NationStates Jolt Archive

I know that this wasn't Peter Jackson's intention, but in the LOTR trilogy, doesn't it seem like Sam has a Homoerotic lust for Frodo. I notice this when he says stuff like "I'll do anything for you Mr. Frodo". I was just waiting this conversation to happen:

Sam: Now that we're about to die Mr. Frodo, will you finally give me a backrub and a foot massage and possibly let me have my way with you?

Frodo: No Sam. For the last time No. And I won't spoon with you either Samwise Gamgee you dirty little hobbit, you.

Gollum: Nasty fat hobbit. Wants to spoon with Master.

Just my observation. Anyone else agree?

lol

*smack*

there was a time where men could have close friendships without there being a sexual element to it.

no matter how many times he says "dont you know me, mr frodo, its me, your sam"

lol

*smack*

there was a time where men could have close friendships without there being a sexual element to it.

no matter how many times he says "dont you know me, mr frodo, its me, your sam"

No two guys are that close, Ash.

Well, the are conjoined twins. :lol: No but really, Sam and Frodo were away for a long time with only each other (and Gollum, but lets not get into having sex with Gollum). They could've gone the way a lot of guys in prison go, since they have nobody else. That would explain why Sam still got married at the end of the movie after acting gay.

not any more
but supposedly there was a time in the past when they were
SUPPOSEDLY their relationship is modeld more on the officer/servant relationship in the british army

it always annoyed me that sam was so subservient to frodo, its not like the hobbits had classes.

its impossible to tell if close male relationships in the past have actually been gay but no one ever told
so who knows? maybe jrrtolkein was just naive?

besides they are hobbits not men so maybe there are no gay hobbits

Well, the are conjoined twins. :lol: No but really, Sam and Frodo were away for a long time with only each other (and Gollum, but lets not get into having sex with Gollum). They could've gone the way a lot of guys in prison go, since they have nobody else. That would explain why Sam still got married at the end of the movie after acting gay.

Very, very possible.
Good thinking. :wink:

Well, the are conjoined twins. :lol: No but really, Sam and Frodo were away for a long time with only each other (and Gollum, but lets not get into having sex with Gollum). They could've gone the way a lot of guys in prison go, since they have nobody else. That would explain why Sam still got married at the end of the movie after acting gay.

Very possible. :wink:

just figured I'd throw this out there.... as legend (or maybe urban legend) has it J.R.R. Tolkien had very close relationship with another male writer of the era and many people speculated that there may have been a sexual side to that relationship, and the same people tend to think that the close friendship of Sam and Frodo was supposed to have a homoerotic undertone on purpose

besides they are hobbits not men so maybe there are no gay hobbits

I won't speculate upon whether or not there are homosexual Hobbits.

I will go so far as to say that the cultural standards of The Shire are probably different from American standards. (I can't speak for any other society.) Behavior that would be (either accurately or stereotypically) associated with homosexuality in American culture might not be so associated in The Shire.

"Think about it for a moment." :wink:

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
Founder and Delegate of The Realm of Ambrosia

I am really saddened when people bring up stuff like this. We have an awesome story like LoTR and all we can discuss is whether or not Sam is gay. People, come on. Two guys can love each other to the point that Sam loved Frodo and not be gay. This is the true, pure love of friendship that has almost vanished from our world, and this is why no one understands this. An author once wrote: "People are afraid of what they don't understand." People who do not understand something mock what they cannot comprehend. Sam isn't gay, and it's really sad if all we can get out of Lord of the Rings is a stupid discussion about the question of Sam's sexuality. That's like watching a beautiful sunset and wondering about the pollution in the air instead of enjoying the beauty. Get over the Sam/Frodo thing and just love the books and movies for what they are-possibly the best story any of us shall read in our lifetimes.

"well you have now, sam, dear sam" said frodo and he lay back in sam's gentle arms, closing his eyes, like a child art rest when night-fears are driven away by some loved voice or hand
sam felt that he could sit like that in endless happiness, but it was not allowed; it was not enough for him to find his master, he had still to try and save him. he kissed frodo's forehead.....

oh come on, and its SAD to think "thats kinda gay"?
how could anyone help it??

I am really saddened when people bring up stuff like this. We have an awesome story like LoTR and all we can discuss is whether or not Sam is gay. People, come on. Two guys can love each other to the point that Sam loved Frodo and not be gay. This is the true, pure love of friendship that has almost vanished from our world, and this is why no one understands this. An author once wrote: "People are afraid of what they don't understand." People who do not understand something mock what they cannot comprehend. Sam isn't gay, and it's really sad if all we can get out of Lord of the Rings is a stupid discussion about the question of Sam's sexuality. That's like watching a beautiful sunset and wondering about the pollution in the air instead of enjoying the beauty. Get over the Sam/Frodo thing and just love the books and movies for what they are-possibly the best story any of us shall read in our lifetimes.swi. mi deme-egrizi.

Apparently, according to urban legend, every man who ever lived was a closet homosexual at some point. You see, even those who outright condemn homosexuality as immoral, or who get married and spawn a veritable litter of ankle-nippers, were really just trying to detract attention from their own obviously latent homosexuality.

Didnt you know, that everyone who says they love another man is homosexual. And everyone who refuses to say they love another man is really just in denial about their own uncertain sexuality.

:roll:

I know that this wasn't Peter Jackson's intention, but in the LOTR trilogy, doesn't it seem like Sam has a Homoerotic lust for Frodo. I notice this when he says stuff like "I'll do anything for you Mr. Frodo". I was just waiting this conversation to happen:

Sam: Now that we're about to die Mr. Frodo, will you finally give me a backrub and a foot massage and possibly let me have my way with you?

Frodo: No Sam. For the last time No. And I won't spoon with you either Samwise Gamgee you dirty little hobbit, you.

Gollum: Nasty fat hobbit. Wants to spoon with Master.

Just my observation. Anyone else agree?

Your American Arent you?

He's just a loyal friend you sick bastard!

tolkein would murder you all for this

tolkein would murder you all for this

he'd be REALLLLY old , i think we could take him!

iDoublePost.

Okay, upon rereading the topic, I unofficially advise everyone to remain civil.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
Founder and Delegate of The Realm of Ambrosia

In todays societal standards, Samwise McGee is a total fag. :twisted:

In todays societal standards, Samwise McGee is a total fag. :twisted:

...and in NationStates standards, you're the puppet of two UN multies.

iEject "The 27th Reich" and "Biker Mobs" from the United Nations.

Now, if we could continue this discussion in a more polite manner...?

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

In todays societal standards, Samwise McGee is a total fag. :twisted:

...and in NationStates standards, you're the puppet of two UN multies.

iEject "The 27th Reich" and "Biker Mobs" from the United Nations.

Now, if we could continue this discussion in a more polite manner...?

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator


omg this is really bad

omg this is really bad

I caught a rulebreaker. How is that bad? :?

Anyway, let's not dwell on this too long; I don't want to drag this discussion off-topic.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

omg this is really bad

I caught a rulebreaker. How is that bad? :?

Anyway, let's not dwell on this too long; I don't want to drag this discussion off-topic.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

how is that rulebreaking?

lol

*smack*

there was a time where men could have close friendships without there being a sexual element to it.

no matter how many times he says "dont you know me, mr frodo, its me, your sam"I don't think so. Maybe Imperial Rome, but then again they did practice bi-sexuality.

For a very amusing satire of LOTR, try the very secret diaries at

http://www.ealasaid.com/misc/vsd/

I know that this wasn't Peter Jackson's intention, but in the LOTR trilogy, doesn't it seem like Sam has a Homoerotic lust for Frodo. I notice this when he says stuff like "I'll do anything for you Mr. Frodo". I was just waiting this conversation to happen:

Sam: Now that we're about to die Mr. Frodo, will you finally give me a backrub and a foot massage and possibly let me have my way with you?

Frodo: No Sam. For the last time No. And I won't spoon with you either Samwise Gamgee you dirty little hobbit, you.

Gollum: Nasty fat hobbit. Wants to spoon with Master.

Just my observation. Anyone else agree?
I know what you're talking about...EVERYONE does...but no, Sam is totally straight...what it ACTUALLY is...kinda like the end of Scary Movie...Frodo approaches Sam, explains how he loves him and Sam says..."whoa...I'm not like that Mr. Frodo"
Frodo is gay...Sam is not
EDIT: based on the movies...I still haven't read the books

You know, I have to agree with some earlier posts in saying it's a truly sad comment on our own NS and real-life societies when a topic like this can be/is even brought up. I think, and this is my opinion, mind you, that Samwise Gamgee stands as one of the truest examples of loyalty, fidelity and friendship in all of literature, and that his relationship to Frodo is far from homoerotic. People in our society just don't make friends like this anymore, and I honestly think we have lost something very valuable in such.

lol

*smack*

there was a time where men could have close friendships without there being a sexual element to it.

no matter how many times he says "dont you know me, mr frodo, its me, your sam"I don't think so. Maybe Imperial Rome, but then again they did practice bi-sexuality.

I believe American cultural boundries of male friendship are an overresponse to homosexuality that skews one's view of any such close male bond as being of a sexual nature. The capacity is still there and some events transend the culture. Does a father love a son? Can a brother love a brother? Can a male have a friend that is closer than a brother?

The dedication to another's well being, even at the expense of one's own, may be lost to the majority of the last few generations. It may even be absent from the American personna. But to classify it as homosexual is juvenile at best but probably right in there with the toilet humor more common to an eight year old.

SHL

I know that this wasn't Peter Jackson's intention, but in the LOTR trilogy, doesn't it seem like Sam has a Homoerotic lust for Frodo. I notice this when he says stuff like "I'll do anything for you Mr. Frodo". I was just waiting this conversation to happen:

Sam: Now that we're about to die Mr. Frodo, will you finally give me a backrub and a foot massage and possibly let me have my way with you?

Frodo: No Sam. For the last time No. And I won't spoon with you either Samwise Gamgee you dirty little hobbit, you.

Gollum: Nasty fat hobbit. Wants to spoon with Master.

Just my observation. Anyone else agree?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

i kinda like the gay samwise though, it adds a nice layer to the story.

Does a father love a son? Can a brother love a brother? Can a male have a friend that is closer than a brother?

Do you love Jesus? Jesus loves you. :wink:

So, would Jesus be gay too, just like Sam?

no. That post was funny but no. ANyway the movie I thought was great but I agree that it is perfectly possible for two men to have a relationship without being gay this is called a friendship now if you hug a guy your gay or you cry your gay or show emotion your gay and so on its nuts. Gays are those who are sexually attracted and or active with those of the same sex and I didn't sense that nor did it happen with lotr/sam he married that lady the blonde and had kids

besides they are hobbits not men so maybe there are no gay hobbits

I won't speculate upon whether or not there are homosexual Hobbits.

I will go so far as to say that the cultural standards of The Shire are probably different from American standards. (I can't speak for any other society.) Behavior that would be (either accurately or stereotypically) associated with homosexuality in American culture might not be so associated in The Shire.

"Think about it for a moment." :wink:

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
Founder and Delegate of The Realm of AmbrosiaBut how do you know that sodomy is associated with homosexuality in The Shire? Maybe it's the accepted norm amonst all hobbits.

iDoublePost.

Okay, upon rereading the topic, I unofficially advise everyone to remain civil.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
Founder and Delegate of The Realm of Ambrosia

Yes, good idea. People are taking my half-jokingly topic too seriously. I'm trying to liven up NS General Forum with a fun discussion topic that does have some truthful base to it which would be open for discussion. :roll:

But how do you know that sodomy is associated with homosexuality in The Shire? Maybe it's the accepted norm amonst all hobbits.

who said anything about SEX?? OHMYGOD thats nasty!

But how do you know that sodomy is associated with homosexuality in The Shire? Maybe it's the accepted norm amonst all hobbits.

who said anything about SEX?? OHMYGOD thats nasty!

poor little hobbitses :roll:

bump

Didnt you know, that everyone who says they love another man is homosexual. And everyone who refuses to say they love another man is really just in denial about their own uncertain sexuality.

:roll:

Haven't you ever said "I love you" to your father or mother? That's to someone of the same sex, and yet, that doesn't make you gay. It is possible to care very, very deeply for someone and not be gay. People, Lord of the Rings is an incredible story-do we really need to try to form some gay thing with two of the neatest characters in the entire book?

Yay? (not "yay", pronounced "ya-iee" its spanish.) I will admit, I laughed at first when Sam cradled Frodo in his arms at the end of RotK, trying to conjure up memories of the Shire, but after watching it again, I realized, how else was he to comfort his friend?? The entire reason that they set out on the journey was to save their beloved home, and it was a bright, happy and green place in contrast to the choking, evil atmosphere they now had to endure. Throughout the three films, Sam is nothing but supportive of his friend, (whom he calls "Mr. Frodo" not because of something creepy, but because he's USED TO IT. He's the GARDENER.) If it's easier, try to think of it like the bond between soldiers. (Do people think Forrest and Bubba are gay? NO.) And Sam HAS to be that supportive because Frodo is being reduced to a mess by the oh-so-eeeevil ring. Sam HAD to take up the slack. And how would YOU feel if you're trying to save your best friend, but some usurper turns them against you?? Sam has a good-hearted, serving personality.

...also, now, this is an obvious one. >clears throat< SAM GETS MARRIED TO ROSIE COTTON AT THE END OF THE MOVIE, AND CONFESSES TO FRODO AS THEY LAY ON THE MOUNTAIN SIDE THAT HE WANTED TO MARRY HER. And has CHILDREN. That, in my opinion, should settle everything.

I hate this. People can't be close friends with the same sex anymore without others thinking they're homo. Something ugly is going to happen to us all if we keep pushing eachother away.

*applause*

*applause*

It's funny. Don' take it so seriously Mako. Laugh a little.

Samwise is not homosexual. Part of what makes his character so memorable, and why everyone screamed Oscar for Sean Astin, is because how loyal and how upstanding his character was... this does not make him gay, it makes him a swell guy.

Well there's nothing wrong with him being gay, per se. I do not think that Tolkien wrote him to be so and I do not see the movie as interpreting it as such, but to each their own, right?

Unless of course you've all forgotten that Sam got married at the end of RotK???

Unless of course you've all forgotten that Sam got married at the end of RotK???

Wow.

I must be tired, I didn't even consider that for an argument...

:wink:

It is a good argument. I have a totally off-topic related question tho- at the end of RoTK, the little girl who plays Elanor-I heard that Sean Astin's daughter played that part-is that true? If anyone knows, I think that be really awesome... and I agree with Tuesday Heights "Oscar" post.

Maybe good old Samwise is was just experimenting. :wink:

The hobbits were clearly homosexual.

The first LOTR movie got the Most Homoerotic Movie of the Year Award from some joke comedy show.

The hobbits were clearly homosexual.

I always thought they were English. :?

The hobbits were clearly homosexual.
I always thought they were English. :?
There is a difference. :wink:

The hobbits were clearly homosexual.

I always thought they were English. :?

I didn't think any of the Hobbits were English, I don't think that they were even played by English actors.

besides they are hobbits not men so maybe there are no gay hobbits
Next you'll be saying there's straight elves

The hobbits were clearly homosexual.

The first LOTR movie got the Most Homoerotic Movie of the Year Award from some joke comedy show.

Excelent. A mod agrees with me. :D

DP

The hobbits were clearly homosexual.

I always thought they were English. :?

I didn't think any of the Hobbits were English, I don't think that they were even played by English actors.

not that it matters, but they were english, or at least british.

The hobbits were clearly homosexual.

I always thought they were English. :?

I didn't think any of the Hobbits were English, I don't think that they were even played by English actors.

not that it matters, but they were english, or at least british.

uhhh...same thing

We are judging characters from a very different perspective from the time it was written.

We are judging characters from a very different perspective from the time it was written.

We're talking about how he was portrayed in the movie.

I know a few Scots that would kill you for calling them English...

And foreigners should stop stereotyping Americans as "gay-bashers". You have them too.

For my two cents: Imagine you leave your beautiful homeland, all your friends and family, and set off on a quest that, at this time, seems more than a trifle. Either extremely easy or just never going to happen and you might as turn around. Your best friend comes along, 'cause that's what best friends do when you need them.

As you progress down this road, you slowly come to terms that you are most likely going to die at the end of this. Probably very painfully as well. You may not even save your homeland. How do react?

Frodo broke down at this point. Sam was there as a crutch, to help his friend through the tough times, and to persevere. I feel Frodo's sanity/psyche was reassembled from the shattered mess and healed by Sam. He saved Frodo from Gollum, he even saved Frodo from himself as the ring took hold. It was a bond that transcended gender barriers. Two lost souls in the maw of evil. But the hung on together, and made it out.

In conclusion, Samwise is not homosexual.

I know a few Scots that would kill you for calling them English...

And foreigners should stop stereotyping Americans as "gay-bashers". You have them too.

For my two cents: Imagine you leave your beautiful homeland, all your friends and family, and set off on a quest that, at this time, seems more than a trifle. Either extremely easy or just never going to happen and you might as turn around. Your best friend comes along, 'cause that's what best friends do when you need them.

As you progress down this road, you slowly come to terms that you are most likely going to die at the end of this. Probably very painfully as well. You may not even save your homeland. How do react?

Frodo broke down at this point. Sam was there as a crutch, to help his friend through the tough times, and to persevere. I feel Frodo's sanity/psyche was reassembled from the shattered mess and healed by Sam. He saved Frodo from Gollum, he even saved Frodo from himself as the ring took hold. It was a bond that transcended gender barriers. Two lost souls in the maw of evil. But the hung on together, and made it out.

In conclusion, Samwise is not homosexual.

Wow. You wasted your first post trying to convince people that don't want to be convinced. (mainly me)

In conclusion, Samwise is not homosexual.

VERY nice discussion of the relationship between sam and frodo

but i dont see how it negates the possiblitiy of sam being gay

The hobbits were clearly homosexual.

The first LOTR movie got the Most Homoerotic Movie of the Year Award from some joke comedy show.

Excelent. A mod agrees with me. :D
*slaps TG* you homophobe, you... they were so not.

The hobbits were clearly homosexual.

The first LOTR movie got the Most Homoerotic Movie of the Year Award from some joke comedy show.

Excelent. A mod agrees with me. :D
*slaps TG* you homophobe, you... they were so not.

How does that make him a homophobe?

bump

I know a few Scots that would kill you for calling them English...

And foreigners should stop stereotyping Americans as "gay-bashers". You have them too.

For my two cents: Imagine you leave your beautiful homeland, all your friends and family, and set off on a quest that, at this time, seems more than a trifle. Either extremely easy or just never going to happen and you might as turn around. Your best friend comes along, 'cause that's what best friends do when you need them.

As you progress down this road, you slowly come to terms that you are most likely going to die at the end of this. Probably very painfully as well. You may not even save your homeland. How do react?

Frodo broke down at this point. Sam was there as a crutch, to help his friend through the tough times, and to persevere. I feel Frodo's sanity/psyche was reassembled from the shattered mess and healed by Sam. He saved Frodo from Gollum, he even saved Frodo from himself as the ring took hold. It was a bond that transcended gender barriers. Two lost souls in the maw of evil. But the hung on together, and made it out.

In conclusion, Samwise is not homosexual.

Wow. You wasted your first post trying to convince people that don't want to be convinced. (mainly me)


*applause for first post

Don't want to be convinced? A bit harsh. I, for one, agree with Crimson Plains. Good post my friend, well-written.

Second post: Harsh....really harsh... *be nice*

what about the rest of them? did any of them have a sex life at all?
did aragorn and arwen consumate their relationship before she became mortal? she was WAY too old for him.
what about gandalf? there were no female wizards mentioned. did he have human lovers?
surely boromir and faramir werent virgins
things were so chaste in the book. was middle earth perv free?

was middle earth perv free?

LOL, Google The Very Secret Diaries and learn about the Pointy Hat Trick. ;)

That said, no, I don't think Sam and Frodo were getting it on. I don't think Sam was lusting after Frodo. They were good friends before, and they became much closer for having gone through hell together.

From the beginning of Fellowship, he mentioned very shyly how much he liked Rosie Cotton, and IIRC, during the darkest points of the books he thought about her and how he wanted to see her again.

The kind of person who believes that all people of the same sex who are good friends must be gay is the same sort who believes that people of the opposite sex CANNOT be friends and MUST be having sex if they are often seen together.

was middle earth perv free?

LOL, Google The Very Secret Diaries and learn about the Pointy Hat Trick. ;)


OHMYGODTHATSNASTY!

what a hoot! thanks for the tip!

I've heard a few people make this same comment (homoeroticism between Sam and Frodo), and I just couldn't see it myself. To me, it just seemed like two very close friends, who loved each other like brothers.

ahh

sam - "Ohh frodo, let me save you! Ohh bear this weight, you can bear this weight..."

golem "Nasty hobbitsis...ohhh so nasty hobbitists....ohhh yea....so nice and Sweet! Juciey Fish!!! Hard juicy!!"

Sauron - "AAAAAAAAAGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!! ARGHWEEEE!!!!!!!!! my EYE it BURNS! Ha Ha!"

God - "And man may not love man, but woman are everyones game"

Sam - "Jimmy Cricket!! Ahhh...."

Frodo - "Your finger doesnt fit the ring!!! Too big!!"


^^ dont delete me please

sam - "Ohh frodo, let me save you! Ohh bear this weight, you can bear this weight..."

golem "Nasty hobbitsis...ohhh so nasty hobbitists....ohhh yea....so nice and Sweet! Juciey Fish!!! Hard juicy!!"

Sauron - "AAAAAAAAAGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!! ARGHWEEEE!!!!!!!!! my EYE it BURNS! Ha Ha!"

God - "And man may not love man, but woman are everyones game"

Sam - "Jimmy Cricket!! Ahhh...."

Frodo - "Your finger doesnt fit the ring!!! Too big!!"


^^ dont delete me please

Jeez, if you get this excited over LOTR I can only imagine what Clifford the Big Red Dog did for you.