bass player? AKA Simo?

I am really trying to remember the blokes name....I think it was Simon??

Bass player? AKA Simo?

eeeppp...could very well be.....could very well be indeed....

how bizzare!

Are you guys kidding? They may not have been revolutionary, but they were very good.

Nirvana - Pixies rip-offs.

Not really...

Nirvana = Pixies + Black Flag + Sonic Youth with maybe a little bit of Black Sabbath thrown into the mix too.

Nirvana is undoubtedly one of the greatest bands of the 20th century. They made alternative part of mainstream culture and expressed the angst anf rebellion of that day's youth....

I don't understand why you people hate Nirvana, as without their influence on rock, we'd still have a lot of hair metal rolling around.

Just because Kurt Cobain killed himself doesn't make Nirvana a bad band... Do you even know why he killed himself? Because he had becoming the unwilling reluctant leader of a generation without leaders. He was caught between the demands of his fans and those of the recording company, and he thought it wouldn't end if he just quit, so he killed himself. And that's just the gist of it... Search the internet for essays about his suicide and his psyche, then you might understand the man better.

But I like Nirvana because I can connect to their music. The music is dissonant and the lyrics are subtle. Why are the lyrics subtle? Because many of them have more than one meaning.

If you really want to understand Kurt Cobain and Nirvana, then you need to listen to their fourth album, In Utero, and on their seventh album, published pothmously, the song "You Know You're Right," which happens to be the last song Nirvana recorded before Kurt Cobain killed himself.

1989 sounds about right - just before the music mags tried to create a misguided hype about 'Britcore'. Rejected Records in Dublin but out the Hellkrusher complete discography on CD a few years back.

really!!! £"()&$ me!!! This lot were from Leeds....is this the same lot?

If so then I knew the guy who kicked off the band! :shock:

LOL mental!

I can't remember where they were from off the top of my head - the web seems to believe they were based in Newcastle, but I'm inclined not to trust that.

I am really trying to remember the blokes name....I think it was Simon??

Ah well never mind....Nirvana were still pretty average...some good tunes but nothing special....

Mind you I think Grohl seems to have matured as a musician with the Foo Fighters....

Nirvana's bass player's name is Krist Novoselic.

*DEAT*

I don't understand why you people hate Nirvana, as without their influence on rock, we'd still have a lot of hair metal rolling around.

Not likely, grunge would of happened without Nirvana; Pearl Jam or Alice in Chains would of broken through to the mainstream.

Or maybe emo would of happened then, right when it was in it's prime.

Or maybe death metal.

(These were all predictions made around 1992 as to what the next big thing would be)



Just because Kurt Cobain killed himself doesn't make Nirvana a bad band... Do you even know why he killed himself? Because he had becoming the unwilling reluctant leader of a generation without leaders. He was caught between the demands of his fans and those of the recording company, and he thought it wouldn't end if he just quit, so he killed himself. And that's just the gist of it...

Well that and his chronic stomach troubles and depression. I highly doubt he did it as some ultimate expression of angst, it seems alot more likely he did it because he hated waking up every morning and seeing a depressed heroin junkie with a burningly painful ulcer in his gut.

I like Nirvana. Though I do think "Teen Spirit" is overplayed. :)

A lot of their great songs are less known ones. And I personally believe Kurt Cobain was a music genius. It's unfortunate that some people only remember Nirvana because he committed suicide, when the message behind some of their songs is what makes the band memorable...to me anyway.

Nirvana - Pixies rip-offs.

Bingo - we have a winner....

in fact the 'grunge' thing was going on in the UK for a long time before Nirvana

Oh, forget that. Throwing Muses and Camper Van Beethoven were doing Pixies before Kim Deal could even spell heroin.

Ok ladies and gents maybe it's my generation but Nirvana was THE band of the nineties. Hands down.
Like them, love them or hate them. If you like Seether, Chevelle, or any other "rock" band that's playing today thank Nirvana (many of these bands credit Nirvana as an influence). No one (excepting a person totally devoid of brain grey matter) would ever dare to say Nirvana was the first Grunge band. Even Kurt redited the Pixies and the Melvins as being there first.
If you don't like the band fine.
If you have no clue what you are talking about shut up until you figure it out. I wouldn't trust you people to sit the correct way on a toilet seat.

Nirvana - Pixies rip-offs.

Nirvana = Pixies + Black Flag + Sonic Youth with maybe a little bit of Black Sabbath thrown into the mix too.

[drifting off topic] Maybe you could explain to me one of those great mysteries of life - why Black Flag ever thought that getting Mr. Rollins to sing for them would be a good musical idea? [/drifting off topic]

Ok ladies and gents maybe it's my generation but Nirvana was THE band of the nineties.....Even Kurt redited the Pixies and the Melvins as being there first.

I have no problem with people liking Nirvana - what I dislike is the adoration heaped on them as if they created their sound in a vacuum. By nodding your head in the direction of the Melvins you have shown that you don't fall into the camp which believes that 90s 'rock' (for want of a better term) was born in an immaculate conception in Seattle with the release of "Nevermind". It is not that Nirvana are bad, as such, but that there is a hell of a lot of other much more interesting stuff which was going on around that time, which is sidelined by the mainstream and faux-alternative media which seem intent on idolising Cobain as a new Messiah.

Nirvana - Pixies rip-offs.

Bingo - we have a winner....

in fact the 'grunge' thing was going on in the UK for a long time before Nirvana

Oh, forget that. Throwing Muses and Camper Van Beethoven were doing Pixies before Kim Deal could even spell heroin.
I always considered Throwing Muses as simultaneous with the Pixies and the two bands as feeding off each other, rather than TM simply copying the Pixies, but I could be wrong, and only and in depth archeology of rock could prove me to be so...

...Camper van Beethoven always just seemed 'out there' somewhere rather than influenced by the Pixies.

Ok ladies and gents maybe it's my generation but Nirvana was THE band of the nineties.....Even Kurt redited the Pixies and the Melvins as being there first.

I have no problem with people liking Nirvana - what I dislike is the adoration heaped on them as if they created their sound in a vacuum. By nodding your head in the direction of the Melvins you have shown that you don't fall into the camp which believes that 90s 'rock' (for want of a better term) was born in an immaculate conception in Seattle with the release of "Nevermind". It is not that Nirvana are bad, as such, but that there is a hell of a lot of other much more interesting stuff which was going on around that time, which is sidelined by the mainstream and faux-alternative media which seem intent on idolising Cobain as a new Messiah.

"The second coming came in last and out of the closet."--liner notes from Nevermind

It wasn't an immaculate conception, it was an anti-movement which just happened by chance. It is true that other bands would have eventually made the break through, but I'm glad it was Nirvana.

Nothin on the top but a bucket and a mop, and an illustrated book about birds..

See a lot up there but dont be scared, who needs actions when youve got words?

Nothin on the top but a bucket and a mop, and an illustrated book about birds..

See a lot up there but dont be scared, who needs actions when youve got words?

Where do bad people go when they die? These songs are by the Meatpuppets and they don't want to fry.....

It wasn't an immaculate conception, it was an anti-movement which just happened by chance. It is true that other bands would have eventually made the break through, but I'm glad it was Nirvana.

Read my post that you quoted again: I was stating that the media were portraying the whole grunge shebang in a certain way, and were sidelining and ignoring the influences which came together to launch the scene.


Why are you glad that it was Nirvana that made it big when it lead to the death of one of the members?

...we will leave questions of whether SubPop were very smart or just very lucky with the way the product was marketed for another day.

It wasn't an immaculate conception, it was an anti-movement which just happened by chance. It is true that other bands would have eventually made the break through, but I'm glad it was Nirvana.

Read my post that you quoted again: I was stating that the media were portraying the whole grunge shebang in a certain way, and were sidelining and ignoring the influences which came together to launch the scene.


Why are you glad that it was Nirvana that made it big when it lead to the death of one of the members?

...we will leave questions of whether SubPop were very smart or just very lucky with the way the product was marketed for another day.

Kurt Cobain would have died eventually anyways. Even if he hadn't started Nirvana, he most likely would have died young because of his mental and physical problems.

Nirvana - Pixies rip-offs.

Nirvana = Pixies + Black Flag + Sonic Youth with maybe a little bit of Black Sabbath thrown into the mix too.

[drifting off topic] Maybe you could explain to me one of those great mysteries of life - why Black Flag ever thought that getting Mr. Rollins to sing for them would be a good musical idea? [/drifting off topic]

One too many six packs?

On the other hand he practically invented so called 'tough guy hardcore'.

[drifting off topic] Maybe you could explain to me one of those great mysteries of life - why Black Flag ever thought that getting Mr. Rollins to sing for them would be a good musical idea? [/drifting off topic]

One too many six packs?

On the other hand he practically invented so called 'tough guy hardcore'.


Yeah, I guess he did "practically".

cough. cough. GG Allin's first single was released in '79, several months before a certain H. Garfield joined Black Flag... cough.

cough. cough. GG Allin's first single was released in '79, several months before a certain H. Garfield joined Black Flag... cough.

GG Allin wouldn't exactly qualify as 'tough guy'. He's more 'smell my ass-core'.

GG Allin was just gross out stuff, he probably wouldn't be considered too much an influence on Bane and Raised Fist type bands.

cough. cough. GG Allin's first single was released in '79, several months before a certain H. Garfield joined Black Flag... cough.

GG Allin wouldn't exactly qualify as 'tough guy'. He's more 'smell my ass-core'.

GG Allin was just gross out stuff, he probably wouldn't be considered too much an influence on Bane and Raised Fist type bands.

I would argue that repeatedly lacerating yourself and rubbing your own excrement into the wounds whilst performing, attacking members of the audience and his general disregard for the safety of himself and all those around him would qualify as "tough guy". Misguided, but "tough guy" nonetheless.

However, being a tough guy in a hardcore band does not equal being in a "tough guy" hardcore band. I'm in agreement that Rollins is largely responsible for that social phenomenon.

Jeez, first he turns Black Flag into a narcissistic jerkfest for himself, then he fails to exert any quality control over one of the most potentially interesting guitarists in early hardcore, and then he invents tough-guy hardcore. The man has a lot to answer for.*



* I don't think I can blame him for the fact that all the tough-guy hardcore bands seem almost totally unable to play a tune that isn't based around a muted open E chord, but don't worry, the guilty parties shall be found and punished.

I don't think I can blame him for the fact that all the tough-guy hardcore bands seem almost totally unable to play a tune that isn't based around a muted open E chord, but don't worry, the guilty parties shall be found and punished.

*watches Hatebreed and Throwdown run for their lives*

I don't think I can blame him for the fact that all the tough-guy hardcore bands seem almost totally unable to play a tune that isn't based around a muted open E chord, but don't worry, the guilty parties shall be found and punished.

*watches Hatebreed and Throwdown run for their lives*

Nirvana was a great band; Cobain was a whiner. Thank God he killed himself. :roll:

1989 sounds about right - just before the music mags tried to create a misguided hype about 'Britcore'. Rejected Records in Dublin but out the Hellkrusher complete discography on CD a few years back.

really!!! £"()&$ me!!! This lot were from Leeds....is this the same lot?

If so then I knew the guy who kicked off the band! :shock:

LOL mental!

I can't remember where they were from off the top of my head - the web seems to believe they were based in Newcastle, but I'm inclined not to trust that.

I am really trying to remember the blokes name....I think it was Simon??

Ah well never mind....Nirvana were still pretty average...some good tunes but nothing special....

Mind you I think Grohl seems to have matured as a musician with the Foo Fighters....

Nirvana's bass player's name is Krist Novoselic.

Yeah...but me and Bodies were talking about Hell Bastard .... (off topic thread drift is all:) )

Nirvana sucks, and will always continue to suck. Their lyrics are mindless, and well, in general they lack any musical skill whatsoever.

Nirvana are fine - overrated but fine. Bleach would be their best and rawest effort.

Besides Alice In Chains and Soundgarden beat them hands down.

Nirvana are fine - overrated but fine.

That sums it up quite nicely!

Nirvana sucks, and will always continue to suck. Their lyrics are mindless, and well, in general they lack any musical skill whatsoever.

That's because you're a mindless incompetent idiot who doesn't understand symbolism.

You need to ask though-

Did Kurt kill himself? There is a theory that his wife (Courtney Love) shot him, then pumped him full of heroin to make it look like a suicide. After all, it's awfully hard to shoot yourself with a shotgun, though I knew a man who used his toe to pull the trigger.

Also, if you read Kurt's recently released diary, it reveals a startling thought by Kurt that he was being stalked and plotted against...

"Just because your paranoid
Doesn't mean they're not after you"

-Territorial Pissings-
-Nevermind-


Nevermind was one of the best albums for grunge, but the worst for Nirvana as a whole, I think.

Nirvana might not have been technically skilled as musicians, and I can agree that the pseudo-"cult" that grew up around Cobain was a bit ridiculous. But they were very good songwriters and they had a great sound. People who dismiss it as just "noise" haven't been listening closely enough. As for the lyrics, they weren't exactly profound, but every once in a while, there would be a good line. In any case, the images conjured up by the words usually matched the mood of the song, even when the words themselves didn't make a lot of sense when put together.

I'm not a punk/alternative expert, but I'm a Pixies fan, and I can't understand how anyone could think that Nirvana was nothing but a Pixies clone. Nirvana's songwriting style was very distinctive, and nothing I've heard by the Pixies would ever be mistaken for a Nirvana song, except on a very superficial level. Nirvana definitely added something new.

Best Nirvana songs, in my opinion: Smells Like Teen Spirit, Heart-Shaped Box, Lithium, Drain You, On a Plain, Love Buzz (a cover, but awesome nonetheless), and Breed. And there are plenty of other good ones that I'm leaving out.

I'm not a punk/alternative expert, but I'm a Pixies fan, and I can't understand how anyone could think that Nirvana was nothing but a Pixies clone. Nirvana's songwriting style was very distinctive, and nothing I've heard by the Pixies would ever be mistaken for a Nirvana song, except on a very superficial level. Nirvana definitely added something new.


I never claimed they were a Pixies clone, nor that there were no other influences going on in there, but the fact that Nirvana lifted a lot of their song structures from the Pixies is undeniable. The Pixies introduced a fusion of melodic verses and dischordant choruses which relied heavily on dynamics for their effects - thus quiet melodic verse, dischordant screaming chorus, quiet melodic verse, dischordant screaming chorus, middle eight which begins melodically and quietly and then builds towards dischord and distortion and high volume, dischordant chorus (repeat chorus ad lib). Nirvana took this roadmap and definitely added their own elements to it, but didn't really ever progress much beyond it. I believe that even Cobain himself admitted that they were a massive influence on his songwriting style.

Sometimes I like their music. but other times I just think of them as another stupid three chord punk band.

A couple of issues raised here:

Hellbastard- was this the band signed to Earache Records? If so, I've got a song on the Grindcrusher compilation from around 1989-1990.

Grunge origins- I always felt the Manchester shoegazer crap had a bit of an influence on grunge. Didn't like any of it, so I ignored it all.

Nirvana- only grunge band I've ever been able to stomach. The rest annoy me.

Hellbastard- was this the band signed to Earache Records?

That is the band I was talking about anyhow, we still aren't sure if Vonners is talking about the same band or not.

If so, I've got a song on the Grindcrusher compilation from around 1989-1990.

They don't show up on the vinyl copy that I have, but I think the CD had more tracks (even if it didn't come with the famous Napalm Death "You Suffer"/Electro-Hippies "Mega-Armageddon Death Part III" single ... total playing time of both sides = 2 seconds).


Hmmm, the name 'Lawnmowerville'... late 80s hardcore bands... any relation to Lawnmower Deth?

Hellbastard- was this the band signed to Earache Records?

That is the band I was talking about anyhow, we still aren't sure if Vonners is talking about the same band or not.

If so, I've got a song on the Grindcrusher compilation from around 1989-1990.

They don't show up on the vinyl copy that I have, but I think the CD had more tracks (even if it didn't come with the famous Napalm Death "You Suffer"/Electro-Hippies "Mega-Armageddon Death Part III" single ... total playing time of both sides = 2 seconds).


Hmmm, the name 'Lawnmowerville'... late 80s hardcore bands... any relation to Lawnmower Deth?

Seventh Church Of The Apocalyptic Lawnmower was my religion recorded on my last census form. :wink: Love the old United Kingdom Apple Core stuff...

I have Grindcrusher on tape, so that's probably where I got the extra tracks.

Nirvana was good. I'm not gonna attack anyone that says they weren't whatever, you get you're opinion. I just think that if you look at the lyrics and read and get all the background information it all makes sense. There is a lot of thought you have to put into the lyrics to get meaning out of them and half the time there isn't really a meaning to them. But its a lot of play on word stupid shit and thats half the fun. Nirvana is for thinking to, at least more so than listening to just to rock out and shit. People that like to listening to music that's gonna make their head bang aren't generally gonna like Nirvana, but that's what Nirvana wanted. Well, Kurt at least. He hated the kind of people that listen to metal. Not that I'm saying people who listen to metal are like this, but at the time His enemies were racists, sexists, homophobes, etc. That attacked him and pissed him off. Kurt was very Anally PC and metal was just the opposite. Obviously he hated it. If you don't like his music. It's for a reason. Anyways, I'm rambling. So I'm done now.

Nirvana are my favorite band. Maybe not musically complex, but that doesn't really bother me. Their lyrics are good- and anyone who says that they are meaningless should try and read into them a bit more closely. They always relate to something.

Interesting thing about them is, I used to hate them for being just one of those popular bands...but I got persuaded into listening to Bleach about 4 years ago, and loved it. Then I went and bought Incesticide...that was decent. Followed it up with Nevermind, liked that, but a bit too poppy...but when I heard In Utero, I was blown away. It became my favorite album.

Nirvana are my favorite band. Maybe not musically complex, but that doesn't really bother me. Their lyrics are good- and anyone who says that they are meaningless should try and read into them a bit more closely. They always relate to something.

Interesting thing about them is, I used to hate them for being just one of those popular bands...but I got persuaded into listening to Bleach about 4 years ago, and loved it. Then I went and bought Incesticide...that was decent. Followed it up with Nevermind, liked that, but a bit too poppy...but when I heard In Utero, I was blown away. It became my favorite album.

What do you think of the two live albums? I think they blow big time, especially the acoustic one...

I dunno of anyone who acts as though Nirvana invented grunge. Grunge was going on since at least as early as '83, when the Melvins (and possibly Green River) formed. But perhaps the media likes to do so.

I find it funny how people like to perpetuate the myth that money = happiness.

Anyway, I can sum Nirvana up in 3 words: Best. Band. Ever.

Total over-hype.

well, in case ya hadnt guessed, im a nirvana fan (hey, name off top of head).
nirvana were incredible lyrically (some of the lyrics were so cryptically crafted), and their music was also pretty incredible!!
well, theres my two cents.
cheerio!

What do you think of the two live albums? I think they blow big time, especially the acoustic one...

They're okay...A few select songs off of each are decent...but I prefer the originals instead of many of the acoustic versions on Unplugged. In Muddy Banks, a few of the songs sound like he can't really be bothered.