NationStates Jolt Archive

Well?

kinda riddled with superstition

The Boxer Rebellion was nothing more than a few reactionary terrorists who were trying to prevent the future. Perhaps the Europeans, Japanese, and US were wrong in their actions in China, but you gotta admit that it had some nice consequences.

kinda riddled with superstition dont you have anything else to say? (im watching the last emporer btw)

no not really, it was a strange effort to oust the foreigners when they had no real way of doing so. whats to have an opinion? it dint work

It demonstrated the skill of the Chinese government, turning what was originally a revolt against them into a war on the foreigners.

Pity about the dying and the screaming and the oh, glavin...

no not really, it was a strange effort to oust the foreigners when they had no real way of doing so. whats to have an opinion? it dint work

i read a book about it about a year ago, and it was actually pretty sad condidering that the western powers (japan included) basically took their country away from them. but i dont think it would have escalated as much as it did if the dowager empress hadnt been playing for both sides

unfortunatley the west came upon china when it was at its weakest, forcing huge concessions from them throughout the 19th century. they were never strong enough to throw them out until after ww2 when the west had no energy left to keep their chinese "colonies" so the communists kicked them out.

no not really, it was a strange effort to oust the foreigners when they had no real way of doing so. whats to have an opinion? it dint work

i read a book about it about a year ago, and it was actually pretty sad condidering that the western powers (japan included) basically took their country away from them. but i dont thinkl it would have escalated as much as it did if the dowager empress hadnt been playing for both sides
China was bound to go. For years before and since, Shanghai had the honor as the most decadent city on the planet. Any guesses why that was? Because under the Ming, the Chinese holed themselves in their country, missing out on the many advances in Europe, and not bothering to keep the Europeans from encroaching anywhere near Asia (traditionally the domain of China). The Manchus weren't interested from learning from foreigners, either. Thus, their civilization declined, as the West rose. The growing power of Japan nearby only complicated matters. It was only inevitable for China to decline, as they already thought they knew everything. In fact, I think most America haters will agree with me that China in the nineteenth century was even more arrogant than the US.

While this isn't my thread, I find the subject interesting, so BUMP.

And here I thought for a second that you were asking "boxers or briefs!"

Whew!!! :lol:

While this isn't my thread, I find the subject interesting, so BUMP.

oh, thank you. you like chinese history?

While this isn't my thread, I find the subject interesting, so BUMP.

oh, thank you. you like chinese history?
Yeah, I find it interesting. After looking at it, one can't help but realize that Chinese history is based on the ancient mystico-political concept, the Mandate of Heaven. No other civilization has gone through constant destruction and rebirth as the Chinese have. On top of it all, they keep the same culture throughout their 4000 year history.

doesnt everyone?
what about the taiping rebellion?
much more interesting!

doesnt everyone?
what about the taiping rebellion?
much more interesting!

hm? havent read much about that. care to enlighten me?

While this isn't my thread, I find the subject interesting, so BUMP.

oh, thank you. you like chinese history?
Yeah, I find it interesting. After looking at it, one can't help but realize that Chinese history is based on the ancient mystico-political concept, the Mandate of Heaven. No other civilization has gone through constant destruction and rebirth as the Chinese have. On top of it all, they keep the same culture throughout their 4000 year history.

The Mandate of Heaven seems to be a running theme in the Orient...didn't the Japanese have 'All the corners of the world under one roof'?

While this isn't my thread, I find the subject interesting, so BUMP.

oh, thank you. you like chinese history?
Yeah, I find it interesting. After looking at it, one can't help but realize that Chinese history is based on the ancient mystico-political concept, the Mandate of Heaven. No other civilization has gone through constant destruction and rebirth as the Chinese have. On top of it all, they keep the same culture throughout their 4000 year history.

The Mandate of Heaven seems to be a running theme in the Orient...didn't the Japanese have 'All the corners of the world under one roof'?
It's a theme for Oriental History, but none of them would have existed if not for China. China is by far the oldest of all the Asian civilizations, and was their catalyst. Besides, none of the other cultures live up to the Mandate of Heaven as much as China. Japan was pretty much a cultural stepchild of China until about 500 years ago. After that, it went into a hole, and didn't truely become its own civilization until 1868, the beginning of the Mejei period. Korea was a vassal state of either China or Japan for most of its history. In fact, Korea had no real power whatsoever, except during a few brief periods of their history. And SE Asia, like China, rose and fell multiple times. Unlike China, however, they changed cultures. They went from being Indian based to China based.

the taiping rebellion was an internal rebellion trying to overthrow the manchus earlier in the 19th century
it was centered in southern china and done by the hakka people. peasants most noted (in my mind) for not binding their womens feet

it was fairly egalitarian, for china, and lasted about 15 years before they were finally defeated.
they leader thought he was the younger brother of jesus (not unlike the rev sun myong moon today) and wanted to have a "heavenly kingdom of great peace" taiping meaning great peace.

china's written language, especially since its not phonetic served to keep its cultural base going throughout its history

It's a theme for Oriental History, but none of them would have existed if not for China. China is by far the oldest of all the Asian civilizations, and was their catalyst. Besides, none of the other cultures live up to the Mandate of Heaven as much as China. Japan was pretty much a cultural stepchild of China until about 500 years ago. After that, it went into a hole, and didn't truely become its own civilization until 1868, the beginning of the Mejei period. Korea was a vassal state of either China or Japan for most of its history. In fact, Korea had no real power whatsoever, except during a few brief periods of their history. And SE Asia, like China, rose and fell multiple times. Unlike China, however, they changed cultures. They went from being Indian based to China based.

Eh...I understood none of that. I'm interested in the Orient purely for the art, the perfectly shaped women, the bizarre comics, and the market of over two billion people... my actual history training has been purely European.

I do know, however, that what happened to China was its own fault. If they had not been so arrogant, and had actually learnt more of the outside world, who knows where they would be?

so they should have been able to anticipate that the english would sail in from 13000 miles away and force them to accept the sale of opium?

given its the way of the world to conquer or be conquered but i dont think its their FAULT that they couldnt concieve of danger coming from such an unlikely source. its not like they were watching CNN

It's a theme for Oriental History, but none of them would have existed if not for China. China is by far the oldest of all the Asian civilizations, and was their catalyst. Besides, none of the other cultures live up to the Mandate of Heaven as much as China. Japan was pretty much a cultural stepchild of China until about 500 years ago. After that, it went into a hole, and didn't truely become its own civilization until 1868, the beginning of the Mejei period. Korea was a vassal state of either China or Japan for most of its history. In fact, Korea had no real power whatsoever, except during a few brief periods of their history. And SE Asia, like China, rose and fell multiple times. Unlike China, however, they changed cultures. They went from being Indian based to China based.

Eh...I understood none of that. I'm interested in the Orient purely for the art, the perfectly shaped women, the bizarre comics, and the market of over two billion people... my actual history training has been purely European.

I do know, however, that what happened to China was its own fault. If they had not been so arrogant, and had actually learnt more of the outside world, who knows where they would be?
Sorry. Sometimes I loose myself in babble about nothing.
However, the basic jist of my arguement was that China follows the Mandate of Heaven most strictly. Japan hardly existed on its own until recently, as did Korea. SE Asia didn't exist as an entity independent of China, either.
BTW, I also like Chinese art.

Sorry. Sometimes I loose myself in babble about nothing.
However, the basic jist of my arguement was that China follows the Mandate of Heaven most strictly. Japan hardly existed on its own until recently, as did Korea. SE Asia didn't exist as an entity independent of China, either.
BTW, I also like Chinese art.

A problem we both have (the babble ;) ), however I found your history of the mandate of heaven a good summing up. Considering the Chinsese themselves have spent 4 or so thousand years talking about it without getting bored, I think a 1 paragraph summation of its effects on nearby civilizations is pretty good.

But still, China has changed its culture quite a bit. You've got basically 2 major formitive cultural periods from native Chinese, (The Han and the T'ang dynasties brought these) and the various foriegn occupiers (the Mongols, the Manchu, etc) that added elements of their own culture.

What do I think of the Boxer Rebellion? There are several academic studies on the nature, frequency, and reasons behind peasant rebellion in China. They are almost always crushed, but many succeed in their goals eventually anyway. Its a fascinating topic; most have been led by members of the elite sections of the society; most have regional concerns at their heart, most fall into banditry and meet grisly ends.

Great. Now I'm gonna crave going back and reading those studies again, then play Dynasty Warriors 3 for a couple of hours. Wonderful.

Go China! :)

you're just asking for it, aren't you? :wink:

ILLEGAL INCURSIONS INTO THE SACRED SOVEREIGNTY OF CHINA BY IMPERIALIST DOGS! OUGHT TO BE HUNG! COMPENSATION! DOWN WITH THE WEST! :evil:

and looking it more objectively, it was the dastardly Empress Dowager who prevented earlier attempts at reform and screwed China up so badly. :cry:

Sorry. Sometimes I loose myself in babble about nothing.
However, the basic jist of my arguement was that China follows the Mandate of Heaven most strictly. Japan hardly existed on its own until recently, as did Korea. SE Asia didn't exist as an entity independent of China, either.
BTW, I also like Chinese art.

A problem we both have (the babble ;) ), however I found your history of the mandate of heaven a good summing up. Considering the Chinsese themselves have spent 4 or so thousand years talking about it without getting bored, I think a 1 paragraph summation of its effects on nearby civilizations is pretty good.

But still, China has changed its culture quite a bit. You've got basically 2 major formitive cultural periods from native Chinese, (The Han and the T'ang dynasties brought these) and the various foriegn occupiers (the Mongols, the Manchu, etc) that added elements of their own culture.


Of course their culture changed a little. Everyone's did. But from the time of the Han to the Mongols, Chinese culture didn't change as dramatically as European culture from the Roman Empire to the Middle Ages. Besides, every tribe that's invaded China has been assimilated. The Mongols and the Manchus tried to prevent this, but they were in vain. Now, when the Goths invaded the Roman Empire, was their a wholesale adoption of Roman culture?

the right opf people to defend their way of life should be held sacred. however they ovsteped their bounds by resorting to violence which ultimitly backfired and brought about their downfall.

but they were right to defent their culture.

they were just really bad at it.