NationStates Jolt Archive

I often see people on this site who live outside the US write things like 'why does the US think it is the center of the world?'. I find it very peculiar that those same people seem to almost always display a single-minded obsession with the US. Has anyone else noticed this? Am I just full of shit? I ask again, who is it that really thinks the US is the center of the world?

I'm American, I don't.

I most certainly don't; I'm American.

we're not the center of it, whe just in the middle of everything.

we're not the center of it, whe just in the middle of everything.

THAT'S it!

I was wondering how to explain it

It kind of seems like it but I just try to ignore it.

the center is the center of the world

the center of the world? please....













The center of the whole fuck ing UNIVERSE!!!!!

Well it's like this Americans read/listen/watch news about America. Thus they know American news, thus they talk about America.

The US is indeed the world hegemon.

The actual center of the world is Brooklyn.
Go Cyclones!

The US is indeed the world hegemon.

The actual center of the world is Brooklyn.
Go Cyclones!

Cyclones?

Bah. Provincials :lol:
The best damned baseball team in Brooklyn. Their stadium is a 5 minute walk from my appartment. And I don't even like baseball!

Anyway like I said Brooklyn is the center of the world.

Oh, piff! Ask anyone from Southern Ontario. Toronto is the centre of the universe!

Oh, piff! Ask anyone from Southern Ontario. Toronto is the centre of the universe!

Ianna, I heard that Toronto is clear of SARS. Any breakouts lately?

Oh, piff! Ask anyone from Southern Ontario. Toronto is the centre of the universe!
The US is the center of the world and just above it is God's country. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh, piff! Ask anyone from Southern Ontario. Toronto is the centre of the universe!That's only because they've never been to Brooklyn.

we're not the center of it, whe just in the middle of everything.

Mostly because the USA themselves put themselves in the center of every thing , well as long as it's in their self interest to do so.

American foreign policy sucks!

we're not the center of it, whe just in the middle of everything.
American foreign policy sucks!Here here! Not like Brooklyn's foreign policy.

I think that this is a Cyclone kind of thing...

America is not the centre of the world and never will be.While it may at one time have been the economic and social centre for a brief time,it is slowly being superceded by the emerging powers of Russia,India and China and in the Asia-Pacific,other powers are rising up that serve as the economic and military centres of power for their regions,providing a check to US hegemony.

In Europe,the formation of the European Union over the long term displaces the USA as the main power broker within Europe,though there is still US influence in Eastern European countries.This influnce will slowly recede over time.

In my home region of South East Asia,the USA has the alignment of my country Singapore which is the dominant regional power,but will eventually switch to China and India as engagement and burgeoning socioeconomic and cultural ties increasingly bind them to us as well as to our neighbours Indonesia and Australia.

Singapore keeps a firm check on US advances by being an unofficial ally and giving them advice.We serve as an intermediary and advisor,keeping the US influence mostly out of our region and moderating the American voice.We moderate the more exremist Muslim elements in neighbouring countries by forming a target for them,posturing as the "Israel of the East" and showing our resolve through superior military power,more so in the naval and aviation arenas,where we possess the power to take punitive actions against Vietnam at this juncture,as Israel did against Iraq when it bombed the Iraqi Osirac nukclear reactor in the 1980's.

We also control the economy of our neighbour Malaysia to a very large extent.It is the most modern and progressive Muslim nation in the world and is kept that way by their leaders,while fundamentalist Muslims within the country who wish to turn it into an Islamic Republic are kept in check by the knowledge that a sledgehammer and dagger is at their throats,by the leaders of Malaysia,and by Singapore,whose survival is dependent on a moderate muslim Malaysia.

Indonesia to the south relies on the USA heavily and is under heavy US influnce,though less so.A country of 220 million and growing,they are the largest Muslim nation in the world and their government officially supports the USA.The extremist Muslim elements within the country,those rational enough to understand the balance of power in the region,have realised that they are 3 different forces ready to pounce on them should they seek to change the status quo; the Indonesian Army,which acts like the Turkish army in ensuring the secular nature of the nation,Singapore which has the capability to project air and sea power into their territories,and Australia,a major US ally which also has similar capability,though lacking in the firepower and manpower of the Singapore military.The greatest factor is the Indonesian army,which enjoys tacit support with the US political structure,due to the necessary reality that keeping down extremism in the largest Muslim nation of the world is necessary and require brutality and ruthlesness,something which the Indonesian military is more than willing to do,as testament to the numerous but necessary atrocities to cleanse rebel Muslim influence in recent times,as seen in Aceh.

In this regard the US adopts a realistic policy by supporting it,as well as the Singapore government,whose support is low-profile but quite visible.The US may shun the more brutal aspects of this as well as the human rights violations,though in South East Asia,people are realistic and more practical than the American political culture and take a 'live and let live' attitude to this.

Note:Malaysia and Singapore possess a law called ISA(Internal Security Act)which grants the government great power in dealing with criminals,organised crime groups and terrorists.It allows for the preventive and indefinite detention of one suspected of threatening national security and welfare.This essentially means detention without trial,similar to what the US military does at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

This is enforced under the Internal Security Department of the police forces of the countries listed,and the detainee is detained in reinforced locations.In Malaysia,aggressive actions are taken,with use of physical torture and beatings during interrogation(aggressive interviews)to coerce and 'persuade' the detainee to cooperate.

Singapore takes a subtler approach that leaves no physical evidence on he bodies of the detainee during interrogation.Psychological torture is used on the detainees to break their will and erode mental resistance.Physical torture is limited to indirect actions,minor beatings that do not draw blood such as slaps and other inventive methods used by Israeli's as well as 'air-con' treatment and 'religious counseling',which is essentially brainwashing and persuasion.

In more severe cases,military interrogators take over with greater emphasis on physical force,with regular checkups by doctors to ensure survival of the detainee who is being interviewed by the military interrogators.Use of lead pipes and other implements such as electricity and daggers as well as use of attack dogs are also used,resulting in eventual compliance by the detainee,who is then returned to society which will be safe from the actions of the terrorist/criminal who will be restricted in movement and monitored to ensure that information is not leaked.

Leaks of information can result in further aggressive interviews with military interrogators in both Malaysia and Singapore.In Indonesia,they are simply interviews with use of torture and then exterminated.

America is not the centre of the world and never will be.While it may at one time have been the economic and social centre for a brief time,it is slowly being superceded by the emerging powers of Russia,India and China and in the Asia-Pacific,other powers are rising up that serve as the economic and military centres of power for their regions,providing a check to US hegemony.

In Europe,the formation of the European Union over the long term displaces the USA as the main power broker within Europe,though there is still US influence in Eastern European countries.This influnce will slowly recede over time.

In my home region of South East Asia,the USA has the alignment of my country Singapore which is the dominant regional power,but will eventually switch to China and India as engagement and burgeoning socioeconomic and cultural ties increasingly bind them to us as well as to our neighbours Indonesia and Australia.

Singapore keeps a firm check on US advances by being an unofficial ally and giving them advice.We serve as an intermediary and advisor,keeping the US influence mostly out of our region and moderating the American voice.We moderate the more exremist Muslim elements in neighbouring countries by forming a target for them,posturing as the "Israel of the East" and showing our resolve through superior military power,more so in the naval and aviation arenas,where we possess the power to take punitive actions against Vietnam at this juncture,as Israel did against Iraq when it bombed the Iraqi Osirac nukclear reactor in the 1980's.

We also control the economy of our neighbour Malaysia to a very large extent.It is the most modern and progressive Muslim nation in the world and is kept that way by their leaders,while fundamentalist Muslims within the country who wish to turn it into an Islamic Republic are kept in check by the knowledge that a sledgehammer and dagger is at their throats,by the leaders of Malaysia,and by Singapore,whose survival is dependent on a moderate muslim Malaysia.

Indonesia to the south relies on the USA heavily and is under heavy US influnce,though less so.A country of 220 million and growing,they are the largest Muslim nation in the world and their government officially supports the USA.The extremist Muslim elements within the country,those rational enough to understand the balance of power in the region,have realised that they are 3 different forces ready to pounce on them should they seek to change the status quo; the Indonesian Army,which acts like the Turkish army in ensuring the secular nature of the nation,Singapore which has the capability to project air and sea power into their territories,and Australia,a major US ally which also has similar capability,though lacking in the firepower and manpower of the Singapore military.The greatest factor is the Indonesian army,which enjoys tacit support with the US political structure,due to the necessary reality that keeping down extremism in the largest Muslim nation of the world is necessary and require brutality and ruthlesness,something which the Indonesian military is more than willing to do,as testament to the numerous but necessary atrocities to cleanse rebel Muslim influence in recent times,as seen in Aceh.

In this regard the US adopts a realistic policy by supporting it,as well as the Singapore government,whose support is low-profile but quite visible.The US may shun the more brutal aspects of this as well as the human rights violations,though in South East Asia,people are realistic and more practical than the American political culture and take a 'live and let live' attitude to this.

Note:Malaysia and Singapore possess a law called ISA(Internal Security Act)which grants the government great power in dealing with criminals,organised crime groups and terrorists.It allows for the preventive and indefinite detention of one suspected of threatening national security and welfare.This essentially means detention without trial,similar to what the US military does at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

This is enforced under the Internal Security Department of the police forces of the countries listed,and the detainee is detained in reinforced locations.In Malaysia,aggressive actions are taken,with use of physical torture and beatings during interrogation(aggressive interviews)to coerce and 'persuade' the detainee to cooperate.

Singapore takes a subtler approach that leaves no physical evidence on he bodies of the detainee during interrogation.Psychological torture is used on the detainees to break their will and erode mental resistance.Physical torture is limited to indirect actions,minor beatings that do not draw blood such as slaps and other inventive methods used by Israeli's as well as 'air-con' treatment and 'religious counseling',which is essentially brainwashing and persuasion.

In more severe cases,military interrogators take over with greater emphasis on physical force,with regular checkups by doctors to ensure survival of the detainee who is being interviewed by the military interrogators.Use of lead pipes and other implements such as electricity and daggers as well as use of attack dogs are also used,resulting in eventual compliance by the detainee,who is then returned to society which will be safe from the actions of the terrorist/criminal who will be restricted in movement and monitored to ensure that information is not leaked.

Leaks of information can result in further aggressive interviews with military interrogators in both Malaysia and Singapore.In Indonesia,they are simply interviews with use of torture and then exterminated.Very nice post. But, did you notice all of the time that you tried to explain that the US is not the center of the world that you explained everything, in retlation to, contrasted by, or relative to the US?

jesus tapdancing christ...
This is because he is TALKING ABOUT THE US!

jesus tapdancing christ...
This is because he is TALKING ABOUT THE US!

Probably using a computer that uses US technology, with software developed by an American company, and sent through a server designed by an American company...

jesus tapdancing christ...
This is because he is TALKING ABOUT THE US!Yes, but the point of the original post is that people who make statements like 'the US is not the center of the world' and ask questions like 'Why do Americans think that the US is the center of the world?' seem to always show an obsession with the US and compare everything to the US which completely invalidates thier postion.

Probably using a computer that uses US technology, with software developed by an American company, and sent through a server designed by an American company...

Ah, that might explain the 'quality' of that same computer, software and server :lol:

No the U.S. is not the center of the world despite the best efforts of the world to define it to be. that is because they need a single place to put the blame for everything that is wrong in their respective nations.

The U.S. acts in it's own interests just as other nation do. We have not been at it as long as most European nations so it may not be done with the same history of screwing things up. (however many will say that the U.S. is making an effort in that direction)

And Steph... U.S. foreign policy may suck but at least it has one that amounts to something beyond its own borders unlike our more northern neighbor. Easy to judge others when you have no responsibility beyond following someone elses lead when it suits.

As an American I would really like to see a more isolationist stance but that would not work well in the current trend of globalization.

No the U.S. is not the center of the world, we are not geared towards that role. However, the U.S. is the center of 'our' world just as your respective nation is the center of your world. Don't judge the U.S. with a meter stick...here we use a yard stick.

Probably using a computer that uses US technology, with software developed by an American company, and sent through a server designed by an American company...

Ah, that might explain the 'quality' of that same computer, software and server :lol:

Hey, its probably Microsoft. Sigh.

America is not the centre of the world and never will be.While it may at one time have been the economic and social centre for a brief time,it is slowly being superceded by the emerging powers of Russia,India and China and in the Asia-Pacific,other powers are rising up that serve as the economic and military centres of power for their regions,providing a check to US hegemony...


Loooong post. Reminds me of someone...Oh yeah! Me. ;)

An interesting take on things. I don't have my usually hour to post a reply so I'll focus on keeping this short.

I find that the US has become the Nexus for world power at this point in history. This disparity of power has been misinterpreted as hegenomy; this center location in world affairs has spilled over into a conceit born of power beyond what others currently enjoy. Eventually time will catch up with the US and its Hegenomy will turn back into more reasonable level of world power. I call this a hegenomy of proper timing.

The major European powers had been diminished since WW2, and the cold war diminished the So-bloc powers. China is still recovering from the 20th century's ravages and the Asian Tiger economies were shaken after the currency crisis and many are in serious need of restructuring (though not, from what I have seen, Singapore). Those factors and more have left the US 'last man standing' in world affairs; the other nations of the world must now spend years recovering whilst all the while listening to the US brag and boast about how cool it is.

Still, the US enjoys unrivialed power at present, and thus COULD be a force for considerable good in the world. It could also lengthen significantly its duration of time in the sun if it adopted stances that kept world focus off reducing the US and its power.

One possible example would be focusing its power on stewarding the third world nations to become "2nd world" nations as it were; this has the benifits of creating long-term allies out of many of the 3rd world parties, reducing the relitive power gap between those nations and current minor powers that don't support the US and maintaining a positive image within the world view. By shifting political focus on helping such nations, the US could pressure its allies into favorable trade deals with itself as an middleman or arbiter of economic support.

However, current political discourse within the US indicates that such opportunities will likely be missed. The US is currently the center of world power; but it remains to be seen if we'll earn the right to keep that status.

learn another language.

learn another language.

No!

learn another language.Why? Are you having trouble understanding this one?

Show humility. All of our nations are only on the surface of the world, not in the center of it.

The Chinese once thought themselves center of the world; so did the Persian, Romans, English, French, and so forth.

Power does not last forever; the true test is what the US will leave after them.

Well it's like this Americans read/listen/watch news about America. Thus they know American news, thus they talk about America.

learning another language may lead you to know something about the world.

And Steph... U.S. foreign policy may suck but at least it has one that amounts to something beyond its own borders unlike our more northern neighbor. Easy to judge others when you have no responsibility beyond following someone elses lead when it suits.

Yes, we don't tend to butt our noses in where they aren't wanted, funny how that works, might explain why no one hates us.. ;)

learning another language may lead you to know something about the world.No, it would lead me to know another language. I took some French classes in highschool, I can't remeber much of it and have little or no interest in France.

The centre of the "world" is somewhere in the south Atlantic by the West African coast, if you count using where the Equator intersects the Greenwich Meridian.

The centre of the "Earth" is of course, deep down under. 8)

learning another language may lead you to know something about the world.No, it would lead me to know another language. I took some French classes in highschool, I can't remeber much of it and have little or no interest in France.knowing how to say 'merci beaucoup' does not mean you talk french.

we're not the center of it, whe just in the middle of everything.

I'm English.
The world has no middle because ity a globe.

learning another language may lead you to know something about the world.No, it would lead me to know another language. I took some French classes in highschool, I can't remeber much of it and have little or no interest in France.knowing how to say 'merci beaucoup' does not mean you talk french.I didn't mean to imply that learning a small bit of another language means that one can speak that language. I don't see your point about learning another language teach anyone anything about the world.

In Europe,the formation of the European Union over the long term displaces the USA as the main power broker within Europe,though there is still US influence in Eastern European countries.This influnce will slowly recede over time.


Damn right! At the end of the last century the EU's economy overtook the USA in size, and with its most recent expansion it is now on parity with the US's much looser economic bloc of NAFTA. Deals between Brussels and other regional blocs such as Asean and the CIS continue to increase its economic influence around the world, and a forth-coming deal with Mercosur in Latin America will create the largest free-trade area in the world - competing on America's hometurf. Although hobbled by Europe's relative poverty per capita and a poor rate of growth in the Franco-German heartland, the economies of Eastern Europe continue to grow rapidly and Britain surges ahead. A good proportion of the world's top companies are located in the area and have expanded into world and American markets.

With economic power comes influence - despite their foreign policy differences in the past Britain and France have two of five permanent seats on the UNSC; they plus Germany and Italy are in the G7/G8; all members of NATO but the US and Canada are either members of the EU or applicants; and even the Foreign Offices of the smaller nations prove influential in the world through aid, mediation and peacekeeping duties. If Europe can build on this soft power, and co-operate more on foreign policy and defence issues, it is possible that they will be able to supplant the US as the leading world power - or at least establish themselves as an equal [but friendly] rival.

In Europe,the formation of the European Union over the long term displaces the USA as the main power broker within Europe,though there is still US influence in Eastern European countries.This influnce will slowly recede over time.


Damn right! At the end of the last century the EU's economy overtook the USA in size, and with its most recent expansion it is now on parity with the US's much looser economic bloc of NAFTA. Deals between Brussels and other regional blocs such as Asean and the CIS continue to increase its economic influence around the world, and a forth-coming deal with Mercosur in Latin America will create the largest free-trade area in the world - competing on America's hometurf. Although hobbled by Europe's relative poverty per capita and a poor rate of growth in the Franco-German heartland, the economies of Eastern Europe continue to grow rapidly and Britain surges ahead. A good proportion of the world's top companies are located in the area and have expanded into world and American markets.

With economic power comes influence - despite their foreign policy differences in the past Britain and France have two of five permanent seats on the UNSC; they plus Germany and Italy are in the G7/G8; all members of NATO but the US and Canada are either members of the EU or applicants; and even the Foreign Offices of the smaller nations prove influential in the world through aid, mediation and peacekeeping duties. If Europe can build on this soft power, and co-operate more on foreign policy and defence issues, it is possible that they will be able to supplant the US as the leading world power - or at least establish themselves as an equal [but friendly] rival.All of that is true, but it all hinges on the EU being able to agree and co-exist. When you tie the economies of nations together so tightly you will gain from the arrangement but also if one suffers setbacks all do, particularly where the strength of currendy is involved. If the Eu is not very carefully managed this could lead to resentment and division from within. The Eu holds great promise but it is also a risk.

America is not the centre of the world and never will be.While it may at one time have been the economic and social centre for a brief time,it is slowly being superceded by the emerging powers of Russia,India and China and in the Asia-Pacific,other powers are rising up that serve as the economic and military centres of power for their regions,providing a check to US hegemony...


Loooong post. Reminds me of someone...Oh yeah! Me. ;)

An interesting take on things. I don't have my usually hour to post a reply so I'll focus on keeping this short.

I find that the US has become the Nexus for world power at this point in history. This disparity of power has been misinterpreted as hegenomy; this center location in world affairs has spilled over into a conceit born of power beyond what others currently enjoy. Eventually time will catch up with the US and its Hegenomy will turn back into more reasonable level of world power. I call this a hegenomy of proper timing.

The major European powers had been diminished since WW2, and the cold war diminished the So-bloc powers. China is still recovering from the 20th century's ravages and the Asian Tiger economies were shaken after the currency crisis and many are in serious need of restructuring (though not, from what I have seen, Singapore). Those factors and more have left the US 'last man standing' in world affairs; the other nations of the world must now spend years recovering whilst all the while listening to the US brag and boast about how cool it is.

Still, the US enjoys unrivialed power at present, and thus COULD be a force for considerable good in the world. It could also lengthen significantly its duration of time in the sun if it adopted stances that kept world focus off reducing the US and its power.

One possible example would be focusing its power on stewarding the third world nations to become "2nd world" nations as it were; this has the benifits of creating long-term allies out of many of the 3rd world parties, reducing the relitive power gap between those nations and current minor powers that don't support the US and maintaining a positive image within the world view. By shifting political focus on helping such nations, the US could pressure its allies into favorable trade deals with itself as an middleman or arbiter of economic support.

However, current political discourse within the US indicates that such opportunities will likely be missed. The US is currently the center of world power; but it remains to be seen if we'll earn the right to keep that status.

Good point Niccolo.No country is the "centre" of the world.You are right in saying that the USA is currently the 'nexus' of power in the political and military arena of the world.The US could be a force for good,but it isn't right now.

However,I take the long-term view in saying that the subjective histories of many countries are quite negative towards the USA.Take for example,Vietnam.In their history books,well,the USA is less than......benign in their world view.Still,they are practical people and are courting US investment as well as Singaporean support and investment to counter China's rising influence,as well as making friends with China,a double-pronged approach.

The histories of many countries will take a dim view of US actions during this period of time,no doubt the "war of Terror" which affected so many.Americans must probably know by now that most people are ardently anti-american,especially after that trifling little incident on 11-9-2001(only 3000+ people were lost.for a country of 300 million,that is a little loss)It was an incident with global repercussions that will continue to echo for as long as Islamic extremists exist.

Simply,the USA wields TOO MUCH influence and power,and under the incmpetence of the current administration,as well as the irresponsible hands of a country and government that places its own interests above all others without a thought to others,trampling over other countries,even its own allies(refer to tariffs on British steel,despite British support of America;the former American support for a brutal military dictatorship in Taiwan;support for China,a commuinst dictatorship that is slowly opening up vs a now democratic Taiwan that seeks independence;Nicaraguan 'contras';unilateral withdrawal from ABM treay to pursue TMD;lack of support for critical Kyoto Protocol due to perceived restrictions on american industries,from the worlds largest air polluter and consumer of oil;ignorance of Rwandan massacres and Ethiopian problems,even though the USA's duty as a permanent member of the UN Security Council is to intervene in such conflicts;etc.)

At this juncture in history,the USA wields enough power to be hegemonic in nature without meaning to be due to the character of its political society and perhaps some of the qualities of its populace,though I am unsure in this assertion,I am probably wrong.This imbalance of world power,in which the US is currently the nexus,is slowly being regulated and rebalanced by a Russia rising like a phoenix from the ashes,a waking a China and a waking India,the formation of the EU and the 'Asian Tigers" of Singapore,Indonesia,Thailand and Malaysia as they slowly make their way to economic recovery.

With the rise of these regional powers and major powers,the US will be less inclined to be so...overzealous and unilateral in enforcing its 'national interests' at the expense of others.These concentrations of power will help to iron out the tablecloth of power that is pulled too much to the USA's side of the table.

Perhaps the main problem that most people have with the USA is that it pursues its own national interests and foreign policy at the expense of other nations and peoples,while most countries do not similarly do so.It is this that for me is my primary dislike of American foreign policy.

Nevertheless,the USA has been a force for good on the whole,at least in South East Asia,as with their fighting the communists in Vietnam helped to delay the communists long enough so that other countries could build up the strength to deter and destroy communist elements in their territories.It has also helped to deter some of the increasingly hegemonic behaviour of China in the South China Sea.It has acted as a stabilising element in our region in the past and has benefited South East Asia greatly,but has not done so in other areas such as the Middle East,Africa,Central America and South America. It has benefited mostly East Asia,South East Asia and Europe.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding what you said about the restructuring and stuff about the "Asian Tigers" and China recovering from the ravages of the 20th century,true enough.However,both China and India present a *formidable* threat to American influence and power in the Asia-Pacific.They will eventually displace America as the major powers of the Asia-Pacific,or perhaps match it and balance it.

South East Asia as a whole has an undercurrent of tension between all the countries,our alliance under ASEAN(Association of South East Asian Nations)held together by a fear of the rising power of hegemonic China,which is balanced only by the presence of current US military carrier groups in the South Pacific and South China Sea as well as economic links,along with Indian influence slowly increasing in ASEAN in the form of economic,cultural and military links.

Singapore as the premier dominant regional power militarily and economically despite its size(we are the "Israel of the East")maintains a policy of strategic engagement with India,China,Russia and the USA,to balance out the influence of others and negate Chinese and American hegemony within the region.The last time there was an imbalance of power,the Vietnam War happened,in which America,the USSR and China used it to fight it out.Same thing happened in South Asia in 1979 with the invasion of Afghanistan.The current situation is different of course.


Irrelevant but interesting fact:

Militarily,we balance out Malaysia and Indonesia combined,and possibly Thailand as well.To see how amazing that is,here is a comparison of population;Malaysia has 23 million people.Indonesia has 220 million people.Thailand has a population of 30 million over.Singapore has a population of 4 million people.So we don't get our reputation for nothing.You can interpret this as arrogance and overbearing pride in my country if u want.Fine by me.

I didn't mean to imply that learning a small bit of another language means that one can speak that language. I don't see your point about learning another language teach anyone anything about the world.Well if you spoke another language it wouldn't make a difference when following news in english or in the other language for instance. You wouldn't think the rest of the world sees the US as the center of the universe because those you see here are only those who talk english and therefore those who have interest in the english speaking world. And you would not be subject to intense propaganda. Communication is key to knowing the world. With only one language your communication is limited to like-minded people. You said you have no interest in France but if you talked french you would surf the web in french as well as in english and you would know better things related to France.

I often see people on this site who live outside the US write things like 'why does the US think it is the center of the world?'. I find it very peculiar that those same people seem to almost always display a single-minded obsession with the US. Has anyone else noticed this? Am I just full of shit? I ask again, who is it that really thinks the US is the center of the world?

I definately never look at it like this. I have been around the world and love to learn about new cultures.

Now having said that, a friend of mine pointed something out not too long ago.

The average size of a Country in Europe is equal to the average size of a State in the US. Where it is easy for someone in Germany to jump on a train and go visit France, Switzerland, Italy, or any other country, the geographical boundries of the United States allow us only two countries to visit. Sure you can hop on a plane and visit Europe. But the cost of the flight just getting to New York or some other international airport sucks up most of your cash.

If you live in the Central part of the US there is even less opportunity to get outside of the country. Seriously as I stated earlier, I have been around the world, yet I have not been to all 50 states yet.

I have spent 6 years studying French. I should be fluent. I am not, you know why? Because there are 15 people in the State of Oklahoma who speak French. I don't get to use it!

No we are not the cultural center of the universe, however, we dont have easy access to other cultures (except hispanic and some asisan ones) without traveling 1,000s of miles.

IMO we are NOT the center of the world. While we may be ONE of the MANY cultural and economic centers we are NOT the ONLY ONE. I consider the UN building to be the closest thing to the center of the world (NOTE: THE GROUNDS UPON WHICH THE UN IS BUILT IS INTERNATIONAL SOIL, so don't try defeating my argument with 'because the UN is in America that makes America the center of the world')

The histories of many countries will take a dim view of US actions during this period of time,no doubt the "war of Terror" which affected so many.Americans must probably know by now that most people are ardently anti-american,especially after that trifling little incident on 11-9-2001(only 3000+ people were lost.for a country of 300 million,that is a little loss)It was an incident with global repercussions that will continue to echo for as long as Islamic extremists exist.

At this juncture in history,the USA wields enough power to be hegemonic in nature without meaning to be due to the character of its political society and perhaps some of the qualities of its populace,though I am unsure in this assertion,I am probably wrong.This imbalance of world power,in which the US is currently the nexus,is slowly being regulated and rebalanced by a Russia rising like a phoenix from the ashes,a waking a China and a waking India,the formation of the EU and the 'Asian Tigers" of Singapore,Indonesia,Thailand and Malaysia as they slowly make their way to economic recovery.

With the rise of these regional powers and major powers,the US will be less inclined to be so...overzealous and unilateral in enforcing its 'national interests' at the expense of others.These concentrations of power will help to iron out the tablecloth of power that is pulled too much to the USA's side of the table.

Perhaps the main problem that most people have with the USA is that it pursues its own national interests and foreign policy at the expense of other nations and peoples,while most countries do not similarly do so.It is this that for me is my primary dislike of American foreign policy.
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South East Asia as a whole has an undercurrent of tension between all the countries,our alliance under ASEAN(Association of South East Asian Nations)held together by a fear of the rising power of hegemonic China,which is balanced only by the presence of current US military carrier groups in the South Pacific and South China Sea as well as economic links,along with Indian influence slowly increasing in ASEAN in the form of economic,cultural and military links.

Irrelevant but interesting fact:
Militarily,we balance out Malaysia and Indonesia combined,and possibly Thailand as well.To see how amazing that is,here is a comparison of population;Malaysia has 23 million people.Indonesia has 220 million people.Thailand has a population of 30 million over.Singapore has a population of 4 million people.So we don't get our reputation for nothing.You can interpret this as arrogance and overbearing pride in my country if u want.Fine by me.

Well said. US actions in the past and perhaps moreso in the present have not done much for increasing US prestige or trust overseas. However, I am a hopeless optimist at heart and thus seeing the potential for good in the US, I am committed to seeing it manifest.

I'm a bit unsure about 9/11. It had tremendous repercussions beyond the simple destruction of a pair of tall buildings. A tremendous amount of infrastructure in communications and network technology was located on the towers, and many thousands pulled time out of jobs to help with the effort. It also all but sank about 4 of our major airlines and crippled many others; all of this added up to much greater ecnomic damage than you may realize.

At the same time however, it was blown up all out of proportion by the US leadership in the following months. Regardless as to WHY that was the case, its fairly obvious that the current administration saw a chance to break out of its shell on 9/11 of make some real significant changes to US policy both overseas and at home. This duality of both significant damage and overblown response will take some time to sort through (thus, I belive the 9/11 comission might be quite useful in assisting us in our understanding).

I have seen positively nothing to indicate that Russia was in a recovery; aside from the possibility of petroleum exports, I can think of nothing that would help such a recovery so swiftly either. What have you seen to indicate this rise? From the numbers I've seen it'll take 20 years conservetively speaking (ie, not cooking the books to make it LOOK like a recovery) to rebuild infrastructure, organize their debt in a managable way, structure their economy to create sustainable growth, and create markets for their industry to specialize in.

Also, I'd hate to disagree, but with Iraq as an example, the rise of possible contenders for power will not have the effect of repressing US adventurism. Quite the opposite is likely in fact; I can think of few nations in history that willingly let compitition to inpinge on their status. Think of Britain, France, Russia and all other major powers when they encountered Meiji Japan or rising American power in the early 20th century.

It is possible that without a quick and dramatic policy shift in the US government, more adventurism will be seen in coming years as the US seeks to reclaim glory though its military that which it cannot claim by economic power. This kind of violent ego-boost has already been called for by the extremist movements within the NeoConservitive faction.

Well, moving on to ASEAN, which I have more questions on than insights to. If you would indulge me, I'd like to drill you for information.

Just how extensive are Indian links to ASEAN and how much military aid and influence is in the region? I had assumed that India was still mostly occuipied with their Eastern and Western Borders and too busy to send much in the way of military aid to ASEAN member nations.

I have also wondered just how deep-rooted is the fear of Japanese as well as Chinese predominance in the region, with Japan still on the wane that point seems moot, but tell me; from your experience is the fear of China a fear mostly from any rising power or a fear of China's more expansionist history?

Lastly, I find that many smaller nations have powerful militaries. I have heard some indications of Singapore's rep, but I don't know much about it. Are they primarily US trained and equiped? Or do they find alternate sources? Are significant numbers of troops deployed anywhere?

If you mean the center of the world's problems, then I think so.

I don't know, Cyprus is pretty much more important! ;)

Actually, based on many stats, the US is the main nation in the world, for it is the one that, for some reason out of my grasp, is powerful. I mean, how can they work everything so smoothly! It must take quite a bit of work, maybe that is why the have a VP, just to figure out what the departments each do, and every 4 or 8 years, they kick 'em out so no-one person knows what all the departments of the gov. do! :o

I think the American government thinks it's the center of the world, not the American people.

Well said. US actions in the past and perhaps moreso in the present have not done much for increasing US prestige or trust overseas. However, I am a hopeless optimist at heart and thus seeing the potential for good in the US, I am committed to seeing it manifest.

I'm a bit unsure about 9/11. It had tremendous repercussions beyond the simple destruction of a pair of tall buildings. A tremendous amount of infrastructure in communications and network technology was located on the towers, and many thousands pulled time out of jobs to help with the effort. It also all but sank about 4 of our major airlines and crippled many others; all of this added up to much greater ecnomic damage than you may realize.

At the same time however, it was blown up all out of proportion by the US leadership in the following months. Regardless as to WHY that was the case, its fairly obvious that the current administration saw a chance to break out of its shell on 9/11 of make some real significant changes to US policy both overseas and at home. This duality of both significant damage and overblown response will take some time to sort through (thus, I belive the 9/11 comission might be quite useful in assisting us in our understanding).

I have seen positively nothing to indicate that Russia was in a recovery; aside from the possibility of petroleum exports, I can think of nothing that would help such a recovery so swiftly either. What have you seen to indicate this rise? From the numbers I've seen it'll take 20 years conservetively speaking (ie, not cooking the books to make it LOOK like a recovery) to rebuild infrastructure, organize their debt in a managable way, structure their economy to create sustainable growth, and create markets for their industry to specialize in.

Also, I'd hate to disagree, but with Iraq as an example, the rise of possible contenders for power will not have the effect of repressing US adventurism. Quite the opposite is likely in fact; I can think of few nations in history that willingly let compitition to inpinge on their status. Think of Britain, France, Russia and all other major powers when they encountered Meiji Japan or rising American power in the early 20th century.

It is possible that without a quick and dramatic policy shift in the US government, more adventurism will be seen in coming years as the US seeks to reclaim glory though its military that which it cannot claim by economic power. This kind of violent ego-boost has already been called for by the extremist movements within the NeoConservitive faction.

Well, moving on to ASEAN, which I have more questions on than insights to. If you would indulge me, I'd like to drill you for information.

Just how extensive are Indian links to ASEAN and how much military aid and influence is in the region? I had assumed that India was still mostly occuipied with their Eastern and Western Borders and too busy to send much in the way of military aid to ASEAN member nations.

I have also wondered just how deep-rooted is the fear of Japanese as well as Chinese predominance in the region, with Japan still on the wane that point seems moot, but tell me; from your experience is the fear of China a fear mostly from any rising power or a fear of China's more expansionist history?

Lastly, I find that many smaller nations have powerful militaries. I have heard some indications of Singapore's rep, but I don't know much about it. Are they primarily US trained and equiped? Or do they find alternate sources? Are significant numbers of troops deployed anywhere?

In response to your statements regarding US policy,I think a saying might go hand in hand with it,as your referred to history;"Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are bound to repeat it."

I am a realist who thinks that America will only look out for its own interest at the cost of others,as it has always done.While I do hope that the USA could manifest its potential good,it won't happen in my lifetime,or in history.I am a pragmatic realist who hopes,but stills sees the truth from what he knows.It will take an enormous change within the USA to see this happen.

The 11/9/2001 incident(I refuse to use the american dating system and use the international one)did have tremendous consequences,yes,I agree.The repercussions affected nearly every country in the world.However,I agree that it was blown out of proportion.There have been other incidences where more lives have been lost,though not with the political and social effect on an international scale as September 11.

The leadership of the USA used it to its advantage and exploited the situation to its own benefit.While initial international sympathy was in favour of the USA,the administration wasted this with dangerous rhetoric:"You are either with us or against us!".

Anybody remember that speech?The president of the lone superpower saying that sends alarm bells ringing across the globe.A Texan cowboy who dodged the draft due to family wealth should never have been president of the USA.A president who has had very little international exposure even less so.

The leadership of the USA squandered any international sympathy by unilateral actions in later months.For example,to show the extent of sympathy,when the invasion of Afghanistan was orchestrated,even the Russians offered to help.The Russian offer was tactfully declined(having Russaid invade Afghnistan TWICE in 20 years is not very tactful).

Later on,with illegal actions against Iraq and furhter rhetoric,the USA ultimately wasted the sympathy,with its constant reiteration of the injustices it had suffered.It was unseemly they way America constantly reminded the world of what they had suffered.The rest of the world had suffered as well,with other countries suffering attacks before,in even worse situations,yet they soldiered on,with Western media ignoring these countries problems while always harping on about 11 September(11/9/2001).

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A quick deviation from my main point is my position on Iraq.My country is in the 'Coalition of the Willing' and did send troops for peacekeeping duties.As there were no WMD found,the cause of the war was invalid and thus lost justification.Fortunately,we keep a low profile in the coalition and are thus unaffected by it.

Nevertheless,at least a tyrant has been deposed and the future just might be brighter for Iraq.
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Regarding the recovery of Russia,with Putin as its current President,things are looking up.He is popular with the people.He is a good leader and politician as well as having military experience,being the former chief of the KGB.He has undertaken reforms that benefit Russia and one should see visible improvements within the decade.He is imparting discipline and a no-nonsense attitude to the government.

I take the long-term view in this matter and state with confidence that yes,within 2 decades,it WILL have recovered.After so long under communism,it will take time for it to get its act together.It will become a major power within my lifetime at least.

Regarding your statement on adventurim by the US,you are wholly entitled to your opinion,but I take my stand that with the rise of other powers,it will definitely moderate the American position and make them less belligerent and more respectful and multilateral in their attitude.I doubt the they would want to anger a great power by taking unapproved military action within its sphere of influence.This will eventually occur within the the 2 decades at least,or later.
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ASEAN is an association consisting of 10 member states,the Phillipines,Brunei,Malaysia,Singapore,Indonesia,Thailand,Myanmar,Cambodia,Laos and Vietnam.It was founded in the 1960's by Singapore,Malaysia and Indonesia,so as to present a united front to the superpowers of the Cold War era,especially so in the advent of the Vietnam War.ASEAN is more a way for dialogue so as to prevent conflict among the members,though increasingly it is seen as a social and economic forum,especially since the 1990's,with Vietnam's reversion to free market economics.

Historically,India has had a large amount of influence,culturally and socially,in South East Asia.This is seen in the 'soft power' it holds where Indian films are increasingly popular in countries such as Malaysia,Indonesia and Singapore.It also has influenced the ancient cultures of IndoChina such as Cambodia and Thailand as well as Laos and Myanmar.Economically,it is the third largest economy in Asia,before China and Japan,with a population of 1.1 billion people.

India is mostly occupied with their Northwestern borders with Pakistan,an old enemy,though peace is increasingly a reality between the two as both realise that with both having nuclear weapons,the only way to go is with peace,so that both survive and prosper.Military,India is the most powerful nation in South Asia and an even match for China or Russia.It controls the Indian Ocean with its navy and the skill of its pilots was proven to match those of the USAF in the recent COPE excercises between the IAF(Indian Air Force) and USAF(United States Air Force).However,it is still a developing country and at least a decade behind China economically.It has its deficiencies and advantages,as does any country.

ASEAN nations are more than wealthy enough to do without military aid from India,with many Indian businessmen increasingly investing in ASEAN coutries.No country needs military aid from India.However,two ocuntries which do receive economic aid are Cambodia and Myanmar.I will comment more on them later.

Regarding the fear,or rather hatred of the Japanese,the Japanese are among the largest foreign investors in ASEAN nations,among the USA,Britain and Australia as top foreign investors in the region.They give economic aid and invest in the countries such as Indonesia and Vietnam.There is no fear of the Japanese,but hatred for their crimes in World War Two for which they have never apologised.Still,people in ASEAN are practical and accept the Japanese investments and aid as subtle messages by the Japanese who like to be seen as atoning for their crimes.Japan provides technical training and economic aid to nations such as Cambodia and Laos within ASEAN.

From my experience,it is not fear of China but a deep wariness of it,due to its expansionist tendencies,as seen in claiming all the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea as it territory,as well as wariness of any rising power.Especially after the Vietnam War,where a proxy war between China,USSR and the West was fought,with the resulting devastation of Vietnam,including the setting up of puppet governments in South Vietnam by the USA.

In recent times,there has been an increase in patriotism in China,as well as individuals possesing the 'Middle Kingdom' mindset,where they see themselves as dominant within Asia and the other nations as tributaries or protectorates,a return to their imperial past.There are many conflicting attitudes about this though and this itself is open to debate and different interpretations,though the prevailing thought is that China is expansionist in nature by most laymen.

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(now on to a topic I am VERY familiar with.I am no expert,but I try to articulate my thoughts based on my opinions,facts and knowledge to the best of my ability and represent them here on these forums.This applies to all my posts.I try to be as accurate as possible,so forgive any errors)

Singapore is recognised as the most powerful military force in ASEAN and the dominant economic and mlitary power of the South East Asian region.It has a total population of approx. 4.5 million,with 3.5 million resident Singaporeans and 1 million foreign residents at any time.

Its armed forces,the SAF(Singapore Armed Forces) is baed on many doctrines.Originally British trained and influenced,it now is primarily Israeli-influenced and its doctrined borrowed from Israel,with significant American influence.It uses a mixture of American,European and local equipment and weapons.

The SAF has a standing force of 50 000 soldiers ay any time,but on activation of reserves can summon up an active strength of 350 000 troops withi 48 hours.The RSAF(Republic of Singapore Air Force) and the RN(Republic of Singapore Navy) consists mostly of professionals and all are highly trained and capable with advanced technology utilised as force multipliers.

It is able to maintain this amount of manpower,slightly over 10% of the total population,through compulsory conscription based on the Israeli,Korean and Swiss models.All males,upon turning 18,are conscripted for 2-2.5 years of training in either the army,civil defence,police,navy or air force.Upon finishing this training,they are considered as reserves of the army and return for annual training to refresh their skills.Reservist officers serve until the age of 50 and enlisted personnel until the age of 40.

The army consists mostly of conscripts,with key staff appointments given to regular professional troops.The civil defence and police are supplemented by conscripts.The navy and air force are almost entirely professional.

Singapore maintains dominance of south east Asia by two things.It maintains aerial and naval dominance in South East Asia.

The RSN currently is the most powerful navy in SEA(South East Asia)with its possession of Delta-Class Stealth Frigates,based of the French Lafayette.The RSAF maintains dominance through several squadrons of A-4S Super Skyhawks,F-16D's and other aircraft,as well as intended purchases of the Dassault Rafale from France and the F-35 from the USA.It also possesses cruise missiles in its inventory and 200+ MBTs(Main Battle Tanks).
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I know a lot about the SAF,but not much.They don't list everything in their ORBAT and there are a lot of classified units and weapons.For example;Israel has 500 nuclear warheads as a deterrent.Singapore has what are called "Silver Bullets",which is the term for it.Eveybody knows about them,but nobody knows what they are.They could be biological/chemical/nuclear weapons or something else altogether.Its a very hush-hush thing in my country,as almost every guy goes through it.Basically,there is a lot of classified items I don't know about.take my word on it.

Hope that satisfies you.As for diplomacy,Singapore maintains EXTREMELY close links with the USA,China and India.We are the ONLY country in the world that has a military base on American soil,or more accurately,a permanent air force detachment in Arizona(or Nevada,can't remember which) with their own base.We plan to train troops in India,planning military bases there,again the only country to do so.We have military bases in Thailand,the only country in the world to do so in Thailand again.We have a permanent base on Taiwan for training,and we also have bases in Australia and New Zealand,again for training,again also the only country to do so.These are all our strategic allies,though officially we are a neutral nation.

For the Taiwan base,troops are placed there as a symbolic way of keeping the two apart.We serve as a tripwire function,as China is very good friends with us,though we often have to use certain tactics to counter them for the good of SEA and ourselves.If Taiwan is about the be attacked,China will warn us so that we can pull our troops out,and this is an open signal to Taiwan that war will begin.We serve as an intermediary country for the two,for private talks.

(From December,I might be giving away my nations Ilham and Saudir as I must enlist with the army for 2 years and I doubt that I will have the time to look after it.So expect the first sale of a nation on nationstates in December)

As for Myanmar;here's a link.

http://www.sfdonline.org/sfd/Link%20Pages/Link%20Folders/Human%20Rights/burmasing.html

The above link is sourced from SFDOnline,which sourced the article from Janes Intelligence Reviwe,which is a VERY reliable source.it has a good reputation among international circles.

Enjoy.hope it is not information overload,this post.

The secret of a good post, is that it ties up so many loose ends. I thank you for all the info; your insights will prove invaluable to me.

Actually, I agree with most all of your posts assertions. Can't think of much more to say, really.

Thanks again, let me know if there's anything you'd like to know!

Go to New York, turn Right, go over that big ocian until you see a island shaped like a wonky triange center, go the the middle of the country and see a city name Nottingham, make sure it isn't Darby. Then land in the big stadium near the river Trent. That is the center of my world. :wink:

we're not the center of it, whe just in the middle of everything.

What i brilliant way of putting it!

*Gives award for brilliance*

the center of the world? please....













The center of the whole f--- ing UNIVERSE!!!!!

You'd have been one of the ones so keen to have Copernicus executed.

America will never be the centre of the world so long as ive got a hole in my ass, also the centre of the world is in two parts, the outer is liquid iron and the inner is solid iron, also if you read jules verns journey to the interior of the earth then its a barren land of lizards with cheesy fins stuck to thier backs and all you can eat is giant mushrooms, and so which ever you look at America is actually at the edge of the world on the crust, meaning you can never be the centre of the world.

Centre of the world:

http://www.utexas.edu/courses/introtogreece/lect16&17img/lect16&17img2.html

Edit: Damn, Damn, why won't it work????