NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, well, well. The same people who have been castigating the seven or so idiots (because that is what they are) at Abu Ghraib, are very quiet about the beheading of the non-combatant Nick Burg. Not that Yours-Truly is surprised. Those idiots at Abu Ghraib have absolutely no excuse. They are sick, and they deserve what's coming to them, even if what they did comes nowhere close to what went on inside that prison during the Saddam & Company days. The truth is, the world expects more and better of the United States, and 7 idiots have thrown it all away. Don't get me started on Lynddie England...even if she were not the mastermind (and that seems likely, seeing her own level of idiocy,) her actions are a slap in the face to all the women serving in the United States Armed Forces.

Having said that, where is the outrage amongst you about the ruthless beheading of an unarmed, unsuspecting guy who was simply looking for some work? I will never be able to shake the images out of my mind. I would call those who beheaded Nick Burg "pigs" or "animals," but that would be an insult to pigs and animals. To those of you who have been telling yourselves that Islam is a religion of peace, and they are only reacting to what we have done...wake up. They had no problem slaughtering 3000 on 9/11/01, and they had no problem slaughtering 200 or so in Bali, or almost 200 on 3/11/04 in Madrid...and as long as you keep trying to appease them, you're simply making their job easier for the next time.

It's a war, folks...we didn't start it, but it's up to us to bring it to an end. Appeasement will not do it.

Well, well, well. The same people who have been castigating the seven or so idiots (because that is what they are) at Abu Ghraib, are very quiet about the beheading of the non-combatant Nick Burg. Not that Yours-Truly is surprised. Those idiots at Abu Ghraib have absolutely no excuse. They are sick, and they deserve what's coming to them, even if what they did comes nowhere close to what went on inside that prison during the Saddam & Company days. The truth is, the world expects more and better of the United States, and 7 idiots have thrown it all away. Don't get me started on Lynddie England...even if she were not the mastermind (and that seems likely, seeing her own level of idiocy,) her actions are a slap in the face to all the women serving in the United States Armed Forces.

Having said that, where is the outrage amongst you about the ruthless beheading of an unarmed, unsuspecting guy who was simply looking for some work? I will never be able to shake the images out of my mind. I would call those who beheaded Nick Burg "pigs" or "animals," but that would be an insult to pigs and animals. To those of you who have been telling yourselves that Islam is a religion of peace, and they are only reacting to what we have done...wake up. They had no problem slaughtering 3000 on 9/11/01, and they had no problem slaughtering 200 or so in Bali, or almost 200 on 3/11/04 in Madrid...and as long as you keep trying to appease them, you're simply making their job easier for the next time.

It's a war, folks...we didn't start it, but it's up to us to bring it to an end. Appeasement will not do it.

I agree with all that you say the West needs to stand up to higher standers and we must teach these terrorists a lessen of what happens when you kill A Innocent person

I have already said before - murder is expected of murderers, so when it happens, there is little surprise.

The same is not expected of America. Hence the fuss. But no doubt when people get used to the idea of Americans acting in the manner of al-Qaeda, it will all pass into the same mundane reality.

It's a war, folks...we didn't start it, but it's up to us to bring it to an end. Appeasement will not do it.

Err? Did you miss something about who started it?

It's a war, folks...we didn't start it, but it's up to us to bring it to an end. Appeasement will not do it.
Err? Did you miss something about who started it?
Apparently, Iraq started it when it refused to surrender when it was told to. :roll:

islam is a peaceful religion. just as christianity is supposed to be. where's your outrage about the thousands of muslims recently massacred in africa by christian militants?

people do stupid, senseless and cruel things no matter what their race, gender or religion. it's not the religion that's at fault. it's people being jackasses.

Now, I wish people would stop killing one another, defining their planet with all these seemingly arbitrarily drawn borders, invading things, and being religious or capitalistic, but there's still general laws of relativity at work in human society.

Personally, though were it up to me I'd kick Death off the planet entirely, I'd rather have my head cut off after choosing to enter a warzone created by my own country than be dragged from my home by a gang of barbarians, locked up without charge, raped, attacked by dogs, and beaten to death.

But that's just me.

Now, I wish people would stop killing one another, defining their planet with all these seemingly arbitrarily drawn borders, invading things, and being religious or capitalistic, but there's still general laws of relativity at work in human society.

Personally, though were it up to me I'd kick Death off the planet entirely, I'd rather have my head cut off after choosing to enter a warzone created by my own country than be dragged from my home by a gang of barbarians, locked up without charge, raped, attacked by dogs, and beaten to death.

But that's just me.

yes, it is just you

That was a useful post. Once I post this one, AR, it won't even be the least useful or interesting in the thread!

islam is a peaceful religion. just as christianity is supposed to be. where's your outrage about the thousands of muslims recently massacred in africa by christian militants?

people do stupid, senseless and cruel things no matter what their race, gender or religion. it's not the religion that's at fault. it's people being jackasses.

Hear Hear!
The attitude of "us vs. them" is the cause of many of the acts in this war on terror. Al Qaida thinks "All americans are horible catialists working to exploit the middle east and expand israel" and (some) americans think "All Muslims have it out for democracy and happiness"

That was a useful post. Once I post this one, AR, it won't even be the least useful or interesting in the thread!

not at all :D

... choosing to enter a warzone....

Top 10 stupid things you can do...if you are Jewish.

1....expend the weekend in Sunniland.
2....

*Is silently outrages*

I can honestly say that when I was reading the article about Berg was the first time in my life that I have felt violent towards another person. Events like September 11th and the frequent bombings in Iraq and Afghanistan are somewhat impersonal if you or your loved ones are not directly involved, but this is very personal, and very sadistic. In the wake of the Abu Ghraib abuses this is particularly evident. If soldiers on either side of this conflict are willing to commit acts as horrendous as these, we can only pray for a speedy conclusion.

Well, well, well. The same people who have been castigating the seven or so idiots (because that is what they are) at Abu Ghraib, are very quiet about the beheading of the non-combatant Nick Burg. Not that Yours-Truly is surprised. Those idiots at Abu Ghraib have absolutely no excuse. They are sick, and they deserve what's coming to them, even if what they did comes nowhere close to what went on inside that prison during the Saddam & Company days. The truth is, the world expects more and better of the United States, and 7 idiots have thrown it all away. Don't get me started on Lynddie England...even if she were not the mastermind (and that seems likely, seeing her own level of idiocy,) her actions are a slap in the face to all the women serving in the United States Armed Forces.

Having said that, where is the outrage amongst you about the ruthless beheading of an unarmed, unsuspecting guy who was simply looking for some work? I will never be able to shake the images out of my mind. I would call those who beheaded Nick Burg "pigs" or "animals," but that would be an insult to pigs and animals. To those of you who have been telling yourselves that Islam is a religion of peace, and they are only reacting to what we have done...wake up. They had no problem slaughtering 3000 on 9/11/01, and they had no problem slaughtering 200 or so in Bali, or almost 200 on 3/11/04 in Madrid...and as long as you keep trying to appease them, you're simply making their job easier for the next time.

It's a war, folks...we didn't start it, but it's up to us to bring it to an end. Appeasement will not do it.

I'm not making any excuses for those criminals that hacked off that
Now,guys head on camera.

However, it's not that people "expect better" from Americans...
Look at it this way:

Al Qeda says "Death to America, we are here to kill Americans" and to see a video of them doing so...Well... It's savage and disgusting. But it's what they said they would do.

The USA says "We are here to FREE the Iraqi people and what matters most is that those rape rooms and torture chambers will never be used again...etc" (well...originally it was about WMD's...But who cares, right?).
So seeing a video of yanks torturing and sexually assaulting Iraqis is surprises some people.

I dont recall saying I was outraged.

Panhandlia, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that when you made the original post stating that only 6 or 7 soldiers were involved in the atrocities at Abu Ghraib, you hadn't heard the news today. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4855930/) Or seen the pictures. You know, the ones where there are military intelligence personnel instructing the MPs in what to do as regards the Iraqi prisoners. You know, this picture.
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040513/040513_abuse_hlg_3p.hlarge.jpg
Spc. Charles A. Graner Jr., leaning against the wall and labeled as No. 1, identified four other soldiers in this photograph (Nos. 4, 5, 7 and 8) as military intelligence officers. No. 2 is a civilian translator.

So you ask about the outrage--I want to ask you the same question. There are plenty of Republicans who are outraged about this treatment--Senators John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Ben Nighthorse Campbell and John Warner are at the forefront. But where's the outrage from the right at Tom DeLay? At James Inhofe? At the ignorant pundits like Hannity and Limbaugh and Ollie North who continue to claim that these acts were the equivalent of college pranks?

If you haven't found the outrage at the killing of Daniel Berg from the left, then you haven't been looking for it. It's out there. The problem is that the outrage from the left extends beyond the people who committed the act directly--it extends to the incompetent people who created the situation where Daniel Berg lost his life. We've been outraged for quite some time now, bub.

And we ain't getting over it any time soon.

Great, half the world calls us evil barbarians, tells us we suck, and that we should be more like them.
Another quarter calls us infidels and tells us to die.
And yet another quarter follows the first half, but holds us to 'higher standards'.
Tell you people what, you can all be a superpower for a day, and see how everybody else treats you.

Great, half the world calls us evil barbarians, tells us we suck, and that we should be more like them.
Another quarter calls us infidels and tells us to die.
And yet another quarter follows the first half, but holds us to 'higher standards'.
Tell you people what, you can all be a superpower for a day, and see how everybody else treats you.

As I stated before...Nobody holds you to a higher standard, but some people expect you guys to tell the truth.
If you had just said: "we are going to rape and torture people" instead of: "we are going to set people free" nobody would be surprised.

Great, half the world calls us evil barbarians, tells us we suck, and that we should be more like them.
Another quarter calls us infidels and tells us to die.
And yet another quarter follows the first half, but holds us to 'higher standards'.
Tell you people what, you can all be a superpower for a day, and see how everybody else treats you.

I don't think its difficult to see what any power would do in this situation: work to eliminate the casue of the abuse, and make sure it doesn't happen again. That fits everyone's standards, especially the United States'.

Great, half the world calls us evil barbarians, tells us we suck, and that we should be more like them.
Another quarter calls us infidels and tells us to die.
And yet another quarter follows the first half, but holds us to 'higher standards'.
Tell you people what, you can all be a superpower for a day, and see how everybody else treats you.You just don't get it--the US is held to a higher standard because we claim to be more moral and more righteous than any other nation. It's called "American exceptionalism." And as Senator Lindsey Graham said, "If you're going to claim to be the good guys, you've got to act like the good guys."

...Tell you people what, you can all be a superpower for a day, and see how everybody else treats you.
One of the things I would do different...
let Blix finish his job....

Well, well, well. The same people who have been castigating the seven or so idiots (because that is what they are) at Abu Ghraib, are very quiet about the beheading of the non-combatant Nick Burg. Not that Yours-Truly is surprised. Those idiots at Abu Ghraib have absolutely no excuse. They are sick, and they deserve what's coming to them, even if what they did comes nowhere close to what went on inside that prison during the Saddam & Company days. The truth is, the world expects more and better of the United States, and 7 idiots have thrown it all away. Don't get me started on Lynddie England...even if she were not the mastermind (and that seems likely, seeing her own level of idiocy,) her actions are a slap in the face to all the women serving in the United States Armed Forces.

Having said that, where is the outrage amongst you about the ruthless beheading of an unarmed, unsuspecting guy who was simply looking for some work? I will never be able to shake the images out of my mind. I would call those who beheaded Nick Burg "pigs" or "animals," but that would be an insult to pigs and animals. To those of you who have been telling yourselves that Islam is a religion of peace, and they are only reacting to what we have done...wake up. They had no problem slaughtering 3000 on 9/11/01, and they had no problem slaughtering 200 or so in Bali, or almost 200 on 3/11/04 in Madrid...and as long as you keep trying to appease them, you're simply making their job easier for the next time.

It's a war, folks...we didn't start it, but it's up to us to bring it to an end. Appeasement will not do it.
The war on Iraq WAS started by the US or did you forget? The Iraqis did NOT slaughter 3000 on 9/11, or in Bali, or in Madrid. Iraq is a separate issue.

Now having said that, I believe that the beheading is a heinous crime, but it is no less heinous than the Iraqis who were tortured to death. All same no difference. Ya and if you want to call them "pigs and animals", I quite agree.

You are looking for a "scapegoat", much like the administration is looking for a scapegoat, and if you look at the system, you will find the answers. AND there are more than 30 investigations in progress, so don't limit it to 7 people, and even one in particular.

BTW, I thought the war was over last May 2003 when Bush made his lavish entrance on that US carrier? Guess not huh?

...Tell you people what, you can all be a superpower for a day, and see how everybody else treats you.
One of the things I would do different...
let Blix finish his job....
BINGO!! Right answer Rev!!!!

Panhandlia, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that when you made the original post stating that only 6 or 7 soldiers were involved in the atrocities at Abu Ghraib, you hadn't heard the news today. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4855930/) Or seen the pictures. You know, the ones where there are military intelligence personnel instructing the MPs in what to do as regards the Iraqi prisoners. You know, this picture.
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040513/040513_abuse_hlg_3p.hlarge.jpg
Spc. Charles A. Graner Jr., leaning against the wall and labeled as No. 1, identified four other soldiers in this photograph (Nos. 4, 5, 7 and 8) as military intelligence officers. No. 2 is a civilian translator.

So you ask about the outrage--I want to ask you the same question. There are plenty of Republicans who are outraged about this treatment--Senators John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Ben Nighthorse Campbell and John Warner are at the forefront. But where's the outrage from the right at Tom DeLay? At James Inhofe? At the ignorant pundits like Hannity and Limbaugh and Ollie North who continue to claim that these acts were the equivalent of college pranks?

If you haven't found the outrage at the killing of Daniel Berg from the left, then you haven't been looking for it. It's out there. The problem is that the outrage from the left extends beyond the people who committed the act directly--it extends to the incompetent people who created the situation where Daniel Berg lost his life. We've been outraged for quite some time now, bub.

And we ain't getting over it any time soon.
AMEN!!!

I have already said before - murder is expected of murderers, so when it happens, there is little surprise.

The same is not expected of America. Hence the fuss. But no doubt when people get used to the idea of Americans acting in the manner of al-Qaeda, it will all pass into the same mundane reality.

There was little suprise with me for either of those things. I didn't expect the Americans to be nice to people that they took prisoner (95% of which are later released without charge). The red cross has said that prisoner abuse is widespread amoungst prison camps in Iraq. If this wasn't happening, then the Iraqis would most likely go back to seeing the Americans as liberators like they did to begin with.

I then wasn't suprised when the beheading happened, because thats the kind of reaction you have to expect from Al Queda. They didn't see him as a civilian, they saw him as an American. America (when they are fighting their real enemy Al Queda) are dealing with an opponent that will do anything to make a point, even if it is horribly and grossly over the top and particularly awful.