NationStates Jolt Archive

Following on from my comments on the ‘Why does the world hate America?’ thread. Do you think the US deserves the support it is given?
So lets stay off the whole hate thing.
The UK for example has shown a great deal of support for the US in the past and present. However we a subject to the same punitive tariffs that are applied to those who do not support the US. When UK territory was invaded it took some pretty strong play from demon Maggie to get the US to give any sort of support, I don’t mean weapons etc just to get the to let us over fly etc.
Considering how often the US has flow combat missions from UK soil do you think they give enough back?
Just a thought, I just think they could back this ‘special relationship’ up with action a bit.
I could be wrong, and am happy if it can be demonstrated that after all that we have given the US they have given as much back.

The US in the past has seemed very slow to send assistance to their allies in times of war. A large amount of the countries filling out the numbers of the 'coalition of the willing' seem to be there just to get on Americas good side.
I make life better

I was just about to paste that in here :(

I was just about to paste that in here :(

I MAKE life better!

The US in the past has seemed very slow to send assistance to their allies in times of war. A large amount of the countries filling out the numbers of the 'coalition of the willing' seem to be there just to get on Americas good side.
I make life better
So are you saying that the UK is there to make up the numbers?
We have proportionaly more troops there than the US.

I was just about to paste that in here :(

I MAKE life better!

I guess....

I wish we would give more support to our allies when it came to international relations. The UK has always been there for us, and we need to return that favor every chance we get. The same with Canada, Japan, and Australia. We need to be more active in our international alliances like NATO.

The US in the past has seemed very slow to send assistance to their allies in times of war. A large amount of the countries filling out the numbers of the 'coalition of the willing' seem to be there just to get on Americas good side.
I make life better
So are you saying that the UK is there to make up the numbers?
We have proportionaly more troops there than the US.

Explaining why I wrote 'large amount' as opposed to 'all'

Following on from my comments on the ‘Why does the world hate America?’ thread. Do you think the US deserves the support it is given?
So lets stay off the whole hate thing.
The UK for example has shown a great deal of support for the US in the past and present. However we a subject to the same punitive tariffs that are applied to those who do not support the US. When UK territory was invaded it took some pretty strong play from demon Maggie to get the US to give any sort of support, I don’t mean weapons etc just to get the to let us over fly etc.
Considering how often the US has flow combat missions from UK soil do you think they give enough back?
Just a thought, I just think they could back this ‘special relationship’ up with action a bit.
I could be wrong, and am happy if it can be demonstrated that after all that we have given the US they have given as much back.

no, we just screw everybody up the ass and just dont give a shit! god i love my country!

national best short-term interest, end of story.
Seriously though, the UK is no ally to the US. An ally would have tryed to save the US from going to an useless and costly war which damaged so much US's international prestige. Instead, the UK supported Bush in his plan to suck the oil at the expense of the US, Iraq and the world.

national best short-term interest, end of story.
Seriously though, the UK is no ally to the US. An ally would have tryed to save the US from going to an useless and costly war which damaged so much US's international prestige. Instead, the UK supported Bush in his plan to suck the oil at the expense of the US, Iraq and the world.

so all the arab countries are americas allies and the uk, australia, poland, spain (at the time) etc were all its enemies?

id better watch out for "shock and awe" coming to a town near me

Australia loves the US! Well, not quite ... the Howard government does. We even got nice Free trade agreement out of our cooperation with US on Iraq. Another benefit we can buy ex-US Army junk to use in our armed forces, the same stuff which no one wants even the US gave it them. w00t!

Following on from my comments on the ‘Why does the world hate America?’ thread. Do you think the US deserves the support it is given?
So lets stay off the whole hate thing.
The UK for example has shown a great deal of support for the US in the past and present. However we a subject to the same punitive tariffs that are applied to those who do not support the US. When UK territory was invaded it took some pretty strong play from demon Maggie to get the US to give any sort of support, I don’t mean weapons etc just to get the to let us over fly etc.
Considering how often the US has flow combat missions from UK soil do you think they give enough back?
Just a thought, I just think they could back this ‘special relationship’ up with action a bit.
I could be wrong, and am happy if it can be demonstrated that after all that we have given the US they have given as much back.

Maybe because its not our problem if Europe is invaded by the nazis. MAybe its not our problem if UK is going after the columvbians for invading some frozen rocks in the south Pacific. Anyway, I agree the US has been too slow in helping out its allies. I especially don't understand the wastefull Falklands war that all brits seem to say that it was a waste of time and then people going off on how the US never suported in a war that was so stupid anyways.

so all the arab countries are americas allies and the uk, australia, poland, spain (at the time) etc were all its enemies?

id better watch out for "shock and awe" coming to a town near meOops sorry I forgot, the world is with the US or against it. Then I suppose they're all enemies of the US.

Maybe because its not our problem if Europe is invaded by the nazis.Exactly ... Until the nazis declare war on the US as well.

Australia loves the US! Well, not quite ... the Howard government does. We even got nice Free trade agreement out of our cooperation with US on Iraq. Another benefit we can buy ex-US Army junk to use in our armed forces, the same stuff which no one wants even the US gave it them. w00t!

I wouldn't exactly believe the US when they say free trade. Canada has a free trade agreement with the US and they put tarriffs on many things. I think we should just stop sending them energy, but you know, then they'd attack us :P

MAybe its not our problem if UK is going after the columvbians for invading some frozen rocks in the south Pacific.

Argentina not Colombia.

MAybe its not our problem if UK is going after the columvbians for invading some frozen rocks in the south Pacific.

Argentina not Colombia. And BTW wasn't it in the south atlantic?

First off, let's list the allies. Then let's examine the support. Talking generalizations is useless.

MAybe its not our problem if UK is going after the columvbians for invading some frozen rocks in the south Pacific.

Argentina not Colombia. And BTW wasn't it in the south atlantic?

Aye it's a good job they didn't join in otherwise they'd have nuked Easter Island and bombed Santiago.

no, we just screw everybody up the ass and just dont give a shit! god i love my country!
Thus we see that the US is a liability, not an ally, to the rest of the world.

The following governments have either pledged troops, funds, or a kind word of support:

Afghanistan
Albania
Angola
Australia
Azerbaijan
Bulgaria
Colombia
Costa Rica
Czech Republic
Denmark
Dominican Republic
El Salvador
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Georgia
Honduras
Hungary
Iceland
Italy
Japan
Kuwait
Latvia
Lithuania
Macedonia
Marshall Islands
Micronesia
Mongolia
Netherlands
Nicaragua
Palau
Panama
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Rwanda
Singapore
Slovakia
Solomon Islands
South Korea
Spain
Tonga
Turkey
Uganda
Ukraine
United Kingdom
United States
Uzbekistan
(Available at the White House website)

Three governments are leaving or have already left:

Spain
Honduras
Dominican Republic

The U.S. has alot of allies outside this bunch such as Taiwan, Chile, Greece, Germany, France, etc...

As far as screwing allies over; I don't see how. They were given a choice and some went while others didn't. The fact that the U.S. may be reshaping its alliances is perfectly normal. Did anyone believe that the old Cold War alliance would last after the fall of the Soviet Union?

The balance of power is shifting away from Europe and into the Asian area; the U.S. is simply going with the flow. European nations have for the most part small armies, obsolete equipment, and low R&D in military equipment. Some of them have large economic clout, however, from what I see in terms of economic figures things aren't going well on the continent.(I exclude the U.K. here)

Alot of the U.S. allies aren't leading major invasions or interventions because they don't have the manpower or the equipment to do so. The U.S. has also stated its dislike for peacekeeping missions after the Somalia debacle. The U.S. provides help to those allies who prove their worthiness; Turkey has had a near free hand when dealing with Kurds/Armenians, Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia are rarely chastised by the U.S., Colombia receives tons of military aid, Poland gets preferencial treatment on U.S. military contracts, Mongolia got a Free trade agreement (Don't ask me why, I got no clue), Taiwan gets to remain independent somewhat and so on. These governments do get help in the form of funding and the backing of the world's superpower. As for the U.K. I'm rather sure that if a second Falkland Island-like incident were to occur then the U.S. would give its backing to whatever the Brits decide to do.

I think the real question is, do America's allies show her enough support?

Three governments are leaving or have already left:

Spain

Did Spain automatically stop being an ally just because she is pulling her troops out of Iraq?

It was appalled at the way in which the more rabid ends of the American media turned on Spain and accused them of giving into terror and being traitors to their allies and cowards... all while Spain was still burying her dead.

I don't recall the Spanish media crowing over the 9/11 attacks.

Absolutely symptomatic of the USA's arrogance.

With allies like you who needs enemies.

Three governments are leaving or have already left:

Spain

Did Spain automatically stop being an ally just because she is pulling her troops out of Iraq?

It was appalled at the way in which the more rabid ends of the American media turned on Spain and accused them of giving into terror and being traitors to their allies and cowards... all while Spain was still burying her dead.

I don't recall the Spanish media crowing over the 9/11 attacks.

Absolutely symptomatic of the USA's arrogance.

With allies like you who needs enemies.

Three governments are leaving or have already left:

Spain

Did Spain automatically stop being an ally just because she is pulling her troops out of Iraq?

It was appalled at the way in which the more rabid ends of the American media turned on Spain and accused them of giving into terror and being traitors to their allies and cowards... all while Spain was still burying her dead.

I don't recall the Spanish media crowing over the 9/11 attacks.

Absolutely symptomatic of the USA's arrogance.

With allies like you who needs enemies.

they've proved they'll run at the sight of blood, what's the point of counting them as an ally?

Following on from my comments on the ‘Why does the world hate America?’ thread. Do you think the US deserves the support it is given?
So lets stay off the whole hate thing.
The UK for example has shown a great deal of support for the US in the past and present. However we a subject to the same punitive tariffs that are applied to those who do not support the US. When UK territory was invaded it took some pretty strong play from demon Maggie to get the US to give any sort of support, I don’t mean weapons etc just to get the to let us over fly etc.
Considering how often the US has flow combat missions from UK soil do you think they give enough back?
Just a thought, I just think they could back this ‘special relationship’ up with action a bit.
I could be wrong, and am happy if it can be demonstrated that after all that we have given the US they have given as much back.Name any ally of the US that has given more economic or military aide to the US than they have been given by the US. Name any in which it is close to equal. If it is to be quid pro quo, it seems the US has some support and aide coming. Doesn't it?

Following on from my comments on the ‘Why does the world hate America?’ thread. Do you think the US deserves the support it is given?
So lets stay off the whole hate thing.
The UK for example has shown a great deal of support for the US in the past and present. However we a subject to the same punitive tariffs that are applied to those who do not support the US. When UK territory was invaded it took some pretty strong play from demon Maggie to get the US to give any sort of support, I don’t mean weapons etc just to get the to let us over fly etc.
Considering how often the US has flow combat missions from UK soil do you think they give enough back?
Just a thought, I just think they could back this ‘special relationship’ up with action a bit.
I could be wrong, and am happy if it can be demonstrated that after all that we have given the US they have given as much back.Name any ally of the US that has given more economic or military aide to the US than they have been given by the US. Name any in which it is close to equal. If it is to be quid pro quo, it seems the US has some support and aide coming. Doesn't it?

The following governments have either pledged troops, funds, or a kind word of support:

Afghanistan
Albania
Angola
Australia
Azerbaijan
Bulgaria
Colombia
Costa Rica
Czech Republic
Denmark
Dominican Republic
El Salvador
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Georgia
Honduras
Hungary
Iceland
Italy
Japan
Kuwait
Latvia
Lithuania
Macedonia
Marshall Islands
Micronesia
Mongolia
Netherlands
Nicaragua
Palau
Panama
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Rwanda
Singapore
Slovakia
Solomon Islands
South Korea
Spain
Tonga
Turkey
Uganda
Ukraine
United Kingdom
United States
Uzbekistan
(Available at the White House website)

Three governments are leaving or have already left:

Spain
Honduras
Dominican Republic

The U.S. has alot of allies outside this bunch such as Taiwan, Chile, Greece, Germany, France, etc...

As far as screwing allies over; I don't see how. They were given a choice and some went while others didn't. The fact that the U.S. may be reshaping its alliances is perfectly normal. Did anyone believe that the old Cold War alliance would last after the fall of the Soviet Union?

The balance of power is shifting away from Europe and into the Asian area; the U.S. is simply going with the flow. European nations have for the most part small armies, obsolete equipment, and low R&D in military equipment. Some of them have large economic clout, however, from what I see in terms of economic figures things aren't going well on the continent.(I exclude the U.K. here)

Alot of the U.S. allies aren't leading major invasions or interventions because they don't have the manpower or the equipment to do so. The U.S. has also stated its dislike for peacekeeping missions after the Somalia debacle. The U.S. provides help to those allies who prove their worthiness; Turkey has had a near free hand when dealing with Kurds/Armenians, Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia are rarely chastised by the U.S., Colombia receives tons of military aid, Poland gets preferencial treatment on U.S. military contracts, Mongolia got a Free trade agreement (Don't ask me why, I got no clue), Taiwan gets to remain independent somewhat and so on. These governments do get help in the form of funding and the backing of the world's superpower. As for the U.K. I'm rather sure that if a second Falkland Island-like incident were to occur then the U.S. would give its backing to whatever the Brits decide to do.



France an allie of the US?
In the new world, democracries like France (and the majority of the EU) are completely oppose the Rumsfeldway of democracy...

As a matter of fact I dont think the US shows sufficient loyalty

they've proved they'll run at the sight of blood, what's the point of counting them as an ally?

good point. why should we have allies that dont fight our oil wars for us? i say we nuke all of europe, from spain all the way till the end of russia, making sure to hit poland especially hard cause all polish people are just a bunch of pussy commies.

I wish we would give more support to our allies when it came to international relations. The UK has always been there for us, and we need to return that favor every chance we get. The same with Canada, Japan, and Australia. We need to be more active in our international alliances like NATO.


:roll:

Greece isn't really what I would call an ally, and many of those nations on that list really aren't allied with us so much as they are interested in containing the mess in Iraq

no, we just screw everybody up the ass and just dont give a shit! god i love my country!
Thus we see that the US is a liability, not an ally, to the rest of the world.


:roll:

Are you retarded? America is the only reason WW3 hasn't happened yet. America has NEVER screwed over Europe, NEVER! Take your left wing lies and shove them up your narrow ass!

Proves that this Left-Wing hellhole doesn't let you speak your mind and fears the truth!

An ally would have tryed to save the US from going to an useless and costly war which damaged so much US's international prestige.

This is exactly why Canada was being a great friend to the U.S. people by not supporting the Bush invasion of Iraq (which history *will* record as an idiotic blunder & tragedy like Viet Nam was). We were following the wishes of the right-thinking & moral Democrat majority of American citizens. Y'all don't need to thank us though.

Proves that this Left-Wing hellhole doesn't let you speak your mind and fears the truth!
You are correct on this point. Telegram me if you see this.

Are you retarded? America is the only reason WW3 hasn't happened yet. America has NEVER screwed over Europe, NEVER! Take your left wing lies and shove them up your narrow ass!
Well put. Though I would put nuclear weaponry as the primary reason for the non-occurence of World War Three. You should also telegram me if you see this. Adios. One isn't allowed to speak frankly with the left-wing neo-hippies on this forum, so you ought to tone it down a bit if you do indeed return. If you flame people but toe the moderators' vitriolic anti-American line, you won't be deleted, though, so it's best to just ignore a lot of the people on this forum.

This is exactly why Canada was being a great friend to the U.S. people by not supporting the Bush invasion of Iraq (which history *will* record as an idiotic blunder & tragedy like Viet Nam was). We were following the wishes of the right-thinking & moral Democrat majority of American citizens. Y'all don't need to thank us though.
Right, right-thinking moral Democrat with a capital D. Translated: All Republicans are evil immoral bastards, and any of their arguments must therefore be automatically discounted as having not a modicum of merit.

no, we just screw everybody up the ass and just dont give a shit! god i love my country!
Thus we see that the US is a liability, not an ally, to the rest of the world.


:roll:

Are you retarded? America is the only reason WW3 hasn't happened yet. America has NEVER screwed over Europe, NEVER! Take your left wing lies and shove them up your narrow ass!
Three things are funny about this post. First that it shows the worst the US has to offer the world, second that if you show any kind of social conscience or move away from right wing neo nazi positions you are labelled a commie and thirdly that being labelled a commie is thought by those narrow minded individuals that have suck up all the cold war brain washing to be an insult.

I am far from a commie, but find no insult in being called one as I respect anyone who would choose to live that way (just don’t include me in the revolution).

From the replies to the initial question, it appears to be a mixed response. But there are a few points I would like to address. Firstly, the we have given this much so expect the same in return argument (same one used by my six year old). The US has ten times the population of the UK (approx) but has just over twice the number of troops in Iraq (nearly three times). What help was given by the US to the UK in WWII was paid for by the UK and we are still paying. However Radar, nuclear secrets, the RR engine that powered the Mustang, the Jet engine, super sonic research papers (the tilting tail plane specifically) were all given freely to our allies the US.

As a nation we are expected to do all we can to prevent terrorism against and murder of US citizens (rightly so). We are expected to seize their assets, stop them recruiting and raising money, take action to prevent them and generally do the right thing. All this despite the failure of our allies to do the same for us against terrorist organisations working against us and our people over a period of thirty years (the IRA, thanks New York for paying for the murder of our children, women and workers).

So as much as I want to like America as I do the people I have met from there, I find it hard to believe that we will get the same level of commitment from that nation when we need it. As I stated we did not get it during the Falklands and that had greater justification than the conflict we find ourselves in now.

‘In the field of world policy, I would dedicate this nation to the policy of a good neighbour.’

A feeling that does not appear to have been passed down.

But I still like ya, like a cousin who won't behave and gets you into trouble but you can't help but have a soft spot for.

The following governments have either pledged troops, funds, or a kind word of support:

Afghanistan
either with US or against US.
next : Iraq, iran and north korea.

The following populations has pledge their opposition to the war (that makes them enemy to the US) :

UK
Spain
Italy
France
Germany
China
US
Russia
Japan
South Korea
...
Do I need to continue?

Bringing it back to the topic at hand, let's consider the times the U.S. has gone to the wall to preserve an Ally in desperate times:

Vietnam
Korea
Taiwan.

I won't bring up the whole European war, since everyone here just knows it was the Soviets that saved Europe.

Vietnam: Twelve years, 50,000 American Combat Personnel dead, by the end of it, the U.S.'s name internationally was "Mud", while domestically, the American Left (many of whom now chant INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION) managed to get Nixon in, then out, and force us to bail, leaving the whole region of Indochina to the tender mercies of Revolutionary Vanguards like the Khmer Rouge.

Korea-the first U.N. war. ended by Cease-Fire, left us with N. Korea's loony dictatorship and a permanent commitment to defend the DMZ.

Taiwan. Vietnam without the Bloodshed, our "allies" decided that the only western-friendly government in the area was less desirable than Mao's Worker's Paradise, and talked (Nixon) into betraying a loyal ally for leverage.

Hmmm...

No, generally when we listen to the "international Community" we end up stabbing our most vulnerable allies in the back in hopes of winning the approval of Pundits in New York and France.

Sorry about the Falkland Islands thing-you gotta understand, Carter was the President, and he was busy negotiating with Terrorists in Iran and condemning the Soviets for invading Afghanistan with Extreme twisted hankies.

The following governments have either pledged troops, funds, or a kind word of support:

Afghanistan
either with US or against US.
next : Iraq, iran and north korea.

The following populations has pledge their opposition to the war (that makes them enemy to the US) :

UK
Spain
Italy
France
Germany
China
US
Russia
Japan
South Korea
...
Do I need to continue?
Oh, right, all of those nations opposed the war in Iraq solely out of altruism, and a deep sense of caring for the Iraqi people. The debt owed to the Russians, Germans, Chinese and French by the Iraqis had nothing to do with it, right? I suppose their agreements to buy Iraqi oil at below-market prices following the end of sanctions had nothing to do with it either. The UK, Japan, and Spain pledged their opposition to the war, yet provided troops? Oh, you must be talking about a certain segment of the population, but since they provide you with a clever lie with which you can promote your views, you paint them as representing the entirety of their nations.
As for your assertion that Americans regard anyone who disagrees with them as their enemies, that's plain bullshit, so I won't even touch it.

The UK, Japan, and Spain pledged their opposition to the war, yet provided troops? Oh, you must be talking about a certain segment of the population. I don't have the numbers for Japan (I think it is around 80%)
Anyway, for UK : 90% against the war
Spain : 92% against
France : 85% against
US : 51% against

Oh, right, all of those nations opposed the war in Iraq solely out of altruism, and a deep sense of caring for the Iraqi people. The debt owed to the Russians, Germans, Chinese and French by the Iraqis had nothing to do with it, right? I suppose their agreements to buy Iraqi oil at below-market prices following the end of sanctions had nothing to do with it either.BTW the debt was owed to the government of these countries, not to the people. I'm talking about population support, as opposed to government support. Even the US is in the anti-war camp as you can see in the latest polls.

... the right-thinking & moral Democrat majority of American citizens.
Right, right-thinking moral Democrat with a capital D. Translated: All Republicans are evil immoral bastards, and any of their arguments must therefore be automatically discounted as having not a modicum of merit.

Oh, I wouldn't take it that far - I was kinda just yankin' GOP chain with that statement. It's an election year after all, right? Thanks for not disappointing me :wink:

Three governments are leaving or have already left:

Spain

Did Spain automatically stop being an ally just because she is pulling her troops out of Iraq?

It was appalled at the way in which the more rabid ends of the American media turned on Spain and accused them of giving into terror and being traitors to their allies and cowards... all while Spain was still burying her dead.

I don't recall the Spanish media crowing over the 9/11 attacks.

Absolutely symptomatic of the USA's arrogance.

With allies like you who needs enemies.

they've proved they'll run at the sight of blood, what's the point of counting them as an ally?

Exactly the kind of attitude I'm talking about. They lend support and troops to the war in Iraq despite it being massively unpopular with the population.

They suffer carnage as a result and while they cry and bury their dead you sneer that they let down the almighty US of A.

When the next terrorist attack occurs on American soil, and God forbid it ever does, I'll wager very few Spaniards would sneer at your loss.

Who needs enemies when you've got allies like that. :roll:

... the right-thinking & moral Democrat majority of American citizens.
Right, right-thinking moral Democrat with a capital D. Translated: All Republicans are evil immoral bastards, and any of their arguments must therefore be automatically discounted as having not a modicum of merit.

Oh, I wouldn't take it that far - I was kinda just yankin' GOP chain with that statement. It's an election year after all, right? Thanks for not disappointing me :wink:
Well, considering the type of people that frequent this forum, chances are that a statement like that would have been completely serious.