NationStates Jolt Archive

Using only the Bible, argue Pro-Homosexually. I'd really like to see how this goes...

indeed :)

i could do it using greek myth which is really just another cultures bible

i could do it using greek myth which is really just another cultures bible
Christian Bible

bet no one can do it

Christian Bible

You mean no Satanic Bible? :cry:

Meanie!

Any reason why you want to do this ?

Any reason why you want to do this ?

laughs

and big :shock: :shock: :shock:

and to laugh at hypocritiscm (sp?)

"The soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul ... And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him,
and gave it to David, and his garments ... and his girdle." 18:1-4

Um... wasn't David highly respected in the Bible or something...?

well jesus did have a lot of guys around him all the time

Wasn't there a town of Sodom (sp?)? Didn't they commit a lot of homosexual acts? And didn't God smite them? Well, God seems to smite a lot of people since he chooses when people die (according to conservative Christians). So that must mean that he loves you when you die, since he kills all Christians. So basically, that means he loves homosexuals and homosexuality!

Ok, that was the best I could do. Grade? 8)

"The soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul ... And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him,
and gave it to David, and his garments ... and his girdle." 18:1-4

Um... wasn't David highly respected in the Bible or something...?

This made me laugh! Thank you. :D

"The soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul ... And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him,
and gave it to David, and his garments ... and his girdle." 18:1-4

Um... wasn't David highly respected in the Bible or something...?

God said that he's going to hell, and there's nothing he can do about it because of a few murders or something like that.

But before all that, he kicked ass in the bible.

Wasn't there a town of Sodom (sp?)? Didn't they commit a lot of homosexual acts? And didn't God smite them? Well, God seems to smite a lot of people since he chooses when people die (according to conservative Christians). So that must mean that he loves you when you die, since he kills all Christians. So basically, that means he loves homosexuals and homosexuality!

Ok, that was the best I could do. Grade? 8)

feh....C+ not bad! Although I think the previous guy did better

"The soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul ... And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him,
and gave it to David, and his garments ... and his girdle." 18:1-4

Um... wasn't David highly respected in the Bible or something...?

This made me laugh! Thank you. :D You're Welcome!

What's the point of this?

"The soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul ... And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him,
and gave it to David, and his garments ... and his girdle." 18:1-4

Um... wasn't David highly respected in the Bible or something...?

God said that he's going to hell, and there's nothing he can do about it because of a few murders or something like that.

But before all that, he kicked ass in the bible. Well damn... I tried... and I'm not even Christian.

"The soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul ... And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him,
and gave it to David, and his garments ... and his girdle." 18:1-4

Um... wasn't David highly respected in the Bible or something...?

this dosnt actually say that they fucked each other, they just swaped clothes

and david didnt got to hell he just couldnt build the temple because he was a warrior and god wanted a man of peace to build it

This is like "Argue the benefits of capitalist society using only the Communist Manifesto"

thats easy though

put the communist manifesto into action and youll see the benefits of capitalism

"The soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul ... And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him,
and gave it to David, and his garments ... and his girdle." 18:1-4

Um... wasn't David highly respected in the Bible or something...?

this dosnt actually say that they f--- each other, they just swaped clothes

and david didnt got to hell he just couldnt build the temple because he was a warrior and god wanted a man of peace to build it I read on... they do Fuck eachother.... heh.

"The soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul ... And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him,
and gave it to David, and his garments ... and his girdle." 18:1-4

Um... wasn't David highly respected in the Bible or something...?

this dosnt actually say that they f--- each other, they just swaped clothes

and david didnt got to hell he just couldnt build the temple because he was a warrior and god wanted a man of peace to build it I read on... they do f--- eachother.... heh.

apparently not

When David* had finished speaking to Saul, the soul of Jonathan was bound to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. 2Saul took him that day and would not let him return to his father’s house. 3Then Jonathan made a covenant with David, because he loved him as his own soul. 4Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that he was wearing, and gave it to David, and his armour, and even his sword and his bow and his belt.

http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=1+Samuel+18:1-4&vnum=yes&version=nrsvae

Wasn't there a town of Sodom (sp?)? Didn't they commit a lot of homosexual acts? And didn't God smite them? Well, God seems to smite a lot of people since he chooses when people die (according to conservative Christians). So that must mean that he loves you when you die, since he kills all Christians. So basically, that means he loves homosexuals and homosexuality!

Ok, that was the best I could do. Grade? 8)

feh....C+ not bad! Although I think the previous guy did better

Thanks. I am definately not a Bible scholar so I cannot bust out some passage from it. But I am just glad I passed!

If it's not from the skeptics annotated bible I refuse to believe it!


http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay/long.htm

Using only the Bible, argue Pro-Homosexually. I'd really like to see how this goes...

The Bible is bunk, and since we aren't dealing with anything else, nothing else proscribes homosexuality, therefore it's not wrong.

Whee! Everything is easier when I get to create the facts!

2 Nephi 2:27 "Wherefore, men are free according to the flesh; and all things are given them which are expedient unto man. And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil; for he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself." OK, not the bible but just as good! =)

Liberty and free agency are God-given rights, and crucial to the meaning of life. It's your choice whether or not you obey God's commandments.

Likewise, put religion into action and you'll see the benefits of athiesm.
i.e. the crusades, religous genocide, the kkk, shi-ite and sunni wars, blah blah blah blah.

Likewise, put religion into action and you'll see the benefits of athiesm.
i.e. the crusades, religous genocide, the kkk, shi-ite and sunni wars, blah blah blah blah.I'm glad I'm in a non-violent religion... I'd hate to be associated with those atrocities.

Yeah, I know there was that Mountain meadows thing, but that wasn't church related, merely utah-related, and the people involved happened to be mormon... so, yeah, doesn't compare to church-endorsed horrors like the above

The Bible has been translated, retranslated, mistranslated, politicised and corrupted for many centuries. References to homosexuality are in the context of the times, for exapmle ritualized orgies, and the practise of keeping young boys as sex toys. One particular verse in Romans refers to homosexuals yet this word is only a couple centuries old but somehow it's in there...amazing. The book of Leviticus itself refers to laws pertaining to tribal purity, not abominations against God, so people who consistelntly bring up Leviticus might have at least some credibility if they were stone age Jews. It's all a load of crap.

Funny how the references to homosexuality in the Bible amount to an insignificant portion of the body of the book yet, judging by the shrill borderline psychotic manner in which some Christians pipe on about gays/lesbians you would assume the religion revolves around an anti-gay ethic.

I could not possibly care any less what the bible says though infinitely less for what someone of that clique has to say.

all the scripture I need regarding homosexuality:

Question: What is your Church’s attitude toward homosexuality?

In the first place, we believe that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God. We believe that marriage may be eternal through exercise of the power of the everlasting priesthood in the house of the Lord.

People inquire about our position on those who consider themselves so-called gays and lesbians. My response is that we love them as sons and daughters of God. They may have certain inclinations which are powerful and which may be difficult to control. Most people have inclinations of one kind or another at various times. If they do not act upon these inclinations, then they can go forward as do all other members of the Church. If they violate the law of chastity and the moral standards of the Church, then they are subject to the discipline of the Church, just as others are.

We want to help these people, to strengthen them, to assist them with their problems and to help them with their difficulties. But we cannot stand idle if they indulge in immoral activity, if they try to uphold and defend and live in a so-called same-sex marriage situation. To permit such would be to make light of the very serious and sacred foundation of God-sanctioned marriage and its very purpose, the rearing of families.

you can argue anything from the bible. It depends how you interpret it. :wink:

I'd like to point out that God probably didn't destroy Sodom and Gommorah because the people there were homosexuals. It's not that they wanted to have sex with a guy, it was that they threatened to rape him, and rape is definitely bad. That's how I see it.

I'd like to point out that God probably didn't destroy Sodom and Gommorah because the people there were homosexuals. It's not that they wanted to have sex with a guy, it was that they threatened to rape him, and rape is definitely bad. That's how I see it.It's all of the above... rape, prostitution, fornication, homosexuality, all that... they couldn't even find 10 relatively righteous people among that wicked city. They doomed themselves.

dp

all the scripture I need regarding homosexuality:

Question: What is your Church’s attitude toward homosexuality?

In the first place, we believe that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God. We believe that marriage may be eternal through exercise of the power of the everlasting priesthood in the house of the Lord.

People inquire about our position on those who consider themselves so-called gays and lesbians. My response is that we love them as sons and daughters of God. They may have certain inclinations which are powerful and which may be difficult to control. Most people have inclinations of one kind or another at various times. If they do not act upon these inclinations, then they can go forward as do all other members of the Church. If they violate the law of chastity and the moral standards of the Church, then they are subject to the discipline of the Church, just as others are.

We want to help these people, to strengthen them, to assist them with their problems and to help them with their difficulties. But we cannot stand idle if they indulge in immoral activity, if they try to uphold and defend and live in a so-called same-sex marriage situation. To permit such would be to make light of the very serious and sacred foundation of God-sanctioned marriage and its very purpose, the rearing of families.


And now for an off topic post....Raysia !!! I believe you were supposed to prove that god liked homosexuals....And the rantings of a cult leader do not count as "Scripture", they are mearly the opinions of a man, and a confused man at that....

all the scripture I need regarding homosexuality:

Question: What is your Church’s attitude toward homosexuality?

In the first place, we believe that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God. We believe that marriage may be eternal through exercise of the power of the everlasting priesthood in the house of the Lord.

People inquire about our position on those who consider themselves so-called gays and lesbians. My response is that we love them as sons and daughters of God. They may have certain inclinations which are powerful and which may be difficult to control. Most people have inclinations of one kind or another at various times. If they do not act upon these inclinations, then they can go forward as do all other members of the Church. If they violate the law of chastity and the moral standards of the Church, then they are subject to the discipline of the Church, just as others are.

We want to help these people, to strengthen them, to assist them with their problems and to help them with their difficulties. But we cannot stand idle if they indulge in immoral activity, if they try to uphold and defend and live in a so-called same-sex marriage situation. To permit such would be to make light of the very serious and sacred foundation of God-sanctioned marriage and its very purpose, the rearing of families.


And now for an off topic post....Raysia !!! I believe you were supposed to prove that god liked homosexuals....And the rantings of a cult leader do not count as "Scripture", they are mearly the opinions of a man, and a confused man at that....Screw you, i answered the question already, then followed up with an anti-statement :P scroll up to see my "pro" statement.

Screw you.

Careful with the flames there, cowboy. You don't want to lose another nation...

Screw you.

Careful with the flames there, cowboy. You don't want to lose another nation...post your comments here: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=144868&highlight=

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28290

What the Bible says depends entirely on who interprets it.

Did you know:

The Bible is full of errors, from being copied, recopied and translated over and over again?

That homosexuality is not a sin in God's eyes ? but a twisted teaching of homophobic, misguided infallible men?

That all "so-called" references to homosexuality in the Bible actually refer to other terms ? not homosexuality at all?

That Sodom and Gomorrah were not destroyed because of homosexuality ... but because the people didn't feed the poor and needy?

That Jonathan and David are the most famous gay lovers in the Bible ? a biblical story of hot, passionate gay romance, kissing, jealousy and sex?

That Ruth and Naomi (daughter-in-law and mother-in-law) may be the most famous, committed lesbians in the Bible ? (Naomi being a possible pederast)?

That there are undeniably numerous other possible gays and lesbians throughout the Bible who have been "kept in the closet" by homophobic Christians throughout the centuries?

That Jesus Christ, "God Himself in the flesh," "lived an alternative lifestyle" and the apostle John "the disciple whom Jesus loved" literally could have been his gay male lover and, according to eight other biblical references, Jesus possibly "loved" many other men as well?

And, finally, that Jesus Christ wore a robe of purple to the cross (a gay adopted color), a possible gay and lesbian connotation ? right to His death?

Very well within the stipulations of the question:

for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ergo the love of Jesus is indiscriminate amongst those baptisied. Translate that to a modern context and Paul is basically writing "Hey it don't matter if you're black, white, gay, straight bla bla, there's a place for you all in the Kingdom of Heaven through Christ"

Although I have issues with the Catholic practise of baptism but that's a whole other seperate rant

And, finally, that Jesus Christ wore a robe of purple to the cross (a gay adopted color), a possible gay and lesbian connotation ? right to His death?

When was purple adopted as a flag for the Gay movement? Not in First Century Palestine!

And, finally, that Jesus Christ wore a robe of purple to the cross (a gay adopted color), a possible gay and lesbian connotation ? right to His death?

When was purple adopted as a flag for the Gay movement? Not in First Century Palestine!

I will explain the significance of purple in Ancient times...

Purple dye was obtained from little shelled marine life around the Medditeranean at Carthage (West, North Africa). Now, the process was so expensive, that only the wealthiest could afford to wear purple clothing.

Following the rise of Imperial Rome, the Emperor took control of the industry and only he and members of the Imperial household were permitted to have purple clothing. Roman Senators were permitted a purple stripe down one side of their togas.

As we all know...rare goods are coveted greatly by mankind.

However...

The gay movement has associated itself with pink and purple because of society's perceived genderisation of colours. Pink and purple are associated with females, and its attribution to homosexuals is in fact degrading - making the statement that gays (men in particular) are feminine.

To argue homosexuality using the bible I would not try and find a passage which praises it. Nor will I detail how the bible also promotes revenge, coveting another man's wife or that all men are sinful (thereby contradicting the ten commandments).

What I will argue is that modern Christianity preaches tolerance and faith in mankind. The Christian faith teaches us to do unto others as we would have done to ourselves. That we must accept one another for who we are - as equals. It may not say these very words in the bible, but Christianity is far more than a book which has been revised more times than I care to count.

Christianity is a moral code which places tolerance and care at the very summit of God's will for mankind.

When society rejects homosexuals, condemns them and hatred turns to violence it is in fact against the very faith which Western society seeks to uphold.

How can we call ourselves Christians, when hatred of homosexuality and neglect of others consume us?

In a Christian world, homosexuals would not fear for their lives nor suffer unequal rights to heterosexuals.

Society, it is clearly seen by this thread, has selective hearing. Many Christians hear what they want to hear from God and reject the differences.

If it is against God's will, then we would not be having this discussion.

What I will argue is that modern Christianity preaches tolerance and faith in mankind. The Christian faith teaches us to do unto others as we would have done to ourselves. That we must accept one another for who we are - as equals. It may not say these very words in the bible, but Christianity is far more than a book which has been revised more times than I care to count.

Christianity is a moral code which places tolerance and care at the very summit of God's will for mankind.

When society rejects homosexuals, condemns them and hatred turns to violence it is in fact against the very faith which Western society seeks to uphold.

How can we call ourselves Christians, when hatred of homosexuality and neglect of others consume us?

In a Christian world, homosexuals would not fear for their lives nor suffer unequal rights to heterosexuals.

Society, it is clearly seen by this thread, has selective hearing. Many Christians hear what they want to hear from God and reject the differences.

If it is against God's will, then we would not be having this discussion.

Very well said. If more Christians believed that then maybe I wouldn't have left the church.

Exactly, my point was applying a modern connotation of something to a ancient times. It's like saying Noah was gay because God showed him a rainbow!

Christianity is a moral code which places tolerance and care at the very summit of God's will for mankind.

Society, it is clearly seen by this thread, has selective hearing. Many Christians hear what they want to hear from God and reject the differences.

Aye. I think my Galatians quote sums that up.

do unto others as you would have them do unto you

the greatest of these is love

whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers that you do unto me

let whosoever is without sin cast the first stone

love thy neighbor as thyself

before you worry about the mote in your neighbors eye look to the beam in your own

it is better to marry than to burn

jesus commands us to love each other and to worry about our OWN sins not to spend our days deciding who has the worst sins and how they will suffer in the afterlife

id worry about the state of my own soul if i were you. that "least of your borthers" that jesus talked about is the gay guy you hate so much.

now y'all have me on a wicked rant.

judge not lest ye be judged

and maybe you pray this every night...
forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who tresspass against us

do you really want to be so harshly judged for your sins as you would judge some poor soul whose only sin in loving the wrong person?

we are talking about LOVE. fornication is fornication whether you have sex with a man, a woman or a goat.

do you really think that jesus would condemn someone because of LOVE??

maybe y'all should read the new testament over again.

phew i hope that takes care of THAT rant. i dont need that stuff running around in my head all afternoon.

Using the Bible to argue pro-homosexual, huh?

Well here it goes:
Although the Bible may disapprove of homosexuality, it's so contradictory, that would anybody truly put that much stock in it?

(sorry if i get some of the more religious people on NS mad at this)

Likewise, put religion into action and you'll see the benefits of athiesm.
i.e. the crusades, religous genocide, the kkk, shi-ite and sunni wars, blah blah blah blah.
yeah but, the question isn't about atheism
however, put christianity into action and you will see the benefits of homosexuality. According to the bible, you should have as many babies as possible- especially with your recently deceased brother's widow (so you can outnumber all the other groups of people). This quickly leads to overpopulation. The benfit to some homosexuality is that homosexuals don't contribute to it.
That's not saying in anyway that the bible approves of homosexuals, but that wasn't really the question, now was it?

If someone discovered that anti-homosexual attitudes began after biblical times, that would prove it. I don't know if that is true, but I suspect it could be.

Jesus never preached on Homosexuality therefore he must not have believed it to be evil.

Well, you honestly cannot use the bible to be Pro-homosexuality per say. Paul is very much against it, and there are more than one laws in Dueteronomy that are specifically against sodomy. There are also stories, like Sodom and Gomorrah as well as one in Samuel I think which involve the massive anger/persecution/displeasure God had with homosexuality. This is kind of like using the "I Have A Dream" speach to prove that black men are fine farm workers.

I can however prove that God doesn't hate homosexuals. The simple fact of the matter is that God loves everyone. There are really no exceptions, there is no one who eludes it. There is also no one who is more loved than another. Our hearts are all equal to God, it is our acts that make us able to be judged. I don't care if you make dirty jokes, are a homosexual, steal things, murder or are freaking Hitler, God loves you.

So, God isn't against homosexuals. God is not for homosexuals. What He wants is us to seek Him. Am I gay? No. Does it still bug me inside? Yeah, it does. But, we must keep in mind that God loves us all, and that we should continually move to do as he asks of us.

But, as the point all before me have made who are good scholars, it's all up to you and your interpretation. You will see what you seek to find, it is only when you wish to find nothing that you will find it all.

Wasn't there a town of Sodom (sp?)? Didn't they commit a lot of homosexual acts? And didn't God smite them? Well, God seems to smite a lot of people since he chooses when people die (according to conservative Christians). So that must mean that he loves you when you die, since he kills all Christians. So basically, that means he loves homosexuals and homosexuality!

Ok, that was the best I could do. Grade? 8)

iirc correctly the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomaragh (sp?) "sinned greatly in the eyes of the Lord," nowhere does it say that they were gay or lesbian or bi. It was Christian moralists who decided to put words in the mouth of our Lord and decided that "sinned greatly" meant having a penchant for homosexuality.

Just to be obnoxious:

It is not true that homosexuality is accebtable. (Assumption for reductio)
God is always merciful. (e.g. Ps 100:5, Psa 118:1)
There are instances where God is not merciful. (e.g. Jer 13:14, Eze 7:4)
Therefore homosexuality is acceptable.


In symbolic logic:

1 | ~H
2 | (Ax)(Ix -> Mx) For any instance x, God is merciful in that instance
3 | (Ex)(Ix & ~Mx) There exists an instance x where God is not merciful
4 | Ia & ~Ma (EE, 3)
5 | Ia -> Ma (UE, 2)
6 | Ia (&E, 4)
7 | ~Ma (&E, 4)
8 | Ma (CE, 5, 6)
- | x
9 H (~E, 1-8 )

[Damn smilies]