NationStates Jolt Archive

I guess I'm just voicing a personal pet peeve here when I say that I'm not Irish. I have an irish last name, but that's about as far as it goes, and a great great great grandfather who grew up there and was Irish. I'm not. In fact, I'd say that I'm about as American as you get. Not that I have anything against the Irish, but I was born and raised here, and I can't say I speak gaelic, even a few words of it, and I don't know the culture, except for the bits I get from TV and pop culture. You know, stuff like, "The Irish are funny, poets, lucky, little, green..."

What I'm asking here is a little straw poll. I'd like to know how many of you really believe that people should call themselves by a nationality that they know nothing or next to nothing about. If you've never even been there, and your parents and grandparents haven't been there, can you say you're German? How much of your family can you trace back? How do you know that your great-great-great-great-great grandmother didn't hail from Czechoslovakia before she moved to Italy, and her mother came from Greece?

I don't usually argue the point when someone tells me they're Italian, even when they have an american accent and they were born in Wisconsin, but I'd like to know what you guys think. Is it a legitimate celebration of heritage, or a self-delusion that the actual natives of said country would laugh at?

100% Native American...born of the Eastern Band of the Cherokee Nation on the Qualla Reservation that straddles the border with North Carolina & Tennessee.

Ok, so I'd consider you to have a legitimate claim to being both American and Native American. That's a start. Not only have you been born in the culture, but you have been raised in it.

I understand where you are coming from and I respect it. But I do think stating “I am Irish or I am Italian” is a legitimate form of celebrating one’s heritage. When most immigrants came to this country they found they needed to abandon their heritage. Not all groups, obviously, but many because of the amount of prejudice and hate they experience when first landing in the United States. I have read many accounts about immigrants, the parents, urging their children to be American now because by letting go of their old ways they could succeed in this new land. It was a sad state of affairs that eventually led to many of us loosing touch with where we came from. Today, I have seen people mourn this loss and one way to regain it is to rediscover where we came from, where our longer roots rest. I am an American all the way. I love apple pie and baseball and always take the opportunity to vote. But I am also from Irish heritage: McCarthy, Madden and Owen. My Great, great grandmother was one of those people who took enormous and sad steps to make our family all American, including rewriting the family history in our family Bible. But just because she rewrote where people were born and gave some of us different last names (really this Bible is a trip to look at) doesn’t mean I have to go along with the illusion. I say celebrate all you heritages including the fact you are now an American, but never forget where you started.

I guess I'm just voicing a personal pet peeve here when I say that I'm not Irish. <snip>

Mmmm. This has always confuzzled me. For a country such as the USA - one where people are proud to be 'patriotic', fly flags from their porches and where one of the worst insults is 'un-american' - why do so many people want to be known as not just American, but Irish-American or Scots-American, or Italian-American, even if their forebears came over to the US hundreds of years ago?

Just seems a little......funny, that's all. I was up north (Scotland) a we while back, and gave an American family on holiday directons to some place (castle or shops, I don't remember). While wee breifly chatted, their Dad mentioned, in a wondeful Southern drawl:

By the way, we're Scotch too."

Now, forgetting the fact that this bloke had just called me a whiskey, it struck me as odd that a family who had never visited Scotland before and who were, I'm afraid to say, most stereotypicaly American considered themselves Scottish. Or 'Scotch', even.

I don't call myself Pictish-Scottish or Viking-Scottish...

Not that I'm annoyed or anything, we're all Human.

nearly 100% Irish...Northern...my great great great great great etc grandfather came from scotland, but the rest is all Irish. Born and raised in Ireland.
It irritates me when people who have never even set foot in Ireland say they are Irish. If their ancestors were Irish that just means they are of Irish descent, they are not Irish themselves.

100% bastard and damn proud. Never set foot on America but wouldn't call that a milestone.

. I was up north (Scotland) a we while back, and gave an American family on holiday directons to some place (castle or shops, I don't remember). While wee breifly chatted, their Dad mentioned, in a wondeful Southern drawl:

By the way, we're Scotch too."

Now, forgetting the fact that this bloke had just called me a whiskey, it struck me as odd that a family who had never visited Scotland before and who were, I'm afraid to say, most stereotypicaly American considered themselves Scottish. Or 'Scotch', even.

I don't call myself Pictish-Scottish or Viking-Scottish...

Not that I'm annoyed or anything, we're all Human.

Not being funny, but that's sort of the point I'm trying to make. The picts came from Ireland, and the Norse, well...you know, Scandinavia. I'm not saying that you're not Scottish, but I'm saying that we're all a bit of a mix, and most Americans saying they're German or whatnot really are just picking the most recent they can nail down and sticking with it.

I truly am Italian.

Just seems a little......funny, that's all. I was up north (Scotland) a we while back, and gave an American family on holiday directons to some place (castle or shops, I don't remember). While wee breifly chatted, their Dad mentioned, in a wondeful Southern drawl:

By the way, we're Scotch too."

Now, forgetting the fact that this bloke had just called me a whiskey, it struck me as odd that a family who had never visited Scotland before and who were, I'm afraid to say, most stereotypicaly American considered themselves Scottish. Or 'Scotch', even.


oh gosh yes - 'Scotch' :x argh! we are Scots or Scottish!

yes i really am Scottish. only 1/4 Scottish by blood but 100% by birth, residency, upbringing, and loyalty. 8)

Most Americans are mutts...at least 2nd if not 3rd generation and a good many more then that..Oh sure ..more Hispanics coming from central and south America are holding their genome better then most Americans because they aren't interested in assimilating...merely transplanting the culture they left behind...

For example..a tall pale, redhead may idenity more with his Irish heritage, a shorter, darker-skinned, black or brown haired individual may identify with his Italian side...really all depends on how one's genetics play out as well as how their heritage is portrayed at home. Do they celebrate St. Patrick's Day?..or Columbus Day more?...etc..etc..

I hate stereo-typing too. I was in America last year, and I got complemented twice on how fluent my English was!! :shock: And I got asked by wee kids if I had to wear a bullet proof vest to school, and I had other people treating me like I was deprived or something. :evil:

Yeah, but here's my main pet peeve. I understand someone identifying with their heritage, but I don't understand them actually saying, "I'm Italian" when they're clearly not.

"Of Italian extraction" is fine, "I'm Italian" bugs me.

I hate stereo-typing too. I was in America last year, and I got complemented twice on how fluent my English was!! :shock: And I got asked by wee kids if I had to wear a bullet proof vest to school, and I had other people treating me like I was deprived or something. :evil:

See? And probably a third of those kids might call themselves Irish whilst at the same time knowing nothing about Ireland. It's a shame, really, and I think it creates a problem with the ones who actually make it to their "homeland" for a visit. They might be in for a rude awakening, and this might be taken the wrong way by those who are native and resident there.

oh gosh yes - 'Scotch' :x argh! we are Scots or Scottish!


"Scotch" is a perfectly good word to describe the people of Scotland - true, it may have fallen out of common usage in the last hundred years, but it still has several centuries of precedent before that.

I hate stereo-typing too. I was in America last year, and I got complemented twice on how fluent my English was!! :shock: And I got asked by wee kids if I had to wear a bullet proof vest to school, and I had other people treating me like I was deprived or something. :evil:

See? And probably a third of those kids might call themselves Irish whilst at the same time knowing nothing about Ireland. It's a shame, really, and I think it creates a problem with the ones who actually make it to their "homeland" for a visit. They might be in for a rude awakening, and this might be taken the wrong way by those who are native and resident there.

As a Northern Irelander myself (for want of a better term) I also experienced this to some degree when I was in the US, but having seen the way in which the news from here is reported there, I am not surprised.

At least those asking BelFierste were seeking to find out something about the reality of his/her life there. Asking whether BelFierste wears a bullet proof vest on his/her way to school may seem ludicrous, but asking whether they had ever been in a bombscare would be a perfectly valid question - and one to which 99% of the population here would answer in the affirmative.

Moving on - what really irks me is this thing called "Irish Punk" in the states... "Irish-American Punk" it may well be, but "Irish Punk" it is not - that is something made by punks in Ireland (and, for what it is worth, sounds completely different).

Why has the "African-American" portion of the US managed to recognise that they are X-Americans, while most other groups there, such as Italian-Americans, German-Americans, Irish-Americans, etc. haven't yet made this cognitive leap?

I was born here but my Grandfather was a Pole.

My mothers side are Scots.

I understand where you are coming from and I respect it. But I do think stating “I am Irish or I am Italian” is a legitimate form of celebrating one’s heritage. When most immigrants came to this country they found they needed to abandon their heritage. Not all groups, obviously, but many because of the amount of prejudice and hate they experience when first landing in the United States. I have read many accounts about immigrants, the parents, urging their children to be American now because by letting go of their old ways they could succeed in this new land. It was a sad state of affairs that eventually led to many of us loosing touch with where we came from. Today, I have seen people mourn this loss and one way to regain it is to rediscover where we came from, where our longer roots rest. I am an American all the way. I love apple pie and baseball and always take the opportunity to vote. But I am also from Irish heritage: McCarthy, Madden and Owen. My Great, great grandmother was one of those people who took enormous and sad steps to make our family all American, including rewriting the family history in our family Bible. But just because she rewrote where people were born and gave some of us different last names (really this Bible is a trip to look at) doesn’t mean I have to go along with the illusion. I say celebrate all you heritages including the fact you are now an American, but never forget where you started.

I couldn't have expressed it better. There was a huge push toward the melting pot style assimulation. It was very apparent in my family, a mixture of Irish, Sicilian and English. No doubt this resulted from there being a strong prejudice against the Irish and Sicilian/Italians in my grandparents and parents day that is not there today.

Perhaps it is unique to America that we express our "lost" heritage as a nationality or nationalities. The truth is that a figue of speech, ellipsis, is at play here. When such a statement is made it is a given that we are American.

SHL

Not sure if it really answers you original question, but here's my thoughts.

I was born in Wales and so think of myself as Welsh, (its only been 3 1/2 years since I left for the USA). However, my paternal Grandfather's family originated in Devon in England, and my maternal Grandfather was a full blown Cockney, so I could, conceivably, think of myself as English... but I don't! When I eventually get my US citizenship, I will consider myself an American of Welsh heritage.

Not sure if it really answers you original question, but here's my thoughts.

I was born in Wales and so think of myself as Welsh, (its only been 3 1/2 years since I left for the USA). However, my paternal Grandfather's family originated in Devon in England, and my maternal Grandfather was a full blown Cockney, so I could, conceivably, think of myself as English... but I don't! When I eventually get my US citizenship, I will consider myself an American of Welsh heritage.

You would actually be entitled as far as I was concerned to call yourself both Welsh and American. Of course, Devon isn't really that far off from Wales, and they're both in the celtic fringe, so chances are you'd have had some devonshire blood in you at any rate, whether you knew it or not. The cockneys on the other hand...who knows what they are anymore, or ever. They are english, but really nobody can pin much of anything down in London. It's kind of a cosmopolitan place, and for centuries it has seen an influx of allsorts from everywhere.