NationStates Jolt Archive

Fundamentalist bigotry

Re Your View, "Goes by Scriptures,' Hal Mills (May 2):

The letter by Hal Mills is a prime example of the bigotry of the Christian fundamentalists and their attempts to turn America into a theocratic dictatorship. He, like other writers who support repealing the U.S. Constitution, attempts to jam Christianity down everyone's throat. Even against the will of those who are not Christians.

I will say this again: America is not based on Christian ideals. This is supported by public documents signed by the founders. Again, the Christian creator is not the only one. As one who cherishes religious freedom, I will not pay homage to Mr. false god. Indeed, history has shown that all religions, including the Christian religion, to be false religion. I for one, don't subscribe to false religions.

I think it very disrespectful for Mills and other anti-freedom activists to declare that other people's belief systems are invalid. It is also anti-American. But then again, we all know the Christians in America originally sided with Hitler. The only reason that changed was because of Pearl Harbor.

It is also known that Christian fundamentalists condoned slavery, spousal abuse, child abuse, and indeed even today they condone violent rape. Nay, I have no respect whatever for the Christian religion, and I oppose all efforts to base our laws on the false religion of Christianity.

Robert Canales

Whittier


But I don't understand it.
I got it from todays Whittier Daily News.

We have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.

95% of the world believes in "god" in one way or another. "Creator" is a generic term to symbolize whatever God people believe gave us our blessed promised land.

We have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.

95% of the world believes in "god" in one way or another. "Creator" is a generic term to symbolize whatever God people believe gave us our blessed promised land.
So creator does not just mean the christian God? But I thought every American was christian.

But then again, we all know the Christians in America originally sided with Hitler. The only reason that changed was because of Pearl Harbor

Oh lord. I could spend the next 8 hours pointing out how invalid that comment is but if someone really believes that then there is no swaying them. How terribly sad.

We have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.

95% of the world believes in "god" in one way or another. "Creator" is a generic term to symbolize whatever God people believe gave us our blessed promised land.
So creator does not just mean the christian God? But I thought every American was christian.Not hardly.

We have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.

95% of the world believes in "god" in one way or another. "Creator" is a generic term to symbolize whatever God people believe gave us our blessed promised land.
So creator does not just mean the christian God? But I thought every American was christian.Not hardly.
not all americans are christians, just the majority

We have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.

95% of the world believes in "god" in one way or another. "Creator" is a generic term to symbolize whatever God people believe gave us our blessed promised land.
So creator does not just mean the christian God? But I thought every American was christian.

Where did you get that idea? For Pete's sakes, if you listen to some, not even every Christian is a Christian.

We have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.
Actually, if we so choose as individuals, we do have freedom from religion. We have the right to be atheist or agnostic if we choose. The government does not have the right to impose belief upon us.

But Focus on the Family said that America is a christian nation based on christian laws. They even said they represented all Americans. So does that not mean that all Americans are christians?

We have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.

we... don't... have... freedom... from... religion? like we have a choice about what to beleive, but we HAVE to beleive something? i'm sure you're aware that the word 'except' cannot really occur when talking about freedom.

95% of the world believes in "god" in one way or another. "Creator" is a generic term to symbolize whatever God people believe gave us our blessed promised land.

hmm... america wasn't given to anyone, it was taken. in fact, if god had been interested i'm sure he would have blown the conquistadors and bigoted pilgrims away before they landed and caused any trouble. and btw, of that 95%, more than half probably don't really have the option of denouncing their faith in public.

dont you think :lol:

Painting with a broad brush. Emphasizing the bad done by a loud few while ignoring the good done by others. Returning intolerance for intolerance, and bigotry for bigotry. Lovely.

Yes, I would fear a fundamentalist theocracy. I woulld, however, also fear a government dominated by those who think like Mr. Canales.

95% of the world believes in "god" in one way or another.

Where did you pull that nonsense from?

Incidentally, saying two or more people both believe in God means little more than saying they believe in something. Good luck finding any majority of people who mean the same thing by the vague term "God."

[Wth? First I get a DP, then I delete one to find the other post gone. Grrr.]

We have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.

Actually that would be incorrect Ray.. Freedom OF certainly implies freedom FROM.. thus separation of church & state.. again, it's not written into the 1st Amendment, but every court accepts that is what is implied.

I some times wonder if you live on the same planet as the rest of us Ray.. :lol:

But Focus on the Family said that America is a christian nation based on christian laws. They even said they represented all Americans. So does that not mean that all Americans are christians?To put it bluntly, Focus on the Family is full of shit.

Oh Mercy...a Christian Nation?...surely the largest religous sect is Christianity..but we are so much more..I am a Pagan..proud of it...a Native American...a practioner of a faith unique in itself.

Now...I will have to admit...that a majority of the Founding Fathers of this nation were in fact either Christian or Deists of some persuasion. Their faith was interwoven in their writings...Maryland was founded as a refuge for persecuted Catholics...New England was famous for it's Calvinists, the South for the Baptists and Methodists.

The Founding Fathers put many ideals into the Constitution and the Bill of Rights as well as the Declaration of Independence that would be considered "Christian" but are by no means exclusive to Christian belief structures..there are some theorists that postulate that the new Republic was modeled somewhat after the democratic ideals of the Iroquis Confederacy..

It is clear from their writings that they did not want another Church of England..an official State religion like England had...but Congress still to this day begins it's day with a prayer...it has a Congressional Chaplain. On it's currency is the motto In God We Trust....there is every indication that the Founding Fathers would not have objected to Christian ideals in any form or role only that they would have objected to every citizen being forced to join a state church.

:puts hands over eyes: I can't believe a Pagan is defending Christians..I may need therapy..lol...

Actually Chief Justice William Rehnquist has repeatedly stated that separation of church and state isn't a valid concept and that religion should be central to the United States. What a frightening concept to have one religion deemed more important than another.

Actually Chief Justice William Rehnquist has repeatedly stated that separation of church and state isn't a valid concept and that religion should be central to the United States. What a frightening concept to have one religion deemed more important than another.Fortunately, there are currently only three Supreme Court justices who feel that way--Rehnquist, Scalia and Thomas. Which makes it that much more important to toss the evangelical out of office in November.

But Focus on the Family said that America is a christian nation based on christian laws. They even said they represented all Americans. So does that not mean that all Americans are christians?

Well, Focus on the Family is a special interest group that represents a very vocal minority and the laws of the US were not any more influenced by "Christian Law" than those of Europe, which is to say all Western Philosophy agrees with many general precepts to a certain extent.

Actually Chief Justice William Rehnquist has repeatedly stated that separation of church and state isn't a valid concept and that religion should be central to the United States. What a frightening concept to have one religion deemed more important than another.Fortunately, there are currently only three Supreme Court justices who feel that way--Rehnquist, Scalia and Thomas. Which makes it that much more important to toss the evangelical out of office in November.

Do they give any reasons for why they do not support seperation of church and state? I find it scary that three of the justices are against something which is so important in protecting individual rights.

Let's just hope this doesn't turn into a flaming forum topic. You know what I think? I think I'm sexy. Does this have anything to do with the topic? No. But now for my view.

As a Catholic, I believe that having any religions views are good, but that doesn't mean that you should jam down your beliefs down the throats of atheists and pagans and what have yous. America was yes, based on Christian morals, but also seperation of church and state. That's why the Pilgrims came here, and that's how we should keep it. Yes I am a conservative, but Bush has gone a lil coo coo. So let's stop trying to justify our views. Besides I bet we can agree on one thing. The sun is bright, no one can disagree on that. Right?

The sun is bright, no one can disagree on that. Right?

Actually, it's quite cloudy here today. I find your provincialism to be very disturbing. :P :lol:

Do they give any reasons for why they do not support seperation of church and state? I find it scary that three of the justices are against something which is so important in protecting individual rights.They largely use the same old crap that most opponents of the separation of church and state use--that those words don't actually appear in the Constitution. They seem to forget that the basis for their power isn't spelled out either--the concept of judicial review--but is interpreted.

It's a bit of hypocrisy in Scalia's case as well, since he often argues that he's a strict constructionist except when it's inconvenient for him to be.

Do they give any reasons for why they do not support seperation of church and state? I find it scary that three of the justices are against something which is so important in protecting individual rights.They largely use the same old crap that most opponents of the separation of church and state use--that those words don't actually appear in the Constitution. They seem to forget that the basis for their power isn't spelled out either--the concept of judicial review--but is interpreted.

It's a bit of hypocrisy in Scalia's case as well, since he often argues that he's a strict constructionist except when it's inconvenient for him to be.

Scalia has set the whole image of Italian Americans back a hundred years by getting a position of power and acting like a mafioso in it. That man needs a guest starring spot on the Sopranos (and we always know how those end).

Listening in on the conversation, I am wondering where a certain someone got the Idea that all Americans are Christians. Now, unfortunetly, I live in the USA, but I am in no way Christian. I too am a pagan. One of the most ancient forms of celtic paganism ever. I am wiccan. And maybe some of you have heard about "Wiccans" and how we are witches and all that steriotypical shit. But even if you know some of those so called "Wiccans"... well most of them don't even know what it is about. It is like a stupid "Fad" that people are going through, which is dumb. To be a religion, you have to really believe in what you are doing, ya know? Practice what you preach.
And even the Christians I know are more pagan then christian, at least...some of them.

I knew someone was going to say that the sun wasn't sunny? Why? Just to piss me off. I hope you are happy. :cry: Also... plus 1 post :roll:

I knew someone was going to say that the sun wasn't sunny? Why? Just to piss me off. I hope you are happy. :cry: Also... plus 1 post :roll:


If it makes you feel better, it is nice and sunny where I live!!!

It don't matter to me. I live in Mi-a-mi! CUBAN MAFIA G XD. But seriously... I am surprised that no one has been flamed. I am honored to be surrounded by people with manners :shock: . That touches me in my special spot... which is my heart, ya ya my heart...

you ppls are ver slow at replying...

It don't matter to me. I live in Mi-a-mi! CUBAN MAFIA G XD. But seriously... I am surprised that no one has been flamed. I am honored to be surrounded by people with manners :shock: . That touches me in my special spot... which is my heart, ya ya my heart...


Yup, I am purty surprised too.
Well......Maybe not AS suprised, my manners are perfect... :wink: :wink:

We have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.

95% of the world believes in "god" in one way or another. "Creator" is a generic term to symbolize whatever God people believe gave us our blessed promised land.
So creator does not just mean the christian God? But I thought every American was christian.

Good lord no.

There are many Christians but they are not all the same group.
There are many Jews, Muslims, Hindu, Buddists.....

There are many Christians but they are not all the same group.
There are many Jews, Muslims, Hindu, Buddists.....

To add to that, there are a great many Wiccans too, even if we are more secretive then the Christians...

I loved the way I changed the topic so fast. Proves to me that ADD is not a disorder. :roll:

I loved the way I changed the topic so fast. Proves to me that ADD is not a disorder. :roll:

HERE HERE, my friend!! LOL :o :lol:

Posty posty postness. I wonder when the next post is going to be? :roll:

Hijack another thread will ya, preferably one that needs it like "What makes a person gay thread"....or the...."hottest girl pics" thread..we are trying to hold an adult conversation here....I know it's difficult..but not impossible to do.

Hey man sorry :roll: Don't gotta be so serious about it. Meh, these types of topics always get me down cause I always know what to expect. But could you at least asked a little nicer?

Painting with a broad brush. Emphasizing the bad done by a loud few while ignoring the good done by others. Returning intolerance for intolerance, and bigotry for bigotry. Lovely.

Yes, I would fear a fundamentalist theocracy. I woulld, however, also fear a government dominated by those who think like Mr. Mills.

Amen brother. On another subject though, if any of you have ever read a book titled "When corporations rule the world" You will notice that for those people who choose not to believe in anything, yes all the atheists and agnostics out there, you will notice that they usually worship money. It's not the act of not believing in something that bothers me, it's the fact that some people can't admit that they value money and physical pleasures more than anything else. People should stop worshiping the material and advances that we gain in our temporary existence here and start realizing there is more to life.

If you tell me that my system of beliefs is invalid, I say, "How can you be so sure that I'm not right and YOU'RE the one who is wrong?" Even the different Christian sects (Episcopal, Angelican, Catholic, Protestant...) can't agree on everything. Sometimes, people (Christians, in the case of America, because America is predominately Christian) are SO sure that they're right, they'll jam everything down your throat to make you believe. But the thing is, nobody can MAKE you believe anything. Unless they threaten to kill your or something - but then you'd pretend if you weren't a true believer. They can't control your mind to make you believe, just as they can't make you believe by protheslyzing your ears off. Here's my theory - if people want you to convert to their religion, they have to show you that it's good, moral (based on your moral standards) and a positive experience. Actions speak louder than words. People who think they can turn you into a true, god-fearing Christian by throwing a bunch of garbagy words around need a reality check.

(In case anyone's wondering, or just to prove the point that not all Americans are Christians, I'm not Christian. I have pagan friends. I have atheist friends. I have diest friends. I have "hopeful agnostic" friends. And I have Christian friends. They're my friends because they're good people, not because of their religion. And that's the way it should be.)

Seems to me that Mr. Mills was advocating that America change to a fundamentalist government.