NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok everybody sez that we should give em more money right?

WRONG!!!

While the impovrished do deserve some financial leg up, handouts will just make a society lazy.

Kanabia you are quite correct when you say this:
The focus should be on universally accessible education and work, and strong encouragement for people to utilise these, rather than throwing money at them.

Why does this sound to me like it was part of another topic?

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

Probably because it is.

Yes, that's exactly what we've ben saying for years...

But of course, any time we cut welfare programs, we're evil :)

Ok everybody sez that we should give em more money right?

WRONG!!!

While the impovrished do deserve some financial leg up, handouts will just make a society lazy.

Kanabia you are quite correct when you say this:
The focus should be on universally accessible education and work, and strong encouragement for people to utilise these, rather than throwing money at them.
I agree, however! Unless education and work are made mandatory (kinda like they did in the old USSR), those who don't want to do anything to improve their lot in life, will continue to make the dumb decisions that have put them in such positions in the first place.

Yes! There is agreement here. However, you cannot just end all welfare. Keep it, but make it an unatracive thing to do by having recipients join WPA-style organizations to actually work for the money. Don't think of it as welfare, think of it as a difficult but guaranteed local governmnet job like mowing neutral grounds, building roads and public installations, etc. Something like the prison labor we have in the US, cleaning restrooms, but actually substancial.

A side note:
My mother once taught school in a New Orleans school where many children aspired to being leeches as adults and jumped out of windows. I am shocked. End this, and watch the situation for the poor vastly improve. I am hopeful yet :roll:

Yes! There is agreement here. However, you cannot just end all welfare. Keep it, but make it an unatracive thing to do by having recipients join WPA-style organizations to actually work for the money. Don't think of it as welfare, think of it as a difficult but guaranteed local governmnet job like mowing neutral grounds, building roads and public installations, etc. Something like the prison labor we have in the US, cleaning restrooms, but actually substancial.
It's been done, and it's called Welfare Reform. I like the fact that they (the GOP in Congress) even attached a time limit to welfare. That way, the welfare queens have a nice incentive to get off their rear-ends and become producers of something other than future gangsters.
A side note:
My mother once taught school in a New Orleans school where many children aspired to being leeches as adults and jumped out of windows. I am shocked. End this, and watch the situation for the poor vastly improve. I am hopeful yet :roll:I grew up with neighbors whose sole ambition was to either become drug pushers (those are mostly dead now,) rap singers or basketball players (those mostly work at McDonald's...those, that is, who didn't go into the drug pushing business.) It is sad.

Probably because it is.

Can somebody provide a link to the other topic? Because I'd like to lock this one.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

maybe if they gave the poor a govt subsudized quota of drugs for a set month that gets cut off if theyre out of work for too long the benefit of it is you have poor people working but not suffering the oppressive aspects of being forced to work

Yes, that's exactly what we've ben saying for years...

But of course, any time we cut welfare programs, we're evil :)

Maybe you should do it after you get jobs and education sorted out?

Probably because it is.

Can somebody provide a link to the other topic? Because I'd like to lock this one.

--The Modified Democratic States of CogitationJust lock it anyway. Nothing's being said here that hasn't been said a thousand times elsewhere.

A side note:
My mother once taught school in a New Orleans school where many children aspired to being leeches as adults and jumped out of windows. I am shocked. End this, and watch the situation for the poor vastly improve. I am hopeful yet :roll:
yeah...New Orleans schools are very sad....that's an all too common sight in the public schools down [here]

Someone mentioned how people in his/her neighborhood aspired to be drug pushers. That's what will happen if you push people off of welfare, you'll have legions of drug pushers. And then you'll act surprised when people rob and/or kill you.

Why would a person be motivated to work if they aren't going to make a living off of it? There are millions of people who are called the working poor, because they are just that, working and poor.

With that said, however, welfare isn't the only answer. Yes, train people to get jobs, yes, educate them. Raising wages would also be a good idea. But cutting people off of welfare isn't the answer.

Incidentally, if you have people that were on welfare who are working to mow city lawns, etc., then people who are already working will wonder why those jobs weren't open to them, and will lobby to get those jobs.

Stop outsourcing jobs for cheap foreign labor might help.

Some of them are just lazy. If you don't get good results in your GCSE's and A levels then what do you expect?

You might still get paid well for doing a trade....

wanna know how to get rid of the poor?

kill them!!!

wanna know how to get rid of the poor?

kill them!!!


lol

wanna know how to get rid of the poor?

kill them!!!

I think we shouldn't be going to such extremes but I do think that it should be up to individuals whether or not they choose to help the poor via charity and not the whole of society. You could make other people poor by forcing people to help the poor.

wanna know how to get rid of the poor?

kill them!!!

I think we shouldn't be going to such extremes but I do think that it should be up to individuals whether or not they choose to help the poor via charity and not the whole of society. You could make other people poor by forcing people to help the poor.you can also bring down all society by ignoring the ills of the poor too

wanna know how to get rid of the poor?

kill them!!!

Wrong answer. We don't need to do that...what we need to do is set the conditions in which they can make something better out of their lives. Let's start with taking government out of education...or at least allowing poor parents the choice of which school they send their kids to, and help them be able to do that. Vouchers!

The solution is anarcho-communism.

-----------------------------------------
"Beside him is a beautiful androgyne called SWITCH, aiming a large gun at Neo."--Script of The Matrix (I love The Matrix, but that is still funny.)
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

wanna know how to get rid of the poor?

kill them!!!

Why do you think the neutron bomb was invented?

The solution is anarcho-communism.

-----------------------------------------
"Beside him is a beautiful androgyne called SWITCH, aiming a large gun at Neo."--Script of The Matrix (I love The Matrix, but that is still funny.)
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpgor permanent revolution son

The solution is anarcho-communism.

Only if we can make it work.

or permanent revolution son

Isn't that Trotskyism?

-----------------------------------------
"Beside him is a beautiful androgyne called SWITCH, aiming a large gun at Neo."--Script of The Matrix (I love The Matrix, but that is still funny.)
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

or permanent revolution son

Isn't that Trotskyism?


Or Maoism.

or permanent revolution son

Isn't that Trotskyism?


Or Maoism.
or fun

The only true way of solving the problem of poverty is to change the threshold at which you judge people as poor leaving fewer people to fit your definition. Otherwise there will always be losers in any system.

If dishonesty isnt your style then i say anarcho-socialism.