NationStates Jolt Archive

Well most of you are gonna be mad with me but thats ok cuz I dont really care. I know how things have sunk to the bottom since Bush has taken over and weather people want to agree with me or not HE HAS RUINED EVERYTHING!!! He has given Musilms a bad name and U ALL KNOW IT!!! My mother is Sh'a Ismaili Musilm and my dad is Goan Portuguse [ look them up and do some research if u dont know] Each and every Musilm is different and I beg to differ on how all of them are the same and how they could possibly be bad people. It's always good to know your facts first before you go around saying stuff about not just Musilms but any CULTURE!!! I know I sound like I'm stuck on my views but thats just me u can agree to disagree with me on this. Also another thing read everything carefully before putting your reply, not just for this one but for all of what I have posted. Dont just read and skim through and post whatever comes to your head really really think about it.

I think that the terrorists/extremists have given muslims a bad name. It has very little to do with George Bush.

George Bush is the real terrorist/extremist.

Is the evil Bush likewise responsible for your inability to form coherent arguments and sentences?

Is the evil Bush likewise responsible for your ability to form coherent arguments and sentences?
Bush, the Jews, and the capitalists. Everyone's a victim these days. :P

Is the evil Bush likewise responsible for your ability to form coherent arguments and sentences?
Bush, the Jews, and the capitalists. Everyone's a victim these days. :P
Haha. I meant to write "inability", whoops.

I think that the terrorists/extremists have given muslims a bad name. It has very little to do with George Bush.
I have to seriously disagree with you on this one. George Bush tried to sell the world but especially the people of America that Saddam Hussein and the people of Iraq posed a "clear and present danger" to the people of America.

He suggested that Iraq had WMD and was rampant with terrorists. The ironic thing is that when he gave his address to the American people on that fateful night that bombs were dropping on Iraq, he mentioned neither one of these excuses.

Thousands of innocent Iraqis (men, women, and children) have paid with their lives through Bush's misdirected malice. Hundreds of US servicemen have needlessly died or have been seriously injured. Shame on him!!

I think that the terrorists/extremists have given muslims a bad name. It has very little to do with George Bush.
I have to seriously disagree with you on this one. George Bush tried to sell the world but especially the people of America that Saddam Hussein and the people of Iraq posed a "clear and present danger" to the people of America.

He suggested that Iraq had WMD and was rampant with terrorists. The ironic thing is that when he gave his address to the American people on that fateful night that bombs were dropping on Iraq, he mentioned neither one of these excuses.

Thousands of innocent Iraqis (men, women, and children) have paid with their lives through Bush's misdirected malice. Hundreds of US servicemen have needlessly died or have been seriously injured. Shame on him!!

well, we suspected he had WMD's because we sold them to him way back when. and its my personal opinion that he smuggled them out of the country before we invaded

Is the evil Bush likewise responsible for your ability to form coherent arguments and sentences?
Bush, the Jews, and the capitalists. Everyone's a victim these days. :P

well its mainly the jews of course, the capitalists and bush are just their pawns and lackeys. :twisted: :P :twisted:

I think that the terrorists/extremists have given muslims a bad name. It has very little to do with George Bush.
I have to seriously disagree with you on this one. George Bush tried to sell the world but especially the people of America that Saddam Hussein and the people of Iraq posed a "clear and present danger" to the people of America.

He suggested that Iraq had WMD and was rampant with terrorists. The ironic thing is that when he gave his address to the American people on that fateful night that bombs were dropping on Iraq, he mentioned neither one of these excuses.

Thousands of innocent Iraqis (men, women, and children) have paid with their lives through Bush's misdirected malice. Hundreds of US servicemen have needlessly died or have been seriously injured. Shame on him!!

well, we suspected he had WMD's because we sold them to him way back when. and its my personal opinion that he smuggled them out of the country before we invaded

Why didn't Bush mention these WMD in his speech? Why didn't he mention the terrorists? Because he couldn't justify them?

Unfortunately your opinion is irrelevant to the facts. IF there were WMD, WHY did Bush kick the UN inspectors out?

Iraq was a defenseless nation, ripe for the picking. However, I do think the administration seriously underestimated the powerful resistance of the unorganized Iraqis.

It was all about the oil. Iraq didn't have WMD. Its the oil. :twisted:

...

It was all about the oil. Iraq didn't have WMD. Its the oil. :twisted:

k, if thats what you want to go with, thats......... what the hell am i talking about? if we wanted oil then why the hell is gas going up and up and up? and venezuela has the worlds largest oil reserves

I guess also its kinda like a father-son thing...wittle Bush whats to be like big daddy bush. And we have no problem with Ven. and they aren't a dictatorship...or are they?

It was all about the oil. Iraq didn't have WMD. Its the oil. :twisted:

k, if thats what you want to go with, thats......... what the hell am i talking about? if we wanted oil then why the hell is gas going up and up and up? and venezuela has the worlds largest oil reserves
Actually Canada has the world's largest oil reserves.

It was all about the oil. Iraq didn't have WMD. Its the oil. :twisted:

k, if thats what you want to go with, thats......... what the hell am i talking about? if we wanted oil then why the hell is gas going up and up and up? and venezuela has the worlds largest oil reserves
Actually Canada has the world's largest oil reserves.

thats not what ive heard

Doesn't alaska have the biggest-how do you do that _______wrote: thing?

Actually Canada has the world's largest oil reserves.

thats not what ive heard
I've seen them. Really big I tells ya! Canada also has the world's largest supply of smug superiority. It powers the decrepit state-funded health care system!

ya dont say eh? Well Alaska borders Canada.

Actually Canada has the world's largest oil reserves.

thats not what ive heard
I've seen them. Really big I tells ya! Canada also has the world's largest supply of smug superiority. It powers the decrepit state-funded health care system!

lol, i like you already.

heres the the oil production per day of the US, Ven, and Canada

2.738- Canada
3.08- Ven.
8.054- U.S.

(all numbers are in the millions) :)

Has Bush said Muslims are evil? No. There goes that brilliant claim.

You sound like a pubescent little kid who's angry cause he has blue balls, so he's lashing out at a popular target.

See told you all...US=8.054!!! Go Alaska!!! But we dont want to disturb the wildlife...

Well...last time I checked blowing people up was an act of hostility...any one agree?

Well...last time I checked blowing people up was an act of hostility...any one agree?


or a wacky practile joke gone horribly awry.

It was all about the oil. Iraq didn't have WMD. Its the oil. :twisted:

k, if thats what you want to go with, thats......... what the hell am i talking about? if we wanted oil then why the hell is gas going up and up and up? and venezuela has the worlds largest oil reserves
Actually Canada has the world's largest oil reserves.

<sings>Blame Canada! Blame Canada!</sings>

Well...last time I checked blowing people up was an act of hostility...any one agree?


or a wacky practile joke gone horribly awry. :lol:

"It wasn't on purpose...I didn't mean to kill countless men, women, and children. Well they sould change their long ago traditions and stop firing guns in the air...we thought that was an act of hostility!!!" does this sound right to you? Me neither!

That happy face thats wiggling its upperlip is starting to freak me out. Its like omnipresent. Scary-hey Micheal Jackson------> :lol:

"It wasn't on purpose...I didn't mean to kill countless men, women, and children. Well they sould change their long ago traditions and stop firing guns in the air...we thought that was an act of hostility!!!" does this sound right to you? Me neither!

just giving an unruly crowd a "whiff of grapeshot" as one of the few great frenchmen once said.

Happiness, in regards to your post, there are many people in this world who are racist, intolerant, and dangerous. There is so much hate channeled for the wrong reasons. There will be peace, love and understanding to replace the ugliness that exists right now, but it will come at huge cost that will leave the perpetrators dumbfounded.

So have some faith. It will be better, but it will take time.

Actually Canada has the world's largest oil reserves.

thats not what ive heard
I've seen them. Really big I tells ya! Canada also has the world's largest supply of smug superiority. It powers the decrepit state-funded health care system!
Actually I was just stating a fact:

http://142.206.72.67/03/03b/03b_005c_e.htm

BTW, our health care system is in pretty good shape.

I can understand how people would be upset. However, if you are in the middle of a war zone with military patrols flying over on a regular basis, wouldn't it behoove one to hold off on firing weapons in the air? We have lost too many people for our guys not to take this seriously.

Either these people were not too bright or were doing it to get just the reaction they did. More than likely there was real anti-aircraft fire coming from nearby and the "wedding party" was set up to gain sympathy.

I am tired of our soldiers and our president being derided over civilian deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is regrettable that it happens, but we are not doing it on purpose. If anyone wants to talk about killing, ask the French what they did in Algeria, the Germans about WWII, the Belgians about the Congo and the Russians about their various anti-Jewish pogroms. And we won't even go into the Spanish Inquisition at this point.

If we truly wanted to commit genocide, we would be rank amateurs in comparison to our detractors in Europe.

Actually Canada has the world's largest oil reserves.

thats not what ive heard
I've seen them. Really big I tells ya! Canada also has the world's largest supply of smug superiority. It powers the decrepit state-funded health care system!
Actually I was just stating a fact:

http://142.206.72.67/03/03b/03b_005c_e.htm

BTW, our health care system is in pretty good shape.
Then why are the state run insurance offices and hospitals being killed by private insurers and medical clinics? I've been reading article after article lately that the state run medical industry is attempting to get the private sector in that field neutered because they can't compete with them.

Actually Canada has the world's largest oil reserves.

thats not what ive heard
I've seen them. Really big I tells ya! Canada also has the world's largest supply of smug superiority. It powers the decrepit state-funded health care system!
Actually I was just stating a fact:

http://142.206.72.67/03/03b/03b_005c_e.htm

BTW, our health care system is in pretty good shape.
Then why are the state run insurance offices and hospitals being killed by private insurers and medical clinics? I've been reading article after article lately that the state run medical industry is attempting to get the private sector in that field neutered because they can't compete with them.
There are some private health care facilities that are catering to big money, but Canadians still have universal access to health care. Personally speaking, I think there is some tolerance to some private health care services to keep the doctors here in Canada.

Some right wing advocates would like to see a system modelled after the US, but that system is about 3 times more costly with very insignificant difference to level of health care provided.

Then why are the state run insurance offices and hospitals being killed by private insurers and medical clinics? I've been reading article after article lately that the state run medical industry is attempting to get the private sector in that field neutered because they can't compete with them.
There's hope yet. Natives just figured out they can host private clinics on their reserves. Private healthcare is coming to Canada!

Of course this creates a dilemma for the Canadian lefties. The only way to preserve their precious statist healthcare will be to smash the natives that they've emotionally invested in. What is more dear to them? Expect natives to be demonized shortly.

Well everyone thats not an American needs to shut up and sit down.
People here in the US that complain about Bush or the conflict are scared or uninformed.
For 10 years the US watched as the UN pussy-footed around Irag, getting nothing done. The majority of us are thankful that now we have a President with some balls.
Also the majority of us strongly feels that the US needs to mind our own buisness and stop putting our nose in other people's going ons.
All we want to do is get off work come home watch our shows,play our games and or enjoy out time with family and friends. We could really care less what direction or in whos image you prayed to. live and let live.

but some years back the US got off getting into others people business and it upset some folks added on the fact that they live in a pig pen and are about half jealious of our lives here, hate us.

Us Americans like everyone we could care less, your skin color, hair color, faith or creed. but here lately we've gotten our belly full of listen to alot of " behind the wall "protestors.

I hear and see alot of European countries cussing the US, well heres what ya do. Stop watching Amercan TV shows, throw away all your Amercian made,manufactured products, don't listen or watch US producted music and movies... and stop wishing you where lucky enough to be born in the USA.

It's like cussing the mother while sucking on the tit.


p.s To all of you that use or have Nazi ideals, slogans. Grow-up dumb ass

Well most of you are gonna be mad with me but thats ok cuz I dont really care. I know how things have sunk to the bottom since Bush has taken over and weather people want to agree with me or not HE HAS RUINED EVERYTHING!!! He has given Musilms a bad name and U ALL KNOW IT!!! My mother is Sh'a Ismaili Musilm and my dad is Goan Portuguse [ look them and do some research if u dont know] Each and every Musilm is different and I beg to differ on how all of them are the same and how they could possibly be bad people. It's always good to know your facts first before you go around saying stuff about not just Musilms but any CULTURE!!! I know I sound like I'm stuck on my views but thats just me u can agree to disagree with me on this. Also another thing read everything carefully before putting your reply, not just for this one but for all of what I have posted. Dont just read and skim through and post whatever comes to your head really really think about it.


Oh be quiet.

George Bush is the real terrorist/extremist.


:roll:


That post made me understand your name alot better.

Well everyone thats not an American needs to shut up and sit down.
Well I am sitting down, but I do have the right to express myself in this "free" society.

People here in the US that complain about Bush or the conflict are scared or uninformed.
That would be your opinion. Will you give them YOUR truth?

For 10 years the US watched as the UN pussy-footed around Irag, getting nothing done.
That have anything to do with diplomacy?

The majority of us are thankful that now we have a President with some balls.
The recent polls say otherwise?

Also the majority of us strongly feels that the US needs to mind our own buisness and stop putting our nose in other people's going ons.
Then why did you invade Iraq?

All we want to do is get off work come home watch our shows,play our games and or enjoy out time with family and friends.
Most people do?

We could really care less what direction or in whos image you prayed to. live and let live.
I believe in live and let live too.

but some years back the US got off getting into others people business and it upset some folks added on the fact that they live in a pig pen and are about half jealious of our lives here, hate us.
I cannot understand where you are going here. Who lives in a pig pen and who is jealous?

Us Americans like everyone we could care less, your skin color, hair color, faith or creed.
Well there many documented cases that might disprove this. I have seen lots of that here on this board even.

but here lately we've gotten our belly full of listen to alot of " behind the wall "protestors.
Who is "we"? Are you speaking for every American on this board?

I hear and see alot of European countries cussing the US, well heres what ya do.
They also say nice things. You advocate "freedom of speech" or is that just a saying where you are from?

Stop watching Amercan TV shows, throw away all your Amercian made,manufactured products, don't listen or watch US producted music and movies...
That could severely damage your economy.

and stop wishing you where lucky enough to be born in the USA.
I feel very lucky being born where I was.

It's like cussing the mother while sucking on the tit.
You mean the US is like a mother to the rest of the world? Well you are entitled to your opinion. You can expand your mind if you keep it open?

Well most of you are gonna be mad with me but thats ok cuz I dont really care. I know how things have sunk to the bottom since Bush has taken over and weather people want to agree with me or not HE HAS RUINED EVERYTHING!!! He has given Musilms a bad name and U ALL KNOW IT!!! My mother is Sh'a Ismaili Musilm and my dad is Goan Portuguse [ look them and do some research if u dont know] Each and every Musilm is different and I beg to differ on how all of them are the same and how they could possibly be bad people. It's always good to know your facts first before you go around saying stuff about not just Musilms but any CULTURE!!! I know I sound like I'm stuck on my views but thats just me u can agree to disagree with me on this. Also another thing read everything carefully before putting your reply, not just for this one but for all of what I have posted. Dont just read and skim through and post whatever comes to your head really really think about it.I think that the extremists are to blame for people's view of muslims, Happeniess. Sorry.
Don't get me wrong, I am anything but pro-Bush, but I don't think he can be held responsible for this. It wasn't exactly government spin when half the people on the planet saw a 747 crash into the North Tower.
Then again, he was the one to runa nd hide :lol:

Well most of you are gonna be mad with me but thats ok cuz I dont really care. I know how things have sunk to the bottom since Bush has taken over and weather people want to agree with me or not HE HAS RUINED EVERYTHING!!! He has given Musilms a bad name and U ALL KNOW IT!!! My mother is Sh'a Ismaili Musilm and my dad is Goan Portuguse [ look them and do some research if u dont know] Each and every Musilm is different and I beg to differ on how all of them are the same and how they could possibly be bad people. It's always good to know your facts first before you go around saying stuff about not just Musilms but any CULTURE!!! I know I sound like I'm stuck on my views but thats just me u can agree to disagree with me on this. Also another thing read everything carefully before putting your reply, not just for this one but for all of what I have posted. Dont just read and skim through and post whatever comes to your head really really think about it.I think that the extremists are to blame for people's view of muslims, Happeniess. Sorry.
Don't get me wrong, I am anything but pro-Bush, but I don't think he can be held responsible for this. It wasn't exactly government spin when half the people on the planet saw a 747 crash into the North Tower.
Then again, he was the one to runa nd hide :lol:Run and hide? That's cut-and-dry Secret Service policy: they have to get the President to a secure location during time of crisis.

You stay out of this, Holbrookia. You have no idea who you are dealing with. I think it's safe to assume that your father wasn't in the North Tower of the WTC on 9/11.

Run and hide? That's cut-and-dry Secret Service policy: they have to get the President to a secure location during time of crisis.Thats true. Even the President can't do anything about this, the Secret Service WILL get him to a secure location, whether his feet touch the ground or not is at their discretion.

You stay out of this, Holbrookia. You have no idea who you are dealing with. I think it's safe to assume that your father wasn't in the North Tower of the WTC on 9/11. :lol: :roll:
Man, you don't care what kind of bullshit you post here, do you? We live in the midwest, and I called you two days ago. YOUR FATHER ANSWERED THE PHONE, for christ's sakes!

WATCH OUT FOR THIS GUY. I HAVE KNOWN HIM FOR YEARS AND HE IS A HABITUAL LIAR WHO CAN'T DRIVE.
By the way, Carter, which floor was he "on?"

By the way, Carter, which floor was he "on?"95. He barely survived.

I don't know you, and you know it.

Canuck one thing about polls in the USA, is that they are media bias. The media in the USA is a propaganda mogul. And for some reason our media always leans towards the liberal democratic party ( rulling out the theory that the US media industry is controled by Jews ).

I met a girl awhile back and she worked for some news agency in New York, I don't remember the exact one.
And that question about polls came up. She said that when they went for popularity polls on President Bush they would poll people protesting infront of the white house and people at unemployed agencies.

The best way to get a true feeling of the USA is ask 6 americans at random and not 6 Americans that are all on the same bus going to a Anti-Bush rally.

Oh yea Canada is not seperate from the USA :) we consider ya'll our Canuck cousin. I don't think theres been two countries that have had closer ties. Shoot half of the Canadians live in the US lol j/k

By the way, Carter, which floor was he "on?"95. He barely survived.

I don't know you, and you know it. :shock: Really? :shock:
That must be some kind of miracle, because he was only three stories above where the plane hit, meaning that if he wasn't incinerated on impact he wouldn't have escaped, because none of the three fire escape staircases were passable, helicopters couldn't reach the roof, and, well, the elevators were out for obvious reasons.

Bush isnt evil, just an idiot

It was all about the oil. Iraq didn't have WMD. Its the oil. :twisted:

k, if thats what you want to go with, thats......... what the hell am i talking about? if we wanted oil then why the hell is gas going up and up and up? and venezuela has the worlds largest oil reserves
Venezuala has a dictatorship, doesnt it?

Anyway, Iraq DID have WMDs. Oh, wait, I forgot, Sarin doesnt count. Excuse me, I forgot that were playing by Democratic rules :P

The best way to get a true feeling of the USA is ask 6 americans at random and not 6 Americans that are all on the same bus going to a Anti-Bush rally.

LOL!

I fear Mr. Bushs politics have destroyed all the advances the international community made after WWII: The UN, international law, the US credibility as a leading nation on freedom and ethics, true partnership between nations, the use of force as a last resort, etc.

Welcome back to Emperor Wilhelm II. style nationalisitc Imperialism...

Well most of you are gonna be mad with me but thats ok cuz I dont really care. I know how things have sunk to the bottom since Bush has taken over and weather people want to agree with me or not HE HAS RUINED EVERYTHING!!! He has given Musilms a bad name and U ALL KNOW IT!!! My mother is Sh'a Ismaili Musilm and my dad is Goan Portuguse [ look them and do some research if u dont know] Each and every Musilm is different and I beg to differ on how all of them are the same and how they could possibly be bad people. It's always good to know your facts first before you go around saying stuff about not just Musilms but any CULTURE!!! I know I sound like I'm stuck on my views but thats just me u can agree to disagree with me on this. Also another thing read everything carefully before putting your reply, not just for this one but for all of what I have posted. Dont just read and skim through and post whatever comes to your head really really think about it.

Since when did the reputation of Muslims (don't they blow up buses full of school children?) constitute "everything"?

It was all about the oil. Iraq didn't have WMD. Its the oil. :twisted:

k, if thats what you want to go with, thats......... what the hell am i talking about? if we wanted oil then why the hell is gas going up and up and up? and venezuela has the worlds largest oil reserves


Oil prices are going up due to increased demand, partly as a result of a global economic boom, affecting, in particular - China. It is also due to the increasing instability of the Middle East and Saudi Arabia in particular. These reasons do not mean that oil was not a factor in the decision to invade Iraq and I fail to see how they could be.

Well most of you are gonna be mad with me but thats ok cuz I dont really care. I know how things have sunk to the bottom since Bush has taken over and weather people want to agree with me or not HE HAS RUINED EVERYTHING!!! He has given Musilms a bad name and U ALL KNOW IT!!! My mother is Sh'a Ismaili Musilm and my dad is Goan Portuguse [ look them and do some research if u dont know] Each and every Musilm is different and I beg to differ on how all of them are the same and how they could possibly be bad people. It's always good to know your facts first before you go around saying stuff about not just Musilms but any CULTURE!!! I know I sound like I'm stuck on my views but thats just me u can agree to disagree with me on this. Also another thing read everything carefully before putting your reply, not just for this one but for all of what I have posted. Dont just read and skim through and post whatever comes to your head really really think about it.

Since when did the reputation of Muslims (don't they blow up buses full of school children?) constitute "everything"?


Saying Muslims blow up buses full of school children makes about as much sense as saying that Americans torture Iraqis.

DP

Well most of you are gonna be mad with me but thats ok cuz I dont really care. I know how things have sunk to the bottom since Bush has taken over and weather people want to agree with me or not HE HAS RUINED EVERYTHING!!! He has given Musilms a bad name and U ALL KNOW IT!!! My mother is Sh'a Ismaili Musilm and my dad is Goan Portuguse [ look them and do some research if u dont know] Each and every Musilm is different and I beg to differ on how all of them are the same and how they could possibly be bad people. It's always good to know your facts first before you go around saying stuff about not just Musilms but any CULTURE!!! I know I sound like I'm stuck on my views but thats just me u can agree to disagree with me on this. Also another thing read everything carefully before putting your reply, not just for this one but for all of what I have posted. Dont just read and skim through and post whatever comes to your head really really think about it.

Since when did the reputation of Muslims (don't they blow up buses full of school children?) constitute "everything"?


Saying Muslims blow up buses full of school children makes about as much sense as saying that Americans torture Iraqis.

True. Though I tend to believe that the former has happened a few more times than the latter, especially when we get new suicide bombing reports almost daily, whereas the media is still talking about the same "torture" that they initially reported months ago.

My question, however, was not answered. Muslim reputation = "everything"?

It was all about the oil. Iraq didn't have WMD. Its the oil. :twisted:

k, if thats what you want to go with, thats......... what the hell am i talking about? if we wanted oil then why the hell is gas going up and up and up? and venezuela has the worlds largest oil reserves
Venezuala has a dictatorship, doesnt it?

Anyway, Iraq DID have WMDs. Oh, wait, I forgot, Sarin doesnt count. Excuse me, I forgot that were playing by Democratic rules :P

I think you've made a typo there - you meant to say "Iraq did have a WMD" but you said they had "WMDs" implying that they have more than one, which of course would be false.

I think the question is did that one shell of sarin pose enough of a clear and present danger to the United States to warrant an invasion?

Answer in your own time.

I can understand how people would be upset. However, if you are in the middle of a war zone with military patrols flying over on a regular basis, wouldn't it behoove one to hold off on firing weapons in the air? We have lost too many people for our guys not to take this seriously.
Sooooo you want them to change THEIR customs in THEIR own land?

Either these people were not too bright or were doing it to get just the reaction they did. More than likely there was real anti-aircraft fire coming from nearby and the "wedding party" was set up to gain sympathy.
Let me see if I got this right. You think they staged the wedding to gain sympathy? I guess some people will go to any lengths to sell their crap. There was no real anti-aircraft activity in the area, or else the US would have mentioned it in the news brief?

I am tired of our soldiers and our president being derided over civilian deaths in Iraq.......
Well, the US shouldn't be killing anyone in Iraq. What did Iraq do to the US?

It was all about the oil. Iraq didn't have WMD. Its the oil. :twisted:

k, if thats what you want to go with, thats......... what the hell am i talking about? if we wanted oil then why the hell is gas going up and up and up? and venezuela has the worlds largest oil reserves
Venezuala has a dictatorship, doesnt it?

Anyway, Iraq DID have WMDs. Oh, wait, I forgot, Sarin doesnt count. Excuse me, I forgot that were playing by Democratic rules :P

I think you've made a typo there - you meant to say "Iraq did have a WMD" but you said they had "WMDs" implying that they have more than one, which of course would be false.

I think the question is did that one shell of sarin pose enough of a clear and present danger to the United States to warrant an invasion? Let me answer this question with a question..suppose this one shell had made it into the hands of Al-Queda rather then some inept Iraqi insurgent who didn't know how to arm the weapon...imagine that same AL-Queda operative blowing up now that same weapon in the confines of the NYC subway system or at Niagara Falls or Disneyland during peak tourist hours?...Then would it pose enough of a threat?

Answer in your own time.

It was all about the oil. Iraq didn't have WMD. Its the oil. :twisted:

k, if thats what you want to go with, thats......... what the hell am i talking about? if we wanted oil then why the hell is gas going up and up and up? and venezuela has the worlds largest oil reserves
Venezuala has a dictatorship, doesnt it?

Anyway, Iraq DID have WMDs. Oh, wait, I forgot, Sarin doesnt count. Excuse me, I forgot that were playing by Democratic rules :P

I think you've made a typo there - you meant to say "Iraq did have a WMD" but you said they had "WMDs" implying that they have more than one, which of course would be false.

I think the question is did that one shell of sarin pose enough of a clear and present danger to the United States to warrant an invasion? Let me answer this question with a question..suppose this one shell had made it into the hands of Al-Queda rather then some inept Iraqi insurgent who didn't know how to arm the weapon...imagine that same AL-Queda operative blowing up now that same weapon in the confines of the NYC subway system or at Niagara Falls or Disneyland during peak tourist hours?...Then would it pose enough of a threat?

Answer in your own time.

I suppose it would, but then given that the Baathist regime was a secular one and that there was no evidence of collaboration between Saddams regime and Al-Qaeda, this one shell in the hands of Al-Q would not provide the U.S with a reason to depose Saddam.

I could also ask you if you think the hypothetical attack you mentioned would have killed more people than have died serving in Iraq.

It was all about the oil. Iraq didn't have WMD. Its the oil. :twisted:

k, if thats what you want to go with, thats......... what the hell am i talking about? if we wanted oil then why the hell is gas going up and up and up? and venezuela has the worlds largest oil reserves
Venezuala has a dictatorship, doesnt it?

Anyway, Iraq DID have WMDs. Oh, wait, I forgot, Sarin doesnt count. Excuse me, I forgot that were playing by Democratic rules :P

I think you've made a typo there - you meant to say "Iraq did have a WMD" but you said they had "WMDs" implying that they have more than one, which of course would be false.

I think the question is did that one shell of sarin pose enough of a clear and present danger to the United States to warrant an invasion? Let me answer this question with a question..suppose this one shell had made it into the hands of Al-Queda rather then some inept Iraqi insurgent who didn't know how to arm the weapon...imagine that same AL-Queda operative blowing up now that same weapon in the confines of the NYC subway system or at Niagara Falls or Disneyland during peak tourist hours?...Then would it pose enough of a threat?

Answer in your own time.

I suppose it would, but then given that the Baathist regime was a secular one and that there was no evidence of collaboration between Saddams regime and Al-Qaeda, this one shell in the hands of Al-Q would not provide the U.S with a reason to depose Saddam.

I could also ask you if you think the hypothetical attack you mentioned would have killed more people than have died serving in Iraq.

It was all about the oil. Iraq didn't have WMD. Its the oil. :twisted:

k, if thats what you want to go with, thats......... what the hell am i talking about? if we wanted oil then why the hell is gas going up and up and up? and venezuela has the worlds largest oil reserves
Venezuala has a dictatorship, doesnt it?

Anyway, Iraq DID have WMDs. Oh, wait, I forgot, Sarin doesnt count. Excuse me, I forgot that were playing by Democratic rules :P

I think you've made a typo there - you meant to say "Iraq did have a WMD" but you said they had "WMDs" implying that they have more than one, which of course would be false.

I think the question is did that one shell of sarin pose enough of a clear and present danger to the United States to warrant an invasion? Let me answer this question with a question..suppose this one shell had made it into the hands of Al-Queda rather then some inept Iraqi insurgent who didn't know how to arm the weapon...imagine that same AL-Queda operative blowing up now that same weapon in the confines of the NYC subway system or at Niagara Falls or Disneyland during peak tourist hours?...Then would it pose enough of a threat?

Answer in your own time.

I suppose it would, but then given that the Baathist regime was a secular one and that there was no evidence of collaboration between Saddams regime and Al-Qaeda, this one shell in the hands of Al-Q would not provide the U.S with a reason to depose Saddam.

I could also ask you if you think the hypothetical attack you mentioned would have killed more people than have died serving in Iraq.

I don't know if Bush has given Muslims a bad name, but he's definitely given America a bad name.

I don't know if Bush has given Muslims a bad name, but he's definitely given America a bad name.

It was all about the oil. Iraq didn't have WMD. Its the oil. :twisted:

k, if thats what you want to go with, thats......... what the hell am i talking about? if we wanted oil then why the hell is gas going up and up and up? and venezuela has the worlds largest oil reserves
Venezuala has a dictatorship, doesnt it?

Anyway, Iraq DID have WMDs. Oh, wait, I forgot, Sarin doesnt count. Excuse me, I forgot that were playing by Democratic rules :P

I think you've made a typo there - you meant to say "Iraq did have a WMD" but you said they had "WMDs" implying that they have more than one, which of course would be false.

I think the question is did that one shell of sarin pose enough of a clear and present danger to the United States to warrant an invasion? Let me answer this question with a question..suppose this one shell had made it into the hands of Al-Queda rather then some inept Iraqi insurgent who didn't know how to arm the weapon...imagine that same AL-Queda operative blowing up now that same weapon in the confines of the NYC subway system or at Niagara Falls or Disneyland during peak tourist hours?...Then would it pose enough of a threat?

Answer in your own time.
I think Al-Queda has used much deadlier weapons than some small containers that could be found in Iraq, that were leftovers from the Iran/Iraq War. Remember the 4 hijacked airliners?

Why do you keep trying to stretch this WMD topic Salishe? Bush couldn't have been that concerned about them, or he would have let the UN inspectors finish their valuable work in the first place.

Why do you keep trying to stretch this WMD topic Salishe? Bush couldn't have been that concerned about them, or he would have let the UN inspectors finish their valuable work in the first place.
Saddam was misleading inspectors with things like a 1000+ page dossier that still had missing WMD info, so why should we think that he would change when he was showing all the signs of misleading inspectors again?

I agree with the title of this thread, however, the lack of coherent thought out why Bush ruined everything has me shaking my head.

Why do you keep trying to stretch this WMD topic Salishe? Bush couldn't have been that concerned about them, or he would have let the UN inspectors finish their valuable work in the first place.
Saddam was misleading inspectors with things like a 1000+ page dossier that still had missing WMD info, so why should we think that he would change when he was showing all the signs of misleading inspectors again?
Regardless, the inspectors had access to anywhere they wanted to go, including Saddam's palaces and what were they finding?

NOTHING, NADA, ZILTCH

However, they did find a few rockets that could travel a whole 120 miles, which was about 10 miles further than allowable, and the UN was cutting them up when Bush ordered the UN inspectors out.

The UN team WAS making progress and asked for additional manpower to speed up the process, besides, France, Russia, and China were ALL for allowing the inspectors more time.

Lets face facts. Iraq was NO threat to the US, and many people outside the US knew that Bush had a hidden agenda.

Why do you keep trying to stretch this WMD topic Salishe? Bush couldn't have been that concerned about them, or he would have let the UN inspectors finish their valuable work in the first place.
Saddam was misleading inspectors with things like a 1000+ page dossier that still had missing WMD info, so why should we think that he would change when he was showing all the signs of misleading inspectors again?
Regardless, the inspectors had access to anywhere they wanted to go, including Saddam's palaces and what were they finding?

NOTHING, NADA, ZILTCH

However, they did find a few rockets that could travel a whole 120 miles, which was about 10 miles further than allowable, and the UN was cutting them up when Bush ordered the UN inspectors out.

The UN team WAS making progress and asked for additional manpower to speed up the process, besides, France, Russia, and China were ALL for allowing the inspectors more time.

Lets face facts. Iraq was NO threat to the US, and many people outside the US knew that Bush had a hidden agenda.So, Saddam should still be in power. I suppose you liked Stalin and Mao too?

Why do you keep trying to stretch this WMD topic Salishe? Bush couldn't have been that concerned about them, or he would have let the UN inspectors finish their valuable work in the first place.
Saddam was misleading inspectors with things like a 1000+ page dossier that still had missing WMD info, so why should we think that he would change when he was showing all the signs of misleading inspectors again?
Regardless, the inspectors had access to anywhere they wanted to go, including Saddam's palaces and what were they finding?

NOTHING, NADA, ZILTCH

However, they did find a few rockets that could travel a whole 120 miles, which was about 10 miles further than allowable, and the UN was cutting them up when Bush ordered the UN inspectors out.

The UN team WAS making progress and asked for additional manpower to speed up the process, besides, France, Russia, and China were ALL for allowing the inspectors more time.

Lets face facts. Iraq was NO threat to the US, and many people outside the US knew that Bush had a hidden agenda.So, Saddam should still be in power. I suppose you liked Stalin and Mao too?
Did I say I supported Saddam? If anyone supported Saddam, it was the US. I think the US has made a huge mistake by going into Iraq and if you can't see that, then you can't see the whole picture?

Did I say I supported Saddam? If anyone supported Saddam, it was the US. I think the US has made a huge mistake by going into Iraq and if you can't see that, then you can't see the whole picture?
The US and Jean Chretien's family (TotalFinaElf anyone?).

But here's a question. Saddam is still alive. Is he the legitimate ruler? Should he be reinstated as "president" of Iraq? Or should we all get behind trying to form a liberal democracy in Iraq? Or should we do neither and keep taking shots at "Dubya" "Rummy" and "Wolfie"? Justify your answer.

As far as "a huge mistake", that was over a year ago. Imagine going on about the Dieppe fiasco (where Canada lost more lives in one day than the Americans have lost in Iraq in over a year) after the Normandy invasions. Maybe we should start thinking about winning instead of wallowing in a quagmire of our own making.

Did I say I supported Saddam? If anyone supported Saddam, it was the US. I think the US has made a huge mistake by going into Iraq and if you can't see that, then you can't see the whole picture?
The US and Jean Chretien's family (TotalFinaElf anyone?).

But here's a question. Saddam is still alive. Is he the legitimate ruler? Should he be reinstated as "president" of Iraq? Or should we all get behind trying to form a liberal democracy in Iraq? Or should we do neither and keep taking shots at "Dubya" "Rummy" and "Wolfie"? Justify your answer.

As far as "a huge mistake", that was over a year ago. Imagine going on about the Dieppe fiasco (where Canada lost more lives in one day than the Americans have lost in Iraq in over a year) after the Normandy invasions. Maybe we should start thinking about winning instead of wallowing in a quagmire of our own making.
Well lets get back to reality. This was supposed to be a war against terrorism, not a war against a helpless Iraq.

Has the war in Iraq improved or harmed American interests? I would say greatly harmed. Most of the Arab world is just not too happy with Mr. Bush right now, especially after the recent indiscretions by US troops/intelligence with Iraqi prisoners.

There is no going back.

Has the war in Iraq improved or harmed American interests? I would say greatly harmed. Most of the Arab world is just not too happy with Mr. Bush right now, especially after the recent indiscretions by US troops/intelligence with Iraqi prisoners.

Ya, whatever, the Arab (male) world gladly accepted torture and abuse, plus mass-murder. The Abu Ghraib scandal is hugely conflated by the media. The Aryan and Japanese "worlds" weren't too happy with FDR in 1944. The Confederate "world" wasn't too happy with Abraham Lincoln. So?

There is no going back.

Ahh, you do understand!

Why do you keep trying to stretch this WMD topic Salishe? Bush couldn't have been that concerned about them, or he would have let the UN inspectors finish their valuable work in the first place.
Saddam was misleading inspectors with things like a 1000+ page dossier that still had missing WMD info, so why should we think that he would change when he was showing all the signs of misleading inspectors again?
Regardless, the inspectors had access to anywhere they wanted to go, including Saddam's palaces and what were they finding?

NOTHING, NADA, ZILTCH

However, they did find a few rockets that could travel a whole 120 miles, which was about 10 miles further than allowable, and the UN was cutting them up when Bush ordered the UN inspectors out.

The UN team WAS making progress and asked for additional manpower to speed up the process, besides, France, Russia, and China were ALL for allowing the inspectors more time.

Lets face facts. Iraq was NO threat to the US, and many people outside the US knew that Bush had a hidden agenda.So, Saddam should still be in power. I suppose you liked Stalin and Mao too?


It is a good thing that Saddam is no longer in power, of course that does not mean that the war was a good thing since there are other considerations to be taken into account such as:

1. The credibility of international laws and institutions have been completely undermined, and before these are disregarded as irrelevant I would remind many people that the Bush administration was all too happy to talk about the ones that Saddam had violated.

2. The diplomatic and political isolation that the U.S now faces, it will find it much harder to win allies and influence the decisions of others after Iraq.

3. The increase in support for Islamic extremist groups across the Middle East at the expense of more moderate, liberal Islamic opinion thus hampering the process of reform which was under way in many countries and causing a massive process of destabilisation across the whole of the Arab world.

4. The increased threat of terrorism that the western world now faces due to the establishment of what many perceive as a focal point of American, anti-Islamic imperialism.

5. The massive amounts of public cynicism which have arisen, undermining the credibility and integrity of those governments that supported the war and making it much harder for those countries to pursue an aggressive foreign policy in the future if and when it becomes necessary.

It is not as simple to say that "the world is a better place without Saddam and for that reason alone the war is justified" since there are wider considerations to be taken into account, which that argument either chooses to ignore, or is simply not aware of.

3. The increase in support for Islamic extremist groups across the Middle East at the expense of more moderate, liberal Islamic opinion thus hampering the process of reform which was under way in many countries and causing a massive process of destabilisation across the whole of the Arab world.

"moderate, liberal Islamic opinion"? Where was this? I'll tell you where. It was buried in a mass grave outside of Fallujah. It's buried in unmarked graves in the Saudi desert. And it's buried in mass graves outside Damascus. Massive destabilisation is exactly what the Arab (male) world needs.

4. The increased threat of terrorism that the western world now faces due to the establishment of what many perceive as a focal point of American, anti-Islamic imperialism.

Ahh right... so that explains all those terrorist attacks in Los Angeles, Seattle, and Chicago. Oh... wait.

*stifles laughter*

...'bush'....

*streaks out of thread*

Why do you keep trying to stretch this WMD topic Salishe? Bush couldn't have been that concerned about them, or he would have let the UN inspectors finish their valuable work in the first place.
Saddam was misleading inspectors with things like a 1000+ page dossier that still had missing WMD info, so why should we think that he would change when he was showing all the signs of misleading inspectors again?
Regardless, the inspectors had access to anywhere they wanted to go, including Saddam's palaces and what were they finding?

NOTHING, NADA, ZILTCH

However, they did find a few rockets that could travel a whole 120 miles, which was about 10 miles further than allowable, and the UN was cutting them up when Bush ordered the UN inspectors out.

The UN team WAS making progress and asked for additional manpower to speed up the process, besides, France, Russia, and China were ALL for allowing the inspectors more time.

Lets face facts. Iraq was NO threat to the US, and many people outside the US knew that Bush had a hidden agenda.So, Saddam should still be in power. I suppose you liked Stalin and Mao too?


It is a good thing that Saddam is no longer in power, of course that does not mean that the war was a good thing since there are other considerations to be taken into account such as:

1. The credibility of international laws and institutions have been completely undermined, and before these are disregarded as irrelevant I would remind many people that the Bush administration was all too happy to talk about the ones that Saddam had violated.

CORRECT

2. The diplomatic and political isolation that the U.S now faces, it will find it much harder to win allies and influence the decisions of others after Iraq.

CORRECT

3. The increase in support for Islamic extremist groups across the Middle East at the expense of more moderate, liberal Islamic opinion thus hampering the process of reform which was under way in many countries and causing a massive process of destabilisation across the whole of the Arab world.

CORRECT

4. The increased threat of terrorism that the western world now faces due to the establishment of what many perceive as a focal point of American, anti-Islamic imperialism.

CORRECT

5. The massive amounts of public cynicism which have arisen, undermining the credibility and integrity of those governments that supported the war and making it much harder for those countries to pursue an aggressive foreign policy in the future if and when it becomes necessary.

CORRECT

It is not as simple to say that "the world is a better place without Saddam and for that reason alone the war is justified" since there are wider considerations to be taken into account, which that argument either chooses to ignore, or is simply not aware of.

Yet again CORRECT

CORRECTness is mine.

CanuckHeaven:

Yes, they should change certain traditions during times of war. And I would question that this is a long-standing tradition that is unalterable. They fire guns in the in celebration in Kentucky and no one would claim that is some sort of sacrosanct cultural tradition. They also fire them in the air here in Arizona. And what do they get for it? Arrested. Firing a gun in the air is a misuse of the firearm in the first place as it puts anyone within the immediate vicinity in danger.

By the way, the news release said specifically that there had been reports of "ground fire" in the area. This can range from small arms fire all the way up to anti-aircraft. Of course, the CBC may not have reported this, as they are about as careful and truthful about their reporting on our country as Pravda used to be.

As for what the Iraqis done to us - well, nothing. There are some citizens of Iraq that are fighting our soldiers but, once again, this is a war. The question was not what the Iraqis were doing as a people, but what Saddam Hussein and his government were up to. While they did not make a direct attack on us they did violate international law with their invasion of Kuwait. After being removed from Kuwait, they were given specific orders by the United Nations to maintain a no-fly zone in the south and the north as well as destroy all WMD's. While the question of whether the WMD's were destroyed or just shipped out of the country may never be resolved, the fact that they were repeatedly violating U.N. mandates by firing on aircraft patrols from 1991 up until the resumption of hostilities in 2003 IS documented fact.

The other important point to look at is that this was NOT a new war, but a resumption of hostilities. The Hussein government did not live up to its end of the agreement. Firing on patrols was strictly forbidden (although not all U.N. member states would agree since this was a U.S.-led policy, and the U.N. basically exists at this point to weaken American foreign policy) and hostilities should have been resumed by 1995-1996 at the latest. It would have made more sense than wasting our troops in places like Haiti, Somalia, Bosnia and Kosovo throughout the 1990s. And please do not start any lectures about protecting human rights as the U.N. did absolutely nothing about Rwanda.

Keep in mind that we did not go into this to kill innocent Iraqis no matter what your news organizations may say. We went into this to protect us and other countries against what we saw was a growing threat. The United States has never condoned wholesale murder; our reaction when our troops in the past have gone over the line proves it. We are also the country that donates the most to international charities and does quite a bit to help further human rights around the world. You should think of that before claiming that we are a bunch of murderers.

If we got into the name-calling game, I could just as easily retaliate with calling all Canadians traitorous cowards that have suddenly turned their back on the nation that protected them militarily and benefitted them economically throughout the last 60 years. But then that would be sinking down to the level of the other people in this world that would just like to see our country lay down and die.

If we got into the name-calling game, I could just as easily retaliate with calling all Canadians traitorous cowards that have suddenly turned their back on the nation that protected them militarily and benefitted them economically throughout the last 60 years. But then that would be sinking down to the level of the other people in this world that would just like to see our country lay down and die.

Not all Canadians have turned their backs on America, just most. And those don't want to see you die, they want to see you stumble, like the understudy hopes to see the headliner stumble. It's just weakness.

Credibility of international laws has been undermined?! If anything I feel the UN has never been a credible agency anyway (League of Nations anyone?). If we all cast our minds back to last year, the UN said it would support a war if Iraq was found to be in breach of resolution 14-41. American and UK found this evidence (not the "dodgy dossier", that came later), but immediately after we did find proof, the UN (more specifically, France, Germany and Russia, who ARE the UN anyhow....) tried to change the bleeding rules. WMD's never came into it until later, but while on that subject, by WMD they were looking for a WEAPON of mass destruction, i.e. something assembled in a phallic shape device on a launcher with someones finger over the blue touch-paper. So how about the 3 barrels of GD found in a concreted-over room in a school in Najaf? Or the more recent shell that contained GB ("Sarin" to most) nerve agent? Or, i would say that the most significant find was broken glass that may have been from laboratory flasks containing traces of T-2 Mycotoxins (that can be incubated into a moderate bio-agent in 4 hours with no vaccine) in Baghdad. But im sorry. Since these were only COMPONENTS, not WEAPONS, of mass destruction, they dont count. Im sorry for being ignorant about the value of the wording.

One final point, you're right to say that this "war" is simply a resumption of hostilities. The last Gulf War didnt really end, as a war MUST have a total victor, and a total loser, and MUST result in a regime change. Ceasefires and Armistices never work as they do not allow conflicts to reach their natural conclusion and spawn a military state and a refugee state, but sorry thats OOT, it should be in the palestine debate :)

Why do you keep trying to stretch this WMD topic Salishe? Bush couldn't have been that concerned about them, or he would have let the UN inspectors finish their valuable work in the first place.
Saddam was misleading inspectors with things like a 1000+ page dossier that still had missing WMD info, so why should we think that he would change when he was showing all the signs of misleading inspectors again?
Regardless, the inspectors had access to anywhere they wanted to go, including Saddam's palaces and what were they finding?

NOTHING, NADA, ZILTCH

However, they did find a few rockets that could travel a whole 120 miles, which was about 10 miles further than allowable, and the UN was cutting them up when Bush ordered the UN inspectors out.

The UN team WAS making progress and asked for additional manpower to speed up the process, besides, France, Russia, and China were ALL for allowing the inspectors more time.

Lets face facts. Iraq was NO threat to the US, and many people outside the US knew that Bush had a hidden agenda.

Oh please..they had 12 yrs to do their job....they were headed off..waylaid, bamboozled so many times during their inspections of Iraq we have no clue as to what was where or when it was moved..unhindered means just that..unhindered..that means no questioning of scientists with Baathist thugs in attendance..that means dropping in whereever they damn well please and we all know that didn't happen.

You gave the UN 12 yrs to do their job...now give us the same courtesy.