NationStates Jolt Archive

"U.S. manufacturing workers were on the job an average of 37.9 hours per week in 1996, earning an average of $17.74 an hour.
Here are some 1996 European manufacturing comparisons:

German workers only put in an average of 29 hours a week, but earn a whopping $31.87 average per hour.

The average French worker is on the job 31.7 hours a week, earning the equivalent of $19.34 an hour.

In Italy, the work week consists of 35 hours, with an average pay of $18.08 an hour.

A British worker will toil 35.6 hours a week, realizing $14.19 per hour."

www.ncpa.org/pi/internat/pdinter/pdint205.html

"Imagine, first, that you are “Wilhelm Preizendorff,” a young Austrian, and that you have just gone to work as an office clerk for a Viennese stationers. From the moment you enter the mailroom door, you are entitled by law to five weeks per year of paid vacation.
Or you are “Nigel Lawson,” floor manager of a small Sydney, Australia, department store. Each year, by practice of your firm, common in Australia, you receive six weeks of paid vacation. Sometimes you store up three months of vacation and take the family on an around-the-world trip.
Or you are “Chantal Lasserre,” buyer for a Paris dress shop. You are this time entitled, by minimum guarantee of French law, to five weeks paid vacation per year. You take a month off every summer, which you then supplement with a week in winter or spring.
And now you are “Mary Jones” or “John Smith,” an American. This year you have no vacation at all; you have recently changed jobs and lost the time accrued under your former employer. Next year: one week with pay. The year after that: two. After five years of consecutive employment with the same firm, you will have three weeks per year of paid vacation."

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3081147/

Now I'm just wondering, how are Americans lazy? Not only do we work longer per week, not only do we get less vacation time, but we also have a lower unemployment rate than most European nations. The last time I heard, the Hoover Dam was considered a modern world wonder. For quite a few years we had the tallest buildings in the world, bar none. My father has worked at the same job for thirty years. On one occasion, in which I actually violated labor laws, I worked sixteen hours straight, slept three hours, then came back and worked another nine. At his previous job, my uncle often worked twelve hour days seven days straight with only one day off.

Now obviously I shouldn't use my immediate family as an example, but in all honesty we respresent the norm for this part of the country. So, in closing, I would like to know how Americans are lazy considering that we work longer, with less average pay, and with less vacation time.

yeah you are right!

I've heard this too. I think only Japan probably has harder workers than the US

US Americans are only lazy in that we have low morale so we dont work as hard as we can for the boss because of our low pay and low amount of vacation time. But we work long hours and work hard enough to keep our job at least.

I am definitely moving as soon as I can.


Hey Canadians... what are the statistics for you?

I herd about this on the news The only thing most of us Americans lack are morals but what do you expect from a nation that gets a kick out of Violent TV Bloody Video games? Not saying thats quiet a bad thing it means we arent afraid to shed a little blood. How i got from jobs to blood shed i dont know :twisted:

yeah you are right!

I've heard this too. I think only Japan probably has harder workers than the US

US Americans are only lazy in that we have low morale so we dont work as hard as we can for the boss because of our low pay and low amount of vacation time. But we work long hours and work hard enough to keep our job at least.

I am definitely moving as soon as I can.


Hey Canadians... what are the statistics for you?

Speak for yourself..I'm very happy at where I work..great benefits, payscale on par for the occupation as a whole...I'm staying put.

I do not know if the average american is more or less lazy than the average non-american, but I do know that to use the average work-week and the days of vacation the average american or non-american has as an indication to determine whether they are lazy or not it rather foolish.

Do you really believe that if it wasn't necessary, financially or otherwise, the average american would work the hours you mentioned? Ten to one that if they could trade with the german worker they'd go for it faster than you can say "ich bin ein Berliner".

I've had to work 18 hours with no pay before, and they say we're lazy. I'm only 16! Legally, it would be unlawful for me to work that long, but the money was short for my dad's business (which I used to work for), so I signed a legal contract stating I would work on my own hours for free. Now, I could have quit. I could've have chosen to work for an hour and quit. Nope. I chose an 18-hour day working with fiberglass insulation that sticks in your skin and in your eyes and makes every last second nothing but torture, and I sauteed on a black roof tearing up and putting on tiles, sunburning myself half to death so I couldn't even walk straight, hell...I nailed myself through the hand and lost the use of my ring finger for a short time. And they call Americans lazy. Well screw whoever says that.

First off: Is this something to be proud of?

Americans aren't lazy... I don't think anyone will say that. Europeans simply have better unions and a better welfare system so they tend to work less ;)

The figures are a bit biased though, the Netherlands (my country) has a 37 1/2 hours workweek for a full-time job. However, since MANY people (especially women) work parttime the average hours of work become lower. (I thought the average for our nation was 31 hours or so, from memory.)

This is also what is going on with these figures I guess. I think it is a pretty good tradeoff, since flexible jobs allow for more people to be employed on the same jobs.

I recently studied this subject (well something related to it but the figures came up. The trends are clear: while European workers have been reducing their hours of work, American workers are being required to extend theirs. To copy a little factoid from the internet: American workers have seen their annual working time rise from 1,883 hours in 1980 to 1,966 hours in 1997. Most of that is a result of forced overtime that takes a toll on the health and safety of the workers, not to mention their family and social life.

I also don't understand why anyone would *want* to work, say, 50 hours a week if it isn't a bare neccecity or an uberkewl job. I think a bit more leisure time would improve the quality of life then. Money isn't everything.

An interesting article related to this subject:

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/aug2001/nf20010828_616.htm

Not one person answered my question. Given the information, just how are Americans lazy? I want an answer. Are we supposed to translate Dante's Inferno into Mandarin Chinese in our free time? When we're not at our official jobs, should we go out and build highways just for the hell of it?

Knoot, you claim that "Americans aren't lazy... I don't think anyone will say that". Do you know how many times I've heard Americans called lazy? Fifty? One hundred? I've honestly lost count. Either you aren't listening or ignorance really is bliss.

1248B, you say it is foolish to compare average work weeks to determine laziness... boy is that a can of worms. If laziness is not decided by time spent working, is it decided by time spent in leisure? What, do "non-Americans" spend their free time, which is abundant, just building bridges, damming rivers, and plowing fields? Is American laziness, or lack thereof, to be determined by what we do in our free time? That my friend, that is foolish. But since you apparently know it all, I'll go build myself a fortress tomorrow. Yes, that's a good way to make sure my free time is not spent... doing something fun? Your entire line of thought is bordering on the obscene.

Knoot, I'll go back to you. Why would some people want to work fifty hours a week? Some people just love to work! It might give value to their lives. Why do so many old people in this country continue to work, even though savings and SSI give them more than enough money? Because they love to work! This modern America was forged by a generation that worked harder, longer, and more dilligently. At the time of my dad's birth, my Grandpa was working at an Air Force Base and picking cotton.

Now I'll jump back to you 1248B. You've said exactly what I wanted you to say. Americans are also accused of decadence, gluttony, etc. etc. Now, you say that if we had the chance we'd trade places with that German worker we would. Do you think some Somali kid wouldn't gorge himself stupid if he had a huge abundance of food? By comparing what is to what could be, you essentially negate all the arguments of gluttony. I do imagine that most people, when their is an abundance of food, eat at least a little more than what is required to either keep them alive, or satisfy their appetite, wouldn't you agree? Of course they do! And you can argue that Americans take it too far. I'd agree with you, but that is relativism. Is it gluttonous to eat more than it takes for survival? Is it gluttonous to eat more than it takes to fill your stomach? Such ideas are about as dumb as a bag of hammers.

Now I'll make this bold because I want an answer. Given the information above, just how are Americans lazy?

Beware of simple statistics as they rarely give the full picture.

Back in my evil goverment days; I got involved in a department that had about 400 people.

I will tell you that it was about 25 people that kept the place afloat.

We could easily have tossed 200 people and the work output would not change.

Also, the amount of hours worked does not mean quality output.

My favorite phrase that I hear over and over. "put it in now, we will fix it later!"

Remeber: Work smart; not hard! ;)

You should play dodge ball, Black Forrest, as you are so good at evasion.

So is there an answer or not?

im american. im lazy. and proud of it.
so there!

You should play dodge ball, Black Forrest, as you are so good at evasion.

So is there an answer or not?

Maybe I should go into politics.

When I usually hear the term fat lazy americans it's usually in refernce for things like:

Going to fast food instead of cooking at home.
Driving around a parking lot for 40 minutes looking for a stall that is close.
etc. .etc.

The job statistics are nothing more then statistics.

If we are so effient and cheap, why are the jobs leaving?
The numbers seem only to reflect salary not other aspects such as insurence. I once remember a Lockeed manager telling me that they charge the Goverment 125000 a year for each employee.

Again longer hours don't always mean it's good output.

Maybe they are lazy because they don't put in the effort and drag it out.

I don't know. I am Wan Engineer so business is not exactly something I follow all the time.

I haven't the slightest whether Americans are lazier than anyone else in the world, on average, but the few statistics you posted don't exactly convince me they aren't. Do Americans actually do the same amount of work per hour, or is a lot of the time wasted? You've got manufacturing jobs listed, but what about other fields of labor? U.S. workers may make less money, but I imagine they aren't taxed nearly as much. And perhaps "laziness" refers not just to the working day, but time spent doing other productive tasks, like community work or going to school: Do Americans spend more time doing that kind of work too, or do they watch American Idol instead?

And so on.

how often are americans average? not often, but sense that's the best info you're going to get I'll leave you to your disussion

I'm wondering how looking for an up close parking space is lazy. While it is true, it is a generalization. On this issue, I absolutely believe that Europeans just don't understand America. We've got millions and millions of cars. In my four years of driving I myself am on number three - the first two broke down. Not only that, I don't think they understand how big America is. You can drive for hours in West Texas and not see a single house. If memory serves, the distance from Moscow to Lisbon is about 3,700 miles. The distance from Maine to California is 3,000. Travelling from Moscow you have to travel through at least four countries to get to Lisbon, meanwhile you're still in the US travelling roughly the same distance. When I lived in the country it was a shade over twelve miles to the nearest grocery store. Were we supposed to walk?

Seriously, we must be damned lazy for not walking a total of twenty four miles for groceries. That's what it is, laziness. Twenty four miles, why, that's not a long way to walk in temperatures that break 100f with 100% humidity! We must be lazy.

And as for fast food, what the hell is this, the stone age? "Get in there and fix my dinner, woman." Is that what should be said or done? I don't know, maybe after working ten or twelve hours maybe no one has the energy to cook. Case in point: This morning, in atrocious Oklahoma heat and humidity, my uncle and I moved three tons of sand, about a half ton of rocks, and built a water garden for my grandmother. Later that day I went on a mile long march with twenty pounds of extra weight strapped to my back in heat that can only be described as Dante-esque. Then, just an hour ago, I got back from another mile march. Frankly, I'm so tired I don't want to go out, let alone cook.

My grandmother, at 67, gets out of the house and weeds the yard by hand, tends to her plants, and generally gets into trouble. She also has a medical condition, mysthenia gravis, that prevents signals from the brain from getting to her legs, en masse. It is hard for her to walk. So is she lazy for wanting to get a burger at McDonalds instead of going to the kitchen and fixing a three course meal?

You are over looking the comments.

Driving around for a long time looking for a parking space that is close means there are some farther away and it would mean walking for a little bit. I see that all the time.

Fast food once in awhile is a nice vice. However, many do it all the time.

Nobody would walk 24 miles to go to the store.

Yet many would drive to a store that was a couple blocks away.

So what you're saying is that Americans should be held to European standards? I know full well they walk a few blocks, and more, to get groceries. So should we model ourselves on those bunch of [edited in advance]?

I don't give to flipping flops about who does what. Tomorrow I'll throw sixty pounds on my back, march twelve miles, and [edited in advance] on a European if I happen across one.

Eh, I don't see how convenience translates to laziness. There's no point parking 100 yards away if there's a spot next to the building, or waiting 30 minutes for a meal if you can get it in 3. Maybe if you spend 20 minutes looking for a closer spot instead of parking to walk, but I don't know many Americans who do that sort of thing.

You are over looking the comments.

Driving around for a long time looking for a parking space that is close means there are some farther away and it would mean walking for a little bit. I see that all the time.

Fast food once in awhile is a nice vice. However, many do it all the time.

Nobody would walk 24 miles to go to the store.

Yet many would drive to a store that was a couple blocks away.

I dunno, I eat fast food because it is CHEAP. 3.19 for a nice sized meal. Am I lazy for not packing a lunch? No, I just don't really have the time, I work way too much for way too little money. Fortuantly I don't get treated like garbage like at my last job though.

It should be noted that skilled labor in the US, although they generally still work long hours, sometimes making voluntarily extensions for greater rewards, are actually payed extremely well. This is why so many USA companies are leaving, American skilled labor is expensive.

The statement that only Japan surpasses America in terms of hours worked by the average resident is correct.

It should be noted that skilled labor in the US, although they generally still work long hours, sometimes making voluntarily extensions for greater rewards, are actually payed extremely well. This is why so many USA companies are leaving, American skilled labor is expensive.

The statement that only Japan surpasses America in terms of hours worked by the average resident is correct.

Actually, it's incorrect. We've since surpassed the Japanese in median hours per week worked, as well as total man-hours.

To give an answer to why Americans are typically called lazy, you have to look at the source. Usually, the term "lazy American" in my experience, comes from one of two sources: a telepundit, or a late-night talk show host. Neither is a very good source for accurate information.

The truth is that their indicators for laziness, with weight gain being the biggie, but there are a few other things, are really a sign of overwork on the part of Americans. Over the last 30 years, we've been forced to work longer and harder for less and less because if we don't, it would be impossible for us to keep up with escalating costs of living, such as rising house prices, rising food prices, rising college tuitions, rising car prices, rising gas prices, etc, and consequently, we just don't have the energy when we come home to cook a meal, exercise, go to the store, etc. America's health is suffering because we're being systematically driven into the ground in the quest for greater productivity and efficiency (Americans are by far the most efficient per-capita workers in the world), all so that a few people can enjoy greater dividends on their stock values.

The solution of course, is not to crack down on unions (the excuse usually given is that America needs to do this to "compete". My question: compete with whom? The Europeans are our closest economic rivals, and they cannot hope to match our level of productivity. The Japanese are in a slump. The average Chinese citizen earns in a year about half of what I get per semester in my Pell grant, so its not like they have a lot of buying power. The only people we're competing against is ourselves, which is frappin' stupid), but rather to expand them. Instead of breaking the union at Smiths, why not build one at Walmart. The problem with this, though, is that as we all know, unions are bad, bad, bad, because the media owned by people who have to negotiate with them tell us so.

I'm not lazy... I just got done with a nine hour work day after going to class for 6 hours.

I guess sloth is the biggest sin for all of us american pplz. :P But it is a saying that: "If you choose a career that you love to do and enjoy doing it, you never have to work a day in your life."

1248B, you say it is foolish to compare average work weeks to determine laziness... boy is that a can of worms. If laziness is not decided by time spent working, is it decided by time spent in leisure? What, do "non-Americans" spend their free time, which is abundant, just building bridges, damming rivers, and plowing fields? Is American laziness, or lack thereof, to be determined by what we do in our free time? That my friend, that is foolish. But since you apparently know it all, I'll go build myself a fortress tomorrow. Yes, that's a good way to make sure my free time is not spent... doing something fun? Your entire line of thought is bordering on the obscene.

Let me first point out to you that I never accused Americans to be lazy. Also, average workhours and vacation days say very little of an individuals' motivation for working that many hours, accepting so-and-so many vacation days a year. And being ignorant of a person's motivation it is impossible to tell if they work hard because they have no choice financially or otherwise, or if they do so for personal motivation that allows them a freedom of choice. The absence of freedom to choose makes it that no matter how hard a person works this cannot be taken as an indication that that person by nature is industrious.

An example: a rich man who has enough $$ to never have to work a day in his life and still enjoy a very wealthy lifestyle is obviously not lazy when he puts in a 40 hour work week for 50 weeks a year, quite the opposite. But to say that a poor man who works hard just to pay the bills must by definition be an inherently industrious man simply because he works hard is presumptious and preposterous; whats there that proves that if that same man was rich he would continue to work hard? Nothing.

Your mistake is that you assume that because someone works hard they must be inherently industrious.

The reason why I said that if the average American could trade places with the German worker is not because I think they are lazy, at least not more or less lazy than *fill in any nationality you like*, but because everything indicates that Americans show very little motivation to get their ass into action unless they are rewarded for it, cash preferred but creditcard accepted.

An example: the eve before the invasion of Iraq only about 13% of the Americans could find Iraq on the map. Meaning that the vast majority was too lazy to pick up a map of the world to find out the geographic location of the country that supposedly was a threat to US safety.

Another example: rarely anyone shows up to vote.

These examples betray an ignorance which can be called "stunning", and which expands itself to many other areas, and which can be said to exist by the grace of laziness on part of the American who rarely feels motivated to undertake action when no direct reward is expected, and which I suspect is refered to by most when they say "lazy american".

So intellectual laziness rather than physical laziness.

well I would take any of those jobs of course I'd prefer the highest paying with fewest hours but considering the way these countries are, i'd work in Italy or USA

I don't consider myself lazy. I walk to half the places in town ( i live pretty close to everything) I also am a handyman up to 20 hours a week along with schooling (highschool with straight A's) sure we are a lazy people but so are many others and well things like fastfood, and a very fastpaced lifestyle affect this. I walk to places as much as possible, eat right,work hard (and for less than or about minimum wage no damn unions either) I think we americans work pretty hard its when we aren't working we are lazy actually like when it comes to eating or doing chores or excercising etc. we fail we do our work just not much else, Myself being an exception.

Hours worked does not equate to productivity. When Merc reduced the working hours at thier factory productivity increased.
From the figures given in the first post I feel sorry for workers in the US, where is the work life balance? Where is the time for family and all that instills in the next generations?

So intellectual laziness rather than physical laziness.

If we take into account the terrible physical shape most Americans are in, even Bush adressed the nation with the request to start doing some exersize in order to improve the national health level, then we can also include physical laziness.

okok! we are stupid and fat- well some of us are- but at least we work hard!

no man, ive seen tons of buff americans. and i know tons of very intelligent.

i could also say that all french stink of wine and they never bathe and never shave and all they do drink wine and talk in a stupid accent. which, ofcourse, they do. every single one. :wink:

okok! we are stupid and fat- well some of us are- but at least we work hard!

no man, ive seen tons of buff americans. and i know tons of very intelligent.

i could also say that all french stink of wine and they never bathe and never shave and all they do drink wine and talk in a stupid accent. which, ofcourse, they do. every single one. :wink:

87% who couldn't find Iraq on the map of the world is indeed nearly everyone 8)

BTW What you said about the french? Very much on target ;)

i had a test in class and i knew almost all the euro, african, and middle east countries.

most people are retards, and that includes Euros.

i had a test in class and i knew almost all the euro, african, and middle east countries.

You only had to learn the names of the countries? :shock: Not the capitols? Not the main rivers, mountainranges, et cetera?


most people are retards, and that includes Euros.

Only too true. We wouldn't be in this mess if we weren't. :(

WWII was a mess.
WWI was a mess.
Napoleon was a mess.

Iraq is fcuking minor compared.

As if Iraq being fucking minor in comparison would offer any consolation to those who are suffering the consequences! Also, in case you forgot, the war in Iraq has just begun, word is that it could easily drag on for another ten years.

Akkiliam: Well, I think this is a bit of a strawman argument because I've heard nobody say Americans are lazy because they don't work enough. Its simply not true... nobody is claiming it.

As others already have claimed, there are other things in life then working and they can be just as valuable or even moreso. If you work so much, you have to go out for a burger instead of cooking, and there is no time to go out after work, so people go watch tv because they are tired.

If people would all 'love to work' then I would say, indulge, but I don't think this is the case for many American workers (as was argued before.) First you all have to work like crazy, and then we get to see these pictures on the telly here of American women storming into the big warehouses to get gifts for Christmas and spend spend spend.

If Bush can take a month off to relax, why can't other Americans? As the European example shows, it isn't exactly the end of civilisation as we know it. It gives you time to do other things in life that can also be apppreciated. In fact, I think it may help solve many of the problems described above because people get some time to reflect a bit, cook a real dinner instead of fast food, go out and pick mushrooms, maybe visit a museum or read a book. :wink:

~Knoot

In fact, I think it may help solve many of the problems described above because people get some time to reflect a bit, cook a real dinner instead of fast food, go out and pick mushrooms, maybe visit a museum or read a book. :wink:


Just make sure they're the right sort of mushrooms or else the War on drugs people will be knocking on your door :D

In fact, I think it may help solve many of the problems described above because people get some time to reflect a bit, cook a real dinner instead of fast food, go out and pick mushrooms, maybe visit a museum or read a book. :wink:


Just make sure they're the right sort of mushrooms or else the War on drugs people will be knocking on your door :D

Hmmm... I used to live in the same street as a paddo shop/ 'grow' shop and three or so coffeeshops. Have yet to see them bombed. 8) The war on drugs is a silly waste of resources anyways, but that is completely offtopic.

*waves Dutchy flag of PWNing liberalism*

Given the information above, just how are Americans lazy?

The answer, of course, is: Not at all. And I'm with 1248B on this one; I've never seen a non-American make this accusation either. On the contrary, when I was living in the US, my American co-workers were constantly making jokes about how Americans were lazy.

Heh... if it is the case that it is (mostly) americans thinking this it would explain this thread...