NationStates Jolt Archive

As I was searching for information on anarchism, I made a horrifying discovery. Apparently, the Marquis de Sade was anarchist. Now I am confronted with the choice of suicide or creating an entirely new ideology from scratch.

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"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" Matthew 19:24
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

I also hear he liked big butts...

Ha! All your will to live are belong to us!

Hey man, if you're looking for a philosophy, scene, idea, thing you enjoy that has zero dumbasses who also follow/enjoy/believe in, you're bone. Ain't gonna happen. Even dumbasses now and then stumble on good ideas/things/movements/scenes/etc.

(not neccisarily endorsing or denouncing anarchism specifically, just solidarity-I hate most other jazz fans, classical music listeners, racing fans, etc. It just happens.)

ofcourse :oops:

"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" Matthew 19:24


God that hurts Matthew.


Well I took the Where in Hell are you Going test. And I'm doomed to the ninth level.

Searching for info on anarchism and accidentally stumbling on the fine Marquis de Sade? Yeah right!! More likely you were looking for some S&M stories and next stumbled on a bio of the good Marquis. :wink:

*certain it is only a matter of days before Letila posts his first "What is your fav S&M ritual?" poll... :lol:

Searching for info on anarchism and accidentally stumbling on the fine Marquis de Sade? Yeah right!! More likely you were looking for some S&M stories and next stumbled on a bio of the good Marquis.

Can you at least try to be serious? I am having a serious crisis here.

-----------------------------------------
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" Matthew 19:24
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

Searching for info on anarchism and accidentally stumbling on the fine Marquis de Sade? Yeah right!! More likely you were looking for some S&M stories and next stumbled on a bio of the good Marquis.

Can you at least try to be serious? I am having a serious crisis here.

-----------------------------------------
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" Matthew 19:24
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

I am always serious :)

Can you at least try to be serious? I am having a serious crisis here.


Have you actually read anything written by the Marquis de Sade, or are you just condemning & rejecting him out of hand? I found "A Passionate Philosopher: A Marquis de Sade Reader" edited by Margaret Crossland a useful introduction. He stands as a precursor to both Freud and Nietzshe, and his influence on the surrealist movement (and indeed many of the threads that grew out of it) cannot be sidelined.

Have you actually read anything written by the Marquis de Sade, or are you just condemning & rejecting him out of hand? I found "A Passionate Philosopher: A Marquis de Sade Reader" edited by Margaret Crossland a useful introduction. He stands as a precursor to both Freud and Nietzshe, and his influence on the surrealist movement (and indeed many of the threads that grew out of it) cannot be sidelined.

He was a cruel monster. That's enough for me.

-----------------------------------------
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" Matthew 19:24
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

He was a cruel monster. That's enough for me.


I suppose an example of his actual cruelty would be too much to ask for?

Similarly: do a person's actions automatically discredit all their other opinions?

Calm down, dude. You're like, what, 18? I seriously doubt that because you have to abandon this political philosophy that renders the rest of your life null and void. Besides, Nixon was a Quaker, but that doesn't mean the whole Quaker faith is wrong.

Have you actually read anything written by the Marquis de Sade, or are you just condemning & rejecting him out of hand? I found "A Passionate Philosopher: A Marquis de Sade Reader" edited by Margaret Crossland a useful introduction. He stands as a precursor to both Freud and Nietzshe, and his influence on the surrealist movement (and indeed many of the threads that grew out of it) cannot be sidelined.

He was a cruel monster. That's enough for me.

-----------------------------------------
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" Matthew 19:24
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpgLetila, Micheal Dukakis was a liberal. Stalin was a communist. War criminal General Kitchener was British. None of them make me ashamed to be from where I'm from or to believe in what I believe. Every group has its share of demons.

Letila, Micheal Dukakis was a liberal. Stalin was a communist. War criminal General Kitchener was British. None of them make me ashamed to be from where I'm from or to believe in what I believe. Every group has its share of demons.

Actually, Stalin was state capitalist. Being a certain nationality isn't the same as holding certain views. I never heard of Dukakis, though.

-----------------------------------------
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" Matthew 19:24
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

Whatever.

Letila, Micheal Dukakis was a liberal. Stalin was a communist. War criminal General Kitchener was British. None of them make me ashamed to be from where I'm from or to believe in what I believe. Every group has its share of demons.

Actually, Stalin was state capitalist. Being a certain nationality isn't the same as holding certain views. I never heard of Dukakis, though.My point is, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. You don't expect anarchism to magicly enrich everyone who comes into contact with it do you? Similarly, you don't think that being an anarchist, that means you're going to become a pervert to the same order as sade, right? So what are you worrying about?

"Oh no, I can't be a vegetarian, Hitler was a vegetarian!!"

Every group has its share of demons.

I agree with the thrust of your statement, but can we at least have some evidence that de Sade was a demon*, rather than just a sexual fantasist, please?




*ie. that he did evil things to people without their consent, not that he was one of your actual demons with horns and pointy tail. Obviously...

About the eye of the needle, there was a gate in Jerusalem i think that was called that because, if i am correct, it was made so camels could not fir though it, a small gate, not a sowing needle.

i'd say find a new idealogy, make youre own, call it something that ends in "cy" or "isim"(example: democracy,socialisim) and you have a government idealogy/government style.

I agree with the thrust of your statement, but can we at least have some evidence that de Sade was a demon*, rather than just a sexual fantasist, please?




*ie. that he did evil things to people without their consent, not that he was one of your actual demons with horns and pointy tail. Obviously...

Didn't he get off torturing people?

-----------------------------------------
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" Matthew 19:24
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

Didn't he get off torturing people?


*ie. that he did evil things to people without their consent, not that he was one of your actual demons with horns and pointy tail. Obviously...

*ie. that he did evil things to people without their consent, not that he was one of your actual demons with horns and pointy tail. Obviously...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't torturing people non-consensual?

-----------------------------------------
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" Matthew 19:24
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't torturing people non-consensual?


By definition yes, but do you have enough knowledge about de Sade to make this claim, or are you just reacting to image of him as Bogeyman?

By definition yes, but do you have enough knowledge about de Sade to make this claim, or are you just reacting to image of him as Bogeyman?

I'm pretty sure I do, unless everything I know about his is dead wrong.

-----------------------------------------
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" Matthew 19:24
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

Um....De Sade is an important contributor to the idea as the the writer as 'questioner' of current society. Sure he was a debauched nutter....but he was also aware that the his age was going to mold the progression of western civilisation. Hence he attempted to outrage to set new boundries for the new society.

He wrote most if not all his really hard core stuff while he was in prison to stop himself going mad.

By definition yes, but do you have enough knowledge about de Sade to make this claim, or are you just reacting to image of him as Bogeyman?

I'm pretty sure I do, unless everything I know about his is dead wrong.


I'll ask again then, as you consider yourself sufficiently informed: could you provide one specific example of an outrage he committed?

I'll ask again then, as you consider yourself sufficiently informed: could you provide one specific example of an outrage he committed?

I don't know specific examples. It's just common knowledge that he did that stuff.

-----------------------------------------
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" Matthew 19:24
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

By definition yes, but do you have enough knowledge about de Sade to make this claim, or are you just reacting to image of him as Bogeyman?

I'm pretty sure I do, unless everything I know about his is dead wrong.


I'll ask again then, as you consider yourself sufficiently informed: could you provide one specific example of an outrage he committed?

Um yeah - he was known to treat his whores rather roughly and had been banned from a number of brothels in Paris....but not a raving nutcase like some seem to think....

I'll ask again then, as you consider yourself sufficiently informed: could you provide one specific example of an outrage he committed?

I don't know specific examples. It's just common knowledge that he did that stuff.


Common knowledge is like common sense - often it is neither common nor sense... wouldn't it be sensible to do some investigation of the facts before launching into a tirade?

You know... anarchism, thinking for yourself, questioning accepted social mores - all that malarky?

By definition yes, but do you have enough knowledge about de Sade to make this claim, or are you just reacting to image of him as Bogeyman?

I'm pretty sure I do, unless everything I know about his is dead wrong.


I'll ask again then, as you consider yourself sufficiently informed: could you provide one specific example of an outrage he committed?

Um yeah - he was known to treat his whores rather roughly and had been banned from a number of brothels in Paris....but not a raving nutcase like some seem to think....

We will add the beating/whipping and subsequent short-term confinement of the chambermaid Rose Keller to the list. Unacceptable, yes, the stuff of monsters, probably not - at least not by the standards of his contemporaries in the French nobility.

The poisoning of the two prostitutes that he is also condemned for appears to be closer to an accident involving an aphrodisiac than callous cold-blooded murder...

By definition yes, but do you have enough knowledge about de Sade to make this claim, or are you just reacting to image of him as Bogeyman?

I'm pretty sure I do, unless everything I know about his is dead wrong.


I'll ask again then, as you consider yourself sufficiently informed: could you provide one specific example of an outrage he committed?

Um yeah - he was known to treat his whores rather roughly and had been banned from a number of brothels in Paris....but not a raving nutcase like some seem to think....

We will add the beating/whipping and subsequent short-term confinement of the chambermaid Rose Keller to the list. Unacceptable, yes, the stuff of monsters, probably not - at least not by the standards of his contemporaries in the French nobility.

The poisoning of the two prostitutes that he is also condemned for appears to be closer to an accident involving an aphrodisiac than callous cold-blooded murder...

Well there was alot bad stuff running up to the Communards.....and I don't think we want to go anywhere near the 'Mob'.....

We will add the beating/whipping and subsequent short-term confinement of the chambermaid Rose Keller to the list. Unacceptable, yes, the stuff of monsters, probably not - at least not by the standards of his contemporaries in the French nobility.

I don't want people saying things like "there goes Letila. He's an anarchist like the Marquis de Sade". Girls won't go out with me, for one thing.

-----------------------------------------
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" Matthew 19:24
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

I don't want people saying things like "there goes Letila. He's an anarchist like the Marquis de Sade". Girls won't go out with me, for one thing.

You might be surprised...

We will add the beating/whipping and subsequent short-term confinement of the chambermaid Rose Keller to the list. Unacceptable, yes, the stuff of monsters, probably not - at least not by the standards of his contemporaries in the French nobility.

I don't want people saying things like "there goes Letila. He's an anarchist like the Marquis de Sade". Girls won't go out with me, for one thing.Comeon, Letila, you didn't even know that he was an anarchist til the other day, it seems pretty unlikely that anyone will just happen to find out.

You might be surprised...

What are you talking about?

-----------------------------------------
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" Matthew 19:24
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" Matthew 19:24


God that hurts Matthew.


Well I took the Where in Hell are you Going test. And I'm doomed to the ninth level.

"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" Matthew 19:24


God that hurts Matthew.


Well I took the Where in Hell are you Going test. And I'm doomed to the ninth level.

Of course, the eye of the needle refered to here is not an actual eye of a needle, but rather a small gateway in the walls of Jerusalem, through which it is just possible to squeeze a camel...

That sounds better.

Ooh, another political movement based on pseudo-intellectuals bites the dust. Tragic. Why won't people come to understand that society is flawed at the core, and that no matter how amazing the system we create, it can only exist as long as the will exists to keep it as-is. Which history has shown, never happens.

Anarchism can never work!

Letila, you should convert to Monetarist Fascism. Thatcherite economic principles and authoritarian nationalism.

Time to put up interest rates and control money supply to reduce demand and control inflation.

Too bad for those who go out of business and go bankrupt. If there is lots of unemployment then it should be an incentive for everyone to work harder and save more.

:twisted:

Searching for info on anarchism and accidentally stumbling on the fine Marquis de Sade? Yeah right!! More likely you were looking for some S&M stories and next stumbled on a bio of the good Marquis.

Can you at least try to be serious? I am having a serious crisis here.

-----------------------------------------
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" Matthew 19:24
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg
Good. Your penitence shall consist of 20 lashes and 40 Pater Nosters :twisted:

Could someone explain who the Marquis de Sade is/was.

Could someone explain who the Marquis de Sade is/was.
Here is a biography of the so called "divine marquis":


The most infamous writer in the history of French literature, who occasionally has been hailed as "the freest spirit who has ever existed." Marquis de Sade published erotic writings, that gave rise to the term sadism - enjoyment of cruelty, which first made it into a dictionary in 1834. His works have been seen as exploration of sexual and political freedom, and on the other hand he was a multiple rapist, torturer, and proto-murderer. In his 'Idées sur les romans' (1800) de Sade writes that the essence of novelistic representation lies in the writer's incestuous relationship with nature. To be true to this relationship is to eschew all limitations, and exceed the bounds of convention and knowledge.

Donatien Alphonse François de Sade was born in Paris into an aristocratic family. He was the only surviving child of Jean-Baptiste de Sade and his wife Marie-Eléonore de Maillé, a distant cousin of the Prince de Conde. His family had been ennobled in the 12th century and remained a major power-broker in the southern region of Provence. Aged four, de Sade was sent to Avignon into the care of his uncle, Abbe de Sade, whose sexual life was notoriously irregular. After this period de Sade attended the Jesuit college of Louis Le Grand.

From the age of 14 to 26 de Sade was in active military service, and participated in the Seven Years War. He married in 1763 Renée-Pélagie de Montreuil, the daughter of a high-ranking bourgeois family, but also began an affair with an actress and invited prostitutes to his house. In 1768 he held a prostitute called Rose Keller captive and abused her. The chief of the Paris vice squad warned brothels of de Sade - he was considered a mortal threat to prostitutes. In the following years de Sade was found guilty of all kinds of sexual crimes, and he managed to anger Mme. de Montreuil, his mother-in-law by seducting her younger daughter, Anne-Prospre, when she was visiting his medieval fortress at La Coste in Provence. The unabated de Sade had an orgy.

At Aix in 1772 de Sade received the penalty of death for an unnatural crime and poisoning, but escaped to Italy with his valet Latour. After arrest he was excluded from Paris and sent to his wife's family home in Normandy. At La Coste de Sade continued to arrange orgies from 1773 to 1777 - he had hired a harem of young girls as sexual slaves. After continuous scandals and charges de Sade was arrested and sent to round tour of 27 years in prisons, which started in the dungeon of Vincennes on February 13, 1777. Propably his imprisonment had been arranged by Mme. de Montreuil, whom he remembered in his writings: "Oh, powers from Hell, grant me Nero’s wish, that all women have but one head and that this head belong to the shrew who tyrannizes me; then grant me the pleasure of chopping it off!" At Vicennes he was sometimes fed through the bars of his cage, but he also wanted to keep up some standards and wrote in a letter: "Send me a little prune-colored redingote, with suede vest and trousers, something fresh and light but most specifically not made out of linen; as for the other costume, make it Paris Mud in hue with a few silver trimmings, but definitely not silver braid." To overcome boredom he started to write sexually graphic novels and plays.

After escape de Sade was transferred in 1784 to Bastille in Paris, where he had a large room sixteen feet in diameter. In the new surroundings he wrote LES JOURNÉES DE SODOME, an underground classic over a hundred years. He was released from insane asylum at Charenton on April 2, 1790. Renée-Pélagie obtained a divorce. Next year, at the age of 51, de Sade published JUSTINE. Somehow de Sade survived through the years of the French Revolution, although many other aristocrats were executed. Perhaps the rage of the Revolution saw only itself in the activities of de Sade. To secure his freedom and property he wrote a eulogy of Marat, and got elected secretary of his district in Paris. In 1801 he was again arrested and sent to Charenton, where he began to work a 10-volume novel, Crimes of Passion. During this period he also stage plays in the asylum. His last days de Sade spent under the control of an ex-abbé. After his death on December 2, 1814 his elder son burned his last and other manuscripts. de Sade's grave was later desecrated when his skull was taken for pseudo-scientific measurements.

Thanks for that! :D