NationStates Jolt Archive

I've been told many a time (by non-Australians) that unless your of a certain proffession (doctor, teacher, engineer, etc) that would contribute greatly towards Australian society, then you've got pratically no chance of emigrating to Australia. Is this still true?

I'd love to emigrate to Australia - nice people, great weather, big country, cool animals, cool accent, pretty decent society (methinks - or is there a dark underbelly...?) and big, feck-off crocidiles.

However, will I only ever get to have brief visits to the land down under? Won't you let me stay!! (I'll be nice.)

So is Oz hard to get into and stay? And is it as cool a country as I believe?

NAE SPAMMERS OR ANY OF THAT ILK, MIND.

I've been told many a time (by non-Australians) that unless your of a certain proffession (doctor, teacher, engineer, etc) that would contribute greatly towards Australian society, then you've got pratically no chance of emigrating to Australia. Is this still true?

I'd love to emigrate to Australia - nice people, great weather, big country, cool animals, cool accent, pretty decent society (methinks - or is there a dark underbelly...?) and big, feck-off crocidiles.

However, will I only ever get to have brief visits to the land down under? Won't you let me stay!! (I'll be nice.)

So is Oz hard to get into and stay? And is it as cool a country as I believe?

NAE SPAMMERS OR ANY OF THAT ILK, MIND.

crocodiles, bulls, various killer animals and insects and spiders>you

crocodiles, bulls, various killer animals and insects and spiders>you

Oh, thats allright. I konda enjoy the idea of living in a country where humans aren't always the top of the food chain.

crocodiles, bulls, various killer animals and insects and spiders>you

Oh, thats allright. I konda enjoy the idea of living in a country where humans aren't always the top of the food chain.

go in a river in the bush and you get 4 metre crocodiles :twisted:

I've been told many a time (by non-Australians) that unless your of a certain proffession (doctor, teacher, engineer, etc) that would contribute greatly towards Australian society, then you've got pratically no chance of emigrating to Australia. Is this still true?

I'd love to emigrate to Australia - nice people, great weather, big country, cool animals, cool accent, pretty decent society (methinks - or is there a dark underbelly...?) and big, feck-off crocidiles.

However, will I only ever get to have brief visits to the land down under? Won't you let me stay!! (I'll be nice.)

So is Oz hard to get into and stay? And is it as cool a country as I believe?

NAE SPAMMERS OR ANY OF THAT ILK, MIND.

As an Australian, I can say that the skilled immigration program is aimed at those with skills. Very few people who are unskilled are able to migrate these days.

I would also not recommend a leaky boat. For you are likely to end up being locked in a detention centre for up to 5 years.

I recommend you look at the following site:

http://www.immi.gov.au/work/index.htm

Here you will find under the heading "Migrating to Australia" information on how to apply. Mainly it is for people with skills.

What good is unskilled labour to an advanced economy?

Cheers for the link.

What good is unskilled labour to an advanced economy?

When I last heard about it, it sounded as ifonly a very narrow category of skilled people with specific jobs/skills were allowed in.

It's very easy... Come to New Zealand (we'll take almost anyone) and get citizenship, and then you can get into Australia without a visa. The government is talking about doing away with passports between the two countries again.

Although, once you're in New Zealand, you won't want to go to Australia, because it's crap compared to NZ. :lol:

Although, once you're in New Zealand, you won't want to go to Australia, because it's crap compared to NZ. :lol:

I think not :lol:

It's very easy... Come to New Zealand (we'll take almost anyone) and get citizenship, and then you can get into Australia without a visa. The government is talking about doing away with passports between the two countries again.

Although, once you're in New Zealand, you won't want to go to Australia, because it's crap compared to NZ. :lol:

4 metre crocs>NZ :lol:

It's very easy... Come to New Zealand (we'll take almost anyone) and get citizenship, and then you can get into Australia without a visa. The government is talking about doing away with passports between the two countries again.

Although, once you're in New Zealand, you won't want to go to Australia, because it's crap compared to NZ. :lol:

LOL...yes New Zealand with its high unemployment, shortage of women and the brain drain because most of their trained professionals are heading to Australia where real wages are higher.

Lawn...perhaps the abolition of passports between NZ and AUST is the first stage of a very sneaky anschluss :lol:

New Zealand - The Seventh State (kinda has a ring to it :wink: )

Cheers for the link.

What good is unskilled labour to an advanced economy?

When I last heard about it, it sounded as ifonly a very narrow category of skilled people with specific jobs/skills were allowed in.

No, most of the immigrants taken in are skilled. There is the humanitarian program too. Australia lets in approximately 120,000 immigrants a year.

Personally, I believe it should be higher - like 200,000 a year (of which 50,000 be assisted like we did up until the late 1960's).

It's very easy... Come to New Zealand (we'll take almost anyone) and get citizenship, and then you can get into Australia without a visa. The government is talking about doing away with passports between the two countries again.

Although, once you're in New Zealand, you won't want to go to Australia, because it's crap compared to NZ. :lol:

4 metre crocs>NZ :lol:

Speight's> the cat piss which passes for beer in Oz

It's very easy... Come to New Zealand (we'll take almost anyone) and get citizenship, and then you can get into Australia without a visa. The government is talking about doing away with passports between the two countries again.

Although, once you're in New Zealand, you won't want to go to Australia, because it's crap compared to NZ. :lol:

4 metre crocs>NZ :lol:

Speight's> the cat piss which passes for beer in Oz

:? Have you ever even tasted Australian beer other than Fosters?

It's very easy... Come to New Zealand (we'll take almost anyone) and get citizenship, and then you can get into Australia without a visa. The government is talking about doing away with passports between the two countries again.

Although, once you're in New Zealand, you won't want to go to Australia, because it's crap compared to NZ. :lol:

LOL...yes New Zealand with its high unemployment, shortage of women and the brain drain because most of their trained professionals are heading to Australia where real wages are higher.

Lawn...perhaps the abolition of passports between NZ and AUST is the first stage of a very sneaky anschluss :lol:

New Zealand - The Seventh State (kinda has a ring to it :wink: )

The unemployed all end up in Australia, because it's the best place for criminals. :P

Australia- the West Island has a better ring. 8)

It's very easy... Come to New Zealand (we'll take almost anyone) and get citizenship, and then you can get into Australia without a visa. The government is talking about doing away with passports between the two countries again.

Although, once you're in New Zealand, you won't want to go to Australia, because it's crap compared to NZ. :lol:

4 metre crocs>NZ :lol:

Speight's> the cat piss which passes for beer in Oz

:? Have you ever even tasted Australian beer other than Fosters?

Of course I have. XXXX, VB, Toohey's... All pisswater.

Australia- the West Island has a better ring. 8)

Yes...keep dreaming. :lol:

Besides we control your largest bank, own much of your national airline and oh yeah let's not forget who is building your 2 frigates and basically controls your defence force (what little of it is left since Helen ditched it)

Speight's> the cat piss which passes for beer in Oz

:? Have you ever even tasted Australian beer other than Fosters?

Of course I have. XXXX, VB, Toohey's... All pisswater.

well that would explain it, try Coopers

I've been told many a time (by non-Australians) that unless your of a certain proffession (doctor, teacher, engineer, etc) that would contribute greatly towards Australian society, then you've got pratically no chance of emigrating to Australia. Is this still true?

I'd love to emigrate to Australia - nice people, great weather, big country, cool animals, cool accent, pretty decent society (methinks - or is there a dark underbelly...?) and big, feck-off crocidiles.

However, will I only ever get to have brief visits to the land down under? Won't you let me stay!! (I'll be nice.)

So is Oz hard to get into and stay? And is it as cool a country as I believe?

NAE SPAMMERS OR ANY OF THAT ILK, MIND.

Your new home (one of these placed listed on this site)
http://www.minister.immi.gov.au/borders/detention/

:P :twisted:

Oh how lucky you are in Australia...only 120.000 a year and they have to be skilled....millions across from Mexico every year and mostly unskilled..and of that percentage a good portion who have no desire to become citizens..they come merely for the work....oh that we could separate Mexico from the North American continent.

Oh how lucky you are in Australia...only 120.000 a year and they have to be skilled....millions across from Mexico every year and mostly unskilled..and of that percentage a good portion who have no desire to become citizens..they come merely for the work....oh that we could separate Mexico from the North American continent.

Aren't they the same people who work in 3rd world conditions for corporations?

it is quite hard to get in, my cousin from the uk couldn't get citizenship, though as she's doing her degree out here she'll sneak in once she is qualified. though my mate's grandmother (from china) got in no problems... his unqualified cousins have also arrived with no difficulty...

the govt. is thinking of increasing the unskilled quota so long as you live outside Sydney or Melbourne, which is fine as byron bay is where you want to be.

don't move to adelaide though :shock:

going via NZ is a good idea if you cannot go through the front door

Oh how lucky you are in Australia...only 120.000 a year and they have to be skilled....millions across from Mexico every year and mostly unskilled..and of that percentage a good portion who have no desire to become citizens..they come merely for the work....oh that we could separate Mexico from the North American continent.

Aren't they the same people who work in 3rd world conditions for corporations?

Ahmm....no..they work in everything from a local mom and pop grocery to landscaping to working the harvest season in the states....sweatshops make for good soundbytes on the evening news..but not every Mexican illegal works in those situations..they make actually very good money working in the agricultural jobs.

Oh how lucky you are in Australia...only 120.000 a year and they have to be skilled....millions across from Mexico every year and mostly unskilled..and of that percentage a good portion who have no desire to become citizens..they come merely for the work....oh that we could separate Mexico from the North American continent.
Ahhhh but so many rich corporations enjoy having a cheap labour pool so that they can become even richer.

Don't blame the Mexicans.

Oh how lucky you are in Australia...only 120.000 a year and they have to be skilled....millions across from Mexico every year and mostly unskilled..and of that percentage a good portion who have no desire to become citizens..they come merely for the work....oh that we could separate Mexico from the North American continent.
Ahhhh but so many rich corporations enjoy having a cheap labour pool so that they can become even richer.

Don't blame the Mexicans.

Actually...the illegals tend not to work for big corporations...that much easier to get caught up in an INS sweep...and ahmm..I can blame the Mexicans..are they not committing a crime by illegally entering my country?

Well, as far as I can see if you're white you'll be let in with open arms, however if you're not you're taken to some pacific island literally in the middle of nowhere (aka Nauru).

So, are you white? If you are, welcome to Australia?

(BTW, I'm not Australian nor do I live in Australia. The views expressed are purely my cynical view of the situation after seeing reports etc on TV).

Oh how lucky you are in Australia...only 120.000 a year and they have to be skilled....millions across from Mexico every year and mostly unskilled..and of that percentage a good portion who have no desire to become citizens..they come merely for the work....oh that we could separate Mexico from the North American continent.

Aren't they the same people who work in 3rd world conditions for corporations?

Ahmm....no..they work in everything from a local mom and pop grocery to landscaping to working the harvest season in the states....sweatshops make for good soundbytes on the evening news..but not every Mexican illegal works in those situations..they make actually very good money working in the agricultural jobs.
Presumably, the Cherokee Nation is itching to step up to the plate and fill those "high-paying" jobs (I'm thinkin' of picking up lettuce on Virginia's Eastern Shore, or plucking oranges off trees in Cali, or mopping floors at Wal-Marts all over) that are currently done by the Mexicans & Co.

Australia- the West Island has a better ring. 8)

Yes...keep dreaming. :lol:

Besides we control your largest bank, own much of your national airline and oh yeah let's not forget who is building your 2 frigates and basically controls your defence force (what little of it is left since Helen ditched it)

Say what you like, but at the end of the day, you're still an Aussie. You'll never be able to pronounce the word "six" properly. :lol:

Well, as far as I can see if you're white you'll be let in with open arms, however if you're not you're taken to some pacific island literally in the middle of nowhere (aka Nauru).

So, are you white? If you are, welcome to Australia?

(BTW, I'm not Australian nor do I live in Australia. The views expressed are purely my cynical view of the situation after seeing reports etc on TV).

Don't forget some of those people ended up in New Zealand. It's a lot like Australia, except with a social conscience.

Australia- the West Island has a better ring. 8)

Yes...keep dreaming. :lol:

Besides we control your largest bank, own much of your national airline and oh yeah let's not forget who is building your 2 frigates and basically controls your defence force (what little of it is left since Helen ditched it)

Say what you like, but at the end of the day, you're still an Aussie. You'll never be able to pronounce the word "six" properly. :lol:

wtf? :?

Australia- the West Island has a better ring. 8)

Yes...keep dreaming. :lol:

Besides we control your largest bank, own much of your national airline and oh yeah let's not forget who is building your 2 frigates and basically controls your defence force (what little of it is left since Helen ditched it)

Say what you like, but at the end of the day, you're still an Aussie. You'll never be able to pronounce the word "six" properly. :lol:

wtf? :?

Listen to an Aussie say the word. It comes out as "seex". :lol:

Australia- the West Island has a better ring. 8)

Yes...keep dreaming. :lol:

Besides we control your largest bank, own much of your national airline and oh yeah let's not forget who is building your 2 frigates and basically controls your defence force (what little of it is left since Helen ditched it)

Say what you like, but at the end of the day, you're still an Aussie. You'll never be able to pronounce the word "six" properly. :lol:

wtf? :?

Listen to an Aussie say the word. It comes out as "seex". :lol:
actually, it comes out as 'sicks'

If its any harder to get into than Canada, you'd better either give up now, or apply right away, you might just get about a year there before you die.

Of course you could go over now, get a work permit and apply for a visa once your there.

Australia- the West Island has a better ring. 8)

Yes...keep dreaming. :lol:

Besides we control your largest bank, own much of your national airline and oh yeah let's not forget who is building your 2 frigates and basically controls your defence force (what little of it is left since Helen ditched it)

Say what you like, but at the end of the day, you're still an Aussie. You'll never be able to pronounce the word "six" properly. :lol:

wtf? :?

Listen to an Aussie say the word. It comes out as "seex". :lol:
actually, it comes out as 'sicks'

Are you deaf or Australian?

Well, as far as I can see if you're white you'll be let in with open arms, however if you're not you're taken to some pacific island literally in the middle of nowhere (aka Nauru).

So, are you white? If you are, welcome to Australia?

(BTW, I'm not Australian nor do I live in Australia. The views expressed are purely my cynical view of the situation after seeing reports etc on TV).

:lol: Yeah...right! These days most immigrants are Asian. Whites consist of about 15%.

Oh how lucky you are in Australia...only 120.000 a year and they have to be skilled....millions across from Mexico every year and mostly unskilled..and of that percentage a good portion who have no desire to become citizens..they come merely for the work....oh that we could separate Mexico from the North American continent.

Aren't they the same people who work in 3rd world conditions for corporations?

Ahmm....no..they work in everything from a local mom and pop grocery to landscaping to working the harvest season in the states....sweatshops make for good soundbytes on the evening news..but not every Mexican illegal works in those situations..they make actually very good money working in the agricultural jobs.
Presumably, the Cherokee Nation is itching to step up to the plate and fill those "high-paying" jobs (I'm thinkin' of picking up lettuce on Virginia's Eastern Shore, or plucking oranges off trees in Cali, or mopping floors at Wal-Marts all over) that are currently done by the Mexicans & Co.

Excuse me?...I happen to come from farming stock...you can make a damn good amount of money during harvest time...especially since the illegals are getting money under the table...it's not taxed....what they get is net never gross.

But whether an Indian does it..a black man..white or asian is irrevelent to the simple fact they are committing a crime by illegally entering our country, they are not US citizens

You know, Salishe, I agree with you in theory, but the fact is that as long as there are no real penalties for companies that hire illegals, then there won't be a stop to it. Hell, Tyson got busted flying illegals into the country last year on a company plane onto a private airstrip and they got a slap on the wrist. Now certainly the Mexicans who came across knew they were breaking the law, but can you blame them when the company who is hiring them is so blatantly doing the same thing? Who's more to blame for the situation? I say the company doing the hiring.

You know, Salishe, I agree with you in theory, but the fact is that as long as there are no real penalties for companies that hire illegals, then there won't be a stop to it. Hell, Tyson got busted flying illegals into the country last year on a company plane onto a private airstrip and they got a slap on the wrist. Now certainly the Mexicans who came across knew they were breaking the law, but can you blame them when the company who is hiring them is so blatantly doing the same thing? Who's more to blame for the situation? I say the company doing the hiring.

Ahmm..no...you place blame squarely on the person choosing to commit the crime.no one is saying.."Gee.if they're hiring I don't care if it's a crime or not"..each individual makes a personal choice to break the law when they enter our country illegally...it also is a slap in the face of millions of immigrants who have gone thru the exaustive process of legally immigrating to the US...it's not a question over "who is more to blame"...it is simple.....they commit a crime under US Law entering our country illegally...if they want to work in this country there are legal means by which to do so...anything else is a crime.

So the companies who knowingly hire illegals have no responsibility in the matter? Are you really arguing that?

Companies like WalMart and corporations that own fruit farms and the like are giving jobs to immigrants illegally. If they stopped employing these people, then there would be a huge reduction in illegal immigration. Why do you think they come over the border in the first place? Because they know they can get a job - a back-breaking, poorly-paid job at that - but a job none-the-less.

If you feel seriously about this Salishe, campaign against corporations employing people illegaly.

So the companies who knowingly hire illegals have no responsibility in the matter? Are you really arguing that?

Never said that...there are laws on the books to deal with companies or individuals who hire illegals...should they be revamped..certainly, but that does not absolve those who enter our country illegally. Personal responsibility.....it's what it is all bout right?...Wouldn't you agree..they can choose to enter legally or illegally..they choose to commit a crime.. it's simple..don't make it more complex then that.

Not to mention that companies who hire illegals do so because the illegals know they can't complain about unfair treatment. It really is exploitation at its worst.

And the argument that US workers don't want these jobs is crap. They want the jobs--they just happen to want real wages as well.

Companies like WalMart and corporations that own fruit farms and the like are giving jobs to immigrants illegally. If they stopped employing these people, then there would be a huge reduction in illegal immigration. Why do you think they come over the border in the first place? Because they know they can get a job - a back-breaking, poorly-paid job at that - but a job none-the-less.

If you feel seriously about this Salishe, campaign against corporations employing people illegaly.

No..you don't come over to my sandbox because they sand might be better...you stay in your own sandbox and make it better....they are citizens of Mexico...if things are bad there employment-wise..perhaps they need to stay there and make things better..you aren't making things better in Mexico by committing a crime here in the States.

So the companies who knowingly hire illegals have no responsibility in the matter? Are you really arguing that?

Never said that...there are laws on the books to deal with companies or individuals who hire illegals...should they be revamped..certainly, but that does not absolve those who enter our country illegally. Personal responsibility.....it's what it is all bout right?...Wouldn't you agree..they can choose to enter legally or illegally..they choose to commit a crime.. it's simple..don't make it more complex then that.But it is more complex than that. You're in your home country, starving, and without a job. Someone offers you a job making more money than you can conceive of in your home country, but you've got to break the law to do it. The penalty if you get caught is that you get deported, but the upside seems wonderful--a job, money, and the possibility of becoming legal eventually. Who wouldn't take that kind of a risk even if you find out beforehand that the money isn't going to be that great and that your boss will turn you in himself if you bitch about anything? The upside is too good.

So the companies who knowingly hire illegals have no responsibility in the matter? Are you really arguing that?

Never said that...there are laws on the books to deal with companies or individuals who hire illegals...should they be revamped..certainly, but that does not absolve those who enter our country illegally. Personal responsibility.....it's what it is all bout right?...Wouldn't you agree..they can choose to enter legally or illegally..they choose to commit a crime.. it's simple..don't make it more complex then that.But it is more complex than that. You're in your home country, starving, and without a job. Someone offers you a job making more money than you can conceive of in your home country, but you've got to break the law to do it. The penalty if you get caught is that you get deported, but the upside seems wonderful--a job, money, and the possibility of becoming legal eventually. Who wouldn't take that kind of a risk even if you find out beforehand that the money isn't going to be that great and that your boss will turn you in himself if you bitch about anything? The upside is too good.

Again..you making more of it..it's a choice..a simple choice..."I can break the law or not"..if the job is so damn appealing...then you go thru the immigration process just like any legal immigrant...period.

No..you don't come over to my sandbox because they sand might be better...you stay in your own sandbox and make it better....

Well, off you go to the Mexican slums then. You better tell them personally, cos they're not listening.

they are citizens of Mexico...if things are bad there employment-wise..perhaps they need to stay there and make things better..you aren't making things better in Mexico by committing a crime here in the States.

And you aren't helping things bybeing a corporation that knowingly offers money and jobs to illegal immigrants. WalMart and companies like them are creating a job market for illegal aliens. Without the demand, the supply will dry up.

There is a simple solution to this though, Salishe. Illegals are coming here for work--period. Take away the ability for them to work, and they won't come. How do you do that? Nail companies to the wall if they're caught hiring illegals--and I'm talking death penalty type fines and jail time for anyone involved in it. What that will do in the meantime is require companies that are currently hiring illegals to offer real wages to US workers and help jumpstart the economy again. The other thing that will do is lead to a very tight job market and there will be pressure to increase legal immigration, so the people who want to come in legally will be able to.

No..you don't come over to my sandbox because they sand might be better...you stay in your own sandbox and make it better....

Well, off you go to the Mexican slums then. You better tell them personally, cos they're not listening.

they are citizens of Mexico...if things are bad there employment-wise..perhaps they need to stay there and make things better..you aren't making things better in Mexico by committing a crime here in the States.

And you aren't helping things bybeing a corporation that knowingly offers money and jobs to illegal immigrants. WalMart and companies like them are creating a job market for illegal aliens. Without the demand, the supply will dry up.

Actually..Wal-Mart didn't hire them....they worked for a cleaning contractor that Wal-Mart had hired...Wal-Mart had no expectation that the cleaning contractor would be breaking the law.

And again...irrevelent[b] what US companies or individuals may or may not do....it is [b]a crime to illegally enter this country What bout this is so difficult to understand?

There is a simple solution to this though, Salishe. Illegals are coming here for work--period. Take away the ability for them to work, and they won't come. How do you do that? Nail companies to the wall if they're caught hiring illegals--and I'm talking death penalty type fines and jail time for anyone involved in it. What that will do in the meantime is require companies that are currently hiring illegals to offer real wages to US workers and help jumpstart the economy again. The other thing that will do is lead to a very tight job market and there will be pressure to increase legal immigration, so the people who want to come in legally will be able to.

No....the far more simple method is use our National Guard to patrol our borders and stop the flow of illegals...what you are doing is still excusing their original crime in coming here illegally.

I agree with you, Salishe. It's illegal for them to come in. Fine. Great.

But it's also illegal for US companies to hire them, and they're not coming here for the warm welcome they receive. The responsibility is not solely theirs. If there were no jobs for them here, they would have no reason to come here. The companies that hire and exploit them are at least partly culpable here.

I agree with you, Salishe. It's illegal for them to come in. Fine. Great.

But it's also illegal for US companies to hire them, and they're not coming here for the warm welcome they receive. The responsibility is not solely theirs. If there were no jobs for them here, they would have no reason to come here. The companies that hire and exploit them are at least partly culpable here.

Yes the responsibility is theirs..what is it bout personal responsibilty that you have a problem with?...I don't care if the a job full of milk and honey awaits an illegal...if it is so appealing they can damn well do what every legal immigrant has done...otherwise they are no better then any other criminal.

I've already said that companies or individuals that hire illegals have to pay the piper..that laws should be revamped as far as punitive..but that will never excuse the original crime the illegal commits when he enters this country illegally

Personally, Salishe, if my family was starving and I thought that I could build a better life for them by crossing a border to get work and the only real penalty I faced if I got caught was deportation, I'd consider it a pretty responsible act to cross that border. Maybe you don't see it that way--I can respect that--but if I were in that situation, I might weigh the circumstances a little differently.

Personally, Salishe, if my family was starving and I thought that I could build a better life for them by crossing a border to get work and the only real penalty I faced if I got caught was deportation, I'd consider it a pretty responsible act to cross that border. Maybe you don't see it that way--I can respect that--but if I were in that situation, I might weigh the circumstances a little differently.

As I said..if the job is so appealing there are legal ways to either come here for work or if one so desires to become a naturalized citizen..by taking neither route I can only label them a criminal no matter how well-intentioned their motives..by not respecting this nation's borders or our immigration policies

http://maddox.xmission.com/hatemail.cgi?p=1#CLUETRAIN

http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=walmart

When you're poor, hungry and hopeless you aren't going to give two shits about breaking a law. From my understanding of the american immigration, it's pretty hard getting to america legally from mexico, might be wrong though.

http://maddox.xmission.com/hatemail.cgi?p=1#CLUETRAIN

http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=walmart

When you're poor, hungry and hopeless you aren't going to give two shits about breaking a law. From my understanding of the american immigration, it's pretty hard getting to america legally from mexico, might be wrong though.

Well..if you don't care bout my nation's policy then don't be upset when we sweep them up and drop them on their side of the border. And it's not hard if you go thru the legitimate process...may take awhile but that is irrevelent..it's the law....want to be a criminal..then come here illegally.

They are Mexican citizens..if their situation in Mexico is bad..then clean up your own house..don't come shitting in mine just because you don't like the smell in your own yard.

Imagine for a second..and I'm going to use our English brethren as an example..your country is consistently flooded with French-speaking individuals who refuse to learn english..who take up your valuable resources....who have no insurance because of the jobs they take, therefore they flood your Emergency rooms and demand treatment, thereby driving up the costs for emergency rooms in every hospital. To add insult they pay no taxes thereby the costs of these illegal frenchmen fall square on the back of your hard-working honest englishmen..how would they feel?

Don't forget some of those people ended up in New Zealand. It's a lot like Australia, except with a social conscience.

Hmm, I don't know much about New Zealand. What's it like?

Well, as far as I can see if you're white you'll be let in with open arms, however if you're not you're taken to some pacific island literally in the middle of nowhere (aka Nauru).

So, are you white? If you are, welcome to Australia?

(BTW, I'm not Australian nor do I live in Australia. The views expressed are purely my cynical view of the situation after seeing reports etc on TV).

:lol: Yeah...right! These days most immigrants are Asian. Whites consist of about 15%.

So you obviously don't consider British people immigrants then?!

Oh how lucky you are in Australia...only 120.000 a year and they have to be skilled....millions across from Mexico every year and mostly unskilled..and of that percentage a good portion who have no desire to become citizens..they come merely for the work....oh that we could separate Mexico from the North American continent.

Aren't they the same people who work in 3rd world conditions for corporations?

Ahmm....no..they work in everything from a local mom and pop grocery to landscaping to working the harvest season in the states....sweatshops make for good soundbytes on the evening news..but not every Mexican illegal works in those situations..they make actually very good money working in the agricultural jobs.
Presumably, the Cherokee Nation is itching to step up to the plate and fill those "high-paying" jobs (I'm thinkin' of picking up lettuce on Virginia's Eastern Shore, or plucking oranges off trees in Cali, or mopping floors at Wal-Marts all over) that are currently done by the Mexicans & Co.

Excuse me?...I happen to come from farming stock...you can make a damn good amount of money during harvest time...especially since the illegals are getting money under the table...it's not taxed....what they get is net never gross.

But whether an Indian does it..a black man..white or asian is irrevelent to the simple fact they are committing a crime by illegally entering our country, they are not US citizens
Do you have any data on per-hour/day/week rates that the illegals are earning in agricultural jobs? Perhaps the very prevalence of immigrant labour in labour-intensive agricultural activities suggests that there are few American citizens willing to do work this hard for the kind of money farmers are willing to pay.

As for your continuous protestations that illegal immigration is illegal, you're simply begging the question. -- And the question is: do the current U.S. immigration rules -- which prohibit unskilled immigrants from coming to work in America either permanently or temporary -- make sense? I would submit to you that while there is supply of cheap labour south of the border and demand for it in America, keeping the two apart is very much like pissing against the wind.

A sensible solution (aside from encouraging econ. development in Mexico and Central America) would be to institute a temporary work programme to allow Mexicans & Co. to temporarily work low-skill low-pay jobs in the U.S., provided there is a willing employer. The employers would get the cheap labour they want, and the labourers would be able to work legally and go back to Mexico at the end of temporary employment (e.g., harvest season) without fear of not being able to easily cross the border again later. Such an arrangement would also reduce incentives for illegal immigration, as a portion of U.S. demand for cheap labour would have been fulfilled through a temporary work programme. Abuses, such as coming in on a temporary visa and overstaying it, are inevitable, but could be lessened with better tracking of temporary workers & visitors and with threat of harsh penalties (ban on entering the U.S.) for those who break the rules.

Do you have any data on per-hour/day/week rates that the illegals are earning in agricultural jobs? Perhaps the very prevalence of immigrant labour in labour-intensive agricultural activities suggests that there are few American citizens willing to do work this hard for the kind of money farmers are willing to pay.

As for your continuous protestations that illegal immigration is illegal, you're simply begging the question. -- And the question is: do the current U.S. immigration rules -- which prohibit unskilled immigrants from coming to work in America either permanently or temporary -- make sense? I would submit to you that while there is supply of cheap labour south of the border and demand for it in America, keeping the two apart is very much like pissing against the wind.

A sensible solution (aside from encouraging econ. development in Mexico and Central America) would be to institute a temporary work programme to allow Mexicans & Co. to temporarily work low-skill low-pay jobs in the U.S., provided there is a willing employer. The employers would get the cheap labour they want, and the labourers would be able to work legally and go back to Mexico at the end of temporary employment (e.g., harvest season) without fear of not being able to easily cross the border again later. Such an arrangement would also reduce incentives for illegal immigration, as a portion of U.S. demand for cheap labour would have been fulfilled through a temporary work programme. Abuses, such as coming in on a temporary visa and overstaying it, are inevitable, but could be lessened with better tracking of temporary workers & visitors and with threat of harsh penalties (ban on entering the U.S.) for those who break the rules.[/quote]

Ok...now we are moving toward meeting each other in the middle....I agree...some program must be into place to allow them to work in the US legally..as long as their are controls put into place to monitor it...but that is for those coming here to work...if they wish to stay they must go thru the same immigration process that millions have done before them. It is the only way our system can work.....As long as they are here legally for work, then they can be taxed..employers would have to offer benefits in the form of health insurance which would help alleviate the woes that occur in the form of increased costs at ER rooms, etc..etc..

Don't forget some of those people ended up in New Zealand. It's a lot like Australia, except with a social conscience.

Hmm, I don't know much about New Zealand. What's it like?

It's green, got lots of mountains and sheep, no snakes, and the people like ripping the piss out of the Aussies. 8) The Lonely Planet description isn't bad.

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/destinations/australasia/new_zealand/

Australia- the West Island has a better ring. 8)

Yes...keep dreaming. :lol:

Besides we control your largest bank, own much of your national airline and oh yeah let's not forget who is building your 2 frigates and basically controls your defence force (what little of it is left since Helen ditched it)

Say what you like, but at the end of the day, you're still an Aussie. You'll never be able to pronounce the word "six" properly. :lol:

wtf? :?

Listen to an Aussie say the word. It comes out as "seex". :lol:
actually, it comes out as 'sicks'

Are you deaf or Australian?

Umm. I think you've confused new zealand with australia. I don't go around saying sex. It sounds like sicks. In that other country near us they say sex. Well, some of them anyway.

Anyway. Americans can't say Herb or Aunt, and they spell words like colour and honour wrong. Forgive me if youre not American.

Australia- the West Island has a better ring. 8)

Yes...keep dreaming. :lol:

Besides we control your largest bank, own much of your national airline and oh yeah let's not forget who is building your 2 frigates and basically controls your defence force (what little of it is left since Helen ditched it)

Say what you like, but at the end of the day, you're still an Aussie. You'll never be able to pronounce the word "six" properly. :lol:

wtf? :?

Listen to an Aussie say the word. It comes out as "seex". :lol:
actually, it comes out as 'sicks'

Are you deaf or Australian?

Umm. I think you've confused new zealand with australia. I don't go around saying sex. It sounds like sicks. In that other country near us they say sex. Well, some of them anyway.

Anyway. Americans can't say Herb or Aunt, and they spell words like colour and honour wrong. Forgive me if youre not American.

No, I'm a Kiwi, and I know plenty of Aussies. Want some feesh and cheeps? :lol:

Australia- the West Island has a better ring. 8)

Yes...keep dreaming. :lol:

Besides we control your largest bank, own much of your national airline and oh yeah let's not forget who is building your 2 frigates and basically controls your defence force (what little of it is left since Helen ditched it)

Say what you like, but at the end of the day, you're still an Aussie. You'll never be able to pronounce the word "six" properly. :lol:

wtf? :?

Listen to an Aussie say the word. It comes out as "seex". :lol:
actually, it comes out as 'sicks'

Are you deaf or Australian?

Umm. I think you've confused new zealand with australia. I don't go around saying sex. It sounds like sicks. In that other country near us they say sex. Well, some of them anyway.

Anyway. Americans can't say Herb or Aunt, and they spell words like colour and honour wrong. Forgive me if youre not American.

No, I'm a Kiwi, and I know plenty of Aussies. Want some feesh and cheeps? :lol:

Must....Resist....Making....Corny...Sheep....Joke....

Australia- the West Island has a better ring. 8)

Yes...keep dreaming. :lol:

Besides we control your largest bank, own much of your national airline and oh yeah let's not forget who is building your 2 frigates and basically controls your defence force (what little of it is left since Helen ditched it)

Say what you like, but at the end of the day, you're still an Aussie. You'll never be able to pronounce the word "six" properly. :lol:

wtf? :?

Listen to an Aussie say the word. It comes out as "seex". :lol:
actually, it comes out as 'sicks'

Are you deaf or Australian?

Umm. I think you've confused new zealand with australia. I don't go around saying sex. It sounds like sicks. In that other country near us they say sex. Well, some of them anyway.

Anyway. Americans can't say Herb or Aunt, and they spell words like colour and honour wrong. Forgive me if youre not American.

No, I'm a Kiwi, and I know plenty of Aussies. Want some feesh and cheeps? :lol:

Must....Resist....Making....Corny...Sheep....Joke....

You should. Australia has more sheep than New Zealand. 8)

[quote:b22968b7c7="Lawnmowerville"]Australia- the West Island has a better ring. 8)

Yes...keep dreaming. :lol:

Besides we control your largest bank, own much of your national airline and oh yeah let's not forget who is building your 2 frigates and basically controls your defence force (what little of it is left since Helen ditched it)

Say what you like, but at the end of the day, you're still an Aussie. You'll never be able to pronounce the word "six" properly. :lol:

wtf? :?

Listen to an Aussie say the word. It comes out as "seex". :lol:
actually, it comes out as 'sicks'

Are you deaf or Australian?

Umm. I think you've confused new zealand with australia. I don't go around saying sex. It sounds like sicks. In that other country near us they say sex. Well, some of them anyway.

Anyway. Americans can't say Herb or Aunt, and they spell words like colour and honour wrong. Forgive me if youre not American.

No, I'm a Kiwi, and I know plenty of Aussies. Want some feesh and cheeps? :lol:

Must....Resist....Making....Corny...Sheep....Joke....

You should. Australia has more sheep than New Zealand. 8)[/quote:b22968b7c7]

Ahh, but more per head of population than you guys? I have a hunch that NZ wins there.

Australia is the superior nation...the anschluss is coming :twisted:

And then Tasmania or one of the other crappy states will declare independence :shock:

EDIT: Cool, 666 posts. lol.

Australia is the superior nation...the anschluss is coming :twisted:

Yeah, Indonesia is going to invade while you're busy bullying the latest boatload of Afghan refugees...

Australia- the West Island has a better ring. 8)

Yes...keep dreaming. :lol:

Besides we control your largest bank, own much of your national airline and oh yeah let's not forget who is building your 2 frigates and basically controls your defence force (what little of it is left since Helen ditched it)

Say what you like, but at the end of the day, you're still an Aussie. You'll never be able to pronounce the word "six" properly. :lol:

wtf? :?

Listen to an Aussie say the word. It comes out as "seex". :lol:
actually, it comes out as 'sicks'

Are you deaf or Australian?

Umm. I think you've confused new zealand with australia. I don't go around saying sex. It sounds like sicks. In that other country near us they say sex. Well, some of them anyway.

Anyway. Americans can't say Herb or Aunt, and they spell words like colour and honour wrong. Forgive me if youre not American.

Excuse me?...but there is no damn silent "u" in honor and color..and we say it just fine thank you..and I say "herb" with no practice..." H with an erb..now.Aunt I'll grant you a difference...we pronounce it "Ant", leaving the 'u' silent..and it's "Fish...not feesh..Chips.not cheeps"..

It's Friend..not "mate"...unless it's a "classmate"...or naval "first mate"

Excuse me?...but there is no damn silent "u" in honor and color..and we say it just fine thank you..and I say "herb" with no practice..." H with an erb..now.Aunt I'll grant you a difference...we pronounce it "Ant", leaving the 'u' silent..and it's "Fish...not feesh..Chips.not cheeps"..

It's Friend..not "mate"...unless it's a "classmate"...or naval "first mate"

*kills quote pyramid*

Colour/Honour
We got the silent "u" from latin, and its the same in nearly all european languages. Americans just wanted to be different.

Herb
So, you are saying you say "herb" not "erb" or "erbal"? I hope so.

Feesh and Cheeps.
I don't talk like that. I say "fish" and "chips" and so do most other Australians. Anyone who says "feesh" we would give an odd look, at least in the bigger cities.

And whats wrong with our saying mate? Americans invented "pal" "dude" "man" "bro" and "buddy".

It depends if your White or not. But mostly its about as hard as it is to get into any coalition countries seeing as how they have all adopted discriminatin criteria.

Colour/Honour
We got the silent "u" from latin, and its the same in nearly all european languages. Americans just wanted to be different.

Herb
So, you are saying you say "herb" not "erb" or "erbal"? I hope so.

Feesh and Cheeps.
I don't talk like that. I say "fish" and "chips" and so do most other Australians. Anyone who says "feesh" we would give an odd look, at least in the bigger cities.

And whats wrong with our saying mate? Americans invented "pal" "dude" "man" "bro" and "buddy".[/quote]

Last time I looked..American english is a conglomeration of various languages...take for example...interpersonal combat...otherwise known as the French word "melee"...the German word gezundheit..for when a person sneezes...we say "Ciao" from Italy when leaving..when we need a vacation we might use...the Spanish "siesta"..etc.etc....and we'd like to be like Europe..oh that is something to aspire too..we left Europe to BE different..

Last time I looked english in General was a conglomeration of other languages.

we left Europe to BE different..

I thought you guys left Europe to make money for the mother country? lol.

we left Europe to BE different..

I thought you guys left Europe to make money for the mother country? lol.

Well...truth be told..MY People didn't leave Europe..we were the ones the Euro-rejects displaced to become Americans..if anything we left Asia

but wouldnt that also mean you are descended from (God forbid) Russians?

we left Europe to BE different..

I thought you guys left Europe to make money for the mother country? lol.

Well...truth be told..MY People didn't leave Europe..we were the ones the Euro-rejects displaced to become Americans..if anything we left Asia

Oh, yes, the "heathens" who got in the road of the reject europeans making money.

It's interesting that when Australia was colonized, it was basically the same thing.

but wouldnt that also mean you are descended from (God forbid) Russians?

What do you mean "God Forbid"?!?!? I'm part East European! :twisted:

Anyway the Native Americans migrated long before the slavs as an ethnic group were even around, and the Russians didnt get into Siberia until the 1600-1700s.

Just the fact that Salishe would've been in the military during the cold war. So he would have been encouraged to hate the "Godless commies" :twisted:

Just the fact that Salishe would've been in the military during the cold war. So he would have been encouraged to hate the "Godless commies" :twisted:

Ah, well, I'm one of those too.

*Runs*

:lol:

It's funny that a former prison colony would screen it's immigrants so vigorously to keep "horrible" people from entering.

It's funny that a former prison colony would screen it's immigrants so vigorously to keep "horrible" people from entering.

Actually only NSW, QLD, VIC (up to 1840) and TAS (1853) had convicts. The Northern Territory and South Australia were free states...

But it amazes me that Americans are always whinging about illegal mexicans when history has shown white americans love slaves. That, and the USA was Britain's major penal colony pre 1776. Several American colonies were dumping grounds.

Then again...Britain was full of criminals to begin with...the Brits merely sent some of them over here. Australians since are not the criminals - the British who came here were.

Australia is the superior nation...the anschluss is coming :twisted:

Yeah, Indonesia is going to invade while you're busy bullying the latest boatload of Afghan refugees...

No, the US CVBG would swiftly deal with any Indonesian invasion at this time. Should America get embroiled in several conflicts at once, they may be forced to leave us undefended for a bit...

And that's when the Indonesians would strike.


SAY YES TO MORE DEFENCE SPENDING

From a recent (May 18, 2004) Editorial in the Sydney Morning Herald:

The writer Ahmad Shah Abed left Afghanistan to avoid forced recruitment by the Taliban. "They started collecting young lads again and many people were killed," he writes. He is in a psychiatric hospital after three years in detention in Port Hedland. Mary Yousefi, an Iranian secretary still in Baxter after three years, writes: "My son finds it hard to sleep and when he does he has very bad nightmares and wakes up screaming." The journalist Cheikh Kone fled Africa after penning an article critical of the Ivory Coast Government. He spent three years at Port Hedland, and writes: "... we have been painted as criminals and terrorists ... we have been dehumanised and our plight ignored".

These stories come from Another Country, a collection of refugees' writing published this week, giving voices to people usually not heard. They show the consequences of the Federal Government's actions, which were examined in detail in the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission's report on Australia's immigration detention policy regarding children. The commission measured the Government's policies and practices against the United Nations' Convention on the Rights of the Child, to which Australia is a signatory. That convention requires detention of children to be a measure of last resort - Australia uses it as the measure of first resort for all children, irrespective of their individual situation. That detention, the commission says, is "automatic, indeterminate, arbitrary and effectively unreviewable".

Imprisoned children are exposed to riots, fires, hunger strikes, protests, lip-sewing, suicide attempts, tear gas and water cannons. They see razor wire and feel frightened and unsafe. Their health - physical and mental - suffers. The trauma that led them to flee to Australia - 93 per cent of children in detention are eventually granted refugee status - is compounded by their treatment in what they thought would be a haven. "No other country in the world has a policy like this," writes the commission, not in praise. It attacks as mean-spirited and destructive a Federal Government policy which goes way beyond the stated aim of border protection.

The Federal Government justifies its approach, and maintains a level of support for it, in two ways. It states that the Government should decide who is allowed to enter the country. But it also ensures Australians are ill informed about who these refugees are. Detention centres are placed in deserts and on remote islands; it denies access to most visitors and to the media; and uses terms such as "illegals" and "queue-jumpers".

But reports such as the commission's, and books like Another Country, provide an alternative view - that asylum seekers are people rather than numbers, that Australia provides punishment rather than refuge, and that children detained suffer enormously. Overhauling detention laws and practices regarding children, as the commission recommends, is the starting point for a reassessment of Australia's treatment of asylum seekers.

SOURCE.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/05/17/1084783451113.html?from=storylhs

COMMENT.
Many Australians are disgusted at the Howard Governments treatment of refugees. To treat people fleeing from oppression in nations like the Taliban-controlled Afghanistan as criminals is beyond belief. To incarerate children behind razor-wire is unforgiveable. To spend enormous sums to "process" these people in Nauru etc so as to avoid them having access to legal representation is both wasteful and immoral.
Say yes to more compassion.

[quote:c5530fc96a="Lord Pheonix Benicius"][quote:c5530fc96a="Lawnmowerville"]Australia- the West Island has a better ring. 8)

Yes...keep dreaming. :lol:

Besides we control your largest bank, own much of your national airline and oh yeah let's not forget who is building your 2 frigates and basically controls your defence force (what little of it is left since Helen ditched it)

Say what you like, but at the end of the day, you're still an Aussie. You'll never be able to pronounce the word "six" properly. :lol:

wtf? :?

Listen to an Aussie say the word. It comes out as "seex". :lol:
actually, it comes out as 'sicks'

Are you deaf or Australian?

Umm. I think you've confused new zealand with australia. I don't go around saying sex. It sounds like sicks. In that other country near us they say sex. Well, some of them anyway.

Anyway. Americans can't say Herb or Aunt, and they spell words like colour and honour wrong. Forgive me if youre not American.

No, I'm a Kiwi, and I know plenty of Aussies. Want some feesh and cheeps? :lol:

Must....Resist....Making....Corny...Sheep....Joke....

You should. Australia has more sheep than New Zealand. 8)[/quote:c5530fc96a]

Ahh, but more per head of population than you guys? I have a hunch that NZ wins there.[/quote:c5530fc96a]

Oh boy...Tasman rivalry. Seriously. Australia is the best. Let's move on aye. :D

http://maddox.xmission.com/hatemail.cgi?p=1#CLUETRAIN

http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=walmart

When you're poor, hungry and hopeless you aren't going to give two shits about breaking a law. From my understanding of the american immigration, it's pretty hard getting to america legally from mexico, might be wrong though.

Well..if you don't care bout my nation's policy then don't be upset when we sweep them up and drop them on their side of the border. And it's not hard if you go thru the legitimate process...may take awhile but that is irrevelent..it's the law....want to be a criminal..then come here illegally.

They are Mexican citizens..if their situation in Mexico is bad..then clean up your own house..don't come shitting in mine just because you don't like the smell in your own yard.

Imagine for a second..and I'm going to use our English brethren as an example..your country is consistently flooded with French-speaking individuals who refuse to learn english..who take up your valuable resources....who have no insurance because of the jobs they take, therefore they flood your Emergency rooms and demand treatment, thereby driving up the costs for emergency rooms in every hospital. To add insult they pay no taxes thereby the costs of these illegal frenchmen fall square on the back of your hard-working honest englishmen..how would they feel?

Uh isn't that already happening???

[quote:031ed87a98="Lawnmowerville"][quote:031ed87a98="Lord Pheonix Benicius"][quote:031ed87a98="Lawnmowerville"]Australia- the West Island has a better ring. 8)

Yes...keep dreaming. :lol:

Besides we control your largest bank, own much of your national airline and oh yeah let's not forget who is building your 2 frigates and basically controls your defence force (what little of it is left since Helen ditched it)

Say what you like, but at the end of the day, you're still an Aussie. You'll never be able to pronounce the word "six" properly. :lol:

wtf? :?

Listen to an Aussie say the word. It comes out as "seex". :lol:
actually, it comes out as 'sicks'

Are you deaf or Australian?

Umm. I think you've confused new zealand with australia. I don't go around saying sex. It sounds like sicks. In that other country near us they say sex. Well, some of them anyway.

Anyway. Americans can't say Herb or Aunt, and they spell words like colour and honour wrong. Forgive me if youre not American.

No, I'm a Kiwi, and I know plenty of Aussies. Want some feesh and cheeps? :lol:

Must....Resist....Making....Corny...Sheep....Joke....

You should. Australia has more sheep than New Zealand. 8)[/quote:031ed87a98]

Ahh, but more per head of population than you guys? I have a hunch that NZ wins there.[/quote:031ed87a98]

Oh boy...Tasman rivalry. Seriously. Australia is the best. Let's move on aye. :D[/quote:031ed87a98]

Seriously? No.

You assholes, Trim your quotes.

LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:

Australia and NZ are both great. There...let us move on...

Please. Or I shall be forced to make a sheep joke...or 10 :wink:

LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:

Australia and NZ are both great. There...let us move on...

Please. Or I shall be forced to make a sheep joke...or 10 :wink:

Well, I suppose there are a few things we can agree on... At least we're not Poms or Yanks. :lol:

LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:

Australia and NZ are both great. There...let us move on...

Please. Or I shall be forced to make a sheep joke...or 10 :wink:

Well, I suppose there are a few things we can agree on... At least we're not Poms or Yanks. :lol:

Too right mate.