NationStates Jolt Archive

What is france's problem? The seem to be the symbol to European anti-americanism. I mean we havent done anything to them. We had ok trade relation with them. But when we threaten saddam they pull out their I HATE AMERICA T-shirts and banners? Why oppose us if its none of their business? I belive it is becuase iraq was a cash cow for them but is that all? :?

Just looking out for thier interestes, just like the USA is, just like Britain is, just like any nation does.

We didn't even take the "Freedom" thing too seriously

We didn't even take the "Freedom" thing too seriously

That was rather lame. :roll:

So are we supposed to call it freedom kissing now? :wink:

What is france's problem? The seem to be the symbol to European anti-americanism. I mean we havent done anything to them. We had ok trade relation with them. But when we threaten saddam they pull out their I HATE AMERICA T-shirts and banners? Why oppose us if its none of their business? I belive it is becuase iraq was a cash cow for them but is that all? :?


Ummm - it was GW And co who was making the "you're either for us or against us" type of statements. the "they're just old Europe - they have gone weak" comments from Rumsfeld. Implied that France was in the financial pockets of Saddam. Freedom Fries. Making statements to the effect that France questioning the existance of WMD was BS because the intel was ireonclad and known as such to all. American's threatening boycots of France unless they didn't join up.

People do get their backs up when given ultimatums. You ask for help - people may politely decline and kep things civil. You demand they come on board and insult them for not joining up - you have to expect a reaction.

-Z-

bush est un idiot ! :P

France doesn't really have a problem with the States, as much as since the Iraq incident....I am a Frenchman, I have no problem with Bush, just his war thing, I support him, in his march against abortion, and Gay marriage. France, is a great nation, and don't insult them, they felt threatened by the United States, and well, basically, it's normal, when a superpower is aiming to attack a place where oil is abundant. Well, what I am trying to say, it's maybe out of greed, or sympathy for Iraqi citizens. The war in Iraq is not justified, they did not find weapons of mass destruction, but they did eliminate Saddam Hussein, thumbs up Bush...

Contrary to popular opinion, anti-US sentiment in Europe did not just pop up because of the situation leading up to the Iraq war. It didn't start after 9/11 when Bush began pushing the world around.

Anti-US sentiment has been growing for decades. Also, I'll point out that before the big flub with Iraq, Europe was quite supportive of the US in its pursuit of badniks.

In the end, we hate each other. There is no cure for hatred. We'll grow old and die still hating each other. Welcome to the jungle. I've got my guns, have you yours?

Contrary to popular opinion, anti-US sentiment in Europe did not just pop up because of the situation leading up to the Iraq war. It didn't start after 9/11 when Bush began pushing the world around.

Anti-US sentiment has been growing for decades. Also, I'll point out that before the big flub with Iraq, Europe was quite supportive of the US in its pursuit of badniks.

In the end, we hate each other. There is no cure for hatred. We'll grow old and die still hating each other. Welcome to the jungle. I've got my guns, have you yours?

Unless you are talking about the Goverment, I have not felt any hatred.

Europe and the US are like siblings. They may fight all the time but if its something important, they will help each other. Germany has very opposed to Iraq and yet they have soldiers in Afghanistan.

Once the shrub is gone and the US gets out of Iraq, things will cool off.

France doesn't really have a problem with the States, as much as since the Iraq incident....I am a Frenchman, I have no problem with Bush, just his war thing, I support him, in his march against abortion, and Gay marriage. France, is a great nation, and don't insult them, they felt threatened by the United States, and well, basically, it's normal, when a superpower is aiming to attack a place where oil is abundant. Well, what I am trying to say, it's maybe out of greed, or sympathy for Iraqi citizens. The war in Iraq is not justified, they did not find weapons of mass destruction, but they did eliminate Saddam Hussein, thumbs up Bush...

I think some of the anti-French sentiment in the U.S. is due to the fact that the U.S. gave them a powerful position in the reconstruction after WWII, which they would not otherwise have gotten. Things went along fine and dandy as long as the French sided with America in the U.N., but when they disagreed...well, it was a big shock to the USA.

I don't think our government should be expecting the French to play along just because we put them in the U.N. Instead they should gracefully accept the consequences of putting a nation in a powerful place and having it disagree with them.

I have to agree with Zeppistan on this one. And besides, the war in iraq has generally shown poor planning on the part of the top people in charge and negative consequences all around. Besides, have you not noticed that GW kept changing his reasons for going in? First it was just to search for WMD's, then it changed to a more ideological drone of "toppling the evil iraqi dictator and installing peace yah blah blah etc." He also couldn't wait for the UN Weapons Inspectors to finish their investigation into the WMD allegations. This was important because it means that GW's allegations against Iraq reasons for going into Iraq may have been false and that that would have been found out. France may have seen this and rightly decided to keep out of an overall disgraceful campaign. I'm not saying that getting rid of Saddam was bad, its great as a matter of fact; but the operation and possible cover-up of motives was sloppily done. Then again, France may just be spouting anti-americanism. But i've traveled and know that as great as america is, the countries politicians put out a generally arrogant and controlling aura in regards to international opinion.

France doesn't really have a problem with the States, as much as since the Iraq incident....I am a Frenchman, I have no problem with Bush, just his war thing, I support him, in his march against abortion, and Gay marriage. France, is a great nation, and don't insult them, they felt threatened by the United States, and well, basically, it's normal, when a superpower is aiming to attack a place where oil is abundant. Well, what I am trying to say, it's maybe out of greed, or sympathy for Iraqi citizens. The war in Iraq is not justified, they did not find weapons of mass destruction, but they did eliminate Saddam Hussein, thumbs up Bush...

I think some of the anti-French sentiment in the U.S. is due to the fact that the U.S. gave them a powerful position in the reconstruction after WWII, which they would not otherwise have gotten. Things went along fine and dandy as long as the French sided with America in the U.N., but when they disagreed...well, it was a big shock to the USA.

I don't think our government should be expecting the French to play along just because we put them in the U.N. Instead they should gracefully accept the consequences of putting a nation in a powerful place and having it disagree with them.

No, no, you are mistaken, France's President Jacques Chirac notices that the States have gave them a high position, as Security Council Permanent Member, but it wasn't because the reason you gave, that their in it, it's because France, and Britain were Europe's Superpowers, and well it's to show respect. And how does France hate the USA. France aided you during the Revolutionary War against Britain, they sponsored you, Napolean helped you also by selling Louisiana. France, is just misunderstood in the United States.

est oui, Philipolis, bush est tres bete. Son visage resemble un seinge.

Actually, throughout its history the US has snubbed French overtures to friendlier relations. With such a predominance of British and Modern-day German immagrants in the US, anti-French feelings were understandable.

The French and the US have not seen eye to eye on many issues and quarrel over everything from miltary deployments, to international leadership, to trade with each other and the world at large.

I guess what I'm saying is that the US and France fight wars of words because they have a shared history that was not always friendly. They are allies that give us blunt, bitter advice. Sometimes the best medicines taste bitter you know.

France doesn't really have a problem with the States, as much as since the Iraq incident....I am a Frenchman, I have no problem with Bush, just his war thing, I support him, in his march against abortion, and Gay marriage. France, is a great nation, and don't insult them, they felt threatened by the United States, and well, basically, it's normal, when a superpower is aiming to attack a place where oil is abundant. Well, what I am trying to say, it's maybe out of greed, or sympathy for Iraqi citizens. The war in Iraq is not justified, they did not find weapons of mass destruction, but they did eliminate Saddam Hussein, thumbs up Bush...

I think some of the anti-French sentiment in the U.S. is due to the fact that the U.S. gave them a powerful position in the reconstruction after WWII, which they would not otherwise have gotten. Things went along fine and dandy as long as the French sided with America in the U.N., but when they disagreed...well, it was a big shock to the USA.

I don't think our government should be expecting the French to play along just because we put them in the U.N. Instead they should gracefully accept the consequences of putting a nation in a powerful place and having it disagree with them.

No, no, you are mistaken, France's President Jacques Chirac notices that the States have gave them a high position, as Security Council Permanent Member, but it wasn't because the reason you gave, that their in it, it's because France, and Britain were Europe's Superpowers, and well it's to show respect. And how does France hate the USA. France aided you during the Revolutionary War against Britain, they sponsored you, Napolean helped you also by selling Louisiana. France, is just misunderstood in the United States.

Oh I don't think Napoleon sold Louisiana to help us. He was busy in Europe and needed the troops. Also, the Americans were looking towards the territory and going "niiiccccccc" as the wringed their hands.

He saw it as a way to make some cash and avoid fighting he could not waste troops on.....

My friend, Napolean sold it for cheap, which means he did sell it to help you americans, if he wanted too, he could of sold it to someone else for more.

Contrary to popular opinion, anti-US sentiment in Europe did not just pop up because of the situation leading up to the Iraq war. It didn't start after 9/11 when Bush began pushing the world around.

Anti-US sentiment has been growing for decades. Also, I'll point out that before the big flub with Iraq, Europe was quite supportive of the US in its pursuit of badniks.

In the end, we hate each other. There is no cure for hatred. We'll grow old and die still hating each other. Welcome to the jungle. I've got my guns, have you yours?

Unless you are talking about the Goverment, I have not felt any hatred.

Europe and the US are like siblings. They may fight all the time but if its something important, they will help each other. Germany has very opposed to Iraq and yet they have soldiers in Afghanistan.

Once the shrub is gone and the US gets out of Iraq, things will cool off.

Cool off? Not in my world! This back and forth hatred will consume me and be me until the day I die.

My friend, Napolean sold it for cheap, which means he did sell it to help you americans, if he wanted too, he could of sold it to someone else for more.

No he did not.

He had plans for a sugar empire based on the Carribean. But his plans were thwarted by the slave revolt on Santo Domingo. The fighting and yellow fever killed over 40000 French Soldiers. Without Santo Domingo, he sugar plans which centered on New Orleans were wasted.

Now add in the fact the US setiment was turning against France and moving toward Englands camp since the prospects of loosing access to New Orleans.

Add in Spains refusal to sell Florida.

He decided to turn his attention to Europe. He said to dump the territory and fast!

The cost was 60 million Francs (15 million US) which include debt forgivness.

"The payment was made in United States bonds, which Napoleon sold at face value to the Dutch firm of Hope and Company, and the British banking house of Baring, at a discount of 87 1/2 per each $100 unit. As a result, Napoleon received only $8,831,250 in cash for Louisiana. Dutiful banker Alexander Baring conferred with Marbois in Paris, shuttled to the United States to pick up the bonds, took them to Britain, and returned to France with the money - and Napoleon used these funds to wage war against Baring's own country!"

More info....



http://www.nps.gov/jeff/LewisClark2/Circa1804/Heritage/LouisianaPurchase/LouisianaPurchase.htm

France doesn't really have a problem with the States, as much as since the Iraq incident....I am a Frenchman, I have no problem with Bush, just his war thing, I support him, in his march against abortion, and Gay marriage. France, is a great nation, and don't insult them, they felt threatened by the United States, and well, basically, it's normal, when a superpower is aiming to attack a place where oil is abundant. Well, what I am trying to say, it's maybe out of greed, or sympathy for Iraqi citizens. The war in Iraq is not justified, they did not find weapons of mass destruction, but they did eliminate Saddam Hussein, thumbs up Bush...

I think some of the anti-French sentiment in the U.S. is due to the fact that the U.S. gave them a powerful position in the reconstruction after WWII, which they would not otherwise have gotten. Things went along fine and dandy as long as the French sided with America in the U.N., but when they disagreed...well, it was a big shock to the USA.

I don't think our government should be expecting the French to play along just because we put them in the U.N. Instead they should gracefully accept the consequences of putting a nation in a powerful place and having it disagree with them.

No, no, you are mistaken, France's President Jacques Chirac notices that the States have gave them a high position, as Security Council Permanent Member, but it wasn't because the reason you gave, that their in it, it's because France, and Britain were Europe's Superpowers, and well it's to show respect. And how does France hate the USA. France aided you during the Revolutionary War against Britain, they sponsored you, Napolean helped you also by selling Louisiana. France, is just misunderstood in the United States.

France wasn't a European superpower right after WWII, though. The US thought they were doing the French a favor.

Well it's quite simple really.. france= french fry and america = potato wedge. Sit on that one!

what?

What is france's problem? The seem to be the symbol to European anti-americanism. I mean we havent done anything to them. We had ok trade relation with them. But when we threaten saddam they pull out their I HATE AMERICA T-shirts and banners? Why oppose us if its none of their business? I belive it is becuase iraq was a cash cow for them but is that all? :?
Au contraire. France LOVES America! Wouldn't you love the arrogant, sanctimonious hegemon who -- entirely on its own free will and against the advice of just about everyone (except maybe Sharon and Tony Bliar) -- wades into the sand fly-infested wastelands of Mesopotamia and gets embroiled in a guerilla war against foul-smelling, RPG-wielding Mohameddans? A splendid sight, indeed.

1.) Contary to popular American belief America is not the center of the universe nor is it everyone's favorite country.
2.)If you act like a prat always butting your way into everything people are gonna dislike you alot.
3.)Insulting the French is dumb, insulting the American people is dumb, however bashing W. Bush is fun and mostly correct.

why do french eat cigarettes and cheese mixed?

im not here to explain the universe`s questions to you guys, only to laugh at you. french sucks.

not all frogs suck, Nouvelle Normande is example.

why do french eat cigarettes and cheese mixed?

im not here to explain the universe`s questions to you guys, only to laugh at you. french sucks.

not all frogs suck, Nouvelle Normande is example.

And why do Americans eat marshmallows and cheese mixed?

why do french eat cigarettes and cheese mixed?

im not here to explain the universe`s questions to you guys, only to laugh at you. french sucks.

not all frogs suck, Nouvelle Normande is example.

You put a post like this up and wonder why the French catch an attitude?
It's crap like this that makes the world think Americans are idiots.

i dont give a shit what the world thinks about me, im just 1 cog in the factory, man. and im an asshole, you shouldnt judge americans by me. im a bad example. i know tons of americans better then me.

i still think peppy le pue should stop raggin on the US, if anything cuz we saved their asses more then once. and the french want to complain about US imperialism? what the fuck was vietnam frenchies?

i dont give a shit what the world thinks about me, im just 1 cog in the factory, man. and im an asshole, you shouldnt judge americans by me. im a bad example. i know tons of americans better then me.

i still think peppy le pue should stop raggin on the US, if anything cuz we saved their asses more then once. and the french want to complain about US imperialism? what the f--- was vietnam frenchies?

Vietnam was an American mistakes in more ways than one. So don't blame the French. Besides there wouldn't be an America if the French hadn't jumped in during the Revolution. As for saving them that's just back payment for the debt we still owe them from way back in the Revolution.

oh, ok. but if US didnt come in WWII, Frenchies would be speaking german right now. If the french didnt help in the Revolution, and the revolt was put down, we would be similar to Australia and Canada instead of a republic.

oh, ok. but if US didnt come in WWII, Frenchies would be speaking german right now. If the french didnt help in the Revolution, and the revolt was put down, we would be similar to Australia and Canada instead of a republic.

I doubt the French would ever speak German.

if they were forced to they would.

why do french eat cigarettes and cheese mixed?

im not here to explain the universe`s questions to you guys, only to laugh at you. french sucks.

not all frogs suck, Nouvelle Normande is example.

And why do Americans eat marshmallows and cheese mixed?

Huh? where did you get that one?

SHL

why do french eat cigarettes and cheese mixed?

im not here to explain the universe`s questions to you guys, only to laugh at you. french sucks.

not all frogs suck, Nouvelle Normande is example.

And why do Americans eat marshmallows and cheese mixed?

Huh? where did you get that one?

SHL
Same place Kisa got his.
Don't forget the mustard :wink:

if they were forced to they would.

You underestimate the French. Anyway the south colaborated with Nazis, so they would no more speak German than the Spanish and Italiens were forced to speak German

France and England have always been traditional enemies. The English have been traditional enemies of America. It's like some bizarre hate triangle. But I think America's arrogance has something to do with it as well

And why do Americans eat marshmallows and cheese mixed?

When did we start doing that? That sounds... disgusting... :shock:

We always seem to one up France, I think they're getting jealous.

We stomped their illegal oil deals with Saddam, we bought up half their country during the 80's with the Japanese, we had a 10/1 kill rate in Vietnam whereas they couldn't even hold thier strongest military bases in the country. Don't say they didn't want to keep them either, France has never willingly let go of a Colony. And you people call us Imperialist... feh.

They long for the days when they mattered. Today, they can talk. That's it. That's their position in the world, a windbag that whines about the world's only superpower. I'd be unhappy too if my country went from being one of the most powerful on earth to a joke.

A better question might be, What is America's problem with France. :x

Whats Americas problem with France, well the French are
1) Sensable.
2) Don't vote idiots into power
3) Don't go t war for no good reason.
My advice to Americans is this: Rember! You wouldn't be here if it wasn't for France.

Whats Americas problem with France, well the French are
1) Sensable.
2) Don't vote idiots into power
3) Don't go t war for no good reason.
My advice to Americans is this: Rember! You wouldn't be here if it wasn't for France.

I mean I can understand why France is pissed at the States, given the way they were treated because they declined to take part in Bush's "You are with us or against us" nonsense...

What I don't understand is why America (which is suppose to be all about freedom and choice) is upset with France because they simply disagreed with America and refused to take part. That was their right. Canada did the same thing. As it turns out, we were right.

What is france's problem? The seem to be the symbol to European anti-americanism. I mean we havent done anything to them. We had ok trade relation with them. But when we threaten saddam they pull out their I HATE AMERICA T-shirts and banners? Why oppose us if its none of their business? I belive it is becuase iraq was a cash cow for them but is that all? :?You're kidding right? Have you not noticed the huge amount of Anti-french prooganda in America? Merchandise, the internet, tv shows and politicians have all caught the anit-French bug.

We always seem to one up France, I think they're getting jealous.

We stomped their illegal oil deals with Saddam, we bought up half their country during the 80's with the Japanese, we had a 10/1 kill rate in Vietnam whereas they couldn't even hold thier strongest military bases in the country. Don't say they didn't want to keep them either, France has never willingly let go of a Colony. And you people call us Imperialist... feh.

They long for the days when they mattered. Today, they can talk. That's it. That's their position in the world, a windbag that whines about the world's only superpower. I'd be unhappy too if my country went from being one of the most powerful on earth to a joke.
I'm sure that the sight of the "world's only superpower" stuck in the mess of its own making and pleading for troops with anyone who'd listen soothe any emotional sores the French might have. The retreat from Fallujah, the unwashed hordes brandishing bits & pieces of wrecked American military equipment... yeah, behold the mighty superpower :twisted:

What is france's problem? The seem to be the symbol to European anti-americanism. I mean we havent done anything to them. We had ok trade relation with them. But when we threaten saddam they pull out their I HATE AMERICA T-shirts and banners? Why oppose us if its none of their business? I belive it is becuase iraq was a cash cow for them but is that all? :?

Dude... it's all about French fries. You see, in France they're called American fries so there is some resentment that the Americans won't accept responsibility for popularizing heartclogging deep fried strips of potatoes. Then, when they were called Freedom fries as a protest to France's UN veto, they saw it as theft of their culinary culture by stealing the recipe for fried julienned potatoes and Americanizing it. Oh, and apple pie is an Iraqi invention.

How can you say Iraq is "none of their business". That crackpot Bush is doing his damned best to get us all killed. Iraqi, American, French, whoever.

I'm not overly happy with our own PM either. Blair was in a unique position to tell Bush he was making a big mistake and he let the opportunity go. Just because he's scared to make a stand on anything.

What about Spaniards. Do you think Spain thinks it's none of their business after the Madrid bombings? That could easily have been Paris instead.

What is france's problem? The seem to be the symbol to European anti-americanism. I mean we havent done anything to them. We had ok trade relation with them. But when we threaten saddam they pull out their I HATE AMERICA T-shirts and banners? Why oppose us if its none of their business? I belive it is becuase iraq was a cash cow for them but is that all? :?


You want to know why?! Because they are the sort who are first to critizise and last to possibly think about it! In around 2 years they are expected to be so bankrupt that they may disapear.

How can you say Iraq is "none of their business". That crackpot Bush is doing his damned best to get us all killed. Iraqi, American, French, whoever.

I'm not overly happy with our own PM either. Blair was in a unique position to tell Bush he was making a big mistake and he let the opportunity go. Just because he's scared to make a stand on anything.

What about Spaniards. Do you think Spain thinks it's none of their business after the Madrid bombings? That could easily have been Paris instead.

If it was Paris that was bombed I would laugh instead of cry. Spain is a good country. Making a stand against Terrorists instead of sitting and twidling their thunmbs like France.

France is probably America's best friend.
A true friend is one who will tell you when you are wrong.

How can you say Iraq is "none of their business". That crackpot Bush is doing his damned best to get us all killed. Iraqi, American, French, whoever.

I'm not overly happy with our own PM either. Blair was in a unique position to tell Bush he was making a big mistake and he let the opportunity go. Just because he's scared to make a stand on anything.

What about Spaniards. Do you think Spain thinks it's none of their business after the Madrid bombings? That could easily have been Paris instead.

If it was Paris that was bombed I would laugh instead of cry. Spain is a good country. Making a stand against Terrorists instead of sitting and twidling their thunmbs like France.
Aren't you a well-informed feller!
Remind me again which nation is currently withdrawing it's ~1,300 troops from Iraq?

France is irrelevant. All will be American. No thought for themselves.

*we are borg anyone?*

Jim

You're kidding right? Have you not noticed the huge amount of Anti-french prooganda in America? Merchandise, the internet, tv shows and politicians have all caught the anit-French bug.

I've found the amount of televised propaganda within shows not directly dealing with the topic very irritating myself...

Some of it is pretty thick and obvious to me, but studying propaganda is a hobby of mine, and most other people don't seem to really notice it. :x

How can you say Iraq is "none of their business". That crackpot Bush is doing his damned best to get us all killed. Iraqi, American, French, whoever.

I'm not overly happy with our own PM either. Blair was in a unique position to tell Bush he was making a big mistake and he let the opportunity go. Just because he's scared to make a stand on anything.

What about Spaniards. Do you think Spain thinks it's none of their business after the Madrid bombings? That could easily have been Paris instead.

If it was Paris that was bombed I would laugh instead of cry. Spain is a good country. Making a stand against Terrorists instead of sitting and twidling their thunmbs like France.

I call this Hypocrisy. You cried for the Spaniards, however if French died you wouldn't give a damn. 11/9. 2824 victims (september11victims.com). So let's start killing x-fold more people (civilians most of them) in Afghanistan and Iraq. That must be the sanctity of the human life. The good old hypocrisy of the administration: WMD (whereas US & Israel aren't in possession of any WMD), freedom (whilst looking away from the torture commited in their prisons and not really wanting to give political freedoms to Iraqis). And just don't get me started on this whole neo-con thingie. Someone tell them that apart from the Old Testament,there also exists the New Testament

How can you say Iraq is "none of their business". That crackpot Bush is doing his damned best to get us all killed. Iraqi, American, French, whoever.

I'm not overly happy with our own PM either. Blair was in a unique position to tell Bush he was making a big mistake and he let the opportunity go. Just because he's scared to make a stand on anything.

What about Spaniards. Do you think Spain thinks it's none of their business after the Madrid bombings? That could easily have been Paris instead.

If it was Paris that was bombed I would laugh instead of cry. Spain is a good country. Making a stand against Terrorists instead of sitting and twidling their thunmbs like France.
Aren't you a well-informed feller!
Remind me again which nation is currently withdrawing it's ~1,300 troops from Iraq?
And doubling their contingent in Afghanistan. Although withdrawing from Iraq so soon is just pure-blooded Schroederesqe populism. Zapatero made a speech saying, instead of keeping his word and withdrawing when he said he did, he could "no longer stand up to the will of the people" in Spain. I wonder if his opposition gets over 50% approval and himself under 50%, if he'll resign.

est oui, Philipolis, bush est tres bete. Son visage resemble un seinge.
Yes, he is the command-in-chimp ;) yes, I understood that.

im english
well lets see
France is a washed up superpower who thonks there still important
america is a super power who thinks evryone should be like them
Britan still impotent mojer power 3rd largest econamy in the world,good army falklands good job in basra etc,2nd tecnologecly advanced state in the world 1st japan :roll: and the best economy in eorope

What is france's problem? The seem to be the symbol to European anti-americanism. I mean we havent done anything to them. We had ok trade relation with them. But when we threaten saddam they pull out their I HATE AMERICA T-shirts and banners? Why oppose us if its none of their business? I belive it is becuase iraq was a cash cow for them but is that all? :?
what's France's problem? they've begun to regret that their ancestors did something 228 years ago. That something is called "handing the USA their independance".
Now, if you ask "what's the USA's probelm?", then you might get a more complex answer.

im english
well lets see
France is a washed up superpower who thonks there still important
america is a super power who thinks evryone should be like them
Britan still impotent mojer power 3rd largest econamy in the world,good army falklands good job in basra etc,2nd tecnologecly advanced state in the world 1st japan :roll: and the best economy in eorope
what happened to Germany in your world? UK is the fifth world economy, third in europe.

Democracy is letting everyone have their opinion.
Liberty and/or freedom is letting people behave in their own manner so long as this manner does not harm anyone else.

I thought America was supposed to be about that kind of stuff,but it seems America is more intrested in bashing and demonizing everyone who goes against them.

And I say that as an American, so what does that tell you?

Democracy is letting everyone have their opinion.
Liberty and/or freedom is letting people behave in their own manner so long as this manner does not harm anyone else.

I thought America was supposed to be about that kind of stuff,but it seems America is more intrested in bashing and demonizing everyone who goes against them.

And I say that as an American, so what does that tell you?

Your a lib-er-uhl?

Since when did the USA appropriate the wholesale use of the word American? I don't think has a problem with Mexico, Argentina, Chile, Colombia and the rest of us

Democracy is letting everyone have their opinion.
Liberty and/or freedom is letting people behave in their own manner so long as this manner does not harm anyone else.

I thought America was supposed to be about that kind of stuff,but it seems America is more intrested in bashing and demonizing everyone who goes against them.

And I say that as an American, so what does that tell you?

Your a lib-er-uhl?

No, actually I'm an Independent. But that's beside the point. My point is I'm not going to let nationalistic complusions confuse my logic. I can see why other countries would look at us as arrogant d*uches. Which is why as soon as I have the funds and the legal age I'm moving. Hopefully before all the other countries wiseup and jump us enmass.

Democracy is letting everyone have their opinion.
Liberty and/or freedom is letting people behave in their own manner so long as this manner does not harm anyone else.

I thought America was supposed to be about that kind of stuff,but it seems America is more intrested in bashing and demonizing everyone who goes against them.

And I say that as an American, so what does that tell you?

Your a lib-er-uhl?

No, actually I'm an Independent. But that's beside the point. My point is I'm not going to let nationalistic complusions confuse my logic. I can see why other countries would look at us as arrogant d*uches. Which is why as soon as I have the funds and the legal age I'm moving. Hopefully before all the other countries wiseup and jump us enmass.

Good for you.

Democracy is letting everyone have their opinion.
Liberty and/or freedom is letting people behave in their own manner so long as this manner does not harm anyone else.

I thought America was supposed to be about that kind of stuff,but it seems America is more intrested in bashing and demonizing everyone who goes against them.

And I say that as an American, so what does that tell you?

Your a lib-er-uhl?

No, actually I'm an Independent. But that's beside the point. My point is I'm not going to let nationalistic complusions confuse my logic. I can see why other countries would look at us as arrogant d*uches. Which is why as soon as I have the funds and the legal age I'm moving. Hopefully before all the other countries wiseup and jump us enmass.

I'm with you. The illusion of invincibility America instists on prolonging won't last forever and once it ends it's gonna be on. And I want to be the heck out of Dodge before it goes down.

"Since when did the USA appropriate the wholesale use of the word American? I don't think has a problem with Mexico, Argentina, Chile, Colombia and the rest of us"

Don't forget Canada, we share the continent with you.

whats wrong with being a liberal? Society would get nowhere and fail if there was no change and eventually the entire population of a conservative-controlled country would rebel because things are not changing to meet their needs. Notice how communism happens to fail, A LOT! Even though, in theory, that system could work; it doesn't because it doesn't change to meet the peoples needs. There's always something wrong with being too conservative and too liberal. Usually, the society would fail either way. I believe its good to be slightly more in the liberal end of the spectrum but still willing to keep certain things the same.

"Since when did the USA appropriate the wholesale use of the word American? I don't think has a problem with Mexico, Argentina, Chile, Colombia and the rest of us"

Don't forget Canada, we share the continent with you.

I know and I think it sucks how you have to put up with our shite, but have our backs as well nearly everytime we get ourselves deep in it.

whats wrong with being a liberal? Society would get nowhere and fail if there was no change and eventually the entire population of a conservative-controlled country would rebel because things are not changing to meet their needs. Notice how communism happens to fail, A LOT! Even though, in theory, that system could work; it doesn't because it doesn't change to meet the peoples needs. There's always something wrong with being too conservative and too liberal. Usually, the society would fail either way. I believe its good to be slightly more in the liberal end of the spectrum but still willing to keep certain things the same.
Nothing is wrong with Classical Liberalism. The ideas of the rule of law, freedom, equality, all wonderful classical liberal ideas. Modern Liberalism, which borrows heavily from socialism, is a problem. So, yes, there's lots wrong with being a modern liberal, namely the violation of classical liberal philosophy in favor of socialist trash.

I see. Well then, i'm happy just being a classic liberal (by your definition). and in response to the original forum topic: the U.S. is not the emperor country of the world, the President cannot tell the rest of the world what to do. France had a choice whether or not to go to war and decided not to. Simple as that.

I'm glad we all seem to agree.

Long before 9/11, France has been long at work developing a school of thought beginning to sweep across Europe. Though not as disturbing as some of the other anti-Americanism elsewhere, it's the oldest.
They feel that the US has encroached on their country, and is trying to rob France of its culture and language. Now, Chirac feels that the US is trying to rob France of its diplomatic or military weight (if it ever existed). That's why the EU has become so powerful. It has been speerheaded by France, and their close allies in Belgium, Germany, and more or less so, in the UK. It's a rather sticky issue, but that's the gist of it: France feels threatened by the US, and like a dying tiger, they're beginning to lash out.

Long before 9/11, France has been long at work developing a school of thought beginning to sweep across Europe. Though not as disturbing as some of the other anti-Americanism elsewhere, it's the oldest.
They feel that the US has encroached on their country, and is trying to rob France of its culture and language. Now, Chirac feels that the US is trying to rob France of its diplomatic or military weight (if it ever existed). That's why the EU has become so powerful. It has been speerheaded by France, and their close allies in Belgium, Germany, and more or less so, in the UK. It's a rather sticky issue, but that's the gist of it: France feels threatened by the US, and like a dying tiger, they're beginning to lash out.

And with Bush and his cronies still in charge, America is going to be Roy Horn.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. America can only hold out with its F.U. attitude towards the rest of the world before the rest of the world decides to give America a collective F.U. And for those who think we can hold out, keep in mind that America is too globalized to be self-sustaining.

The Middle East for the most part controls the oil we need. Can you say Embargo 2?

Most if not almost all our Information Technology infrastructure has been outsourced to India.

If they decide to shut down, America is going to be hurting a lot more than you might think.

France has always had a problem with Americans in general.

The way they treat us when we go over there... they give us attitudes that seem to impose that we are unwanted.

The French come over here and they are not treated bad at all. But they come here, and many like to point out our flaws. "You call this a free country? A cop on every corner of the street?" Bla blah.

I remember recently watching a sports program that was being hosted in France. Everytime an American athlete came into play, the audience would boo.

France's problem is the same as everyone's problem with us.

Most if not almost all our Information Technology infrastructure has been outsourced to India.

If they decide to shut down, America is going to be hurting a lot more than you might think.
Not close to all, let alone most. But since this is a corporate thing, it can't just be "shut off" as easy as the oil, which is mainly nationalized by the various governments of OPEC. Although even if OPEC dosen't send any oil to us, there's more alternative sources now than there was in the 70s. Russia, Mexico, Alaska, Norway, and various other places around the world that aren't fully developed yet (Such as the area around E. Timor and Australia or the Gulf of Mexico) would simply developed. Oil costs would go up. But not so much that it would kill us.

Another thing to note is that now the governments of the Mideast are much more under our thumb than they were in the 70's. Iraq being the one most easily pulled out of OPEC if they embargoed us. Kuwait, Jordan, and Bahrain are other nations in the area that might follow, although they're less likely.

France doesn't "hate" America, per se, the just don't understand us... neither does the rest of the world.

Actually, the people of France love Americans. Any American who has been there can admit that. The people treat us with love and respect. Its the government that doesnt like America.

What is france's problem? The seem to be the symbol to European anti-americanism. I mean we havent done anything to them. We had ok trade relation with them. But when we threaten saddam they pull out their I HATE AMERICA T-shirts and banners? Why oppose us if its none of their business? I belive it is becuase iraq was a cash cow for them but is that all? :?
Just because they didn't rush off to fight some false war with you dosen't mean that they hate you. The rest of the world doesn't have to do whatever America says. They just didn't believe in the war. Personally, I think it was the Americans who got all Anti-France, so how was France ment to respond to that? They were right in opposing the war. There was no valid reason.

What is france's problem? The seem to be the symbol to European anti-americanism. I mean we havent done anything to them. We had ok trade relation with them. But when we threaten saddam they pull out their I HATE AMERICA T-shirts and banners? Why oppose us if its none of their business? I belive it is becuase iraq was a cash cow for them but is that all? :?
Just because they didn't rush off to fight some false war with you dosen't mean that they hate you. The rest of the world doesn't have to do whatever America says. They just didn't believe in the war. Personally, I think it was the Americans who got all Anti-France, so how was France ment to respond to that? They were right in opposing the war. There was no valid reason.
Its easy for people to say that allowing Saddam to be in power was no biggie and the USA shouldn't have invaded. Its exactly what young Western Europeans, particularly in France and Western Germany, thought about the Commies in the 1980's. The people in E. Europe largely disageed once they became independent.

That, however, is beside the point. Removing a dictator like Saddam is quite a valid reason.

Even if WMD were the main reason the war was pushed, the removal of Saddam was an inevitable side effect.

What is france's problem? The seem to be the symbol to European anti-americanism. I mean we havent done anything to them. We had ok trade relation with them. But when we threaten saddam they pull out their I HATE AMERICA T-shirts and banners? Why oppose us if its none of their business? I belive it is becuase iraq was a cash cow for them but is that all? :?



we made them mad by helping them in some war and destroying their dignity i think

That, however, is beside the point. Removing a dictator like Saddam is quite a valid reason.

Even if WMD were the main reason the war was pushed, the removal of Saddam was an inevitable side effect.

But 'Western Europe' isn't exactly made up of people waving "we love Saddam" banners. There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator, but there are plenty of those around the world. I don't see George Bush invading most of Africa, North Korea, China, Saudi Arabia.....and the WMD tales were blatant lies from the start. As a Briton, what narks me is not that I have an irrational hatred of Americans, it's that our Prime Minister forced us into a war we didn't want and lied to us when he did it (as did your President).

Removing a dictator is not a valid reason for a UN member to launch a pre-emptive strike against another. But it could have been with UN Security Council approval. Many on the anti-war side over here have such hostility to Blair and Bush because of the way the United Nations was cast aside. They wanted Saddam gone as much as the most fervent hawk in the Bush Administration. And if the 'Coalition' had invaded Iraq with the support of the UN, as a humanitarian, liberating force then it would have been a very different story. Sadly, because of the actions of your President, the United States are now viewed with suspicion and distrust in Europe. We don't hate Americans, just look at the tremendous respect France has for the D-Day Veterans. We don't hate Americans, but many of us do hate your 'President'.

Long before 9/11, France has been long at work developing a school of thought beginning to sweep across Europe. Though not as disturbing as some of the other anti-Americanism elsewhere, it's the oldest.
They feel that the US has encroached on their country, and is trying to rob France of its culture and language. Now, Chirac feels that the US is trying to rob France of its diplomatic or military weight (if it ever existed). That's why the EU has become so powerful. It has been speerheaded by France, and their close allies in Belgium, Germany, and more or less so, in the UK. It's a rather sticky issue, but that's the gist of it: France feels threatened by the US, and like a dying tiger, they're beginning to lash out.

And with Bush and his cronies still in charge, America is going to be Roy Horn.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. America can only hold out with its F.U. attitude towards the rest of the world before the rest of the world decides to give America a collective F.U. And for those who think we can hold out, keep in mind that America is too globalized to be self-sustaining.

The Middle East for the most part controls the oil we need. Can you say Embargo 2?

Most if not almost all our Information Technology infrastructure has been outsourced to India.

If they decide to shut down, America is going to be hurting a lot more than you might think.
May I inquire as to your point concerning my statements?

http://www.geog.ucsb.edu/~jeff/earthgifs/world.gif

I have been on this forum a long time, longer than just SO. It's inevitable that a growing, thriving forum like NS throws up the same topics again and again. And it is often a good thing to re-discuss issues with 'new' people, with diferent views. But this anti-American / anti-French/Europe thing is so bloody stale and tired. It hasn't gone un-noticed by me and I'm sure many others, that the originator of this thread has a fixation with France and Europe. It doesn't take much imagination nor thought to trumpet ones own countries virtues and denigrate others. Merely ignorance and sadly, bigotry. Americans have a wealth of genuine complaints they could discuss about Europe, Euros have the same about America. But rarely do I read here a rational and useful critique of other countries actions. 'Fat Yanks', 'Stinky French', 'Double-crossing Spainiards' 'Treachorous Germans' is usually the level any thread descends to, and often starts at.
What I truly, genuinely, honestly cannot understand is why the people of a country that know it is the foremost military and economic power in the world, spend (waste) so much of their time here and on other forums, insulting and trashing other nations. One person made the point that the French feel a bit 'miffed' at not having much, if any, influence on the terrible current issues in the world. Maybe there is a grain of truth in that, it sounds plausible, but how can anyone really believe that great nations run their foreign affairs just to spite other nations? This is all about Iraq, even though Purly likes to claim that France has always 'hated'
America. The Americans and Brits thought (wrongly) that they had a valid case for smashing into Iraq to find and destroy WMD. Most of the world community dissagreed. I like that, it shows we live in a largely free speaking world. France, through design or accident, found itself in the vanguard of that protest, though it was speaking for most of the world, including Germany and Russia (which for some reason are always 'overlooked' in these stupid debates). The US, and the Bush administration in particular, was outraged that a fairly powerful country, backed by other powerful countries, had the sheer nerve to oppose it. America, for a while, lost its head and railed and ranted at the French who were doing exactly what the US does, speak up for what it believes in. Some demonstration of democracy in action that was.
We all know the rest, the US, with GB, went ahead with an illegal, pre-emptive attack and invasion of a sovereign nation. Bush senior knew it was wrong, I believe most Americans knew it was wrong, even though they felt compelled to support their troops, once in action. How many coffins have the American people been allowed to see return in dignity? None.
Some democracy again.
The Brits televise, with grace, dignity and honour, their dead arriving home for the last time, in Union Jack draped coffins. And look how many Americans are still being killed each week. Look at how many innocent Iraqis are being killed each day. Look at the complete and ruinous mess Iraq is in now. Okay, I too hope that Iraq will find some sort of peace and prosper. I too am happy and glad for the Iraqis that the butcher Sadaam has been caught and (hopefully) tried by his countymen. But what do we see on this forum? 'Why do the French hate us'? and on and on. I am heartened and cheered at some American repostes against this drivel but isn't it time that some of you became a little bit 'bigger' and stop whining?



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“Life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans”.
John Lennon

France doesn't really have a problem with the States, as much as since the Iraq incident....I am a Frenchman, I have no problem with Bush, just his war thing, I support him, in his march against abortion, and Gay marriage. France, is a great nation, and don't insult them, they felt threatened by the United States, and well, basically, it's normal, when a superpower is aiming to attack a place where oil is abundant. Well, what I am trying to say, it's maybe out of greed, or sympathy for Iraqi citizens. The war in Iraq is not justified, they did not find weapons of mass destruction, but they did eliminate Saddam Hussein, thumbs up Bush...

My 2http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/8927/Centssymbol1.jpg worth - We are allies and are simply disagreeing which is not unusual. As any nation should they have put their interestes first. No foul there.

I think the events of the past week are far more telling of our deeper relationship. You may get aggravated by a brother but he is still a brother.

SHL

When I was in France last year, I felt no hatred toward me as an individual american. In fact, I can honestly say I've never been treated better in a foreign country. Maybe it's because they could tell the difference between me and my government.

Before you say that I must have been in the countryside, I'm saying this about Parisiens, too. I didn't find any of the stereotypes to be true. Not a single one of them. Of course, I did try to meet them halfway, and speaking bad french is a good way to get them to put you out of your misery and make an attempt at english, and invariably it's much less awkward than your french...;)

When I was in France last year, I felt no hatred toward me as an individual american. In fact, I can honestly say I've never been treated better in a foreign country. Maybe it's because they could tell the difference between me and my government.

Before you say that I must have been in the countryside, I'm saying this about Parisiens, too. I didn't find any of the stereotypes to be true. Not a single one of them. Of course, I did try to meet them halfway, and speaking bad french is a good way to get them to put you out of your misery and make an attempt at english, and invariably it's much less awkward than your french...;)

Also true of most Italians I met while there. They were warm, friendly and interested in sharing their culture as well as asking about mine. On a human one on one level, people are much less atagonistic than some imagine.

Inoltre allineare della maggior parte dei italiani che ho venuto a contatto di mentre là. Sono calde, amichevoli ed interessate nella compartecipazione della loro coltura così come chiedere notizie su mine. Su umano su una gente livellata sia meno atagonistic che alcuni immaginano.

Rectifiez en outre de la plupart des Italiens que j'ai rencontrés tandis que là. Ils sont chauds, amicaux et intéressés à partager leur culture aussi bien que s'enquérir du mien. Sur humain sur une personnes de niveau soyez moins atagonistic que certains imaginent.

Libertéhttp://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/flags/us-flag.gif ............................................. Égalitéhttp://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/flags/fr-flag.gif ............................................. FraternitéHttp://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/flags/it-flag.gif

SHL

it's not just french people that make anti-american propoganda. go to www.google.com and type (with quotes) "french military victories" and click "I'm Feeling Lucky" button.

Long before 9/11, France has been long at work developing a school of thought beginning to sweep across Europe. Though not as disturbing as some of the other anti-Americanism elsewhere, it's the oldest.
They feel that the US has encroached on their country, and is trying to rob France of its culture and language. Now, Chirac feels that the US is trying to rob France of its diplomatic or military weight (if it ever existed). That's why the EU has become so powerful. It has been speerheaded by France, and their close allies in Belgium, Germany, and more or less so, in the UK. It's a rather sticky issue, but that's the gist of it: France feels threatened by the US, and like a dying tiger, they're beginning to lash out.

And with Bush and his cronies still in charge, America is going to be Roy Horn.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. America can only hold out with its F.U. attitude towards the rest of the world before the rest of the world decides to give America a collective F.U. And for those who think we can hold out, keep in mind that America is too globalized to be self-sustaining.

The Middle East for the most part controls the oil we need. Can you say Embargo 2?

Most if not almost all our Information Technology infrastructure has been outsourced to India.

If they decide to shut down, America is going to be hurting a lot more than you might think.
May I inquire as to your point concerning my statements?

France is lashing out because it's feeling threatened, but the Bush Administration- like most of America in part- is dismissing it as a nuisance suitable for mocking or ignoring. Which is underestimating France's capacity for political machination, especially given its position in the U.N. and the E.U.

it's not just french people that make anti-american propoganda. go to www.google.com and type (with quotes) "french military victories" and click "I'm Feeling Lucky" button.

Actually, a Canadian was behind the thing thta made it say "there are no matches", and I believe typing in "French military victories will take show u the site about this Canadian guy.

This whole thing about the French hating the Americans is just an extension of their nations attitude as a whole:

Brits: believe they are the best nation because a) they conquered a fourth of the world and b) all other nation are composed of uneducated job-stealign scum.

Americans: believe they are the best nation because they are independant, rich, powerful and have a democracy (the fact that most other nations are ignorant, job-stealing scum is a coincidence)

Russia: interesting blend of apathy, depression and patrioitism.

Germans: have a quiet, steady desire to dominate Europe.

Chinese: quietly (or occaisionaly loudly) wish to conquer the World and make it embrace their brand of Communism. They resent the superiority of the capitalist nations and the global decline of communsim.

French: pity the rest of the World for not being French, and rub it in their faces by going on about their culture, wine and language.

BTW- some frenchie mentioned that they don't have a hybrid language taken fromtheir former colonizer (refering to the US and Britain), but actually they speak a latin derrivative, which they took from the Romans, who used to colonize them. :D Clearly, depsite this Frenchie's claims about their grand history, he is not actually very familiar with it.

But 'Western Europe' isn't exactly made up of people waving "we love Saddam" banners. There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator, but there are plenty of those around the world. I don't see George Bush invading most of Africa, North Korea, China, Saudi Arabia.....and the WMD tales were blatant lies from the start. As a Briton, what narks me is not that I have an irrational hatred of Americans, it's that our Prime Minister forced us into a war we didn't want and lied to us when he did it (as did your President).
Why do we have to invade every dictatorship in order to justify taking out one dictator? That dosen't make sense. Just because we can't help all of however many billions of people that are under the jackboot of a dictator dosen't mean that we can't help some.

Removing a dictator is not a valid reason for a UN member to launch a pre-emptive strike against another. But it could have been with UN Security Council approval. Many on the anti-war side over here have such hostility to Blair and Bush because of the way the United Nations was cast aside. They wanted Saddam gone as much as the most fervent hawk in the Bush Administration. And if the 'Coalition' had invaded Iraq with the support of the UN, as a humanitarian, liberating force then it would have been a very different story. Sadly, because of the actions of your President, the United States are now viewed with suspicion and distrust in Europe. We don't hate Americans, just look at the tremendous respect France has for the D-Day Veterans. We don't hate Americans, but many of us do hate your 'President'.
France deliberatly obstructed any UN vote by saying that they would veto any resolution authorizing the use of force. They are the ones that made the UN useless, not the UK and USA who could have just ignored it (like NATO did in Kosovo). The reason we went to the UN was because we thought we might be able to get some sort of rational response instead of Schroeder using Anti-Americanism to get re-elected and Chirac spouting his mouth off.

The UN dosen't make anything more or less moral. The UN is just a corrupt body of America and Israel-bashing countries that like to pretend they have some power. I don't see how the UN giving its sanction on an invasion would have made it any more of a valid reason to invade Iraq. If its the moral and right thing to do, then having the UN agree with it dosen't change that.

Why does the US single out France as being against that war, when the UN as a whole went against it and most of the countries in the world did the same independently of the UN?

From Korea to Brazil, even countries which the government backed Bush's decision had their population massively protesting the war like Japan!

It's not a French thing, it's a world thing. And I live close to France, took lots of American friends on tours to Paris, never once I saw one sign of discrimination. But when I was in the US one month ago I heard this same stupid phrase over and over again: do they have toilet paper in France? Do they hate us?

It seems to me people need to travel more and listen less to the media... :)

France deliberatly obstructed any UN vote by saying that they would veto any resolution

Ah, right, just like the Americans (who hold the VETO record in the UN) did with Israel.

Pot,
Kettle,
Black!

France deliberatly obstructed any UN vote by saying that they would veto any resolution

Ah, right, just like the Americans (who hold the VETO record in the UN) did with Israel.

Pot,
Kettle,
Black!
Liar! Liar! Liar!

Steph lied! Liberal Lies!

The U.S.S.R. holds the record for largest number of VETOs.

Oddly, the most strident U.S. Bashing on this thread isn't from the French membership at all-it's from Americans-and a few Canucks and Brits.

Oddly, the most strident U.S. Bashing on this thread isn't from the French membership at all-it's from Americans-and a few Canucks and Brits.
Anti-Americanism can infect anyone.