NationStates Jolt Archive

Is violent poetry a crime? Justices weigh
California case centers on teen's words of killing peers
Updated: 8:11 a.m. ET May 28, 2004

SAN FRANCISCO - The California Supreme Court is deciding whether to throw out the conviction of a 15-year-old boy who served 100 days in juvenile hall for writing a poem that included a threat to kill his fellow students.

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The case weighs free speech rights against the government’s responsibility to provide safety in schools after campus shootings nationwide.

Attorneys for the San Jose boy, identified as George T. in court records, described the poem Thursday as youthful artistic expression. One passage says: “For I can be the next kid to bring guns to kill students at school.” Another reads: “For I am Dark, Destructive & Dangerous.”

“This is a classic case of a person expressing himself and trying to communicate his feelings through a poem,” attorney Michael Kresser told the court, which gave no clear indication what it would do. A ruling is expected within 90 days.

Poetic verses protected?
Chief Justice Ronald George and other justices wondered aloud whether George T.’s statements were protected speech because they were presented as verses in a poem.

Deputy Attorney General Jeffrey Laurence replied: “The First Amendment doesn’t protect against criminal conduct.”

The law in question, usually invoked in domestic violence cases, carries a maximum one-year term for criminal threats that convey an “immediate prospect of execution.” The lower courts found that this threat met that definition, a decision the boy’s attorney argued was unfounded.

Civil rights and free-speech groups were closely following the dispute.

“At the heart of this case is the First Amendment right of any young person to explore the whole range of his emotions and experiences, and write about disturbing subject matter without fear that he will be punished should his work be misinterpreted,” said Ann Brick, an American Civil Liberties Union attorney.

A student frightened by the poem notified a teacher, who called police. The boy, now 18, was arrested the next day and expelled from Santa Teresa High in San Jose.

Concerns raised by judges
Justice Marvin Baxter was unsure whether the justices could second-guess the lower courts. “How can we conclude that the threat was unequivocal?”

Justice Joyce Kennard suggested there was no immediacy to the threat and therefore no crime was committed. “The poem doesn’t say ’I will be the next kid to bring guns to school.’ It says, ’I can.”’

Justice Janice Rogers Brown said the First Amendment doesn’t shield works of art with unlawful intentions. She asked whether a bank robber could be immune from charges for giving a bank teller this note:

“Roses are red. Violets are blue. Give me the money or I’ll shoot you.”

Speaking for the state, Laurence said the boy’s poem cannot be analyzed in a vacuum. The boy passed the poem to a girl in his English class 11 days after a student killed two classmates and wounded 13 others at Santana High School in Santee on March 5, 2001.

“You have to look at it all in context,” Laurence said.

Kresser said after the hourlong hearing that the boy’s prosecution was an exaggerated response to Santee as well as the 1999 Columbine High student shooting that left 15 dead, and other student attacks.

Outside of court, Laurence said the case might have been harder to prove if the poem was written in a poetry class, or the events at Santee had not just occurred.

Related cases
In one of California’s first attempts to prosecute a schoolchild under the criminal threats statute in 2002, a Sacramento-based appeals court overturned a boy’s conviction for drawing a picture of a police officer being shot in the head. That boy was previously arrested by the officer on drug-related charges, and he submitted the work to his art class. An appeals court ultimately reversed that conviction, saying there was no immediate threat of harm.

Prosecutions of students under the statute are rare, but continue: on Wednesday, a 14-year-old boy was arrested at a middle school in the San Francisco suburb of Walnut Creek after posting a cartoon on the Internet with a caption that referred to a teacher, reading: “Maybe I should kill him and urinate on his remains.”

Them kids and their poke'-man.

Heaven forbid kids get some of that stuff out in poetry rather than just bottling it up. Taking medication that says it will relieve depression but really causes it and therefore leads to suicide.

Them kids and their poke'-man.

Heaven forbid kids get some of that stuff out in poetry rather than just bottling it up. Taking medication that says it will relieve depression but really causes it and therefore leads to suicide.
Putting kids on medication cause we don't like their personalities is nothing more than mind control. Pure and simple.

http://www.geog.ucsb.edu/~jeff/earthgifs/world.gif

Considering the all too prevalent violence in American schools, I don't think 'poems' like this can afford to be tolerated. For Gods sake how many schools now have to have metal detectors at their gates?

These cases are the equivelent of banning violent moves and video games... and/or seriously censoring them...

Games, movies, media that have violent themes purge the basic instincts of man...

Violence in the media and everything else doesn't actualize violence. When will people learn?

http://www.geog.ucsb.edu/~jeff/earthgifs/world.gif

Considering the all too prevalent violence in American schools, I don't think 'poems' like this can afford to be tolerated. For Gods sake how many schools now have to have metal detectors at their gates?

You can't blame the kids. Their parents go off to fight for reasons they don't understand, and instead of teaching these children why their parents fight we teach them violence in any way shape or form is wrong.

That's gotta look bad.

That's the US government for you. Always trying to crush desent.

-----------------------------------------
"Beside him is a beautiful androgyne called SWITCH, aiming a large gun at Neo."--Script of The Matrix (I love The Matrix, but that is still funny.)
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

http://www.geog.ucsb.edu/~jeff/earthgifs/world.gif

Considering the all too prevalent violence in American schools, I don't think 'poems' like this can afford to be tolerated. For Gods sake how many schools now have to have metal detectors at their gates?
Speech is protected. You can't put people in jail just for saying something. It's unconstitutional.

That's the US government for you. Always trying to crush desent.

-----------------------------------------
"Beside him is a beautiful androgyne called SWITCH, aiming a large gun at Neo."--Script of The Matrix (I love The Matrix, but that is still funny.)
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

cruh desent? you didnt even read the article did you? it was about him shooting up his school!

These cases are the equivelent of banning violent moves and video games... and/or seriously censoring them...

Games, movies, media that have violent themes purge the basic instincts of man...

Violence in the media and everything else doesn't actualize violence. When will people learn?
There's a difference.
What you are talking about is commercial speech and it could be censored.
What this kid did was political speech which can't be censored.

Dude, imprisoning this kid will only bring him closer to the edge. He needs consuling not imprisonment.

There was this kid that had a hit list and short stories about what he was going to kill here. I was on the list.

Actually, consuling is stupid, I went there once because they thought I was mentally unstable. Basically it's a lady asking you why you feel angry, and you always answer "I don't know."

Speech is protected. You can't put people in jail just for saying something. It's unconstitutional.

Don't expect the government to follow the constitution.

-----------------------------------------
"Beside him is a beautiful androgyne called SWITCH, aiming a large gun at Neo."--Script of The Matrix (I love The Matrix, but that is still funny.)
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

That's the US government for you. Always trying to crush desent.

-----------------------------------------
"Beside him is a beautiful androgyne called SWITCH, aiming a large gun at Neo."--Script of The Matrix (I love The Matrix, but that is still funny.)
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

cruh desent? you didnt even read the article did you? it was about him shooting up his school!
Idiot. He didn't shoot up his school. He didn't have no weapons.
It was just political speech pure and simple.

Speech is protected. You can't put people in jail just for saying something. It's unconstitutional.

Don't expect the government to follow the constitution.

-----------------------------------------
"Beside him is a beautiful androgyne called SWITCH, aiming a large gun at Neo."--Script of The Matrix (I love The Matrix, but that is still funny.)
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

That is why we need a revolution to oust out the anti freedom fanatics.
As Jefferson said, freedom can only be kept alive with the blood of willing patriots spilling the blood of the anti patriots.

JESUS

Its a crazy kid writing poem about killing kids. Not a political rant. This has nothing to do with the government, but with the school.

Dude, imprisoning this kid will only bring him closer to the edge. He needs consuling not imprisonment.

There was this kid that had a hit list and short stories about what he was going to kill here. I was on the list.

Actually, consuling is stupid, I went there once because they thought I was mentally unstable. Basically it's a lady asking you why you feel angry, and you always answer "I don't know."
What we need to do is allow these kids to express themselves in poems and drawings. History and modern studies show that people who vent themselves in poems and drawings are 99% less likely to actually do this stuff in real life.

JESUS

Its a crazy kid writing poem about killing kids. Not a political rant. This has nothing to do with the government, but with the school.

yes, thats what i was trying to say, but they didnt listen to me i hate people

Dude, imprisoning this kid will only bring him closer to the edge. He needs consuling not imprisonment.

There was this kid that had a hit list and short stories about what he was going to kill here. I was on the list.

Actually, consuling is stupid, I went there once because they thought I was mentally unstable. Basically it's a lady asking you why you feel angry, and you always answer "I don't know."
What we need to do is allow these kids to express themselves in poems and drawings. History and modern studies show that people who vent themselves in poems and drawings are 99% less likely to actually do this stuff in real life.

When kids start making hit lists and you're on them. Let's see what you say then.

These cases are the equivelent of banning violent moves and video games... and/or seriously censoring them...

Games, movies, media that have violent themes purge the basic instincts of man...

Violence in the media and everything else doesn't actualize violence. When will people learn?
There's a difference.
What you are talking about is commercial speech and it could be censored.
What this kid did was political speech which can't be censored.
Commercial speech and any kind of speech should not be censored... Speech can not hurt anyone... Since we have taboos... people are offended by them... you eliminate all taboos.... the "bad" words and ethnic slurs become so common that they are not considered indecent.

Simple plan really... its just too much evangilic fervor in the political air in the US---yes lets show extreme sexuality without nudity, but Lord knows we can't show any nudity--even if there is no sexuality involved...

JESUS

Its a crazy kid writing poem about killing kids. Not a political rant. This has nothing to do with the government, but with the school.
It has everything to do with politics.
Just because he writes a poem about don't mean he's going to do it.
Psycho kids don't do poems when they're planning to shoot up schools.
Law enforcement around the world knows this.

There is no law or rule when it comes to dealing with crazy kids. That's why they're called crazy.

JESUS

Its a crazy kid writing poem about killing kids. Not a political rant. This has nothing to do with the government, but with the school.

yes, thats what i was trying to say, but they didnt listen to me i hate people
I hate to burst your bubble. But the school is part of the government. So yes it is political speech.
Everything written about school is political speech and as such is protected.

JESUS

Its a crazy kid writing poem about killing kids. Not a political rant. This has nothing to do with the government, but with the school.

yes, thats what i was trying to say, but they didnt listen to me i hate people
I hate to burst your bubble. But the school is part of the government. So yes it is political speech.
Everything written about school is political speech and as such is protected.

no its not! good christ jesus in heaven!

Dude, imprisoning this kid will only bring him closer to the edge. He needs consuling not imprisonment.

There was this kid that had a hit list and short stories about what he was going to kill here. I was on the list.

Actually, consuling is stupid, I went there once because they thought I was mentally unstable. Basically it's a lady asking you why you feel angry, and you always answer "I don't know."
What we need to do is allow these kids to express themselves in poems and drawings. History and modern studies show that people who vent themselves in poems and drawings are 99% less likely to actually do this stuff in real life.

When kids start making hit lists and you're on them. Let's see what you say then.
Let him write what he wants... what if the "hit list" its a joke? What then?
The logic is just as bad as saying lets shoot suspicious people on sight.

Dude, imprisoning this kid will only bring him closer to the edge. He needs consuling not imprisonment.

There was this kid that had a hit list and short stories about what he was going to kill here. I was on the list.

Actually, consuling is stupid, I went there once because they thought I was mentally unstable. Basically it's a lady asking you why you feel angry, and you always answer "I don't know."
What we need to do is allow these kids to express themselves in poems and drawings. History and modern studies show that people who vent themselves in poems and drawings are 99% less likely to actually do this stuff in real life.

When kids start making hit lists and you're on them. Let's see what you say then.
Did he actually threaten you? If so he would have shown you the poem in a threatening manner.
Or were you one of those bullies that he was expressing his frustration with by writing a poem. If you treat someone badly you have no right to expect them not to write bad things about you.

I understand, it's protected. I think they should watch the kid, but not imprison him, it'll only piss him off more.

Thing is, the "government" is not getting involved, it is not them surpressing this kid. It is school administration being afraid of a school shooting.

I write poems, mine are usually dark, depressing, and cynical. If you read them and didn't know me, you would probably think i was on the verge of suicide when actually my personality is the complete opposite. Most of my poems are not even about me, even the ones in first person are usually about fictional characters i made up. In the ones that are about me, the feelings are exaggerated. I am inspired by life, and everything that goes on in it. When a person writes a poem, they are not always writing about what they themselves want to do, but what they see going on in the world. Letting kids express themselves in this way is better than letting whatever feelings they had fester. We can help them if we know what they are feeling. The fact that he had no guns or other weapons and that he wasn't behaving erratically leads me to believe it was probably simply artistic expression.

He had a list of people he was going to shoot, I was on it. He is a fucked up kid, the exact kind that would probably shoot up a school.

JESUS

Its a crazy kid writing poem about killing kids. Not a political rant. This has nothing to do with the government, but with the school.

yes, thats what i was trying to say, but they didnt listen to me i hate people
I hate to burst your bubble. But the school is part of the government. So yes it is political speech.
Everything written about school is political speech and as such is protected.

no its not! good christ jesus in heaven!
How old are you? Do you know anything at all about government kid?
The basic fact is that schools are a branch of the state government.

Dude, imprisoning this kid will only bring him closer to the edge. He needs consuling not imprisonment.

There was this kid that had a hit list and short stories about what he was going to kill here. I was on the list.

Actually, consuling is stupid, I went there once because they thought I was mentally unstable. Basically it's a lady asking you why you feel angry, and you always answer "I don't know."
What we need to do is allow these kids to express themselves in poems and drawings. History and modern studies show that people who vent themselves in poems and drawings are 99% less likely to actually do this stuff in real life.

When kids start making hit lists and you're on them. Let's see what you say then.
Let him write what he wants... what if the "hit list" its a joke? What then?
The logic is just as bad as saying lets shoot suspicious people on sight.
The people who arrested this kid ARE arresting people just because they are suspicious or different.

I'm 17 and junior in highschool and I would prefer you not using kid in a condescending manner. Let's be civil here please.

I know schools are a branch of the state government. But still, its the administration, not the President or Supreme Court saying "you can't do that"

I understand, it's protected. I think they should watch the kid, but not imprison him, it'll only piss him off more.

Thing is, the "government" is not getting involved, it is not them surpressing this kid. It is school administration being afraid of a school shooting.
The school administration is the government. They are the only govt. officials school kids ever come in contact with unless some one higher up visits.

He had a list of people he was going to shoot, I was on it. He is a f--- up kid, the exact kind that would probably shoot up a school.

Thats just a paranoid assumption. We need less restirctions on expression of opinion and speech, not more... It's just under circumstancs large groups of peopel become paranoid... I wonder how many school shootings have they prevented by pressing charged on kids who wrote or drew violent things...

I write poems, mine are usually dark, depressing, and cynical. If you read them and didn't know me, you would probably think i was on the verge of suicide when actually my personality is the complete opposite. Most of my poems are not even about me, even the ones in first person are usually about fictional characters i made up. In the ones that are about me, the feelings are exaggerated. I am inspired by life, and everything that goes on in it. When a person writes a poem, they are not always writing about what they themselves want to do, but what they see going on in the world. Letting kids express themselves in this way is better than letting whatever feelings they had fester. We can help them if we know what they are feeling. The fact that he had no guns or other weapons and that he wasn't behaving erratically leads me to believe it was probably simply artistic expression.
And the people that arrested the kid inthis report would most likely arrest you if they read your poems.

JESUS

Its a crazy kid writing poem about killing kids. Not a political rant. This has nothing to do with the government, but with the school.

yes, thats what i was trying to say, but they didnt listen to me i hate people
I hate to burst your bubble. But the school is part of the government. So yes it is political speech.
Everything written about school is political speech and as such is protected.

no its not! good christ jesus in heaven!
How old are you? Do you know anything at all about government kid?
The basic fact is that schools are a branch of the state government.

true they are. But public schools are a totally different soverign body. Students are subject to search and seizure on the lightest of "evidence" that the administrator deems fit. And you can't plead the 5th on your Chemistry final exam, i've tried.

I GET YOUR POINT. BASICALLY WHAT I'M REFUTING IS LETILA'S POINT ABOUT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT CRUSHING DESCENT.

oops, caps lock.

Dude, imprisoning this kid will only bring him closer to the edge. He needs consuling not imprisonment.

There was this kid that had a hit list and short stories about what he was going to kill here. I was on the list.

Actually, consuling is stupid, I went there once because they thought I was mentally unstable. Basically it's a lady asking you why you feel angry, and you always answer "I don't know."
What we need to do is allow these kids to express themselves in poems and drawings. History and modern studies show that people who vent themselves in poems and drawings are 99% less likely to actually do this stuff in real life.

When kids start making hit lists and you're on them. Let's see what you say then.
Let him write what he wants... what if the "hit list" its a joke? What then?
The logic is just as bad as saying lets shoot suspicious people on sight.
The people who arrested this kid ARE arresting people just because they are suspicious or different.
That is my whole point. Except swap are suspicious with seem suspicious and thats exactly my point.

He had a list of people he was going to shoot, I was on it. He is a f--- up kid, the exact kind that would probably shoot up a school.

Thats just a paranoid assumption. We need less restirctions on expression of opinion and speech, not more... It's just under circumstancs large groups of peopel become paranoid... I wonder how many school shootings have they prevented by pressing charged on kids who wrote or drew violent things...

I'm not saying they should imprison. I'm saying they should "watch them" or something.

Any speech or writing that is deemed threatening can be charged as making death threats and the person can be arrested. This was made in Chaplinsky v New Hampshire, a 1942 supreme court case. Chaplinsky was walking about his city calling the city govt. fascist and calling for it's destruction...

He had a list of people he was going to shoot, I was on it. He is a f--- up kid, the exact kind that would probably shoot up a school.
He was most likely crying out for help by expressing himself.
Don;t you know that kids who are bullied by a lot of people at school can be emotionally traumatized for life even if you never touch them but always pick on them and emotionally, mentally, and verbally abuse them?

He was saying he was hruting and all you can say is that you hope he's dead and rotting away?

He had a list of people he was going to shoot, I was on it. He is a f--- up kid, the exact kind that would probably shoot up a school.

Thats just a paranoid assumption. We need less restirctions on expression of opinion and speech, not more... It's just under circumstancs large groups of peopel become paranoid... I wonder how many school shootings have they prevented by pressing charged on kids who wrote or drew violent things...

I'm not saying they should imprison. I'm saying they should "watch them" or something.

Well when the government starts to watch suspicious people... more and more people start to seem suspicious until everyone is a potentially suspcious person.

Or maybe they'll just try to make things equal for everybody... If a certain group gets watched everybody gets watched

I'm 17 and junior in highschool and I would prefer you not using kid in a condescending manner. Let's be civil here please.

I know schools are a branch of the state government. But still, its the administration, not the President or Supreme Court saying "you can't do that"
You are not getting the point. You're not understanding.
The administration is acting on behalf of the governor and the courts.

i think the kid should get help, but i dont' think those kind of extremes should be taken. he could just be going through a bad time, but no one cares about that do they?

Well, they might send me to a psychiatrist or mental hospital, but my poems aren't violent. I don't write about killing people or doing anything cruel to anyone, though i have written about war, so i don't know if they would arrest me. They probably would get the wrong impression though.

He can hurt all he wants as long as he doesn't write things about killing me and my friends.

You know how easy it is to but a sub-machine gun around here?

He had a list of people he was going to shoot, I was on it. He is a f--- up kid, the exact kind that would probably shoot up a school.

Thats just a paranoid assumption. We need less restirctions on expression of opinion and speech, not more... It's just under circumstancs large groups of peopel become paranoid... I wonder how many school shootings have they prevented by pressing charged on kids who wrote or drew violent things...
Jefferson wrote that paranoia was one of the greatest threats to freedom.

I thought it was clear to everyone that threats are not covered under free-speech.

JESUS

Its a crazy kid writing poem about killing kids. Not a political rant. This has nothing to do with the government, but with the school.
It has everything to do with politics.
Just because he writes a poem about don't mean he's going to do it.
Psycho kids don't do poems when they're planning to shoot up schools.
Law enforcement around the world knows this.

Oh yeah, when you're in class with a kid who writes poetic death threats to you it makes you feel so much better that just because he wrote it doesn't mean he's going to do it.

How about if you're a parent? I bet you really want your little boy or girl going to school with illustrious kids like this one.

If he doesn't figure out that it's wrong to threaten people's lives, he'll do it more, and so will other people.

JESUS

Its a crazy kid writing poem about killing kids. Not a political rant. This has nothing to do with the government, but with the school.

yes, thats what i was trying to say, but they didnt listen to me i hate people
I hate to burst your bubble. But the school is part of the government. So yes it is political speech.
Everything written about school is political speech and as such is protected.

no its not! good christ jesus in heaven!
How old are you? Do you know anything at all about government kid?
The basic fact is that schools are a branch of the state government.

true they are. But public schools are a totally different soverign body. Students are subject to search and seizure on the lightest of "evidence" that the administrator deems fit. And you can't plead the 5th on your Chemistry final exam, i've tried.
Free speech does not protect kids who do drugs. Taking drugs is not free speech but self expression and self expression can be restricted depending on its form.

This is sick. A kid writes a poem about killing students AND YOU BLAME THE GOVERNMENT?

I'm 13, and I think i know HOW SERIOUS us teens can be when we say we'll kill someone. Especially when we say it in an emotional form such as poetry.


Makes me sick knowing that I share agreements with some of you people. You base many of your assumptions on "what if's"

"What if there's an innocent that gets capitol punishment?"
"What if he never meant it?"


WELL WHAT IF YOUR WRONG? HOW GOOD DO YOU FEEL IF THIS KID MURDERED PEERS?

He put this girl on the list, she was scared and she cried. I wasn't scared, but I dislike people threatening my life.

He can hurt all he wants as long as he doesn't write things about killing me and my friends.

You know how easy it is to but a sub-machine gun around here?

Okay wow...
Thats the kind of atitude that prosecutors for the cases seem to have.
So okay... what if he doesn't write things about killing you and your firends but instead thinks them? Is that any better? Does that change anything? Perhaps, maybe the lack of expression may agitate him enough to actually go through with his thoughts.

Any speech or writing that is deemed threatening can be charged as making death threats and the person can be arrested. This was made in some big early 20th century supreme court case where some religious fanatic was walking about his city making statements similar to the poem...
Actually there was never was any such court case.

Have you ever been cornered and had your ass kicked? Been almost stabbed?

Shit happens at school. I don't need more shit, especially in the form of kids threatening me.

I thought it was clear to everyone that threats are not covered under free-speech.
If its political in nature it is covered.

This is sick. A kid writes a poem about killing students AND YOU BLAME THE GOVERNMENT?

I'm 13, and I think i know HOW SERIOUS us teens can be when we say we'll kill someone. Especially when we say it in an emotional form such as poetry.


Makes me sick knowing that I share agreements with some of you people. You base many of your assumptions on "what if's"

"What if there's an innocent that gets capitol punishment?"
"What if he never meant it?"


WELL WHAT IF YOUR WRONG? HOW GOOD DO YOU FEEL IF THIS KID MURDERED PEERS?

Well how good would you feel if a kid gets sent to prison just because he was pissed off one time and wrote some shit?

JESUS

Its a crazy kid writing poem about killing kids. Not a political rant. This has nothing to do with the government, but with the school.
It has everything to do with politics.
Just because he writes a poem about don't mean he's going to do it.
Psycho kids don't do poems when they're planning to shoot up schools.
Law enforcement around the world knows this.

Oh yeah, when you're in class with a kid who writes poetic death threats to you it makes you feel so much better that just because he wrote it doesn't mean he's going to do it.

How about if you're a parent? I bet you really want your little boy or girl going to school with illustrious kids like this one.

If he doesn't figure out that it's wrong to threaten people's lives, he'll do it more, and so will other people.
It's only a crime if he actually goes out and buys a gun and actually plans out how he's going to do it. Not if he writes that's what he wants to do.
There is a big difference. You can't put him in jail jsut because some people are paranoid.

You can put him in jail for threatening people

Have you ever been cornered and had your ass kicked? Been almost stabbed?

Shit happens at school. I don't need more shit, especially in the form of kids threatening me.

So you mean to tell me that you regret nothing that you ever wrote? Just tell me that... Hell we all might have written something that would seem suspicious... Maybe it was a joke... maybe it was just a phase.... maybe there were personal circumstances...


How would you like to be prosecuted for writing something as a joke huh?

This is sick. A kid writes a poem about killing students AND YOU BLAME THE GOVERNMENT?

I'm 13, and I think i know HOW SERIOUS us teens can be when we say we'll kill someone. Especially when we say it in an emotional form such as poetry.


Makes me sick knowing that I share agreements with some of you people. You base many of your assumptions on "what if's"

"What if there's an innocent that gets capitol punishment?"
"What if he never meant it?"


WELL WHAT IF YOUR WRONG? HOW GOOD DO YOU FEEL IF THIS KID MURDERED PEERS?
When you turn 21, you will have a better understanding than you do now. And a greater respect for free speech rights.

JESUS

Its a crazy kid writing poem about killing kids. Not a political rant. This has nothing to do with the government, but with the school.
It has everything to do with politics.
Just because he writes a poem about don't mean he's going to do it.
Psycho kids don't do poems when they're planning to shoot up schools.
Law enforcement around the world knows this.

Oh yeah, when you're in class with a kid who writes poetic death threats to you it makes you feel so much better that just because he wrote it doesn't mean he's going to do it.

How about if you're a parent? I bet you really want your little boy or girl going to school with illustrious kids like this one.

If he doesn't figure out that it's wrong to threaten people's lives, he'll do it more, and so will other people.
It's only a crime if he actually goes out and buys a gun and actually plans out how he's going to do it. Not if he writes that's what he wants to do.
There is a big difference. You can't put him in jail jsut because some people are paranoid.
And what if this was step one in his master plan to kill? What'll you say then? "Omigosh, no biggie..."

Dude, imprisoning this kid will only bring him closer to the edge. He needs consuling not imprisonment.

There was this kid that had a hit list and short stories about what he was going to kill here. I was on the list.

Actually, consuling is stupid, I went there once because they thought I was mentally unstable. Basically it's a lady asking you why you feel angry, and you always answer "I don't know."
What we need to do is allow these kids to express themselves in poems and drawings. History and modern studies show that people who vent themselves in poems and drawings are 99% less likely to actually do this stuff in real life.

When kids start making hit lists and you're on them. Let's see what you say then.
Let him write what he wants... what if the "hit list" its a joke? What then?
The logic is just as bad as saying lets shoot suspicious people on sight.
The people who arrested this kid ARE arresting people just because they are suspicious or different.

oh yeah, and because they're making death threats. But other than that...

I'd be pissed, but when I have written things that are questionable, I've known that I'd get in shit for it.

He put this girl on the list, she was scared and she cried. I wasn't scared, but I dislike people threatening my life.
OF course she was scared and she cried. she was kid. She wasn't mature enough to understand the difference between expression and actually plotting to kill people.

He put this girl on the list, she was scared and she cried. I wasn't scared, but I dislike people threatening my life.
OF course she was scared and she cried. she was kid. She wasn't mature enough to understand the difference between expression and actually plotting to kill people.

WOW, THAT'S A GOOD ONE

SHE'S CRYING BECAUSE HER LIFE WAS THREATENED...SHE MUST BE IMMATURE!!!

No one used to care about these things until the wave of school shootings in the late 90's.

There are and were definately tell-tale signs on people that will bring violence to their school. Expressing the will to kill is one of them.

If I called in a bomb threat to a local high school, and they tracked me, I would be arrested rightly.

He put this girl on the list, she was scared and she cried. I wasn't scared, but I dislike people threatening my life.
OF course she was scared and she cried. she was kid. She wasn't mature enough to understand the difference between expression and actually plotting to kill people.
Holy ****....people think like this?

So if you see someone continue writing notes about how he's going to kill you....your gonna shrug it off and think of it as nothing till he actually kills you?

No wait...let's have your sister, brother, mother be in this situation.

JESUS

Its a crazy kid writing poem about killing kids. Not a political rant. This has nothing to do with the government, but with the school.
It has everything to do with politics.
Just because he writes a poem about don't mean he's going to do it.
Psycho kids don't do poems when they're planning to shoot up schools.
Law enforcement around the world knows this.

Oh yeah, when you're in class with a kid who writes poetic death threats to you it makes you feel so much better that just because he wrote it doesn't mean he's going to do it.

How about if you're a parent? I bet you really want your little boy or girl going to school with illustrious kids like this one.

If he doesn't figure out that it's wrong to threaten people's lives, he'll do it more, and so will other people.
It's only a crime if he actually goes out and buys a gun and actually plans out how he's going to do it. Not if he writes that's what he wants to do.
There is a big difference. You can't put him in jail jsut because some people are paranoid.
And what if this was step one in his master plan to kill? What'll you say then? "Omigosh, no biggie..."

Okay frankly what kind of idiot would write out his plans to kill people and give it to people... I mean there is a difference between deranged and stupid...

JESUS

Its a crazy kid writing poem about killing kids. Not a political rant. This has nothing to do with the government, but with the school.
It has everything to do with politics.
Just because he writes a poem about don't mean he's going to do it.
Psycho kids don't do poems when they're planning to shoot up schools.
Law enforcement around the world knows this.

Oh yeah, when you're in class with a kid who writes poetic death threats to you it makes you feel so much better that just because he wrote it doesn't mean he's going to do it.

How about if you're a parent? I bet you really want your little boy or girl going to school with illustrious kids like this one.

If he doesn't figure out that it's wrong to threaten people's lives, he'll do it more, and so will other people.
It's only a crime if he actually goes out and buys a gun and actually plans out how he's going to do it. Not if he writes that's what he wants to do.
There is a big difference. You can't put him in jail jsut because some people are paranoid.
And what if this was step one in his master plan to kill? What'll you say then? "Omigosh, no biggie..."

Okay frankly what kind of idiot would write out his plans to kill people and give it to people... I mean there is a difference between deranged and stupid...
well...there are conservatives, fascists, anarchists, goths....the list goes on.

I'm a senior in high school, and I know if someone was talking about shooting the place up, I would want them out of school. It is the school's job to keep its students safe, and if they just ignored people who write about killing their fellow students (just as the Columbine pair did) they would be grossly neglegient.

Maybe he wants to scare people before he does it?
Maybe he wants to scare people period? But thats still a crime, its called harassment.

No one used to care about these things until the wave of school shootings in the late 90's.

There are and were definately tell-tale signs on people that will bring violence to their school. Expressing the will to kill is one of them.

If I called in a bomb threat to a local high school, and they tracked me, I would be arrested rightly.
Expressing the will to kill purges the will to kill.

I'm sure someone has already said that in some way. But they probably didn't actually detain him for writing the poem, but for what it said (even if the press reported it like that, they could always be wrong). They probably detained the child in question for the threats made. In todays world, sadly, every threat is taken seriously. :(

In the event paticular to my school. The paper was found on top of the kid's books when he went to the bathroom. One of my friends looked at it and reported it.

No one used to care about these things until the wave of school shootings in the late 90's.

There are and were definately tell-tale signs on people that will bring violence to their school. Expressing the will to kill is one of them.

If I called in a bomb threat to a local high school, and they tracked me, I would be arrested rightly.
Expressing the will to kill purges the will to kill.

Because that rule applies to everything.

No one used to care about these things until the wave of school shootings in the late 90's.

There are and were definately tell-tale signs on people that will bring violence to their school. Expressing the will to kill is one of them.

If I called in a bomb threat to a local high school, and they tracked me, I would be arrested rightly.
Expressing the will to kill purges the will to kill.The Columbine bastards expressed their will to kill in writing and on the internet, but it didn't purge them.

No one used to care about these things until the wave of school shootings in the late 90's.

There are and were definately tell-tale signs on people that will bring violence to their school. Expressing the will to kill is one of them.

If I called in a bomb threat to a local high school, and they tracked me, I would be arrested rightly.
Expressing the will to kill purges the will to kill.

Sometimes you right, sometimes your not. Whats being gambled with? People's lives.

Have you ever been cornered and had your ass kicked? Been almost stabbed?

Shit happens at school. I don't need more shit, especially in the form of kids threatening me.
Yes I have when I was your age. I was constantly bullied by everyone when I was a kid and in school.
Yes I did sometimes write poems about killing these people. but I never did it.
Have you ever heard of group bullying? There is such a thing. Its when everyone in a school or a large group in school picks on one person and abuses that person emotionally, mentally and verbally.
what you would call teasing is abuse. And when it leads to someone committing suicide it makes you guilty of first degree murder.
If it causes that person to go out kill, yes it makes you guilty of second degree murder cause you are the one who caused him to do it.
I have had guns and knives put to my back.
And I still suffer the emotional scars from it. Including attacks of severe depression and anger that you have no control over. You could never understand what its like to be the victim in thes cases.
When you've experiended any of this, then you will have the right to talk but until then.

What all of you people don't realize is its just paranoia. Yeah lets get them... those damn crazy murderers... but wait until you are wrongly accused. The justice system is not as just as you're taught to believe. You hear the arguement for all sorts of tracking and monitoring plans... If your doing nothing wrong you have nothing to fear...

But you should fear. The more stringenet restirctions restirctions are to freedoms of speech, expression and the more monitoring there is the greater are the chances that there will be more people wrongly prosecuted.

What all of you people don't realize is its just paranoia. Yeah lets get them... those damn crazy murderers... but wait until you are wrongly accused. The justice system is not as just as you're taught to believe. You hear the arguement for all sorts of tracking and monitoring plans... If your doing nothing wrong you have nothing to fear...

But you should fear. The more stringenet restirctions restirctions are to freedoms of speech, expression and the more monitoring there is the greater are the chances that there will be more people wrongly prosecuted.

What all of you people don't realize is its just paranoia. Yeah lets get them... those damn crazy murderers... but wait until you are wrongly accused. The justice system is not as just as you're taught to believe. You hear the arguement for all sorts of tracking and monitoring plans... If your doing nothing wrong you have nothing to fear...

But you should fear. The more stringenet restirctions restirctions are to freedoms of speech, expression and the more monitoring there is the greater are the chances that there will be more people wrongly prosecuted.

Have you ever been cornered and had your ass kicked? Been almost stabbed?

Shit happens at school. I don't need more shit, especially in the form of kids threatening me.
Yes I have when I was your age. I was constantly bullied by everyone when I was a kid and in school.
Yes I did sometimes write poems about killing these people. but I never did it.
Have you ever heard of group bullying? There is such a thing. Its when everyone in a school or a large group in school picks on one person and abuses that person emotionally, mentally and verbally.
what you would call teasing is abuse. And when it leads to someone committing suicide it makes you guilty of first degree murder.
If it causes that person to go out kill, yes it makes you guilty of second degree murder cause you are the one who caused him to do it.
I have had guns and knives put to my back.
And I still suffer the emotional scars from it. Including attacks of severe depression and anger that you have no control over. You could never understand what its like to be the victim in thes cases.
When you've experiended any of this, then you will have the right to talk but until then.

yes, you speak for EVERYONE out there when you say "I held it in"

What all of you people don't realize is its just paranoia. Yeah lets get them... those damn crazy murderers... but wait until you are wrongly accused. The justice system is not as just as you're taught to believe. You hear the arguement for all sorts of tracking and monitoring plans... If your doing nothing wrong you have nothing to fear...

But you should fear. The more stringenet restirctions restirctions are to freedoms of speech, expression and the more monitoring there is the greater are the chances that there will be more people wrongly prosecuted.

Have you ever been cornered and had your ass kicked? Been almost stabbed?

Shit happens at school. I don't need more shit, especially in the form of kids threatening me.

So you mean to tell me that you regret nothing that you ever wrote? Just tell me that... Hell we all might have written something that would seem suspicious... Maybe it was a joke... maybe it was just a phase.... maybe there were personal circumstances...


How would you like to be prosecuted for writing something as a joke huh?
Heck, there was one time they almost suspended me just because I put posted one little sign calling someone a homo.

What all of you people don't realize is its just paranoia. Yeah lets get them... those damn crazy murderers... but wait until you are wrongly accused. The justice system is not as just as you're taught to believe. You hear the arguement for all sorts of tracking and monitoring plans... If your doing nothing wrong you have nothing to fear...

But you should fear. The more stringenet restirctions restirctions are to freedoms of speech, expression and the more monitoring there is the greater are the chances that there will be more people wrongly prosecuted.

Have you ever been cornered and had your ass kicked? Been almost stabbed?

Shit happens at school. I don't need more shit, especially in the form of kids threatening me.
Yes I have when I was your age. I was constantly bullied by everyone when I was a kid and in school.
Yes I did sometimes write poems about killing these people. but I never did it.
Have you ever heard of group bullying? There is such a thing. Its when everyone in a school or a large group in school picks on one person and abuses that person emotionally, mentally and verbally.
what you would call teasing is abuse. And when it leads to someone committing suicide it makes you guilty of first degree murder.
If it causes that person to go out kill, yes it makes you guilty of second degree murder cause you are the one who caused him to do it.
I have had guns and knives put to my back.
And I still suffer the emotional scars from it. Including attacks of severe depression and anger that you have no control over. You could never understand what its like to be the victim in thes cases.
When you've experiended any of this, then you will have the right to talk but until then.

yes, you speak for EVERYONE out there when you say "I held it in"

He put this girl on the list, she was scared and she cried. I wasn't scared, but I dislike people threatening my life.
OF course she was scared and she cried. she was kid. She wasn't mature enough to understand the difference between expression and actually plotting to kill people.

There's healthier ways to express your emotions than death threats.

If there's one thing I've learned counseling children, it's that you should NEVER disregard the strength or the seriousness of their feelings because of their age. If you think that the kid writing death threats was just whimsically expressing himself, you've got another thing coming. Those poems don't come out of left field, they express emotions he feels, and you should never doubt that he is ready to carry them out simply because he is young. The fact that you do trumpets your ignorance for all to see.

And yes I have been made fun of quite seriously, especially in 8th and 9th grade.

I seriously considered suicide for about a month

But I got over it, so stop whining

He put this girl on the list, she was scared and she cried. I wasn't scared, but I dislike people threatening my life.
OF course she was scared and she cried. she was kid. She wasn't mature enough to understand the difference between expression and actually plotting to kill people.

There's healthier ways to express your emotions than death threats.

If there's one thing I've learned counseling children, it's that you should NEVER disregard the strength or the seriousness of their feelings because of their age. If you think that the kid writing death threats was just whimsically expressing himself, you've got another thing coming. Those poems don't come out of left field, they express emotions he feels, and you should never doubt that he is ready to carry them out simply because he is young. The fact that you do trumpets your ignorance for all to see.
You have any proof of that?

(sorry for the quintuple post by the way...)

Have you ever been cornered and had your ass kicked? Been almost stabbed?

Shit happens at school. I don't need more shit, especially in the form of kids threatening me.

So you mean to tell me that you regret nothing that you ever wrote? Just tell me that... Hell we all might have written something that would seem suspicious... Maybe it was a joke... maybe it was just a phase.... maybe there were personal circumstances...


How would you like to be prosecuted for writing something as a joke huh?
Heck, there was one time they almost suspended me just because I put posted one little sign calling someone a homo.Sexual harrassment and defamation. Definitely against the rules.

Dude, imprisoning this kid will only bring him closer to the edge. He needs consuling not imprisonment.

There was this kid that had a hit list and short stories about what he was going to kill here. I was on the list.

Actually, consuling is stupid, I went there once because they thought I was mentally unstable. Basically it's a lady asking you why you feel angry, and you always answer "I don't know."
What we need to do is allow these kids to express themselves in poems and drawings. History and modern studies show that people who vent themselves in poems and drawings are 99% less likely to actually do this stuff in real life.

When kids start making hit lists and you're on them. Let's see what you say then.
Let him write what he wants... what if the "hit list" its a joke? What then?
The logic is just as bad as saying lets shoot suspicious people on sight.
The people who arrested this kid ARE arresting people just because they are suspicious or different.

oh yeah, and because they're making death threats. But other than that...
Now you are just being plain paranoid.

The Columbine kids wrote about killing quite a bit, they just were never caught.

JESUS

Its a crazy kid writing poem about killing kids. Not a political rant. This has nothing to do with the government, but with the school.
It has everything to do with politics.
Just because he writes a poem about don't mean he's going to do it.
Psycho kids don't do poems when they're planning to shoot up schools.
Law enforcement around the world knows this.

Oh yeah, when you're in class with a kid who writes poetic death threats to you it makes you feel so much better that just because he wrote it doesn't mean he's going to do it.

How about if you're a parent? I bet you really want your little boy or girl going to school with illustrious kids like this one.

If he doesn't figure out that it's wrong to threaten people's lives, he'll do it more, and so will other people.
It's only a crime if he actually goes out and buys a gun and actually plans out how he's going to do it. Not if he writes that's what he wants to do.
There is a big difference. You can't put him in jail jsut because some people are paranoid.
And what if this was step one in his master plan to kill? What'll you say then? "Omigosh, no biggie..."

Okay frankly what kind of idiot would write out his plans to kill people and give it to people... I mean there is a difference between deranged and stupid...
well...there are conservatives, fascists, anarchists, goths....the list goes on.
Killers don't write about and publish their plans for the world to see.

Maybe he wants to scare people before he does it?
Maybe he wants to scare people period? But thats still a crime, its called harassment.
Its only harrassment if he's posting all over the place and calling their homes and making the threats.

The Columbine kids wrote about killing quite a bit, they just were never caught.

Okay have you personally seen what they wrote or did the newspapers just say that... Or maybe you heard it from someone...

Eh?

Show me some valid proof if you can.

JESUS

Its a crazy kid writing poem about killing kids. Not a political rant. This has nothing to do with the government, but with the school.
It has everything to do with politics.
Just because he writes a poem about don't mean he's going to do it.
Psycho kids don't do poems when they're planning to shoot up schools.
Law enforcement around the world knows this.

Oh yeah, when you're in class with a kid who writes poetic death threats to you it makes you feel so much better that just because he wrote it doesn't mean he's going to do it.

How about if you're a parent? I bet you really want your little boy or girl going to school with illustrious kids like this one.

If he doesn't figure out that it's wrong to threaten people's lives, he'll do it more, and so will other people.
It's only a crime if he actually goes out and buys a gun and actually plans out how he's going to do it. Not if he writes that's what he wants to do.
There is a big difference. You can't put him in jail jsut because some people are paranoid.
And what if this was step one in his master plan to kill? What'll you say then? "Omigosh, no biggie..."

Okay frankly what kind of idiot would write out his plans to kill people and give it to people... I mean there is a difference between deranged and stupid...
well...there are conservatives, fascists, anarchists, goths....the list goes on.
Killers don't write about and publish their plans for the world to see.

personal experiance? Figured

In the event paticular to my school. The paper was found on top of the kid's books when he went to the bathroom. One of my friends looked at it and reported it.
That's not the same as plastering it all over campus and what your friend did is called invasion of privacy and he could go to jail for that.

No one used to care about these things until the wave of school shootings in the late 90's.

There are and were definately tell-tale signs on people that will bring violence to their school. Expressing the will to kill is one of them.

If I called in a bomb threat to a local high school, and they tracked me, I would be arrested rightly.
Expressing the will to kill purges the will to kill.

Sometimes you right, sometimes your not. Whats being gambled with? People's lives.
That's paranoia speaking plain and simple.

No one used to care about these things until the wave of school shootings in the late 90's.

There are and were definately tell-tale signs on people that will bring violence to their school. Expressing the will to kill is one of them.

If I called in a bomb threat to a local high school, and they tracked me, I would be arrested rightly.
Expressing the will to kill purges the will to kill.

Sometimes you right, sometimes your not. Whats being gambled with? People's lives.
That's paranoia speaking plain and simple.
What's better? Paranoia or people dying?

I can't believe that people are saying kids should be allowed to write about killing people at their school.

We're talking about killing people.

Dead.

People.

Registering?

You can sit around make causal inferences for all sorts of factors... However you can't really validate any claims that shootings could be prevented by this and this is a sign of future violence....

However, violence will still happen no matter how much you restrict everything. Monitoring those who express themselves in a wirtten manner only creates a false comfort. Even if they do arrest them or watch them or even execute them. There will still be plenty of equally disturbed kids who will not express themselves in any way and still kill people.

He put this girl on the list, she was scared and she cried. I wasn't scared, but I dislike people threatening my life.
OF course she was scared and she cried. she was kid. She wasn't mature enough to understand the difference between expression and actually plotting to kill people.

There's healthier ways to express your emotions than death threats.

If there's one thing I've learned counseling children, it's that you should NEVER disregard the strength or the seriousness of their feelings because of their age. If you think that the kid writing death threats was just whimsically expressing himself, you've got another thing coming. Those poems don't come out of left field, they express emotions he feels, and you should never doubt that he is ready to carry them out simply because he is young. The fact that you do trumpets your ignorance for all to see.
Uh, no. There is a point when you become so traumatized that the only legal way to vent is to write about killing people.

Have you ever been cornered and had your ass kicked? Been almost stabbed?

Shit happens at school. I don't need more shit, especially in the form of kids threatening me.

So you mean to tell me that you regret nothing that you ever wrote? Just tell me that... Hell we all might have written something that would seem suspicious... Maybe it was a joke... maybe it was just a phase.... maybe there were personal circumstances...


How would you like to be prosecuted for writing something as a joke huh?
Heck, there was one time they almost suspended me just because I put posted one little sign calling someone a homo.Sexual harrassment and defamation. Definitely against the rules.
That sob was a bully and he had it coming.

I can't believe that people are saying kids should be allowed to write about killing people at their school.I can't believe that people are saying kids should be allowed to write about killing people at their school.

Have you ever been cornered and had your ass kicked? Been almost stabbed?

Shit happens at school. I don't need more shit, especially in the form of kids threatening me.

So you mean to tell me that you regret nothing that you ever wrote? Just tell me that... Hell we all might have written something that would seem suspicious... Maybe it was a joke... maybe it was just a phase.... maybe there were personal circumstances...


How would you like to be prosecuted for writing something as a joke huh?
Heck, there was one time they almost suspended me just because I put posted one little sign calling someone a homo.Sexual harrassment and defamation. Definitely against the rules.
That sob was a bully and he had it coming.Still against the rules.

Have you ever been cornered and had your ass kicked? Been almost stabbed?

Shit happens at school. I don't need more shit, especially in the form of kids threatening me.

So you mean to tell me that you regret nothing that you ever wrote? Just tell me that... Hell we all might have written something that would seem suspicious... Maybe it was a joke... maybe it was just a phase.... maybe there were personal circumstances...


How would you like to be prosecuted for writing something as a joke huh?
Heck, there was one time they almost suspended me just because I put posted one little sign calling someone a homo.Sexual harrassment and defamation. Definitely against the rules.
That sob was a bully and he had it coming.Still against the rules.
Do you know how many almost suspensions you would have in any school if that rule was enforced completely? I'd say more than 2/3rds.

What is UncleBob's platform for this argument? This is all jarbled up now...

Have you ever been cornered and had your ass kicked? Been almost stabbed?

Shit happens at school. I don't need more shit, especially in the form of kids threatening me.

So you mean to tell me that you regret nothing that you ever wrote? Just tell me that... Hell we all might have written something that would seem suspicious... Maybe it was a joke... maybe it was just a phase.... maybe there were personal circumstances...


How would you like to be prosecuted for writing something as a joke huh?
Heck, there was one time they almost suspended me just because I put posted one little sign calling someone a homo.Sexual harrassment and defamation. Definitely against the rules.
That sob was a bully and he had it coming.Still against the rules.
I still got back at him by framing the sob for something he didn't do whereby making it where he got expelled, was never allowed to graduate, and even went to jail for a year.
And I still convinced peolpe he was gay even though he wasn't.
And there was nothing he or anyone else could do about it.
Fuck with me, and I get you back good.
Come to think about, I do believe he was beaten one time by a group of people who did believe the stuff about him being gay.
And through my advance political cunning (for my age) I got away with it.

Thats amazingly good.

Best. Revenge. Ever.

What is UncleBob's platform for this argument? This is all jarbled up now...
The kid is being persecuted by paranoid schizophrenics for what is clearly political speech.

Have you ever been cornered and had your ass kicked? Been almost stabbed?

Shit happens at school. I don't need more shit, especially in the form of kids threatening me.

So you mean to tell me that you regret nothing that you ever wrote? Just tell me that... Hell we all might have written something that would seem suspicious... Maybe it was a joke... maybe it was just a phase.... maybe there were personal circumstances...


How would you like to be prosecuted for writing something as a joke huh?
Heck, there was one time they almost suspended me just because I put posted one little sign calling someone a homo.Sexual harrassment and defamation. Definitely against the rules.
That sob was a bully and he had it coming.Still against the rules.
I still got back at him by framing the sob for something he didn't do whereby making it where he got expelled, was never allowed to graduate, and even went to jail for a year.
And I still convinced peolpe he was gay even though he wasn't.
And there was nothing he or anyone else could do about it.
f--- with me, and I get you back good.
Come to think about, I do believe he was beaten one time by a group of people who did believe the stuff about him being gay.
And through my advance political cunning (for my age) I got away with it.Riiiggghhhhtttt... I'm not sure I believe you.

What is UncleBob's platform for this argument? This is all jarbled up now...
The kid is being persecuted by paranoid schizophrenics for what is clearly political speech.

ahh...anything besides paranoia that you blame the government for?

I'm going to kill him and her and that teacher is not political speech.

Thats amazingly good.

Best. Revenge. Ever.
I might of written about killing someone, but I could never do that.
I'm not that kind person, not then, not now. Unless you are present a clear threat to the life of another person.

Political speech does not include talking about killing people.

Have you ever been cornered and had your ass kicked? Been almost stabbed?

Shit happens at school. I don't need more shit, especially in the form of kids threatening me.

So you mean to tell me that you regret nothing that you ever wrote? Just tell me that... Hell we all might have written something that would seem suspicious... Maybe it was a joke... maybe it was just a phase.... maybe there were personal circumstances...


How would you like to be prosecuted for writing something as a joke huh?
Heck, there was one time they almost suspended me just because I put posted one little sign calling someone a homo.Sexual harrassment and defamation. Definitely against the rules.
That sob was a bully and he had it coming.Still against the rules.
I still got back at him by framing the sob for something he didn't do whereby making it where he got expelled, was never allowed to graduate, and even went to jail for a year.
And I still convinced peolpe he was gay even though he wasn't.
And there was nothing he or anyone else could do about it.
f--- with me, and I get you back good.
Come to think about, I do believe he was beaten one time by a group of people who did believe the stuff about him being gay.
And through my advance political cunning (for my age) I got away with it.Riiiggghhhhtttt... I'm not sure I believe you.
I don't thin you would cause you are still locked in that little world there where you have been in the real world.

I'm going to kill him and her and that teacher is not political speech.
The poem did not say going to... it said can...

There's a differnece... The prosecutors appeal to fear.

I can't believe that people are saying kids should be allowed to write about killing people at their school.I can't believe that people are saying kids should be allowed to write about killing people at their school.Dude, I haven't read the rest of this thread and I don't plan to, but if you're looking for someone to defend the rights of kids to write about whatever they damn well please, then I'm your guy.

I'm a poet, and by that I don't mean I just write poetry in my spare time. It's what I do for a living right now. Believe me when I tell you that there is no subject--and I mean absolutely none--that I don't consider a potential subject for my writing. If you close yourself off from possibility simply because someone else might find it distasteful or even frightening, then you'll never truly create art. You may never explore some facets in your quest to create art, but you can't close them off.

And when you're a teen, when you're coming into that period of life where you're starting to understand what it means to be mortal, you're going to think about death and all its many and varied facets--including violent death. It's natural. I'd rather have a kid writing about it and getting it out than being punished for something he can't help but think about.

Political speech does not include talking about killing people.
THis is useless. what the hell do you know about what political speech covers. Nothing. Absolutely nothing cause you've that's what you've proven.

It's only a crime if he actually goes out and buys a gun and actually plans out how he's going to do it. Not if he writes that's what he wants to do.
There is a big difference. You can't put him in jail jsut because some people are paranoid.

Ok....so let's allow people to open public terror camps. As long as they're "just training and not blowing shit up", it's alright....isn't it? (I'm willing to bet alot of people will completely miss this connection...)

I agree it's bad to be paranoid, but isn't it also bad when you know (for example) you could have prevented a brutal school shooting because the kid was writing hit lists, writing poems about murdering everyone, etc?

You can't look at situations like this in just one way. You can never predict how people will act. In case A, you might have busted a kid that was just drawing a picture of people shooting eachother, and in case B you may have busted a kid with a sawed off shotgun in his coat.

Cases like this are subjective. I for one value my safety over all (even though I'm not in High School anymore {thank God} ), but you also can't go around busting people for things they haven't done.

You don't restrict their ability to write about it. You restrict their ability to do it. There is no excuse for allowing any child to get their hands on weapons, be it a knife or be it an assault rifle.

This is rather pointless. UncleBob, all your saying is that we're being paranoid...as if it's a bad thing. The state of paranoia > The state of death

http://www.geog.ucsb.edu/~jeff/earthgifs/world.gif

Considering the all too prevalent violence in American schools, I don't think 'poems' like this can afford to be tolerated. For Gods sake how many schools now have to have metal detectors at their gates?
Speech is protected. You can't put people in jail just for saying something. It's unconstitutional.

I dont remember the name of the case, but yes, this case ended with it saying, there are certian things that you can not say, and can be arrested for saying it,and you cannot cry for freedom of speech. Such as yelling fire in a theater or saying i have a bomb in my luggage stoway compartment on a airplane, besides, do you think we really have freedom of speech in the United States anyways?

It's only a crime if he actually goes out and buys a gun and actually plans out how he's going to do it. Not if he writes that's what he wants to do.
There is a big difference. You can't put him in jail jsut because some people are paranoid.

Ok....so let's allow people to open public terror camps. As long as they're "just training and not blowing shit up", it's alright....isn't it? (I'm willing to bet alot of people completely miss this connection...)

I agree it's bad to be paranoid, but isn't it also bad when you know (for example) you could have prevented a brutal school shooting because the kid was writing hit lists, writing poems about murdering everyone, etc?

You can't look at situations like this in just one way. You can never predict how people will act. In case A, you might have busted a kid that was just drawing a picture of people shooting eachother, and in case B you may have busted a kid with a sawed off shotgun in his coat.

Cases like this are subjective. I for one value my safety over all (even though I'm not in High School anymore {thank God} ), but you also can't go around busting people for things they haven't done.

1. There is no connection. There's a clear difference between expression and speech.

2. If you really did care about what he was writing or drawing, you help him get counseling. You would help him heal. You woud not sit there calling him evil, wish him death, and arrest him for life.

ALMOST EVERY KID THAT HAS GONE CRAZY AND SHOT PEOPLE HAS WROTE ABOUT IT BEFORE DOING IT!!

This is rather pointless. UncleBob, all your saying is that we're being paranoid...as if it's a bad thing. The state of paranoia > The state of death
GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!

ALMOST EVERY KID THAT HAS GONE CRAZY AND SHOT PEOPLE HAS WROTE ABOUT IT BEFORE DOING IT!!

So?

Every kid who went crazy and shot people managed to get its greasy little hands on a gun.

1. There is no connection. There's a clear difference between expression and speech.

2. If you really did care about what he was writing or drawing, you help him get counseling. You would help him heal. You woud not sit there calling him evil, wish him death, and arrest him for life.

1. There was a connection, and you missed it (I was right). Is speech not a form of expression? Again, I go back to my example you quoted.

2. Counseling? HA! I went to counseling for deep depression and all I can say is....what a waste of money! Some stupid broad sitting in a chair nodding and writing shit on a pad of paper, telling me shit that dosen't do a damn bit of good.....

This is rather pointless. UncleBob, all your saying is that we're being paranoid...as if it's a bad thing. The state of paranoia > The state of death
GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!
WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE TOPIC AT HAND?

The ability to threaten people is not liberty

ALMOST EVERY KID THAT HAS GONE CRAZY AND SHOT PEOPLE HAS WROTE ABOUT IT BEFORE DOING IT!!
NO THEY HAVEN'T.

It's only a crime if he actually goes out and buys a gun and actually plans out how he's going to do it. Not if he writes that's what he wants to do.
There is a big difference. You can't put him in jail jsut because some people are paranoid.

Ok....so let's allow people to open public terror camps. As long as they're "just training and not blowing shit up", it's alright....isn't it? (I'm willing to bet alot of people will completely miss this connection...)

I agree it's bad to be paranoid, but isn't it also bad when you know (for example) you could have prevented a brutal school shooting because the kid was writing hit lists, writing poems about murdering everyone, etc?

You can't look at situations like this in just one way. You can never predict how people will act. In case A, you might have busted a kid that was just drawing a picture of people shooting eachother, and in case B you may have busted a kid with a sawed off shotgun in his coat.

Cases like this are subjective. I for one value my safety over all (even though I'm not in High School anymore {thank God} ), but you also can't go around busting people for things they haven't done.

If you want to go into exaggerated examples I'll go into one. Once there was a man who decided that certain people were not safe... Not safe from communists... corrupt politicians... jews... homosexuals... People joined under him for safety. For safety... Can you guess who that was? Hitler...

Too extreme an exaggeration?
Guess what? The more safety you want, the more power you give to the government...
Dictatorships are born in times of trouble in times of fear. When people want the ogvernment to take control and protect them.

ALMOST EVERY KID THAT HAS GONE CRAZY AND SHOT PEOPLE HAS WROTE ABOUT IT BEFORE DOING IT!!
NO THEY HAVEN'T.

YES THEY HAVE!!

ALMOST EVERY KID THAT HAS GONE CRAZY AND SHOT PEOPLE HAS WROTE ABOUT IT BEFORE DOING IT!!Ummm. and most people who have written about it have never gone crazy and killed anyone. Got it?

Or would you rather Shakespeare had never written Macbeth? King Lear? Hamlet? Titus Andronicus? Romeo and Juliet?

Violence is an inherent part of art--it always has been and that's not going to change anytime soon, so you'll be better served making sure kids don't have weapons and stop worrying about what the hell they're writing about.

ALMOST EVERY KID THAT HAS GONE CRAZY AND SHOT PEOPLE HAS WROTE ABOUT IT BEFORE DOING IT!!

So?

Every kid who went crazy and shot people managed to get its greasy little hands on a gun.

Both statements are equally true.

But here's some food for thought....

....how come we here in America kill eachother on the levels we do? Music? Movies? Video games? Go oversees and you'll see shit twice as brutal (Japaneese video games, German films and Norwegian death metal). What could it be?

ALMOST EVERY KID THAT HAS GONE CRAZY AND SHOT PEOPLE HAS WROTE ABOUT IT BEFORE DOING IT!!
Give me proof of that. That is just an assumption.

Those stories are about fictional characters killing fictional characters.

This is a kid, writing about killing real people. He may have an intention to do it.

It's only a crime if he actually goes out and buys a gun and actually plans out how he's going to do it. Not if he writes that's what he wants to do.
There is a big difference. You can't put him in jail jsut because some people are paranoid.

Ok....so let's allow people to open public terror camps. As long as they're "just training and not blowing shit up", it's alright....isn't it? (I'm willing to bet alot of people will completely miss this connection...)

I agree it's bad to be paranoid, but isn't it also bad when you know (for example) you could have prevented a brutal school shooting because the kid was writing hit lists, writing poems about murdering everyone, etc?

You can't look at situations like this in just one way. You can never predict how people will act. In case A, you might have busted a kid that was just drawing a picture of people shooting eachother, and in case B you may have busted a kid with a sawed off shotgun in his coat.

Cases like this are subjective. I for one value my safety over all (even though I'm not in High School anymore {thank God} ), but you also can't go around busting people for things they haven't done.

If you want to go into exaggerated examples I'll go into one. Once there was a man who decided that certain people were not safe... Not safe from communists... corrupt politicians... jews... homosexuals... People joined under him for safety. For safety... Can you guess who that was? Hitler...

Too extreme an exaggeration?
Guess what? The more safety you want, the more power you give to the government...
Dictatorships are born in times of trouble in times of fear. When people want the ogvernment to take control and protect them.

Hitler has much to do with what we are talking about. Cause the ones who want to arrest these kids based on what they wrote, are advocating the exact type of society that Hitler was trying to impose on the whole world.
And if America ever became like that, then it is clear that Americans would be enemy number one and it would be just to kill them.

ALMOST EVERY KID THAT HAS GONE CRAZY AND SHOT PEOPLE HAS WROTE ABOUT IT BEFORE DOING IT!!
Give me proof of that. That is just an assumption.

I saw the notebooks of the kids that did Columbine on CNN when it happened.

Those stories are about fictional characters killing fictional characters.

This is a kid, writing about killing real people. He may have an intention to do it.
So write something in third person and you don't mean it?

This is rather pointless. UncleBob, all your saying is that we're being paranoid...as if it's a bad thing. The state of paranoia > The state of death
GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!
WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE TOPIC AT HAND?
Freedom of speech takes precedence over your paranoias.

oh crap, I know where this is going...

If you want to go into exaggerated examples I'll go into one. Once there was a man who decided that certain people were not safe... Not safe from communists... corrupt politicians... jews... homosexuals... People joined under him for safety. For safety... Can you guess who that was? Hitler...

Too extreme an exaggeration?

I don't think that was a relevant example, maybe the wording.....

Guess what? The more safety you want, the more power you give to the government...

True, but I'd rather give the government more power as long as it means my life is safe.

EDIT: Understand I'm playing "Devil's Advocate" here.

This is rather pointless. UncleBob, all your saying is that we're being paranoid...as if it's a bad thing. The state of paranoia > The state of death
GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!
WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE TOPIC AT HAND?
Freedom of speech takes precedence over your paranoias.
that's great...really is

So my freedom of speech gives me the power to call your words pointless for being paranoid against the paranoia.

Those stories are about fictional characters killing fictional characters.

This is a kid, writing about killing real people. He may have an intention to do it.
LMAO

ALMOST EVERY KID THAT HAS GONE CRAZY AND SHOT PEOPLE HAS WROTE ABOUT IT BEFORE DOING IT!!
Give me proof of that. That is just an assumption.

I saw the notebooks of the kids that did Columbine on CNN when it happened.
Well I didn't and unless you can show me a direct link... I can't really consider that valid.

Besides Columbine kids are not the only nonadult murders in history...

Besides Columbine kids are not the only nonadult murders in history...

:shudders:

People are sick......

If you want to go into exaggerated examples I'll go into one. Once there was a man who decided that certain people were not safe... Not safe from communists... corrupt politicians... jews... homosexuals... People joined under him for safety. For safety... Can you guess who that was? Hitler...

Too extreme an exaggeration?

I don't think that was a relevant example, maybe the wording.....

Guess what? The more safety you want, the more power you give to the government...

True, but I'd rather give the government more power as long as it means my life is safe.

EDIT: Understand I'm playing "Devil's Advocate" here.

That is the arguement of those who decided to shrug and say, "Hey lets follow Moussolini... Hitler... Franco... etc."

And the example is as relevant as your terrorist training camps.

Hell, we just need a new and very bloody revolution where everyone who opposes freedom of speech is killed or exiled.
Good old Mr. Jefferson was right on this one.

This is all bullshit.

If a student is found writing stuff about killing his fellow students. He should be checked out. Period.

I'm sick and tired of this goddamn argument.

This is all bullshit.

If a student is found writing stuff about killing his fellow students. He should be checked out. Period.

I'm sick and tired of this goddamn argument.
For once I agree with you. People need to check on him and make sure he's ok.

That is the arguement of those who decided to shrug and say, "Hey lets follow Moussolini... Hitler... Franco... etc."

:lol:

And the example is as relevant as your terrorist training camps.

But we're not talking about people rallying to a man that commited genocide, so I really didn't see how that fit.

BUT ANYWAYS.....

That is the arguement of those who decided to shrug and say, "Hey lets follow Moussolini... Hitler... Franco... etc."

:lol:

And the example is as relevant as your terrorist training camps.

But we're not talking about people rallying to a man that commited genocide, so I really didn't see how that fit.

BUT ANYWAYS.....
People followed Hitler cause they were paranoid.

This is all bullshit.

If a student is found writing stuff about killing his fellow students. He should be checked out. Period.

I'm sick and tired of this goddamn argument.

If people like you succeed at curtailing free speech rights... You won't be able to say bullshit and goddamn pretty soon...

This is all bullshit.

If a student is found writing stuff about killing his fellow students. He should be checked out. Period.

I'm sick and tired of this goddamn argument.
For once I agree with you. People need to check on him and make sure he's ok.

Agreed. He should at least have someone to talk to about his problems.

I'm losing my belief that UncleBob believes what he's saying. He sounds like my little brother...repetative...

And the example is as relevant as your terrorist training camps.

But we're not talking about people rallying to a man that commited genocide, so I really didn't see how that fit.

BUT ANYWAYS.....
And by your reference to terrorist camps you are implying and assuming that whoever writes that means to do it.

People followed Hitler cause they were paranoid.

Hitler is not the point though.

I took your statement about how "if someone says something, that dosen't mean they'll do it". I replied saying "so if terrorists open a camp and {just} train people, that's fine".

THAT'S what I was trying to say. I don't know where Hitler fits into that.....

If people like you succeed at curtailing free speech rights... You won't be able to say bullshit and goddamn pretty soon...
In a school, particularly an Elementary one, you'd probably be reprimanded somewhat for saying that already.

And by your reference to terrorist camps you are implying and assuming that whoever writes that means to do it.

As I stated in that same quote a page back, cases like this are subjective.

People followed Hitler cause they were paranoid.

Hitler is not the point though.

I took your statement about how "if someone says something, that dosen't mean they'll do it". I replied saying "so if terrorists open a camp and {just} train people, that's fine".

THAT'S what I was trying to say. I don't know where Hitler fits into that.....

However, just think about it... How did Hitler first rise to power? Tell me that.... If you can tell me that you can realize how Hitler ties into all of this.

it does have to do with government. maybe he should get some counseling you know talk about it that and his poem can and may have been helping him out I write some dark stuff and used to in class all sorts of stuff my teachers didn't like not directly at specific people but hey I was expressing myself and I say we let the kid alone he's done some time and hopefully got it all off his chest and some help now lets drop it

I'm losing my belief that UncleBob believes what he's saying. He sounds like my little brother...repetative...Freedom of speech takes precedence over your wish to not be offended which, I might add, is not, and has never been a right.

If people like you succeed at curtailing free speech rights... You won't be able to say bullshit and goddamn pretty soon...
In a school, particularly an Elementary one, you'd probably be reprimanded somewhat for saying that already.
But what about arrested? For indecent verbal intercourse? That'll be the future... if people's paranoia continues to grow.

However, just think about it... How did Hitler first rise to power? Tell me that.... If you can tell me that you can realize how Hitler ties into all of this.

Yes yes I know, but didn't Hitler say bad shit about the Jews before he killed them? (By that I don't mean he personally killed them.)

If people like you succeed at curtailing free speech rights... You won't be able to say bullshit and goddamn pretty soon...
In a school, particularly an Elementary one, you'd probably be reprimanded somewhat for saying that already.
In elementary school, kids aren't capable of rational thought.

If people like you succeed at curtailing free speech rights... You won't be able to say bullshit and goddamn pretty soon...
In a school, particularly an Elementary one, you'd probably be reprimanded somewhat for saying that already.
But what about arrested? For indecent verbal intercourse? That'll be the future... if people's paranoia continues to grow.'
The ol' slippery slope. Just like if we make ID checks mandatory at gun shows, soon guns will be banned, and if we lower taxes, soon all of our government programs will be gone.

I'm losing my belief that UncleBob believes what he's saying. He sounds like my little brother...repetative...Freedom of speech takes precedence over your wish to not be offended which, I might add, is not, and has never been a right.
Actually, the freedom of speech takes priority over your wish not to hear my wish. Because, as a free speaker, I'm entitled to let anyone and everyone hear what I have to say.


Whatever, peace out. And don't be an idiotic murderous fool like this 15 yr old. (referring to the kid with that deadly poem)

But what about arrested? For indecent verbal intercourse?

In 11th grade I was almost arrested for telling a girl that was annoying me to "suck my dick". What were the charges? Soliciting sex. There's cops for you. (True story)

If people like you succeed at curtailing free speech rights... You won't be able to say bullshit and goddamn pretty soon...
In a school, particularly an Elementary one, you'd probably be reprimanded somewhat for saying that already.
But what about arrested? For indecent verbal intercourse? That'll be the future... if people's paranoia continues to grow.
Heh, remember the 5 girl that was arrested and spent 5 days in jail for saying "hell".

However, just think about it... How did Hitler first rise to power? Tell me that.... If you can tell me that you can realize how Hitler ties into all of this.

Yes yes I know, but didn't Hitler say bad shit about the Jews before he killed them? (By that I don't mean he personally killed them.)

Jews are not the point. That is a possible future... Because too much control is given to a central government... The central government can manipulate information too well too make the public believe anythoing it wishes...

That is our future if we begin to curtail freedom of speech rights.

Political speech does not include talking about killing people.
THis is useless. what the hell do you know about what political speech covers. Nothing. Absolutely nothing cause you've that's what you've proven.You're not even worth arguing with because it's obvious that you don't have the maturity level to carry on a decent debate. You just repeat yourself over and over, and you get angry when someone disagrees. with you. This is one of the reasons I try to stay away from forums; too many little kids.

Jews are not the point.

But the massacre of the Jews are relevant to Hitler, are they not? :wink:


That is a possible future... Because too much control is given to a central government...
Agreed.


The central government can manipulate information too well too make the public believe anythoing it wishes...

Agreed.

That is our future if we begin to curtail freedom of speech rights.

Who knows.

I'm losing my belief that UncleBob believes what he's saying. He sounds like my little brother...repetative...Freedom of speech takes precedence over your wish to not be offended which, I might add, is not, and has never been a right.
Actually, the freedom of speech takes priority over your wish not to hear my wish. Because, as a free speaker, I'm entitled to let anyone and everyone hear what I have to say.


Whatever, peace out. And don't be an idiotic murderous fool like this 15 yr old. (referring to the kid with that deadly poem)
deadly poem? Now we have poems going around killing people?
What will people think of next?

Political speech does not include talking about killing people.
THis is useless. what the hell do you know about what political speech covers. Nothing. Absolutely nothing cause you've that's what you've proven.You're not even worth arguing with because it's obvious that you don't have the maturity level to carry on a decent debate. You just repeat yourself over and over, and you get angry when someone disagrees. with you. This is one of the reasons I try to stay away from forums; too many little kids.
Then again you don't even bother to respond to any of my arguements... Is it because you have no response? Or is it that you prefer to spar with someone you consider to be a little kid? Or am I a little kid too?

Political speech does not include talking about killing people.
THis is useless. what the hell do you know about what political speech covers. Nothing. Absolutely nothing cause you've that's what you've proven.You're not even worth arguing with because it's obvious that you don't have the maturity level to carry on a decent debate. You just repeat yourself over and over, and you get angry when someone disagrees. with you. This is one of the reasons I try to stay away from forums; too many little kids.
NO. Its cause you really don't have a clue what you are talking about.
Or may be its cause you have bad case of cognitive dessonance.
The only valid arguments you accept are the ones that fit your preconcieved, ill informed point of view.

Political speech does not include talking about killing people.
THis is useless. what the hell do you know about what political speech covers. Nothing. Absolutely nothing cause you've that's what you've proven.You're not even worth arguing with because it's obvious that you don't have the maturity level to carry on a decent debate. You just repeat yourself over and over, and you get angry when someone disagrees. with you. This is one of the reasons I try to stay away from forums; too many little kids.
Then again you don't even bother to respond to any of my arguements... Is it because you have no response? Or is it that you prefer to spar with someone you consider to be a little kid? Or am I a little kid too?
Or it could be that he is a little kid.

Or am I a little kid too?

OMGZ 1 kn3w 1t uR 4 k1d!!!1111

I'm missing something very important here. I haven't seen the actual poem in its entirety yet. Did any one think that was relevant? Did the media even release it? The quotes themselves sound like they were taken out of context. Can some one post the poem itself so that we may have a real informed discussion?

Political speech does not include talking about killing people.
THis is useless. what the hell do you know about what political speech covers. Nothing. Absolutely nothing cause you've that's what you've proven.You're not even worth arguing with because it's obvious that you don't have the maturity level to carry on a decent debate. You just repeat yourself over and over, and you get angry when someone disagrees. with you. This is one of the reasons I try to stay away from forums; too many little kids.
Then again you don't even bother to respond to any of my arguements... Is it because you have no response? Or is it that you prefer to spar with someone you consider to be a little kid? Or am I a little kid too?I can't respond to every post in a thread, so back the fuck off. And I stated that I DON'T want to argue with him because he acts like a little kid. So there goes your attempted jab down the toilet.

Political speech does not include talking about killing people.
THis is useless. what the hell do you know about what political speech covers. Nothing. Absolutely nothing cause you've that's what you've proven.You're not even worth arguing with because it's obvious that you don't have the maturity level to carry on a decent debate. You just repeat yourself over and over, and you get angry when someone disagrees. with you. This is one of the reasons I try to stay away from forums; too many little kids.
Then again you don't even bother to respond to any of my arguements... Is it because you have no response? Or is it that you prefer to spar with someone you consider to be a little kid? Or am I a little kid too?I can't respond to every post in a thread, so back the f--- off. And I stated that I DON'T want to argue with him because he acts like a little kid. So there goes your attempted jab down the toilet.
Excuse me.But unliek you, I happen to know what I am talking about.
You talk about infringing on people's rights as if they were yours to give and take away.
What degree do you have? Makeshitupomics?
What is your experience? None?
You are in no position to be putting anyone in jail just for exercising their free speech rights.
But then you made all too clear that those who seek to preserve the freedoms guaranteed by the constitution are "children".
Come back when you know what the hell you are talking about.

Anyone who thinks free speech is truly free in America is ignorant, I'm sorry to say.

I can be thrown in jail for saying "Bush should die", how in the world does that mean I have the right to free speech?

He put this girl on the list, she was scared and she cried. I wasn't scared, but I dislike people threatening my life.
OF course she was scared and she cried. she was kid. She wasn't mature enough to understand the difference between expression and actually plotting to kill people.

There's healthier ways to express your emotions than death threats.

If there's one thing I've learned counseling children, it's that you should NEVER disregard the strength or the seriousness of their feelings because of their age. If you think that the kid writing death threats was just whimsically expressing himself, you've got another thing coming. Those poems don't come out of left field, they express emotions he feels, and you should never doubt that he is ready to carry them out simply because he is young. The fact that you do trumpets your ignorance for all to see.
You have any proof of that?

(sorry for the quintuple post by the way...)

i've had cases with some very violent children. i'm not saying any more than that.

He put this girl on the list, she was scared and she cried. I wasn't scared, but I dislike people threatening my life.
OF course she was scared and she cried. she was kid. She wasn't mature enough to understand the difference between expression and actually plotting to kill people.

There's healthier ways to express your emotions than death threats.

If there's one thing I've learned counseling children, it's that you should NEVER disregard the strength or the seriousness of their feelings because of their age. If you think that the kid writing death threats was just whimsically expressing himself, you've got another thing coming. Those poems don't come out of left field, they express emotions he feels, and you should never doubt that he is ready to carry them out simply because he is young. The fact that you do trumpets your ignorance for all to see.
You have any proof of that?

(sorry for the quintuple post by the way...)

i've had cases with some very violent children. i'm not saying any more than that.school culture promotes violence when combined with the forced drugging of kids with mind control drugs