NationStates Jolt Archive

I have seen many references in many political articles and forum debates which refer to certain individuals like Rumsfeld and Bremer as Neo-Conservatives.
The debate that exists in this thread is to understand and define, to answer the questions below:-

1. What is the basic ideology of Neo-Conservatism?
2, What has motivated and caused its growth in politics?

Good luck.

I'm offering a comprehensive definition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism_(United_States)) in order for the unsure to reference.

Neo-Conservatism is a social pollution which serves no purpose. Its followers need our love & support to evolve beyond such an unhappy ideology.

Neo-conservatism appears to be a revival of fascism.

Neo-Conservatism is something that brings out the unliberal part of 'liberals'.

TG is absolutely right.

-----------------------------------------
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the neo-con manifesto is found here: http://www.newamericancentury.org/

Is there such thing as a neo-liberal? :?: :?

Is there such thing as a neo-liberal? :?: :?

Haven't heard the term, but maybe it's a concept worth looking at.

Maybe a "Neo-Lib" is a Liberal who's sick & tired of being kicked around by Neo-Cons and is loudly fighting back - it's certainly about time we did!

Never mind any "manifestos" or book definitions. It's simple:
A Neoconservative is a liberal Republican under the control of the Mossad. Neocons love fighting wars for Israel while their own borders are invaded.
They're also committed secularists who pretend to be "following God's will" in order to rile up the evangelical "Christian Zionists." There is nothing conservative about neocons except some of them pretend to be fiscally responsible, just like Bush's carefully crafted booming budget. :roll:
They are very good at deceiving people, however.

The entire neocon Bush Administration is determined to destroy America.

The entire neocon Bush Administration is determined to destroy America.

As much as I disagree with neocon strategy, I don't believe they are determined to destroy America. I think their policies are inadequate, poorly thought out, and not in the best interests of our country, but I can hardly believe they have a willful intent to destroy our country.

I picture it more along the lines of 2 people going at the same goal from entirely opposite ends. I also picture that their way has too many dead ends to actually achieve the final goal.

The entire neocon Bush Administration is determined to destroy America.

As much as I disagree with neocon strategy, I don't believe they are determined to destroy America. I think their policies are inadequate, poorly thought out, and not in the best interests of our country, but I can hardly believe they have a willful intent to destroy our country.

I picture it more along the lines of 2 people going at the same goal from entirely opposite ends. I also picture that their way has too many dead ends to actually achieve the final goal.

You're probably right about Bush himself- he's too weak and just a figurehead for who really controls America. Neoconservatism is a purely judaic occurence. You're underestimating the power of say Perle or Wolfowitz who have worked behind the scenes to create wars and have forced a distorted form of McCarthyism- pledge full support to Israel or be branded an anti-Semite and be destroyed by the media and face punishment with government hiding under their
PATRIOT Acts. When America is weakened, the neocons benefit as Zionists can gain more power over her.

Neo-Con politics is a paradox. While they claim to want to preserve "American Values" such as the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, their policies seek to promote active change in the very fabric of American society and alter it to better suit their own vision of what America "should be". In protecting the Constitution, they dismantle it. To secure freedom, they limit it. To promote peace, they wage war on it. All the time, they imagine themselves to be the final repository of all that is good, virtuous and "right" in the world. To acheive their goals and actualize their vision, they are willing to trample not only on those who would stand against them, but even those that would question them.

Countries must change, as any living entity must. They must grow and become something new, over time, or they risk becoming complacent and fragile, out of touch with both themselves and the world around them. This leads to their eventual dissolution or impotency. However, those changes must build upon the strengths of the past and promote them in the future. It is a dangerous business to willingly ignore the initial intent of the country in favor of a personal agenda or vision.

neocons wouldn't be so bad, if they weren't so rooted in trotsky.

basically, you got proud americans who acknowledge the fact that america is the strongest, wealthiest, and most successful nation in the history of the universe, but want these qualities spread throughout the world. so, like the soviets, they're out ensuring their brand of civilization takes root the world over.

they're big-government types, who reject classical american values -- such as limited government -- while holding on to other classical american values -- such as NOT allowing whores to hack their children to death before they're "technically born".

i don't guess they're really dangerous. they only piss off hippies because they're not genocidal commies. conservative americans don't like them either, but that's just cause they perpetuate the bastardization of america.

but in today's political arena, the choice is only between them and the national socialists. so, conservatives have no choice but to vote for bush, lest nazis like kerry come to power.

it's a vicious cycle.

Not a neo-con, but come on people, get a grip. :roll:

(I see a reasonable voice has entered the thread. Berkylvania, thanks for not just saying they are a bunch of facist Jews.)

Again, I am not a neo-con.

A good overview of the movement: http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/neocon101.html

The neocons are heavily influanced by religious morality. They are very idealistic, and see almost every thing in black and white morality. They believe the US is a morally superior idea.

Here are some Neocon stands:
Want the US to be the world's unchallenged superpower
Share unwavering support for Israel
Support American unilateral action
Support preemptive strikes to remove perceived threats to US security
Promote the development of an American empire
Equate American power with the potential for world peace
Seek to democratize the Arab world
Push regime change in states deemed threats to the US or its allies

http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/quiz/neoconQuiz.html


And the Neo-liberals are the more moderate liberals like Clinton and Blair.

Yes, the Neo-Conservatives want to destroy America... which is why most of them are former liberals who became disillusioned with the Left's communist apologizing. Please. The Left is just as "Judaic" as the Neo-Conservatives: ever heard of Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, etc.? The fact is Jews, like all people, hold divergent opinions. Anti-Semites are absolutely ridiculous; Jews are somehow simultaneously capitalists and communists, internationalists and Israeli nationalists. Basically they're anything their opponents dislike. What Neo-Conservatives seek to protect is Western civilization--which, yes, includes Israel. Whether they're going about it rightly or wrongly is debatable. Personally I don't see how the Iraq war benefitted Israel at all; it merely inflamed tensions. And if this Republican administration is all a Jewish conspiracy, why do so many Jews vote Democrat?

Neo Cons are formerly left leaning conservatives who migrated to the right. :idea:

Neo Cons are formerly left leaning conservatives who migrated to the right. :idea:

huh? left leaning conservative?

The only definition that works in is that of Brezhnevite Russians in the 1980's. I couldn't apply it to modern neo-cons i'm afraid.

Neo Cons are formerly left leaning conservatives who migrated to the right. :idea:

huh? left leaning conservative?

The only definition that works in is that of Brezhnevite Russians in the 1980's. I couldn't apply it to modern neo-cons i'm afraid.

You think that conservatism is only a right wing phenomenon? :shock:

Neo Cons are formerly left leaning conservatives who migrated to the right. :idea:

huh? left leaning conservative?

The only definition that works in is that of Brezhnevite Russians in the 1980's. I couldn't apply it to modern neo-cons i'm afraid.

You think that conservatism is only a right wing phenomenon? :shock:

Among liberal democracies it is, as they are inherently right wing.

Neo Cons are formerly left leaning conservatives who migrated to the right. :idea:

huh? left leaning conservative?

The only definition that works in is that of Brezhnevite Russians in the 1980's. I couldn't apply it to modern neo-cons i'm afraid.

You think that conservatism is only a right wing phenomenon? :shock:

Among liberal democracies it is, as they are inherently right wing.

Oookay....

Neo Cons are formerly left leaning conservatives who migrated to the right. :idea:

huh? left leaning conservative?

The only definition that works in is that of Brezhnevite Russians in the 1980's. I couldn't apply it to modern neo-cons i'm afraid.

You think that conservatism is only a right wing phenomenon? :shock:

Among liberal democracies it is, as they are inherently right wing.

Oookay....

What's wrong with that statement? It's true. You can't call any of the modern liberal democracies left wing. They are centrist at best (eg. Europe).

Neo Cons are formerly left leaning conservatives who migrated to the right. :idea:

huh? left leaning conservative?

The only definition that works in is that of Brezhnevite Russians in the 1980's. I couldn't apply it to modern neo-cons i'm afraid.

You think that conservatism is only a right wing phenomenon? :shock:

Among liberal democracies it is, as they are inherently right wing.

Oookay....

What's wrong with that statement? It's true. You can't call any of the modern liberal democracies left wing. They are centrist at best (eg. Europe).

Firstly, you ran off with the concept of 'left' to an extreme, if not off the map, to communism. Now this...

con·ser·va·tism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-sûrv-tzm)
n.
The inclination, especially in politics, to maintain the existing or traditional order.

A political philosophy or attitude emphasizing respect for traditional institutions, distrust of government activism, and opposition to sudden change in the established order.

Conservatism The principles and policies of the Conservative Party in the United Kingdom or of the Progressive Conservative Party in Canada.

Caution or moderation, as in behavior or outlook.

I dunno i dont know to much about it....last I checked i was some where in the middle
:?

TG is absolutely right.

So it was said, and so it shall be. What were we discussing again...[looks at talking points]...oh, yes George Bush is the second coming of Hitler and HalliCheney is his SS.

TG is absolutely right.

So it was said, and so it shall be. What were we discussing again...[looks at talking points]...oh, yes George Bush is the second coming of Hitler and HalliCheney is his SS.

And Clinton and Blair are the second comings of Mao Tse Tung and Pol Pot.

:roll:

Get a grip, and engae your brain before you regurgitate the mouthings of Moore, Franken, Rush, Fox, and the other mindless, lying, idiot, soundbitters. (Yes, M. Moore and Al Franken are just as big of lying idiotic soundbitter as Rush and Fox News. Smack them all, and turn off the radio and TV!)

(I see a reasonable voice has entered the thread. Berkylvania, thanks for not just saying they are a bunch of facist Jews.)

You're more than welcome. I had no idea that they were even viewed as facist Jews. How interesting? They'd be much more easily dismissed if they were.

Unfortunately, I think they're are a danger, though, just as Neo-Liberals are a danger. The complete and utter polarization of these two camps leads them both to direct attacks on the very essence of the United States. Neither side is capable of empathy for the majority of individuals and this makes them a threat, particularly to a government which is supposed to be at the will and service of the people. They have both confused short term political goals with the overriding spirit of our Nation and have sacrificed the values that have bonded us together as a country to advance their highly individualized concepts of the nation they require.

Liberalisim and Conservativisim are two sides of the same coin. Neither one is a true political philosophy, but simply an individual reflexive reaction to change and growth in a society. They are both needed to ensure that, while society and government continues to be valid and serve the interests of the people, it doesn't grow and change so completely that it is unrecognizable or uncontrollable. The Neo-Cons and the Neo-Libs, however, are much more absolute in their approach and have no compunction about destroying their rivals in order to advance their goals. It becomes less about creating a society that allows for the expression of the rights and liberties that all Americans should hold dear and more about beating your opponent because, in triumph, your personal view is validated.

I have no problem with conservatives, even though I admit that my personal reaction to change and situations would fall into the "very liberal" category (whatever that actually means). However, I see both Neo-Cons and Neo-Libs as a very clear and present danger to not only myself and those I care about, but to the life of the country that I love and hold dear. Neither one embodies the spirit of America, the sense of egalitarianisim and compromise and freedom that our forefathers envisioned for this country and many brave men and women have went to their deaths for. They must both be exposed for the insideous extremes that they are and purged so that we may once again hold our heads up high as U.S. citizens who not only believe in freedom and liberty (even when it's not our own) but are willing to fight on many battlefronts to defend it.

I don't know if I fall into neocon or not... I'm somewhere between conservative, libertarian, and neo-conservative.... I'm a neo-republitarian :P

Bill Kristol is a cool guy, and up until now, I had no idea he was any different from the other conservatives in the media. Apparently, he's the chairmen of PNAC.

TG is absolutely right.

So it was said, and so it shall be. What were we discussing again...[looks at talking points]...oh, yes George Bush is the second coming of Hitler and HalliCheney is his SS.

And Clinton and Blair are the second comings of Mao Tse Tung and Pol Pot.

:roll:

Get a grip, and engae your brain before you regurgitate the mouthings of Moore, Franken, Rush, Fox, and the other mindless, lying, idiot, soundbitters. (Yes, M. Moore and Al Franken are just as big of lying idiotic soundbitter as Rush and Fox News. Smack them all, and turn off the radio and TV!)LOL Is it any wonder that it is impossible for these guys to talk about issues, without cracking jokes and lies? The only liberal I like is Alan Colmes (sp)....

...but half those idiots on air america are former SNL stars, for obvious reasons.

(I see a reasonable voice has entered the thread. Berkylvania, thanks for not just saying they are a bunch of facist Jews.)

You're more than welcome. I had no idea that they were even viewed as facist Jews. How interesting? They'd be much more easily dismissed if they were.

Both TG and Letilia said the NCs were facist a few posts up from your post. And some others were trying to say NCism was "a purely judaic" movement under Mossad/Israeli control.

LOL Is it any wonder that it is impossible for these guys to talk about issues, without cracking jokes and lies? The only liberal I like is Alan Colmes (sp)....

...but half those idiots on air america are former SNL stars, for obvious reasons.

Yep. But the right is equally bad (note the inclusion of Rush and Fox).
I am soooo glad Japanese radio is borning.

Both TG and Letilia said the NCs were facist a few posts up from your post. And some others were trying to say NCism was "a purely judaic" movement under Mossad/Israeli control.

The part about Jewish control sounds too neo-nazish to be taken seriously.

-----------------------------------------
"Beside him is a beautiful androgyne called SWITCH, aiming a large gun at Neo."--Script of The Matrix (I love The Matrix, but that is still funny.)
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
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yeah well I'd have to say alot of neo cons could be or were democrats etc. and that wikipedia was a good definition. Its also somewhat fascist yes. I'm old school I guess we talkin limited government/small and non interventionist policy and of course I also have some tough stances that are just not liberal and then others that I am. I lean in favor of old school. No foreign aid either and tight borders good defense lots of freedom no patriot act no socialism all things neo cons don't stand for

Both TG and Letilia said the NCs were facist a few posts up from your post. And some others were trying to say NCism was "a purely judaic" movement under Mossad/Israeli control.

The part about Jewish control sounds too neo-nazish to be taken seriously.



Well its quite obvious that EVERYTHING the neocon does serves some purpose in Jewish agenda. The media is completely dominated by Jews who are always crying about how a Palestinian blew up their occupiers, the Israelis. The Jews have de-Christianized America using their ACLU and
Anti- Defamation League of B'nai B'rith. Michael Newdow is no atheist. He is a God-hating Talmud-worshipping Jew. Homosexuality and racial integration have been forced on decent people by the Jews at the GLAAD founded by gay Jew Harvey Fierstein. Jew Eisner hosts Gay Days at Disney, a once family-oriented company. Abe Foxman censors parts of the Gospels from The Passion at the wave of a Jewish hand. They have one standard for Israel and another for the rest of the civilized world. Israel commits genocide while we must allow waves of illegal immigrants in from Mexico. If its good for their tribe, that's all that matters.

If this sounds "neo-nazish" , then perhaps you need a reality check as its all true facts.

[/quote]
The media is completely dominated by Jews who are always crying about how a Palestinian blew up their occupiers, the Israelis. The Jews have de-Christianized America using their ACLU and
Anti- Defamation League of B'nai B'rith. [/quote]

Really? In the UK the media is anti-Israel. I just think that every country's media has chosen a side, and America's chosen Israel (which is the right side, in my opinion). That doesn't mean it's controlled by the Jews like we're living in some screwed up "Mein Kempf" come-to-life conspiracy relaity. Hitler is dead. Move on.

[/quote]
Well its quite obvious that EVERYTHING the neocon does serves some purpose in Jewish agenda.
Homosexuality and racial integration have been forced on decent people by the Jews. [/quote]

....... Becuase that's what the conservatives and the neo-cons want.... yeah..... which is Why the bush admin (conservative/ neo-con) is trying for a gay-marriage ban.... I think yr a little confused.

[/quote]
They have one standard for Israel and another for the rest of the civilized world. Israel commits genocide while we must allow waves of illegal immigrants in from Mexico.
If this sounds "neo-nazish" , then perhaps you need a reality check as its all true facts.[/quote]

Israel's comitting no worse genocide than the Palestinians are or would try to do if they could. During WW2, the Palestinian leader (Arrafat's granfather, actually) made a deal with Hitler that once he'd won the war and killed all the Jews in Europe he would take German troops to Palestine and kill all the Jews there. At leats the Israelis aren't exterminating the Palestinians.

I fail to see the connection between the Jews and Mexico, unless u believe in all that "Lost Tribe" nonsense....

And who says "racial integration" is a bad thing? (what ecactly do u mean? letting blacks and Asians live in our country?) A first-generation Sudanese immigrant born in America is no less American than soemone whose family came on the Mayflower. We're all immigrants (except the natives... but.... yeah).

I do think they should cut Mexican immigration a bit, though.

Really? In the UK the media is anti-Israel. I just think that every country's media has chosen a side, and America's chosen Israel (which is the right side, in my opinion). That doesn't mean it's controlled by the Jews like we're living in some screwed up "Mein Kempf" come-to-life conspiracy relaity. Hitler is dead. Move on.

Europe's major problem is Islamic influence. In America, its the Jews. That's where the tensions arise. Nevertheless, it is the jew who has provoked the world's problems.



....... Becuase that's what the conservatives and the neo-cons want.... yeah..... which is Why the bush admin (conservative/ neo-con) is trying for a gay-marriage ban.... I think yr a little confused.

Bush had nothing to say when Lawrence v. Texas forced sodomy as acceptable and legal throughout the U.S. He also could hardly get the words out when it came to defending the most sacred institution remaining.
Bush supports civil unions and couldn't care less about gay marriage. He had to support the Federal Marriage Amendment or he's lost that large voting block of "evangelical (judeo-)Christian" Zionists.
Bush is not a conservative. If Bush were a true conservative he would have taken the law in to federal hands at San Francisco to prevent marriage from being defiled. He would have refused to enforce a ruling NORMALIZING the ABNORMAL. This is because Bush is a NEOCON!


John Kohn of course would be even worse than Bush, being a Jew himself.


Israel's comitting no worse genocide than the Palestinians are or would try to do if they could. During WW2, the Palestinian leader (Arrafat's granfather, actually) made a deal with Hitler that once he'd won the war and killed all the Jews in Europe he would take German troops to Palestine and kill all the Jews there. At leats the Israelis aren't exterminating the Palestinians.

So let Israel and Palestine blow each other up and keep the civilized West out of it. Send the Jews to Israel and Arabs to Arabia and let them all live and kill amongst themselves in 8th century-style Mohammadan-infested deserts. And your story about Hitler and Jews and Palestine is a typical zionist revisionist history. Maybe you should stop by your local
holohoax® museum and come up with some new material.

I fail to see the connection between the Jews and Mexico, unless u believe in all that "Lost Tribe" nonsense....

And who says "racial integration" is a bad thing? (what ecactly do u mean? letting blacks and Asians live in our country?) A first-generation Sudanese immigrant born in America is no less American than soemone whose family came on the Mayflower. We're all immigrants (except the natives... but.... yeah).

An American is White. America was built by Whites whether they be our
Anglo-founders or Irish or Italian or Swedish or German hardworking people who made America what it was. Some early Whites had enough compassion to buy blacks from African and Arab slaveholders to see a taste of civilization. and have a chance to work with a home and food and all they do is try to rebel and kill. Why can't they build up their own countries and leave us alone? A Sudan for Sudanese, A Europe for
White EUROPEANS, an America for White AMERICANS. End this "multicultural" disaster brought upon by the Jews and their NEOCON servants.

. And your story about Hitler and Jews and Palestine is a typical zionist revisionist history. Maybe you should stop by your local
holohoax® museum and come up with some new material.

An American is White. America was built by Whites whether they be our
Anglo-founders or Irish or Italian or Swedish or German hardworking people who made America what it was. an America for White AMERICANS. End this "multicultural" disaster brought upon by the Jews and their NEOCON servants.

Dude, the thing about Hitler and the Palestinians is true, not a "revised history". Check it our fr yrself. t happened.

America was discovered, firstly, by the natives (of Asian descent), but I concede that they no longer have any special claim on it.... However, the first European settlers in America were the Spanish, a people more similar to the Mexicans than yr idea of "White".
And before we go any farther, I'd just like to tell u that I am a white American, and yr idea of white at that: I'm of mixed English, Irish, Scottish, German, Polish and Swedish (nobility) descent. I'm not some new immigrant who's out to flatter himself and bring himself above the rest of Us Americans; I'm an American who believes in these words:


.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Now, if u claim that u are above the original American Patriots and can make decisions against what they say, then u my freind, not the blacks, Asians or Mexicans, are the one who's not a true American. America was founded as a nation of freedom and tolerance. If u don't like it, I understand rascist and opressive views are quite welcome in much of the rest of the World. I suggest a change of scenery.

This fanatsy of control by a Jewish minority (which isn't even feasible) has been around for over a thousand years. Now, either the Jews have managed to hold onto power globaly like no-one else ever has for such a long period, or it's just a myth trotted out by people looking for scapegoats.

Food for thought.

Dude, the thing about Hitler and the Palestinians is true, not a "revised history". Check it our fr yrself. t happened.

It's your job to prove your claim using an unbiased source.


America was discovered, firstly, by the natives (of Asian descent), but I concede that they no longer have any special claim on it.... However, the first European settlers in America were the Spanish, a people more similar to the Mexicans than yr idea of "White".
And before we go any farther, I'd just like to tell u that I am a white American, and yr idea of white at that: I'm of mixed English, Irish, Scottish, German, Polish and Swedish (nobility) descent. I'm not some new immigrant who's out to flatter himself and bring himself above the rest of Us Americans;
First of all that whole Spanish=Mexican thing is an insult to the
White Iberian peoples. Brown-skinned Mexians are the result of mixing and are considered mestizos. The whole " Latino/ Hispanic" salsa craze is a complete fallacy since they are all just Amerindians. Real Hispanics live in Spain only. Real Latinos live in Europe including parts of France, Italy, etc. Just needed to clarify that since many think of Spain and Hispanics being brown-colored thanks to the Jewish media.


Also the non-white commonly pretends to be an "enlightened white" whos 100% White but believes in "racial equality." You can't prove your whiteness ( which I HIGHLY doubt) but if you are perhaps give up your MTV brainwashing and pick up on some grammar. Your post sounds very typical.

I'm an American who believes in these words:


.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Now, if u claim that u are above the original American Patriots and can make decisions against what they say, then u my freind, not the blacks, Asians or Mexicans, are the one who's not a true American. America was founded as a nation of freedom and tolerance. If u don't like it, I understand rascist and opressive views are quite welcome in much of the rest of the World. I suggest a change of scenery.

"Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate than that these [the Black] people are to be free. Nor is it less certain that the two races, equally free, cannot live in the same government. Nature, habit, opinion has drawn indelible lines of distinction between them."

~Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography



America is actually one of the most bigoted nations in recent history. Many a black escaped to Canada or France to escape "racial discrimination"
over the years. Racial tolerance was NOT founded as part of America. "Our Creator" was (as it did for nearly 180 years) supposed to play a major role in America but the Jews have forced Christianity out of what was once a Christian nation.

This fanatsy of control by a Jewish minority (which isn't even feasible) has been around for over a thousand years. Now, either the Jews have managed to hold onto power globaly like no-one else ever has for such a long period, or it's just a myth trotted out by people looking for scapegoats.

Food for thought.

I presented facts. Jews are in control of nearly every mass media outlet.
Their control only really climaxed aroung the 1960's, but they've been trying for quite many years before that. They've been ejected from every civilized people they've manifested themselves in for the past several thousand years.
That many people can't be wrong.

Yup, the spanish are all white. That whole "Moorish invasion" which brought with it Arab traits such as DARK SKIN, as well as a host of Arab knowledge, and a highly(for the time) progressive society is just a big hoax. And, if you judge people by their skin pigment, what do you do for people who tan heavily? are they considered faux-white?

And so's that Newfangled Treaty of Tripoli, put together by activist diplomats in 1798, which explictly states "The United States is not, and has never been a christian nation...." Look it up.

Oh, and for my sources, just go to the Library and check out El Cid. It's a good read.

Oh, and seriously, get a life.

Yup, the spanish are all white. That whole "Moorish invasion" which brought with it Arab traits such as DARK SKIN, as well as a host of Arab knowledge, and a highly(for the time) progressive society is just a big hoax. And, if you judge people by their skin pigment, what do you do for people who tan heavily? are they considered faux-white?

Some Spaniards are not White, however they are found mostly in the south and are rare.
[url=http://racialreality.shorturl.com/spaniards[/url] describes them with some pictures.

It was ironic several weeks ago when a statue of St. James beheading the moors was removed from a Cathedral to avoid offending Mohammadans.
It was just a week after the Mohammadans had blown up trains and then blown up buildings for their Mohammad as jihad against Christianity and the West.



And so's that Newfangled Treaty of Tripoli, put together by activist diplomats in 1798, which explictly states "The United States is not, and has never been a christian nation...." Look it up.

You secularists never tire of bringing up this same treaty. Article 11, which you refer to does not appear in the final Arabic version of the treaty. It was written in English by an outspoken atheist and there is doubt on it being there ever at all.

It is unnecessary for us, however, to consider what would be the legal effect of a devise in Pennsylvania for the establishment of a school or college, for the propagation of Judaism, or Deism, or any other form of infidelity. Such a case is not to be presumed to exist in a Christian country.
~Vidal v. Girard's Executors


Oh, and for my sources, just go to the Library and check out El Cid. It's a good read.

Oh, and seriously, get a life.

My concern is the life of all White Christians and their survival.

You're obviously a jew or brainwashed by them.

Yup, the spanish are all white. That whole "Moorish invasion" which brought with it Arab traits such as DARK SKIN, as well as a host of Arab knowledge, and a highly(for the time) progressive society is just a big hoax. And, if you judge people by their skin pigment, what do you do for people who tan heavily? are they considered faux-white?

Some Spaniards are not White, however they are found mostly in the south and are rare.
Spaniards (http://racialreality.shorturl.com/spaniards) describes them with some pictures.

It was ironic several weeks ago when a statue of St. James beheading the moors was removed from a Cathedral to avoid offending Mohammadans.
It was just a week after the Mohammadans had blown up trains and then blown up buildings for their Mohammad as jihad against Christianity and the West.



And so's that Newfangled Treaty of Tripoli, put together by activist diplomats in 1798, which explictly states "The United States is not, and has never been a christian nation...." Look it up.

You secularists never tire of bringing up this same treaty. Article 11, which you refer to does not appear in the final Arabic version of the treaty. It was written in English by an outspoken atheist and there is doubt on it being there ever at all.

It is unnecessary for us, however, to consider what would be the legal effect of a devise in Pennsylvania for the establishment of a school or college, for the propagation of Judaism, or Deism, or any other form of infidelity. Such a case is not to be presumed to exist in a Christian country.
~Vidal v. Girard's Executors


Oh, and for my sources, just go to the Library and check out El Cid. It's a good read.

Oh, and seriously, get a life.

My concern is the life of all White Christians and their survival.

You're obviously a jew or brainwashed by them.

Yup, the spanish are all white. That whole "Moorish invasion" which brought with it Arab traits such as DARK SKIN, as well as a host of Arab knowledge, and a highly(for the time) progressive society is just a big hoax. And, if you judge people by their skin pigment, what do you do for people who tan heavily? are they considered faux-white?

Some Spaniards are not White, however they are found mostly in the south and are rare.
Spaniards (http://racialreality.shorturl.com/spaniards) describes them with some pictures.

It was ironic several weeks ago when a statue of St. James beheading the moors was removed from a Cathedral to avoid offending Mohammadans.
It was just a week after the Mohammadans had blown up trains and then blown up buildings for their Mohammad as jihad against Christianity and the West.



And so's that Newfangled Treaty of Tripoli, put together by activist diplomats in 1798, which explictly states "The United States is not, and has never been a christian nation...." Look it up.

You secularists never tire of bringing up this same treaty. Article 11, which you refer to does not appear in the final Arabic version of the treaty. It was written in English by an outspoken atheist and there is doubt on it being there ever at all.

It is unnecessary for us, however, to consider what would be the legal effect of a devise in Pennsylvania for the establishment of a school or college, for the propagation of Judaism, or Deism, or any other form of infidelity. Such a case is not to be presumed to exist in a Christian country.
~Vidal v. Girard's Executors


Oh, and for my sources, just go to the Library and check out El Cid. It's a good read.

Oh, and seriously, get a life.

My concern is the life of all White Christians and their survival.

You're obviously a jew or brainwashed by them.

You're obviously one of those skinhead little nazi punks who can't cut it in the real world. If you're White, American, and Christian, there is no way you can be this much of a failure except that you're basically too weak to cut it, and should remove yourself from the gene-pool as soon as possible to prevent your basic ineptitude and inability to cope from corrupting future generations.

You and your kind, are an evolutionary dead-end, and not representative of any "Race" other than that of the Race of Failures, which crosses all colour lines, ethnicities, religious backgrounds, and nationalities.

There is no "Conspiracy" keeping you "Down" dumbass, it's your own inadequacies. As for the Holocaust being a fraud, I KNEW a lady who survived the Death Camps as a kid. I have a great-uncle who fought in that war, and saw one with his own eyes. He's baptist, southern, and racist as hell. He'd be eighty-eight now, if he were still alive. He used to have fricking Nightmares about what he saw out there.

The fundamental rule of Conservative thought is taking responsibility for your own actions-what some call "Rugged Individualism". Taking responsibility for your own fate, and accepting the cost of what you do-I expect I'll be Deated for this, for instance, and I am prepared to accept that, in order to make it perfectly crystal fucking clear the difference between a Conservative, and a racist, bigoted, paranoid piece of shit like you.

Neo Cons are formerly left leaning conservatives who migrated to the right. :idea:

huh? left leaning conservative?

The only definition that works in is that of Brezhnevite Russians in the 1980's. I couldn't apply it to modern neo-cons i'm afraid.

You think that conservatism is only a right wing phenomenon? :shock:

Among liberal democracies it is, as they are inherently right wing.

Oookay....

What's wrong with that statement? It's true. You can't call any of the modern liberal democracies left wing. They are centrist at best (eg. Europe).

Firstly, you ran off with the concept of 'left' to an extreme, if not off the map, to communism. Now this...

con·ser·va·tism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-sûrv-tzm)
n.
The inclination, especially in politics, to maintain the existing or traditional order.

A political philosophy or attitude emphasizing respect for traditional institutions, distrust of government activism, and opposition to sudden change in the established order.

Conservatism The principles and policies of the Conservative Party in the United Kingdom or of the Progressive Conservative Party in Canada.

Caution or moderation, as in behavior or outlook.

Don't try and treat me like an idiot, please. You are not reading my point.

Conservatives in liberal democratic nations are right wing.

Look at the definition you yourself posted. There is no left wing conservatism in the political system entrenched in western nations, because those following a "political philosophy or attitude emphasizing respect for traditional institutions, distrust of government activism, and opposition to sudden change in the established order" are the right wing. Even the moderate left support change in the established order to some degree.

Is there such thing as a neo-liberal?

Yes there s and they are just as stupid. It would seem the Prefix Neo simply means "corrupt" Because thats how both Neo conservatives and Liberals seem to act. All neos like to think of themselves as no nonsense people.

I have seen many references in many political articles and forum debates which refer to certain individuals like Rumsfeld and Bremer as Neo-Conservatives.
The debate that exists in this thread is to understand and define, to answer the questions below:-

1. What is the basic ideology of Neo-Conservatism?
2, What has motivated and caused its growth in politics?

Good luck.
Neo-consertavism is a word liberals use when they bash conservatives.

And Crazies is the term that more reasonable Conservatives use when referring to their Extremist overlords.

Moving back to subject - Ignoring some of the undesirable types on this thread. Neo Conservatism is similar to Neo Liberalism - I.e. Economic laissez faire, minimal goverment etc. However there is a big dash of authoritarianism, which would not be present in Neo - Liberalism too in the area of law and order. There are different flavours of Neo - Conservatism. For example myself, I am very tough on issues of law and order (Neo - Liberals may well simpathise with groups like Liberty of those matters) but do not think that government should be involved in preaching things like family values etc. Some Neo - conservatives percieve that social aspects of peoples lives fall within the remit of government.

Neo Cons are formerly left leaning conservatives who migrated to the right. :idea:

huh? left leaning conservative?

The only definition that works in is that of Brezhnevite Russians in the 1980's. I couldn't apply it to modern neo-cons i'm afraid.

You think that conservatism is only a right wing phenomenon? :shock:

Among liberal democracies it is, as they are inherently right wing.

Oookay....

What's wrong with that statement? It's true. You can't call any of the modern liberal democracies left wing. They are centrist at best (eg. Europe).

Firstly, you ran off with the concept of 'left' to an extreme, if not off the map, to communism. Now this...

con·ser·va·tism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-sûrv-tzm)
n.
The inclination, especially in politics, to maintain the existing or traditional order.

A political philosophy or attitude emphasizing respect for traditional institutions, distrust of government activism, and opposition to sudden change in the established order.

Conservatism The principles and policies of the Conservative Party in the United Kingdom or of the Progressive Conservative Party in Canada.

Caution or moderation, as in behavior or outlook.

Don't try and treat me like an idiot, please. You are not reading my point.

Conservatives in liberal democratic nations are right wing.

Look at the definition you yourself posted. There is no left wing conservatism in the political system entrenched in western nations, because those following a "political philosophy or attitude emphasizing respect for traditional institutions, distrust of government activism, and opposition to sudden change in the established order" are the right wing. Even the moderate left support change in the established order to some degree.

A snippet from an article called...What the Heck Is a Neocon? (http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/180)

The original neocons were a band of liberal intellectuals who rebelled against the Democratic Party's leftward drift on defense issues in the 1970s. At first the neocons clustered around Sen. Henry "Scoop" Jackson, a Democrat, but then they aligned themselves with Ronald Reagan and the Republicans, who promised to confront Soviet expansionism. The neocons, in the famous formulation of one of their leaders, Irving Kristol, were "liberals mugged by reality."

I treat everyone like an idiot :P

I bet some of ya "neo-cons" are shivering with the thought y'all got liberal cooties. :)

Nope - I undertand the relationship between Neo Conservatism and Neo - Liberalism. Neo - Liberalism you can trace back to Adam Smith.

Neocons have a philosophical background, namely, the writings and teachings of a guy called Leo Strauss. Leo Strauss was classical scholar and is principally known in academia for his work on Machiavelli. His philosophical theory was that the authors of the western classics and specifically the Greek philosophical writers (Plato, Aristotle, etc.) had two teachings the exoteric and the esoteric. These teachings were diametrically opposite in their meaning but the esoteric was the "real" teaching and it was hidden behind the public or exoteric teaching. Leo Strauss was the teacher of Alan Bloom who in turn taught directly or indirectly, through students, some of the most important people in the present day cabal of neocon policy makers in the government (Richard Pearle, Wolfowitz, Ashcroft, to name some). Anyway Leo Strauss himself believed that the public at large was not capable of understanding these moral teachings and so they had to be manipulated into submission and obedience, and it was up to a small elite group of intellectuals to carry out the moral teachings of the ancients.

I would beg to differ there. The philosphical roots of Neo conservatism seem to be an attempt to combine the theories of people like Adam Smith, Robert Nozick, Milton Friedman and Aristiotle, Heyek with the likes of Hegel, Edmund Burke, Hobbes etc etc. I.e. exponants of economic laissaz faire with traditional conservative philosphers...