NationStates Jolt Archive

Just breaking a stereotype here.

My Jewish friend *HATES* Ariel Sharon, and while he's not pro-Palestinian, he thought that Mahmoud Abbas was *the* perfect man for Palestinian PM. Too bad he had to resign because of Arafat

I have to back you up here, I know many Jewish people that are very against what Israel is doing.. There is a huge difference between being Jewish.. and being an Israeli.. at least for some. I have had some of the best discussions with Jewish people about Israel.. and they were completely objective.

I hate when some people try to equate criticizm of Israel with antisemitism--thats just dishonest manipulation meant to squash dissent

I hate when some people try to equate criticizm of Israel with antisemitism--thats just dishonest manipulation meant to squash dissent
That's the reason why anti-semitism is on the rise in Europe.
Foolish people.

I hate when some people try to equate criticizm of Israel with antisemitism--thats just dishonest manipulation meant to squash dissent
That's the reason why anti-semitism is on the rise in Europe.
Foolish people.
I agree--its Ariel Sharons fault

some of my jewish israeli comrades made international news when one of them got shot at an action against the wall.

I'd also would like to point out that Americans are not (all) obese monsters bent on SUV imperialism

some of my jewish israeli comrades made international news when one of them got shot at an action against the wall.
Sharon is the Bush/Rumsfeld/Cheney of Israel

I'd also would like to point out that Americans are not (all) obese monsters bent on SUV imperialism
Some are just bible-thumping holier-than-thou self-righteous whacko religious fundamentalists with nothing better to do than to tell me why I'm going to hell ;)

Your thought is correct, but your wording is not. Your statement should read "Not all Jews are pro-Israel."

Your thought is correct, but your wording is not. Your statement should read "Not all Jews are pro-Israel."

thats what he/she said

Your thought is correct, but your wording is not. Your statement should read "Not all Jews are pro-Israel."

Lmao. I picture a massive group of jews, from all countries of the world gathering together one night under a banner saying "Jews against Israel" carrying torches and marching toward Israel shouting obscenities.

Your thought is correct, but your wording is not. Your statement should read "Not all Jews are pro-Israel."

Lmao. I picture a massive group of jews, from all countries of the world gathering together one night under a banner saying "Jews against Israel" carrying torches and marching toward Israel shouting obscenities.

Somehow I don't see it ;)

Your thought is correct, but your wording is not. Your statement should read "Not all Jews are pro-Israel."

Lmao. I picture a massive group of jews, from all countries of the world gathering together one night under a banner saying "Jews against Israel" carrying torches and marching toward Israel shouting obscenities.
its not against Israel--its against rightwing nazis like Sharon

Your thought is correct, but your wording is not. Your statement should read "Not all Jews are pro-Israel."

Lmao. I picture a massive group of jews, from all countries of the world gathering together one night under a banner saying "Jews against Israel" carrying torches and marching toward Israel shouting obscenities.
its not against Israel--its against rightwing nazis like Sharon
Strange comparison. But, yet, somehow it's accurate....

Your thought is correct, but your wording is not. Your statement should read "Not all Jews are pro-Israel."

Lmao. I picture a massive group of jews, from all countries of the world gathering together one night under a banner saying "Jews against Israel" carrying torches and marching toward Israel shouting obscenities.

Somehow I don't see it ;)

How can you not? :P You can't say you wouldn't absolutely love it if Sharon were assassinated by a jew.

Your thought is correct, but your wording is not. Your statement should read "Not all Jews are pro-Israel."

Lmao. I picture a massive group of jews, from all countries of the world gathering together one night under a banner saying "Jews against Israel" carrying torches and marching toward Israel shouting obscenities.
its not against Israel--its against rightwing nazis like Sharon
Strange comparison. But, yet, somehow it's accurate....

nazism didnt start, or end, with nazis...they just named it

I have to back you up here, I know many Jewish people that are very against what Israel is doing.. There is a huge difference between being Jewish.. and being an Israeli.. at least for some. I have had some of the best discussions with Jewish people about Israel.. and they were completely objective.

So then are you saying that being an Israeli is to be unobjective and wrong? :?

It's just not clear. And remember, the majority of Isrealis (70%) want to withdraw from the West Bank. It's just been bogged down in infighting withing Sharon's party.

The word anti-Israeli isn't any more descriptive (or any less deceiving) than saying anti-war protestors are anti-American. Everyone should step back from existential labels and focus on policy labels. :)

I am half heeb (racially, I think religion is silly), but that doesn't affect my ability to place blame where it belongs in the Israel/Palestine mess. I do hate Sharon for many reasons: His horrendous human rights record in the IDF, inciting the al-asqa intifada and then coming to power on the instibility that ensued.

But the problem didn't start with Sharon. Zionists started emigrating from Europe to Palestine in the late 1800's with the intent of displacing its arab residents and founding an entirely Jewish state. They did the same thing that European down-and-outs had been doing for centuries, they found a chunk of land and began colonizing it. They didn't have the numbers to totally conquer Palestine until after WW2, when Jews started pouring out of Europe and into Palestine.

Radical zionists used 'terrorism' to get the British out (they didn't blow up buses or anything, but they blew up British buildings like that King David hotel and oil pipelines and such, and they assassinated some British officials). Once the Brits jumped ship, they used their European training, automatic weapons, tanks and planes to soak the Arabs thorougly.
I guess I don't really have a point for this, history is history and the Jews are there to stay. Both sides now need to work on curbing extremists from their own race so the moderates can work things out. The majority of both populations want peace, but the extremists have a way of speaking for everyone.

If the solution were up to me, I'd bag the two-state plan. If there is ever to be peace between Arab and Jew, then both sides need to see that they're all the same friggin people. What they need is one state: a TRULY representative, secular democracy with equal rights and equal protection before the law. I think that a Palestinian state would be a breeding ground for anti-Jewish violence, because it would reinforce the notion that Jews and Arabs are different, that they are enemies who need to be separated. Many Jews and Arabs living in Israel/Palestine understand that this is false, but the incessant violence (thanks to the IDF and Palestinian guerilla's eye for an eye mentality) are polarizing more people every day. A solution based on racism will never bring peace, only one based on representation for all.

Of course there are Jews who don't like Israel. Haven't you heard of self-hating jews?

Just breaking a stereotype here.

My Jewish friend *HATES* Ariel Sharon, and while he's not pro-Palestinian, he thought that Mahmoud Abbas was *the* perfect man for Palestinian PM. Too bad he had to resign because of Arafat
Aww lookie. Someone had just discovered the obvious.

Of course not all Jews are pro-Israeli. Not all Israelis support Sharon. Not all Israelis take Israel's side in the conflict with Palestinians. I'll tell you more- there are Jews who are anti-Semites, too. What, pray tell, was your point?

Of course there are Jews who don't like Israel. Haven't you heard of self-hating jews?
but people who criticize their own country love it more then the people who blindly support it

Of course there are Jews who don't like Israel. Haven't you heard of self-hating jews?
but people who criticize their own country love it more then the people who blindly support it
And Michael Moore is a gifted and legitimate documentary film maker. Ah... so funny.

Makes sense, Israel's a country and Judaisms a religion.

Of course there are Jews who don't like Israel. Haven't you heard of self-hating jews?
but people who criticize their own country love it more then the people who blindly support it
Depends on what kind of criticism it is. Someone advocating their country's destruction or working to bring about its defeat is hardly in love with his homeland.

Of course there are Jews who don't like Israel. Haven't you heard of self-hating jews?
but people who criticize their own country love it more then the people who blindly support it

I agree if it's constructive criticism. Anyway, a Jew doesn't have to be self-hating to dislike Israel or it's foreign policy. Unless they're Israeli, it's not even their own country they're criticizing.

How can you not? :P You can't say you wouldn't absolutely love it if Sharon were assassinated by a jew.

Kinda like how Yitzhak (sp?) Rabin was assassinated - too bad he was progressive

Damn server :evil: :evil:

:evil:
BAD SERVER BAD
DOWN BOY!!!!

:twisted:

I am half heeb (racially, I think religion is silly), but that doesn't affect my ability to place blame where it belongs in the Israel/Palestine mess. I do hate Sharon for many reasons: His horrendous human rights record in the IDF, inciting the al-asqa intifada and then coming to power on the instibility that ensued.

But the problem didn't start with Sharon. Zionists started emigrating from Europe to Palestine in the late 1800's with the intent of displacing its arab residents and founding an entirely Jewish state. They did the same thing that European down-and-outs had been doing for centuries, they found a chunk of land and began colonizing it. They didn't have the numbers to totally conquer Palestine until after WW2, when Jews started pouring out of Europe and into Palestine.

Radical zionists used 'terrorism' to get the British out (they didn't blow up buses or anything, but they blew up British buildings like that King David hotel and oil pipelines and such, and they assassinated some British officials). Once the Brits jumped ship, they used their European training, automatic weapons, tanks and planes to soak the Arabs thorougly.
I guess I don't really have a point for this, history is history and the Jews are there to stay. Both sides now need to work on curbing extremists from their own race so the moderates can work things out. The majority of both populations want peace, but the extremists have a way of speaking for everyone.

If the solution were up to me, I'd bag the two-state plan. If there is ever to be peace between Arab and Jew, then both sides need to see that they're all the same friggin people. What they need is one state: a TRULY representative, secular democracy with equal rights and equal protection before the law. I think that a Palestinian state would be a breeding ground for anti-Jewish violence, because it would reinforce the notion that Jews and Arabs are different, that they are enemies who need to be separated. Many Jews and Arabs living in Israel/Palestine understand that this is false, but the incessant violence (thanks to the IDF and Palestinian guerilla's eye for an eye mentality) are polarizing more people every day. A solution based on racism will never bring peace, only one based on representation for all.

Hasn't Said been advocating this for years now? I'm not sure how well this would work though. There is years of distrust and fear amongst both sides of the conflict, and I don't think there would be much support amongst Israeli's to have Palestinians moving in amongst them, maybe Womblington can give a better perspective on this. In theory, I think it sounds like a good plan, by using the strengths of both sides to make a stronger country with ties to both the Western and the Arab world, it would definately be interesting to say the least. It would be important though to ensure that Palestinians were actually equally represented, and allowed equal access to politics, education, the work force, the military, etc to breed a strong nationalist pride towards the combined state, but I'm not sure if either side could drop their long standing polar differences and distrusts long enough to develop that pride.

I have to back you up here, I know many Jewish people that are very against what Israel is doing.. There is a huge difference between being Jewish.. and being an Israeli.. at least for some. I have had some of the best discussions with Jewish people about Israel.. and they were completely objective.

Just some terminology clarifications:

- Being pro-Israel doesn't necessarily mean being in favor of Israeli violence against Palestinian civilians. I doubt that the Israeli Doves, for instance, see themselves as being "anti-Israel".

- The term "Israeli" is a nationality, and doesn't describe ANY ideological stance, merely someone's citizenship. One can be an Israeli and hold any sort of political or ideological opinion reg. Israel.

Lmao. I picture a massive group of jews, from all countries of the world gathering together one night under a banner saying "Jews against Israel" carrying torches and marching toward Israel shouting obscenities.

There are actually many such Jewish anti-Zionist groups; they mainly emenate from the secular-far left and the right-wing religious fundementalists.

It's actually more sad than anything else.

How can you not? You can't say you wouldn't absolutely love it if Sharon were assassinated by a jew.

I find that disgusting, actually. I don't wish death on Sharon, Arafat, or even Bush. As far as I know, I don't wish death on any presently-living politician.

But the problem didn't start with Sharon. Zionists started emigrating from Europe to Palestine in the late 1800's with the intent of displacing its arab residents and founding an entirely Jewish state. They did the same thing that European down-and-outs had been doing for centuries, they found a chunk of land and began colonizing it. They didn't have the numbers to totally conquer Palestine until after WW2, when Jews started pouring out of Europe and into Palestine.

That's a rather skewed view of the founding of Israel. There was never any intent on displacing anyone. Not recognizing local Arabs was a fault of many Zionists, but if you read the detailed stories behind the founding of Israel, the Zionists had no intention of doing any such thing.

The reason that most Palestinians were displaced was because six Arab states rejected the 1947 UN Partition plan by invading Palestine with the stated intent of massacring the Jews living there and finishing Hitlers work.

After they lost, they used the existence of Israel to declare states of emergency that still exist today and hold back any real democracy and reform in the Arab world.


If the solution were up to me, I'd bag the two-state plan. If there is ever to be peace between Arab and Jew, then both sides need to see that they're all the same friggin people. What they need is one state: a TRULY representative, secular democracy with equal rights and equal protection before the law. I think that a Palestinian state would be a breeding ground for anti-Jewish violence, because it would reinforce the notion that Jews and Arabs are different, that they are enemies who need to be separated. Many Jews and Arabs living in Israel/Palestine understand that this is false, but the incessant violence (thanks to the IDF and Palestinian guerilla's eye for an eye mentality) are polarizing more people every day. A solution based on racism will never bring peace, only one based on representation for all.

I think many Jews and Arabs understand that their differences are highly real. There are 22 Arab countries out there and no Jewish one. In fact, Jews are banned from living in most of these countries. Despite this, Palestinians need a state as much as Jews need a state.

Recognizing two distinct peoples is not racism. It's pleuralism, which is as good as one can get in a region like the Middle East.

And Just because I love Childeren Doesn't mean Im a peadophile!

...

Yeah! Yeah thats right!