NationStates Jolt Archive

This was a forwarded email, eventually made it to the TOny Snow show... I haven't found the source yet... but it's definately something no anti-war newschannel will air.

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SOMETHING THAT DIDN'T MAKE THE NEWS

Maybe you'd like to hear about something other than idiot Reservists and naked Iraqis.

Maybe you'd like to hear about a real American, somebody who honored the uniform he wears.

Meet Brian Chontosh.

Churchville-Chili Central School class of 1991. Proud graduate of the Rochester Institute of Technology. Husband and about-to-be father. First lieutenant in the United States Marine Corps.

And a genuine hero.

The secretary of the Navy said so yesterday.

At 29 Palms in California Brian Chontosh was presented with the Navy Cross, the second highest award for combat bravery the United States can bestow.

That's a big deal.

But you won't see it on the network news tonight, and all you read in Brian's hometown newspaper was two paragraphs of nothing. Instead, it was more blather about some mental
defective MPs who acted like animals.

The odd fact about the American media in this war is that it's not covering the American military. The most plugged-in nation in the world is receiving virtually no true information about what its warriors are doing.

Oh, sure, there's a body count. We know how many Americans have fallen. And we see those same casket pictures day in and day out. And we're almost on a first-name basis with the pukes who abused the Iraqi prisoners. And we know all about improvised explosive devices and how we lost Fallujah and what Arab public-opinion polls say about us and how the world hates us.

We get a non-stop feed of gloom and doom.

But we don't hear about the heroes.

The incredibly brave GIs who honorably do their duty. The ones our grandparents would have carried on their shoulders down Fifth Avenue.

The ones we completely ignore.

Like Brian Chontosh.

It was a year ago on the march into Baghdad. Brian Chontosh was a platoon leader rolling up Highway 1 in a humvee.

When all hell broke loose.

Ambush city.

The young Marines were being cut to ribbons. Mortars, machine guns, rocket propelled grenades. And the kid out of Churchville was in charge. It was do or die and it was up to him.

So he moved to the side of his column, looking for a way to lead his men to safety. As he tried to poke a hole through the Iraqi line his humvee came under direct enemy machine gun fire.

It was fish in a barrel and the Marines were the fish.

And Brian Chontosh gave the order to attack. He told his driver to floor the humvee directly at the machine gun emplacement that was firing at them. And he had the guy on top with the .50 cal unload on them.

Within moments there were Iraqis slumped across the machine gun and Chontosh was still advancing, ordering his driver now to take the humvee directly into the Iraqi trench that was
attacking his Marines. Over into the battlement the humvee went and out the door Brian Chontosh bailed, carrying an M16 and a Beretta and 228 years of Marine Corps pride.

And he ran down the trench.

With its mortars and riflemen, machineguns and grenadiers.

And he killed them all.

He fought with the M16 until he was out of ammo. Then he fought with the Beretta until it was out of ammo. Then he picked up a dead man's AK47 and fought with that until it was out of ammo. Then he picked up another dead man's AK47 and fought with that until it was out of ammo.

At one point he even fired a discarded Iraqi RPG into an enemy cluster, sending attackers flying with its grenade explosion.

When he was done Brian Chontosh had cleared 200 yards of entrenched Iraqis from his platoon's flank. He had killed more than 20 and wounded at least as many more.

But that's probably not how he would tell it.

He would probably merely say that his Marines were in trouble, and he got them out of trouble. Hoo-ah, and drive on.

"By his outstanding display of decisive leadership, unlimited courage in the face of heavy enemy fire, and utmost devotion to duty, 1st Lt. Chontosh reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and the United States Naval Service."

That's what the citation says.

And that's what nobody will hear.

That's what doesn't seem to be making the evening news. Accounts of American valor are dismissed by the press as propaganda, yet accounts of American difficulties are heralded as
objectivity. It makes you wonder if the role of the media is to inform, or to depress - to report or to deride. To tell the truth, or to feed us lies.

But I guess it doesn't matter.

We're going to turn out all right.

As long as men like Brian Chontosh wear our uniform.

Now that is a good story.
Thanks for sharing man.

actually I saw this story on CNN, so it was reported by the liberal media. what an extraordinary act of heroism

The guy's a badass.

Wow A rant from a Small time editorial.
The guy who wrote this is an idiot. Firstly its old news, very old. And secondly the Army doesnt actually like to allude to the fact that it kills people. You may think Im stupid but its true. Check recruitment. They dont talk about such things. Just about the pay being so good for people so young and Defending Freedom. They military doesnt want you thinking about Charging down dirty trenches and Slaughtering entire companies.

actually I saw this story on CNN, so it was reported by the liberal media. what an extraordinary act of heroismBut the point is... it was a blurb... just an "oh, ok, back to whatever antibush/antiwar/antiUSA issue we're on."


Strories like this need to be spread around, posted on campus walls, and all over the internet... i really had to search hard for this! TWO sites on google mentioned this.

You know, in 10 years of fighting in Afghanistan, the Russians killed a million Afghans. More than a 40-1 kill ratio. That's a lot of individual acts of valour.

In Chechnya too, occasional house-to-house bayonet charges wipe out units of guerillas at a stroke.

Vietnam had its fair share of heroism. And so did Korea.

But all those wars, and many more, were lost by those who were supposed to win them. Endless pages could be written about the everyday heroism that unfolds on every battlefield in the world. There are around two dozen wars being fought now. But such details are an inevitable, expected and mundane part of war.

What is important is the big picture, not the detail. If one loses oneself in the detail, one is more likely to forget that they are losing the war.

Wow A rant from a Small time editorial.
The guy who wrote this is an idiot. Firstly its old news, very old. And secondly the Army doesnt actually like to allude to the fact that it kills people. You may think Im stupid but its true. Check recruitment. They dont talk about such things. Just about the pay being so good for people so young and Defending Freedom. They military doesnt want you thinking about Charging down dirty trenches and Slaughtering entire companies.
Dude was in the Marine Corps, not the Army. You may want to read the article before you bash it.

Wow A rant from a Small time editorial.
The guy who wrote this is an idiot. Firstly its old news, very old. And secondly the Army doesnt actually like to allude to the fact that it kills people. You may think Im stupid but its true. Check recruitment. They dont talk about such things. Just about the pay being so good for people so young and Defending Freedom. They military doesnt want you thinking about Charging down dirty trenches and Slaughtering entire companies.The guy who wrote this is an idiot.

You know, in 10 years of fighting in Afghanistan, the Russians killed a million Afghans. More than a 40-1 kill ratio. That's a lot of individual acts of valour.

In Chechnya too, occasional house-to-house bayonet charges wipe out units of guerillas at a stroke.

Vietnam had its fair share of heroism. And so did Korea.

But all those wars, and many more, were lost by those who were supposed to win them. Endless pages could be written about the everyday heroism that unfolds on every battlefield in the world. There are around two dozen wars being fought now. But such details are an inevitable, expected and mundane part of war.

What is important is the big picture, not the detail. If one loses oneself in the detail, one is more likely to forget that they are losing the war.
We lost Korea? Thats news to me

we need more like him

Anyone that joins the army not to charge down a trench to kill entire companies is an idiot.

We lost Korea? Thats news to me
Yes. You went in, along with the rest of the UN, and spent 3 years losing tens of thousands of men, moving the front line back and forth to precisely the point where it all started. That's a loss.

You know, in 10 years of fighting in Afghanistan, the Russians killed a million Afghans. More than a 40-1 kill ratio. That's a lot of individual acts of valour.

In Chechnya too, occasional house-to-house bayonet charges wipe out units of guerillas at a stroke.

Vietnam had its fair share of heroism. And so did Korea.

But all those wars, and many more, were lost by those who were supposed to win them. Endless pages could be written about the everyday heroism that unfolds on every battlefield in the world. There are around two dozen wars being fought now. But such details are an inevitable, expected and mundane part of war.

What is important is the big picture, not the detail. If one loses oneself in the detail, one is more likely to forget that they are losing the war.When you refuse to show the true colors of the American forces, you encourage a loss.

These people who refuse to focus on anything but the bad are nothing short of defeatists.

They are the reason we lost Vietnam, they are the reason we are suffering from low morale in this war.

We lost Korea? Thats news to me
Yes. You went in, along with the rest of the UN, and spent 3 years losing tens of thousands of men, moving the front line back and forth to precisely the point where it all started. That's a loss.
We preserved the democracy in South Korea, i see it as a victory, at worst a tie.

We lost Korea? Thats news to me
Yes. You went in, along with the rest of the UN, and spent 3 years losing tens of thousands of men, moving the front line back and forth to precisely the point where it all started. That's a loss.

Wasn't the objective to push NK forces out of SK? We did quite sucessfully.

Anyone that joins the army not to charge down a trench to kill entire companies is an idiot.There are 2 types of people in the military.

people who are there out of choice.
people who are there without choice.

actually I saw this story on CNN, so it was reported by the liberal media. what an extraordinary act of heroismBut the point is... it was a blurb... just an "oh, ok, back to whatever antibush/antiwar/antiUSA issue we're on."


Strories like this need to be spread around, posted on campus walls, and all over the internet... i really had to search hard for this! TWO sites on google mentioned this.
it had a 5-8 minute piece on Lou Dobbs or Anderson 360. But I never saw the stroy get ran again.

I argee with RMT, this story needs to be heard

the war in Iraq will be won or lost on the home front

just like in viet nam, it never was and never will be about how the soldiers did it'll be about how the voters do

America's military forces are a all volunteer professional force.

TG: We didn't lose, we just didn't Win. We froze the fight... set boundaries, and defended our ally.

Defending the south was our primary goal, advancing to the north was secondary.

Wow A rant from a Small time editorial.
The guy who wrote this is an idiot. Firstly its old news, very old. And secondly the Army doesnt actually like to allude to the fact that it kills people. You may think Im stupid but its true. Check recruitment. They dont talk about such things. Just about the pay being so good for people so young and Defending Freedom. They military doesnt want you thinking about Charging down dirty trenches and Slaughtering entire companies.The guy who wrote this is an idiot.

You might not like it but its true. But yeah I guess that Dastardly Liberal Media is hypocritical. I suppose A single man Killing a whole bunch of Iraqi's IS as shocking as realising that the Military they support might not be as pure as Driven snow. And on occasion Might do things that would seem contradictory to the goal they are supposed to be Achieving.

America's military forces are a all volunteer professional force.you must understand though, a bunch of those "volunteers" never thought they'd actually go to war :) They're idiots, but they are there, and fighting for us, and we must tell them that they are supported and loved.

actually I saw this story on CNN, so it was reported by the liberal media. what an extraordinary act of heroismBut the point is... it was a blurb... just an "oh, ok, back to whatever antibush/antiwar/antiUSA issue we're on."


Strories like this need to be spread around, posted on campus walls, and all over the internet... i really had to search hard for this! TWO sites on google mentioned this.
it had a 5-8 minute piece on Lou Dobbs or Anderson 360. But I never saw the stroy get ran again.Exactly my point.

Good things: 5-8 minutes
Bad things: 5-8 weeks.

They are the reason we lost Vietnam, they are the reason we are suffering from low morale in this war.

Hmm, and here I thought we lost Vietam because we couldn't deal with the geurilla tactics. employed against us. Please, spare us the, "Oh, those horrible anti-war people are causing us to lose the war by their awful use of the first amendment!"

What's more logical - reporting how bad things are, or how good? The latter didn't seem to work too well for WW1-era Germany, and I tend to think it's better to know how deep you're getting in. Just look at the stuff that New Auburnland is posting in the other thread like this. Nothing in there is in any way indicative of how we're doing in the war as a whole. Is that the stuff which ought to be reported?

The Reason the U.S lost the war was because the Vietnamese Was suffering from Low morale.

The reason we lost the Vietnam war was a policy of attrition and not maneavur. We went out on patrol, killed a shitload of VC, returned to base, and did it again.

Too bad were a lot of VC.

Just look at the stuff that New Auburnland is posting in the other thread like this. Nothing in there is in any way indicative of how we're doing in the war as a whole. Is that the stuff which ought to be reported?
How is the treatment of a few detainees indicative of how we are doing in the war as a whole? I believe all should be reported, all the good, and all the bad.

Wow A rant from a Small time editorial.
The guy who wrote this is an idiot. Firstly its old news, very old. And secondly the Army doesnt actually like to allude to the fact that it kills people. You may think Im stupid but its true. Check recruitment. They dont talk about such things. Just about the pay being so good for people so young and Defending Freedom. They military doesnt want you thinking about Charging down dirty trenches and Slaughtering entire companies.The guy who wrote this is an idiot.

You might not like it but its true. But yeah I guess that Dastardly Liberal Media is hypocritical. I suppose A single man Killing a whole bunch of Iraqi's IS as shocking as realising that the Military they support might not be as pure as Driven snow. And on occasion Might do things that would seem contradictory to the goal they are supposed to be Achieving.It's people like you who take the slightest little problem/stain in the smallest portion of the military, and exploit it into "the entire military is evil and sadistic!"

Admit it, you would love nothing more than to see us lose and pull out of Iraq.

"Believe you can, or believe you can't, either way, you're right."

That quote is precisely the case in war.

Where there's a will, there's a way. Where there's doubt and ridicule, there is defeat.

And wheres theres Rhetoric theres something to hide.
I dont think the Military is evil and Sadistic. I think the Command structure are Idiots.

Have you Already Been through Boot camp? I hope not. Then It'll be easier on you.

They are the reason we lost Vietnam, they are the reason we are suffering from low morale in this war.

Hmm, and here I thought we lost Vietam because we couldn't deal with the geurilla tactics. employed against us. Please, spare us the, "Oh, those horrible anti-war people are causing us to lose the war by their awful use of the first amendment!"

What's more logical - reporting how bad things are, or how good? The latter didn't seem to work too well for WW1-era Germany, and I tend to think it's better to know how deep you're getting in. Just look at the stuff that New Auburnland is posting in the other thread like this. Nothing in there is in any way indicative of how we're doing in the war as a whole. Is that the stuff which ought to be reported?

why were there only 400,000 troops in country?

why wern't we allowed to invade cambodia/loas/n vietnam?

why did we have to respect the DMZ when no one else did?

cause of the anti-war movment

if our army didn't have to fight with two hands and a leg tied behind its back vietnam would have been over in 6 months

Then I guess it is a partial achievement of the objectives, in that one instance. My wider point is this - the heroism of soldiers must not be allowed to become an end in itself. Heroism abounds in any war. Focusing on it to forget that the war is being lost is counter-productive. There needs to be big picture awareness. And the US media, in spite of any number of claims of bias, and the fact that stories like this are not widely reported, is failing to address even that side of the question adequately.

The reason we lost the Vietnam war was a policy of attrition and not maneavur. We went out on patrol, killed a shitload of VC, returned to base, and did it again.

Too bad were a lot of VC.In world war II, there was no negative media, and no loud protests.

In vietnam, the propganda ceased, and the hippies paraded.

In WWII, we won, after hundreds of thousands of Allied deaths, and brought peace to many regions. Everyone was a hero.

In vietnam, we lost a couple ten thousand, and pulled out... leaving those who died remembered in vain, those who survived were spat upon, and Millions more in vietnam died by the hands of communism.

Just look at the stuff that New Auburnland is posting in the other thread like this. Nothing in there is in any way indicative of how we're doing in the war as a whole. Is that the stuff which ought to be reported?
How is the treatment of a few detainees indicative of how we are doing in the war as a whole? I believe all should be reported, all the good, and all the bad.

Well, considering it is going to rally a whole new line of fanatics against us, I'd say it's quite important. Surely, this story and other good news is worth reporting, but unless the war you're in happens to be a cakewalk, people need to know how bad things are. When youre dealing with lives of your countrymen, people need to know when they're losing the war, ehnce my reference to WW1 Germany.

why were there only 400,000 troops in country?

why wern't we allowed to invade cambodia/loas/n vietnam?

why did we have to respect the DMZ when no one else did?

Because then you would have have to have dealt with the Soviet army.

I think its become a Bit tiresome to blame all of societies Ills on hippys, dont you?

Reasons we are "losing" the war on terrorism.

Antibushism
Negative Media
Exploited Scandals
Reverse Propoganda
Political Correctness
People believing we are losing, when we are not
Every time a Mosque is bombed, it's a bad thing.
Every time a civillian human shield is destroyed, we become the bad guys.

why were there only 400,000 troops in country?

why wern't we allowed to invade cambodia/loas/n vietnam?

why did we have to respect the DMZ when no one else did?

cause of the anti-war movment

if our army didn't have to fight with two hands and a leg tied behind its back vietnam would have been over in 6 months
No, more likely because they didn't want to be crushed flat by a Chinese counter-attack like in North Korea. Or other considerations. The US turned up in 1955 in the form of "advisors" and went into full-scale war fighting mode in 1965. The anti-war movement was not a politically significant national phenomenon until 1968. In those first few years of operations, the military had the public's support. And it failed. Your "6 months" assertion, I am not sure where you got it from, is invalidated by history. The US has years of public support to get the job done. It wasn't people at home who screwed it up.

Just look at the stuff that New Auburnland is posting in the other thread like this. Nothing in there is in any way indicative of how we're doing in the war as a whole. Is that the stuff which ought to be reported?
How is the treatment of a few detainees indicative of how we are doing in the war as a whole? I believe all should be reported, all the good, and all the bad.

Well, considering it is going to rally a whole new line of fanatics against us, I'd say it's quite important. Surely, this story and other good news is worth reporting, but unless the war you're in happens to be a cakewalk, people need to know how bad things are. When youre dealing with lives of your countrymen, people need to know when they're losing the war, ehnce my reference to WW1 Germany.You missed his point. Knowing how bad things are is absolutely necessary. But knowing how good things are is just as necessary.

The problem is, those with a political agenda like to spin things by removing all good and truth, and leaving only the bad, and lies.

why were there only 400,000 troops in country?

why wern't we allowed to invade cambodia/loas/n vietnam?

why did we have to respect the DMZ when no one else did?

Because then you would have have to have dealt with the Soviet army.

I think its become a Bit tiresome to blame all of societies Ills on hippys, dont you?

or not?

the soviets wouldn't have interviened unless we crossed the chinese boarder, and even then they might not

the whole time we should have been conducting cross-boarder raids but didn't for fear of making it look like we were expanding the war

LOL. What do you base that on?

And If BF:V is to be Believed It was because of Television. No longer was War romanticised by Propaganda ministers. The people saw what was happening with thier own eyes.

No, we don't see new pictures of caskets everyday. Those are cencored by the White House. The press are not allowed to take pictures of the caskets arriving in the US and Bush has refused to attend the funeral of even one US troop killed in Iraq. The Iraq abuse photos were held back for a month by the corporate media. When was the last time you saw a picture of an Iraqi civilian killed? If you want coverage of the US military, when was the last time you saw a picture or video of an American killed in battle? They don't show that at all.

When 60 minutes wanted to do a tribute to the troops that were killed in Iraq, some stations refused to air it and conservatives attacked the decision. Conservatives are the ones blocking out real coverage of troops and the reality of war, and the corporate media plays along.

I'm so sick of the conservative persecution complex about this bogus liberal media. Corporations own the media and the media reflects the corporate agenda.

... people need to know how bad things are. When youre dealing with lives of your countrymen, people need to know when they're losing the war, ehnce my reference to WW1 Germany.
Its not as bad as the media tries to make it out to be in Iraq. My cousin has been stationed near Najaf for nearly 4 months and has not had to fire a single shot. There has not been a single casualty in his brigade (4,500 troops) in the 5 months he has been stationed in Iraq. We are not losing the war. Winning the hearts and minds is not a short term mission, thats why idiots like the MP guards who abused those prisoners are fuck ing stupid.

why were there only 400,000 troops in country?

why wern't we allowed to invade cambodia/loas/n vietnam?

why did we have to respect the DMZ when no one else did?

cause of the anti-war movment

if our army didn't have to fight with two hands and a leg tied behind its back vietnam would have been over in 6 months
No, more likely because they didn't want to be crushed flat by a Chinese counter-attack like in North Korea. Or other considerations. The US turned up in 1955 in the form of "advisors" and went into full-scale war fighting mode in 1965. The anti-war movement was not a politically significant national phenomenon until 1968. In those first few years of operations, the military had the public's support. And it failed. Your "6 months" assertion, I am not sure where you got it from, is invalidated by history. The US has years of public support to get the job done. It wasn't people at home who screwed it up.

The war was actually going relativly well until 1968. The Tet Offensive is was the turning point, according to my history teacher.

Explain to the World why American troops need to be in Iraq.

Just look at the stuff that New Auburnland is posting in the other thread like this. Nothing in there is in any way indicative of how we're doing in the war as a whole. Is that the stuff which ought to be reported?
How is the treatment of a few detainees indicative of how we are doing in the war as a whole? I believe all should be reported, all the good, and all the bad.

Well, considering it is going to rally a whole new line of fanatics against us, I'd say it's quite important. Surely, this story and other good news is worth reporting, but unless the war you're in happens to be a cakewalk, people need to know how bad things are. When youre dealing with lives of your countrymen, people need to know when they're losing the war, ehnce my reference to WW1 Germany.You missed his point. Knowing how bad things are is absolutely necessary. But knowing how good things are is just as necessary.

The problem is, those with a political agenda like to spin things by removing all good and truth, and leaving only the bad, and lies.

I already acknowledged that knowing how good things are is necessary. Of course, only those opposed to the war are spinning anything, right Raysia? :lol:

why were there only 400,000 troops in country?

why wern't we allowed to invade cambodia/loas/n vietnam?

why did we have to respect the DMZ when no one else did?

cause of the anti-war movment

if our army didn't have to fight with two hands and a leg tied behind its back vietnam would have been over in 6 months
No, more likely because they didn't want to be crushed flat by a Chinese counter-attack like in North Korea. Or other considerations. The US turned up in 1955 in the form of "advisors" and went into full-scale war fighting mode in 1965. The anti-war movement was not a politically significant national phenomenon until 1968. In those first few years of operations, the military had the public's support. And it failed. Your "6 months" assertion, I am not sure where you got it from, is invalidated by history. The US has years of public support to get the job done. It wasn't people at home who screwed it up.

the chinese wouldn't have pulled anything, they were compeeting for shperes of influence in SE asia

n. vietnam was a soviet puppet which kept beating up their puppy cambodia

and they were working with nixon to see the downfall of the soviet empire

LOL. What do you base that on?

And If BF:V is to be Believed It was because of Television. No longer was War romanticised by Propaganda ministers. The people saw what was happening with thier own eyes.Yeah, and that's why we lost.

... people need to know how bad things are. When youre dealing with lives of your countrymen, people need to know when they're losing the war, ehnce my reference to WW1 Germany.
Its not as bad as the media tries to make it out to be in Iraq. My cousin has been stationed near Najaf for nearly 4 months and has not had to fire a single shot. There has not been a single casualty in his brigade (4,500 troops) in the 5 months he has been stationed in Iraq. We are not losing the war. Winning the hearts and minds is not a short term mission, thats why idiots like the MP guards who abused those prisoners are f--- ing stupid.I had you pinned a while back for a stereotypical liberal! Thanks for proving to me you have free thought and conscience and common sense :)

... people need to know how bad things are. When youre dealing with lives of your countrymen, people need to know when they're losing the war, ehnce my reference to WW1 Germany.
Its not as bad as the media tries to make it out to be in Iraq. My cousin has been stationed near Najaf for nearly 4 months and has not had to fire a single shot. There has not been a single casualty in his brigade (4,500 troops) in the 5 months he has been stationed in Iraq. We are not losing the war. Winning the hearts and minds is not a short term mission, thats why idiots like the MP guards who abused those prisoners are f--- ing stupid.I had you pinned a while back for a stereotypical liberal! Thanks for proving to me you have free thought and conscience and common sense :)
Me? a liberal? yeah right! I would off myself before I turned into a liberal.

LOL. What do you base that on?

And If BF:V is to be Believed It was because of Television. No longer was War romanticised by Propaganda ministers. The people saw what was happening with thier own eyes.Yeah, and that's why we lost.

So am I to take it that you are totally opposed to Democracy which ironically enough is what the U.S Military is supposed to be Fighting for?

LOL. What do you base that on?

And If BF:V is to be Believed It was because of Television. No longer was War romanticised by Propaganda ministers. The people saw what was happening with thier own eyes.Yeah, and that's why we lost.

So am I to take it that you are totally opposed to Democracy which ironically enough is what the U.S Military is supposed to be Fighting for?I'm opposed to defeatism and negativism (as oxymoronical that may be)

Democracy is great, but war is war.

People have the right to say what they want, people have the right to be idiots, people have the right to be f---wits. And unfortunately, people have the right to spin/deny the truth to ensure their candidate gets into office, even if it means politicizing something like this war to the point where it costs american lives.

LOL. What do you base that on?

And If BF:V is to be Believed It was because of Television. No longer was War romanticised by Propaganda ministers. The people saw what was happening with thier own eyes.Yeah, and that's why we lost.

So am I to take it that you are totally opposed to Democracy which ironically enough is what the U.S Military is supposed to be Fighting for?I'm opposed to defeatism and negativism (as oxymoronical that may be)

Democracy is great, but war is war.

People have the right to say what they want, people have the right to be idiots, people have the right to be f---wits. And unfortunately, people have the right to spin/deny the truth to ensure their candidate gets into office, even if it means politicizing something like this war to the point where it costs american lives.

Well, since I cherish free speech, I do appreciate your Fair and Balanced™ input on the matter.